0:00Welcome to The Athletic Football Show brought to you by the U.S.
0:03Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. I'm Robert Mays. Man, a lot to dig into with this Thursday night game.
0:09A tough performance from the Cowboys overall. The offense looking out of sorts, the defense continuing to really struggle, which we dug into.
0:15Man, I could not have been more wrong about how the Dallas defense would look.
0:19There's still a chance you turn it around. It's five games of a new coordinator, but it has been a tough, tough start.
0:26We talked about all the reasons that bleed into that.
0:29Some of the moments from this game, the Jake Ferguson dropped, the Todd Bowles decision to kick the field goal and not go up three scores.
0:36There's just so much to dig into. Let's get to it with me, Dave and Derrik right now.
0:41The game was a rich text. That's how I'll start this conversation.
0:44And I want to kick things off that way because I don't even know where to begin with what just happened.
0:50I think we can. There are two logical starting points.
0:53One, Jake Ferguson, you're killing me like you're killing me.
0:56The fact that Dallas still had a chance to go down and score a touchdown and potentially tie that game.
1:01The ball hits him in the face. It gets intercepted.
1:04The game is essentially over. Or we could start at Todd Bowles.
1:08You're killing me. You're killing me. The idea of not going up three scores and kicking that field goal with like nine minutes left in the game.
1:15But those are like moments. Those are specific moments in a game that requires a lot of big picture discussions.
1:21So I really I'm going to leave this to Dave.
1:24Dave, I want to know where you want to start this discussion.
1:27I thank you for saying so. And I won't I won't make a demand because we are a democracy and I am
1:33just one of three members of this show. So I will just humbly submit that we start this conversation by getting these guys the hell off the table.
1:41I'm totally fine with that. Here's my question. Do we just leave it open for now?
1:45It's Thursday. I don't think we have to fill the seat right now.
1:49We can wait until Sunday night. We can wait until Tyson Bajant goes for like three 80 on Sunday and then we'll figure it out.
1:56Brother, I would I'd put the bears. I would put the bears at the table sight unseen before I wanted to entertain the Cowboys right now.
2:03I'm totally fine taking them off. I'm totally fine taking them off at the end of Sunday.
2:08We'll decide who gets to go on. I think that that's not an issue whatsoever for me.
2:13I'm outvoted anyway, so it doesn't matter. I am not if only for like I'm not going to hold a.
2:19I know that this is a very bad loss.
2:21I'm not going to hold a Thursday night game this badly against the team that I still think their offense can be the best in the NFL.
2:29We just saw them play a really good game against the Ravens.
2:32They beat the shit out of the Houston Texans in the second half of that game.
2:37They are still a very flawed team, and I don't know if this defense is going to get better.
2:42I'm at least willing to hold the seat, but if I'm going to be outvoted two for one, it is it is what it is.
2:49And they're going to get moved. If the defense figures it out, I will.
2:53I will lobby for them to be back on.
2:55Look, and that's fine. If they do, then we'll lobby to put them back on.
3:00Yeah, I will. Listen, we'll talk about the defense.
3:02I think part of my enthusiasm for putting them on is I thought the defense might be surprisingly competent.
3:07That was always the thought, by the way, is that they might be surprisingly competent.
3:12They would have a chance to be like the 17th best defense in the league.
3:16That has not happened. And we can talk about why that hasn't happened.
3:19But because that hasn't come into focus, even if the offense is the best offense in football, the defense is bad enough.
3:26And the offense is clearly inconsistent enough where for now I'm fine doing this.
3:30And if we need to put them on back on a little bit later because the defense finds its footing and they
3:36feel like a different team over the course of the season.
3:39Fine. We have the ability to do that. But for now, I'm with Dave.
3:43You should be punished for what just happened. The way the way the defense is playing, even if the offense was perfect, it might not be good enough.
3:51And I this is totally vibes based in the moment.
3:53But like immediately after that 11 minute bucks drive at the start of this game, I found myself thinking Dax freaked out.
4:00Dak is freaked out by how bad this defense looks.
4:02And he's pressing. Dak is incredible against the blitz.
