Tampa, Too: Ranking the Top Ten Defenses of 2026
STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.
1 hr 30 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jun 24, 2026
Published
Wed, June 24, 2026
23
Player insights
23
Players mentioned
Topics
Braden FiskeCooper DeJeanD.J. JonesDomonique OrangeDrake ThomasErnest JonesJalen CarterJalyn PhillipsJaylen WatsonJohn Franklin-MyersJonathan CooperJonathan GreenardKamari LassiterKobie Turner
Player analysis
Player insights
Braden Fiske
PositiveRole0:20
Braden Fisk is positioned to benefit from Miles Garrett's presence creating opportunities for other Rams pass rushers.
Insight pageCooper DeJean
PositiveRole0:30
DeJean is a versatile defensive back who can play multiple positions including corner, slot, safety, and outside, functioning as Vic Fangio's 'flex seal' for secondary problems.
Insight pageD.J. Jones
PositiveProjection0:38
Jones is one of the more unsung nose tackles in the league and was one of the most underrated players when he was in San Francisco.
Insight pageDomonique Orange
PositiveProjection0:44
Orange compliments Kayla Banks really well against the run for the Vikings.
Insight pageDrake Thomas
PositiveRole0:16
Drake Thomas benefits from Byron Murphy II eating double teams, allowing him to get free runs at the running back.
Insight pageErnest Jones
PositiveRole0:16
Ernest Jones benefits from Seattle's defensive line eating double teams, allowing him to get free runs at the running back and flow faster to the football.
Insight pageJalen Carter
NegativeProjection0:26
Carter had a very weird year marked by 'spit gate' early in the season and never fully became the player expected, though he remains in the top five defense consideration due to other factors.
Insight pageJalyn Phillips
PositiveProjection0:29
Phillips was sixth in pressure rate last season and is a complete player good in both run defense and as a pressure getter, fitting the profile Fangio prioritizes.
Insight pageJaylen Watson
PositiveRole0:23
Watson is expected to be part of the Rams' best defensive lineup and will be included in their defensive schemes going forward.
Insight pageJohn Franklin-Myers
PositiveRole0:39
Franklin-Myers was a cleanup guy for Denver's run defense when the edges (Benito and Cooper) got upfield, and his departure creates a question about who steps into that role.
Insight pageJonathan Cooper
NegativeInjury0:27
Cooper is dealing with a litany of issues including a domestic violence arrest and charge, plus a violation of a stay-away order, creating uncertainty around his availability.
Insight pageJonathan Greenard
PositiveProjection0:29
Grenard was seventh in pressure rate and is a really good player who fits the same profile as Jalen Phillips, though he's 29 years old and had an injury last year.
Insight pageKamari Lassiter
PositiveRole0:06
Kamari Lassiter is described as the analyst's favorite player in the league, noted for being first among all NFL corners in percentage of time in tight coverage at the snap and continuing to improve as a cover corner while being an elite tackler.
Insight pageKobie Turner
PositiveRole0:20
Kobe Turner is positioned to benefit from Miles Garrett's presence creating opportunities for other Rams pass rushers through stunting and looping.
Insight pageLarry Williams
PositiveRole0:14
Larry Williams is described as awesome and was the fourth most double-teamed player in football last year for Seattle.
Insight pageLeonard Williams
PositiveRole0:15
Leonard Williams is described as eating double teams for Seattle and being a second-tier great defensive lineman, comparable to elite pass rushers.
Insight pageMalcolm Roach
PositiveRole0:39
Roach was more of a rotational pass rush guy and may need to step up into the cleanup role vacated by John Franklin-Myers.
Insight pageMyles Garrett
PositiveRole0:20
Miles Garrett had 31 quick pressures last year and is double-teamed so much that he requires at least two pairs of eyes and two sets of hands on him, creating opportunities for other Rams pass rushers.
Insight pageQuinyon Mitchell
PositiveProjection0:32
Mitchell is an elite cornerback with a negative 0.16 EPA per target (second in the NFL) despite zero interceptions, 1.8 yards after catch per reception (first in NFL), and a 42% tight window rate (first, vs 25% NFL average).
Insight pageReed Blankenship
PositiveRole0:07
Reed Blankenship is praised as an extremely heady player and great communicator who pairs well with Kalen Bullock, providing opportunistic playmaking in Houston's secondary.
Insight pageRiley Moss
PositiveProjection0:35
Moss gets unfairly maligned and has actually improved as a player; he was thrown at the most in the NFL but has grown despite being opposite Pat Surtain II, the best corner in football.
Insight pageTrent McDuffie
PositiveRole0:22
McDuffie should be deployed as a matchup player rotating between outside and inside coverage rather than exclusively on the outside, allowing the Rams to unlock his full potential and keep him involved in nickel and dime packages.
Insight pageZach Allen
PositiveProjection0:38
Allen is an unsung hero on the Broncos defense with 47 quarterback hits last year, leading the NFL, and has modeled his game after JJ Watt with impressive arm-over-the-swim moves.
Insight pageFull transcript
Episode Transcript
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0:26From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. To the Mina Kimes Show featuring Lenny, the only NFL podcast.
0:31One of the hosts pronounces it Kamari Lassiter. That's Lenny, Mina Kimes.
0:35We're going to talk about Kamari Lassiter today because I am joined by JP Acosta to do the Top Ten Defenses of 2026.
0:43JP, it's been a while since you've been on the show.
0:47For the folks who don't know, JP is the co-host of the Pushing the Pile podcast over at CBS Sports.
0:53I can't remember the last time you were on.
0:56It's been a minute. So, I'm excited to have you back.
1:00When you asked me to be on for this show, I was super excited because this is exactly what I like to talk about.
1:08We're not talking about, like, any of the offense.
1:11We're not talking about all the super-crazy offense schemes stuff.
1:14We're getting our hands in the dirt here. We're talking about defenses.
1:18Offenses. So, this was hard. Offenses. It was. Very different experiences from Top Ten Offenses, which if you're listening to this and
1:25you missed it, I did Top Ten Offenses last week with Nate Tice.
1:29And we had a few differences. Probably, I didn't count, but I think about seven of the ten or maybe eight of the ten were the same.
1:38But offenses, my experience was I had like 14 or 15 and I had trouble narrowing it down to ten.
1:45Whereas defenses, and I want to hear how it was for you, I thought there was a very clear Top Five or Six.
1:52And then after that, like, I really, it's not that I think they're all bad.
1:57It's just there's so many unknowns and I was really like going back and forth a million times on those final three to four spots.
2:05I definitely agree. I think outside of the Top Five that we're going to get into, I think once you get past
2:13those teams, there are a lot of variables. There's a lot of, you know, what their teams bring in new coordinators, new
2:20pieces on the defensive side of the ball. But I think with all of them, there's like potential for them to be
2:27good either this year or maybe like in a few years down the line.
2:32There are some honorable mentions I was like, I want to believe, but I'm going to give it a couple more years.
2:39There's one, I bet we have the same. There's one where I was like, I was so tempted to put them in the Top Ten.
2:47And I was like, I feel like I need another year.
2:51So just to revisit last year's Top Ten defenses.
2:54Oh, and folks, I got some comments saying you should talk about who you picked last year.
2:59So I'm going to tell you for defenses, I didn't do that last week.
3:04So the top to actual Top Ten defenses last year and both in DVO, which is FDN fantasy's stat that if you
3:11listen to this pod, you know, DVO is but accounts for strength of schedule and things like that.
3:17Seattle, Houston, Minnesota, the Rams, which might surprise people.
3:20And I'm sure we'll get into them today and talk a little bit about what happened last year.
3:26I think that's DVO way really likes the Rams because of the opponents, Denver, Jacksonville, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Detroit, and the Chargers just outside where the Steelers, Falcons, Saints.
3:35That's another surprising one, I think. So I think that's a little bit of a, you know, reassortment or re ranking.
3:42But the Patriots snuck in at the end there.
3:45Casey was actually 12th in that mark and then success rate, which I also checked again, very similar teams.
3:51Actually, I think the same Top Ten as DVO way just in different order with the Chiefs, the Panthers and the Jags outside.
3:58So my actual predictions. All right. So this is what I predicted in 2025.
4:03I think Dominique was on the pod. Denver. Fine.
4:06Houston. Fine. The Ravens who were devastated by injuries.
4:09This was, of course, before the Madiweke injury and there was some other injuries, which we might talk about later.
4:16Vikings. Yes. The Seahawks. The Lions also devastated by injuries.
4:19I had the Steelers who just missed it. The Packers, which I was like, I didn't want to put them in, but
4:26they had just they had been good the year before.
4:29And then the Parsons injury obviously kind of derailed them.
4:33And then my big L. So all of those teams, I think, are either correct or defensible.
4:38The big L I took was on the Giants.
4:41I just was so tantalized by that pass rush.
4:44And turns out stopping the run matters, JP. I mean, all those teams, they have a really good chance at not only
4:51like they were pretty good, except for the Giants.
4:54Like the Giants were a very unique team in itself for like, they're so cool, like you said, with pass rush.
5:01But all of their edge defenders are all very similar in how they win and what they do.
5:07So I think all of them, like all these teams, like have so many cool qualities about them that I think we're
5:14going to talk about them year over year. Yeah, definitely.
5:18Um, yeah, and it's a giant. It's so funny because the Giants still rank.
5:22If you looked at, because I was looking at a lot of stats last year to kind of think about this year's
5:29rankings and the Giants in pass rush were like top in everything.
5:33And it just didn't matter. And it's, it's a good lesson in defense and how, you know, the expression, you gotta stop
5:40the run and have some fun is actually quite true, especially when you're giving up over five yards a clip on first down.
5:48So, uh, the Giants clearly saw that, uh, obviously drafting, uh, linebacker and signing Tremaine Edmonds, but they are not in my top 10.
5:56So JP, I go one through 10. I start at the top.
6:00Um, I, like you said, there's a pretty clear top five.
