AFC North Preview
STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.
1 hr 33 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Aug 20, 2026
Published
Thu, August 20, 2026
20
Player insights
19
Players mentioned
Topics
Mark AndrewsAaron RodgersChase BrownDenzel BostonDerrick HenryDeshaun WatsonDK MetcalfDrew AllarElijah SarrattErick AllHarold FanninJoe BurrowLamar JacksonMason Rudolph
Player analysis
Player insights
Aaron Rodgers
PositiveProjection7:02
Aaron Rodgers remains the limiting factor for the Steelers' offense. His current style involves quick releases and a shallow depth of target, and there is skepticism regarding his willingness to operate a traditional, drop-back passing offense under Mike McCarthy.
Insight pageChase Brown
PositiveUsage30:53
Chase Brown has expressed excitement about the team's shift toward playing under center, which could help him become more explosive as a runner.
Insight pageDenzel Boston
PositiveBreakout73:22
Mina Kimes expresses excitement about Denzel Boston, noting that he grew on her during the pre-draft process and she expects him to be a stud.
Insight pageDerrick Henry
NegativeProjection67:02
Mina Kimes notes that while Derrick Henry is not as efficient as he has been at times in his career, he has not shown meaningful signs of decline that would warrant concern.
Insight pageDeshaun Watson
NegativeBust71:22
Mina Kimes observes that Deshaun Watson looks the same as he did pre-injury, passing up deep throws and failing to push the ball downfield, leading to questions about his long-term viability.
Insight pageDK Metcalf
NegativeInjury2:16
DK Metcalf has missed significant practice time due to an undisclosed injury. While he is expected to be ready for the season, his specific role in the new offense remains a question mark given his past lack of versatility.
Insight pageDrew Allar
PositiveBreakout22:10
Drew Aller showed significant improvement in the preseason compared to his college tape, specifically playing with better mental speed and anticipation. He is a candidate to potentially challenge for the QB2 role if the team prioritizes developing young talent.
Insight pageElijah Sarratt
PositiveRole62:20
Mina Kimes expresses a preference for Elijah Surratt over Jacoby Lane due to his reliability and strong preseason performance, noting his big-bodied frame could be useful in 11 or 12 personnel packages.
Insight pageErick All
PositiveBreakout32:23
Eric All is a player to monitor as a potential changeup for the Bengals; unlike Mike Gesicki, he possesses an all-around skill set that allows the team to run 12 personnel effectively.
Insight pageHarold Fannin
PositiveBreakout73:44
Mina Kimes praises Harold Fannin Jr. for his blocking ability and versatility, suggesting there is more to his game than meets the eye.
Insight pageJoe Burrow
PositiveUsage27:46
The Bengals are actively repping Joe Burrow under center in the preseason to increase offensive explosiveness and diversity, moving away from a pure spread-heavy approach.
Insight pageLamar Jackson
PositiveProjection64:04
Mina Kimes remains highly confident in Lamar Jackson, citing his adaptability and MVP-level performance under different coordinators; she attributes last year's struggles to health and lack of mobility rather than scheme fit.
Insight pageMark Andrews
NegativeUsage58:43
Kimes questions Andrews' role in the new offense, noting that his snap share may decrease and his ability to contribute to the run game is a lingering question.
Insight pageNegativeRole59:49
Mina Kimes notes that despite speculation about his tenure ending, the Ravens have consistently brought Mark Andrews back; she questions if he will buy into his role and experience a late-career renaissance.
Insight pageMason Rudolph
NegativeDepth Chart21:43
Mason Rudolph is currently in the mix for the backup quarterback role and played well in the preseason. While he may offer the best immediate chance to win if Rodgers is injured, the team may prefer to prioritize younger prospects like Drew Aller.
Insight pageMichael Pittman
PositiveUsage7:24
Michael Pittman Jr. is an ideal fit for the current version of Aaron Rodgers, who prioritizes quick, short-to-intermediate passing. Pittman excels in this role, ranking seventh in the NFL with a 79% catch rate on throws of 10 yards or less over the last three seasons.
Insight pageMike Gesicki
NegativeRole32:32
Mike Gesicki is viewed as a 'glorified slot' receiver rather than a traditional tight end, which limits the Bengals' ability to run a diverse, respected run game out of 12 personnel.
Insight pageRashod Bateman
PositiveUsage60:52
Mina Kimes highlights that Rashad Bateman is being moved around more in the offense, specifically noting that playing more in the slot could serve him well.
Insight pageRoman Wilson
NegativeRole2:22
Roman Wilson is competing for the WR3 spot and has shown verticality in practices, though it remains to be seen if that translates to game production. He is currently in a battle with Jeremy Bernard for playing time.
Insight pageTee Higgins
NegativeInjury37:19
Tee Higgins has struggled to stay on the field for a full season, and the Bengals' offense is described as completely different when he is absent.
Insight pageFull transcript
Episode Transcript
0:00Hey, Washington, D.C. Class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast.
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0:08Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look.
0:11Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up.
0:16It shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next.
0:20Visit your nearest Crocs store today. It's the Mina Kimes Show featuring Lenny, the only NFL podcast.
0:25One of the hosts thinks Pittman and Bernard sounds like a show about crime-fighting dogs.
0:29That's Lenny, I mean it times. We've got a few dog name receivers.
0:33We've got Boston also in this division. We also have John Ledyard here to help me preview the AFC North.
0:39John, the last division of my division previews. How you feeling?
0:43How you feeling with the season barreling towards us?
0:45I feel great. I feel great. I think all things considered.
0:49Preseason tape round one, pretty much in the books for me.
0:52Ready for preseason tape round two. Excited about that.
0:55Whenever we have new tape to watch. This division?
0:57Am I excited about this? I think I will.
1:00Let me answer that after we unpack it throughout the course of the show because I really don't know how to feel right now.
1:07I'm excited for the uncertainty that it brings, I think.
1:10We do rank the teams at the end. This one I feel better about ranking.
1:15I just did the NFC North. I don't know if you caught it by any chance, but I literally had a panic
1:21attack trying to rank the teams in the NFC North and I still, I don't feel good about it at all.
1:28This one, I think I've got a better feel for.
1:31So we're gonna talk about all these teams in length.
1:34I figured we would start with the Steelers, a team, you know, very well, a team that I haven't talked about that much.
1:41Um, you know, cause I've talked about the Ravens ton, the bangles top 10 offenses pod talked about the bangles earlier this
1:47week, but I feel like I haven't given the Steelers much their due.
1:51And as I was working through this, uh, I had a couple of feelings.
1:55I regretted not putting the Steelers defense in my top 10 after doing this.
2:00So I'm excited to discuss that with you. And I also found myself feeling some optimism around the moves that they've made on offense.
2:07Um, of course, Aaron Rogers remains the limiting factor.
2:10I feel comfortable saying that to this offense to some degree, but they have added around him in addition to DK Metcalf.
2:16Now you've got Michael Pittman Jr. Wide receiver three is a battle between Jeremy Bernard, uh, and Roman Wilson.
2:22And they've got Ben Skoranek tight end remains the same.
2:25Uh, we got Friermuth and supersized Washington. Uh, running back is different.
2:28Gainwell's out doubtles in, and then the offensive line has been reshuffled.
2:32Uh, so we've got now Troy Fautano's kicking over to the left side, McCormick, Frazier, right guard battle.
2:37And then Dylan Cook, Anna Tor hasn't played. All right.
2:40So let's just start off. I want to start off with the receiver group because that's the biggest change.
2:46Yeah. The biggest thing that I think is up in the air right now is that wide receiver three spot.
2:52Obviously, as you mentioned, Jeremy Bernard comes out as a great first preseason game has really good, like really pro ready in practices.
2:59And I think impress everyone. It takes a lot to get Aaron Rogers to not hate a rookie wide receiver.
3:05And he is so far not hated Jeremy Bernard.
3:08That's improvement. He hates Roman Wilson less than he's hated him in the past.
3:12So that's an improvement. So it seems like it's like what you want.
3:16If you were going to like drop this competition and say, what do you want it to look like in ideal sense?
3:23This is probably about as ideal. Both guys playing pretty well.
3:26They seem like they might be four deep. Pittman's been hurt and missed a lot of practice time.
3:31So it seems like it's moving in the right direction.
3:34And certainly both of those spots actually are going to matter a lot.
3:38Um, in Mike McCarthy's offense. Whereas in the past, we barely cared about who the Steelers wide receiver two was in the
3:45last couple of years, but this is a real offense.
3:48This is a grown person offense. And so. So I am excited to see what that looks like in Pittsburgh.
3:54Cause it's been so long. You know, we saw completion over the middle two, three, even in the first preseason game.
4:00It was crazy. I do want to get to the preseason and all the young quarterbacks because they kind of have like
4:07a log check right now, uh, behind Aaron Rogers, which is going to be interesting.
4:11But first I want to get back to, you know, we know Aaron Rogers is the quarterback.
4:16And we also know what Aaron Rogers is going to give you at this point in his career.
4:22It's going to be balls going to come out super quick, shallow depth of target.
4:26Uh, that's not changing opportunistically. He'll take some shots.
4:29You're not going to get a lot of movement.
4:32I would argue though, that the Steelers did a fantastic job in terms of this wide receiver group of building around this version of Aaron Rogers.
4:39That's kind of the overwhelming takeaway. Take away I had thinking about the Steelers offense.
4:44You go out and get Pittman jr. Who again, going back to what I said by Rogers short, maybe intermediate, not going
4:51to go over 15 yards very much. Michael Pittman Jr.
4:54Is great at that, right? Like that is his forte.
4:57He catches everything. He's excellent on hitches and digs and short, you know, he, I, I looked at the last three years
5:03on throws of 10 yards or less. He has a 79% catch rate, which is seventh in the NFL.
5:09Uh, he's top 10 in just about everything in that metric.
5:12So that already in itself, I think is a massive upgrade again, particularly for this version of Aaron Rogers.
5:18And then you alluded to this with Bernard. I mean, I kind of think he might be a good one.
5:24He might be the perfect draft pick again for this quarterback, what they need in this offense.
5:29I thought he looked excellent in the preseason game.
5:32I didn't get to it at all earlier, but I was looking at my notes.
5:36Um, I thought like he looked snappy. I thought he looked a little bit more sudden than maybe I'd give him credit for the yards after catch.
5:44You got, it was just like a little flare.
5:47He had, he had a big, uh, catch and run.
5:50You saw the toughness, the contact balance. So again, if we're thinking about this offense through the lens of like this version
5:57Aaron Rogers, ball's coming to count quit. Can you get yards after the catch?
6:01Can you be reliable? I feel like they kind of hit it out of the park in terms of building the right group of players.
6:08Yeah. And Roman Wilson's added some verticality in the practices at least.
6:12And we'll see if that manifests itself in any games that obviously they'll need.
6:16Metcalf is, is probably, he's barely, I don't know if he's practiced at all.
6:20Actually he's been, you know, been injured or undisclosed.
6:23I don't, you know, he said he'd be ready to go off the season word today.
6:28So we're just going to take him at his word for that.