4:05He's like he's. Do you disagree? The defense wasn't that bad in the first half.
4:09The defense was actually fine for the most part in the first half.
4:13They gave up an 11 minute scoring drive to an undrafted rookie starting his first road game because they gave up a
4:19defensive holding penalty on a third down drive ending sack.
4:22Daron Bland was going to do that because they're bad.
4:25Yeah, they did it like five times tonight. I don't the defense.
4:28I don't think the defense was that bad in the first half.
4:31The run defense was actually looking pretty good in the first half.
4:35In the second half is when we had some issues.
4:37There is a lot happening with the defense and we can dig into it if you want to.
4:43I am fully willing to admit this has been out of sorts from the beginning.
4:47They've had a different set of problems seemingly every single game.
4:50I think that if you watch what happened to the defense today, there were not that many moments where you watch a
4:56call or you watch a choice schematically on a given play.
4:59And I'm like, what are you doing? There were a couple of them.
5:03The third and 20 is indefensible. Like indefensible on every single level to give that up.
5:07The call, the way they played the call. I mean, Bland is getting so much depth sitting there in quarters on that play.
5:14He lets Ibuka just sit down at the sticks.
5:16You bring it. That play is indefensible. For the most part, I think the defensive issues in this game are personnel and execution based.
5:23Bland falls. There were on the first three scoring drives.
5:26You had a sack that should have ended the drive where Bland gets called for a defensive hold.
5:31On the second scoring drive, you have just abysmal tackling on the Bucky Irving run.
5:35Just abysmal. You watch what Hooker and D Winters.
5:38And that's Bland, D Winters. And then we can talk about Rashawn Gary a little bit too.
5:42But Marcus Bell, like all three of those guys look unplayable right now.
5:46So you have two guys miss the tackle in the hole on the Bucky, huge Bucky Irving run that eventually leads to a touchdown drive.
5:53And on the third touchdown drive, Bland falls down.
5:55Like I think that overall, this is a combination of personnel deficiencies, still feeling a little bit out of sorts.
6:01And I think if you're going to put any of this on the coordinator and any of this on the coaching staff, they're playing incredibly slow up front.
6:09If you go back to Bland play, on the Bland play, I still don't understand exactly what was happening.
6:14Donovan as a Raku specifically, it just feels like his head is spinning.
6:18He's, I think, supposed to be running a stunt on that play, but he never even gets close to the line of scrimmage.
6:24So that to me is the problem. I think some of the execution, like the communication errors from the first couple games
6:31have actually been ironed out and look a lot better than they did.
6:34But the entire defense is just playing so, so slow.
6:37And when you combine that with the fact that they're banged up in a lot of places and the personnel wasn't even
6:43that good to begin with, you get a defense that looks like this right now.
6:47I mean, I don't really disagree with that, but I just don't know what they are doing defensively that is supposed to make up for any of this.
6:55Like, I mean, like you said, I just don't think that they're playing fast.
6:59I don't think it's so passive. It's so passive.
7:02It's like, I just don't get it. This is the problem with every Fangio guy is they come in and they're like,
7:08I'm just going to do what the base calls are supposed to be.
7:11And it always feels too slow, too passive. Things are not going well.
7:15And sometimes some of those guys can figure it out.
7:18You know, I think we've seen that at some point, but usually early on with these guys, it takes a while.
7:24I will say on the other end, in terms of like shooting themselves in the foot, because I think execution wise and
7:30some of the penalties, the Dallas Cowboys defense absolutely did that in the first half, though.
7:34There was a drive where the Bucs were driving, got to midfield and they get into the third and one.
7:40They're trying to go fast. Tristan Wurst goes off or gets a false start.
7:44And then on the ensuing third and six, Jalen Daniels, there's a throw open to the left that they scheme up like
7:50with a little bit of like a bunch. A bunch thing.
7:53And he just doesn't see it. He gets, I think, scrambles for like one yard and it's fourth and five.
7:59And then the Bucs don't know what the hell they're doing.
8:02They don't know if they want to punt. They don't know if they want to kick.
8:06They don't want to go. They try to kick.