6:03I feel, I think we're going to have a lot of the same teams, maybe not in the same order though.
6:10Uh, I went for my number one team and you can tell me if you had them one or where you did the Houston Texans.
6:19I also have them at number one. It is.
6:21It's just so cool watching them play because you would think by watching their fronts and some of their structures, they're sort
6:29of the antithesis of what a modern defense should be when it comes to moving people along the line of scrimmage, changing your fronts without changing your personnel.
6:38And the Texans don't do that. They just line up and they kick your butt every single time.
6:44And it's so cool to watch because they lean so heavily on their force multipliers who are Daniil Hunter, Will Anderson Jr.
6:51And then in the back end, Kamari Lasser and Derek Stingley Jr.
6:55If you lean on, if they lean on those guys to generate all of the, just changing the math, they're such an overwhelming force on defense.
7:03They also could even be better, which you never want to say every team that was, you know, first and first or
7:11second in just about every metric along with Seattle, who I'm sure we'll talk about shortly.
7:16Um, but they didn't lose guys. And that was kind of the differentiator for me.
7:21They didn't lose anyone where I thought, like, see, let's see how that shakes out.
7:26In fact, I think they gained a couple of players who could be impactful.
7:30Um, I really love the read Blankenship signing. You know, it was, that was one of the positions that was a little
7:38bit of a revolving door for them at safety.
7:41I think him playing next to Kalen Bullock is a great combination.
7:44Um, Blankenship, you know, he's not one of the elite safeties in the league, but he's an extremely, uh, heady player.
7:51He's a great communicator. Uh, I think, you know, he's, um, an opportunistic playmaker as well.
7:57And again, he just pairs well with everyone else in the secondary.
8:01And then they drafted Katie McDonald, which was a pick that I loved.
8:05And I thought it was like, oh my God, the rich get richer.
8:09Right? Because this is all, this is a team that was already good against the run.
8:14Great against the run again, every, like, I was like, whoa, how bad was their short yardage run defense?
8:21It was obviously it was great. The only thing that jumped out to me when I was trying to find like run
8:28defense metrics where they could get better is there were in their base defense.
8:32They were 18th in success rate. Um, and I think that's when we're going to see the most out of Katie McDonald.
8:40But yeah, like it, it, it really like looking at this depth charge AP, like where is the hole?
8:46Like, what are you worried about? Is there any, you know, like you're really picking nets if you're trying to find issues with this defense.
8:54Cause they're so talented at all three levels. I spent so long trying to find somewhere where they could potentially be like a pitfall for this defense.
9:03Maybe their linebacker group. I mean, outside of Aziz Alshair, you start to worry.
9:07Yeah. If Alshair gets hurt, then you really start to worry about their depth there, but they insulate their linebackers so well.
9:15And now that you have re blank and ship, you have somebody who can kind of be the cleanup guy.
9:21If they make any mistakes at that second level and then upfront by adding Katie McDonald, I want to shout out Tommy
9:28Togiai who has been incredible for them against the run.
9:32And I think having those guys up front and having your force multipliers and Daniel Hunter and Will Anderson Jr.
9:38It makes the linebackers job so much easier because you're insulated in every area and you allow for Aziz Alshair and Toto to play so much faster.
9:47Totally. Yeah, that's the thing that right there. Like, you know, if I was dropping read blank and ship onto a defense
9:54where there was issues in the secondary, I might feel a little bit.
9:59I think he's a good player, but I think you saw in Philadelphia when he was also part of an elite secondary.
10:06He's great as that final guy and he gets to be the final guy here.
10:11Daniel Hunter shows no signs of slowing down. Will Anderson Jr.
10:14is probably one of the four or five. If you're drafting a team in the NFL right now from scratch, he's up there.
10:22Kamari Lassiter is like my favorite player in the league.
10:25I've got a Lassiter stat that I love because I was looking at some corner stats in next-gen stats has like different, you know, like coverage stats.
10:34And you got to sometimes you got to take these with a grain of salt because it can be really effective by how often they're targeted and whatnot.
10:43You got to really like try to examine the context around it.
10:47But they have a stat that I think they added fairly recently, which was the percentage of time a DB is in tight coverage at the snap.
10:56And again, this can be influenced by the style of coverage that teams play, right?
11:01Like if you're on a team that plays a ton of off.
11:05But Kamari was first out of every corner in the NFL in terms of the percentage of time when he was in coverage that it was tight coverage.
11:14He is an elite tackler. We know that, but I think he's really continued to improve as a cover corner as well.
11:21And the fact that he gets to play opposite Stingley Jr.
11:25is frankly insane. So, yeah, I think like we said, the linebacker is the only thing where I'm like, if, if a
11:32Shire goes down, you then you're it's a little bit of weakness.
11:36They added EJ speeds hurt. Mark, Tim, who they added, which is kind of an interesting watch him be good there.
11:43Right. Who's the freakish backer from New England? I will say I did consider.
11:48Did you consider? Okay. So I considered Seattle for this spot.
11:51Did you consider them? And if so, what was the well, I guess I'll jump in.
11:56I had Seattle's my number two is Seattle. You're number two.
12:00Yeah, that was my number two. So what? Before we get to the Seahawks in depth, what was kind of the differentiating factor for you?
12:08I think I'm a little worried about the Seahawks depth at edge, especially losing my Faye.
12:13You re re able to resign Derek Hall, but you have a chin to woes.
12:18Sue's getting up there and age. Demarcus Lawrence getting up there and age and Derek calls sort of your three rotation guys on the edge.
12:27And one of the things that stood out about Seattle last year was.
12:31They had waves of guys just rotating in. They were able to generate pass rush.
12:36They're able to win with so many guys, which I think is one of the coolest parts about Seattle's defense.
12:42We'll get into in depth. But I just think that because they don't have the same amount of overwhelming force as the
12:50two edges for Houston, that sort of is the differentiator there.
12:53But I love watching them play for like two separate reasons where the Texans are sort of the antithesis of modern football.
13:00The Seahawks are what a modern defense like should look like.
13:04Yes, they're the Seahawks are the blueprint right now.
13:07Um, not an easy blueprint to write play because, uh, you it's interesting because I imagine we'll talk about the Viking.
13:14I mean, I I'm going to talk about the Vikings.
13:17I imagine you're, you know, um, they're both pretty schemed up right.
13:21And, uh, compared to the Texans, but they do it in such a different fashion.
13:26Um, it's like right after the Super Bowl and NFL live, we talked about it around the draft, how, what can folks
13:33try to do to emulate Seattle's defense? But the more time you look at the depth chart, you realize how difficult it
13:40is to acquire this combination of talent and how I think just, um, deliberate, how intentional they have been in putting this
13:48group together for what Mike McDonald wants to accomplish, which is to, you know, oversimplify it.
13:53Mike McDonald wants to get pressure with four sometimes through, you know, deception.
13:57And he wants to defend the run with light boxes out of a split safety structure playing big nickel or nickel, right?
14:04That's the 3000 foot view to do that. You need tackle corners.
14:08You can tackle. You need a physical nickel. You need edges who can really set an edge so you can count on them.
14:16Um, and you need really smart, selfless pass rushers.
14:19I would argue you also need really strong defensive tackles, which is probably the strength of that defensive line.
14:25It is the strength of the defensive line. Larry Williams is awesome.
14:29He, by the way, was the fourth most double team player in football last year.
14:34But I really think the season that Byron Murphy, the second had got slept on.
14:39He was so good last year. Um, so I do have a little bit of, cause I share your concern about the
14:46edge depth a little bit with Moffay leaving and like some of the older, they did sign, you know, like Fowler Jr.
14:53He's watch him be good, but you know, there's no, they don't have like a, a superstar.
14:59And that's again, that's the design of the group.
15:02But, um, you know, they, they lost that. They also, uh, lost Kobe Bryant at safety.
15:07Tai Okada's played a lot for them already. And then they lost three quillen, who obviously has a bit of a mixed
15:14reputation amongst Seahawks fans, but he's a really good corner and they paid Josh job.
15:19Uh, I've discounted price. I thought he was pretty sick.
15:22He was super solid last year, but for me, that was the biggest difference.
15:27It's like, okay, we've got three players, three starters walking out the door.
15:31And I understand, you know, it's not Moffay was part of rotation.
15:35That's not nothing. So we'll see, you know, like they got to figure it out.
15:40We'll see. But I think the biggest thing for the Seahawks is they are able, like you said, to do what they
15:47did, stopping the run against, uh, with light boxes, because you not only have Leonard Williams and Byron Murphy the second, you
15:55also have Jaron Reed who can rotate it. Yeah.
15:57You have guys like the Marcus Lawrence who was incredible coming over from Dallas and some of the coolest things that he did was he would reduce inside.
16:07He would go from being outside of the tackle to reducing him inside.
16:11That way you could walk Nick Eman Worry down on the last scrimmage.
16:15You can walk Ernest Jones down to the line of scrimmage.
16:19You can play all of these different fronts without actually losing your coverage bodies.
16:23And that way you just open up everything else on the defensive side of the ball.
16:29In order to do that, you have to have selfless play from your defensive line.
16:34And that is an incredibly talented group, but they are so selfless.
16:38Like you said, Leonard Williams eating double teams, Byron Murphy eating double teams.
16:42The reason why I think Byron Murphy season went so underrated is because he was taking on so many doubles and it
16:49allowed for guys like Drake Thomas and Ernest Jones to get free runs at the running back.
16:55You were able to help the defense, the second level of defense flow faster to the football because you have a defensive
17:02tackle that not only eats double teams, but can make plays off of those.
17:06So if you really want to like defend the run out of light boxes, everybody says they want to defend the run out of light boxes.
17:15You need some defensive tackles that can actually go and do that.
17:19And I think we're starting to sort of come back around onto that, onto that point as we see like NFL, like meta sort of changing.
