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Dynasty Underground - QB Competitions and Training Camp Injuries

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

1 hr 32 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jul 23, 2026
Published
Thu, July 23, 2026
49
Player insights
38
Players mentioned
Topics
Carson BeckFernando MendozaBrock BowersBucky IrvingDeshaun WatsonLadd McConkeyMarvin Harrison Jr.Michael WilsonSean TuckerAdam RandallAnthony RichardsonBijan RobinsonCalvin RidleyCarnell Tate
Player analysis

Player insights

49

Adam Randall

NegativeRole76:54

The source identifies Adam Randall as a unique Ravens rookie situation worth monitoring; the Ravens' ownership conducted research and made the pick personally, and the team has new coaching staff that may influence how they deploy the player, making his role and usage a training camp watch.

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Anthony Richardson

PositiveSleeper51:44

Viewed as a low-cost dynasty asset with tantalizing upside; if he gets on the field, he instantly becomes a top-10 fantasy QB weekly; worth rostering for free in dynasty given the ceiling, similar to Justin Fields' late-career opportunity; the moment he starts, he's a league-winner type play.

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Bijan Robinson

PositiveRole17:06

Bijon Robinson is described as an absolute monster in the Falcons offense. The source notes that Robinson's talent level is so high that the quarterback situation (Tua vs. Penix) has minimal impact on his fantasy value; he should produce regardless of which QB starts.

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Brock Bowers

PositiveProjection41:34

The source describes Brock Bowers as a God and notes he could receive a high target share similar to JSN's 40%+ with Sam Darnold; Bowers' versatility and role in the Raiders offense position him well for production when Mendoza eventually starts.

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PositiveProjection42:35

Could receive a high target share similar to JSN's 40+ percent of Sam Darnold's targets; versatile enough to line up outside and in the slot; though Fernando Mendoza may not facilitate that level of volume, the setup is bullish for Bowers' fantasy ceiling.

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Bucky Irving

NegativeRole59:32

Situation is dicey; late-round pick, undersized, only one season of production, and injured; Kenny Gainwell is a capable backup with fresh talent; the two are closer in prospect quality than the market perceives, creating a 50-50 split risk; Sean Tucker also brought back, suggesting a three-headed backfield; ADP around 501-509 makes him a sell candidate.

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NegativeValue104:07

The source recommends selling Bucky Irving based on ADP trajectory; his startup ADP at the end of March was around 501–503, and remained in the 509 area, suggesting his draft price is inflated relative to his role in a three-headed backfield.

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Calvin Ridley

NegativeProjection9:00

Calvin Ridley's training camp hype from last year (running routes in shorts) did not translate to on-field production. The source uses Ridley as a cautionary example of how viral training camp clips can create false optimism. Ridley was a sell opportunity during the hype window, not a buy.

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Carnell Tate

NegativeProjection9:00

Carnell Tate is cited as an example of training camp hype that should not be overreacted to. A single one-handed catch in shorts during training camp does not indicate future NFL success. The source warns against buying on this type of hype and recommends staying disciplined with process rather than chasing viral moments.

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Carson Beck

PositiveValue14:00

Carson Beck's dynasty rookie draft value is correcting upward; he was drafted in the early-to-mid second round in early drafts but has since settled into the mid-to-late third round, suggesting his value was initially underpriced. The source believes Beck's value is now more fairly priced and represents a buy opportunity compared to earlier ADP.

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PositiveRole24:42

The source expects Carson Beck will get opportunities in Arizona due to Brissett's holdout, the team's likely four-win projection, and the organization's eventual need for a first-round QB; Beck is described as a pretty good prospect with lots of college starts, though the source notes he 'shit the bed a little bit' in the championship game.

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PositiveValue75:15

The source views Carson Beck as a value opportunity in Arizona, suggesting he is being drafted further down the board than warranted; the speaker explicitly wants to take advantage of his draft position and acquire him, indicating confidence in his upside relative to ADP.

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Colston Loveland

NegativeValue61:01

Used as a comp example for dynasty value arbitrage; viewed as closer in talent to Trey McBride than the market perceives; can be leveraged in trades to sell down from McBride and acquire other assets; example given: selling McBride and Bucky Irving for Loveland plus a better asset.

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Daniel Jones

NegativeRole50:57

Participated in spring workouts and appears to have the front seat on the Colts starting job; being monitored heading into training camp due to Achilles tear suffered in back half of last season; his mobility is a key part of his game, so recovery status is critical.

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Demond Claiborne

PositiveSleeper75:48

The source identifies DeMond Claiborne as a Minnesota running back to monitor, noting he will not start the season but could emerge later; the speaker suggests buying him early at a discount and waiting for positive training camp/preseason rumors about how the Vikings view him, positioning him as a potential playoff-run contributor given the age of Aaron Jones and health concerns around Jordan Mason.

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Derek Carr

NegativeRole55:54

Contacted by multiple teams seeking a perfect situation; likely looking for a role where he'll get starts, not just a backup gig; ranks in the top 15-18 NFL QBs if healthy; the 'perfect situation' is most likely a starter role that opens due to injury (e.g., Aaron Rodgers-type scenario).

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Deshaun Watson

NegativeRole32:00

Deshaun Watson is the cemented starter in Cleveland despite Shadur Sanders closing the gap; the source notes there's uncertainty around Watson given injuries and his past, but his cerebral ability and knowledge of running an offense give him an advantage over Sanders, and he will get the shot.

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PositiveValue34:00

The source views Deshaun Watson as a very inexpensive dart throw in dynasty startups, noting he's being drafted in the 19th round or later despite having asymmetrical upside; the source is happy to take him at his value in almost every league and notes his cerebral ability to run an offense gives him an edge over Shadur Sanders.

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Drake London

PositiveUsage17:06

Drake London benefits from Michael Penix Jr.'s hyper-targeting tendencies; Penix heavily favors London in the passing game. London's volume is secure if Penix starts, though his upside depends on Penix's health and the Falcons' quarterback situation stability.

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Fernando Mendoza

NegativeRole38:02

Fernando Mendoza is definitely getting some starts in 2024 as the Raiders' first overall pick, but the source does not view him as a contender-level starter in super flex leagues early in the season; the source had zero Mendoza in 20+ leagues and sold the pick, viewing him as found money only if drafted late.

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NegativeProjection39:52

The source believes Tom Brady has a big voice in the Raiders organization and preaches against having young quarterbacks start early; the source estimates Mendoza may not play until week 10 or 11, and notes that starting him early without weapons makes no sense.

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PositiveProjection41:34

The source notes Mendoza is built right and is tied to Kubiak, which is a long-term edge; the source also notes that Brock Bowers could receive a high target share similar to JSN's 40%+ target share with Sam Darnold, providing weapons for Mendoza when he does start.

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Harold Fannin

PositiveProjection32:00

Harold Fannin smashed as a rookie for the Browns, and the source highlights him as part of a well-drafted offense that includes two new wide receivers and young talent like Judkins.

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J.J. McCarthy

NegativeRole44:05

Had a rough rookie season and is unlikely to win the Vikings starting job over Kyler Murray; was the first QB in recent memory to fail in Kevin O'Connell's offense, which is a bad sign; still has some upside as a prospect but the take is weakening as evidence mounts against him.

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Jacoby Brissett

NegativeRole22:14

Brissett is holding out for starter money in Arizona with only $1.5M guaranteed; the source believes he's seeking guaranteed security rather than an extension, and expects the Cardinals will likely guarantee him around $5M to keep him as the starter, though the holdout creates uncertainty about his role.

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Jalen Nailor

NegativeRole39:52

Jalen Naylor is mentioned as a potential target for Fernando Mendoza in the Raiders offense, though the source does not provide specific analysis of his role or production expectations.

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Jameson Williams

PositiveValue105:07

The source acquired Jameson Williams (along with Omarion Hampton and Travion Henderson) in exchange for Malik Neighbors and a two and three, characterizing the deal as full freight for a healthy Neighbors, indicating Williams has trade value.

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Justin Jefferson

NegativeMatchup49:02

Was not happy with J.J. McCarthy's play last year and inability to get him the football; Kyler Murray is not known for consistently targeting elite WRs; ADP has dropped to 5-6 range instead of top-3, reflecting the transitional QB situation; even that ADP feels hopeful given the uncertainty.

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Kenneth Gainwell

PositiveRole60:00

Signed by Buccaneers to be involved in the backfield; as a prospect, he was solid and comparable to Bucky Irving; afforded himself nicely in previous opportunity; likely to see meaningful touches in a three-headed backfield with Irving and Sean Tucker.

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Kirk Cousins

NegativeRole38:02

Kirk Cousins is expected to get the early start in Las Vegas as a stopgap for Fernando Mendoza, the first overall pick; the source is monitoring how close the gap is between them, noting that if Mendoza plays well, Cousins could be benched within three weeks.

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Kyle Pitts

PositiveUsage17:06

Kyle Pitts is a key weapon in the Falcons offense under Kevin Stefanski's system. Penix hyper-targets Pitts, and Stefanski's play-action and under-center schemes should create more opportunities for the tight end. Pitts is positioned to benefit from the offensive coordinator change.

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Kyler Murray

PositiveRole43:59

Expected to be the Vikings starting QB; Kevin O'Connell appeared coy about the decision in a recent interview, suggesting Kyler will start; has contract incentives that prevent tagging and motivate him to play; likely to start majority if not all of the 2025 season despite historical lack of winning elsewhere.

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Ladd McConkey

PositiveRole70:11

The source confirms Ladd McConkey is the clear number-one receiver in the Chargers offense under new offensive coordinator Mike McDaniel. McConkey is "not really that hurt" despite minor injury concerns, and is expected to be fully healthy. McDaniel's offensive scheme is expected to enhance McConkey's production.

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NegativeInjury70:11

Ladd McConkey is dealing with slight hamstring tightness during training camp, but the coaching staff has indicated there is nothing to worry about and he is expected to be full go when camp starts. The source notes this is not meant to alarm but emphasizes the importance of monitoring coaching staff communications regarding injury status.

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Marvin Harrison Jr.

PositiveValue28:25

The source is betting on Marvin Harrison Jr. at value, drafting him everywhere in best ball and redraft formats and liking him in dynasty; the source believes his valuation is light and he's better than current market expectations, though he may not return the value once projected from his rookie draft.

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PositiveMatchup28:27

On-off splits show Michael Wilson's production is significantly worse when Marvin Harrison Jr. is on the field, indicating Harrison gets target deference and is the primary option in the Cardinals offense.

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Michael Penix Jr.

NegativeRole17:06

Penix is expected to win the starting job in Atlanta; Kevin Stefanski's preference for under-center play and play-action schemes aligns better with Penix's skill set than Tua's shotgun-heavy background. Penix hyper-targets Drake London and Kyle Pitts, making him valuable for those pass catchers if he starts. However, injury history is a significant concern—he has suffered multiple ACL injuries.

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Michael Wilson

PositiveRole28:27

Michael Wilson's on-off splits with Marvin Harrison Jr. are poor, suggesting he receives less target deference and opportunity when Harrison is on the field; the source is fading Wilson due to concerns about a downside career arc.

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NegativeValue29:34

In dynasty, the source traded Michael Wilson and received Travis Hunter and a 2027 third-round pick, indicating a preference for Hunter's upside over Wilson's sustainability given the on-field dynamics with Harrison Jr.

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Omar Cooper Jr.

PositiveRole73:45

The source identifies Omar Cooper as a rookie receiver to watch, noting intrigue around the targets available behind Garrett Wilson on the Jets; the speaker has accumulated significant Omar Cooper shares and is hopeful he returns value, positioning him as a depth chart opportunity worth monitoring through training camp.

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Omarion Hampton

PositiveValue105:07

The source acquired Omarion Hampton (along with Travion Henderson and Jameson Williams) in exchange for Malik Neighbors and a two and three, characterizing the deal as full freight for a healthy Neighbors, implying Hampton has value in the trade market.

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Puka Nacua

PositiveBreakout11:00

Puka Nakua is cited as an example of a player where the drumbeat (organizational signal) was obvious and worth acting on during his rookie year. Unlike viral training camp hype, the consistent organizational messaging about Nakua's role and usage was a reliable indicator of his breakout potential.

