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1:19Visit homedepot.com. How doers get more done. Welcome to The Undrafted, a Dynasty Game Theory podcast brought to you by OTC Fantasy.
1:26I am your host, Scott Belanger, a.k.a. Jax Falcone.
1:29You can find me on Twitter at DinoGameTheory. This is episode number 251.
1:33Let's roll. And it is with a great pleasure.
1:35I invite maybe the person I've had on this show, maybe more than any other guest outside of OTC realm, and that
1:42is my very good friend from the GOAT District.
1:45No. From Player Profile. No, no, no. From Fantasy Points.
1:48No. From Roto-Wire. Mr. Theo Greminger is gracing us with his presence once again.
1:52Mr. Theo Greminger, welcome to the program, and congratulations on the new gig, my friend.
1:56Well deserved. No, I really, really, no, really, really appreciate it.
2:00And yeah, I've been on your show a million times.
2:03You've been on my shows a million times. Congratulations on hitting 250.
2:06That's a significant milestone for you guys. I mean, it was all a dream.
2:10Used to read Word Up Magazine, and now you're dropping 251.
2:14I think it's, I mean, it's awesome. You've been crushing the show, and yeah, we talked a little bit in the pre-show,
2:20and yeah, it's been a big kind of change for me.
2:24But it's, I kind of told a bunch of people this.
2:27It's like, there's no days off. Like, for Fantasy Points, I sort of worked till the end doing shows.
2:33Yeah. And then I ripped off a bunch of shows for Roto-Wire, and I've been doing a show a day in the
2:39month of July, did a couple at the end of June, and it's just been put your head down and work.
2:46And that's sort of what fantasy football is in July and August.
2:49If this was like a change that happened in like February, maybe I would have noticed it a little bit more.
2:56But it's like, I put out content. I think it helps people win in fantasy football, and the Roto-Wire community's embraced that.
3:02A bunch of people sort of, you know, that listen to your shows or listen to my shows, and a bunch of
3:09people came over from like the Fantasy Points audience.
3:11So we've got really big plans to do some awesome stuff at Roto-Wire.
3:15I'm thrilled about doing it, but I'm more thrilled to just put out really good stuff, just like I do every single July and August.
3:23And time to win some leagues this year. It's a weird year for both Dynasty and for Redraft.
3:28It feels like, I don't know, people are being kind of cautious on certain guys.
3:33I think there's edges to be had, and I think leagues can be won this year.
3:38So I'm really fired up about my own teams, let alone my own content.
3:42Fired up about everything, man. Yeah, it does feel like a little bit of a different year for some reason.
3:48I don't know what that is. I mean, obviously for you, you're going through some changes of your own, you know, changing
3:54from Fantasy Points to Roto-Wire, which, like I said, is well-deserved.
3:58I know that, you know, you didn't leave anywhere.
4:00You just went someplace. There's a big difference. You know, you haven't burned a bridge, man.
4:05Everybody in this industry really respects and loves you, as do all of your former partners and employers, etc.
4:11So, you know, this is really an exciting thing.
4:14I just wanted to mention that. I don't know why everybody knows that.
4:18But, you know, it's true. You know, it really is.
4:21I mean, there's so much respect for you. I've had respect for you longer than everybody, so I really deserve a little bit more.
4:28No, I'm only seasoned. I do remember the Goat District days, man, when I went on that show.
4:33And this was many years ago when you guys were just, you know, fledgling, if you will.
4:38I really respected the fact that you guys had a pretty cool, you know, following, even though it was smaller, right?
4:45Because we were all kind of just in the space together.
4:48It was a lot like the following that I felt like we had at the Undroppables, which was very loyal and very,
4:55like, into what we were actually doing. And I think that was there was something there that was, like, real.
5:01And I think that's what you bring. And I think that's what it is that people are gravitating towards.
5:06You're not a pretend guy. You know, you're not pretending to know about football.
5:11You're not pretending to work hard and try and figure out where the edges are.
5:15You're actually doing these things. And I think that shows through.
5:18So enough glazing here. You had mentioned it's a funny year and that there's some people being afraid or cautious was the word you used.
5:26I guess I would ask, where do you what are you talking about there?
5:30And maybe just kind of open the window to that that idea.
5:34I just think it's it's multifaceted where we can make arguments that the fantasy gamer is getting sharper.
5:39Yeah. And the fantasy gamer is not paying for last year's stats and all those sort of things where we can sort
5:46of look at it from a from a glass half full perspective that the market is completely correct.
5:51That fantasy gamers have it right. That fading Devon Achan is the correct move because of the offensive circumstances that, you know,
5:58fading Trey McBride is the correct move that putting Jeremiah Love, one of the best prospects we've seen at the running back
6:04position in like 20 years into like the fourth round in NFFC drafts right now.
6:09Late third round and big money drafts is the correct moves because of all these concerns we have about the offense.
6:15And we can sort of like take that glass half full that it's like a sophisticated take.
6:20But I think it's also a little bit of people are being overly cautious and I don't think they're I think they're
6:27a little bit worried about getting burned in certain situations.
6:30And I think that they're a little too comfortable with certain older players that have been very healthy the last couple of
6:37years and been producing at a crazy clip. I also think that there is a big stance in the in the industry
6:43where not necessarily yourself, but there's a lot of really smart people.
6:47And if you ask 10 really smart people you respect about like redraft strategy and what's the way to go about it
6:53this year, you're going to get so many people telling you to start your draft with two running backs.
6:59And I think it's almost becoming like maybe the edges here or be dynasty is a whole nother ballgame because the markets
7:06are always sharper in dynasty because we are evaluating not just this year, but sort of like the big picture thinking.
7:12But I think there's still ways to sort of to leverage the redraft and best ball markets to find dynasty values.
7:18You see it every single year guys get these dynasty bumps because they're like a better in best ball type pick or
7:25or they're seeing a redraft bump and maybe a guy rises into the fifth round of redraft.
7:30And suddenly there's a window for him to be a sell in dynasty.
7:34Yeah, but I just feel like it's a weird year.
7:37A bunch of different things sort of converging into one another.
7:40And it's just an interesting one. Very interesting one.
7:43Yeah. Well, with all that, I don't know where I'm going to start.
7:47Let's start with actually the Jeremiah love because I thought that, you know, you mentioned that this is actually a question I'm
7:53asking because he is the RB four in dynasty.
7:56And that's I disagree with that. I think he's the RB three in dynasty, but either way, he's a top four running back in dynasty.
8:04He's as talented a running back as we've seen.
8:06He's not more talented than some of these other, you know, big names we've seen B.
8:11John and Saquon, but he's up there, man. You know, I think he's a better prospect by a hair than Ashton Gentile
8:18and Ashton Gentile was, you know, legendary, but I love, I think he's way up there as, as an elite prospect.
8:24What's wrong with the, I don't know what's wrong with the offense.
8:28I don't see anything quote unquote wrong with the offense.
8:31It's not like, I mean, he's going to be pretty dominant.
8:34I would think he's going RB 12, as you point out and underdog and, and redraft.
8:39I mean, that's, that's, that feels wrong. What are your thoughts just in a, in a vacuum on, on, on Jeremiah love right now?
8:46Yeah. I mean the, the discourse of like, should you take them in the middle of the second round early on in
8:53the process was sort of like an interesting one, but now he's getting pushed down to a range in the third round
8:59where it feels kind of like a floor and it feels like a range where he could just crush it over the second half of the year.
9:07I think it's many fold. I think the Ashton Gentile, you mentioned Ashton Gentile and I think that's the number one factor
9:14for redraft managers is they got burned on Ashton Gentile, but they had to take him like 12, 11, 13.
9:20Yep. Now it's like we, you only got a 14 point per game season out of Gentile and it was like not consistent scoring across the board.