17:27Yeah. The Seahawks are kind of like the case study for, and Leonard Williams and Murphy, I would argue are better than
17:35be, they're kind of like second tier great. Defensive lineman like they're, you know, they're not, um, Jeffrey Simmons and Quinton, whatever Quinton.
17:42Well, I think Leonard Williams is pretty close, but I'm just saying like they're, it's almost like when you look at this
17:49defensive group as a whole, it is kind of like, would you rather have one superstar pass rusher or a bunch of
17:57really good, really selfless, really smart defensive linemen. And that kind of cuts to what I was saying about the build, right?
18:04Like this is the, they've been very strategic about putting this team together.
18:08And I think the other thing I'll say about to wrap up Seattle is this, as long as Mike McDonald's, the coach,
18:15I'm probably gonna always have them in the top five.
18:19I just feel like we've seen enough. Like is, you know, like I've seen enough man.
18:24He's done it twice now. He did it in Baltimore too, where he went from, he completely transformed that defense.
18:30He did it again. He has shown such an ability to defeat the current offensive meta.
18:36San Francisco was the second best offense in football last year and he made them look pedestrian.
18:41I know there's some injuries and then maybe, you know, but I'm just saying like he's, he's kind of it right now.
18:48So yeah, it's, I, I will always, I think have them extremely high with Mike McDonald as the coach.
18:55Uh, so number three, I feel like we're gonna have the same team.
18:59Number three, I have the Rams. Okay. All right.
19:02I promise this is gonna, we're gonna start deviating once we get past this top five, but it's just right now.
19:09It's a very clear top five. Uh, there is absolutely a case for the Rams being number one right now.
19:15I just felt like Houston, Seattle have proven it.
19:18Like we still have to, you know what I mean?
19:22Like you can't just on paper, but this could, they could very easily be the best defense in the NFL.
19:28Yeah, they absolutely. If we look back at this time next year and the Rams are the best defense in the NFL,
19:35it wouldn't surprise me when I wrote about the Michael, not Michael Parsons, the miles Garrett trade, I actually compared it to
19:43green Bay signing Michael Parsons last year, where you're taking a good defense and the Rams defense last year was good.
19:49And I think Chris Shula did a lot of cool stuff with the biggest thing.
19:54Biggest thing was insulating his linebackers to take them away from being middle of the field pole runners.
20:00But the biggest issue for them was they couldn't get quick pressures.
20:04They couldn't get teams off the field. Now you have a guy who can get quick pressures better than almost anyone in the NFL.
20:12He had 31 quick, quick pressures last year and he's double teamed so much.
20:17So you have to have at least two pairs of eyes on him, two sets of hands on miles Garrett.
20:23And with as much stunting and looping as they do, you're going to create other opportunities for guys like Kobe Turner for,
20:30for Braden Fisk for guys coming on coming onto that defensive line and just rotating in and then adding McDuffie and Jalen Watson.
20:38I think that gives them a little bit more of a physical presence on the outside.
20:43It sort of seems to me like they want teams to get the ball out quick.
20:48They want to start, they want to start forcing the issue.
20:52And I think it's really similar to how Michael Parsons changed the Packers defense last year.
20:57Isn't that funny? Cause they, when they traded for McDuffie and added Watson, I'm not sure if I look back at the
21:05rumors and when things are reported, they knew that Garrett was, it was going to happen.
21:10I definitely don't think they knew for sure. I don't know how much, you know, it was like even something being discussed,
21:17but those corners pair quick pair so well with a passenger who gets quick pressure because they're incredible tacklers.
21:23Right. And I mentioned this after the trade, we have, we're on the same page here.
21:28The Browns last year faced the fourth most quick game league wide.
21:32I wonder why the Rams face ranked 21st. Uh, so the defense was good at getting pressure, but it was not like you said, super fast.
21:41Uh, and that's about to change. The other thing that happened last year was in the second half, the defense kind of fell apart in certain ways.
21:50In the first half of the 2025 season, the Rams defense was first in opponent QBR in the second half through the playoffs.
21:57They were 30th. Uh, they gave up the most yards after catch in the NFL in that timeframe and they gave up the most receiving touchdowns.
22:06They gave up, they tied with Chicago for the most completions over 15 yards.
22:10It was really all past defense actually, because when I looked up the run defense, that wasn't an issue.
22:17So, uh, clearly they recognized what was a glaring weakness that emerged over the course of the second half of the season
22:24and through enormous amount of resources at it. I think this defensive line is going to be a nightmare.
22:30I think the linebacker group is still just okay.
22:33Uh, and the quarterback group on paper should be dramatically better, but let me ask you a question that I did.
22:40Uh, you know, when, when they traded for McDuffie, which at the time seemed like a huge trade and the character he made, it seemed kind of small.
22:49Um, do you think him playing outside is the best use of his talents?
22:54I think leaving him as an exclusive outside corner, isn't the best use of his talent.
22:59I think for him and for the Rams, like having him be sort of a matchup player, having him rotate outside and
23:06inside will be able to unlock the best things that you can do with that defense.
23:11You want to get your best 11 on the field and that's going to include McDuffie.
23:17That's going to include Jalen Watson. It's probably going to include another corner that they have on the, on the roster.
23:24If they're not super comfortable with the manual fours being out there, like I think you can have a McDuffie play on
23:31the outside, but if you really want to get into those nickel and dime packages, I think they're really going to want
23:38to go to, I think having McDuffie as sort of the nickel to be sort of like, keep him always involved in the process.
23:46You can't, you can't, you can't scheme away from Trent McDuffie if you have him at nickel.
23:51So I think having him be a matchup player will probably be the best thing, but I wouldn't leave him exclusively on the outside.
23:59A team that played, if not the most close to it, the most dime in the NFL.
24:05Um, and then yeah, like Lake can be the third safety there.
24:09Um, yeah, I think the matchup point is really important, right?
24:12Like if JSN is playing in the slot, you probably want McDuffie on the inside.
24:17Um, it's an enormous opportunity for Chris Shula, the defense coordinator you talked about to, you know, who's gotten some head coach, pretty serious head coach looks.
24:26He's been given like the most premium set of ingredients.
24:30A chef could ask for now. I'll be interested in seeing if he uses any creativity with how he deploys Garrett too.
24:37Right? Like we've seen that a little bit in Cleveland who could forget the Garrett Eurostep over the center.
24:43Right. But, but, um, it, it, it's insane. Like the opportunities here I'll be interested in seeing like, yeah, like as the
24:50year goes on, um, what sort of changes this means?
24:53Do they play a little bit more man coverage?
24:56Do they, um, like you said, is it more, do they stick with the dime word?
25:02How do they use McDuffie? I think these are questions that Chris Shula should be able to find answers to.
25:08Uh, and very well could be the best defense in the NFL.
25:12I just felt like we got to give it to Houston and Seattle because they've shown us already.
25:18This is still, we give it like maybe like half the season when we, when we get to midway point and the
25:25Rams are probably going to be very good on defense.
25:29We'll probably look back and like, yeah, we've, we figured they'd be in the number one spot around this time.
25:35Four and five. I suspect we're going to have the same two teams.
25:39I probably should have gone. Well, whatever it's fine.
25:42Uh, cause I think six through 10, I promise you guys we're going to have different teams.
25:48Once we get to six through 10, it is just such a clear top five.
25:53I'm sorry. Um, all right, let's see if we have any difference.
25:57I went Philadelphia at four. I went Denver. Okay, great.
26:00Yay. Finally some difference. I went Denver at five.
26:03Did you go Philly at five? Philly at five.
26:06Cool. All right. Great. Um, let's talk about why.
26:09Why, why did you have Denver over Philadelphia? I think I'm a little worried about the Eagles pass rush consistency.
26:15And I think they also understood that they were worried about their pass rush by trading for Jonathan Grenard because their leader
26:23in pressure rate as a pass rusher last season was Jalen Phillips, who they acquired a mid season trade.
26:29Now with the Panthers, I think they need a big Jalen Carter year.
26:33I think it was a very, very weird year for Carter overall, starting with spit gate in the beginning of the season
26:40and just never really fully being the player that we thought he was going into the season.
26:46But I still have them top five because of one Vic Fangio and to their ability to dictate to teams how they,
26:53how they can play and how they want you to play.
26:57They want you to be a team offensively. They want you to eat your vegetables.
27:02They want you to take those four or those three yard check downs and they're going to come up and tackle.
27:09And they can do that because they have really good tacklers at the second and third level.
27:14You have Cooper Dejean, Quinjon Mitchell quickly becoming one of the better corners in the NFL.
27:19Zach Bond, Jahad Campbell, I think are super cool, such a cool dynamic at linebacker.
27:24I just, the difference between Denver and Philly is again, it's just the pass rush.
27:29Yeah. Yeah. I, they're really close. And I think for me with Denver, I was looking at this first of all, there's
27:37some uncertainty around Jonathan Cooper, who is dealing with like a litany of issues.
27:41I mean, he was, um, I don't think I've mentioned this on the podcast this off season.
27:47He was arrested and booked on a charge of domestic violence.
27:50And then he violated like a make sure I have this correctly, like a stay away.
27:56Uh, so I don't know what's going to happen there.
27:59Uh, they have Kay Robinson. Quay is it K or Quay?
28:02I forgot how he's from the Bama pass for sure.
28:06Is it Q? I can't remember. I, um, who was in really interesting player.
28:10Um, didn't get a lot of run because he was playing mine.
28:14Will Anderson in Dallas junior, Dallas Turner, but, uh, physical, like super, super talented athlete.
28:19Um, you know, Nick Benito is awesome. The defensive tackles are awesome.
28:23Um, I think linebackers still a little bit of a question mark.
28:27Um, I think it has been fine. Stern has been fine, but it's obviously not their strength and they didn't, this was a pretty offensive focused off season.
28:36Um, so I was kind of just looking at the, I think.
28:40Uh, Denver's got better, better pass rush. Philadelphia has got a better back seven.
28:45So it's kind of how these things shake out.