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Quentin Johnston

PositiveRole70:51

The source reports that news around Quentin Johnston has been "nothing but glowing" regarding his after-the-catch ability; the coaching staff is "really liking Quentin Johnston and what he's been doing" this offseason, and he "at least gets first crack at the two spot" behind Ladd McConkey. With Mike McDaniel as offensive coordinator, Johnston's role and production upside are expected to benefit similarly to McConkey.

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Riley Leonard

PositiveRole52:34

Receiving positive reports from training camp; likely the backup QB to beat out Anthony Richardson if Daniel Jones falters; has a hive of supporters in the dynasty community; probably a better prospect than Richardson but the upside ceiling is lower.

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Sean Tucker

NegativeRole60:49

Brought back by Buccaneers, suggesting they want to keep familiarity in the backfield room; likely to be involved as a goal-line back; part of a three-headed monster with Irving and Gainwell to keep all backs fresh.

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PositiveRole103:49

The source indicates Sean Tucker is being brought back and could serve as the goal line back in a three-headed running back committee, suggesting the team wants to maintain familiarity and keep all backs fresh.

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Tre Harris

NegativeDepth Chart28:16

The source indicates that Quentin Johnston is getting first crack at the WR2 role over Trey Harris this offseason, though the source speaker expresses personal affinity for Harris. The depth chart positioning suggests Harris is behind Johnston in the pecking order for 2024.

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Trey McBride

NegativeValue61:01

Viewed as closer in talent to Colston Loveland than the dynasty market perceives; can be sold in packages to leverage the value gap; example given: selling McBride and Bucky Irving for Loveland plus a better asset to capitalize on the perceived gap.

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Tua Tagovailoa

NegativeRole17:06

Tua is competing with Michael Penix Jr. for the Falcons starting job under new offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski. Tua may have a slight efficiency edge and benefits from Stefanski's play-calling, but Penix is expected to be favored long-term. Tua's concussion history is a concern for durability.