8:09They don't end up getting a snap off in time.
8:12And so it was like even they had a little bit of like kind of shooting themselves in the foot in a
8:18situation where I did think they were driving and we're going to go and put points on the board.
8:23And Al Michaels said on the broadcast that that kick was short.
8:27But I talked to multiple people in this stadium who said they thought it was made, by the way.
8:32So like that whole that whole fiasco, I guess I don't know for sure because I wasn't there.
8:37But I think it might have cost the Bucs points.
8:40So, I mean, coupling that with the decision to go for the touchdown instead of kicking, which Todd Bowles is so famous for being so conservative.
8:47And the one time I was like, I don't know, man, three score lead under like five minutes.
8:52Like this feels right to me. You got a rookie quarterback.
8:55Like, I don't think we need to overthink this.
8:58But they got away with it largely. And I hear your point, Robert.
9:01I think there's validity to that. I'm not like calling for Christian Parker's job, but Deron Bland signed a $90 million contract.
9:08Not only did he fall down on that explosive, he dropped a potential pick six that changes the way this game ends.
9:14And I do. I'm feeling a little petty because that game was so ridiculous.
9:18Deron Bland and Jake Ferguson are two of the guys the Cowboys prioritized to spend their money on after deciding Micah Parsons wasn't in their future.
9:25And this is what you get. Like Ferguson selling not just in the not just at the end of the pick, obviously,
9:31but a drop on first down that leads to a field goal instead of potentially getting a touchdown before half.
9:37And then, I mean, Deron Bland is he's like borderline unplayable just as an NFL cornerback.
9:41The fact that he is like one of your big contract guys is it's it's incredibly depressing if you're the Cowboys.
9:47I mean, you have to find a way to overcome that.
9:50I don't know how. But like, you know, if Reddy Stewart had fallen down on that play, I'm like, well, you're like, that's Reddy Stewart.
9:57What are you going to do? This is supposed to be like the tentpole of your secondary.
10:02And the fact that that's the caliber of play you're getting from these guys is absolutely brutal.
10:07There's so many it's coming from so many different directions.
10:10I think Christian Parker deserves a ton of culpability in this.
10:13I was extremely wrong about how good this would look, at least early.
10:16I'm with you. As a young coordinator, we're five games in and the personnel.
10:20It was always going to be a tough needle to thread with the personnel.
10:24Like and the fact that the personnel was always going to be middle of the pack at best.
10:29And I thought they might be lifted by the scheme.
10:32Well, now you're banged up. Jalen Thompson isn't playing.
10:35You traded for Joey Porter. He doesn't play in this game.
10:38And it's a combination of you don't have all the guys you thought you would have.
10:42Even the plan has had to change because now Caleb Downs is playing safety because you're banged up.
10:47You're having to move around those pieces. And the guys you've invested real money in are some of your biggest offenders at this point.
10:54Like Bland looks borderline unplayable. When Joey Porter gets back, I think you have to have a real conversation about whether he
11:00should be one of your starting outside corners. I don't think that's unreasonable at this point.
11:05And the other guy that they invested a ton in this offseason, you talk about butterfly effect stuff from the Micah Parsons trade.
11:11What is Gary doing for you? What is he doing for you?
11:14He can't rush the passer. He can't stop the run.
11:17And so you have these guys that you've really invested in.
11:20And they're some of your biggest defenders at this point.
11:23And so you're not getting lifted schematically. Everyone's playing extremely slow.
11:26Your personnel was you're already trying to just kind of get by and be a middle of the pack group.
11:32And now the bottom has fallen out of that.
11:34Everybody deserves blame here. I'm fully willing to admit that this has not gone the way that I thought it was going to go.
11:41But when you think about the injuries combined with the play that you're getting from some of your highest paid players, there's
11:47a lot of blame to be passed around with this thing.
11:50You already made this point. But man, watching the Cowboys rush and blitz and especially contrasted with what the Bucs were doing.
11:57100 percent. I totally agree with that. Think about watching as a rock who compared to watching David or David Walker in this game.