6:32But how he fits into this thing is going to be interesting.
6:35Like he hasn't really been the most versatile player in the past.
6:39He's kind of, uh, this is how I win.
6:41And this is the only way that I win.
6:44And, and so I don't know that, I don't know that we're going to see this huge bump in production for him, but it's okay.
6:52If he is just has to fill a role and the other guys are more capable of stepping into specific roles themselves.
6:58I think the big question in this offense is the funniest one to ask is, is Aaron Rogers a good fit for it?
7:05Which seems crazy considering it's Mike McCarthy and considering the history of the two of them have together.
7:11Aaron Rogers hasn't wanted to be a quarterback who's dropped back with true pass sets and throwing the ball down the field
7:17and ripped it in the middle of the field.
7:20And that's not who he's wanted to be for a couple of years.
7:24Now he's really wanted to be a guy that as much as we make fun of last year's offense.
7:30And Arthur Smith certainly has his limitations as an offensive coordinator that were shown last year to Rogers wanted to play that way.
7:36He wanted to get the ball out quick. He wanted to throw to backs a bunch.
7:41He didn't want to get hit. He has not shown a great desire to drop back and rip the thing around the yard, the way that McCarthy was.
7:50Now people, give McCarthy a lot of credit for developing quarterbacks, but he's generally had elite quarterbacks.
7:55He's had Aaron Rogers. He's had Brett Favre. He's had Dak Prescott, especially mentally.
7:59He's had great quarterbacks. And I think that's where he's going to still have that part of it with Rogers.
8:05But in terms of how much Rogers wants to stand back there and go one, two, three through progressions, the way that
8:12Dak did when they were posting really good offensive seasons together in Dallas.
8:15I think that's a real question mark, whether he even wants to play that way.
8:20So that to me is the biggest question going into the season is whether Rogers actually wants to fit into McCarthy's offense anymore.
8:27Yeah. And if, if, if the presumption there is he wants to go one and then, um, can Mike McCarthy do a
8:34good job of scheming up first reads that generate yards after the catch?
8:37Um, I think he has the tools here. I think that's kind of what I'm saying.
8:42Like the receivers, I feel like can do this.
8:45Yeah. I think, yeah. Like, like, so, you know, I was going to talk about the offensive line, but the reality is
8:52even if this offensive line was a little bit better or a little bit worse, I don't think that's going to change Aaron Rogers style play.
8:59You know what I mean? Like, I'm not like, Oh, he'll hold onto the ball longer and take shots or work through to the backside.
9:07If the light, no, he's not like, I, I just, that's been the biggest change with Rogers is it's actually not like an arm strength thing.
9:15It's a willingness to stay in there. And, um, you know, I think the run game is maybe when I think about
9:21the offensive line and what I want to see, like this was a quietly pretty efficient running game last year.
9:27They're actually seventh and brushing DVO way in 22nd and passing DVO way.
9:31Um, and I think if they can maintain that level of rushing efficiency, then this still can be a death by a
9:38thousand cuts style offense with some tackle breakers and some quickness at the line of scrimmage.
9:43So that, that brings me back to the line.
9:45And I want to ask you about that. You know, I talked about how it was reshuffled.
9:50Um, Broderick Jones has been out. I found out a little bit of a, a little bit of rough on, uh, I
9:57thought, uh, week one, but I, I, I think he'll be fine.
10:01I thought he was very good last year. The interior, at least the left guard center are like really good.
10:07One of them may be more slept on interiors in football, but question marks on the right side.
10:12So do you feel this line can kind of hold serve compared to what we saw last year?
10:17And do you think that they continue running the football the way they did?
10:22Big, big questions for sure. Let's talk about the offensive line in terms of pass protection.
10:27It basically goes from about as easy of a system as you can play in the league, even though I think there's real talent here too.
10:34That isn't to say they can't do it. It's just a matter of, they went from one of the lowest number of
10:41true pass sets in the league to now an offense that presumably, if you look at Dallas and the years McCarthy was
10:48there, what will be one of the highest of true pass sets in the league?
10:52Now, maybe there's some change there to account for who's running the offense.
10:56And see Aaron Rodgers and all that stuff. So I'm not saying it won't be anything, but we saw right away in the first preseason game.
11:04Oh, the set points are different. The angles are different.
11:07The amount of help you're getting is different. Like we're not sliding every time.
11:11Like you better take a vertical set. Otherwise guys are going to scream around your edge in this office.
11:17So it's a different world for these guys. They are going to have to adjust to it.
11:22It's going to take time. And I think it's really going to take time at the tackle spots.
11:27That to me is where the adjustment is typically the biggest.
11:31So the good news is if, if he on a tour does come back and win that right tackle spot, which I
11:37think seems likely it has not been what broader.
11:40I mean, it's been about what you expect at this point for broader Jones and Dylan cook is much more of a backup player.
11:47When before he haunted her got hurt, he was playing well in practices.
11:51I have no idea if that's going to translate to the games right away.
11:55There will be bumps in the road. Surely for our time, who's switching sides and schemes.
12:00Like you said, most of the issues you saw in the other game wasn't like a physical athletic issue.
12:06It was like a, Oh, my pass set can't actually end here.
12:09Can't actually my first step. I can't actually be here in this offense and adjusting to that against game speed.
12:15I think there's going to be a lot of growing pains in past protection in the run game.
12:21I think they have a chance to be really successful.
12:24They have a lot of pieces that make sense.
12:26They're very athletic group. How much does McCarthy want to run the ball?
12:30That seems like it's kind of always the question with him, but that will continue to be the question moving forward.
12:37I think is how much does he, is he willing to be patient, rely on the run game?
12:42How successful are they? What does it look like when they throw the ball in early downs to put them in situations where they can run more?
12:50So those are the questions I think that are more likely to be answered when they run it.
12:56I think they'll be pretty good. I want to go back to the backup quarterbacks because right now there's forum or there's four quarterbacks behind Rogers.
13:03You have Mason Rudolph, Will Howard and Drew Aller.
13:06All of them are pretty good. The preseason seems unlikely to me that they'll be able to make.
13:11I mean, especially just looking around some of the quarterback situations around the league.
13:16I kind of feel like all three of them have a chance of getting picked up if they were to let any of them go.
13:23So, so we, I don't think I actually really even got to the dual or start or start, but the, his preseason performance.
13:30But I got to say as someone who was extremely out on him as a college prospect, I'm not.
13:36Put in the gold jacket on or even saying he's QB two, but he did look, I thought significantly better in the
13:42preseason than he, I thought he looked in college.
13:45Um, and maybe you can get it. I know you, you're, you dig in pretty to the prospects pretty hard.
13:51Maybe you have thoughts on that as well. But, um, someone here's the odd man out.
13:56So if you were the Steelers, like how would you prioritize these quarterbacks?
14:00And do you think Aller has a chance of jumping both Howard and Rudolph to be Aaron Rogers QB two?
14:06Or is that just too, too speculative? I think that's definitely possible if they were to trade Rudolph or, or do something
14:12with Rudolph, like where they, because to the Steelers, what's the benefit of, if you're just asking me this season, if Rogers
14:19goes down, Rudolph gives them the best chance to win.
14:22That's probably true. He actually played very well in this most recent preseason game.
14:26However, what they, they all did. You're right. And the Packers, the Packers defensive death may need to be another podcast topic
14:33for you, but I, I just don't know what the benefit is to Mason Rudolph playing if Rogers does go down.
14:39Like you might as well, but like, is Rudolph going to be so good?
14:43You know, maybe he's even comparable to Rogers, but do they think that going in?
14:48I don't know if they're going to believe that.
14:51So you might be in a position where you just want to see the young player.
14:55And if you're in that spot, then maybe Aller does beat out Howard.
14:59I think that's, you know, fairly, you know, that could definitely happen.
15:03Howard played well too. The biggest thing with Aller, I thought was he just played mentally fast, which was encouraging to me.
15:10I think that was the biggest thing that I was impressed by was his ability throw with anticipation.
15:15He looked comfortable and obviously real game situations, but at Penn state, the biggest knock was probably how uncomfortable he looked and
15:22anything resembling a stressful situation pretty much at any point.
15:25So I want to see way more, but certainly an encouraging step for all those guys.
15:29There's very possible that it finishes. Rogers, Rogers, Rogers, Aller Howard.
15:33I think in the preseason. Definitely a reason to keep watching the Steelers offense in the preseason because also Aaron Rogers is 42 years old.
15:40There's a pretty damn good chance. He doesn't play 17 plus games.
15:44So we could kind of joke about it now, but this could end up mattering a great deal.
15:49All right. Defensively. So I tease this. After doing this prep, taking a step back, looking at the players, thinking about the new coaching, the coaching change.
15:57I felt like I should have put this defense in the top 10.
16:01So let's just start there with that broad premise.
16:04So first, first, the players, largely the same up front.
16:07Right. But on the back end, now you have Jamel Dean as your second corner.
16:11Sante Samuel Jr. Who made some nice place in the preseason as well as depth.
16:16You added Jaquan Brisker, Sean Elliott's coming back from injury.
16:19And then you have a new defensive coordinator, Patrick Graham coming from Las Vegas.
16:23I mentioned this when I talked about the Raiders, but it was kind of stunning to look at the Raiders depth chart
16:30last year and how frankly untalented they were at certain positions and see how competent the defense that in and of itself
16:36is like quite a testament, I think, to Graham, who we can get into the nitty gritty of what he's bringing to this defense.
16:44But what do you think of my general premise here, which is like after taking a step back and thinking about this
16:50and thinking about some of the changes, this to me looks like it has the potential to be a top 10 unit.
16:57It tells me that you're a big Patrick Graham fan and that you are a believer in Patrick Graham, despite the fact
17:03that it hasn't been the results wise in situations that have had very little defensive talent.
17:08And I am as intrigued as you are by that.
17:11Yeah, that's it's a huge problem. He's not had a lot of talent in the places that he's been and he's gotten some things to league average.
17:19My biggest question is that he has not by the numbers been a great pressure creator as a defensive coordinator.
17:25He's also not had great players to do that with.
17:28So I'm curious about that part. Yes, he does now.
17:31He has a totally different type of group. He's been pretty good in terms of limiting explosives, big plays, things like that over the years.
17:39That excites me, especially with a better pressure group.
17:42So Patrick Graham has this. He's kind of like a Vero in Carolina, although Vero after this season, we'll see in that
17:48they have these sterling reputations and people around the league really like them.
17:52But when you look at the numbers and how their defensive finish, that hasn't really been there very often.
17:58And so you're wondering who's right. Is the reputation right or is they are the numbers right?
18:03And we're going to find out a lot this season for sure, because there's definitely enough talent to at least be like a good group.
18:10I don't know if they're going to be like a top five group.
18:14There's still the safety room is quite weak, I think.
18:17But I think there's enough talent here to be a pretty good defense.
18:21And even up front, they've got enough of the horses to be able to make a real impact in terms of the past game.
18:28The Steelers not being a great pressure team, believe it or not, they were like 25th in the league in pressure rate
18:35or something like that on third down last year.