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Full transcript

Episode Transcript

1,095
0:00So we experienced a flood in our basement. There was a plastic cap on a metal pipe.
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0:46So book your trusted home help today. That's $15 off your first task using promo code PLAYER with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com.
0:53This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome.
0:56You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome?
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1:03Like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.
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1:15There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required.
1:18Compatibility and availability varies 18+. And O'Connell kind of made a face and didn't respond.
1:23Oh, McConnell. You said McConnell. Did I say McConnell?
1:26Why do I have McConnell? I wrote McConnell on the show sheet too.
1:30Who is McConnell? There's no such name. Talk about who the f*** is that guy, huh?
1:35Who the f*** is that guy? I'm like, who the f*** is McConnell?
1:39That zany Canadian host, huh? Sites and sounds and edges found.
1:42You will now get down with the underground. Post it up on the OTC Fantasy YouTube channel and your favorite audio platform.
1:49Dynasty Underground is back and we missed you. I am Trav Hostin and Wes Koston.
1:54And wouldn't you know it, we got Jax Falcone, of course, and Jax, we will get to you, sir.
2:00But Joe is in the motherland picking olives, might be practicing some Greco wrestling with some dudes on the beach.
2:07We don't we don't know what he's doing out there, but we have our first guest.
2:12Yeah, it's not practice for him. Yeah, that's old hat.
2:15That's old hat. We have our first guest, Jax.
2:18And I almost like, yes, that's what I'm thinking, right?
2:21I almost don't know if I consider him a guest, because if you have entered the OTC ecosystem, you know who this man is and you love him.
2:30We got Curtie joining the show in place of Jax and we couldn't be more stoked about it.
2:35Curtie, how are you doing? Welcome to the underground.
2:38Thank you for that intro. And I am doing fabulous on this evening here to record with both of you looking forward to the show.
2:46And I really hope Joe is enjoying himself on his vacation like he deserves it.
2:51And I think in his honor, there's some merch coming up for is there ever is there ever.
2:57Hey, I just wanted to do the Conor McGregor, not the thing where he breaks his knee.
3:02Oh, but the one where he goes, the fuck is this guy?
3:06You know what I mean? When Curtie comes on, you know, it's like got people just like, you know, they don't know him yet.
3:14They're like, who the fuck is this guy? Yeah.
3:16But this guy's O.G. Curtie. He's the man. Absolutely love him.
3:20Doing some awesome stuff for us at OTC and just doing some awesome stuff for himself, you know, just.
3:26And for the listeners, he's got a cool little following starting.
3:30And yeah, he's just more of our community ambassador and does some live streams and got a show coming out and just an all around awesome guy.
3:38I can tell you firsthand we met by doing a pro am together.
3:42That's how I met Curtie. He was donating to a charity and all that sort of awesome stuff that made him an awesome guy.
3:50But I drafted alongside of him and we got unlucky, Curtie, in that league.
3:54We got unlucky. But your process was sound. And I remember when we would discuss process, that was when I was most impressed.
4:02Obviously, you know, the picks can go south in any redraft that you ever do.
4:06But I remember thinking this guy really knows what he's doing in way of process.
4:11And that's what wins over time. So Curtie is a winning player for those reasons.
4:16Yeah. Yeah. And that's why we're stoked that he is a part of the fabric of OTC fantasy.
4:22And Curtie, yes, you mentioned it. Actually, we've got some new merch designs out and I'm excited to share with the people.
4:29Yeah, we just kind of had like we want to start doing some more regular merch drops to have some stuff that kind of is signature OTC.
4:37And I think we've done that with this merch drop.
4:40Shout out to Duke's for most of the designs.
4:43He does all of that work and he is top notch at it.
4:47And we've got some new collections out there. So you'll see we've got the OTC classics.
4:53Curtie's got one of the hats on right now if you're watching on YouTube.
4:57And then we've got a couple new collections. So you, if you listen to underground, you know about the pineapple bit with
5:04Joe and his foray to Vegas, almost getting caught on the wrong side of a little swinger situation.
5:10That now can be memorialized in merch. So you'll see the pineapple swingers collection on the shots.
5:15Yes, you'll also see the Barry McLaughlin section. So Duke's designed a little mascot for us.
5:20He's got a foot. He's like a little football player with the old time helmet and the clock face.
5:26We have dubbed him Barry McLaughlin. So you can find the Barry McLaughlin collection.
5:31We've got some accessories on there, too. So go check it out.
5:34We're running a giveaway. The details can be found on our social media platforms.
5:39So go check it out there and whichever platform you're following us on.
5:43Follow those steps and you'll be entered in a draw to win.
5:47By the way, the the the hat with the upside down word pineapple.
5:51It's sort of a black with the gray hat and the black lettering upside down word pineapple is a dope looking hat.
5:58And I will be buying that, of course. And I'll be wearing it on the show.
6:03And I would just say that I think a lot of y'all will would want this hat and want to wear this hat.
6:10And I think the best thing about this hat for sure is that there's only two people that could recognize anything about this hat.
6:18There's all two types of people. One would be someone who knows the show.
6:22And that would be amazing if somehow or another you were wearing this upside down pineapple word hat out in the world.
6:29And someone was like, yo, Kuva Takis or something, you know, drop the fucking joke wave on your ass.
6:36That would be amazing. The only other person would be an interesting foray into some sort of evening of romance with another couple.
6:43So I think either way, it's win win. Yeah, for sure.
6:46There's a couple of limited time items on there as well.
6:50And that draw that I mentioned for what you're getting with that actually is you're getting 20% off of an order over $100.
6:57But not only that, you're getting a free year subscription to OTCFFB.com, which is $100 value.
7:02So really cool little thing we got going on.
7:05We wanted to kind of bring some attention to the fun merch that we've got.
7:10And of course, get some more people checking out the site.
7:13So check out our socials. You can find all the details there.
7:17But we got to get into it, boys. We got Curtie on to talk about some banger fantasy takes.
7:23And that's just what we're going to do tonight.
7:26We're going to be talking about storylines to monitor through training camp, fellas.
7:30So kind of an important time of dynasty season because this is where we're kind of seeing how those long shots that
7:37we've been calling are coming through the debris of their depth charts.
7:41We're looking at some of those injured vets who might be coming back from injury, who maybe have had some additions to that team at their position group.
7:50So we're going to talk about a bunch of that stuff tonight, guys.
7:54And I'm excited to get into it with you guys really quick.
7:58I just want to mention some dates here. Rookies do report to training camp.
8:02So I think it's important to kind of get it out as far as timeline.
8:07This show should be out about the 16th or 17th.
8:10So rookies report on the 17th. I think that's the earliest date they can report.
8:15Not every team's rookies report that day. And then veterans generally report July 24th and 28th or between that range.
8:21Right around the corner, guys, on August 6th, about three weeks away is when the preseason begins with the Hall of Fame game.
8:29So it is heating up for us here, guys.
8:32And I think it's important for us to dig into the weeds of some of these NFL teams.
8:37But I wanted to start with kind of an overall conversation about what our listeners should do as they go into training camp.
8:45And we're hearing all of this news, all of this hype.
8:48We've got these players that we like. Maybe the heartstrings are being tugged a little bit.
8:53But, Critty, why don't we start with you as our not so guest?
8:57Are there any rules that you would tell the listeners to follow as far as what to do with this training camp hype?
9:05Maybe acting on it or not acting on it and how you maybe approach that stuff every offseason?
9:10That's a really good question. And I think it just boils down to how you want a dynasty.
9:16Jack's alluded to it in the beginning of the show, talking about process and process.
9:21So if you play by process, it's my process to not overreact to training camp hype.
9:26In fact, it's quite the opposite. Like, I don't know, Carnell Tate makes a one handed catch over the middle and everyone's
9:33like, oh, my gosh, he's the best wide receiver ever.
9:36Like, put him on the block. Send out some trades using the OTC app.
9:41You know, I would not be buying unless it just depends on the news.
9:45But don't overreact. Stay in your seats. Real football with actual pads, not shorts on gets played in September.
9:51So do what's best for your roster before. I can't I can't help but think of the I almost said Calvin Ridley,
9:58which is would have been the same thing. But Calvin Ridley, Calvin Ridley, same same difference.
10:03There's no different. But Calvin Ridley from last year when he was running some routes and stuff and was like doing all
10:10the routes in, you know, in shorts. And someone was like, kids got to eat this year.
10:16I'm like that there. He may or may not.
10:18He certainly didn't. But that was not a signification of him going to be good or not.
10:24This is the worst possible thing that you can take action on in terms of buying that hype.
10:30If you want to sell on that hype, that was an unbelievable sell window for Calvin Ridley when he did absolutely nothing
10:37of meaning whatsoever, except somehow his clip of running a little slant got put on the Internet and people jerked off to it.
10:44That was like literally how crazy it is that that's what took, you know, the Calvin Ridley bump up and it makes no sense.
10:51So look out for those opportunities in Dynasty. I would say you should be selling on every last single one of them.
10:58So, yeah, for me, obviously don't buy on that type of hype.
11:02The type of hype that I do think is important and we're going to get to some of it today.
11:09I know you probably later in the show, Trav, but is the type of drumbeat stuff.
11:14The Pukenakua drumbeat was obvious. I mean, you know, I didn't even draft a bunch of Pukenakua his rookie year.
11:20I did some, but it was the drumbeat. I was like, wait a second.
11:25This is something here that you almost want to see the water boiling.
11:29You don't want to see it, you know, right?
11:32This is what you're looking for. Oh, are those bubbles?
11:35You know, you want to hear it slowly start to roll forward and oh, Coach X said this and all of a
11:42sudden he's playing in some two wide receiver sets.
11:45And that's the type of thing that you can start to glean and take action on.
11:50We're not there yet, but when we start to see that, that's what I'm paying attention to.
11:55Mm hmm. And I think the difference between that, Jax, is the drumbeat is often often coming from within the organization, whereas
12:02the hype train is often coming from outside. Right.
12:05So some guy took his phone out on the sideline and took a video of receiver X making a one hand to
12:12grab when his quarterback threw a 50% floater to him.
12:15And that's what everybody gets hyped about. But what you got to do is and the drumbeat, you kind of follow it
12:22a little bit more than kind of act on it right away.
12:26Right. You kind of follow how it's tracking before it starts to ascend is when you really act on it.
12:32But probably like the first couple of weeks of training camp isn't the time to do that necessarily unless signs through the
12:39offseason have been leading that drumbeat up. But I think it's an interesting time for that, because, yeah, if I'm doing anything,
12:46I'm mostly selling some of these veteran players because often that drumbeat is on the young guys.
12:52Right. Jax, you mentioned Puka Nakua when he was younger.
12:55It's usually on the young guys coming up and clearing some of that depth chart debris.
13:00So I think it's good. I'll give you this.
13:03I'll give you this. Trav, like, you know, you think about just any rookie class ever.
13:08You think about where you have them ranked and what or even the ADP.
13:12You don't even have to talk about rankings. Just talk about either your rankings or ADP.
13:17The moment that you did your rookie draft, freeze it in time.
13:21And then at the very start of the season before a game is played, they're different.
13:26And then if you take that and just fast forward literally one week after one week's games, it's all different again.
13:33And if you fast forward to the end of the season, it's different again.
13:37So the point of the matter is, is that even if you're right, you're wrong because it's going to be changing and
13:44there's going to be things that happen. The key that I think there is I just want to be ahead of it
13:51a little bit like, you know, I want to trade on yesterday's values and win on tomorrow's values.
13:57Right. That's really the way I'm trying to think of it.
14:01Like, I've got a bunch of players we'll talk about, but like, I'll give an example so the listener can understand it.
14:08I'll steal from myself. Carson Beck, Carson Beck. I drafted him a couple times in like the early second of dynasty rookie
14:15drafts and it felt it felt expensive. And I was like, oh, maybe I'll back off.
14:20And I backed off and I missed him a few times, even in the third.
14:24So sometimes I draft him a second. I missed him in the third.
14:29I wasn't really sure where to place Carson Beck's value.
14:32Well, it ended up being what third round mid late third round for the most part, even right.
14:38Seld him in the second round. I think that's wrong.
14:41I think he's more valuable than that. And I'm not sure.
14:44I think the value is actually gone there a little bit now.
14:48It may be harder to get them in some situations.
14:51I'm not suggesting that Carson Beck is going to be some world beater.
14:55I'm just suggesting that his value is sort of correcting itself.
14:59And I'd rather sell or sort of transact on the old value and reap the reward of the new value of a player like that.
15:07Yeah. The context of Carson Beck to falls within this rookie class, like a normal rookie class.
15:12I don't think you want to take the quarterback taken in the third round where you're you've been taking them just because.
15:19What else are you going to take there? Yeah, that's that's the other thing that plays into it for Carson back to.
15:26Yes. Yeah, for sure. The cost is really nice on Carson Beck and we will definitely get their boys.
15:32I think that's pretty good rap though as far as not reacting too much to the hype follow that drum beat, but
15:39only when it's from inside the organization. And for those kind of veteran guys when we're hearing things, we're probably looking to