9:28It would be like a really good week with some bad weeks.
9:32And I think that Jeremiah love is getting punished there where people say it could be another situation where the offense as
9:38a whole can hold down like this fantastic talent of a running back.
9:42And we need to therefore adjust him incredibly. But I don't know.
9:46For me, it's like it's way too. It's almost like a like an overcorrection in price where fantasy football is not about
9:53fantasy football is not about like it's a nuanced game, but we have to take swings in order to win fantasy leagues.
9:59You have a one out of 12 chance to win and we can find edges that can push that number up.
10:05Certainly like grinding through waivers and redraft that kind of stuff.
10:09But at the end of the day, you're going to have to hit on some guys that crush their ADP.
10:15You even if you get it right in the first and second round, there's going to be guys in rounds three through like eight.
10:22Yeah, and there's always a handful of them and you've got to identify a few of them.
10:27The JSN betting on it. You know, that's it bet on a talent.
10:31And with Jeremiah love, you could see a situation where second half of the year.
10:35He's an absolute hammer. Yeah, and we can have this conversation next summer and I don't think it's out of the realm
10:42of possibilities that we're podcasting together in July 2027 and we're like, oh, so are you taking B.
10:48John Robinson or Jeremiah love at three overall this year?
10:51Like and it's and he's not going to get there by having a zero this year.
10:55He's going to get there because he's super talented, super explosive, big play ability and also the ability to catch the football at a really high rate.
11:03So I think you've got the gente factor. I think you've obviously got the Carson Beck factor where people are fearful that
11:10Beck can take over and maybe, you know, sink the offense.
11:13I think that's a realistic fear. But again, is Jeremiah love good enough to be slightly QB proof and able to overcome being in a bad situation?
11:21We've seen multiple running backs in sort of bad situations have really good fantasy production, especially when you're getting him in like the dead zone.
11:29Then you've you've got the Tyler Algier thing where Tyler Algier people don't want the whole B.
11:34John Robinson rookie year experience. Again, B. John was going at like the one to turn, not the third round, but they don't want the whole B.
11:42John rookie year experience where you get like sporadic usage and then you have the ridiculous one.
11:47I don't know if you've heard this one. Arizona is going to be so bad that they're going to shut Jeremiah love
11:54down for the end of the season, which is the stupidest thing I've ever seen.
11:58No, that one is dumb. The other is like we could talk it through like the others.
12:04Yeah, yeah. The end of the day, it's are you willing to chase upside and are you willing to take a shot
12:10on a guy going somewhere between like the 305 and in some leagues like the 401 that could provide insane, insane returns if it all comes together.
12:18And I think we could say like if the usage is really good for Jeremiah love, he's going to absolutely smoke this ADP.
12:25Yeah. And I think he's going in front of a range of guys that could all be sort of there's all some
12:32red flags with a lot of the running backs going behind him as well.
12:36So I think Jeremiah loves a really interesting click.
12:39I didn't think I'd be all in on him in redraft, but, but you didn't think the price was going to be here either.
12:46I don't think it'd be there. Right. I mean, we've seen this and, and Gentry is the perfect, um, you know, replica from last year.
12:53We certainly thought he, I would think, you know, without being, I'm more of a dynasty guy.
12:59I play a little bit of basketball, but I would have think Jeremiah love would have been one two turn guy, you
13:05know, certainly in that, you know, top six, seven, six, seven RBs.
13:09There you go. Um, but for sure. Right. And then, you know, to turn around and see him where he's at, look,
13:15the, the rookie year experience, I think is a good one because we saw it with JT.
13:21We see, we see it with all these players.
13:23It's really difficult sometimes as a rookie because there's a bit of ramping up, you know, Nick Chubb.
13:29I can remember he had like the, the one big run in like the second game and we're like, please play Nick
13:35Chubb, uh, you know, as a rookie. So we see these guys sort of held back, um, and maybe he'll be held
13:42back a little bit, but if, and when he actually plays, you know, a 70 or 80% running back share for any
13:48team, I feel like he's a top six back in the league.
13:52Um, with a little bit of touchdown luck, he's, he's there.
13:55Right. And, you know, we talk about bad team, good team.
13:59Well, if he's on the field, I really don't care how good or bad the team is because he's an all purpose player.
14:06He does at least project, especially with this roster to play on pass downs as well.
14:10So I'm with you on, on, um, on Jeremiah love one of the other values I've been thinking about and talk me
14:17off this ledge, but David Montgomery feels like a huge value in dynasty right now, because I think, well, maybe he's starting
14:24to go the other way a little bit because people are starting to see it, but his value, I just looked at it.
14:31I think in, um, in, uh, let me see, where is he?
14:34Yeah. He's the RB 20 and underdog. So I think that's fair, but he's closer to the RB 30 and dynasty.
14:40Um, you know, second round pick, you know, there, there's been some acquisitions of David Montgomery.
14:45I'm sure you've seen in your leagues that are just really inexpensive and you might have a top 15, 10, 15 running back on your hands.
14:53Right. Yeah. I mean, we saw this two years ago with Joe Mixon in this offense where you had that magical year.
15:00And I think if you're, if you're looking at David Montgomery, is there a chance that, I mean, certainly I think it
15:06could end up being a two year window for him.
15:09Um, but David Montgomery set up to have a really, really high volume role.
15:14Um, it feels like Houston is invested a lot on sort of both sides of the ball in terms of having like a ton of toughness.
15:21We also saw how effective that defense was last year.
15:24They were an edge to have in fantasy football.
15:27Having the Houston defense was like, you know, having a, uh, an edge over like defense three or defense four, whoever you played against.
15:34And I think they'll continue to be that. Um, but I think they're really going to embrace David Montgomery.
15:40Um, Nick Haley has been like effusive in his praise for him, called him like all day tough.
15:45Yes. They've talked about like the bell cow thing.
15:48And I think David Montgomery, not taking on like a huge workload the last two years, it gives him an opportunity to
15:55sort of restart the clock here in Houston. And for dynasty, I acquired a lot of David Montgomery early in the off season.
16:02Um, I had a couple of very fun prices.
16:04I paid like a, I think it was like a Xavier worthy for David Montgomery price.
16:09I paid, I had a, in a single QB league.
16:12I traded like two late seconds before like people kind of got wise about this year's second round values.
16:18And I turned that into David Montgomery. Um, so I think David Montgomery, like from a dynasty perspective, he's maybe, is he a mercenary one year guy?
16:26I think you've got to treat him like he's a one year guy, like in terms of your long, like you've got
16:33to say to yourself, I'm going for it this year.
16:36I'm getting David Montgomery. I'm putting him in as my RB two.
16:39I'm putting him in as my flex. And I could have a season where he gets 15 points per game.
16:45But I think there's another story where you might pay a mercenary price tag where people say, you know, a little bit
16:52older back, how long is his window? And then you end up getting maybe a two year window for Montgomery.
16:58Cause I think there's gas left in the tank.
17:01Um, he's a really tough player. And I think this could be a great situation for him.
17:06And I think it's also a Woody marks is a non threat.
17:09I think Woody marks like Woody marks is not some like unknown upside guy who's going to explode in your two.
17:16Woody marks was one of the older prospects we saw last year at like the running back position in that class.
17:22Woody marks had a couple of usable weeks. Now I think you treat what he marks like what he marks is most
17:29valuable to like the David Montgomery manager in the league as like his handcuff.
17:33Right. Um, but he's not like a handcuff plus.
17:35I think this is Montgomery time. Um, and history can repeat itself.
17:39It could be Joe mix in part two. Yeah.
17:42I'm with you a thousand percent. I, you know, the thing with, um, the thing with Montgomery too, he's been like, you, I think you touched on it.