28:48They both have brilliant defensive coordinators. Um, just to go to Philly for a second though, it is funny that like, I
28:55don't know if there was a more, the Eagles pivoting to Jonathan Grenard after failing to retain Jalen Phillips and ultimately paying Grenard less than Phillips.
29:03It really is like your friend who just dates all girls who look the same.
29:08Like, like, like the second he missed out on Phillips.
29:12I was like, step right up, John. The good art.
29:15Cause they're really similar play. Like, you know, and there's such big Fangio edges, which is to say, um, they're very complete.
29:22They're both good in run defense. They both are more pressure getters that well, Grenard's had some pretty good sack years, but,
29:29um, I think like they, they fit the same profile that Fangio clearly likes and prioritizes and allows the defense to play with its trademark light box structure.
29:39Um, I think he's a really good player. Like I think Phillips, you know, Phillips is a little bit younger.
29:45Grenard's like 29 and Gnard also had an injury last year too.
29:49But I like, I actually Phillips was sixth in pressure rate.
29:53Grenard was seventh. Like, you know, as far as like constellation prizes goes, it's pretty perfect for Philadelphia.
29:59And good Lord, this group of corners, man. I mean, we talked about Rick Willen on the NFC X vectors pod, but
30:06like, it's, this is a terrifying group of corners.
30:09I mean, this is, uh, Mitchell, Jean and Wollin.
30:12This is the best group of corners in football, right?
30:15Like I'm not missing anyone obvious. I mean, if you really, you could argue, you could argue the Texans, you could argue the Texans.
30:23Yeah, I guess. Latter, Stingley and Jalen Petrie. Yeah.
30:26But if we're talking pure coverage, I don't know if there's a better group just because of the hats that Cooper DeGene can wear in coverage.
30:34I, while I think that Jalen Petrie, if we're just comparing players one for one, I think Petrie is a monster as
30:42a run defender and a menace as a run defender.
30:45I think DeGene offers similar levels of physicality defending the run while you could also have him match up on guys in
30:52the slot and you can have him play on the outside if you wanted to.
30:57And he just wears so many different hats. It feels like he's like Vic Fangio's version of like flex seal where if
31:04like there's a problem in the secondary, just put Cooper DeGene there.
31:08And they're going to play safety by the way, when they play base, I saw that, which is not always what they,
31:15you know, they, they've, I saw somewhere in like one of the off season notes from one of the Eagles reporters that
31:23that's Vic Fangio's made it pretty clear that that's his intention with DeGene.
31:27Which I think is, yeah, they don't play a lot of base, but I find it fascinating because DeGene was a corner
31:34at Iowa, but their safety depth also isn't super great right now.
31:38Andrew Kuba coming off an injury. That's again, like the flex seal Cooper DeGene, like get yelling out there, play safety.
31:45We'll see what happens, but they don't play base a lot.
31:48They're going to live in nickel. And I think they can do that again because they have a sacrificial group up front
31:56where you can play like Zach Bond and Jahad Campbell, both walk down on the edges and create five and six man fronts pretty easily from that.
32:05And it just allows you to answer so many different problems that you see with modern NFL offenses.
32:10Quinnia Mitchell is so freaking good at football, a negative 0.16 EPA per target, which was second, despite having zero interceptions.
32:17That's so insane. Quinnia Mitchell is a cornerback to rank highly super high in that remark.
32:23Usually you have to because the interception is worth so much negative expected points is added.
32:28The fact that he finished that high, despite not getting his hands or he got his hands on probably a lot of passes defense.
32:36He just didn't come down with it, which is the one area, you know, you want to see from him.
32:42He also, this is one of my favorite stats of his.
32:46He allowed 1.8 yards after catch per reception, which was first amongst every quarterback in football.
32:51He had a 42% tight window rate, which is first again, the NFL average is 25%.
32:56The dude is like glue. I mean, he is so, so complete as a corner.
33:01He just needs to get some interceptions this year.
33:04I think the coolest thing about having Quinnia Mitchell.
33:07And I think the coolest thing about what Vic Fangio did this season compared to last season is they played more man coverage this year.
33:15They are willing to leave Quinnia Mitchell on an Island and just let him go to work.
33:21And I think that aggression is something that Vic Fangio teams aren't really known for.
33:26They're more of a sit back. We're going to let the, we're going to play everything in front of us.
33:32But the fact that they're able to play more man coverage with Mitchell, I think that's just going to benefit the pass rush even more.
33:41So again, if this pass rush can, if Jonathan Grenard can be the guy that Jalen Phillips was, I mean, this defense is going to take off.
33:49You know, who's a really good man coverage to reek freaking woolen.
33:53Like what? If anything, my concern is like with him, cause I do think he is best in a deep, which Seattle
34:01didn't play a lot of man coverage. And it's a little complicated, right?
34:05Because Fangio will play a lot of match. And I think for woolen, there will be some challenges, I think, in terms
34:12of switching, you know, to, it's not like super dramatic transformation.
34:16I think probably also the other thing you worry about is always the thing with woolen, which is he's not a good tackler.
34:23Um, and you know, Fangio does, the corners do need to tackle because they play with so many light boxes, but yeah,
34:30like third and long against this team with those corners, even if the pass rush isn't amazing, they're going to have the
34:38ability to get home because the corner coverage is going to be so sticky.
34:42Um, but look, the Broncos are right there. Like you had them for, I had them five there.
34:48I went back and forth a couple of times.
34:51Like this is an obviously incredibly talented unit. I mentioned my concerns about pass rush, potentially linebacker, but another absolutely elite secondary.
34:58Where are you on Riley Moss? Are you on Riley Moss is unfairly maligned Island with me or.
35:04I think he, I think he gets a little bit too much blame.
35:09I think that he is the unfortunate guy opposite of the best corner in football.
35:13So you're going to get thrown at a lot.
35:16He was thrown at the most in the NFL, but I actually think he's grown.
35:21Oh, he's gotten better as a player. It just hasn't really been seen a lot because while he's also gotten better, Pat
35:29Sertan, the second has also still been the best corner in the NFL.
35:33So it really doesn't matter as much because he's going to keep getting the ball thrown at him.
35:39But I actually think he's improved in a lot of ways.
35:42I'll be interested in seeing if Jada Baron, who's their first round pick last year can find his way on the field, right?
35:50Like, cause he was taking the first round thought was he could be starting nickel.
35:55And then McMillan just fended him off. Um, and he only played, I think like 30% of the snaps.
36:01So, you know, I, yeah, he was, I really liked him in college at Texas, but, um, I didn't view that as
36:08him being, you know, anything about him as a referendum on him.
36:12I just thought this is such a talented group.
36:15It was just hard for him to find those opportunities last year.
36:19Yeah. I was really, I was curious when they made the pick because I thought Jake Juan McMillan was really good and for them at nickel.
36:28And because he was able to fend them off.
36:31I'm curious where he kind of slots into this group and how much dime they kind of play with this team.
36:37Because even though like they have the DBs necessary to play dime, I don't know if they have the true like size
36:45to really play that those dime packages. You know, we talk about the Seahawks being able to play dime.
36:51They're able to do that because Nicky Manwari is basically a Sam linebacker, but plays nickel for them.
36:57You know, the Texans are able to do that because Jalen Petrie is a maniac.
37:02But I wonder if Jaday Barron can be that sort of be that nickel or that dime player for them.
37:08Because my biggest worry is that linebacker group, they were, they were attacked.
37:13If you were looking for a big play against Denver, you're going to go at the linebackers.
37:18And I don't think they improved there when it came to just range in coverage.
37:23I think they fit for what they want to do run defense and blitzing wise, but I worry about that group and
37:30coverage and how much they ask Hufanga to sort of cover everything up.
37:35Yeah, it was a popular fix for them or draft pick was like in the second round, like what if the Broncos added a linebacker?
37:43It's kind of been the issue. And I say issue.
37:46I really think Singleton and Stranow are fine. Like they weren't off.
37:50They were bad, but you know, it's similar to any, again, any of these teams in the top five before picking nits.
37:57That is, has been now for a couple of years where teams have tried to go after because largely because there's so
38:04one, the boss to come out quick is the pass rush is so.
38:09And a couple of the fact that they blitz a lot, like the, you know, the ball, like they're, it forces a
38:16certain style of play from opposing offenses. Um, Zach Allen, I feel like is probably, I don't know if he's the unsung hero on this team.
38:24He had 47 quarterback hits last year, just led the NFL.
38:28That's crazy. He, he's so fun because you could tell that he took that year that he and JJ Watt were in
38:35Arizona and sort of modeled his game after like, it's funny seeing the big white defense tackle wearing 99 with the elbow
38:42brace and like, Oh, he's doing the JJ Watt thing.
38:46But he is actually doing like all the arm over the swim moves and the stuff you're able to do with him is super fun.
38:54I think DJ Jones is one of the more unsung nose tackles.
38:58He's always been good. Yeah. Awesome in San Francisco.
39:01He was one of my like most underrated players in the league because of what he did in San Francisco.
39:07I'm curious what this team does without John Franklin Myers, because he was sort of there.
39:13If you didn't want to play some of the lighter edges, because Benito and Cooper are going to get upfield.
39:19And the reason they were able to survive against the run without their edges being so far, like without being, without their
39:26edges actually playing in that role defensively, you had John Franklin Myers as sort of your cleanup guy.
39:32So I'm curious how you do you have Malcolm Roach step up into that role?
39:37He was more of a rotational pass rush guy, but from top to bottom, I still think this team is super fun defensively.
39:45All right. That's our top five. I know that wasn't that exciting.
39:49It's about to get a lot weirder. I promise.
39:52Let's take a quick break, come back, and I promise you JP and I will have different teams six through ten.
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42:45Alright, we're back. Okay. So, I felt pretty good about my 6 and 7.
42:50Everything in my body told me not to put the Vikings 6.
42:54I just looked at this depth chart. No, no, no.