12:03Just think about that. Think about the contrast between those two players specifically and how different that looks.
12:08It's crazy. I'm like Rashawn Gary looked like he was running on on the beach in this game.
12:13It was it was tough. And on the Bucky Irving run, Herbstreet, Kirk Herbstreet pointed this out on the broadcast.
12:19Like Jay Sean Barham blitzed up the A-gap on that play and Graham Barton just kind of caught him.
12:24He was like, oh, that's cool. That's what you're going to do.
12:28That's cool. Like, that's not a problem for me.
12:30It just it didn't look remotely dangerous from the word go.
12:33And Bucky Irving just kind of danced around it.
12:36It like it. It was so slow. Like everything about their efforts to get after the football were so slow.
12:41Barham has been good. Barham, especially as a run defender.
12:44I would agree for the most part. Yeah, he's far away from the issue.
12:48Go watch Dean Winter. Don't go watch Dean Winters on that play.
12:52Oh, I mean, that answer that has been it's been so bad.
12:55After so bad, after Bucky danced around the blitz, it was like Keystone Cops like you saw or like it was like watching Tom and Jerry.
13:02Where you were like the guys just dive into the cloud of debris and Jerry like skirts out the side like it abysmal, abysmal defense.
13:09We talked about this when I was trying to I was just coping so hard after the week one game against the
13:15Giants and I will continue to do so. We talked about how defenses have turned things around early in the season under
13:22first year coordinators and how sometimes you need like a pretty dramatic shift in order to make that back happen.
13:27This team needs to pressure more and play more man.
13:30They have to be it's as a way to potentially get more out of your corners who are more comfortable playing this way.
13:36If it's bland and Porter on the outside, this is how you should play like you're you have so few answers.
13:42I think you have to play this way. And I also think some of their best moments when you watch the front
13:48are when they're just letting those guys go. Just let them go.
13:52And if you're Williams, you have to like you.
13:54I think you have to start playing that way if you're going to dig yourself out of this, because to me, it's
14:01the only antidote to how passive they look overall.
14:03And I think it's potentially a path for you to get better play on the back end.
14:08The Eagles last year blitzed and played a lot of man coverage like that is in the bag if you want to
14:14start going to it based on your personnel. And I truly think that might be the only thing that's going to save
14:20them because I watch the way the front is playing right now.
14:24And everyone, you just feel the gears turning. That to me is where the coaching shows up.
14:28I don't think there are a ton of like really terrible coverage busts in this game.
14:33Your biggest incompletion that you gave up as a guy falling down.
14:36But you just feel how held back everyone is right now, especially with the front.
14:40And I just don't think you can get by playing that way.
14:44And your coverage has to be so good and so complete on the back end.
14:48And it just isn't. They're just not right now.
14:50They need to play more like the Patriots are trying to play more like the Chiefs have tried to play this year.
14:57The Rams are trying to play this way where it's a little bit more man coverage and blitz stuff like they.
15:03That is probably the mode that they need to get into, which I kind of had concerns about coming in where I
15:09was like, I don't know if you guys can play the Fangio style of defense that you want to play.
15:14And I think it's obviously been even worse than I would have imagined because I was probably with you.
15:20I could have. I thought they could have got to 22nd in DVOA and been like totally competent, not good.
15:25But you can get by. They feel like they are still very far from that.
15:29But I think the two biggest dominoes in that, in my opinion, are you look at Bland, you look at the contract,
15:36you think, oh, this is a better situation. Maybe he'll be OK.
15:39And it's been the opposite of that. I mean, he's been part of the problem.
15:43And when if that that's as far in terms of expectations about what a guy would be, I don't I never had high hopes about Duran Bland.
15:51But I think you look at that spot and you're like, oh, well, they have a corner there.
15:56They'll that'll be OK. And then that didn't happen.
15:58And you lose again, you lose Jalen Thompson, you lose Kobe Durant, you lose kind of the connective tissue guys in the
16:05secondary that were supposed to make this thing feel decent, capable.
16:08And it just hasn't felt that way at all.