17:50He's been very durable. So I think from, uh, the position, the, the position I'm looking at, like you would, you had
17:57said, um, he might be a one or two year mercenary type running back, but outside of the top six, maybe there's
18:03a few others, you know, maybe there's five or 10 running backs who you can project into three years from now, like, you know, two seasons away.
18:12Um, the rest of them are all one year guys, you know, I mean, who's to say that, you know, Basial Tootin is going to be worth anything.
18:20Like, you know, go down the list, like even young players, we have no idea.
18:24Cam Scadaboo. It's like, okay, well, are you sure he's going to be a starting running back in three years from now?
18:31I, there's no guarantee of that. Anybody who says that, oh, they know, hasn't played dynasty with running backs, you know, ever before in their life.
18:39You know, it's just, it's just the way running backs are.
18:42They get churned. Uh, there's only a few of them.
18:45Uh, you go look at the backup running backs, running backs, you know, 25 through 60 and dynasty, and it's littered with names of guys.
18:53We thought were going to be starters for years and years and weren't.
18:57So I think for that reason, David Montgomery is as sturdy an asset as you can really have at the running back position.
19:04And like you said, I think he's got the backfield to his own.
19:07So I'm, I'm, I'm, and I'm going to shift it this way.
19:11What about Bucky Irving and David Montgomery could be a really good, I called it lily pads or whatever, you know, jumping
19:18from one to the other and getting off of Bucky Irving and onto something else that feels way less expensive.
19:24In other words, you know, what could you do with, with a trade going from Bucky Irving to David Montgomery?
19:30I think you can do pretty well. And then the question is, is David Montgomery going to outscore Bucky Irving over the next two years?
19:37I almost think it's more likely. What are your thoughts?
19:40I mean, I think it's a really interesting and great pivot.
19:44And I think Bucky Irving is one of the more interesting players because whenever I talk dynasty with people, they'll bring up
19:50like dynasty data lab or keep trade cut. And I think we have to, um, because those, I mean, those sites have
19:57a lot of value in terms of like showing that where the crowdsourcing is, but it's definitely like a not in my
20:03league bro guy where Bucky Irving, like he's running back 17 or running back 16 on all these sites.
20:09And in my leagues, he's definitely not getting that sort of running back valuation.
20:13Like if you come at somebody with a offer of like, can I have your Bucky Irving for, for, you know, I'll
20:20trade you Bucky and you trade me, you know, Derek Henry or something like that.
20:24They're going to laugh in my face. And even though Derek Henry is an older player, it's sort of like, no, I'm good.
20:31I'm a contender. I'm going to go with Derek Henry.
20:34Right. I think David Montgomery is a little bit, it's sort of the unknown plays into it for you where you could
20:41end up getting a situation where who scores more points this year.
20:45I think it's David Montgomery and who scores more points over the next two years.
20:49It could absolutely be David Montgomery. And then you talk about like how we have to treat guys like Bucky Irving year
20:56one, me and you were teaching the world about Bucky Irving year one before like the big breakout.
21:01We're like, Bucky Irving's that dude, go get Bucky Irving.
21:04And we had a bunch of Bucky Irving. And I remember us being on like player profiler shows with like Matt at
21:11the time and sort of like crushing the Rashad White stance that year.
21:15So like we made money off of Bucky Irving.
21:17But I think when you look at Bucky Irving now, does long-term dynasty for him, is he a really effective runner when he's fully healthy?
21:25I think so. I think so. Does he have pass?
21:28Absolutely. Does he have pass catching ability? Absolutely. And is he young enough?
21:32Yes. Yes. But the fears of smaller back who's taken a hit, had trouble getting staying on the field last year, shoulder
21:38injury that's lingering, had the foot problem, already missed time in year two.
21:42Now year three, sort of, is he fully ready to go?
21:46I know there's optimism right now, but they bring in Kenneth Gainwell.
21:49Well, he's already sort of a, even if you have a fully healthy Bucky Irving, I've sort of taken the stance that
21:56even if the efficiency as a runner is fully back, I think he's a win at ADP, but he's not a smash
22:02because Kenneth Gainwell, the Vegas over-under for him for pass catching right now, I think it's like 50 and a half.
22:09I'm taking the over on that. I think Kenneth Gainwell catches more than 50 passes.
22:13I think they brought him in to do that, and I think they like him.
22:18So I think Gainwell's presence sort of caps his upside anyway.
22:21So David Montgomery, to me, I think that's an interesting pivot.
22:24I think in a lot of leagues, I can get Montgomery plus.
22:28You would think so, right? I've got another question I'm going to ask you about Bucky and Kenny Gainwell right after this.
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23:13Welcome back to the program, Theo Gremminger and I.
23:16Theo, thank you so much for joining us. The takes are flowing off you like fire.
23:21You know, I had comped Cam Scadabo to you famously.
23:24Honestly, I think you're better. Honestly, I think that was probably a little bit too low.
23:29You know, we got to find a new comp for Scadabo.
23:32You're much greater than that. He could be like a long-lost cousin.
23:36He's a NorCal guy. Got a bunch of family over there.
23:39Maybe. Maybe Cam Scadabo. Maybe Cam Scadabo. We could be Cam Scadabo.
23:42Hit me up. Wow. You guys should do a...
23:45What is it called? The... Little Ancestry. Check it out like the Ancestry.
23:49Yeah, yeah. Something like that. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Send in each a piece of hair and see if you guys are...
23:55See how it lines up. See how it lines up.
23:58I think so. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I've met Theo in person.
24:02I'm a little taller, I will say. Slightly. But man looks like he could find a hole in a gap scheme.
24:09That's all I'm going to tell you. There we go.
24:12There we go. Yep. Man looks like it. All right.
24:15Bucky Irving, Kenny Gainwell. Wow. They... I mean, Kenny Gainwell...
24:18First of all, if you can remember. I mean, we got to go back a little bit.
24:23But do you remember how much you did or did not like Kenny Gainwell as a prospect coming out?
24:28I mean, I liked Kenny Gainwell coming out as a prospect.
24:32I remember actually an overpaying for him in a rookie draft when he fell.
24:36It wasn't like a crazy overpay, but I remember overpaying for him.
24:40It was like the really productive Memphis guy. He could catch the ball.
24:44Yeah. And then I think, you know, somewhere in the multiverse, Saquon doesn't end up in Philly.
24:49Maybe Kenny Gainwell would have had like a longer term chance.
24:52There was the... Nick Sirianni really wanted him to be a thing.
24:56Or he doesn't end up in Philly with a non-throwing to the running back quarterback.
25:00You know, all the... That's fair. That's fair too.
25:03Yeah. Many multiverse situations here. But Gainwell... I always talked about how Gainwell has like a way of endearing himself to coaches.
25:09Like, Nick Sirianni loved Kenny Gainwell. And that was like...
25:12He wore the t-shirt, all that stuff. He tried to start him that one year over Miles Sanders.
25:18And then it quickly shifted, obviously. And then, you know, even with Saquon there, they still liked Kenny Gainwell.
25:23And then Gainwell gets to Pittsburgh. And Aaron Rodgers really liked him because he can pass block.
25:29And they utilized him heavily. And Mike Tomlin like fully like rolled him out.
25:33And now he ends up in Tampa Bay where Zach Robinson signs on as OC.
25:37And one of the first moves they made was getting Kenneth Gainwell.
25:41And it's an interesting one because, you know, we talked about Kenneth Gainwell pre-free agency.
25:45Like, there's going to be a huge market for this guy.
25:49I think there was some sort of promises made and expectations for what he could be in this offense.
25:54Robinson, like, praises Bucky Irving. And I think they do internally like Bucky Irving.
25:59But last year had to scare them a lot.
26:01And then you've got an offense that's very pass happy.
26:04And I think Gainwell has a chance to sort of, you know, like profit off of that.