42:57Like, I looked at the depth chart and I was just like, this is not a top 6 defense on paper.
43:04I can't do it to Brian Flores at this point.
43:07I mean, he can't keep getting away with this, Kenny.
43:11He can't keep getting away with this. And yet he does.
43:14I feel so bad for leaving the Vikings off because of Brian Flores.
43:19Like, I didn't have them in my top 10.
43:22They're one of my honorable mentions. Okay, you know what?
43:256 is too high. Ah, I gave him too much credit.
43:28I'm looking at the depth chart. It should not be 6.
43:32I think the- Alright, I'm switching that. I'm putting them 7.
43:36I didn't want to do it. I'm going to put a different team 6.
43:40We'll talk about them in a second. Let's talk about the Vikings.
43:44The benefit, the plus side to the Vikings, who I think are going to be an improved unit this season, is they're just bigger.
43:52I think they were a small team up front last year.
43:56Jalen Redman was kind of holding their defensive line together by himself with Javon Hargrave, Jonathan Allen not being the same caliber players.
44:03But you add Kayla Banks to that, who, when healthy, is a force, just a dominant player.
44:09Dominique Orange sort of compliments him really well against the run.
44:12I think the reason that I left them off is because there's so much change in that secondary.
44:18So much change. By the way, if they're improved, JP, they were third in DVOA.
44:23They were seventh in EPR for play. The man is a wizard.
44:27It's crazy because I want to believe in Brian Flores.
44:30I want to believe in the defensive line, who's gotten – I think they've gotten, like I said, a lot bigger, a
44:38lot stronger against the run, was where I think they're going to improve the most.
44:43But I don't know what to make of this secondary because they have fun.
44:47I know, I know. But last year I was like, I don't know about this corner group.
44:53And then they – yes, I know. They're really – the thing about this depth chart that really strikes you, and you've
45:00kind of touched this, is there's a lot of rookies who are going to have to play.
45:06You mentioned Banks and Orange. Dominique Orange, Big Citrus, great nickname.
45:09I've talked a lot about Kayla Banks. If Kayla Banks hits, it's insane.
45:13It's insane. It's going to be incredible. You know, he's – I don't want to talk about it.
45:19His feet are constantly. Like there's just a lot of issues there.
45:23Corner group is kind of this – they added Pierre, but it's pretty similar.
45:28It's not – you know. And then like they might need Jacoby – I mean, I don't know what's going to happen with Harrison Smith.
45:36Jacoby Thomas, I was kind of surprised he was the Miami safety drafted before Keontae Scott.
45:41That took me by surprise a little bit. But Jake Golday, the linebacker out of Cincinnati, might play for – he though,
45:49like when they made that pick, I was like, ooh.
45:52I'm not trying to stereotype and compare him to Van Ginkle.
45:55But like he is the exact type of tweener, freaky linebacker that Brian Flores likes.
46:00He is. And I think the thing about Jake Golday is you can tell that he's a former defensive end in both
46:08the good ways and the bad ways. When he's like – You're going to have to look at him.
46:14Yeah, when he was sort of as an overhang at Cincinnati, they played a lot of three safety stuff and he was like their overhang.
46:22He wasn't in the tackle box a lot. He would play the run like a defensive end because it's really easy to
46:29read the keys of the guard there. He would destroy pulling guards.
46:33But when he was in the tackle box, it just – the game wasn't seen quickly enough.
46:39So I'm curious how much of like an on-ramp do they give him to starting reps and just kind of be a specialist on like pass rush situation.
46:48That's like the one position where I actually am not really worried at all because they have Cashman.
46:54They brought back Eric Wilson. They have Ivan Pace.
46:57So they actually have decent depth there and good luck trying to describe the personnel that they use.
47:03It obviously makes no sense and is insane. And, you know, it's like the looks that they present are insane.
47:09You know, we've talked about this. This is the team that blitzed 47% of the time and yet played nearly 80% zone coverage.
47:17Like they're just insane. The crazy thing about last year was like even when they didn't blitz, they led the league in pass rush win and pressure rate.
47:26And there's a litany of reasons for that. Some of it is schematic and defenses – offensive lines and quarterbacks being fooled by them.
47:34But some of it is the production that they got out of their pass rushers.
47:39And Dallas Turner was my X factor for them this year.
47:42This is it, right? Like he's got to make the leap.
47:46So much projection across the board. Now I'm regretting it so much.
47:50I just feel like similar to McDonald, Flores is on my you know what, let it ride list.
47:56Like I'm not going to – it is a bit of an eat your vegetables year for them though because they had to shed cap.
48:04They had to trade Grenard. So they do need some of these rookies to step up immediately.
48:10Let me ask you a question. If Caleb Banks is healthy the entire season, do you think this is a top 10 defense?
48:17Ooh. I kind of think they're like just outside.
48:20Okay. I still want to – again, I still want to believe in this defense.
48:25But I guess I'm still sort of like I don't know about this secondary group, especially if Harrison Smith doesn't come back.
48:32You have so many – because this defense has so many moving parts in the secondary.
48:37There's so many things that change. Counting on a lot of rookies in the secondary is not exactly a scenario that you
48:45want if you're the Vikings, if you're Brian Flores.
48:48Because then you'd have to sort of – you worry about simplifying the defense to make sure the rookies get it right.
48:55And that's the best thing about the Flores defenses is that they're all complex.
48:59You never know what you're going to get from them.
49:03But I could see this team getting into the top 10 if Banks is healthy just because if you have that defensive line already back up to speed.
49:12If Banks is the guy they hoped he is, you're able to get Dallas Turner that sort of that leap year.
49:19I mean there's no reason why Brian Flores still can't pull like a rabbit out of a hat and take this defense to a top 10 level.
49:28All right. Who did – now I feel super soft.
49:31I'm going to leave them at seven. I'm going to switch six and seven.
49:35Who did you have at six? I had the New England Patriots.
49:39Okay. I have them at 10. So, yeah, let me pull up my – okay.
49:44I am such a fan of Zach Corp and what he did in the second half of the season.
49:51And I think it's sort of what you got to do when you lose Milton Williams and sort of a pass rusher like Milton Williams.
49:59You say, you know what? Screw it. We're just going to blitz all the time.
50:04And I think it benefits them because I think their strength is their secondary.
50:08When you have Christian Gonzalez who was phenomenal last year and had an incredible Super Bowl.
50:14Carlton Davis who is a good number two corner when healthy.
50:17Marcus Jones at nickel. Craig Woodson is a guy who I think is going to take a big jump in his second year at safety.
50:25I think you have an alleyway to play so many different things because the secondary is that good.
50:31And I still think the duo of Milton Williams and Christian Barmore is going to give them a lot of juice up front.
50:39And now if you have a guy like Draymond Jones who can sort of be the heavy end for them.
50:45And you can get just some pass rush from the combination of Draymond Jones, Harold Landry, Gabe Ackes, who I was a fan of.
50:53That's the biggest question for them is that pass rush off the edge.
50:58That's the problem. Yeah, it's the one. Yeah. Yeah.
51:00It's the big thing. Bring them higher. Is that edge group.
51:04It's interesting to like profile wise, like Draymond Jones and Ackes are like just big pocket pusher types.
51:10Right. I guess it's hurt now, by the way.
51:13So we'll see. I hate it when rookies are hurt in the offseason and miss the offseason program because you're like, I
51:20don't even know when I would see them. I don't know what it'll look like.
51:25It's kind of frustrating. Draymond Jones was surprisingly productive last year in Baltimore.
51:29I thought after the second half of the season and you know, the defensive tackles are awesome.
51:35Barmore and Milton Williams are an awesome combo. But I think your point about Zach Kerr and like the potential that he
51:42might, we might see a little bit more during the regular season of what we saw in the playoffs and towards the
51:49end, which is to say him smashing pressure. Makes sense because yeah, the cornerback group is the strength of this team.
51:56I will say, I don't love Jalen Hawkins was like kind of the players who walked for the Patriots or were like
52:03kind of sneaky good, which is Jalen Hawkins and then Paris Tonga and Clayvon chase on.
52:09They were all kind of good last year and I don't love losing those three players in particular.
52:15I understand, you know, cap and all that, but like they're, they were good.
52:19Losing Chai song kind of was like, dang, I wish they would have kept him around because of the juice that he
52:26had added as a pass rusher in like just designated pass rush situations.
52:31I thought he was a nice compliment to Draymond Jones and then bring in Gabe Akis obviously would have been a really nice compliment to Chai song.
52:40But I feel like they're putting a lot of chips into the Harold Landry board or in the Harold Landry table.
52:46I'm not sure if I'm as confident that he's going to return to 100%, but if he can just give you some
52:54form of juice off the edge, you have these two guys who can win Jones and Akis who can push pockets and
53:01funnel quarterbacks to Milton Williams and Christian Barmore. And then you can just allow for Harold Landry to come on in spots.
53:08The thing I'll also add is like, I think that this could be a very good run defense, kind of like how
53:15it looked in the beginning of last year. And then there was some injuries and even with Tonga out, you know, Corey
53:22Durden's a fine nose, but Barmore Williams, healthy Spillane who missed summer last year as well.
53:28And I talked about, you know, Jones, the profile of the pass rushers that they have.
53:33It should be quite complete up front against the run.
53:36And if the offense is anything close to what it was last year, they'll get a lot of pass rush opportunities as well.
53:44So, yeah, I think, you know, just very talented young play caller who really found the right buttons to push on the postseason run.
53:52And one thing I'm just sort of interested in is like how much of the postseason run had to do with the
53:59quality of the offensive lines that they faced. Yeah.
54:02A little bit, you know, in terms of like all the pressure that they got against Houston and the Chargers.
54:08And then they got to face Jarrett Stidham. So it's like, you know, a little bit.
54:14I count how much of that is like real.
54:17Yeah. But I do think if they're going to go into 2026 just saying we're going to be a big pressure team.
54:24We're just going to spam blitzes because we know we have the secondary to live behind that.