16:10And I think you need a drastic left turn if you're going to try to salvage this thing, because right now I
16:16don't know what else the answer would be. If you're trying to take a 30,000 foot view, it is it's a it's
16:22a valid point that like, I mean, Durant and P.J.
16:25Locke and Jalen Thompson. P.J. Locke, too. Yeah. Yeah.
16:28Whatever whatever happened with Joey Porter. I mean, he was not expected to miss this game.
16:32That was like a surprise scratch an hour before kickoff or 90 minutes before kickoff.
16:37And so, yeah, when all those guys are available, might this look better?
16:40Yes. But did they have enough to not look like that against Jalen Daniels?
16:44Yes. Absolutely. Unquestionably. Yes. Especially up front. Like it just there's no excuse for what the front looks like right now.
16:50Like I'm at a spot where I want to see more Malachi Lawrence and I want to see this team play with
16:56a little bit more reckless abandon and how they're treating some of those situations.
17:00Like unless that starts happening, I think we're going to be in a bad way.
17:04All right. Before we move on, let's take a quick break.
17:07I don't want to remove all blame from what the offensive performance looks like in this game.
17:12And on that side, again, I think Jalen Daniels deserves a lot of credit for coming in on the road short week
17:18undrafted rookie and playing more than well enough to win.
17:21I mean, he had some big plays and big moments.
17:24I don't want this to be all about the Cowboys.
17:27Because I'll say in terms of which unit I really want to heap a lot of praise on with the Bucs, their defense controlled this game.
17:34Defense was awesome. They controlled this game. And I can't remember, Derek, I'm sure, I'm not sure if you can either.
17:40And Dave, you've seen him play a million games.
17:42When's the last time we saw Dak like that?
17:45Where it just seemed like they had the wrong answer.
17:48Yes. No matter what the Bucs were doing. And that, to me, was the most impressive part of this is that it's
17:54easy to be like a face-melting blitz team and catch teams in the wrong moments sometimes.
17:58But the amount of simulateds, the first interception, right?
18:01Their plan, we got to get the ball out quick.
18:04They're going to heat us up. Instead, they run a simulated.
18:07They drop the two edges off the back. I think it was Walker maybe again who was in the passing lane on that play.
18:14Gets tipped, gets intercepted. And that ball's coming out fast because they think there's pressure coming.
18:18Instead, they're bringing four and you're wrong on the choice that you're making.
18:22And it seemed like through the first three, three, three and a half quarters, that's exactly where the Cowboys offense was.
18:28That every single time they had the wrong answer for whatever bowls in that defense were going to be bringing.
18:33And they were just trying to find a foothold the entire game and couldn't do it.
18:38I think what was so impressive to me about that is it felt like for the first half ish, you were getting a lot of these.
18:45You know, Tampa was doing some of the double mug stuff.
18:48And Dallas was initially trying to block it up.
18:51And then let's throw 11 to 20 yard iso routes.
18:53Let's hit George Pickens on a deep stop route.
18:56Let's throw one to CD, all this sort of stuff.
18:59And the corners were playing so aggressive. They were not driving on that deep comeback.
19:03They were all over that stuff. Parrish had a couple to like the corners.
19:07They're not. Let's talk about Jacob Parrish. He had what, four breakups in this game?
19:11Like he was phenomenal. And even the first completion he gives up to Pickens on the first drive, that is airtight.
19:17And that's just sometimes George Pickens and Dak are going to do that to you.
19:21But I thought so that was how, you know, Dak and the Cowboys were trying to handle the blitz at first.
19:27And then it felt like in the second half they were like, all right, blocking it up and throwing the shot ish plays, the intermediate stuff.
19:34That's not working. We're going to try to go quick.
19:37And then you get that play where that's happening.
19:40And then you had another, I think it was a third or a fourth down later in the game where they're trying
19:46to throw hot to the left hand side because Tampa is showing this like seven man on the line of scrimmage.
19:52Look, Josiah Trotter slowly creeps off the line of scrimmage.
19:55He doesn't just pop and fly out where Dak would see it.
19:58He like slow plays, takes a beat, and then he flies, undercuts it.
20:02Dak has to throw it high. It's an incompletion.