26:09And from a dynasty perspective, he's a really fun player to have because a lot of dynasty rosters are constructed where you
26:16have a ton of talent at wide receiver. Maybe you're a little bit more fragile at running back.
26:22And having guys like Gainwell, he's an automatic start if Bucky Irving misses time.
26:26And if Bucky Irving doesn't miss time, I can get through in some deeper formats with him as, like, my flex.
26:32Even like an RB2 because the pass catching ability is great.
26:35So, I've actually acquired – I traded Jacoby Myers for Kenneth Gainwell straight up in a league.
26:40I thought that was an okay price tag to pay.
26:43Absolutely, yes. And a couple other leagues, like, I made, like, little moves to try to have a little bit more Gainwell exposure in dynasty.
26:51But, yeah, I mean, I had him last year.
26:54He helped a ton. I don't – does he have the same sort of ceiling in this offense that he had in
27:00Pittsburgh where that was, like, sort of, like, the offense?
27:03I think so. I think he could average 13 points per game if Bucky Irving went away.
27:08I was going to say, certainly with a Bucky Irving injury, his ceiling is much higher than I think it was in
27:15Pittsburgh, or at least right there with it, right?
27:18I just think that, you know, you look at the way Baker plays.
27:22I'm not looking at the, you know, how often he throws to running back type of thing.
27:27I mean, I don't think it's as good as Aaron Rodgers.
27:30But, nonetheless, it's in the realm. And, you know, I do think that when you said that coaches seem to like Bucky
27:37– I mean, Kenny Gainwell, I think it's because he's awesome.
27:40You know, I can remember my take on Kenny Gainwell when he came out was he's awesome.
27:45And then, you know, it's sort of like – you know, same thing with, like, R.J.
27:50Harvey. I was like, I liked R.J. Harvey. We'll get to him in a moment.
27:54But I had fears. I still have fears for Kenny Gainwell.
27:58It's like, you know, I like him, but will the NFL see him as a lead back?
28:03I was not sure. And that was right. That was good, you know, skepticism at that time.
28:08And he's still not seen that way, obviously. But the league has changed a little bit since Kenny Gainwell was drafted in
28:15that we're seeing smaller and smaller backs, one of them being Bucky Irving, succeed.
28:19You know, a lot of these guys were not – we didn't have that.
28:23You know, I did the anatomy of an elite running back in Dynasty for many years, and we just didn't see sub-200-pound backs.
28:30We just did not see it. As a matter of fact, even sub-205-210 you really didn't see.
28:35So to see A-Chan and Bucky Irving and, you know, Gibbs and all these players who are excellent players, but to allow
28:42them, the NFL sort of allowing them to elevate, I think has a lot to do with the way that, you know
28:48– I don't want to make this a long conversation, but defenses are lighter today than they were because of the pass game.
28:55So you can kind of get away with a, you know, 195-pound back being back there because the linebackers aren't 250 anymore.
29:02They're 220, right? You remember. Like, these backers were fucking kill you.
29:05Ray Nitschke or whatever. Huge. They're 260 pounds. Yeah, 265 and playing linebacker.
29:09Yeah. Right? So it was more of a power game.
29:12Now it's a little bit more of a finesse game.
29:15So all these things culminating, but to the point that I think Kenny Gainwell can play more than he has played in the past, I think is obvious.
29:24You know, it's clear that he can. And this Bucky Irving situation, I think they're going to be compelled to play both
29:30of these guys, and that's what scares me about Bucky.
29:33Kenny Gainwell's excellence is what scares me about Bucky as well as all of Bucky's weird shit going on.
29:39I mean, those are the things. So, yeah, I do think that I would definitely try and make a trade to get off Bucky.
29:46I don't know how easy that is, so maybe there's a time in the future that that makes more sense.
29:52I want to ask you another either or. This one's fun.
29:56It's not a running back. But I have to, you know, I started this take and I was not too afraid to say it.
30:03Colston Loveland versus Trey McBride in Dynasty. You know, straight up.
30:06Straight up. Who you got? I have them so close.
30:09I mean, I had McBride, and I saw this on the show sheet, and it's sort of like every time you start
30:16actually going through the process, I have a guy who's turning 27 this year with a guy who's going to be 22.
30:22There you go. That alone is sort of like the upside case there.
30:26Then you sort of look at quarterback situation, Caleb Williams versus the great unknown.
30:30Caleb could end up being, you know, is it crazy to say Caleb could be a top three scorer this year if it all falls into play?
30:39I don't think so. And Caleb, I think, is an elite talent at quarterback.
30:43I know there's a lot of discourse on how talented Caleb is, but I think he's really good.
30:48And I think that Ben Johnson elevates him. So you have those simple factors.
30:52The one thing with Trey McBride has going is he's an elite target earner.
30:57We've seen it for two years. With Colston Loveland, we saw it for five weeks.
31:01That doesn't mean it's not correct. I think that the days of getting Trey McBride, getting Colston Loveland plus for Trey McBride,
31:08I think there's still windows in a lot of leagues though.
31:11And I think that there'll be fewer windows maybe a month into the season.
31:15That's sort of my take on the situation. So I have them both in like single QB dynasty ahead of market.
31:22And then in tight end premium, Loveland is just a rocket ship to the moon.
31:26We saw in a FFPC tri-flex, which is the start 10 format.
31:30Colston Loveland went off at the 203 in a start 10 super flex format draft in the startup.
31:35So like the money's behind Loveland too. So like...
31:38I gotta ask, did he go behind Trey McBride?
31:40That I could double check for you. I didn't see it.
31:44I figured that at the 203, I think he did.
31:47Yeah, I'm assuming so. But I mean... 203, I think he did.
31:50No more than 13 picks away. You know what I mean?
31:54Yeah, I mean you're talking about Loveland over elite wide receivers, elite running backs, elite quarter...
31:59I mean very good quarterbacks at that range. So I will get you the board on that.
32:04But like, I don't know. I think Loveland could go absolutely bonkers this year.
32:08The argument against Loveland comes down a little bit to teammate target competition.
32:12Where, you know, there's a situation where could we see a fully healthy Roma Dunze and a Luther Burden breakout sort of
32:18cap the true target ceiling for Loveland? I'm not buying it.
32:22But I think you can make that argument. I do think it's going to be very consolidated.
32:27And my bet is on Loveland and Burden. And the Dunze foot thing scares me a little bit.
32:32I think, you know, there's some Dynasty people making the argument that it's like it's reached an inflection point and Dunze has gotten much cheaper.
32:40We should take shots on him. But I'm still gravitating towards the guys that Ben Johnson took as soon as he got there with Burden and Loveland.
32:48I just think Loveland's awesome. I have a ton of Colston Loveland in Dynasty.
32:52I have way more Colston Loveland than I do Trey McBride.
32:55So I'm hoping your tight end two over McBride thing is true.
32:59I just think Loveland's awesome. I think he could blow up this year.
33:03I think he could finish as the tight end one overall this year.
33:07But Trey McBride, I feel like, you know, some of the stuff we talked about with Jeremiah Love also is coming into play with McBride.
33:14He has the most receptions we've ever seen from a tight end in over a two-year period.
33:19He has crazy contract insulation. And he took a step forward last year as a touchdown scorer, which was something we held
33:26against him for pretty much his entire career and at Colorado State.
33:30So I have them very close. If you tell me I can get Colston Loveland plus, even if it's a small plus, I think I'm making that move.
33:38If I get a Colston Loveland straight up for Trey McBride offer, I think it's roster specific.
33:43If it makes sense for me to get younger, I'm absolutely making that move.
33:47But I think they're close. I think they're both behind Bowers for me.
33:51Check it out. So last year, if you take both the regular season and the postseason together, which, of course, I'm doing
33:58to illustrate Colston Loveland because he did kind of blow up in the playoffs.