54:29I don't see a problem with it. I think it's a gamble, obviously.
54:34But when you have Gonzalez, you have Marcus Jones, Carlton Davis, it's a risk you're kind of willing to take because I
54:41don't know if they're going to be able to get consistent pass rush before.
54:45All right. My number six. New six. After I cowardly changed my team.
54:50I got to think they're in your top 10.
54:53Going with the Jacksonville Jaguars. They are my number seven.
54:56Okay, great. Amazing. All right. So, yeah. This, first of all, let's talk about last year because this was a very, I
55:03think this was one of the real like, oh, take a step back and look at, you know, I mentioned some of the rankings at the top.
55:12The Jags were ahead of Pilly. One, two, three, four, five, six in DVOA.
55:17Third in EPA per play. And they were 13th in success rate.
55:21So, you know, I think it was a little bit slept on how good they were in Anthony Caponini's first year as defensive coordinator.
55:28I think retaining him, having that continuity is massive for this team.
55:32But for me, I understand you have players walking out the door in terms of Devin Lloyd.
55:38And that really does hurt. And I have some concerns about the run defense.
55:43But I really like the secondary. And I'm starting in the back here.
55:47And I talked about it when I talked about Travis Hunter as my ex-factor for the team.
55:52But that group of him, Monteric Brown, Jordan Lewis, they have decent depth with Jerrion Jones, Dane Jackson, and then Antonio Johnson and Eric Murray.
56:01So I'm not going to talk about Hunter. I want to talk about Antonio Johnson because I think like, you know, we've
56:08been talking about who are like slept on players.
56:11I mean, Monteric Brown, you would also put in this group because I think he was kind of, he kind of came out of nowhere for me.
56:20And I was really impressed by him last season.
56:23So Antonio Johnson, when he was targeted, a lot of passer rating of 43, which is the best of all safeties in the NFL.
56:30I thought he was a super complete safety as well.
56:34I thought he was reliable in terms of his tackling and stopping the run on top of that.
56:40And I kind of feel like when you take a step back and you look at this group as a whole, there aren't really glaring weaknesses.
56:48JP. Like it's a really, if Hunter is anything close to what we think he can be as a corner.
56:55And I think he, and I, from what I saw last year, I think it's there.
57:00Like, I, I, I kind of love this. They're, they're a very well-rounded defense.
57:05I think they're not, I don't think they have a lot of the same levels of force multipliers as teams like Houston or even Seattle.
57:13But I do think Anthony Campanelli and what he did as a defensive coordinator was a very underrated point about the Jaguar season last year.
57:21I think the things that he was able to do when it came to changing personnel and changing fronts, Dennis Gardek was a July signing.
57:29That turned into one of the most important players on that defense.
57:33Buster Brown, what are you able to get out of him?
57:37Antonio Johnson, I had no idea the ball production was going to happen for the way it did with Antonio Johnson.
57:44Just the way that he was able to play the ball coming top down.
57:48And that's exactly what Campanelli wants from his defense is just to play top down.
57:53They play a lot of quarter, quarter, half. They play a lot of quarters defense.
57:58You want to try and get your safeties flying downhill.
58:01And so I think, I think the turnovers probably won't be as sticky because one, a lot of the turnover production is now in Carolina, which is understandable.
58:10But two, like turnovers don't really like stick year over year.
58:14But I think that tradeoff of not getting a lot of turnovers, but being able to just get stops.
58:20I think they're going to get more stops this year because Travis Hunter at corner, you have built such a really versatile defensive backroom.
58:28And if you really are worried about Jordan Lewis's health, he missed a lot of time last year with injury.
58:35Jari and Jones steps in a nickel and you don't really miss a beat.
58:39Yeah. Speaking about the turnovers versus stops, this was a team that we talked about was an elite need people to play just outside the top 10.
58:48And then success rate, you could see those kind of approach each other a little bit more where they're a little bit
58:55more consistent on a down to down basis. A very good tackling group.
59:00Something I always felt, I felt watching them last season, all three levels.
59:04Again, Lloyd was really good in run defense. And in addition to getting the turnovers last season, and I'll be interested in
59:11seeing, I guess, Ventrell Miller is kind of going to get more run.
59:15And he looked fine. And, you know, next to Olakun, who's just kind of old reliable there.
59:21But so I do not love that loss. But I also think the front is good enough to protect Miller.
59:28And I think the safeties have just been in the whole the secondary has been really good against the run to Hunter.
59:35To me, looks completely. You know, he's a little bit of a smaller corner.
59:39I didn't think it looked like it out there.
59:42There's a couple times where he got a little bit pushed around and pressed the line of scrimmage.
59:48But like JP, I thought he was like pretty solid tackling.
59:52Like he looked pretty. And I think he's put on a little weight if I saw that somewhere, perhaps.
59:58So I think like complete is the word I keep going back to when I think of this group.
60:04Like I look at them and, you know, Josh Hines Allen is their best pass rusher.
60:10Walker. Walker's a great like avatar for this defense.
60:13He's not Trevon Walker. Yeah. No, he's not, you know, the one one dream upside that perhaps people had in mind when they drafted him.
60:21But he's a good ass football player. He tackles well.
60:24He gets pressure. He fits really well, I think, within the like the scheme of what like Kevin really wants.
60:31And I think I feel that way about the group as a whole.
60:35Like there's just really solid top to bottom. They're such a physical defense and they want it to be more physical.
60:42And I think going to the Travis Hunter point, I think people lost in sort of the receiver versus DB like push pull last year.
60:50He was really freaking good at DB last year.
60:53Like he had a lot of really nice moments.
60:56Just didn't see a lot of it because he was needed on offense.
61:00But now that you have him on defense, I think he's going to shine a lot more.
61:06And then up front, I mean, Trayvon Walker is, I think he's Anthony Campanelli's Madden user.
61:11If he could use any player on the defense, it's Trayvon Walker.
61:15He's like, okay, we're going to move Trayvon Walker inside, move Dennis Gardeck down on the edge and we can rush the passer that way.
61:23We're going to move Trayvon Walker inside. And you can play Danny Strigow who somehow like seemingly became like their third pass
61:30rusher last year, which I thought was really cool.
61:33I just, for me, for them to be higher, I would like to see them at a different pitch as a pass rusher.
61:41As a pass rusher. I think they need, for all their pass rushers when converting speed to power and with the long
61:48arm, with the bull rush, I think they need another type of pitch to get quick pressures.
61:54I feel like they are sort of in the same range as the Rams were or the Packers were pre-adding Myles Garrett and Michael Parsons.
62:02They need quick pressure guys. And I think it's going to have to take Josh Hines out another career year for it to happen.
62:10But that's the biggest worry. I think my feeling is that if the secondary is what I think it can be, it'll
62:17alleviate that to some degree because I just, I really like this group in the back end.
62:22But yeah, they're good. I'm six and seven. It's pretty high.
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64:13Okay, so I had six Jags, seven Vikings. You have the Patriots at six, correct?
64:18Jags at seven. And you can go next. Who do you have at eight?
64:22I have the Cleveland Browns. They just have the top ten.
64:26Okay. Okay. I'm still a believer in the Browns.
64:29They don't have Myles Garrett, which is going to be a major, like, you don't just lose Myles Garrett and keep up the defense.
64:37But I still think this team is very talented on that side of the ball.
64:41Jared Verse, while he is not Myles Garrett, I think that is just always going to be like he's not a Myles Garrett player.
64:49He's still a really good football player. Adding him on top of year two of Mason Graham.
64:55You have the nice depth on the defensive line that I think can really complement both of those guys.
65:01Graham started to come along towards the back end of last season.
65:05Carson Schlesinger was awesome as a rookie linebacker. Just everywhere.
65:08But I think just the physicality really stood out.
65:11I was worried for him that he would put on weight and get a little slower.
65:17But his range was still super, super good. Adding Quincy Williams with him is a really nice fit in that defense.
65:23And then adding Emmanuel McNeil Warren to the secondary group I think is going to be really fun.
65:29And just some of the stuff that new defensive coordinator Mike Grudenberg, who comes from Atlanta, he's going to do a lot more.
65:37I think he's going to do a lot more simulated pressure stuff, a lot more different looks.
65:43So I'm curious how that all looks in the grand scheme of things.
65:47But this is a very talented team. I'm so interested in what this scheme looks like.
65:52Because under Jim Schwartz, it was so kind of unique in the NFL in terms of like we are just going to rush with four.
66:00We're going to play man coverage. We're going to line up our edges wide.
66:05And now it's like, who knows, right? Like coming from Atlanta, it's really interesting.
66:09It was a defense that was very chaotic last season under Jeff Ulbrich.
66:14And I do wonder without Myles Garrett, if we see them send more pressure, if we, like you say, you see more stimulated pressures.
66:22I'll be interested in seeing kind of the identity of this group because there's still a lot of talent.
66:28It's still, you know, like you named, like the corners are still really good.
66:32We'll see what happens with Denzel Ward, by the way, if he stays there.
66:37I'm curious. Tyson Campbell was decent for them. Obviously, you know, the backers look like to appear to be a strength.
66:44So, yeah, I think that was my big question.
66:47I was like, if I think if I had a better feel for the defensive coordinator, I might have snuck them into
66:54the top 10 because I do think this is a really talented unit.
66:58But this was, for me, like a let's see what this looks like group.
67:03But they could be very good. They've obviously – the way the Browns have done their rebuild makes a lot of sense.
67:10And they, if they have even decent quarterback play, would be like a league pass type team.
67:16But I don't think that's going to happen this year.
67:19I don't either. I like how they built their team.
67:22I'm curious what year is sort of like, all right, now it's time to actually go win some football games instead of being like the cute rebuild team.
67:31But this defense should be, again, just an incredibly fast team.
67:35They should be still very fast, very physical. Yeah.
67:38All right. Tampa is my number eight team. I'm so glad you included Tampa.
67:43They're my number 10. Okay, cool. The whole NFC South might have good defense this year.