18:38Seems almost impossible with the personnel that they have.
18:40But they've also been one of the fastest time to throw against teams in the league.
18:45Everybody knows what their defense is going to be.
18:48Their scheme has been as vanilla as possible in a league where everybody's moving away from that.
18:53Everybody knows where to go to get the ball with the ball.
18:57So it is not allowed for a lot of pressure production, sack production for guys that individually you would think would have it.
19:04So even Patrick Graham being a disguise-oriented coach who is going to live in that world for better or worse should help
19:10the front, I think, get to another level. So I think it's possible they're top 10.
19:15I think there's still some weaknesses to this team, but I think it's possible they're top 10.
19:20If they are, it's going to say a lot about Patrick Graham.
19:24Yeah, the Raiders last year were fifth in disguise coverage rate.
19:27Steelers, bottom 10, unsurprisingly. The Raiders were eighth in line of scrimmage drop rate, which you can get on next-gen stats, suggesting they leaned on simulated pressures.
19:35The Steelers didn't do that at a high rate either.
19:38And honestly, don't have to. I mean, they're kind of – you said it's been vanilla.
19:43Some of that has to do with the fact that they haven't had – they've had the talent at multiple positions to get away with that.
19:51And they still do up front. This is still – even with TJ Watt declining, the Steelers did draft very well there and have players ascending.
19:59Obviously, Herbig just got paid. Alex Highsmith. But then the defensive tackles as well.
20:03Derek Harmon is kind of one of – is like an obvious breakout candidate this season.
20:08Somebody who flashed and I think will have potential in Graham's scheme to make an impact up front.
20:13For me, whether or not this is a top 10 unit, perhaps even more so than Graham creating some complexity and, like
20:20you said, actually forcing defenses to hold on – or quarterbacks to hold on to the ball a little bit, is contingent on two things.
20:27One, health on the back end. I mentioned Jamel Dean and Jaquan Brisker.
20:31Those are good players when they're healthy. When they're healthy, right?
20:34So they got to be – if they're not healthy, then you see a pretty significant drop-off, I think, in a couple areas there.
20:42And then the linebacker position continues to be a source of frustration.
20:45Patrick Queen, Peyton Wilson, who's been better in coverage than he is against the run.
20:50Gosh, who was the third backer again? It's the reverse.
20:53I remember. Well, now it might be Landon Roberts again.
20:56Well, I think – I read that they're planning on playing Jalen Ramsey as, like, the star type, which is what actually
21:02hilariously he did early in his career in L.A.
21:05So maybe you won't see a lot of three-linebacker looks.
21:08But that linebacker position with Queen – I feel like Queen is kind of like the straw that starts to drink.
21:14Like, when he has a really awful game, this defense just cannot get off the field versus the run.
21:20And then when he plays well, they've been good overall.
21:23And I feel like that's just kind of the weather vane for this whole thing.
21:28He is the hypothetical skill set that every team wants and the disposition every team wants, but not the decision-making nor the finishing ability.
21:35And so it is – you are sort of on one end or the extreme or the other with Patrick Queen.
21:41And you're right. He is a barometer for a lot of how this thing goes.
21:46He has so many oh-so-close plays and coverage every single year, but just hasn't been able to figure out a way to be a great finisher.
21:53Tackling can be an adventure for him in open space.
21:56He also plays downhill, plays really physical, brings the energy, big communicator.
22:00He is super athletic and takes away a lot in coverage just because of how you can use him.
22:06You can mug him and drop him, and he can carry the seam and blanket guys.
22:11And a lot of times the ball doesn't go there and nobody notices, but he just gives you a lot of defensive
22:17flexibility because of how he can play. And in today's league, that matters a ton.
22:22With a defensive coordinator who can disguise and won't necessarily leave him in one spot all the time, that could be even more fun.
22:29So I think he's a real swing player for the season.
22:32There was real talk in the offseason. Will they trade him?
22:35Like, what will they do with him? He's probably not going to be back after this season, but if he has a great year, who knows?
22:43Like, there's, you know, kind of a lot of everybody.
22:46Nobody knows how to feel about Patrick Queen. That's just kind of the Patrick Queen story in general.
22:52Like, where do you rank him? How do you evaluate him?
22:55And I think so. He's a big question mark.
22:58Peyton Wilson, certainly a big question mark. I think it did not.
23:01I didn't think played great in the first preseason game.
23:04I think he only played like 12 snaps. He's a touchdowns type of player.
23:09So there's questions here for sure at the linebacker spot.
23:12It's not necessarily a question of who's going to play.
23:15It's more of a question of what's the ceiling?
23:17Does anybody actually, like, thrive in this defense? We've seen defensive systems transform linebackers.
23:21Has anybody thrive in this system, or is it more of the same with these guys in terms of the inconsistencies?
23:28Going back to just wrapping up here quickly a little bit, talking about the scheme before.
23:33You know, this is a Steelers defense that plays single high.
23:36I'm sure it's like seventh highest rate in the league.
23:39They play the fifth most cover one. Got a very good man corner in Joey Porter Jr.
23:44Who's waiting for a new contract. Graham, it's kind of hard, again, to decipher tendencies because he's really mixed it up at different locations.
23:51And as we've discussed, has dealt with talent deficiencies where I think, like, I'm not going to say, well, he played a
23:58lot of zone with the Raiders, so he's going to play a ton more zone.
24:02I think that's been more about his adaptability to the players at his disposal.
24:07What would you like to see more of from a coverage perspective with the Steelers defense?
24:11Like, what do you think they should be doing?
24:14Multiplicity, I think, is the biggest thing. And that's where you get into the Porter questions, I think, because when you are
24:21this streamlined, cover one heavy scheme, he's so valuable.
24:23The problem is that's not where the league is, and it's not where the league's going either.
24:28We're in an era where zone coverage and match-up zones and all this kind of stuff is at a premium.
24:34And you're just seeing, like, I mean, obviously there are situations and roles in which he can play that will really help a team.
24:42But the biggest thing is if everybody else is going to be kind of, you have to, you have to, if you're
24:48going to play the way Joey Porter Jr. plays best and you're going to commit yourself to being one of the man
24:55heaviest teams in the league, does everybody able to play that way?
24:58Because I know Jalen Ramsey ain't able to play that way.
25:02And I don't think Jamal Dean's able to play that way.
25:05So you look across the board to everybody else, Sante Samuel comes from, like, super zone-heavy schemes.
25:10And he's played great in the preseason. So we'll see.
25:13And I think Patrick Graham is going to be multiple.
25:16So I just don't know how that affects Joey Porter Jr.
25:20Because he's not been a very versatile player. He's an okay tackler who's had some weak moments.
25:25He's not a great run defender. He's not a terrible one.
25:28But he's gotten a little bit better. But he's not a difference maker there.
25:32He's been straight up bad in zone coverage a lot of his career.
25:36Just kind of, like, lethargic. Doesn't really see things happening.
25:39Seems disengaged. When he can press man, he's awesome.
25:42But he still can get a call for penalties all the time.
25:45So you just have this really... Does he fit the league today?
25:49Like, especially at a $30 million a year? You know, and I think that's where they're kind of at with why this contract's taken forever.
25:56Corners love him. Like, just talking to both current and former.
26:00Because, and I've learned this. Corners just really respect guys who get their hands on the football.
26:05Oh, yeah. And I've noticed... Who was I? Man, who was I talking to some corner this offseason?
26:10It wasn't someone I worked with. I can't... Now it's escaping me who it was.
26:15But I was asking him who he thought were some of the best corners in the league.
26:20And Porter Jr. And I was like, Porter Jr.?
26:23And he was like, gets his hands on the football.
26:26I was like, okay. But what about all the other stuff?
26:29And so I do think that also is going to inflate his contract a bit.
26:33Just ball production. And I think he's a good player.
26:36But, yeah. I think you raised some good points.
26:39Like, look. I think if Dean stays healthy... Elliott coming back is a big deal, too.
26:44I still feel pretty good about my top 10 defense take.
26:47If you can tell me that Brisker and Dean are going to be healthy...
26:51I think this is just the sheer talent alone in the front and the back end.
26:56But those are big ifs, right? Brisker played every snap last year.
27:00Before that, he's been in big injury question. So maybe it's trending in the right direction.
27:05Dean will get hurt four times this season with minor injuries.
27:08Your two teams. I know. He was so good last year, too.
27:12Yeah. All right. Let's do the Bengals. The Cincinnati Bengals, who...
27:15It's funny. When I did them in top 10 offenses, I was like, Do we even have to talk about this?
27:21What's there to talk about? It's the same. This is...
27:24It's good. It's great. It's... The dish you keep ordering at the restaurant because you know it's good and you're not going
27:31to be adventurous and it tastes the same every time.
27:34And then this offseason, we start hearing rumblings. No, this is going to be a...
27:38They're changing this offense. Talked about this earlier in the week.
27:42Preseason, they come out and they are very clearly trying to rep Joe Burrow under center.
27:46And I went back and forth with some Bengals fans about this because they were like, Well, that's just the preseason.
27:53And I was like, Yeah, because they're practicing it for the regular season.
27:57And also, if you go back and you look at Joe Burrow's comments from this offseason, it's obviously a part...
28:03It doesn't mean they're going to be the Rams or whatever, but...
28:06Or the Bears. But I ain't going to be 31st in under center right.
28:11I feel pretty confident saying that. The reason they're doing it, of course, is that as efficient as they were last two
28:17years when Burrow's played, they have not been particularly explosive.
28:20So I want to start by asking you what you think about that premise, which is this idea that Joe Burrow needs
28:27to be under center more for this offense to be more explosive.
28:30And also, it's not just a button you could smash and say, Cool, under center, boom, play action.
28:36The whole thing has to work together. Do we think that's something this unit is capable of?
28:41Do we think they have the players to execute it?
28:44What are your general takes on this potential tweak?
28:47Generally speaking, I agree that those are good ways to move.
28:50When you look at the league as a whole, the league is moving in that direction.
28:55The league's moving under center, under center dropbacks, under center play action, all these kinds of things are where the league's moving and certainly where...
29:02Now, that'll change again in a few years. I don't know how many people are out there.
29:07I was just talking with the NFC South on my podcast, and we're talking about whether Bryce Young can actually play the
29:14way Joe Burrow's been playing, even as Joe Burrow moves away from that or tries to move away, again, tries to move
29:21away from that to go under center and be more in this world, where the biggest benefit to me is that the
29:27multiplicity of how you look pre-snap and then what you can do in the run game off of that.
29:33To me, run game is all about diversity of scheme.
29:36You don't have that much scheme diversity when you're playing spread all the time.
29:40You just don't have much. When you're in the gun playing spread all the time, there's not as much that you can
29:47do in terms of how different your ways you're going to look.
29:50So you become way more attackable. Now, it's true that maybe teams won't send as much pressure when you're in spread looks
29:57because they have to account for more bodies outside the core of the formation.
30:01However, you're definitely limiting the amount of things you can get to offensively, and that really impacts the run game more than anything else.