15:46sell off of hype as opposed to buy off of hype more than anything.
15:51So that's a good rap boys. I think the first kind of I was ambitious on this show sheet boys.
15:57I have been on Dynasty Underground before, but I put like four different little segments.
16:02So we'll see where we get here. We're going to talk about some quarterback competitions.
16:07And the reason why I wanted to start with this guys is because I think it flows nicely into conversations about some of these other guys.
16:15Right. Because the quarterback is so impactful, easy for me to talk tonight.
16:19Hey, Jacks, but been two weeks off, man, been two weeks off.
16:23It's been used very well for all of the OTC stuff that we've been doing in the back end.
16:29But maybe we're a little rusty on the host, Mike, but we'll go.
16:33Don't worry. I got you. I'm firing on all cylinders.
16:36These quarterbacks. As you know, I was listening to Method Man right before I came on.
16:41You were. Yeah, you were. Yeah. M-E-T-H-O-D. I'm ready.
16:44Man. Yeah. Lots to talk about here with the quarterback.
16:47So we're going to get into it. We're it's going alphabetical today, boys.
16:51And we're going to start with the Atlanta Falcons.
16:54So obviously we know that they brought in Tua.
16:57Tug of Iloa, of course. Michael Penix has been rehabbing an injury, but looks like he's getting in the area of being ready to go for that competition.
17:06So, Kurti, what do you think about the Tua Penix conversation?
17:09Do you have a lean or any of these guys who you like to roster?
17:14Tua Penix conversation. Tua Penix is I. This one's been fun because one, they're both left handed, which I think is hilarious.
17:21And to like Kevin's the fancy coming in. I liked him as a play caller.
17:26I think he did really well with Cleveland. Like he took Cleveland rounds to the playoffs, one coach of the year twice
17:33and never really had much to work with. So now he's got B.
17:37John, London, pits. We'll see who if John Dotson or Zachariah branch, maybe a lot of days.
17:43A key is a key is a key is easy for me to say, but I think Tua is going to win the starting job.
17:51I think Kevin Stefanski likes to play a little more under center and Penix was pretty much strictly from the shotgun from what I recall last year.
17:59And I think that opens up more play action, more options to get those weapons involved.
18:04If it's Penix, it's fine for those London shares that we have because he just hyper targets him.
18:10He's he did that last year. And I hope he could just stay healthy if it's him.
18:15Poor guy's gone through more ACLs and I can count.
18:18So, yeah, I think if you're if you're looking, I if I'm handicapping the the Penix to a situation, I'm probably just splitting it.
18:26I would I would just say they're probably going to each start eight games or something, you know, but that probably is.
18:33Probably won't be the way that it ends up.
18:36So you could win on the bet with one of them somehow, you know, I think Penix is the one that they'd rather see the awesome.
18:44Like if they could pick, you know, a guy that they want to succeed, it would be Penix.
18:50So I think that might lead them in that direction, especially if and or when, you know, to a struggles or God bless him if he gets hurt.
18:59I really hope he doesn't have another concussion. But, you know, but it certainly is in the cards, potentially.
19:05I think, you know, two is probably better for efficiency.
19:08Penix is better for that downfield play of London and in pits.
19:12And, you know, it's splitting hairs there at that point.
19:15Obviously, B. John's an absolute monster. So I really don't think there's a huge difference.
19:20I think maybe a little bit more volume with two, a little bit more, you know, downfield stuff with Penix.
19:26And other than that, maybe one of them will actually take a step forward in the system, as you know, Curdy points
19:33out that, you know, they're going to get the best coaching maybe they've ever had.
19:38You know, two ahead, had Mike McDaniel as an offensive coordinator.
19:41Probably ridiculous. You know, we'll see. He was but he was successful in that offense, too.
19:47So I think, you know, you know, look at two at one point was pretty efficient, even though he's not a tremendous,
19:54you know, producer when it comes to, you know, seeing the field and all that sort of stuff.
19:59He's he's a little bit kind of locked in player.
20:02But so what? They're only thrown at two guys.
20:05So I think I'd rather Penix and I think I'd probably bet on Penix.
20:10I think Penix being the guy who's not starting right now probably is cheaper than two right now.
20:15Is that is that true? I would say, wouldn't you guys think?
20:19I think I was actually looking at ADP on the site in a draft I was in recently, and I think they're only a few picks apart.
20:28Yeah, they're close. Yeah, I think that's I think that's right.
20:31But I think if you gave me a quarterback to just have, I'd probably just take Penix just because I hope I'm
20:38not relying on either one of them right now.
20:41And I'd rather see long term upside potential with with Penix over to it, although both of them are probably pretty bad bets.
20:49Yeah, hopefully that's your emergency third quarterback, not QB two.
20:52Yeah, definitely. Definitely. You are. If that's your QB two, you are trying to retool that position for sure.
20:58Hopefully one of those guys can stay healthy enough to be a stopgap.
21:02And I would probably lean a little bit for them.
21:05Both maybe. Yeah, that's I think that's probably the move to write Jacks with both of their injury history.
21:11Like it's funny in separate conversations. Kurt, you mentioned I really hope panics doesn't get injured again.
21:17He's been through more ACLs and Jacks than you.
21:19I hope to it doesn't get like do these guys even have one full quarterback?
21:24Like I think that's the scary part about this team and attaching to this offense.
21:29But I think I got my panics. Yeah, and to a tug on my panic.
21:34Put them together. They sound pretty good, don't they?
21:37Yeah, I think panics might just have a longer leash because the organization the organization wants to get a lot out of
21:44him right because he was that first round pick.
21:46But who knows what's the fancy does? I think it's almost similar to the the Vegas situation where Kirk Cousins is going
21:53to be that stopgap for Mendoza, even though panics isn't a rookie.
21:57So kind of similar trajectories for me. You know what I mean?
22:01Yeah, I do. Okay, you talk you spoke about one nookie back or if he's not so good.
22:07He could end up being crazy eyes back whichever Steve Buscemi character you prefer, but it's getting dicey as far as Jacoby Brissett being the starter in Arizona.
22:16He's holding out for starter money right now. They are staying strong in that.
22:20Why would we pay you a bunch of money when we're probably going to win four games anyway and still be trying
22:27to get that first round quarterback and get rid of you after this season?
22:32So I think it's an interesting little spot there in I don't know where the compromise happens or when it happens, but
22:39time is ticking for him to come in there.
22:41And these other guys nookie back as well. This is Carson back by the way.
22:46Just if anybody doesn't understand why I'm calling him not by his name.
22:50It's a bit we have. There's also Gardner the Hardener and I wouldn't put it past him to have that kind of
22:57veteran deference if Carson back isn't acclimating to be the guy that's right behind who they hope is Jacoby Brissett.
23:04So, Jax, why don't you make sense of the Arizona kind of quarterback situation what you think is going to happen and
23:11then kick it right on to Kurti about it.
23:14Yeah, I will starting with Brissett he he's only got like a million and a half guaranteed.
23:19So I mean he's like, what the fuck am I doing?
23:22You know what I mean? Like, am I playing for a contract?
23:26I thought I did that last year. You know, can I have a little fucking contract please?
23:32You know, so I don't think he's even asking for an extension.
23:35I think he's just asking to be guaranteed a little bit more money so he can, you know, take care of his family.
23:43And, you know, I like I get this. This is not a ton of money.
23:48A million and a half guaranteed is not a not a lot.
23:51So if he gets hurt week one, it's it's just it's rough.
23:55So I think he's looking for a little bit of starter security.
23:59Look, if you're a backup, you're less likely to get hurt.
24:02So it's hard to sort of negotiate. But when you're when you're going out there on the line of fire, it's like,
24:09look, I can just not play and get the one and a half.
24:14You know what I mean? So I see it from his perspective, and I do think they'll get something done.
24:20I think it's probably because they've got plenty of cap room, and I think they'd rather him be the starter.
24:26I think that's their plan. They just didn't really want to have to pay him.
24:31And to your point, Trav, why would they? But I do think they'll probably even if it's a small amount, you know,
24:38guarantee him five million or you know, at least it's something right.
24:42All that to say that I do think this all all spells.
24:46Carson Beck is going to get opportunities. The four wins thing you said the holdout the fact that it's like, could we just turn to?
24:54You know, look at journeyman at this point, although my favorite journeyman maybe of all time Gardner Minshew.
24:59But, you know, I have to be realistic about who he is.
25:03So, you know, look, Carson Beck, pretty good little prospect if you take away the ugly face.
25:09Right. He certainly got lots and lots of starts.
25:11And I think that Jacoby Brissett thing. We talk fantasy, right?
25:15I have no idea what that does for that locker room or the personnel, the coaches, the players, the players, the continuity
25:22if they're just like, yeah, Jacoby, like we're not going to pay you.
25:26Like, what's the motivation there? So I hope that they come to terms with Jacoby Brissett seems like really nice guy, very professional about it.
25:34And I think that'd be better for the Arizona other assets speaking fantasy terms.
25:39Yeah. Bride, Jeremiah Love, Marv, Michael Wilson, you name it.
25:42We saw what it looked like last year. To your point, Curtie, right?
25:46It is better for the weapons. So we do want to see Brissett get his bag, right?
25:51Yeah. I think a range of outcomes for fantasy.
25:54We want Brissett to be the starter for as long as possible.
25:58Turn it over to Carson Beck and see what the kids got.
26:02I hope he succeeds. Like, man, he stuck it out through college, made that championship game, kind of, you know, shit the bed a little bit.
26:10But, you know, he's got an opportunity. So get some starts, see what you got in them.
26:15And then if you really are a four win team, go take the next best quarterback in this, you know, class.
26:22I wonder if this is something where, you know, these Arizona weapons are sort of sell early in the season type bets.
26:29I mean, could they see like less production in the second half because the quarterback play is no longer Brissett or something?
26:36I don't. I'm just sort of galaxy braining here a little bit.
26:40But as you were talking, I was sort of thinking and like, is that how it's going to go?
26:46Is it going to be Brissett? They do the same thing they did last year.
26:51They're going to throw it all over the place because they're losing by a ton because they're terrible.
26:56They're going to lose again. But, you know, there's going to be a lot of offensive sort of, you know, counting stat, you know, fantasy numbers.
27:05And then they're going to be like, well, what are we doing even with Brissett putting back and maybe he's not as prolific.
27:12That would certainly be a good bet to bet that he would be less prolific than Brissett as a rookie.
27:18Right. We don't typically, you know, Cam Ward, name a name, a rookie that came out.
27:23They're generally not prolific, even if they're solid. You know, Drake may wasn't prolific in your right.
27:29You know, so I would say betting against that is probably a pretty good bet making me scared of some of these Marv bags I'm holding here.
27:37You know what? I don't think you should. Sorry.
27:40Sorry, I don't think you should be actually because I think what that almost creates another another buy window like Marv had
27:47a bit of a buy window this offseason. With Michael Wilson.
27:51Yeah, I think it's another buy window because if we look at them winning those four games or three games, they're going
27:58to be getting a top young quarterback next season.
28:01Fair enough. In a good quarterback draft. Right. So I think we're going to see, you know, maybe little ebbs and flows
28:08of what we're doing with those assets. But I think I don't know, maybe maybe it'll be crazy to be betting on Marv again next year, too.
28:16Right. Who knows after what happens this year? So I will say I don't know if I've had the take yet, but I am betting on Marvin Harrison.
28:25Junior at value. I feel like I'm drafting him everywhere.
28:28Best ball, you know, redraft. You know, I like him in dynasty a ton.
28:33I just think his valuation is off. I think it's a little light.
28:37I don't think he's necessarily going to return the value that we once thought from the from his rookie draft.
28:43But I do think he's better than what we're thinking he is now.
28:47And yeah, I mean, Michael Wilson did not. If you look at the on off splits, Michael Wilson with and without Marvin
28:54Harrison, Jr., they're ugly for Michael Wilson with Marvin Harrison on the field.
28:58So I do think that that's a little bit scary for Michael Wilson and probably spell something.
29:04Look, it only makes sense. Like, you know, Michael Wilson or Marvin Harrison, Jr., who's probably going to get a little bit
29:11more, you know, deference to use a term. Right.
29:14I think it's probably Mr. Marvin Harrison, Jr. So where do you sit on those?
29:19And he's likely better than him, too. Right. Yeah, definitely.
29:22Curdy, what where are you sitting on the Wilson versus Marv?
29:25Like I see the case to like both of them, too.
29:29Like maybe maybe Marv's the one and in garbage time, Michael Wilson's getting a bunch of stuff.
29:34I've been fading Michael Wilson because I'm kind of scared of that little career arc that he could be on.
29:40You know what I mean? Like the downside career arc of him.
29:44But where are you sitting, Curdy? Yeah. Michael Wilson and dynasty is someone that I didn't have a whole heck of a lot of.
29:52But when I did last year, I sold on this offseason.
29:55So like in context plays and everything, if you're rebuilding, whatnot, I traded Michael Wilson and got back Travis Hunter in a twenty seven third.
30:03Just because I don't think Wilson could sustain that, which I'll probably be wrong.
30:08But but take the upswing upside swing on Hunter.
30:11I definitely prefer Marv over Michael Wilson and dynasty.
30:14Just the deference of the name, the draft capital and the stats.
30:17Like Jack said, when they're both on the field, Marv is the one getting scoring fantasy points.
30:23Yeah, 100 percent. I think boils down to we do want to see Jacoby Brissett back.
30:28And everything that I was reading actually says that like the fan base does want him to come back.
30:34So I love that point that you made about the locker room, Curdy, because when these guys want that quarterback there and
30:41they see that their organization is not feeling that as well when his salary is disrespectful.