20:04Like, I just think it's not even just the calls that they're getting in.
20:08It's seeing how well Walker is passing off three to get to two and drive on it.
20:13It's seeing how Josiah Trotter is adding this little bit of nuance where he's slow playing it so then he can get
20:19under and get a hand on it late. It's the little coaching details in it on top of what I was saying
20:25with the corners in the first half where it's like, this is what the Todd Bulls defense should be.
20:30You play well enough against the run. You get into these downs and you melt people's faces with this stuff.
20:36They did just the upper hand the entire game.
20:39It just the upper hand the entire game. It was an incredibly impressive performance by the coaching staff and the guys that were bringing that thing to life.
20:46That's what I was the point I was going to make earlier is like Dak's been he's not like he hasn't been
20:53incredible against the Blitz, but like his numbers this year have been really good.
20:57It's like 0.14 EPA per drop back against the Blitz completing 76 percent of his passes.
21:01Last time I looked before I logged on, he was like one of nine against the Blitz for like five or six yards or something like that.
21:09Like to to the point you made, I just I don't remember the last time I saw him that flustered by what somebody was throwing at him.
21:16It would it would have to be like within the first two or three years of his career if I had to guess.
21:23And as long as we're heaping praise on the Bucks defense, I can't say I'm surprised because Todd Bowles does no defense and and knows blitzes.
21:30They know what to do with Keontae Scott, too, by the way, like they have they absolutely had the right idea for Keontae Scott.
21:37And man, I I'm not like I don't have a sweeping take on Reuben Bain.
21:41He just got back from injury like he missed the last two games anyway, whatever.
21:45But Keontae Scott and Josiah Trotter, independent of whatever Reuben Bain's got going on, like you got to be thrilled about those guys if you're a Bucks fan.
21:53And Techie Smith was a demon as a blitzer in this game, too.
21:57I mean, they just were all got a hand on the ball.
22:00They're not like they're I really like this defense.
22:03I don't know what the numbers look like right now.
22:05And like, I mean, I look amazing. I mean, they've been a top five defense by EPA per play.
22:11I mean, I think it's just one of those.
22:13It's the first month of the season. Is this real?
22:16What what is real? But you watch a performance like tonight and it's like, man, this is they're locked in right now.
22:22Alex Anzalone has had a rough start to the year, but like everything else about the Bucks defense, I'm I'm pretty in on.
22:29I like the way it looks. And Antoine Winfield didn't even play tonight.
22:32Right. And Benjamin Morrison is not out there helping them like in the secondary like this.
22:37I think Todd Bowles at this stage in his career is a fine to solid defensive mind and is maybe not as
22:43like electric as he had been five, six years ago.
22:46But I just continue to look at this defensive roster.
22:49I'm like they feel too talented to not make it work.
22:52And I would even say this year, like Zion McCollum is playing better football than I've ever seen him play.
22:57I think the safeties are playing really, really well.
23:00Josiah Trotter is about as good as you can reasonably hope a second round rookie is going to be.
23:05Like I just I'm excited about where this is going to go.
23:08They're still going to be Robert. You've mentioned it before.
23:11Sometimes late in the season, the Todd Bowles defenses just fall apart.
23:15But if they can be good enough for the next eight weeks that this team can crawl back to like 500 respectability
23:21for now, that's all you're hoping for in the middle of an NFL season.
23:25And I do think that that's possible. I wonder if the offense is going to have that gear.
23:30That's that's that's the thing I keep coming back to.
23:33I worry about it. A lot of things. Yeah.
23:35When you're when you're not playing the worst defense in the NFL, what is that going to look like?
23:40I still think I mean, Bucky looks really good.
23:43The fact that he's healthy with that offensive line, I do think there's a path forward potentially for the run game.
23:49I just wonder outside of a book like who are the past game threats on this team?
23:54And how do we feel about the quarterback in a situation that might be fine over the course of the season, but isn't explicitly good?
24:01Like the circumstances that he's playing in in this offense with Zach Robinson, like what can you reasonably expect to get from
24:07Baker coming back from injury in a couple of weeks?