30:08You don't have as much menu in the run game just because of those things.
30:13One of the big questions that they've got to be able to answer at this point is, are they able to build
30:19a diverse run game that complements Joe Burrow and even can be in certain games a thing that carries and produces real tangible offense for them?
30:27Or is it just going to be a button they put every so couple plays to basically throw off the scent of their passing attack?
30:35That, to me, isn't probably good enough in the NFL in 2026.
30:38So it's less about the pass game to me, although I think there could be benefits there, and more about does it
30:45open up anything for them to lean on in the run game?
30:49Yeah, I talked about Joe Burrow commenting on them needing to be more explosive.
30:53The one who really sounds excited about this, quotes-wise, is Chase Brown, their running back, who I think is a good back.
30:59And he's been efficient. Obviously, he gets to run into an F-ton of light boxes, but he's not been explosive.
31:05And he has said, I prefer to be, I want to be under center.
31:10Let's mix it up a little bit, guys. The funny thing is they got the Bucs week one, and assuming Vita Veya
31:16plays, it's actually a defense where you're probably better off spreading things around and throwing it around the yard on, right?
31:23So I'll be interested. It's possible that this little Bengals transformation or whatever, it might not actually look, you know what I mean?
31:29Like week one from an opponent standpoint, we might not see it.
31:33The other thing I'm curious about with them is whether they continue to lean into the two tight ends, which they really
31:40did at a high rate when Joe Burrow came back.
31:43I was kind of shocked how, and some of that was Teegan's missing a little bit of action, but 40%, just crazy.
31:49And they were really bad at it. Again, this is with Burrow back.
31:53Negative 0.1 EPA per play, negative 0.16 passing. Some of that had to do with some interceptions.
31:58So there was clearly a priority to do that, but it was not where they were best.
32:03So one thing I think it's worth noting is when they did play two tight ends last year, they faced very little base defenses.
32:11Deems did not respect them on the ground. Actually, the fourth lowest rate in the NFL, even lower than the Chiefs, which looks kind of a shocker.
32:19Eric All coming back from injury is fascinating to me in this regard.
32:23Because in 2024, as a rookie season, when he did play, they were very good with two tight ends on the field.
32:29Because he actually, unlike Gusecki, he's a glorified slot.
32:32He has that all-around skill set that you kind of have to have if you actually want to make teams respect you
32:39with two tight ends and respect the run. And he can do it.
32:42So thinking about Bengals and what would move the needle for them this year, other than we know Chase and Higgins, we
32:49don't have to talk about them, that to me, he is a player to monitor John as someone who could potentially give them a changeup.
32:57No doubt. And this is why I love coming on your podcast because I know we can talk about Eric All and
33:03I can not feel strange about that. It's huge.
33:06And whether, who wins? Eric All or Mike Gusecki?
33:09Because, you know, Oli and I talk about this a lot.
33:12The tight end being sort of the linchpin for how you want to play offensively.
33:16Not necessarily your ceiling offensively, but how many different ways can you play?
33:20And who plays at tight end determines how you want to play and how many different things you can get to in the course of a game.
33:28And I think for the Bengals, I kind of thought, okay, Eric All's back.
33:33They want to go under center more. Is this mean Mike Gusecki is going to get traded?
33:38Is he gone? And maybe this stuff that still happens.
33:41Who knows? But they've just decided to keep everybody at this point.
33:44So we'll see how it shakes out and who gets to play and how healthy.
33:49Obviously, his health has been a massive question mark going back to college.
33:53But if he's able to play a lot, yeah, he and Drew Sample would be a nice start kind of to some
33:59of that 12 personnel stuff that you're talking about in terms of making people respect you in the run game.
34:05You have to prove it if you're Cincinnati. That isn't going to happen for you.
34:10You've not been that type of team. And teams are going to question your commitment to wanting to be that type of team.
34:17And they'll make you be that type of team until your quarterback buys in too.
34:21That's the other thing. You can be that type of team and have mild success and lose a couple games.
34:27And Joe Burrow is going to be like, I'm out.
34:30Let's go back to what we were doing before.
34:33Teams are just going to force you to win that way over and over again until they prove probably half through half
34:40a season that they can win that way. So it's big questions.
34:43I think they still have enough talent to kind of get by and be good offense.
34:48I'll be fascinated to see what it looks like at midseason and where everybody's head's at kind of with the whole thing, assuming everybody can stay healthy, obviously.
34:56So yeah, it's probably one of the more fascinating things to watch once the regular season starts around the league right now.
35:03Totally. Bagels offensive line, also great continuity. I've been riding the or blowing the horn on the Bagels offensive line.
35:09It's actually fine now because I feel like that narrative of them being awful just stuck after Joe Burrow's early success.
35:15And everyone just kind of kept saying that. I believe that.
35:19However, didn't love seeing Orlando Brown Jr. get smoked in the preseason like that.
35:23That one's because... And I don't think he was...
35:26I do think he played fine last year at the end of the year.
35:30But I did love... That's something I'm monitoring because I didn't love seeing that.
35:34Well, it was Brown and Reisner. It was like, we just started to believe, guys.
35:39And you're going to come out here in the first couple of reps and have some ugly plays.
35:44So I think Fairchild is on his way to being a good player.
35:48I liked him in the pre-draft process too. Ted Karras is solid at center.
35:52You know, there's going to be physical battles that get him.
35:55But, you know, generally speaking, you take him over most center play in the league.
36:00Chargers would kill for this guy right now. You know, I think even the rookie depth, I'm really intrigued about Connor Liu.
36:06Yeah. And when... Not that it'll be this season, hopefully.
36:09And then Mims could be one of the better ascending right tackles in the league right now.
36:15So, you know, I think there are questions. It's not an elite group, but it's a group with less weaknesses.
36:21This is a weak link position group, I think, in general.
36:24Like offensive line, we're usually talking about how low the floor is for specific players rather than, oh, you have two guys with an elite ceiling.
36:32Yeah, but if the other three suck, you're probably still bad.
36:35So I think the fact that this group doesn't have anybody like that right now makes me feel better, especially considering the direction they're going offensively.
36:43I think that can be really helpful to them too.
36:46If there are more under center dropbacks or things like that, that could maybe be helpful to them as well.
36:52So it's a group in general offensively I feel pretty good about.
36:55And if they did have to pivot and go back to how they played in the past, they probably could still find moderate success.
37:03But because of where the defense has been at, they've had to be like the most elite offense in the entire league
37:09in order to have any semblance of success. So hopefully that changes this year too.
37:14I do wonder, by the way, if they have to hold on to Gesicki in part because they need T.
37:20Higgins insurance. I mean, this is just a completely different offense when he's off the field and he's struggled to stay on for the full season.
37:28So, all right, well, you mentioned the defense. Let's get to it.
37:31Bigger changes here. Up front, particularly, Boye Mafé is in.
37:34Dexter Lawrence, the biggest, literally the biggest change in the NFL maybe.
37:38Jonathan Allen, they drafted Cassius Howell. Linebacker remains the same.
37:41Get to that. And then on the back end, you had DJ Turner and Dex Hill breakout last season as actually like
37:47one of the better quarterback duos in football. Safety was an issue.
37:51So they went out and they signed a competent veteran safety, Brian Cook from Kansas City.
37:56They also had Kyle Dagger who made a couple of nice little plays in the, caught my eye, the preseason.
38:02All right. So I'm just going to start with my 30,000 foot take and I want you to, I think this team
38:08is going to be much better in pass defense.
38:11We don't have to, well, the numbers are interesting.
38:14The FTN Almanac, I was curious, Aaron mentioned this to me.
38:17So I read about it. Like they were way better in the second half of the season, but FTN, according to the
38:24research, teams that improve in the second half rarely stick.
38:27Like that improvement. However, they also added a lot of players.
38:30So I do think that can mitigate that to some degree.
38:33All right. Yeah. They were 32nd DVO in the first half, 13th, the second half.
38:38Ooh. So we can talk about that, but I genuinely, my premise is this, and I want to run this by you.
38:45I think this is going to be a much better pass defense.
38:48I really do. You can't add that much talent up front.
38:51You know, Mafei is not a star, but he's a good player.
38:55They added a lot of good players. I kind of like Ashton Howell too.
38:59Dexter Lawrence is a stud. The backend corners are awesome.
39:02We'll get to that. Cook is, he's a player.
39:05He's a veteran. He's, he's a solid player. However, I do think the run defense is still going to be a major issue.
39:12This was a team that could not tackle to save their life.
39:15And I do worry. Cook helps, but I do really feel worried that at some point they're going to regret not upgrading at linebacker.
39:23It's a huge question mark because Al Golden has shown us kind of who he wants to be, right?
39:28If there was ever a defensive mind that was going to lean into blitzing and sending people and trying to be confusing
39:35and all this stuff, it would have been last year's Al Golden, right?
39:39When he just didn't have the horses at all.
39:42So at least go down swinging. Nope. One of the lowest blitz rates in the entire league, one of the lowest, obviously
39:48pressure rates as a result of that in the entire league, but they just didn't send them.
39:53And they're not going to probably this year either because they went out and they said they did all the things that
40:00a team that's not going to send them will do in the offseason.
40:04They added tons of talent to their defensive front, said we need guys that are going to win 1v1s.
40:10We have hardly anybody right now. So they went out and they added Boy Mafe.
40:14They added Cassius Howell in the draft. They added Dexter Lawrence in a trade.
40:18They got Jonathan Allen in here. They basically said everybody who's playing snaps for us next year, like we want you to
40:25we want to have at least other options from you, if not just pure upgrades.
40:29So now we see right Shamar Stewart, Biles Murphy.
40:32These guys will still play. They will still be a part of their plans, but they are not putting all their eggs in that basket.
40:40They have basically failed so badly through the draft to draft defensively that they've had no choice but to go out and
40:46be the biggest spenders on defense in the offseason.
40:49Could that work? Probably to a degree. There's some teams of raising the floor from worst defense in the league to better than that.
40:56I agree with you because now they have guys that actually can win as a pass rusher up front when they do decide not to send everybody.
41:04There are two big questions to me. Dexter Lawrence, is he elite Dexter Lawrence or is he just good Dexter Lawrence?
41:11Because if he's elite Dexter Lawrence, now it's to every play and everybody else has 1v1s.
41:15In this defensive system, that will matter a lot because they're all looking for 1v1s.
41:20That's what they're trying to create. So they may sim, but they're simming to get to 1v1s up front.
41:26So if Lawrence can change the math, it helps everybody else be able to eat.
41:30The other question is, because this is not a defensive coordinator who's going to send them and use your linebackers as weapons,
41:37Demetrius Knight and Barrett Carter have to make a lot of plays in space.
41:41And let me tell you, last year, they were two of the worst space linebackers I've ever watched.
41:46So second year for both of them. Now, Knight's older as a rookie.
41:50So is this the year it comes together? Are they a little bit better?
41:54Maybe there's moments, you know, but those guys have to basically be able to do that in space.
42:00And because they couldn't last year, it allowed tons of yak against these guys and they just got killed by underneath stuff.