30:46I think that's a pretty rough move for their faith in you as an organization.
30:51So that wraps up the Cardinals. We are going to get into I think we have four more quarterback situations break down
30:58here, but we are going to give you some words from some sponsors and we'll be right back.
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31:42And we're back on Dynasty Underground. Thank you for joining.
31:45We're talking training camp hype and some of the teams that we are watching.
31:49So some of these storylines, we've already talked about the Arizona Cardinals and Atlanta Falcons quarterback competitions.
31:55We've got some more quarterback competitions and other stuff to talk about on the show.
31:59We're going to go to Cleveland and talk about the quarterbacks there because, I mean, it could be a competition, but I don't know, guys.
32:07I think the first question I'm going to pose to you guys is that question.
32:12Deshaun Watson, Watson versus Shadur Sanders. Is that a competition or do we think that Deshaun Watson is kind of the cemented starter for the organization?
32:20Despite the fact that maybe we want them to give Shadur a shot to Curti.
32:25How much money is Deshaun Watson guaranteed? A lot.
32:28Still a lot. Yeah. Like you just got to do it.
32:32You have to. The dude was it at one point in time.
32:35There has been injuries, all the other shit he's gone through.
32:39But like there's pieces on that offense. Harold Fannin smashed as a rookie.
32:43They added two wide receivers in the draft. Judkins is young.
32:46They've drafted really, really well. Even though they traded Miles Garrett, they still got back Jared verse plus another pick like they they're going to be young.
32:55They're doing some fun stuff. So shout out to all the Cleveland Browns fans listening.
33:00Like hopefully you're on the up, up, up and up from not being on the up, up, up and up.
33:06And I think it's they're going to be their best bet to win football games.
33:11Just even if Deshaun isn't physically able to do what he was able to do years ago, his cerebral and wherewithal how
33:18to run an offense, I think will trump or be the advantage to the others in that quarterback room.
33:24Mm hmm. I agree. He's going to get the shot.
33:27I was reading a blurb that said that Shador is closing in on Deshaun.
33:32Whatever. What does that mean? I don't think it means anything.
33:35I think it means that there's probably some uncertainty as there well should be in Deshaun Watson in that building.
33:41Right? No. You know, right. We're full steam ahead with this dude.
33:45So I do think that there's going to be a short leash for lack of a better term.
33:51I do think that, you know, they're not sure as we are all not sure.
33:56But I do agree. I've been saying this is a great bet.
34:00Like he seems so cheap in every format. You know, I you know, I'm in the Scott fishbowl.
34:05I'm I'm at round 12 or something like that.
34:08And quarterbacks are somewhat devalued anyway. But like he's so far down there on the list.
34:13And I'm just like, when do I'm playing the Deshaun Watson chicken because I'm going to try and draft him.
34:20But I also want to like, I don't want to overdraft him.
34:23You know, I'm just waiting. And it's like, maybe he's good.
34:27Maybe he's not. But like, it's just so, so free for him, you know?
34:31So I just see him as such this like very, very inexpensive.
34:35Dart throw. You know, what were we talking about, Trav in the in a couple shows ago?
34:41He was like in the 19th round of startups.
34:43Is that right? Was that I don't remember if that's exactly right.
34:47Something like that. I can check on the site right now.
34:51But yeah, it was it was way back there for sure.
34:54It was way back there. And I just think like, I mean, look, yeah, he's probably nothing.
35:00But every every player taken after the 19th round is probably nothing like, you know, they're all terrible bets.
35:06That's why they're back back there. But, you know, his asymmetrical upside, if you just looked at like, who has the highest
35:13ceiling of all the players drafted where Deshaun Watson gets drafted in a startup and behind him, it's Deshaun Watson, you know?
35:20And yeah, it's not a fun pick, really. But I got no problem with it.
35:24Just throwing because I got quarterbacks out the wazoo on most of my rosters.
35:29Curti, I'm not sure about you, but, you know, I'm just happy to have him on a roster.
35:35I'd be I'd be more than happy to take him on my roster at his value in almost every league.
35:41No, I I'm in a 14 team super flex startup.
35:44I got him at the 17 three right 14 right 14 team.
35:48That's exactly super easy. Like, you know, I was shocked.
35:51But yes, it's just another quarterback to have on your roster and flip them.
35:56Start them. Maybe he's good. Right. Exactly. Do whatever.
35:58Maybe he rocks. Maybe he's just immediately terrible. Who knows?
36:02Who cares? But yeah, I'm off chance at all.
36:05He starts one, two, three, four games and he's good.
36:08You're like, whoa, you can just flip them right then and there if you don't believe if you believe I guess you could hold and get the production.
36:17But either way you win. Right? Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
36:20Important to note, Curti, a Houston Texans fan. So Curti was was there for when Deshaun Watson wasn't a bad guy.
36:26And you said it, Curti, like he he wasn't necessarily always like a run his face off quarterback either.
36:33He was more opportunistic. I remember back in the day podcast and digging some red zone rushing stats and like a lot
36:40of his production was from like opportunistic red zone rushing touchdowns and stuff like that.
36:44So he's like, I think he can do it even if some of that mobility is sapped, because that's not the only
36:51way that he succeeded back in the day. He needs to roll out of the pocket and get outside and stuff like that.
36:59But I heard he was he was he was asking some of his coaching staff, you know, what is this tush push?
37:06He said just interested in, you know, yeah, for sure.
37:09Yeah, maybe we'll see some of that. Tell me more.
37:12Hey, Quinchon, you're looking nice today. Tell me about what is this?
37:16No, it has nothing to do with. Never mind.
37:19Let's not run it then. You know, you didn't understand exactly what it was.
37:23Leave the towel on the sideline. Why does the center have the towel?
37:27Is it for the tush push? I'm not sure.
37:30What are we doing here? Anyway, moving on. Moving on this.
37:34Okay, I mentioned it before and I don't think.
37:36Oh, by the way, it was also Mr. Mr.
37:39Curdy was also present when my New England Patriot dog walked CJ Stroud in the playoffs last year, too.
37:45He's right present for that as well. Yeah, right.
37:48Yeah, you got one more thing, Jacks, or? No, that's it.
37:52Joe's not here. Joe's not here. So yeah, yeah.
37:55I don't know if this one's a competition either in Las Vegas.
37:58We talked about we mentioned it previously. Mendoza and Kirk Cousins.
38:02I think it seems pretty clear that Kirk Cousins probably gets the early start.
38:06But what I'm monitoring is just how close that gap is, right?
38:10Like what if Mendoza comes in and plays awesome?
38:13He's the first overall pick. You know, Kirk Cousins is a little bit.
38:17Yeah, whatever. That gap then closes. So maybe Kirk Cousins, you know, has to play his ass off to be starting through
38:24like three weeks or something like that. How do you think it shakes out Jacks as far as Mendoza getting starts when he gets starts?
38:32He's definitely getting some this year. You know, it's crazy.
38:35I was wondering about this. I haven't seen anything yet.
38:38I think this is one of those that I don't know how much it matters.
38:43I don't know, you know, I don't know how much you're looking at Mendoza as on a contender out of the box
38:50starter in your super flex leagues either. You know, like I think he's sort of found money.
38:56Maybe maybe you draft him if you quote unquote needed a quarterback.
38:59I suppose there's some teams hoping that he's going to start.
39:03That would be a tough thing to be going into the season, quote unquote, needing it from Fernando Mendoza.
39:09That'd be a bad plan. That's a team that should probably be trading for Geno Smith, Deshaun Watson or name.
39:15You know, Stafford would be a great, you know, whatever somebody to be a quarterback to there to offset the time you're
39:22waiting for Mendoza as we've waited for all these guys.
39:25I, you know, bring up Cam Ward again, but so I don't know that it matters all that much.
39:32You know, because you're not depending on Kirk Cousins or Mendoza in almost any situation.
39:36I have literally zero Fernando Mendoza in 20 something leagues.
39:39I just didn't see the value of him as a as an early, you know, 102 type player.
39:45I just sold that pick and get me the hell out of there.
39:49So same wavelength with you. I had zero Mendoza and then my buddy Grindbird text me.
39:54They need a one more guy for another startup.
39:57And I don't know how to use the word.
40:00No. But basically in that draft where I'll get circle back to Mendoza is I traded out of all my picks until
40:07the 602 for future capital and moving back and moving back.
40:11And my first pick was Fernando Mendoza, which fits that build perfectly.
40:14Right. Like that's what you want for that kind of team where you're going to go productive struggle year one or, you
40:21know, not want to score a bunch of points or just not need to plan on meeting Mendoza.
40:27If you drafted Mendoza early in your rookie drafts, you have your plan.
40:31Like Jack said, I am someone who is reading now like I think Tom Brady's got a big voice in that organization
40:38and he just preaches that it's like the big no, no to have these young quarterbacks start.
40:44I'm not going to sit here and say I'd be surprised if Mendoza doesn't play at all.
40:49But right. What to put a number on it like week 10 week 11.
40:54That's fair. Just range of outcomes like interesting. Who is he throwing to like Jalen Naylor?
40:59Is he getting open trade talkers cool for those splash plays?
41:02Yes. Brock Bowers is a God. You could just hand it to a gente.
41:07He I just think it's going to depend on putting him at him in a position to win knowing he's the future of that organization.
41:15And I don't know if the Raiders think they're going to win this year.
41:19Maybe they do. Maybe they don't. Maybe they sat hard start.
41:22It's a really good point. So it's a really good point to to the to the weapons like, you know, throwing him
41:29to the proverbial wolves with no weapons early on makes zero sense to me.
41:34Yeah, I you know which quarterback. I mean, I mean, I meant Drake may excuse me.
41:39I meant Drake may. I mean, you know, I just try and think about these quarterbacks that have sort of navigated some
41:46some bad weapons and still been successful. It's really it's really hard to do.
41:50And, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I do think, though, that Mendoza he's built right.
41:56I'll say that. Oh, my gosh. He's built right man.
41:59That kid is. I didn't want to pay the early rookie draft price because, again, is it a four point pass in
42:06touch on League six point all that jazz. He's tied to Kubiak, though.
42:10Like, yeah, that's what you want long term. That's that's kind of an edge.
42:14I think you had Angel on the undrafted recently.
42:17He was talking about Caleb's tied to Ben Johnson and Tyler Shuggs now tied to Kellen Moore.
42:23And it's that's what we want to start to buy into these Shanahan Johnson type coordinators, coaches that are going to be there.
42:30They're not going to go anywhere anytime soon because those guys are a dime a dozen or.
42:35Yeah. Harder to find. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
42:38Yeah. That's kind of where I was going to go, Kurti, is that that's where I think I would almost counter the
42:45who is he throwing to argument in that Sam Darnold just gave like over 40 percent of his targets to JSN.
42:52Right. And so I could see a similar kind of set up here with Brock Bowers.
42:57Obviously, it's a little bit different with JSN moving outside a bunch, but Bowers can do some of that versatile stuff, too.
43:04I don't say I don't think he's going to have that type of year or like Bowers could have that type of year.
43:11But I don't know if Fernando Mendoza is the guy who does that for him fully.
43:16But I think I'm maybe a little bit more bullish.
43:19I checked. I only have one share boys. It's in the underground league and it wasn't.
43:25It was a 103, not a 101 or 102.
43:27So I'm cool with that. And that team needs work so I can wait for you.
43:33Fernando Mendoza on that one for sure. I sent you a trade offer in that league, by the way.
43:39Oh, did you? I got to check that out.
43:41Whenever you get a chance. I'll go check it out at otcffb.com.
43:45I'll fuck up. Because we can do that. This one's more fun to talk about, but also like recent conversations may have
43:52alluded to who's going to win this one. And it's in Minnesota with Kyler Murray being brought in with the incumbent, J.J.
43:59McCarthy, after a rough, rough rookie season. Yeah. And the recent stuff that I'm talking about, boys, was Kevin McConnell was on a recent interview.
44:07And I think the host was alluding to Kyler being the starter.
44:11And McConnell kind of made a face and didn't respond.
44:14You said McConnell. Did I say McConnell? Why do I have McConnell?
44:18I wrote McConnell on the show sheet, too. He was like, who is McConnell?
44:22There's no such name. Talk about who the fuck is that guy, man?
44:27Who the fuck is that guy? I'm like, who the fuck is McConnell?
44:31Yeah. Yeah. Cousin of Kevin O'Connell. What team? Yeah.
44:34Who knows? Who knows? Okay. Yeah. It's the BC Lions in the Canadian Football League, boys.
44:39No, Kevin O'Connell. What? That zany Canadian host. The zany Canadian host.
44:42So good. I love that you're the zany Canadian host.
44:46Kevin O'Connell had a recent interview. I can't remember with who.
44:49But yeah, he was kind of coy about the decision and it looked like he was trying not to say that Kyler
44:56is going to be the starter there. So like if Kyler is the starter, Jax, do you, you have been a JJ McCarthy supporter in the past.
45:05Do you think they're still covering try and pardon my wording, but like jam JJ McCarthy in there if they see any
45:12signs of Kyler Murray, not playing bad. Obviously, if he gets hurt, JJ McCarthy has to go in there.
45:18But they're going to do it, aren't they? I look, I would be still believing that JJ McCarthy has a shot in this league.
45:25I mean, it was very ugly. I'll give him, I'll give you that.
45:30And he was like the first quarterback, you know, this side of Josh Dobbs to not succeed in that offense.
45:36Like, I mean, there's like every single quarterback, you know, succeeded in that offense and he did not.
45:42And so that's a, that's a bad sign for sure.
45:45Look, I, I still think he's got the right kind of makeup a little bit, but obviously that's starting to become way, way less of a strong take.
45:54It did not look good. But I do think that they're going to be incentivized to win.
45:59And I think that's going to be Kyler to start, right?
46:03I just, I can't imagine them going any other direction than Kyler to start off the season.
46:08Has Kyler won anything ever anywhere? Really? I mean, not really.
46:11He's, we've talked about on this show a million times how, you know, Kyler is good for fantasy and he's kind of