24:10But the defense, I don't really have reason to think they can't keep them in games if they continue to play this way.
24:16I wish they had one more player where when they have the ball, I'm scared of them.
24:21Like, but he's got some pop. Like when he's healthy, he does have a little bit of that.
24:26But like, that's not really what Emeka Ibuka does.
24:28Like they're trying to do some of this jet handoff stuff with Chris Godwin.
24:32And at this stage in his career, that's not really what he is like.
24:36K-Dotten from Tita, and that's not really what he is.
24:39And so they have guys who are like fine and can get to their spots, can make some decent plays moving the chains.
24:46But the pop in the offense, like other than Bucky Irving, it's like you're hoping that you hit one of the Ted
24:52Hurst go balls or something like that. And that just doesn't feel like enough.
24:56That was the name I was going to mention.
24:58Like over the course of the season, can he somebody, can he be somebody that gives you some explosive plays?
25:04Like I, again, I think right now I would have long-term concerns about the passing game, but the offensive line is still filled with good players.
25:11Bucky looks really good now that he's healthy again.
25:14And can you eventually find enough in that area when Baker gets healthy to make yourself relevant in the NFC South?
25:19I'm not, I was going to say, I don't think that ship has sailed yet.
25:24It's a 1050 on a Thursday. We're making pirate jokes, but yeah, I go for it.
25:28I'm not sure the ship has sailed for Tampa quite yet, but I, I still think it's a pretty narrow path in
25:34part because the other teams in the NFC South look pretty good.
25:38Yeah. The Panthers office looks good. The Falcons are, the Falcons just are more of a, an impediment that you might've thought coming into the year.
25:45I give the NFC South is what we thought the NFC South was going to be coming into the season.
25:51And we just watched this Bucks team at one and four and everyone else is two and two at best.
25:56It's like, okay, maybe, but I just think overall the quality of division is just probably better than we thought it was going to be.
26:03And not because the saints are good, which is very funny.
26:06I, I do. I agree with the premise. I do think, I think the NFC South is, is better than we probably gave it credit for.
26:14And I think at least some of the stuff we're seeing is real ish, but you know, I was listening to the
26:20show you did with Deontay on the feed this week.
26:23And we don't know yet. We don't know anything.
26:25Like I'm not willing to like write in Sharpie that the Panthers and Falcons are like definitely good teams.
26:30I did, but I do, I do think, I mean, just by virtue of the fact that they're one in four, that
26:37is a hell of a steep hill to climb.
26:39And especially when we, we don't have a timetable for Baker yet.
26:43I mean, I do, I want to say one more time.
26:46It is incredibly cool that Jalen Daniels won this job unexpectedly during training camp, played the Packers tough in his debut and then won this game.
26:53And like they said, he, he started eight of eight in this game and is the first undrafted rookie to do so in the Superbowl era.
27:00Like some really cool shit. Like good, good for you, Jalen Daniels.
27:04I don't know if it means the bucks are going to win the NFC South, but it's pretty damn cool.
27:09He can clearly play. I mean, you watch him.
27:12He is an NFL player. He is, he's not out of his depth at all.
27:16And again, even if you want to say that the Cowboys defense is reeling right now, it absolutely is.
27:21But I, you can still against a reeling defense still look like you're not made for this or you're, you're not, you're, you don't belong out there.
27:29He absolutely does. I mean, what he's been able to do with his legs, a couple of throws he made the best.
27:35I mean, even being willing to try that whole shot that bell ends up breaking up.
27:39I mean, that is a good ball. Like that's very close to being completed in a ridiculous way.
27:45And so I agree. I mean, it's, he clearly belongs out there.
27:48He's got a lot of juice to him and it's a great story.
27:52And it was fun to watch. He's a gamer.
27:54Like he just does stuff. And, and like, he's just, even like when you can tell he doesn't know what he's seeing yet, or there's a blitz.
28:02He's like so fast to just be like, all right, screw it.
28:05Pull the rip cord. I'm going to go. And he, I just, he's like a good enough athlete to do that.