42:06So that has to be better this season. I, um, Blanc said, I really like when teams build their linebacking groups by
42:13putting a rookie next to a veteran or a young player, you know, like I just, I can't have two rookies and
42:20they, and the Bengals were left with no choice because their veterans were washed, completely washed.
42:24Wilson, right? But I, the bet that these two, at least one of them makes it leave.
42:30It's a bet, man. They also made a big bet.
42:33I just pulled this up because I want, I want to get the draft picks right.
42:37Cassius Howell was pick 41. Jacob Rodrigues was pick 43 and Josiah Trotter was pick 46.
42:42So that's something if either of those two players, um, looks awesome this season, I have to think that's one that might be talked about.
42:50And I like Howell. So maybe he is impactful and it doesn't matter, but that's just something to monitor there.
42:56I, I was surprised they didn't add a veteran, um, linebacker, you know, just, and it doesn't have to be one of
43:02the, you know, they need to go get Levin Lloyd, but they're, I was surprised they didn't try to add someone.
43:09Um, I will say though, if this offense is as good as it should be, and it should be top eight minimum, right?
43:16They might from a game script perspective, it might not matter that much.
43:19Um, in part because like you, we talked, you talked about it in the front is completely revamped and the backend should be quite good.
43:27I mean, or at least better. Um, the cornerback duo, I, one of the great splits in terms of teams attacking defenses
43:34was at the bangles where hold on. I pulled this cause it was made me laugh.
43:38They were third and DVOA versus receiver split wide last year and 32nd versus tight ends and 31st versus running backs.
43:45I love it when you can just tell the story of a team through like splits like that, right?
43:50That's great. Every offense on earth knew who to attack and who to avoid because the corners were awesome.
43:56DJ Turner and Dax Hill. Like they, they, they've really Dax, uh, after cam Taylor Britt got hurt, they, they had him play full-time outside.
44:04DJ Turner was excellent. Really, really a talented young duo and cook again, really does help shore up what was a massive,
44:10massive problem last year with this defense. So I do think this defense should be good against the past, but my concern
44:17is like, what happens when you play Buffalo? You know, like, I don't know.
44:21What happens when you play Baltimore? I, you know, you're in your own division.
44:25We'll get to them in a second. So I just, I feel like this defense is better.
44:30The past defense is going to be better, but I just do worry that there's still a glaring weakness.
44:36That's all. Better for sure. Um, the depth is still don't look, just don't close your eyes, uh, type stuff.
44:42But I really like Brian cook for them. Uh, I like somebody who can buzz down and erase the middle of the
44:49field with pure, pure speed at that position. Obviously, as you mentioned, they really need that.
44:54He'll run the alley and hit people. Um, Jordan battle will a hundred percent do that.
44:58Not a great athlete, not exactly a playmaker necessarily, but smart player communicator will run the eye and hit people.
45:04You need to be able to play from depth and tackle in this defense.
45:09Obviously that was a big weakness in the past.
45:11Still feel really tough about the, on the depth, like I said, but maybe to cardio Davis could give you a decent third, fourth option, a corner.
45:19Eventually the rookie third rounder. I thought he was overdrafted.
45:22Josh Newton kind of disappointed last year when he played.
45:25I thought, um, Turner could be a star. Uh, and if you can take the ball away, that would help obviously their defense a lot.
45:33Um, they kind of, them and the bears were the slowest time to pressure teams in the league, meaning that like took
45:39them forever to pressure the quarterback, but the bears like led the league in turnovers.
45:44And then there was the Bengals. So they, if they are going to be even a little bit better there and they
45:51get some takeaways, that would help them quite a bit.
45:54And I think they've raised their ceiling and ability to do that.
45:57So it's, it's an improved group for sure. But, uh, you know, and I think that that will be enough for them
46:04to, yeah, well, I'll save my prediction for how they're going to finish in this division, but they should be, as long
46:10as Burrow's healthy again, I think they will be back in the mix.
46:14Take a quick break and come back. Talk about the team.
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47:35All right, we're back. Talking, of course, about the Browns.
47:38No, I'm just kidding. The Ravens. Let's flip it and start with the defense.
47:42Here. I assume you watched the Ravens. Eagles preseason game or at least some of it.
47:47This is why I want to start here. Jesse Vinter.
47:50Just came out guns blazing in the breeze. This is to be one of the funniest tapes because I just didn't.
47:56There were a few defensive coordinators who just decided to go YOLO and some of them were like completely unsurprising.
48:02Of course, Brian Flores is going to britz the hell out of Jackson.
48:06But I did not foresee Jesse Vinter deciding to turn it the F up in the preseason with his defense.
48:12And that's without the starters. I've been very optimistic about this Ravens defense.
48:16But that to me raised some interesting questions, which is not only do they have some really cool depth that I thought you saw in that game.
48:24There might be some little tweaks to this defense scheme wise from what we saw with L.A.
48:29And I'm not trying to read too much into a preseason game, but I guess let's just start from the top line.
48:36Do you share my enthusiasm for this Ravens defense anticipating that they bounce back in a pretty big way?
48:41I don't know. And that seems like a really cop out answer, but it depends so much on two players, three players.
48:48Who are the hinges for you? I mean, Nandi Matabuike coming back from what some thought was a career ending neck injury.
48:54Is he anywhere close to the same player? Because I think that that's really important for them.
49:00Clayus Campbell is still a helpful player. Travis Jones is really good, especially for a nose tackle as a rusher.
49:06But if you're talking about difference makers, he needs to be that.
49:09Trey Anderson played 26% of snaps. He's older. Last season, he played 26% of snaps.
49:14He has these back slash core muscle, all these kinds of injuries.
49:17Are those truly a thing in the past for him?
49:20Is he able to be peak Trey Hendrickson that we saw two years ago?
49:25Is that the same player? And then Mike Green, I think, is the other player who just – because there's nothing outside Hendrickson on the edge.
49:32There's nothing in terms of pass rush ability right now.
49:35Does Mike Green get better in year two after this massively disappointing rookie season?
49:40Is that better? Is he a Zion young guy?
49:42I'm not a Zion young guy. So I don't necessarily think that he's going to give them the pass rush.
49:48He might be an okay player as part of the group.
49:52But I think the only – He's good against the run.
49:55Yeah, get against the run. Maybe some phone boost.
49:58Maybe he can kick inside. Maybe he can be a situational, like rotational piece.
50:02But I don't think he has the upside to give you the type of pass rush you need that maybe Green can provide and Matabuike can provide.
50:10So the big thing for the Ravens for years has been the pass rush not being good enough.
50:15I give them credit for going out and making a lot of moves to make it a priority and address it.
50:22But there are still a lot of question marks here, as there are when a team's trying to fix something that's been a weakness for a long time.
50:30Rarely do you just like crush it in one fell swoop.
50:33But there's a lot of questions here still going into the year.
50:37That will determine how good they are to me.
50:40I know there's other players you probably have questions about fulcrums-wise.
50:43But to go back to Matabuike, I agree, right?
50:46If he's 80% and above, you're feeling pretty damn good.
50:49Top 10 D tackle in the league. And Travis Jones is really good.
50:53Like Klai Scampbell will still give you good reps.
50:55I think, though, this connects to what I was saying earlier about the preseason.
50:59I swear to God, I'm not trying to read too much.
51:03What if Jesse Minter leans into chaos? That was just, you know what I mean?
51:07Because he comes from L.A., very high simulated pressure rate, which Baltimore, of course, has used this Mike McDonald.
51:13He's a Mike McDonald tree guy. Team that didn't blitz a lot.
51:17Had a lot of success when they would put the three pass rushers on the field and kick Tully inside, which I
51:23think they could do with maybe Tavius Robinson or Zion Young.
51:27But, like, what if this isn't just a, hey, let's get four.
51:30Let's get pressure with four team. Like, what if this isn't a front that is more Flores-y?
51:35Like, what if the change up here, understanding that they have a very strong defensive tackle group, is finding ways to get
51:42one-on-ones for Trey Hendrickson with simulated pressures or overloads?
51:45What if he's finding ways to not just send Kyle Hamilton, but some of these other second and third level defenders?
51:51I just, I was talking to Solak about this, too.
51:54Again, Jesse Mentor defense, we think, ton of zone.
51:57But what if he looks at this group and is like, hey, I've got the best man big nickel in the league in Hamilton.
52:04I have Wiggins, who's a press man corner. What if I actually change things up a little bit?
52:09I don't know. I just kind of, I was not convinced of that, but after I was thinking it through a little
52:16bit more, he has the pieces here, I think, to evolve his defense a little way, I think, in ways that could be interesting.
52:23Because I think while there are questions with guys coming in from injury and there's some aging players, Roquan Smith and Marlon
52:30Humphrey that we've got to talk about, there is enough talent here for him to try some different things on defense from what we've seen.
52:37Definitely enough talent for that. I think it would require like a little bit of a skill set change for some of the guys.
52:44But you mentioned Hamilton. That's a great starting point, right?
52:47I mean, one of the moves I like that went under the radar, I think, was adding Jalen Hawkins.
52:53I love this. Okay. You knew what I was going to say.
52:57I love this. Yes. Talk about it. I think he just gives you something you were missing defensively a little bit.
53:03And that almost everybody nowadays, I think, you want to have three safeties.
53:07Certainly, Mentor wants to have one. And it's especially helpful if one of your safeties has this really versatile skill set, which Kyle Hamilton does.
53:14So if you want to play him down, you have the option to play him down.
53:19But you don't want to be so predictable that he's going to go down all the time and the other guy's going
53:26to, you know, Malachi Starks in this case is just going to be sitting there high.
53:31You also probably feel like Malachi Starks, who I thought had better, some better corner traits, honestly, than safety traits in some ways.
53:38Because you also probably want to move him around and do some things with him.
53:42So enter when you have a guy who can play some linebacker, and like Kyle Hamilton can and can play on the
53:49edge, can play a lot of different roles. You get the opportunity to, like, have a guy back there as opposed to
53:55safety that can be sort of a rangy, ball hockey, cover type of guy that keeps the lid on everything, can make
54:02some plays on the ball while you do the fun stuff with the other guys up front.
54:07And yet he's not, like, totally deficient when you want to change it up with him every once in a while also.
54:14But for certain packages and looks, for Minter specifically, you need a guy like Hawkins.
54:18So I love that addition. I think that opens up some.
54:21Could we see Malachi Starks used in a different role this season because of that, at least in front of a few snaps?
54:28That'd be pretty fun. Do they have optionality if Marlon Humphries just cooked or he just is injured again?
54:34Could they put somebody else in the slot? That would be interesting, too.
54:38So there's just more ways they can play. See, I thought Marlon Humphries looked better outside last year than he did in the slot.
54:45So if you have Kyle Hamilton as your big nickel, then you can kick Humphries outside opposite Wiggins.
54:51Again, it's like a matchup thing, right? But even having those types of options puts the Ravens in pretty unusual territory.
54:57I mean, between Hawkins, Starks, and Hamilton, that's a pretty talented group of safeties.
55:01And like you said, Hawkins also brings a lot of Brazil.