46:18prolific and he's, you know, he's unique in those ways, but he's probably not the guy that you want quarterbacking your favorite NFL team.
46:26Like, you're not like, Ooh, I wish we could get Kyler Murray, you know, no said nobody ever.
46:32So I do think at some point, Kevin McConnell is going to have to make the decision to McSwap his ass out
46:39of there and put in, you know, somebody else.
46:42And I don't think it's going to be Carson Wentz.
46:45And I do think they're going to try to maybe see what JJ McCarthy has.
46:50Sorry. But, but I do. I think that's the buy.
46:53I mean, let's put it this way. Who here thinks that we're going to see, you know, 17 Kyler Murray starts.
46:59I can't imagine this guy. That's not me. What about you?
47:03I think he's going to start the whole year.
47:06He's motivated in his contract. He put some stipulation where he can't get tagged.
47:10So he wants to get the bag again. Um, I still believe in JJ McCarthy.
47:15I think he's just young who knows what everyone's going through, but Kyler for fantasy.
47:20Yes. And it's going to boil down to our, the Vikings winning football games.
47:24That division is the bears, the lions and the Packers.
47:27Which might be the toughest in the NFL next NFC West is up there too, but I, I don't see him getting benched for play.
47:35And he's now incentivized to pretty much play through any injury that he can.
47:40Um, he's betting on himself. I hope it works out for him.
47:44He's always seemed like a guy who that going back to that whole locker room thing, kind of like his attitude.
47:50Um, just from perception, you know, I don't know the guy at all, but that could be the only other issue.
47:57And I almost equate this to the Atlanta situation somehow because to a had all that guaranteed money.
48:03So he's playing for league minimum. Kyler's got all that guaranteed money.
48:07He's playing for league minimum. Um, yeah, both of the guys behind them perceived to be behind them are the highly drafted
48:14homegrown prospects that they want to succeed. Right. And I know that Vikings fired that GM that drafted JJ McCarthy.
48:20So that could be their scapegoat that no, this guy was stupid.
48:24Like it was not, it's not our fault. Um, mixed stupid.
48:27Oh, mixed stupid. Uh, so I don't, I would, I would bet Kyler starts majority.
48:32If not all this season, just because it's a good point.
48:36Veteran deference there too. It's a good point. Trav we were saying, you know, last year, you, you and Joe specifically always that, you know, Marvin Harrison, Jr.
48:44Had a Kyler problem. Right. And he probably did because we saw what happened when Michael Wilson didn't have that Kyler problem.
48:51He went off. Um, you know, so maybe we can see that from Marvin Harrison, Jr.
48:56Again, but if we go to the Kyler situation, I think Justin Jefferson was not happy.
49:02Happy with the way that McCarthy played last year and the way that he was able to, or not able to get him the football.
49:10But Kyler isn't exactly the guy that you'd, you know, assign with the task of, of lighting up J.
49:16Justin Jefferson, uh, you know, over and over again.
49:18Might we see Justin Jefferson weigh in on who the hell's playing quarterback there in Minnesota at some point?
49:24It depends how squeaky that wheel gets, but for sure.
49:28Like if Kyler, you know, get some Kyler it is happening and Justin Jefferson can't get an accurate pass his way to save his life.
49:36Then I'm sure he's going to be kind of vocal about it because he's itching to take this playoff ready roster.
49:42Um, through the playoffs and I don't blame him for that necessarily.
49:46Um, and I think it's kind of interesting because the, the ADP and maybe the conversation around Justin Jefferson kind of seems
49:53like it might be baking that in. I'm looking at the ADP right now, but we don't see him necessarily in that
50:00top three conversation with the likes of Puka Nakua, Jamar Chase, and whoever you have.
50:05JSN is in there. Um, you're seeing him down in that five, six conversation more so is what I've seen.
50:11Um, and I think that's reflective of the transitional quarterback situation situation.
50:15And even that feels kind of hopeful, right? Yeah, I mean, I think so too.
50:20I think so too. I think that's ceiling of his 2026 finish for sure.
50:24Um, I think dynasty brings in, you know, the longterm talent and stuff like that, where you can keep them in that
50:31range, but I think it's a year older though.
50:34Right? Yeah. Exactly. Can you imagine if they would just resign Sam Darnold, what the butterfly effect would have been?
50:40You had the guy in the building. Unbelievable. It's crazy.
50:44I was, I was, I was against it. So I would have been wrong too.
50:48So wild dude. I'm believing. I'm usually. Crazy. Yeah, for sure.
50:52Ready to be at least. Yep. Indianapolis boys, Indianapolis, Daniel Jones Jones participated in spring workouts.
50:57And so it looks like he is going to be ready.
51:00And I think he's, he's probably got the front seat on that starting job, but he is being monitored, heading, heading into training camp.
51:08You don't know what could happen. It's pretty late.
51:11Like, you know, back half of the season, Achilles tear that he had, and he's a pretty mobile quarterback as far as
51:18moving around in the pocket and breaking runs off.
51:21So do you, do we think this is another opening for one Anthony Richardson, Curti?
51:26I, I would bet no. Yeah. I would, I would, if I had to bet up like nerf gun to my head, bet Anthony Richardson or Riley Leonard.
51:35Riley Leonard is who I would bet. Oh, dang.
51:37What he did with that. What he did with that last year when a couple of spots starts before they signed old man rivers.
51:45But yeah, I hope Daniel Jones can get healthy.
51:48I was being a Texans fan. I'm still rooting for Daniel Jones coming from the giants and playing the way he did.
51:55Shane Steichen. I don't think he ever got a fair shake.
51:58It was just unfortunate that he got hurt. Was playing very well at high level.
52:03Really fantasy was bump. Like JT crazy. Tyler Warren, crazy out Pierce, Michael Pittman.
52:08And everything was going nuts. So yeah, I think it's a zero for Anthony Richardson.
52:12I hope if he's dedicated and wants to do it, I hope that he gets a change of scenery and an opportunity to do so.
52:20Mm hmm. Don't need to tap out, but I'll tap you in over there, Jacks.
52:25Yeah. I, so I kind of see this a little bit different.
52:29I, we did see Daniel Jones play well for a stretch there.
52:33I just don't think he's good. Um, I don't particularly think that he's the savior.
52:37So he's been injured. He's, I think he's iffy at best.
52:41Like, you know, if we do a draft of, you know, quarterbacks, I want quarterbacking my favorite team this year in the real NFL.
52:49I ain't taking Daniel Jones in the top 20, 25.
52:52That's for sure. Like he's a bottom five to 10 quarterback in the NFL from my seat.
52:57Um, I don't know that that opens the door wide enough.
53:01And, uh, while I don't know where Anthony Richardson is at.
53:04I would just say, I'm willing to take him on my roster for free in the event that he gets on the field.
53:11He's instantly a top 10 quarterback weekly, right? In fantasy, not, not in real life, obviously.
53:17Uh, yeah, no, but in fantasy, the moment he's on the field, he's a top 10 quarterback in fantasy.
53:23That's just the way it goes. And so having, um, a backup quarterback like that on your dynasty roster is exactly what I want.
53:30So yeah, give me, uh, you know, Anthony Richardson over Riley Leonard.
53:34Although there is a Riley Leonard hive I'm aware of.
53:37There is, I've seen it. It's real. And, uh, homeboys got some, some love out there.
53:42So God bless. Yeah. Well, Curti is filling Joe's seat very nicely because Joe is in that hive.
53:48I would believe. And there's been pause. I've seen positive reports on Riley Leonard coming through camp too.
53:54And so that's an interesting take there. Yeah. He's probably better than Anthony Richardson.
53:58I mean, to be fair, I'm not, I'm not saying that he's not, I'm just saying how much that matters is less.
54:05So because I'm not, maybe he's, you know, who knows they're both probably worthless, but I just love that tantalizing upside, especially
54:12at the low, low cost of Anthony Richardson. You're a hundred percent correct for dynasty fantasy football, low cost top 10 player.
54:19If, and when he starts it's Justin Fields all over again.
54:23Yeah. Right. I think, which we know how that one ends.
54:26Yeah. I think there is some of that too.
54:29And I think what is making the perception different is the way that he played with Steichen.
54:34And so I think him and Steichen being that perfect marriage is what's going to make them want to give Daniel Jones a shot continuously if he's healthy.
54:43Yeah. Um, and it'll be interesting to see what they do after this season.
54:48And yeah, go ahead. I'll give you this too.
54:51Like we, we, we gave up on Justin Fields at one point and he sort of got his chance again.
54:57I mean, think about the, the, the way we were talking about Malik Willis after his rookie year, or even after his
55:04second year or during his second year, we were like, this guy's a bum.
55:08Now all of a sudden he's got a starting gig in the NFL.
55:13So these things can change. I'm not suggesting that we should expect that to happen for Anthony Richardson, but we should expect
55:20it to be a possibility and in the range of outcomes.
55:23And for those reasons, he's worth it. You want him on your roster at cost.
55:28That's right. Malik Willis was on waivers in some leagues, depending on your size.
55:32Like wanted him on your roster at that cost.
55:35Yes. That not. Yes, absolutely. Yep. Yeah. I mean, that's right.
55:39Daniel Jones got paid and they don't have a first in 2027 now either for soft gardeners.
55:44So there's job security. Yeah, for sure. For sure.
55:47Okay. No more team situations. This is just a funny note that I actually saw come across the news ticker on OTC FFB.com.
55:54Derek Carr was contacted by multiple teams boys, and he wants the perfect situation.
55:59Yeah, I put on the show sheet in capital letters, LOL.
56:02And but I also think that if he goes to a team, he won't be going there without knowing that he's going to get some starts probably.
56:11Yeah. So we have to take them into account with super flex as our main format.
56:16What do we think? Is there a perfect situation for him boys?
56:20Like, I don't know that I'm LOL on this.
56:23I actually I mean, I think if you just ask me, look, I don't know what sort of shape he's in or how he's doing or anything.
56:31But if you just say, look, Derek Carr is as good as he could be at his age right now.
56:38That's where he's at physically and it's all good.
56:40He's all dialed in and he's going to come in and be able to play as well as he can.
56:47I would put him in the top 15 to 18 quarterbacks in the NFL as an NFL quarterback.
56:52I don't know. He's in there like probably. I mean, obviously you prefer Baker and golf and all these, you know, of course.
57:00Right. I understand that. But I'm saying like you start getting into the I don't know that he's probably serviceable, you know?
57:07Yeah. Would you rather have him or to like go him for sure?
57:11For sure. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, I don't know.
57:15He's probably you're so at some point or another.
57:18I do think he's okay. And then I would say that that special, perfect situation.
57:23I mean, he said special situation. Okay. Whatever. It's the same difference.
57:26Perfectly special. Yeah. Just like a McConnell ice cream.
57:29Yeah. Yeah. I love those. Those are delicious. So where is it?
57:33It's when someone gets hurt. Yeah. Right. That's where it is.
57:37I think it's stay in shape. Wait. Yes. You know, someone, you know, the, the Aaron Rogers cops, the Achilles situation happens
57:44for the jets or whatever, you know, like, right.
57:47It's like, Whoa, let's call Derek Carr. Bring him in type of thing.
57:51Yeah. The 2026 version of Phillip rivers is. No, it's true.
57:54That's right. As kids. I want to know who these multiple teams are, multiple teams that will remain nameless.
58:00Well, they were calling them for a coaching job.
58:03That's what that's what it was. You want to come work with our quarterbacks?
58:07Um, did you say quarterback? Yeah, I'm a quarter.
58:10Yeah. No, no, thank you. No, thank you. I can see Arizona.
58:14If the Jacoby thing goes sideways. There you go.
58:17I mean, I think they could use a fourth backup quarterback.
58:21I'm joking. I'm joking. No. Hey, yeah, it'll be interesting to watch.
58:24And I just thought it was a funny note as we were talking about quarterbacks on this show.
58:30We're going to move in guys to some injured studs.
58:33We've talked about these guys, Jack's on some of the shows, but I think things have tracked forward a little bit.
58:40Um, just a few to talk about here. Um, but Bucky Irving, and I got to give a shout out to John Leonard.
58:47Um, I mentioned him previously as a new, uh, community ambassador for the discord, but that is slowly escalated.
58:53And I actually asked him if he would like to elaborate on some of the banger data that he drops in the discord.
59:01And so now he's been writing some articles. So he's got one article already out on OTC FFB.com.
59:06Couple more in the chamber to do with dynasty best ball, which I think is really interesting.
59:12Um, so keep an eye out on the site for that, but he actually recently wrote a choose your fighter piece on Bucky Irving and Kenneth gain.
59:20Well, I thought it was interesting. Go check it out on the site, but what do you guys think about the Bucky discourse coming in Jackson?
59:29Maybe we'll start with you. And like, it's, it's dicey.
59:32It's very dicey. It's very dicey. It's very dicey.
59:35And there's other capable backs on the, on the roster, which is a problem, right?
59:39That's like, you know, it's one thing if they're just like, no, this is our first round, you know, pick type of,
59:46you know, super heavily invested in workhorse long-term reputation guy with nobody behind him.
59:51None of those things are true in this case, right?
59:54He's a late round pick undersized injured only one season of production.
59:58Dude. That's what he is with talent behind him with fresh talent and Kenny gain.
60:03Well, who really afforded himself very nicely. And look, I think they're closer in as prospects.
60:08The, you know, anyhow, I, we, I love Kenny gain.
60:11Well, as a prospect, I thought he was a really, really solid prospect.
60:15I think he was as good as Bucky Irving as a prospect.
60:19Bucky got a really good run out. He's a really good player.
60:23I'm not nothing bad, but I think they're both good football players.
60:26And I think there's probably a bit of a 50 50 split when it comes right down to it.
60:32I'm not so sure they trusted Rashad white as much.
60:36I think he's a little bit of not as nuanced a football player as either one of these guys.
60:42Right? So I think that now they have two, two of these guys.
60:46I don't know, man, I I'm, I would, I'm petrified.
60:49I am like, I was thinking about this theory that I was having, and it was the idea that I would sell.
60:56So this is, this is a brainstorm. I'm going to share with the, with the dynasty community.
61:01When you have a situation like I have with Colson Loveland and Trey McBride, where I view the difference between Colson Loveland
61:08and Trey McBride as less than the difference as, than the community thinks in dynasty.
61:13Right? That's an example. I'm just using it as an example.