67:48Is that crazy? I looked at all – okay.
67:51And I so wanted to put the Panthers on my list, which would have been so – like, that would have been
67:58my big one, as they say in Love Island.
68:01And let's put a pin in the Panthers and talk about them later.
68:05We got to talk about the Saints, which was a team that was massively better last year under Brandon Staley.
68:12But I just – and the Falcons too, right?
68:15But the Tampa, I thought, addressed their biggest problem.
68:18And I think I just like the players the best on this team from top to bottom, even though the Panthers, I
68:25think, have a very high upside potential. Maybe higher than Tampa, but it's so speculative with them.
68:30But, you know, let's just cut to it. I mean, this pressure – the lack of pressure has been the biggest problem
68:38on this team, particularly the pressure with the four-man rush.
68:41It's just something that they have not been able to fix since the Super Bowl run.
68:46What was that, 2021? It was a post-gup. And, you know, I looked at this depth chart, and I think Yaya Diaby is a great number two.
68:55I really do. Bain Jr., Al-Qadim Muhammad, who was like crazy productive last year.
69:00And you don't – look, he's 31. You want him to be rotational.
69:04But I really feel like – and then addressing the linebacker position with Alex Anzalone, and then they drafted Trotter Jr., could
69:11be – I feel like in terms of like what was our biggest – like the Eagles did the best job of
69:18like addressing their biggest problem last year, right, which was quarterback too.
69:22Okay, you get your goal. But like as far as like, you know, answers for pass rush, this could be a very improved four-man rush, JP.
69:31I think the way that they improved their pass rush, and even their front seven in general, might be one of my
69:38favorite sort of revamps of a single side of the ball, because their biggest issues, like you said, were lack of a
69:45four-man rush, and then their linebackers just did not have the range and coverage.
69:50So Todd Bowles ended up playing this game where you always had to send simulated pressures, and when the pressures wouldn't get
69:57home, you'd have games like – honestly, both Atlanta games last year where the simulated pressures wouldn't work.
70:03Quarterback would just pick them apart. And then if you just tried to run the basic four-man rushes, you couldn't really get
70:10home, and you'd still get picked apart because your linebackers are still a liability.
70:15I think Reuben Bain Jr. is such a fun fit in this defense.
70:19Because not only is he going to play 110 miles an hour, he is going to be a really good stunter, looper.
70:26He is going to open up a lot of things for Kalijah Canty, who is one of the bigger question marks, bigger X factors in the NFC.
70:35If he can just stay healthy, there's your winner as a pass rusher.
70:39I love adding Josiah Trotter to this defense. He was one of my favorite prospects entering this draft because he just plays so much bigger than his size.
70:49He sort of reminded me a little bit of N'Kobe Dean coming out of Georgia where just you want that guy flying downhill as fast as possible.
70:57And the fit next to Anzalone, who was more of the coverage guy, now makes a lot more sense.
71:04When they just signed Anzalone in isolation, it was like, oh, I see the vision for it, but you need someone else next to him.
71:12Now you go get Trotter, and then if you can just keep this secondary healthy, that secondary can be really, really good.
71:19I know this is the secondary where I was like, on paper, I really like this, but Ben Morrison is hurting it.
71:26But hypothetically, you get Jacob Parrish playing outside, which was a position he played in college.
71:32And I know he's like 5'10", 11 generously, but I'm telling you that he can play outside.
71:37Keontae Scott then can slide into the nickel. He is like every draft nerd's favorite player, I feel like.
71:43And then Winfield Jr. can play free safety and roam.
71:47And it's like, okay, cool. All of a sudden, you feel everyone's kind of in their natural position.
71:53But health is, and McCollum, you know, he's a solid on the outside.
71:57You need everyone to stay healthy. And it is also a little bit on paper right now because there's a lot of
72:04moving pieces and youth, frankly, outside of. So I do feel like it could all come together really well.
72:10But the thing I'll say about the Bucks is this, too, JP.
72:14I know this is going to be an elite run defense because it's all elite.
72:19So there's a baseline. This team last year against the run was first in success rate, first in adjusted line yards, first in stuff rate.
72:27And as long as you got Vita Veya, manning that inside.
72:31They have A'shaun Robinson now, which is very funny.
72:34A'shaun Robinson is going to be one of those guys who's like, there's such an archetype of a first rounder who is
72:41like initially like disappointing and then just plays in the NFL for like 20 years.
72:46He came into the NFL looking like he had already played for 20 years.
72:51But like, I know Rude May Jr. is really good against the run, too.
72:55I know this is going to be a really, really good run defense.
72:59And so there's, you know, it's like, OK, cool.
73:02Now, if you can just get pass rush juice and if those guys can stay healthy on the back end, that's where
73:10you go from being like a top 10 to 15 defense to being 5 to 10, which is where I have them.
73:17And that's sort of where my question is, it's does Todd Bowles still know which buttons to press?
73:23I still think that he was he was a fine coordinator last year.
73:27It's just they didn't have the personnel to do everything that he wanted to do.
73:32And this is just overall for the Bucs, a huge year because it feels like this might be the last year that this core all stays together.
73:41So if Bowles can push the right buttons, which we've seen him do, he is one of those guys where we talked about Mike McDonald.
73:49We talked about Brian Flores. Whereas I'm one of the guys sort of believes like Todd Bowles is going to coach a good run defense.
73:57He's going to coach a good defense. It's just now can you get this pass rush back up to 100% so you
74:04don't always have to rely on the simulated pressures.
74:07All right. So you had them 10. I had them 8.
74:11So to recap, I have Jags, Vikings, Bucs, Blank at 9, and then the Patriots at 10.
74:17You had Patriots 6, Jags 7, 8 was Blank.
74:19Oh, Brown's 8. 9 is Blank. And then 10, you had one of my teams, the Bucs.
74:25You had the Bucs at 10. Okay. So we both have one remaining team at 9.
74:30I'll go first. And then you can tell me.
74:33I put the Ravens here. I did too. I also had the Ravens.
74:38I really wanted to be really hipster and say the Saints.
74:41That's one of my team. That was me with the Panthers.
74:45The whole NFC style, I was like looking at me like a demon's, like the Green Goblin mask where I was like
74:52Jalen Phillips, Devin Lloyd, those corners, Derek Brown. And then the Saints are so hipster.
74:57They were so much better last year. Okay. Let's talk about, let's devote a little bit of time to the Panthers and the Saints.
75:05Yeah. Yes. That was my big takeaway making this list.
75:08I was like the NFC South. I have major questions about every single team on offense, but defensively, they're all kind of good.
75:16Like I really sneaky decent. Okay. But let's start.
75:19The Ravens were destroyed by the injury bug last year.
75:22They were 30th and adjusted games lost on defense.
75:25Straight up. I'll just say it. This whole thing is predicated on meta week.
75:29Coming back from here. Yeah. If I'm going to get him to come back, I want a huge caveat.
75:36I'm taking them out. Yeah. Yeah. One of my notes is Nani Meduike here.
75:40They're going to be top 10. If he's not here, I'm removing them from this list.
75:45A part of the reason they'd be top 10 is because if he's there, it's like a really sneaky, fun pass rush again.
75:53Travis Jones next to him. They added Clayus Campbell back.
75:56Tavius Robinson opposite Trey Hendrickson and some mix of Zion young and Mike green.
76:01Like that's a good group. And it's if, if man, we case in the mix.
76:06I don't think they'd be awful without him necessarily.
76:09But if we're talking about them as a top 10 unit that needs to happen.
76:14And I thought a stat last year, that was pretty telling.
76:17This was a defense that was third in EPA per play.
76:21When they got pressure, they were 26 when they didn't.
76:24And they rarely got pressure. They were near the bottom of the league and every pressure metric that you look at.
76:31The backend should be really good. And we can talk about them in a second, but it won't matter if the, if
76:38they're not able to get pressure and on paper, this is a group that should be able to get pressure.
76:45And the biggest thing is adding not only Jesse mentor, but Anthony Weaver.
76:49I think they both have shown they can create pressure.
76:52They can manufacture pressures. That's something that when you watch mentor with the chargers, of course they had Cleo Mack to lead
77:00to lead below too, but they were able to manufacture pressure really well.
77:04They were able to use a lot of design pass rush games really effectively.
77:08I think, again, I'm hoping Matawike is healthy because he fits this defense and mentors defense so well because he is such
77:16an effective guy on stunts, on loops. Because you have a house in Travis Jones, you can have Matawike turning the corner
77:23around Travis Jones and you have the ability to do so many different games opposite Trey Hendrickson, who is just your winner.
77:30If you want somebody to sort of flush, like you want to, you want somebody who can convert the pressures into sacks.
77:37Hendrickson's going to convert those pressures into sacks. So if Matawike is healthy, you have all these different guys who fit as
77:44sort of like hammers on, on pass rush games.
77:47Zion Young is a really good hammer. Tavius Robinson is a good hammer.
77:52You're just going to open up lanes for Matawike, which is why Matawike being healthy means so much to this team.
77:59I also really like the Jalen Hawkins addition, who I mentioned I didn't love the Patriots losing him.
78:04I think he's really solid. It would be the third safety, right?
78:08Because this is a team that plays a ton of dime.
78:12And I really like them when they have, it's a team that is at its best when it has multiple safety so that they can weaponize Kyle Hamilton.
78:21And both him and Starks are interchangeable to me on the back end out of those split safety looks so you can
78:28move Hamilton around, play him close to the box, have him threatening to rush, use him as a big nickel or, you
78:36know, like a do it all, you know? So I, I get like, I, there's weaknesses to be sure.
78:42Second corner opposite Wiggins. Nate Wiggins is great. It's like a woozy or Tampa, you know, probably a woozy, not the best.
78:49Second linebacker remains a little bit of a question mark.
78:52But I do think the, there's enough that pass rush coupled with this three safety look, coupled with the coaching additions.