55:04You saw that in New England, too. So yeah, I think Jesse Minter really has some interesting tools at his disposal here.
55:11You know, Hamilton gets compared to James a lot, right?
55:14Derwin James. But I think outside of him, this is a better group now and helps cover up for deficiencies at linebacker, right?
55:21Because I don't think Roquan's cooks. I really don't.
55:24I think he doesn't take on the run the way that he used to and doesn't have quite the same sideline to sideline speed.
55:31I think he's still a very smart player. He's still decent in coverage.
55:35The numbers back that up, but outside of him, it's thin.
55:38So I think just being able to live in big nickel, which should be the base for this team, is really helpful.
55:45I don't know. I think they're just talented. You know, there's questions.
55:48Like I said, you know, Awuzie would technically be your corner opposite, you know, rather than kicking Humphrey outside.
55:54Second linebacker. Right. And then much does hinge on two aging players in Hendrickson and Matabuike.
55:59But I just generally think part of the reason I have optimism is those aging players that I mentioned, all of them,
56:05they're not like being asked to carry an entire group.
56:08Like Travis Jones and Clace Campbell are really good.
56:11You know, so the rest of the secondary is really good with Humphrey.
56:15So I feel really good. I also feel really good about Jesse Minter, who was my pick for the coach of the year.
56:22I just think that dude has it. Yeah. Something about seeing those Ravens back guys come out and come flying.
56:28God, there was like a corner. Do you remember his name?
56:31You, you, Keon something? Was it Chandler? Did Chandler Rivers?
56:34No. Is that who you were thinking of? Not the nickel.
56:38Uh, Keon Martin. Oh, Keon Martin. Keon Martin. Holy mackerel.
56:41Oh, that dude was playing his ass off. That game.
56:44They got some crazy dudes. Minter's guys are always going to play crazy.
56:47And that's where I come back to Humphrey. And I think the biggest thing you have to be able to fly around.
56:54You have to be able to tackle in this defense.
56:57It's like so critical because they're going to drop and play in space a lot and they're not going to play man to man necessarily all the time.
57:05So you got to be able to come up and tackle people.
57:09Cam Hart, Tarheeb, still you think of these guys like those aren't household names, but they tackled and they flew around and
57:16they wanted to play some physical ball. And, you know, I think Humphrey's got to be able to tackle and that's going to be the biggest thing.
57:24It tackle numbers have fallen off the athleticism to Wayne.
57:27So that'll be my big question with him moving forward.
57:30The Ravens offense to me is a bigger mystery here.
57:33Um, not just from the Declan Doyle, everybody's new play caller.
57:36He's 29 years old. He comes from Chicago. The assumption and we've seen, you know, Lamar didn't play in the preseason, but
57:43Mar's going to be in her center. It's going to look more like Chicago wide zone play action.
57:48All that jazz. Fine. Right. Who's going to be on the field?
57:52That's what I want to know. Cause this is a team that has used.
57:5611 personnel, three wide receivers, like the lowest rate in football or close to it.
58:00Patrick Hart is gone. Isaiah likely is gone. What it like, what personnel groupings is the Ravens offense in 2026 going to measure in?
58:08Do they love Jacoby Lane, the rookie phenom so much that he gets on the field with Zay Flowers and Rashad Bateman
58:14is a Matthew Hibner, the tight end who's been flashing.
58:17Can he play credibly next to Marcus, Mark, Mark Andrews?
58:20Do they like two backs? I genuinely don't know, John, because there's so much change.
58:25And that's what we'll get to the offensive line in a second.
58:28But that just purely talking about the skill players.
58:31I don't I the Ravens. You could set and forget it.
58:3421 this percent 12. I don't know what this Ravens offense is going to look like right now.
58:40Yeah, very hard to tell based on looking at their group.
58:43You would just think, OK, Mark Andrews, there's no way you're counting him to play 100 percent of snaps the way that
58:50his career is kind of going at this point.
58:52Germs might as a block only guy who was like a tight end three.
58:57And I know it was a good room last year for the Bears, but he brought over.
59:02He knows, obviously, the Declan Doyle, like what Declan Doyle wants to do.
59:06So he's brought over some of that. He's going to play.
59:09But a lot kind of hinges on Matt Hibner, who has had a pretty good pretty pretty good offseason so far.
59:15I'm very intrigued by him. I mean, could it be like we get like 15 tight ends from this class that have
59:22like good years just because they're playing, even if their individual skill sets aren't amazing?
59:26It is it is back to the question we said before.
59:30The linchpin of how you want to play offensively or how many different ways you can play offensively is defined a lot
59:36by what you do with the tight end position.
59:39And they're in position to do a lot in the run game, maybe with the tight end position.
59:44Is that going to be good, though? And how much does Mark Andrews contribute to that?
59:49A lot of people have thought Mark Andrews would be long gone by now in Baltimore, that his tenure was over and
59:56they've continued to say, no, we want you back.
59:59We want you back. We want you back. Is he want to buy into this role and have a career renaissance, you
60:05know, kind of late in the game here would be very interesting to see.
60:09I think that they are still going to play a lot of 12 personnel.
60:14But I agree with you that even though he coming coming from this Ben Johnson space, we're like, obviously, they use a lot of 12 personnel.
60:21Yeah, I would agree with you. They haven't really built the roster in a way that makes you think, oh, clearly this
60:28team's going to be like heavy personnel, 12 personnel to every team.
60:32And they have all these young wideouts they like.
60:34So maybe Declan Doyle is going to zig, whereas the guy that he worked with before is ag.
60:40I don't know. Are you buying the... Jacoby Lane is got to be one of the more hyped rookies in recent history.
60:46And obviously he looked awesome. But, you know, it's a preseason.
60:50It's an interesting group, right? So if he is...
60:52Because Rashad Bateman is the ex, has been the ex in this offense.
60:56Zay Flowers, they move around, just got paid. Lane would hypothetically be competing with Bateman.
61:01That's... It's... I mean, like, do you... Try to get all three of those in the field?
61:06Or is there another player that you want in the mix?
61:09I imagine that would be your one, two, three.
61:12I don't even know how you would necessarily configure it, though.
61:15Bateman, by the way, I did see had some comments about how he's being moved around a bit more, which is something that intrigued me personally.
61:23Because I actually think that could serve him well to be more in the slot, for example.
61:28I think everybody's going to move around. That's my guess here.
61:31I am really torn on this one because Jacoby Lane, I thought, had crazy talent when I watched him in the pre-draft process.
61:38But he was so inconsistent. He dropped the ball all the time.
61:42He would mess up routes. He would get in, like, these...
61:45It was kind of Pickens-esque. I think that was who I talked about him being, like, compared to pre-draft.
61:51But without, like, enough of the high-end stuff, I think there were games where you'd be like, oh my gosh, this guy's, like, unbelievable.
61:58I thought he was way more talented. I mean, some of the catches were crazy.
62:03But, like, there was definitely, like, a lot of inconsistencies.
62:06And I found myself frustrated by him, like, not seeming to always know the routes and, you know, just sort of some of those things.
62:13So, talent-wise, if they can get him to buy in, obviously, that would be huge because I think he's got a ton of talent.
62:20I really liked Elijah Surratt for all the reasons I didn't really like Jacoby Lane.
62:25And he's had a good preseason, too. That's just been kind of over...
62:29It's like the Casey Conception-Boston thing I'm sure we'll get to in a little bit where, like, who's having the better preseason?
62:35You know, I think, obviously, in this case, Lane has gotten more buzz.
62:39But Surratt's played pretty well, too. And so, I am really interested in what he brings to the offense.
62:45I would rather see those guys play than Devontae's Walker.
62:48We'll see how it shakes out in the season.
62:51Zay Flowers and Bateman are probably going to be your top two.
62:54But again, if you want to play 11, I would be really interested in this.
62:59Also, if you want to play 11, but you kind of want to do a little 12 stuff, is Elijah Surratt helpful to you?
63:06Like, he's a bigger body. He's a big dude across the board.
63:10Yeah. That's a huge receiving group. Maybe Lane blocks for you.
63:13Anyway, I think it's going to be pretty fascinating to see what they decide to do with this personnel.
63:19I mean, I was going back and watching some Ravens reps.
63:22And just like, Patrick Ricard was so fundamental to this offense.
63:25Kind of crazy. They have a Lucas Scott as their pullback.
63:29But yeah, the line we should address because that's the news of the day.
63:33Danny Pinter was in line to start. He was carted off today.
63:36They did sign Ethan Posich, who is still recovering from Achilles, but is on track to play.
63:42That signing now looks to be pretty key. He tackles a strength.
63:45They revamped the guard position, drafting Vanga Ioane, which is the chalkiest pick of the NFL draft.
63:50And then they brought back old friend John Simpson, who had a bit of a down year last year, but has been,
63:57you know, at least a reliable veteran guard. You know, the center obviously is concerning because we just, Posich is coming off of the injury.
64:04I tend not to be terribly worried. I mean, we haven't even talked about Lamar Jackson, but I kind of felt like
64:11last year, the fact that he took a million sacks had a lot more to do with Lamar Jackson than anything and his health.
64:18And if he's healthy, I don't, I'm not too worried about the interior of this offensive line.
64:23Yeah, I'm worried about it, but I agree with you that it's probably in a better place than it was last year
64:30because I think the guard play was so bad last year that there's no way you can be as bad this year.
64:36Ioane is going to have growing pains of a rookie probably, although I feel really good about him.
64:42I absolutely loved him as a prospect. You know, if it is Posich, which it seems like it is at this point
64:49now, there's real limitations there, you know, even from an evaluation perspective, just how they might want to play.
64:54Like, I just don't know that he's that guy.
64:57If you look at the guys who now assuming the offense is going to be similar to what the run schemes have
65:04looked like in the past, that athleticism at this position has been really valuable.
65:08And I don't know that in year 11 coming off injuries, he's kind of declined from being that guy.
65:13And he already has like a different body type too.
65:16So questions there. And then John Simpson's a mauler.
65:19He definitely can catch people at times and you like things about him and the temperament that he brings to.
65:25One of those guys they probably feel never should have left in the first place just because of the mentality of the player.
65:32There are physical limitations, athletic limitations here too. Definitely a phone booth type player.
65:36So I think that they're probably not amazing, but they should be better than last year.
65:41I know people, some people are really high on Linderbaum and think that's just like a loss they can't get over.
65:47I actually don't think Linderbaum was that great last year in pass protection.
65:51And I think ultimately your scheme is, I probably have a little bit of a different opinion on Linderbaum.
65:57I think he's a fine player and there's things he can really help you with in the run game.
66:03But in terms of your drop back offense, I don't think that's going to be the biggest loss in the world.
66:09At the same time, I don't think that they upgraded to like stars yet either.
66:14So I think it'll be a group that's okay, but probably we're still asking questions about and maybe aren't quite on the level.
66:20Now, I will say this. If the offense is similar in terms of the pass game designs to what Ben Johnson ran
66:27in Chicago, that group has helped out a lot.
66:30So we'll see if it ends up being similar.