61:17How do I take advantage of that? Well, if I can self Trey McBride for Colson Loveland or pick the thing that
61:24you think is closer than the, than the, than the dynasty community thinks, I'm going to use that difference to sell off another asset up to something else.
61:33I like. So the example would be, I'd take Trey McBride and Bucky Irving and sell it for Colson Loveland in something
61:40that's, we all kind of agree is a little bit better than Bucky Irving.
61:44And someone will look at that and go, yeah, that's perfect.
61:47I'm going to do that. And so, because I think Colson Loveland and Trey are super close, it allows me to get from Bucky somewhere else.
61:56And it's just a little bit of a thing that I was thinking about.
62:00And I was like, I want to mention that.
62:03So those are just things that, you know, you can have your own take on who, where that, those value gaps are,
62:10but that's how you can leverage a value gap that you see and then use it.
62:15I would be selling off this Bucky Irving situation in these types of ways to get myself just off that boat onto another, you know what I mean?
62:24You know, running back to running back here, maybe even sell down and get some profit and take a bit, another risk.
62:31Maybe there's a riskier player below. You know, again, we were talking basial tootin.
62:36I'd rather probably try and do that. You know, especially if I can get, you know, from Bucky to basial plus, that'd be, that'd be great.
62:44So I don't know. There's probably a way to lily pad off of him and still not give up too much.
62:50Yeah. I think that's a good take there for Bucky.
62:54That's it. I'm just nervous. Oh, totally. What about you, Curtie?
62:57Yeah. NFL teams can't lie to us when they're making ref picks, when they're signing players, they signed Kenny Gainwell and let Rashad walk.
63:05Like they're like, we're going to make this guy a priority and give him some money.
63:10Not to take Bucky's job, but to be involved to that degree.
63:14I mean, Kenny Gainwell, I agree as a talent was just in the wrong situation.
63:18Philly, look what he did with Aaron Rogers, who's not a mobile quarterback.
63:23Right. About 70 some odd passes. Right. That's PPRG code.
63:26Yes. So it's going to happen. I'm not going to say it's going to happen again.
63:31Right. Range of outcomes again, Baker, not mobile. And I don't have any Bucky in dynasty.
63:36Same. Same. Like, it's scary and I hope his injury stuff is all right.
63:40Like Joe would talk about, I think it was even like last year, some of the stuff that Bucky was tweeting where it's like, oh boy.
63:49And then bringing back Sean Tucker too, I think says a lot that they want to keep familiarity in that room.
63:55And they like what Sean Tucker brings and he could be the goal line back and it could be a three headed monster.
64:03Yeah. Just to keep them all fresh. So that's kind of my take on that.
64:07Yeah, for sure. And the sell on Bucky actually isn't that bad because if we look over the past couple of months
64:14at ADP, his startup ADP at the end of March was like in the 501, 503 area, still in like the 509 area.
64:22And so I'd be selling that for sure. I'd be selling that for sure.
64:26So I think that's a nice take there, Jacks.
64:29This one hurts the heartstrings a little bit, but Malik neighbors boys, Malik neighbors real chance that he's starting the season on the pup.
64:37What are you guys seeing? What are you guys hearing?
64:40What are you guys doing with Malik neighbors? Like Chase, our social intern, he told me specifically, we got to talk to
64:47Malik neighbor, talk about Malik neighbors soon because we're getting to a crucial point where we're assessing our teams going into the
64:54season, we might need that production, but he's hard to sell because you're probably not getting what you would likely want to get out of Malik neighbors.
65:02So how have you been treating it, Curti, in those leagues where you've got them?
65:07So this is a great question. I traded away one Malik neighbors share in the discord, the peace discord startup.
65:14So I traded Malik neighbors, essentially a two and a three and got back Hampton, Travion Henderson and Jamison Williams, which to me, that was full freight.
65:22Like that's full freight for a healthy Malik neighbors.
65:25I'd love to get your guys's opinion on that trade.
65:28Um, other than that, I haven't sold them at all.
65:31Actually, I was at Scott fishbowl live draft yesterday in Chicago, well in Bartlett and turned out Adam Hutchinson is in my division.
65:39So I got to meet Adam shout out Adam.
65:42Yes. Work with football guys. He's a injury specialist.
65:44He writes he's, he's amazing. Um, I took Malik neighbors in the fourth round of Scott fishbowl.
65:50I it's open bar, all the pizza you can eat.
65:53Right. I walk over to Adam. Like how bad is this really?
65:57Yeah. And Adam just spits his game with his stats.
66:00He's like, if they met this threshold, which he's blown out of the water.
66:04If they're this, he's blown that out of the water.
66:08He's like after week four is pretty much like back to who he is.
66:12And that's what works in Adam's mouth. It was something along those lines of I'm not worried.
66:17And it's a great pick in the fourth round of a format like this.
66:22I got him in the fourth of mine too, Curti.
66:25I got him in the fourth and Scott fishbowl draft too, baby.
66:29Bang. I like that. Thanks. Circle. Yeah. Shout out Adam Hutchinson.
66:32Um, circling back to that trade though. That's the only time I've sold Malik.
66:37Uh, I haven't really tried to trade for him yet.
66:40I kind of want to wait for the shoe to drop, but that he's not gonna be ready.
66:46Week one and send out offers like crazy. For sure.
66:49Going back to the start of the show with the hype stuff.
66:53Um, but what was it? What was the trade?
66:56I was getting, uh, I was getting some, uh, bevies from my wife.
67:00Nice. God bless her. What a, what a, what a gal.
67:03That's the hookup. I asked my wife to, I asked my wife to bring the dog back upstairs.
67:09She's over here. She was neighbors, a two and a three Jacks for Omarion, Travion and Jameson Williams.
67:15Wow. That's pretty good. That's good. That's good. That's good.
67:18That's good. Um, I would be, well, I'm not buying for those prices, but I think I'd be buying, uh, Malik neighbors.
67:25You know, when you were talking Trav at the beginning and you said, you know, hard guy to sell, I'm thinking because,
67:32oh, and you said, because of, um, you know, everybody's thinking about setting their lineups and stuff like that.
67:38I'm like, I can't think that way with a guy like Malik neighbors.
67:42Malik neighbors is not, I wonder what he's like on week three, four, five.
67:46I got to think about what he's like in year four, three, four, five, because this is the type of player that we agree is special.
67:55And my only question that I would be asking Adam and I probably will at this point will be based off what,
68:02you know, is he, is he going to be that guy again?
68:06Like, is it, is it more time or is it more like, I'm not so sure it ever really gets back that,
68:13you know, if that were the question, if that were the way that that would be answered, I'd be in, I'd be just heartbroken.
68:20But I don't, I haven't heard that. And I, it sounds like based off what you're saying that that's not what we think it is.
68:28So for me, week four is like, whatever, I'll just make do with whatever I've got on my deep ass dominant, you know, wink, wink, uh, dynasty roster.
68:37But seriously, you'll find a way to make something happen, especially early.
68:41Actually in the first three, four weeks, it's usually easiest because you kind of got everybody available.
68:46No bi-weeks, et cetera, et cetera, right? No injuries except for this stupid one.
68:51But, um, so yeah, I'm looking to buy neighbors, um, because I do believe that when healthy and when right, especially if
68:58he's attached to Jackson Dart, who is not afraid to throw it down the field and should be a prolific offense because of how great Dart can be.
69:07I think, um, I would say that, uh, neighbors should go back to wide receiver one overall in my dynasty.
69:13He's not there right now because it's very hard to have an injured player like that who we're unsure about at that position.
69:20But I'm also like, I'm okay sort of paying almost anything because I think that's where it goes.
69:26And, um, I, I, you know, I love this prospect.
69:29Obviously, as you guys know, we were huge team neighbors people.
69:33So give me, give me Malik neighbors at his current, current valuation for sure.
69:37Yeah. I recently threw out an offer of two 27 firsts for him.
69:41Uh, I think he's worth more than that, but obviously trying to get a little bit of a discount and that was rejected.
69:49Um, I think a sharp move by that other manager, right?
69:52Because I probably wouldn't, I don't know if I would have done that for sure, because I think he is like generational
69:59wide receiver can do it all kind of stuff in their situation.
70:03It's good. Like you said, Jackson. So we here are riding that.
70:07So I think that's fun. One other note guys, this is not too alarm.
70:11Um, but lad McConkey, I'm seeing that he's got like a little bit of slight hamstring stuff going on.
70:17Um, coaching staff said nothing to worry about. So you talk about the drum beat that we want to be listening to Jackson.
70:24We want to kind of be listening and seeing the coaching staff, um, to a degree, to a degree, of course.
70:31Um, but injuries are a little bit different though, Trav, right?
70:35I mean, injuries are injuries, you know? Yeah. Well, they said he's going to be full go for camp when it starts.
70:42And so they didn't really say he's going to be limited or anything like that.
70:46And so until I see him limited, then I'll start reacting of course.
70:51But if we do see some of that stuff crop up in training camp, the news around Quentin Johnston has been nothing
70:58but glowing as far as what he can do after the catch.
71:01We like Mike McDaniel is an offensive coordinator. So while we're stoked about what that can do for lad McConkey, maybe it
71:08does some of that for Quentin Johnston too. And so, um, just something for us to monitor as they move through training
71:15camp and lad sort of gets fully, fully healthy, even though he's not really that hurt.
71:20Question. Uh, is it foregone conclusion that it's QJ over Trey Harris in the future?
71:25I'm not obviously right now. But I use there and maybe not the future, but what I'm seeing this off season, they're
71:32really liking Quentin Johnston and what he's been doing.
71:35So I think he at least gets first crack at the two spot.
71:39Yeah. That's what I'm hearing. That's why I'm just asking the question.
71:43I kind of, I love Trey still. Give me some Trey, you know?
71:47I love him. Yeah. No, I think it's, it'll be interesting to see how they deploy the wide receivers behind lad McConkey.
71:54Cause I think it's clear. They even, there was another snippet that came out and said lad's number one, which of course he is.
72:02But, um, you know, behind him, I'd be curious to see what they do with multiple tight ends.
72:07Obviously, as they're looking that they might play a lot of tight, two tight ends.
72:12Um, you know, I wonder Gadsden QJ Gadsden's been cheap lately too.
72:16Huh? It's like, everybody thinks that it's nuts. It's a buy right now.
72:20I thought this is crazy. I took, I don't like it was a seventh or the eighth of my fishbowl.
72:27And I thought that was absolutely stealing. When we look at 20 yard reception bonus and Ronda Gadsden being that scene guy
72:34attached to Mike McDaniel and Justin Herbert right now, like get off me with your David and joke.
72:39Who has any impact on fucking Ronda Gadsden after what we saw last season?
72:44Like, come on, come on. Darren Waller was doing it.
72:47Darren Waller. With Mike McDaniel. At that age, at that age, Gadsden's a hundred times what the athlete Waller is now.
72:54And it's going to do that. It's not going to do that same role.
72:58If he's in that same role, then yeah, it's not a question.
73:02You got to go get him at this price.
73:05Yeah. I think a joke of being there is actually just good for him.
73:09You know what I mean? He's just more of something the defense has to take note of when they're into tight end sets.
73:16And so, yeah, give me Gadsden at his prices all day.
73:20I'm in the same boat. It's been wild how discounted he's been.
73:24So, I'm snapping that up for sure. Okay, boys.
73:27We're going to talk about some... Okay, we're going to ride this out with some rookies that we're watching in training camp.
73:34But first, we have to go and say some words from the sponsors and we'll be right back.
73:39And we are back on Dynasty Underground. Jax and I have been joined by OTC's very own Kurti.
73:45If you've been in the OTC ecosystem, you know him and you love him.
73:50And we've had a fun show so far. So, let's ride this puppy out, boys.
73:54I wanted to talk about some rookies that we're watching as we go into training camp.
73:59Because, of course, that's a big part of our content process is the rookie process.
74:04And albeit not the greatest class. I know there were some guys that we were looking at.
74:10And so, I'm curious to see that from what we've heard going through kind of OTAs and the spring workouts and stuff like that.
74:17But has that changed, right? Like there's some guys, obviously, we're not going to come on here and say, Yeah, we're looking
74:24for Jeremiah Love to really secure that bell cow role for the Arizona Cardinals.
74:29That's not really what we're trying to say in this one.
74:32We're looking maybe a little bit back and seeing some of these guys where that depth chart debris that I've been talking
74:39about maybe has cleared up for some of them.
74:42Jax, do you have anybody that's coming to mind?
74:45So, I want to first mention Omar Cooper. I know he's a little bit more at the top.
74:51And I've got some further down. I'm kind of going in this order.
74:55I do think the targets behind Garrett Wilson are intriguing.
74:58Is it Sadiq? Is it Cooper? Is it not them at all?
75:02Do you know what I mean? Like I'm going to be curious to see how they sort of deploy and just even the snaps, you know, early on.
75:11So, yeah, Omar Cooper is one. Of course, I've got a ton of Omar Cooper shares.
75:16I'm kind of hopeful to see him go out there and return value.
75:20I think past that, there's a couple others. Obviously, I want to see Carson back.
75:25I do think that, you know, how this whole thing plays out in Arizona is one that I think I want to
75:32try and take, you know, advantage of in value.
75:34I think if people are still sort of looking at Carson back, you know, further down the board, I think that's one that I definitely want.
75:43And then probably I'll go with this one. You know, Angela was on my program last week.
75:48I think DeMond Claiborne in Minnesota, the Minnesota running back situation.
75:52I think they're going to start with, you know, Mason and Aaron Jones and that whole thing.
75:57But I'd like to hear if they quote unquote like him, you know, right.
76:01You know, if you hear some positive rumors about DeMond Claiborne, maybe he's a guy who could find his way on the field later in the season.
76:10I don't think he's going to be out there to start.
76:14I don't think he's going to be out there in the first three, four, five, six, seven weeks.
76:19Right. I think he's more of that sort of playoff run type of player.
76:24So one of those guys that you may be able to buy early on in the season, again, still at a discount.