78:59This could get back on track pretty quickly. I'm, I'm sort of curious if they move Marlon Humphrey back outside just, just
79:06because you want Kyle Hamilton closer to the action.
79:09And I know they signed Jalen Hawkins. I know you want to really play Kyle Hamilton in versatile spots, but just thinking
79:17about what Jesse mentor did with Derwin James and just sort of having him close to the action, basically a dime linebacker.
79:24I sort of feel like you want to do that same stuff with Kyle Hamilton, but that's reliant on having a second
79:31outside corner or having Humphrey play on the outside and just letting Hamilton roam as a nickel.
79:37I just think there's a lot of variance with their cornerback group, which is not always great.
79:42But I just, again, with the coaching changes, this team was talented last year.
79:47They were still a talented defense. It's just now you have somebody else controlling the sticks.
79:52And this is sort of hope this sort of hoping that mentor can still do what he did in Los Angeles.
79:59Did you have any consideration for his own team, the Chargers?
80:03I did. I think outside of the top 10, I was really considering the Vikings, the Chargers, and then the NFC South in general.
80:10Yes. So the Chargers, I gave a lot of consideration to just because the formula for the defense isn't changing.
80:17The structure, schematics aren't changing. Chris O'Leary comes in as defensive coordinator, was a safeties coach under Jesse Mentor in 2024, spent
80:24time as defensive coordinator for Western Michigan in 2025.
80:27But we've seen recently how changing coordinators but keeping the same scheme doesn't mean that the defense keeps up.
80:33We saw with Mike McDonald and Zach Orr. I just worry a little bit about that sort of aspect to it.
80:40And I think Jesse Mentor did a really good job of maximizing the players that they did have on that roster because
80:48I think the Chargers defense is good, but they didn't have a lot of overwhelming force multipliers.
80:53Their force multiplier was Jesse Mentor, and now he is the head coach of the Ravens.
80:58So I gave them consideration, but I had them just outside.
81:02Yeah. They've always kind of felt like a little bit some of the parts type defense, right?
81:08And there's really good players. I mean, I love Diane Henley.
81:11Like Derwin James Jr., awesome. And he was so good under Mentor, and I was thinking like, okay, but now you take out the coach.
81:19I don't know. I think the defensive line to me wasn't enough for me to feel good about them sustaining with the coaching change.
81:27We'll see. I could be wrong. And then, yeah, the NFC South, pouring to the Panthers, like the Saints were like quietly.
81:34I'm like very high on the Saints. And I like a lot about this team.
81:39We even talked about them briefly in the top 10 offices.
81:43We didn't put them in, but you know, there's a lot to like there.
81:48And there's a lot to like on this defense that was extremely good in the second half last year.
81:54And yes, that's because of the competition to some degree.
81:57But guess what? They get to play the same offenses for the most part.
82:02I thought Brandon Staley, too, like quietly rebuilding his resume is kind of a funny storyline.
82:07Cody Alexander, who does a great sub stack, which people should check out, had a really good piece on how the Saints
82:14defense sort of made some adjustments as years went on and ended up playing a ton of base, which with a split
82:21safety structure behind it as a way of stopping play action.
82:25And they were very effective against the run. I encourage people to go check out.
82:30I'll get into it more when I talk about the Saints and division preview.
82:34But when you look at the depth chart, it makes sense.
82:38Like I like this group of linebackers. I love that Katie Nellis is back.
82:43I think there's some talented players in the young secondary, the safeties, you know, I read Justin Reed's been really good there.
82:50But yeah, I think there's still no superstars on this defense.
82:53And that's ultimately why, like, I feel like if they added Jalen Phillips, you know, maybe put them in the top 10.
83:01I'll talk about the team that did because this team was more fundamentally sound than the Panthers last year.
83:07But right now it still feels like they're missing like a dude in terms of rushing the quarterback.
83:13As good as Chase Young's been, by the way, because he's been pretty good for them too.
83:18So I was looking up like some stats for and prepping for like potential breakout units this season.
83:24And I came along to Saints defense who in 2025, according to True Media, they were third in percentages of explosive plays given up behind Seattle and Denver.
83:34They were fifth in havoc rate, which is plays in the attack for loss sack, forced fumble, pass breakup interception.
83:40They were fifth in defensive success rate. And I kept going back and like every stat that I was looking for, for
83:47great defenses, the Saints always popped up. And so when I went and watched them, I was, I was kind of surprised.
83:54Like I was sort of thinking going in, like, is the Brandon Staley defense going to play incredibly light?
84:01They're going to try and keep everything in front of them.
84:04But I do want to shout out their defensive line coach, Bo Davis, for just the turnaround this defensive line unit has been in general.
84:13They do so much when it comes to running stunts and games.
84:16They know that they don't really have like a true force multiplier on that side or on the defensive front.
84:23So they do so much when it comes to pass rush games, when it comes to lining up and showing simulated pressures.
84:30And then the secondary, I think is fun. I still think, I think there may be like a year away and I
84:37think they need like one more like impact guy.
84:40But I mean, a group of Jonas Sanker, who I thought was pretty good as a rookie, Quincy Riley, who was one
84:48of my draft crushes as in 2025, I believe.
84:51And then you add Justin Reed on top of that linebacker group, like Danny Stutzman played at a level high enough, they're
84:58willing to let the Mario Davis walk, which is huge because Mickey Loomis doesn't let anybody walk.
85:03So I think the Saints defense could surprise a lot of people.
85:07I'm very curious about what they do this upcoming season.
85:11Yeah. I mean, brought back Cam Jordan, who was again, like pretty productive last year.
85:16And Chase Young is kind of similar to what I said about A'shaun Robinson, like a player who like never lived up
85:23to the initial hype, but is like just going to be a good, I think, NFL player for a long time.
85:30Okay. And Carolina, look, I'm so enticed by this diva.
85:33I was so close to putting them in the top 10 because like they have not just, they have, I think, top
85:4010 players at premium positions, which is something that a lot of the teams we talk about, Derek Brown, Jalen Phillips, Devin Lloyd, JC Horn, and Mike Jackson.
85:49Like that in alone is enough. I have questions about a lot of the other positions, safety, nickel, second line.
85:56There's, you know, like it feels like, okay, like let's see if those players can kind of elevate everyone else.
86:02Nick Scorton was, I think showed promise next year.
86:05Now he gets to run rush opposite Phillips. So like, that's a great example.
86:10Like if, if Phillips is presence suddenly elevates Scorton and makes, he creates opportunities for Derek Brown.
86:16It's so easy for me to imagine this defense, especially with those corners being really good, but it is so hypothetical at this point.
86:23It is my big leap. It is very, very hypothetical.
86:27And I do want to see this pass rush because one of the things easier or Evero, the Panthers defensive coordinator does, he does not tend pressure.
86:36They're not, they're not going to blitz. So I just think that having guys like Jalen Phillips, who can win, who can
86:43win with four Knicks, Gordon, you have guys at Prince William Mellon coming off the edge of the designated pass rusher.
86:50Nailed that pronunciation. Like nailed it. I just think you have all these guys as a pass rush unit.
86:56Like it should work. So I'm curious to see what happens, but on paper, like it's easy to believe.
87:02Also definitely like, I know again, some of his like reputation was a little bit inflated last year by interceptions and those
87:09can be not sticky, especially for the linebacker position.
87:12But he was also like very fundamentally sound against the run and plays a position where players tend to peak at this age.
87:20Right? Like, so, and I thought the contract was totally reasonable.
87:23Phillips is a little bit of an overpay, but it is funny, right?
87:28Like the Fangio disciples just kind of passing around the same kind of type of play.
87:33Because Evero, it's not surprising that they wanted Jalen Phillips.
87:36And I remain a big fan of his game, even if the sacks haven't been there.
87:41So I don't know. I'm excited to watch this group.
87:45I think they could be really good. The whole NFC South could have competent defense, which is really funny.
87:51So yeah, I, okay. So to recap, I'll read mine again.
87:55Ours were like basically the same at the top.
87:58Um, Texans, Seahawks, Rams, Eagles, Broncos, scrolling, Jags, Vikings.
88:01I'm going to regret that one. I know I am.
88:04Bucks, Ravens, Patriots. Want to revisit, reread yours to the class?
88:07Okay. So I had Texans at one, Seahawks, Rams, Broncos, Eagles rounding out the top five.
88:13Then Patriots at six, Jaguars at seven. Browns at eight.
88:16Ravens at nine. And the Tampa Bay Buccaneers at 10.
88:19Who's going to be the angriest about not being discussed?
88:22Steelers, maybe? I could see Steelers fans. The Steelers, maybe.
88:26Maybe the Chargers. Yeah, the Chargers. I know. I think the Chargers might be the most missed.
88:31I think the Chargers offense is going to take a step forward and the Chargers defense is going to take a step back.
88:39Yeah, it's going to like skew the other way.
88:42Um, all right. That's it. Lions, you're too hurt.
88:45I'm sorry. I can't do it. Yeah. Uh, that's it for maybe the Falcons.
88:49We, I don't know. We'll see. Uh, that's it for their top 10 this week.
88:54JP, are you watching Love Island? I am not.
88:57I'm we're, we're thinking about getting into it. My fiance and I are thinking about getting into it.
89:03Don't do it. Uh, for those who do watch Love Island, you can check out my Love Island recap pod with David Dennis Jr.
89:11Also at youtube.com slash at meeting times, or you can listen to it in audio.
89:16It's called viewer discretion. Um, we will be starting division previews next week.
89:20Crazy. It's already that time of year. So make sure to tune in for that as we roll through every division.
89:27I will also be starting my power hours where I power rank the entire NFL with guests soon.
89:33Uh, as I mentioned, again, you can check out JP's podcast, pushing the pile wherever you get your pods.
89:39Thank you as always to everyone at Omaha productions, Kirsten Specky, Owen Saylor, Tucker Tassian, and Jack Foster.
89:45I'll see you guys next week. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome.
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