66:32Yeah, I think that's what I'm interested in seeing.
66:35Like if they come out, we see that under center zone blocking offense that we all expect.
66:40How does this group play together? What does it look like?
66:44I think the tackles can certainly execute that. That's where you obviously would have liked Linderbaum more so than the drop back game.
66:51The Ravens have been really good at that, even as though their offense has been...
66:55It's been a lot of things in Lamar Jackson's time.
66:58But when they have executed the under center zone blocking stuff, it's looked fine.
67:02Derek Henry's not as efficient as he's been at times in his career, but I don't think showed any meaningful signs of
67:09decline to the point where you start to worry about it.
67:12So I think, you know, I don't want to brush over the Lamar down year because I just...
67:18And I don't want to say, well, he was hurt and let's write that all off.
67:22But like so much of it was because he wasn't moving well.
67:26Like the sacks, the lack of escapability, the unwillingness to run, the way it changed, the way defense is played.
67:32So he seems perfectly healthy. He has been around this offseason, which is different.
67:36So I don't want to like look at this with two rose-colored glasses because like I said, there's a lot of moving
67:43pieces in this offense, a lot of unknowns. But if Jackson is back to even like 80% of what he was in 2024, it's going to be fine.
67:51Jackson's had a different offensive coordinator two other times in his career where it changed.
67:56Do you know what happened those seasons? He won MVP in 2019, his first year with Greg Roman.
68:01He won MVP in 2023, his first year with Todd Munkin.
68:04This offense also is great for him. Like I've been doing, can Jalen Hurts do it?
68:09Can Jane Daniels do it? Like everybody, you know, talking about because everyone's moving in this direction.
68:14We already know he can do it. Lamar, he's great at throwing.
68:18He's an incredible play action quarterback. He's incredible at throwing over the middle of the field.
68:23He's incredible. I'm not worried about that. You're exactly right on that.
68:26That's a key point, I think. He's like the most adaptable quarterback in the league and nobody talks about that.
68:32Why do we not talk? I mean, he is truly, no matter what system you put him in, no matter what you
68:39ask him, he figures it out and he plays it not just a good level, an MVP level.
68:44I have no reason to believe that won't happen if he's healthy again this season.
68:49So I could not feel better about Lamar. Especially the middle of the field aspect.
68:53Like those are his best throws in his arsenal.
68:56So going back to college. Yeah. So a lot of moving parts there.
69:00New coordinator. Could look a little bit wonky at first as the offensive line, you know, the center's coming back like right where it's easing.
69:08We'll see how that goes. But I think it should be fine.
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71:53I spent a decent amount of time on the offense on Tuesday because this is the quarterback competition.
71:59I guess we could start there. I just can't fathom getting horribly worked up.
72:03I can tell you're excited about this. Well, I'm just thinking TV segments where people are like, it has to be this.
72:09I'm like, who? Not who cares. But I can't fathom having a strong emotion about this.
72:14Yeah. And I'm with you. I don't have one either.
72:17You know, I think Shador probably throws a little bit better than Watson at this point.
72:22I'd rather see him. Yeah. No. Because if Watson plays well, what happens?
72:26What happens? You have to sign him. There's no point.
72:29He's not going to play. There's no point. And even Watson playing well at this point is like him getting the ball
72:35out quickly and being like a point guard. Because you saw in the preseason game, he looks the same that he did before the injury.
72:43He's not going to push the ball down the field.
72:46You can see him passing up throws that he made earlier in his career.
72:50So maybe it's more efficient. Maybe it looks a little better.
72:53Maybe the ball comes out fast. Fine. But like, what's the point?
72:57I agree. Not much point. And I don't know that either of these guys are going to be the answer long term.
73:04I mean, obviously, Watson won't be. I don't believe that Sanders is either.
73:08So I don't think it's so much lost if you don't play Sanders.
73:12But from a process perspective, no clue why you wouldn't play Sanders just to figure out what you have.
73:17You did draft him, even if you apparently don't like him.
73:21You know, Gabriel looked awful. So, you know, what does he ever figure into this mix?
73:25You know, I know they were saying on other shows, let's do like tailing green.
73:30Does he get in this mix? Go ahead. I don't care.
73:33Like by the end of the season, let's see it all.
73:36You know, might as well. But the whole story of the season for the Browns is Quinchon Judkins, Denzel Boston, Casey Conception, Harold Fannin, Spencer Fano.
73:44Like that's the season. Those four guys. Before people started to dunk on me for saying that the Browns for Corvac away.
73:51I legitimately like all of these young. Well, the line is still TBD and we can talk about that.
73:57Yeah. The skill players, though, are fun, man. Like you took two receivers in this draft and it looks like you hit on both.
74:04I liked both of them. Bannon Jr. Is awesome.
74:07We already saw that. Judkins was extremely. Dylan Sampson, who was what, fourth round last year?
74:11Super useful as a third round back. Super useful as a third round back.
74:16To me, you know, I'm not like just saying it'd be like Boston Conception.
74:20It's over. You got A.J. Brown and Devontae Smith here or whatever.
74:23I'm just saying they look promising and fun and they look so far like they did in college.
74:29The offensive line. So if the big question is like, can this offense be appealing to a young quarterback next year?
74:35The real question is probably the offensive line. You talked about Spencer Fano playing left tackle.
74:40They changed a lot. I'm still not quite sure what the exact configuration will be.
74:44I think, I mean, Titus Howard can play right tackle.
74:47Okay. Better pass protecting than run blocking. The interior is going to be some mixture of Zion Johnson, Elton Jenkins, better as
74:54guard, but they've got him playing center. Tevin Jenkins, who's struggled with health.
74:58So I don't really know how that's going to shake out.
75:01But I do think, yeah, I know. If I think if Fano looks good, then you're, you're, you feel pretty good about next year.
75:08Yeah. That's the key. Cause nobody else here. I mean, it would, you would love if Zion Johnson's potential was finally recognized here.
75:15Surely that's actually a reclamation project or reclamation project that they would probably say this one kind of matters to us.
75:22That'd be really great to have him, especially with what they signed him for, like that they could get him.
75:28But I, I, I mean, it's the biggest Zion Johnson fan ever coming out of college.
75:32I absolutely loved him. I, I have given up hope.
75:35I have thrown in the towel and that last year was the final, you know, in the coffin for me with that Jenkins, obviously older and some injuries.
75:44Tevin Jenkins, I think probably, or Elton Jenkins, that was a Tevin Jenkins, probably a stopgap type of player more viewed as,
75:50and Titus Howard, obviously, you know, an older player as well going into year eight.
75:55So, you know, there's, they're still looking for the long-term pieces.
75:58Maybe Austin Barber, who I think was the third round pick for them is get some chances at right tackle this season too.
76:05We'll see. And you know, Howard's had some injuries in the past.
76:09And so maybe he looks like he can be a reasonable star.
76:12I thought he could be like a decent starter type of player in the league.
76:17I kind of, I liked that pick too. I was a little lower on Fano.
76:21His, his first game was interesting. There were some good things.
76:25There were some things that I think will get him into trouble against better players, but you know, the season's all about developing him.
76:32I thought conception was the best receiver in the draft in terms of like the star potential upside.
76:37If Tate was a little safer, those two guys were easily my one, two in the class.
76:42Yeah. Um, Boston, I really liked, I like Boston.
76:45He grew on me a lot through the process.
76:48Both those guys, I think will be studs. So I'm excited about the pieces just like you are.
76:53We got to see it in real games. You know, I don't want to get too over the top about it, but
77:00at the same time, like, it's just good to have like young offensive pieces.
77:04And Harold Fannin is one of the most interesting because at first glance, you would, you would be like, is he actually
77:11fit where the league's going at this position kind of thing?
77:14But then you watch him last year, like he actually blocks, like he gets after people.
77:19And I don't know whether he's going to have to do it a ton.
77:23And he might always need to be like in the right offense for him.
77:27But I think there's a little more to him than meets the eye too.
77:31Actually don't even know. I guess Jack stole my second time with Joku gun.
77:36Yeah. I don't know. No clue. I do love Fannin Jr.
77:39The other thing I'd like is Todd Bunkin. I think he's a really good play caller.
77:44And I think he, we already saw that with, he seems to found his favorite new toy in Concepcion, who's gotten a
77:50lot of the Zay Flower comps, Zay Flowers comps, pardon me.
77:54And I think if he uses him anything like how he used Zay Flowers in Baltimore, that's a total win for this offense.
78:01Maybe, well, I was going to say, we're talking about the Steelers quarterbacks.
78:04I mean, I think Mason Rudolph would be better in this, like more productive for them than the quarterbacks on the roster.
78:11I really do. Yeah, I agree. I agree. That's crazy, but I agree.
78:15The Sanders internet came after me last year. And at this point, I'm like, fine.
78:20It's fine. I would rather see him than Watson.
78:22But it's just, what we saw, like there just doesn't, it's still, he didn't show any signs of speeding up, which was the thing I wanted to see.
78:31He has a better arm. He's willing to, at least he attempted some good throws in the game.
78:36But yeah, it's, I think, and this is what I said on Tuesday, for me, the only question is like, can this,
78:43can you ensure that you're developing these young players right now with the quarterback play to set things up?
78:48The defense should be very good again, even after losing Myles Garrett.
78:52Jared Verse is in opposite Alex Wright slash Isaiah McGuire.
78:55Mason Graham, I thought, showed some flashes and improvement as the year went along.
78:59Malik Collins is still hurt. That sucks because he was really good.
79:03Yeah. Uh, Carson Schlesinger, your defensive rookie of the year is now going to be paired with Quincy Williams, reuniting with, oh,
79:09by the way, the new defensive coordinator, Mike Ruenberg from last seen Atlanta.
79:13Uh, back end, very fun trio of safeties, Grant Delpit, Roddy Hickman, and Emmanuel McNeil Warren, who they drafted.
79:19And then corners, you have Denzel Ward, Tyson Campbell, and then I guess Miles Harden probably going to play nickel.
79:25Um, so I, I mentioned the new defensive coordinator, you know, this was such a distinct defense with Jim Schwartz, right?
79:31Played so much single high, particularly man coverage. Uh, I think the first question is whether or not it'll look the same without shorts and without Garrett.
79:39Rutenberg coming from Atlanta and New York kind of think it will.
79:43Um, and I kind of think that's fine. I do wonder if maybe they'll turn up the blitz a little bit more
79:50without Garrett, but on the back end with Ward and Campbell and these safeties, they have the horses to do it.
79:56Um, yeah, I, I am so curious to see what schematically things look like because this was such a, I mean, every,
80:03Miles Garrett changed everything about this team. Like, right.
80:05I mean, they were the fastest time to throw against the Browns.
80:09Like their fastest, they were, you know, one of these teams that you change your scheme for, you change what you did
80:15in protection and Jared versus a really good player.
80:18He just isn't that type of player. That's why the Rams were willing to move on from, even though they love him
80:25is because he just doesn't tilt the way that Miles Garrett tilts, tilts game plans.
80:29And so how much of a ripple effect of that ever, everybody else we're going to see.