28:11The thing I want to say, like, because I think some of the eye test stuff is pretty impressive for him, especially again, UDFA.
28:18This is your second start ever. It's prime time short week.
28:21This is obviously a really small sample among quarterbacks with at least 40 attempts.
28:25He would be 10th in success rate right now.
28:27It's above Joe Burrow and Josh Allen. And obviously like what they're asking those quarterbacks to do is way different.
28:33It's very different defenses, but like he's, he's moving the ball, man.
28:36We know what it looks like when a guy winds up in this situation and he's not ready for it.
28:42Like it looks like Cooper. Yes. Yeah. Like even if, even if that's fake and like, it is obviously like Jalen Daniels
28:48is not better than Joe Burrow or some of those other guys.
28:51But even if it's fake, that's incredibly impressive. Yeah.
28:54Yeah. I'm looking at the numbers right now. Well, Jalen Daniels had a 2.92 time to throw per next gen and the
29:00Cowboys finished with a 20% pressure rate. Can't happen.
29:03Tough. Can't happen. And it's to me that, that was the thing that really jumped out today is that there were a
29:09couple of slips in the back end, but just how passive and just how little you feel the front in passing situations is.
29:15It really did come back to just completely torpedo them today.
29:18How many more draft picks is Jerry Jones willing to part with between now and November 1st?
29:23Ah, ah, Cleo Mack, come on down. I've, I've, I've, I've heard worse ideas after watching that play pretty well.
29:29I'll tell you what. I've, I've heard worse ideas.
29:31I mean, it's the one play. Go look at the, I can't, I think it was like an 11 yard run for
29:37Bucky in the second half, which was, again, it was like not the, one of the biggest plays, but it was one
29:43of their successful runs when they didn't have a ton in the first half.
29:47The movement that Luke Kadecki gets on Von Miller on that play and how large the C gap looks on that play.
29:54That can't, that's, that can't happen. You're not winning for Williams.
29:57We got some, some different guys need to be getting some different snap counts on the edge right now for the Cowboys,
30:03whether they're in the building or they're not. But we'll have a long time to talk about that.
30:08We can revisit it on Sunday when we talk about the fact that the Cowboys are no longer at the table and they have to be replaced.
30:15We'll just, maybe by Sunday night, we'll just put them back on depending on how everybody else disappoints us.
30:21I don't know. We don't have to do this now in terms of like who the real contenders are, but I think
30:27there's absolutely a chance by the time Sunday wraps up, we have teams that we feel better about than Dallas.
30:33And I, I'm glad you said that Dave, because I, again, I do think that like, it's just so hard to make
30:39any sort of proclamations in after four or five, after four weeks, even after five weeks.
30:43Like it, just think back to some of the stuff we said five weeks into last season, even halfway into last season.
30:49We do that every single year. It's just the nature of the beast.
30:53It's more so, I think the way to frame it right now is who do you feel better about, right?
30:59Do you feel better about X team or this team?
31:01And that's kind of stuff being surprising. And in the NFC South, I think that's what I go back to.
31:07It's like, even with, in terms of offenses, who do you feel better about right now?
31:12The Panthers offense, the Falcons offense, or the Bucs offense?
31:14Like who's third in that pecking order? The Bucs by a lot.
31:18It's probably the Bucs. And that's just, and that's, that may change basically as we get new information and as the season unfolds.
31:24But right now, that's, I think, where I land with it as well.
31:28And kind of a weird place to be considering what the heights we, think about like where we were at the end
31:34of the 2024 season with the Bucs offensive infrastructure compared to a couple of those other teams.
31:39I mean, it does feel very different than our expectations.
31:42And I think that to me is why I would push back on the idea that even at one and four, the
31:48Bucs can maybe force themselves back into the discussion here.
31:51All right. That is all we've got for Thursday Night Football.
31:54We will be back on Sunday. If you're listening to this on the podcast feed, the week five preview is available for
32:00you guys to listen to right now. If you're watching this on YouTube on Friday, that will be available at about 12 p.m.
32:06Central. Really encourage you guys to check that out for now.
32:09That's all we got. Appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you very soon.