34:02But those were real NFL games. And as a matter of fact, they were real NFL games that I would argue mattered even more.
34:09You know, they sort of showed their trust in Colston Loveland in the playoffs when he was able to blow up.
34:16And if you take all NFL games from last year and you look at yards per route run, which is a fairly OK metric.
34:23And my point is here is that, you know, we didn't see Loveland playing as much early on.
34:28And then when he did play more snaps, he was checks notes.
34:32Dope AF. That's what I have. Very, very dope.
34:35Very dope. I don't know what that means, but that's what I have written down here.
34:39So dope AF that he was fifth in the entire NFL and yards per route run behind Dalton Kincaid, Tucker Craft, George
34:46Kittle, Sam Laporta ahead of Trey McBride. And, you know, look, Trey McBride ran a lot more routes.
34:51You know, he ran 700 routes, basically 695 routes.
34:54But isn't that kind of the point with Trey McBride is that we're getting there a bit on volume, a volume that
35:01was fueled by Jacoby Brissette throwing left and right on a team that was losing by a ton.
35:06That's also got Michael Wilson there. Michael Wilson was no per target per per route run phenom last year.
35:12He was a counting stat Jerry Judy all star.
35:14So I do think there's a little bit of regression there.
35:18You know, you wouldn't project Colson Loveland to run 700 routes.
35:21I mean, Trey McBride to run 700 routes this year.
35:24I would take the under, right? Yeah. You know, so right.
35:27So the sort of the target rate and all that.
35:30Marvin Harrison Jr. comes back. He turns 27. Look, I love Trey McBride.
35:34But when you compare that to Colson Loveland, who on a per route basis was more productive than Trey McBride last year.
35:41He was also PFF's third rated tight end and receiving grade.
35:44I think the dude's probably just awesome. Like, you know, if you remember, Theo, me personally, this is not feeding my old takes.
35:51My old take was fade these guys coming out of the draft.
35:55You remember me saying that. I was not a Colson Loveland, Tyler Warren draft him early in the first round person.
36:01That's just I was unsure. I'm less unsure now.
36:04I'm very sure that Colson Loveland is going to be potentially the number one target in Chicago over Burden and Adunze.
36:10And if that's the case, this could be absolutely bonkers if he's able to stay healthy.
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36:59All on Fox 1. Stream now. Yeah, I think, you know, based on all the efficiency stats, you know, you're talking about,
37:05I think a lot of smart people are on with Loveland.
37:09130 target season with Loveland might be worth more than $155 for McBride this year, especially the quality offense.
37:14So, like, I mean, I get it. I mean, I think that at the end of the day, Loveland is phenomenal.
37:21And I think he's going to take a huge leap forward this year.
37:25And I think that if, you know, you want to rank him at tight end two in Dynasty, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
37:32I do think Trey McBride, though, a lot of the stuff we're talking about, though, it's two years, though.
37:38It's not just last year for him. Right. It's taking that big step forward where he's had the massive season in 2024 as well.
37:45So, like, the sample size with him is strong.
37:48And I do think if you're talking about just, like, the market, the Dynasty marketplace, everybody wants to get some Loveland right now.
37:55And there's way more McBride sellers than there are literally no one selling Loveland.
37:59Like, good luck going and getting a Colston Loveland.
38:02Yeah. So, I'm with you, though. I do think, like, having as much Colston Loveland as possible is great.
38:08And I think this could be the year. I think there's a chance he's tight end one overall this year.
38:14I think he's fantastic. I think Warren is also interesting where he's sort of just in his own little mini tier here.
38:20But if we're looking to sort of gain another guy who could get a ton of, like, a huge target share for
38:27his own team, things are kind of lining up for Tyler Warren there.
38:31And there's way less steam with him than there is, you know, Loveland.
38:35And certainly, few people are bringing up the, like, Warren-McBride discourse as well.
38:39So, it's sort of like Warren's also sort of an arbitrage play for Joe McBride.
38:43And you can get Warren plus in a lot more leagues than you can Loveland plus if you have your sort of conviction.
38:50And I sort of put Fannin in with Warren a bit.
38:53I know you know I love Fannin. The other guy that I think is interesting further down that I'm not sure exactly
39:00what he is, but Gadsden, you know, dude, Gadsden in best ball and redraft right now is like, what's that ADP?
39:06Have you seen this? Like, this is ridiculous. Yeah, it's absurd.
39:10I've talked about it. Where Ronda Gadsden, when it first came out, and we first had, like, best ball ADP, like, post-Super
39:16Bowl, Ronda Gadsden was like tight end nine. And everybody steamed him up, and everybody's like, this is it.
39:22You got, you know, and then when Mike McDaniel first gets there, people are like, you know, we're going to get, like,
39:29a Johnnie Smith type usage for Gadsden. Gadsden's going to be that guy.
39:32And then it was just like a slow drip, a slow, slow drip where Gadsden keeps getting pushed down and pushed down and pushed down.
39:40I think that the drafters were maybe a little too enthusiastic to put him at tight end nine.
39:45But I think where he's going now, where he's behind Chigakonkwo, and he's like tight end 17.
39:50He had 660, was it 660? 650 receiving yards last year, which was excellent.
39:55Like, you know, David Njoku's done that like two or three times in his career.
39:59Gadsden did it as a rookie. It was top 20 receiving yard season all time for a rookie tight end.
40:05And he showed the ability to put up spike weeks, not like theoretical spike weeks, like actual weeks that helped you win in fantasy.
40:12That's right. Now the latest one is there's Charlie Kohler steam out there where people like Charlie Kohler.
40:18And I think it's just everyone is trying to find, like, ways to get in on the Chargers offense this year because we believe in Mike McDaniel.
40:26We believe in Justin Herbert. And we see Lad McConkie's price has gone way up.
40:30Omarion Hampton's price has gone way up. So it's all these, like, tertiary weapons.
40:35Even Quentin Johnston's prices steam way, way up. But I think, like, a Rondé Gadsden, it's a really fun click in best ball and redraft.
40:42Oh, yeah. But in Dynasty 2, it's like this guy, like, players who do what he did as a rookie, a lot
40:49of times they take that big next step forward in year two.
40:52So I think Gadsden, it's like a super cheap price tag right now in literally all formats.
40:57And he just keeps getting more and more beat up as the summer moves along.
41:02It's like everybody likes every Charger except for Rondé Gadsden, though.
41:05Yes. I'm with you a thousand percent. It doesn't make any sense to me.
41:10I actually think, you know, a lot of what you said there was you were echoing the, you know, the devil's advocate conversation, why people were fading him.
41:18I think the real reason that you should even be considering the fade is probably the other wide receivers, mainly QJ, you said.
41:25Yeah. Because I do think that, you know, those other guys, Kohler doesn't play the same position as Rondé Gadsden.
41:31They don't play the same role. Then zero times will they be like, you know, running a play that features Rondé Gadsden.
41:37But, you know what? Actually, Kohler instead of that will zero times that will happen because they don't run the same position there.
41:44One's a bigger blocking tight end who provides value in the running game and can leak out and catch something if he has to, Kohler.
41:52The other guy is a seam stretching weapon who can rip your heart out and take one, you know, for 70 yard touchdown.
41:59Charlie Kohler will never be threatening the, you know, safety.
42:02It's just not going to happen. And so I know Njoku was that.
42:06He's not that anymore. I think he's a bit more of a possession type, reliable, can kind of play both of those roles.
42:13And I think he's sort of just that veteran, you know, hey, you need a couple guys in the room.
42:19You don't have a one man tight end room.
42:21I thought the room came together nicely. The rug really tied the room together.
42:26You know, Kohler doing what he does. Njoku doing what he does.