80:34Uh, I know the most important player on the defense this season to me, other than verse and Swessinger, if we just
80:41say those guys are going to be who you expect them to be is Mason Graham.
80:46Um, because they obviously took him really high. That's a really valuable pick.
80:50I think, you know, that's a fine pick. It was kind of my take at the time.
80:55I don't think he's necessarily in the ilk of players who typically get drafted in that range at this position, but maybe
81:01that was like, that doesn't mean he won't still be like a helpful player for them.
81:06I think he looked as last year. He can be a solid player for them.
81:11I don't know how high the ceiling is. McCollins, you mentioned his hurt, Emily Collins.
81:15And, you know, he was really good last year.
81:18He's older and he seems to toggle between atrocious and great seasons like crazy.
81:22So I don't know what to expect when he comes back, but it's not a group that's like devoid of pass rush talent.
81:29Now that they've lost a mouse Garrett, they still have some guys.
81:33They just don't have the tilter. And if Graham and verse are beast together and Collins comes back and provide something, they'll still be a pretty dangerous group.
81:41But I don't think they'll be on the level of where they were last year.
81:46And I think Quincy Williams could add something to that if they decide to live more in the pressure world.
81:52Last year, if you want to buy what Atlanta did, they were like a really versatile, diverse, move people around.
81:58Quincy Williams could he be the guy playing the Caden Ellis role if they do something like that.
82:03Yeah, I think there's a world in which that happens.
82:06I just don't know that it's like I feel like as confident about it as I did, you know, coming out of
82:13watching Atlanta last year that they'll be able to replicate those things.
82:16So definitely a good group. I don't think they'll be quite as dominant as they've been with Garrett.
82:22Yeah, I took them out of my top 10, but I think that they're I have them in the 10 to 15 range.
82:29So it's still a good defense. You know, whether or not they're great, Graham is a great, I think a really good player to focus on.
82:36And but I do I think swings on Jared verse a little bit.
82:40Because, you know. Think like he in LA. It's so funny, man.
82:44When the trade happened, the Garrett trade, he was almost talked about like as a throw, which is such a contrast from how he was talked about.
82:52His rookie season is like the next great pass rusher.
82:55I personally feel the truth is somewhere in between closer to being great than the throw.
83:00He's certainly not throwing. So I don't want to I want to walk that back a little bit.
83:05He's not miles Garrett. So I think the question though is, is he a top 10 to 15?
83:11Maybe 10? Let's say 10. 10 pass rusher in this league.
83:14And I actually think that's a little unknown because I think his game, it felt like it flatlined a little bit last year.
83:21You know, it's very oriented on power, obviously. Yes.
83:24Which is unusual for that position. Very unusual. And I think my question for him is like, is there another level to be unlocked?
83:31Because the other thing in LA he benefited from was playing behind next to very good.
83:36The rest of the Rams team's line was very good.
83:39They're not lead. There was no Miles Garrett, but like Kobe Turner, Breen Fisk, Boone Ford, Byron Young's really good group.
83:45He didn't get double teams that much. So I do wonder if he can, in this new situation, be the kind of
83:52player maybe that like his rookie year foretold. I don't know.
83:55I think that he is a very good player.
83:58I had him 10th in my edge rankings. I think he's a very good player.
84:02Oh, I said it 10 and you're probably thinking like, oh, right there.
84:06Yeah. Okay. Yes. For the edge guys, yeah. 10th.
84:09I, my biggest thing with him is that he is a pocket compressor.
84:13So people are going to see these, these pressure numbers and there, a lot of them are proximity pressures.
84:18Now those can still be valuable, but he has not cleared the blocker on a lot of his pressures necessarily.
84:24He's compressing. And so he's therefore close to the quarterback, but there's a blocker between him and the quarterback.
84:30Is that as threatening a type of pressure as pressures that have cleared the blocker and are impending hits on the quarterback?
84:37To me, probably not. So some of the pressure numbers for him, when you watch the tape, you're like, hmm, yeah, this is valuable.
84:44The most value that this position could provide is by truly beating fully the guy and hitting the quarterback.
84:50Whereas a lot of the time with verse, he is providing more of a compression type of pressure that works really well.
84:56When you have the other pieces on the defensive line to compliment him.
85:00I don't know that they have all those pieces right now, but could they get them?
85:05Yes. He's also a monster against the run. He's so physical.
85:08He's a tone setter. He's an emotional leader and tangibles through the roof.
85:12So there's a lot of other things that he brings that are really valuable.
85:16What the Rams looked at is they just looked at him and said to be a pastor in this league that we've
85:23like to get to where we're going. When we have the opportunity to get the best guy, even if he's older, we're
85:30willing to throw you into that deal, put you in that deal, even though we'd love to keep you just because his
85:36upside, what he provides in terms of the 1v1 stuff is just so much greater.
85:41And when we get in the playoffs, every year we talk about it with the teams that why did the Bills not get to the finish line?
85:49Why did the Ravens not get to the finish line?
85:52They didn't have Chris Jones. The Chiefs had him.
85:54It makes such a difference. And they just think they found that caliber player with Garrett.
85:59Obviously, you know, that's why they were willing to do the deal and the Browns are going to get a good player, but just not the same caliber.
86:08Stylistically so different. And you talked earlier about like how the Browns with Garrett face the most quick throws, quick game in the NFL.
86:15That's going to change. And so it's going to, and that kind of also cuts back to the man coverage question.
86:21More is going to be asked out of everyone else on the Browns defense, even though I believe verse is a good player.
86:28And I think they're still going to be great in run defense.
86:32Structurally, that's interesting because they played a lot of heavy boxes.
86:35And we'll see if that continues with Robert. But yeah, I think it's just everyone else kind of has to be a
86:42little bit better to sustain top 10 play from the unit.
86:45And we'll see. I think they've got young talent.
86:48Obviously, I've mentioned a lot of the players I like.
86:51I like the safety group. I do like McNeil Warren.
86:54He was a struggle bus in the preseason. I went back and watched his reps just specifically out of curiosity.
87:00And he was definitely the bright lights, which may sound small school, all that.
87:04But he was taking some bad angles. He had a real bad on the explosive run, a really bad play.
87:10But you saw why they're enticed by him, which is the athleticism.
87:13He moves different. He is big and fast. And I think we'll be a good player.
87:18It just might take a second for him, but I'm still optimistic.
87:22Yes, he's going to be maybe one of the worst rookies, I would guess.
87:26But I think long term, there's still a future there to get excited about.
87:30Just an interesting one, too, because they're, again, they're very talented.
87:34I mean, Grant Delpit's like such a beast. And no one talks about him.
87:38And Hickman's good. I mean, they don't need to play.
87:41They don't need to thrust McNeil Warren into action right away, which is a privilege.
87:45It's a good team. All right. It's a good team, but it's not a great team.
87:50I doubt either of us have the Browns as our best team in the division.
87:55I'm going to go first here. It sounds like we're going to be different.
87:59I'm guessing based on the tenor of this conversation, we might end up with some different rankings.
88:04I am going to go Ravens, Bengals, Steelers, Browns.
88:07That's how I have it. I thought you were going to have the Bengals above them.
88:11I just was getting that vibe that you sounded so skeptical of the Ravens in our conversation.
88:17I'm skeptical of the O-line, I think, in some ways, especially if Ronnie Stanley goes down.
88:21So that could derail things some. Oh, yeah. But I just trust Lamar so much.
88:26Mina, that's the big thing. I just think he's going to be good.
88:30If he's healthy, and if he's not healthy, they're not going to win.
88:34So I'll be wrong. But if he's healthy, yeah.
88:36Yeah, I just think he's going to figure it out.
88:39He and Declan Doyle, I think enough of them that they're going to figure it out and be good enough.
88:45And I still feel like the Bengals have downside, too.
88:48And I'm just tired of getting burnt by him, frankly.
88:51Joe Burrow misses every other season. I'm not getting burnt by him.
88:55So I just don't know what to think of him still either.
88:59So I think all these teams have questions. But I'm with you on the mentor thing, too.
89:04And I'm with you on the Declan Doyle and Lamar Jackson thing.
89:07And to me, that is the biggest differentiator when you talk about quarterback and then coaching being the two most important things in the league.
89:15I think I'm more likely to bet on what I don't know fully, but I believe in in Baltimore in terms of
89:21how they built the thing than what I've seen and don't necessarily believe into that level, at least in terms of coaching
89:28with the Bengals and what I have way more questions about with the Steelers to over them.
89:33So, yeah, I actually my struggle is more between Bengals or Steelers for two, three.
89:38Really? Because I think the Bengals floor just ends up being crazy low all the time.
89:43But I ultimately don't believe in the Steelers. I actually, if doing this exercise was higher on the Steelers than I was
89:49before, because I was like, I really like this receiver group.
89:52And I think this defense should have been top 10.
89:55I just feel the quarterback is just a limiting factor.
89:58And it might be a limiting factor that doesn't end up showing itself until, you know, postseason facing the wrong team.
90:05It is. But it is what it is. Yeah.
90:07You've got two of the best in the division.
90:10My biggest curiosity with the Steelers is just they have been, I think, schematically.
90:14And I've been saying this for years. I know people don't like to criticize Mike Thompson, but they have been schematically one
90:21of the most basic and behind the times teams in the league on both sides of the ball, really.
90:27And how much does just being a pro level group in terms of their scheme change with some of the same players,
90:33not all the same, but a lot of the same players?
90:37Does that really dramatically change things or are they kind of past that point as a roster?
90:42And is McCarthy and Graham better, but not additive enough to make a huge difference in terms of wins?
90:47That'll be the big question. At least there's change.
90:50Change is good. Where can folks check out your work this season?
90:54Yeah. Audibles and analytics is my sub stack. It's a subscriber site so people can check out.
90:59I've got Steelers, Bucks, and then NFL podcasts that I do with Ollie Connelly.
91:03We're going to we're moving up this year. This year we're going to have a lot more content on there, even more podcasts on there.
91:11So excited about that this season. And then you'll find all my written work and draft work to really deep dive draft
91:17evaluations, podcasts and written reports on audibles and analytics.
91:20That's my sub stack as well. So that's where you can find all my content.
91:24I will also be on the podcast. You guys can check it out.
91:28Yes. You can go check talking about the NFC West pretty soon.
91:32So I'll put that on my social so you can go check that out.
91:36And if you don't already check out their podcast, it is fantastic.
91:40Thank you, as always, to my friends at Omaha Productions who make this show.
91:44Kirsten Sebesky, Owen Taylor, Jack Foster, Tucker Taschen. I combined all of their names into one in my head.
91:50And I also have my TV podcast, David Dennis Jr., Viewer Discretion.
91:53We are recapping two very good shows. I know some of these people listening to this are like, I'm not going to
92:00lose you guys talking about Love is Blind. We are recapping Furious and Lanterns, both of which are awesome.
92:06So go check that out wherever you get your pods.
92:09We'll be joined next week by – well, I'm going to keep recapping preseason.
92:13And then later, we'll be joined by some first-time guests.
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