76:31But who knows? You know, I'd like to hear more about what they think of DeMond Claiborne.
76:36Yeah, I'd love that. I picked up Claiborne in damn near every rookie draft I could.
76:41Yeah. Just given that running back room of age of Aaron Jones and health of Jordan Mason slash just how he performed last year.
76:49Yep. One of the rookies I like to watch, this is such a unique situation to me.
76:54I'm like very curious, this Adam Randall pick. Yeah.
76:57Because the Ravens came out and said the owner, Steve Piscotti, however you say his name, did the research.
77:03This was his pick. McConnell. Steve McConnell. McDonald. Something like that.
77:07Mick Scottie. Yeah. And they have those new, the whole new coaching staff that might want to be a people pleaser to
77:14the owner and get Adam Randall involved. I know Derrick Henry's an alien.
77:18I wouldn't want to bet against him. But at some point in time, father of time will win.
77:24I don't think there's much behind Derrick Henry. Justice Hill battled some kind of neck injury towards the end of last year, I think.
77:31And then Rasheed Ali. So no big names, in my opinion, to overcome.
77:35And then I just had on here the dark throw rookie tight ends.
77:39So those guys of the Justin Jollies, Will Kazmarek.
77:42That sounds like Kazmare Pulaski. Marlon Klein, et cetera.
77:45Those tight ends later in your rookie drafts. Speaking more to these .75 or .10 in premium leagues, these guys, what I'm
77:52reading about that will Kazmarek on the Dolphins is he's pretty much the best blocker in the class and pretty freaking athletic.
77:59Played at Ohio State behind all those prolific wide receivers.
78:02If he's on the field with that wide open room, who knows?
78:06It's Greg Dolcich ahead of him and what wide receivers have consequence.
78:10So I think those are just going to be interesting to me.
78:14Probably ends up being nothing. But if you're in those deep leagues, like that dispersal I joined with you, Jack's 14 team,
78:21it's like a two-point tight end premium. Just rack up all those guys later.
78:25Do you see my tight end room in that league too?
78:29I got to check that one out. Yeah, you should check it out.
78:33Check out my tight end. Just pull that one up while I'm talking.
78:37That way you can have the tight end room in the gigantic tight end premium league.
78:42But I think that's right, though, as he's looking at that.
78:46There's just so many of these tight ends. I have them all grouped together.
78:50And to his point, they're all probably nothing. But if you go sort of as a group, there's like 15 of them or something like that.
78:58And I'll just kind of go through them. Jack Endries in Cincinnati.
79:02Gillenborg, who we love. The cyborg in Kansas City who's playing behind an aging Travis Kelsey and Noah Gray.
79:08They like the tight end there. Will Kazmarek, he mentioned.
79:11Marlon Klein, he mentioned. The other guy, Sadu – I don't even know how the fuck to say his name.
79:18The other guy in Miami, Traore. Whatever his name is, I can spell it.
79:22I just can't say it. He's super athletic. Michael Trigg, who can't jump over a box, as we pointed out.
79:28He can't jump over a dead cat or whatever the joke is.
79:32I love Matt Hibner, but there's also Josh Cuevas there in Baltimore behind a – now no Isaiah Likely and behind Mark Andrews.
79:40Go ahead. Did you say Josh Cuevas? Ooh, Joe Cuevas.
79:43That's right. Is that a long-lost cousin? Yeah, that's him.
79:46Josh Cuevas. Joe Cuevas. Jake Cuevas. Joe, if you're listening, hit your 23andMe and check your shit out, dude.
79:52Bauer Sharp is a guy that exists. You know, I really liked Daquan Wright.
79:56He's now in Philadelphia. I think he's got plenty of bodies to climb there.
80:01He's probably – Yeah, he – Ole Miss. He's probably nobody, and he's got way too much in front of him to
80:08do anything, and it's probably completely jover for him, but he's also 1,000% free in any league you're in.
80:14So, again, all these guys are basically free. But all these guys, when you start going down, they're all basically just guys
80:21you want to just kind of – like Curti's saying, just keep your ear down.
80:26And if something starts to pop up, maybe that's the guy you prioritize and pick up and throw him on the back
80:33of a roster, some sort of taxi situation. So, that's a good take with just the volume of tight ends back there.
80:40And we weren't even talking about some of the higher ones, like Koziel and Delp and all those guys.
80:46So, yeah, these tight ends are – you kind of want to use the birdshot approach, not the buckshot approach with the tight ends.
80:53Yeah, because a lot of these tight ends wait until year three or four to break out, right?
80:59Like, you know, think about Tucker Craft, who we love.
81:02We didn't really love him like that when he first came out.
81:06He had to grow into that, right? And so maybe you get one of those guys out of the six you put on your tight end premium roster.
81:15And you probably don't, but just be aware, right?
81:18For sure. Anyway, did you find that tight end room?
81:21I did. Send me a screenshot and I can put it up in post too.
81:26Send me a screenshot and I'll pop it up on the screen.
81:30Is it okay? We'll screenshot it. So, again, 14 team, two PPR tight end, Tucker Craft, Harold Fannin, Isaiah Likely, Mark Andrews,
81:37TJ Hawkinson, Kate Atten, and Darren Waller. Jax, do you want a second to suck yourself off there?
81:42No, the rest of the team, though. Wait, maybe the quarterbacks aren't good.
81:46What are the quarterbacks in that league? Oh, my God.
81:50Here we go. No, let me ask me. No, they're terrible.
81:53Patrick Mahomes. He's just roster baiting. Yeah. Patrick Mahomes is one of them.
81:57Yeah. Going off. What is the quarterback? Where were we at here?
82:01Oh, just Lamar, Mahomes, Dak Prescott. That's good. Okay.
82:04I think it was probably the running backs, though.
82:07Maybe the running backs aren't good. No, these ones weren't.
82:10Kenneth Walker and CMC. Oh, no. Was it the wide receivers then?
82:14Something probably isn't working on that team. That's cool.
82:17I didn't have any rookies I wanted to watch for training camp either.
82:21Hold on. After this. Hold on. Puka, Namers, Igbuka, Sutton, Trey Harris.
82:25What are you going to do? I don't know.
82:27OTC score favorite Troy Franklin. Yeah. OTC. OTC Patriarch.
82:30Take the L on Troy Franklin. OTC Patriarch Courtland Sutton.
82:34All right. I'm done. Like, literally. Did you finish?
82:36Did you finish all the way? Go ahead, Trav.
82:39Tell us about some rookies. Yeah. You didn't even need to clean up.
82:43I'm impressed. Would hate to see what's under your desk.
82:47Hey, you know. Join a dispersal. It'll be fun.
82:49Jax is in the league. Yeah. I wonder why he says assets unseen.
82:54Yeah. No information. Just you want it. You're going to send me the screenshot.
82:58And when I put it up on screen, it's going to be blurred out.
83:02Because it's NSFW. Right. Jax, I'm going to get you to send me a selfie of you making an O face.
83:09Inappropriate. There's probably plenty of screenshots you can take of this show.
83:13I'll hit up your wife. She has zero. There's some O'Connell statements being made.
83:17O'Connell. Okay. So, I wanted to actually touch on a hot take I have for the Jets.
83:23You mentioned Omar Cooper real quick. Hot take that I have for the Jets is that Adonai Mitchell starts as, like, the ex-opposite of Garrett Wilson.
83:31Because when they're in two wide sets, he can occupy that clear-out role, that outside role.
83:36Which I don't think Omar Cooper is going to be from the start of his NFL career.
83:42And Adonai Mitchell has done a couple of good things here and there in the NFL.
83:47Absolutely. Yeah. Good call. That's something that I'm watching for the Jets.
83:50You talked about Adam Randall for Baltimore. Same team.
83:53Those wide receivers, Jacoby Lane and Elijah Surratt. Yes.
83:56Jax, you'll be happy to note that at my fishbowl draft in Vancouver, Jacob Sanderson, fellow fantasy analyst, is there.
84:03So, I was kicking it with him, drafting most of the time, and was talking.
84:07And he leans Surratt, as you did. Because of that versatility and the hope that he doesn't get pigeonholed into the X role.
84:15I don't think he necessarily gets pigeonholed into the X role.
84:18But I think that some of what they would want him to do from the slot is some of what Zay Flowers already does for that team.
84:27And maybe he's a little bit more of a dynamic athlete while he does it.
84:31So, I lean towards Jacoby Lane. But I think it's going to be interesting to see it from a scheme and a play-calling perspective.
84:39To see what D-Clan Doyle does for a team that previously rarely played in three wide receiver sets.
84:45Does drafting two wide receivers signify more of that on this team?
84:49With that tight end depth dwindling, as you mentioned, with no likelihood.
84:52And Andrew's getting older. So, that's kind of what I'm curious to see, kind of branching off of those rookies.
84:59Is how that offense is being run from a passing game perspective.
85:03Because I think it could be a big year for Lamar Jackson.
85:06And some of these rookies could be the beneficiary.
85:09So, I think that's a good one to watch there.
85:12Another one. Maybe they could drag teams into lighter.
85:15Other boxes with more wide receivers on the field.
85:18And now that I'm galaxy-braining it a little bit.
85:21Both Surratt and Jacoby are bigger. You know, they're...
85:24And maybe they're... I have no clue if they're good blockers or not.
85:28Not everybody can be a Dishon Stribbling. I could see Surratt being good.
85:32You know what I mean? Yeah. Probably. They can't all be Stribblings, you know.
85:37But you get my drift. Maybe they are a little bit better.
85:40More sturdy blockers, potentially. And they can play a little bit differently.
85:44I love it when, you know, when Lamar plays wide open, right?
85:48When he's just sort of... Video game Lamar is like so dangerous.
85:52And if you've got Derrick Henry on the field against light boxes, that could be a plan.
85:57You could be very right about that. Because the idea that they're going to play multiple tight ends at the same time
86:04means that one of those other two rubbers that I just mentioned, Joe Quavius or Matthew fucking Hibner are going to be on the field.
86:12Rubbers. Dang it. That's good. Go ahead and talk, you know?
86:16Yeah, I love it. The last one and this one we're talking...
86:20As a matter of fact, hey, Trav, back east we would call them rubbers.
86:24Rubbers, yeah. Yeah, we would call them rubbers. He's fucking rubbers out of here.
86:28Yeah, exactly. Totally. But now I'm from California. I can't believe we're finishing the show on this.
86:34This feels crazy. Because the ceiling is like best ball guy at best.
86:38You know what I mean? But I'm thinking there might be some opportunity for Chris Brazel in Carolina.
86:44I think it's interesting to take note of. I got a couple like fourth, late fourth shares.
86:49We weren't really attacking this wide receiver position in this draft.
86:53But if you have him, you're wanting to maybe assess what you've got.
86:57And I think when you look at how it's shaping up, his real competition is Xavier Leggett.
87:02We got Coker locked in as kind of that slot guy opposite of Tet who's going to move around as that versatile
87:09kind of new age alpha like we've been talking about, Jack.
87:13Yeah. And I think when they need that X role filled, Xavier Leggett is not suited for that.
87:18And he's been suited to not be that. And so I think Chris Brazel with that speed, being able to take the top off the defenses.
87:27Yeah. He's like six, four, I think six, five.
87:30And so he's got the height to be able to occupy that kind of space.
87:34And so I think this guy's going to get on the field.
87:38And I think, you know, with an injury, maybe he gets some opportunity where there is a spike week or two to maybe where you can.
87:46The team trusts him to get more targets in that situation.
87:50Right. Where you always talk about it with running backs, Jacks.
87:53You know, if this guy's goes down, you're probably going to get a couple of targets.
87:58Like maybe Brazel turns into that wide receiver where if a Coker or a Tet misses a time, you kind of know
88:05Brazel is going to get a couple of deep shots.
88:09And so to me, that's ROI on like a late fourth rookie draft pick.
88:13Yeah. So just a situation that I'm kind of monitoring.
88:16Also, son of a former BC Lions legend, Chris Brazel Sr.
88:20So there's a little bit of my heartstrings that root for Chris Brazel Jr.
88:24That's where it came from. Feels like a little bit of Torrey Horton, Darius Slayton type of player here where, you know,
88:31we're probably never going to actually see it, but he'll probably be on the field.
88:36And I think you're right. There is a possibility, as you say, that if, you know, if he's on the field, then Tet were to get hurt.
88:45You know, yeah, they got to throw it. So because who the hell else do they have, you know, other than Coker,
88:52you know, but, you know, after that, there's not a ton of like established, you know, target earners on that team at all anywhere.
88:59And you're right. Leggett is a gimmick player, period.
89:02End of story. He's not a real boy. Pinocchio over there, right?
89:06He's a Pinocchio. I'm not a real boy. I want to be a real boy.
89:11So, yeah, he's not. That is a good fucking Pinocchio, Jeff.
89:14Thank you so much. I'm supposed to be the voice guy.
89:18That one was money. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr.
89:21Shatner. I really appreciate it. Or was it Jim Carrey?
89:24Whatever. Oh, man. There we go. We've had so many good times on this podcast.
89:29Can't end the show on a better note than that.
89:32And tonight was another good time. It was another good time.
89:36Curdy, I want to say a big thanks to you for joining us.
89:40You have been stepping up time and time again for OTC as a brand.
89:44And just for us to have you as a human in the fold has made it that much more fun, man.
89:51Like Jack said, like you're making your own little community in the fantasy space.
89:55And I remember how fun that was. And I'm excited to see you blossom because I'm living a little bit vicariously if I'm being completely honest.
90:04And so just everything that you bring and the energy and the passion that you bring to the discord and the care that you bring for the people.
90:13Thank you for that. And thanks for coming on, brother.
90:16Yeah, I can't wait to see him in the pineapple hat.
90:19It's coming. Yeah, right. I'll be on the first order.
90:22Click for the pineapple one to greatly appreciate those words.
90:26It's fun. Just good group of fellows, individuals. Everyone's there for the right reasons.
90:30Shout out to everyone in the discord. Keeping it real.
90:33Keeping it genuine. Being there. Active. Just having fun.
90:36That's what it's all about. So all the love, Kirti.
90:39You're great, dude. Absolutely. And yeah, just look for Kirti on the live streams.
90:44Jax mentioned it. There's a show coming with Kirti and a couple other analysts you may have seen on these here airwaves.
90:51And so stay tuned for that. Just a couple of production details that we're working out and then we're going to get that kicked off.
90:59And so OTC summer is happening, folks. We're getting into the fall, getting close to preseason.
91:04But let's enjoy the sunshine while it lasts. And thank you for tuning in for Jax Falcone.
91:09For Kirti, I am Trav. We will see you next week.
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