42:29Now, the question is how much playing time will Gadsden get?
42:32How many routes will he run this year? How many routes will he be able to run on a game by game
42:39basis when you've got Trey Harris, Quentin Johnson? Quentin Johnson likely to play some of that slot.
42:44Will they go Harris, Johnson, Ladd, and then a Kohler Njoku type?
42:48Or will they go, you know, QJ on the outside with Ladd and then Njoku and Gadsden?
42:53Will Gadsden be able to get that type of playing time where he's the sort of featured slot?
42:58I don't know. That's my only concern. And that seems to not be tight end 19 in best ball concerns.
43:04Yeah, I know. I agree with you. And it's sort of, again, we talk about like this overly cautious approach that some drafters are having with certain players.
43:13Like, you know, believe what you see with your own eyes in certain situations.
43:17And like if it is a heavy formation and we see like a lot of heavy personnel and they're also going to
43:24play Alec Engle the ton at fullback this year.
43:26Then like Gadsden could be like one of only three wide receiver options.
43:30In addition to like whatever we're getting from Hampton and Mitchell on a lot of packages and routes.
43:36So there's a chance that Gadsden could really beat his ADP.
43:39And the cheaper he gets, the opportunity cost is lower for you.
43:43And it's also the better chance he has to beat his ADP.
43:46Like tight end 9 would have been really tough for him to do.
43:50That was sort of like, you know, we mentioned Akankwo.
43:53It's sort of like Akankwo heading into year 2.
43:56We saw him get really steamed up. We saw Greg Dolcich get really steamed up that year.
44:01But now you've got Gadsden down in a range where if you miss, like what's the harm?
44:06Yeah, exactly. It's like what's the harm? And in Dynasty, I want to have access to Gadsden as well because he displayed sort of rare traits.
44:14And we've got Mike McDaniel who's a tight end whisperer recently.
44:17Where like what was Darren Waller and then they end up getting Darren Waller and they're using him on a really high usage role like off the couch.
44:26Jonu Smith was certainly not steamed up by anyone.
44:28He was like a tight end 26 that year in redraft and ended up finishing as like a top 5 tight end.
44:35So like we've seen McDaniel be able to elevate tight ends and Gadsden's just super cheap right now.
44:40So it gives you access. Oh, and also those spike weeks, those happen with Justin Herbert.
44:45So it's not like he did that with some backup quarterback and it was like just some random spike week.
44:51He did that with Justin Herbert. So a lot of reasons to like him, especially with the price tag so cheap.
44:57Yeah, absolutely. And to your point, one more thing, I'm going to put a bow on this.
45:02But, you know, Darren Waller had the highest A dot in football last year.
45:07Aranda Gadsden was number seven. He played a lot like that.
45:10Colson Loveland, by the way, number three. These guys go down the field and make plays down the field.
45:16You know who you're never going to see on that list was Chig Okonkwo or Jonu Smith.
45:21OK, so those two guys are not the doppelganger.
45:24It's really Darren Waller. You mentioned it, how they used them in Miami under Mike McDaniel.
45:28I think that's more likely what you'd want to see from Gadsden.
45:32If they see him in that Waller role where he can stay healthy and play.
45:36I mean, remember, Waller ran like I think he ran like 162 routes last year.
45:41That's it. I mean, he actually returned value because he was so, so good.
45:45He was actually, you know, I think per route he was one of the best.
45:50But nonetheless, I think Gadsden is that more than he is those other two guys that people are comping him to.
45:56So I agree with you a thousand percent. And we had last year at this time, like in the in the in
46:03preseason, it was sort of a throwaway quote. But you had both Greg Roman and Harbaugh both sort of comping Gadsden to like a Mark Andrews.
46:10They made sort of some Mark Andrews comp. So it's like, you know, people see what they want to see with Gadsden.
46:17But a lot of like some of those comps I saw.
46:20I heard somebody sort of make a Ladarius Green where we got like maybe overhead.
46:25Like we've we've missed on guys like this before.
46:28But usually they cost a lot more than tight end 19.
46:31But there has been when these guys hit, they hit in a major way.
46:35So it's opportunity cost, man. That's all it is.
46:38Yep. And just one last again, going back to yards per out run.
46:42I mean, he was right there. If you look at it, it goes Pitts, Bowers, Juwan Johnson, Harold Fannin, Arande Gadsden, Tyler Warren.
46:49That's that's in order. And that's between whatever, you know, one one point seven one to one point six.
46:54Oh, you know, so all the all the guys right around one six, one seven yards per out run.
47:00That's the group. So that's how he performed on a per route basis last year.
47:05Mr. Ronda Gadsden. I mean, he's not being viewed in any way with those guys.
47:09And I think Juwan Johnson's another guy that's kind of like that.
47:13But we're not going to talk about Juwan Johnson right now.
47:16I do. Yeah. What a show. Yeah. Tell me more about this one hour on Juwan Johnson.
47:21Yeah. As a matter of fact, Oscar Delp, I could talk about, get excited about because there's some, you know, some who knows what there.
47:29But I did draft Oscar Delp on my Scott Fishbowl team because, you know, tight end premium.
47:34Why not? You ran pure last year in the Fishbowl.
47:37This year you got to. Yeah. You were like, weren't you like top three for like a lot of the season?
47:43Yeah. Yes. I was basically top 20 the whole season, too.
47:46Like I never like dipped out or I didn't spike really.
47:50I just had a dope team the whole way.
47:52So, yeah, it was a good run. Of course, you don't win the thing because it's impossible.
47:57But I took your guy in the first round.
48:00I took Puka Nakua with like the fourth overall pick who looks pretty good in Fishbowl scoring.
48:05I had the fifth pick overall. I didn't do any homework.
48:09I just like, I'll take something in the middle.
48:11And I was like, oh, four would have been a lot better.
48:15I could have gotten Puka. Anyway. So, what I did want to ask, though, is one of the players that I had
48:21mentioned that I wanted to, you know, lily pad off of Bucky Irving.
48:25I mentioned this on the Dynasty Underground this past week was to Basial Tootin.
48:30I see Basial Tootin as having probably more ceiling than Bucky Irving, probably lower floor.
48:34Although, I don't know. Maybe. I'm not even sure what the floor is with any of these guys.
48:40I mean, it feels like the floor is zero.
48:42I mean, if we take the, you know, 80-20% outcomes, you know, sort of take all the nonsense out, just catastrophic injury and things like that.
48:50Maybe even the floors are the same. I don't really know.
48:53My point is, though, that I think that the upside is all there because, you know, Basial Tootin is explosive.
48:59He's going to be given, I think, the lion's share of the opportunity unless he's bad.
49:04If he's bad, that changes, I think. Right? Obviously.
49:07But I think they're going to try and find out if the dude is good.
49:11What are your thoughts on Basial Tootin heading into this season?
49:15I mean, galaxy brain, it feels a little bit like Chase Brown year two, where we had Zach Moss and then now Zach Moss is Rodriguez.
49:23And it's like, you know, you find reasons to sort of like these big, Moss was a little more well-rounded.
49:29Moss had that running back one run. He was a third-round pick.
49:32So, you know, this is not like shaded Zach Moss.
49:35But we sort of had Chase Brown, who was the unknown upside guy who had like the limited sample size from his rookie year.
49:42And then he just completely exploded. It was a little bit of a Zach Moss at the beginning of the season, but
49:49Chase Brown like last 12 weeks of the year.
49:52But with Basial Tootin, I think that the Rodriguez threat, first of all, we'll see at training camp just how healthy Rodriguez is.
49:59Where it's like, is he fully ramped up? Because he's new to the system.
50:03Basial Tootin is not. And Basial Tootin had a leg up because he was apparently very good at OTAs.
50:09And a lot of the vibes coming out of OTAs were really good for Basial Tootin, whereas Rodriguez misses time.
50:15So it's like, for me, Tootin has a leg up on the backfield competition as it is right now.
50:20And I think if we look at that Liam Cohen running back role, Tootin has a chance to catch more passes than he's being projected for now.
50:28And I think that's the big one there. Can Basial Tootin take a big step forward as a pass catcher with his sort of explosiveness?
50:36So for me, Tootin is in a really, really interesting spot.
50:39You know, this one is tough for me because I've heard a lot of people talking about this Chris Rodriguez as a problem for some other running back.
50:48In this case, it's Basial Tootin. I don't mean to denigrate Chris Rodriguez.
50:52I'm sure he's a wonderful person. And if we're, you know, remember, I don't hate players.
50:56I hate ADPs. Hail to the king. If everybody was saying Chris Rodriguez is a bum and he can't play, I'd be coming to his defense.
51:04But because of the way that they're talking about him, unfortunately, I am in the position to tell you that you're crazy.
51:11Because this is a guy who's played three NFL seasons and has seven, seven targets and has never rushed for more than five yards to carry.
51:19I mean, what are we talking about? His first two years, he had 200 and 100 total yards.
51:24Like last year, he got to 500 yards. And that was like, hey, watch out for Chris Rodriguez.
51:29I don't, I legitimately don't even understand what people are talking about when they say Basial Tootin should be worried about Chris Rodriguez.
51:36Like this is, this is the one thing that I don't even understand.
51:40Because for me, I always say this, there's got to be somebody in the backfield.
51:45Who would you, I don't think there's another backfield.
51:47I'd rather have my young up and coming stud running back in than this one with Chris Rodriguez and LaQuint Allen.
51:54It's like there's nobody there. And yet somehow the, the, the conversation has become lots of competition now.
51:59No, there's not. Am I wrong? I mean, I think there's been some like big bowl cases for Rodriguez, but you nailed it.
52:06It's the pass catching. Like he's been a complete zero in the pass game.
52:10Can Chris Rodriguez get there with a bunch of rushing touchdowns this year and go like full on, like LeGarrette Blunt, New England while random season.
52:18I don't think so either. I mean, he sort of is what he is.
52:22And the, the Washington commanders, like beat reporters, they liked him.
52:26He was certainly trending up for a time. And we can make an argument that maybe the Ja'Cory Kroski merit production from
52:32like the very end of the season. Maybe if that went with Rodriguez, you'd have a little bit more of a sample size of what he could do.
52:41But I'm with you. I've been like completely dismissive of this situation for better or for worse.
52:46If anything, it's creating a value for, for Basial Tootin.
52:49Now, I don't think Basial Tootin is perfect, but I think we talk, we talk about just like Chase Brown isn't perfect.
52:55Like if we're trying to name our top 10 most talented running backs in the NFL, as much as we like Chase
53:02Brown a lot, neither one of us would probably say that's one of the most tentative.
53:07But he's in Cincinnati with a, with a, with a very good quarterback next to him who's willing to check down to running backs.
53:14And he's explosive. And he's explosive. And that's all it takes is Basial Tootin.
53:18Do I think the volume will be the same as Travis Etienne last year?
53:22No. But I do think he'll get the, the high value touches on, on receptions.
53:27I think he can, I don't think Rodriguez getting the goal line work is some given either.
53:32I think Tootin can earn that role too. Yeah.
53:35So you could have Rodriguez could be a sort of like a, you know, a low calorie touches between the twenties guy to sort of relieve Tootin.
53:43I think that's what he is. But Tootin could end up being the one who cooks with the, you know.
53:49And like I said, there's the, I just said it.
53:52There's no guarantee that Tootin's any good, right? Like, like he could just be not good, like not good enough to be that.
53:59That's, that's, that's the fear. It isn't Chris Rodriguez.
54:01Because this is my point. If, if Basial Tootin is any good, like if he's good, then Chris Rodriguez doesn't matter.
54:08The only reason that Chris Rodriguez, Chris Rodriguez has a Basial Tootin problem.
54:12And if he sucks, then Chris Rodriguez might be something because they'll need somebody to be good at this.
54:17We do know that Basial Tootin made some splash plays and some wow plays last year where it was like, hmm, well, that looks pretty good.
54:25Yeah. Right. We saw that, but we don't know on a down to down basis, whether or not he's capable of being a pro.
54:32That's what we don't know. That's what I would, that's the only riddle that if you just tell me that, then I already know.
54:40So, you know, so this is, this is the way I see this very clearly.
54:44Yeah. It's, I mean, there's been some people sort of critical of like, does Tootin have the vision?
54:50Like again, maybe he doesn't, but again, a lot of guys from year one to year two do take big leaps.
54:56We saw it at the running back position with, with many guys.
55:00And I think Jacksonville, like Tootin really survived the off season where we thought maybe they'd bring in an, I mean, ATN could have returned.
55:07They could have signed a guy who was more well-rounded than Rodriguez.
55:11So Tootin dodged. Yeah. And the Jadarian price rumors where we thought Jacksonville maybe would be the team to get price.
55:17It's anything but that. Or any other rookie back too.
55:20They didn't bring in. There's no Jonah Coleman there.
55:23No. And you mentioned the Chase Brown. I had sent a tweet that, you know, we talked about Rashad White was another
55:29one who did the same thing after one year.
55:32James Cook. That's a great call. Nobody remembers that James Cook.
55:35I was anti-James Cook. I was like, James Cook, little guy can't, you know, he's a, he never did anything at Georgia.
55:42How's he going to be wrong? Ramondre Stevenson kind of did this after year one.
55:46Isaiah Pacheco kind of did this after year one where we weren't sure.
55:50He was a sixth round pick. You know, and then all of a sudden he's the lead back.
55:56We've seen this type of thing happen before. And not all of those backs, especially a couple of them, Rashad White, James
56:02Cook was flawed in his own way. Although some people really liked him.
56:06They were right. But Pacheco and Rashad were the two were like, eh, they're not very nuanced.
56:11That's why they were later around. But it didn't matter.
56:14They still got on the field and made plays.
56:17So I do think that that's what I'm seeing here with Basel is, look, he's got to be really bad to fail
56:24here because he's going to be given a lot of opportunity in my opinion.
56:28Yeah. And I think the offense is going to print.
56:31I think we sort of believe in that offense being able to.
56:35They were last year. I think, could they take a step forward or at least maintain what they did last year?
56:41I mean, multiple Jaguars could be good fantasy assets this year.
56:44But I think it begins and ends with Tootin.
56:47They're going to try to get a lot out of him.
56:50Here's my I'll leave you with this on the Tootin situation.
56:53If Tootin were to play the sort of Travion Henderson role for Jacksonville and Chris Rodriguez were to play the Ramondre Stevenson role in Jacksonville from last year.
57:02Right. That's pretty good. No, not at all. Right.
57:05That's pretty good in that offense. I really do.
57:07I think that that's enough for Basel Tootin to be RB 20 to 25, just like Travion was last year.
57:13And I think that's kind of the floor usage.
57:16The sort of, you know, I don't think it's going to be way worse than that again, unless Basel either injures himself
57:23or he's terrible and we didn't see that coming.
57:25But I think that that's kind of like, I mean, you would not love that as a Basel drafter, but you'd take it, so to speak.
57:33And I think there's room for more like sort of what we think Travion can be this year and what we think that that New England backfield.
57:41Yeah, it would be it would be Mondray without the pass catching.
57:45Of course. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. So, yeah, not a bad run out for a Henderson type.
57:50Right. Exactly. Exactly. And where you're getting them. Let's let's finish on this.
57:54Just just I want to ask comparing, you know, right now, whether we even compare Basel to him, but R.J.
58:00Harvey. Yeesh, I, you know, me, man, all last season before the draft, I was an R.J.
58:05Harvey fan, loved R.J. Harvey. Think he's, you know, was grossly undervalued heading into the process.
58:10I think it overvalued. He got picked in the second round.
58:13Um, I thought that caught me off guard in the in the in the NFL draft.
58:18And then he was going in the first round of our rookie drafts.
58:22That was ahead of where I had him. So now he you know, I felt like I was way ahead of consensus pre NFL draft, pre rookie draft.
58:30And then all that happens. And I'm behind. I've been behind consensus on R.J.
58:34Harvey this whole time. And I find myself there yet again.
58:38He's an older prospect. I think he's gonna be like 26.
58:41He's just a couple of months younger than Javante Williams, for fuck's sakes.
58:45Um, and we're talking about a player who has now a couple of bodies to deal with.
58:50And one of them, J.K. Dobbins, we're sure is awesome.
58:53We're not sure he's healthy, but we know for a fact he's dope.
58:57And then another one who looks very durable, who doesn't look like he's going to get hurt.
59:02Dude is going to talk about a scatterbow comp.
59:05This is a big dude. Uh, Jonah Coleman, who also might just as straight up be better than R.J.
59:11Harvey as an NFL running back. Yet R.J. Harvey still in the top 30, even in best ball and in the top 25 ish in dynasty running backs.
59:19Miss me with all of this stuff. Theo, what about you?
59:22I mean, this is a situation where the markets pushed him down about as much as they can, considering he had 12 touchdowns as a rookie.
59:30And people are, people are going to pay for counting stats no matter what.
59:34Um, but yeah, I mean, the pressure's on. It's not just that they got Jonah Coleman.
59:39It's that they were considered to be one of the main Kenneth Walker destinations.
59:43Denver certainly was in the mix for David Montgomery.
59:46Uh, and then they end up with Coleman. So I think they, Coleman's going to have a real opportunity.
59:52Coleman's really one of the, almost like one of the skeleton key players to watch out for in NFL training camp, because
59:58you could just see a situation where he's a buzz guy that gains ADP value in read raft.
60:04And could he just straight up overtake R.J. Harvey?
60:06Like Jonah Coleman was a good prospect, not jumps off the page athletically type guy, but it's that combination of size, the
60:13ability to sustain volume and the ability to be an opportunistic pass catcher out of the backfield.
60:18Like he looks good catching the football. Um, and I think the Denver coaching staff likes him.
60:23So R.J. Harvey, the best bet is that he figures out like a role where he's like the pass catching specialist back in this backfield.
60:31Um, and, but I think it's going to be J.K.
60:34Dobbins from the start. And I think there's a chance Jonah Coleman can overtake everybody by the end of the season.
60:40But I think Jonah Coleman versus R.J. Harvey is one we need to watch out for in the preseason.
60:46Like how much loyalty do they have to Harvey?
60:49How much do they like, like Harvey internally? They have a new offensive coordinator in Denver as well, which is another X factor.
60:55Um, but it's the, the, the vibes are not great at all when it comes to Harvey.
61:01And you mentioned the age thing where like it's, it's not, none of it's great.
61:05None of it's great. Um, it's almost like we talked about like the beginning of the show, like the market is, is
61:12being, is being pessimistic, but I think there might be a little bit more room to run.
61:17I think he could fall a little bit more.
61:19Look, if he was a second round pick from last year and he was turning like 23, he was like 22 right now.
61:26Yep. I'd be like, give him some time. Like, you know, obviously they brought in a veteran.
61:32I think he's better than Jonah Coleman. Yada. Yeah.
61:34Also undersized. Let's add that to the frigging pot.
61:37And to quote the great Chris rock, a man you mentioned loyalty, a man is only as loyal as his options.
61:43Remember it, you know? So, um, you know, just saying they're, they're going to be loyal to whomever is healthy and playing well.
61:50If Jonah Coleman is just straight up better than they're just going to play them over RJ Harvey.
61:56That's how this works. This isn't like one of those things where like, well, we golly, I really like RJ Harvey's mom.
62:02We should just, you know, that's not how this shit works.
62:05Um, you know, so they drafted him with a second round capital cause they thought he was probably a little bit more special than he is.
62:13I, I wouldn't have even done that. And I was like the RJ Harvey hype train guy over here.
62:19So yeah, I think that they probably are like whoopsie daisy more than anything.
62:23And when have we ever seen 12 touchdowns, not repeat itself that that's, that's in the bag this year.
62:29Just put that in the fucking cart cart because that's happening.
62:32Right. I mean, there's no way he doesn't get to 12 touchdowns.
62:36Am I right? I mean, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a tough putt, tough putt for you.
62:41I mean, what are we talking about? Like, like touchdowns receiving touchdowns from a running back.
62:46We're going to, that's what we're banking on. Like, look, the, the fantasy points here in this situation is not something I'm looking at.
62:53I'm looking at what is the, the reasonable amount of usage he will get.
62:57If everybody's healthy Dobbins is that you hear Dobbins.
63:00He's like, I'm going to be the RB one, all the league.
63:03Like, yeah. I mean, and that's where Dobbins started last year.
63:07And I think that's what Dobbins will start out with.
63:10I mean, it's just a matter of how much can Dobbins hold up, but I think it's really a training camp.
63:16If we start the vibes on Jonah Coleman could be excellent in training camp.
63:20And I think that would be really bad news for Harvey.
63:24Yep. Okay. All right, buddy. Well, I, I told you, I'd keep you to a tidy hour.
63:29I've got a lot to do. I've got to go, um, you know, finish off my, um, my, uh, mid state fair, um, sweat.
63:36You know, I, I basically was out until like 12 last night, 12 midnight.
63:40I'm old now, you know, riding like rickety, very dangerous, uh, you know, mid state fair carnival rides with my kids.
63:46Got to get to the chiro, get to the chiropractor.
63:49But I took four, uh, ibuprofen last night before I went to bed.
63:53I was like, this is not, this is not right.
63:56So yeah, I was in a lot of, a lot of damage.
64:00Speaking of damage, tell everybody the damage you're doing to the fantasy space over at, uh, over at your new home.
64:06Tell us everybody where they can find your stuff.
64:09Cause many of my listeners are definitely fans of yours for sure.
64:13They want to know where they can find all of your new work.
64:17So please share. No, I really appreciate that. So it's Roto wire fantasy football podcast with Theo Gremminger.
64:22You can find that anywhere you get your pods, uh, Roto wire, YouTube, all my stuff is going up on Roto wire, YouTube.
64:29That's been like a, something we've really grown really quickly, like immediately out of the jump.
64:34Um, and then all of my dynasty stuff is going to be up at rotowire.com, including my dynasty rankings, all my redraft rankings, all my articles.
64:41Uh, we've got some dynasty rankings. Those are coming very soon.
64:45You can get access to a rotowire.com subscription. The code Theo 20 gets you 20% off.
64:50The cheapest option will get you access to my dynasty rankings once they're up.
64:54Um, so yeah, man, really appreciate it. And also look for, for Mr.
64:58Mr. Jax Falcone over here coming on my show on Roto wire YouTube sometime in August.
65:03Absolutely. Yeah. I can't wait. Uh, you make the call.
65:06I'm there. Uh, thank you so much, Theo. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, to a harder, harder working person.
65:12And I love you, brother. I love you. You're the man.
65:15Thank you so much. And on behalf of everybody here at the undrafted, on behalf of everybody here at OTC, on behalf
65:22of the greatest podcast producer to ever walk the earth, Mr.
65:25Michael P. Duncan, shout out to Smitty. You have been joined by the great and prolific Theo Gremminger.
65:30I am Jax Falcone and we are. That refresh you've been putting off until the right deal came along.
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