0:00Shuck has major, major tuxedo risk. Yes. Yes. He's prancing around in a tuxedo as we speak.
0:05No doubt. A shuxedo. A shuxedo. A shuxedo! Yeah, the entire Saints offense is cloaked in a shuxedo right now.
0:12We're not sure if it's a nice three piece or if it was bought at the thrift store yet, but time will tell.
0:19Sights and sounds and edges found. You will now get down with the Underground.
0:24Post it up on the OTC Fantasy YouTube channel and find all of our work at otcffb.com.
0:29Dynasty Underground is back in the crib. I am Trav, I'm Hostin and West Coastin boys.
0:34And since I'm West Coastin, I was thinking earlier, Spice One has a song, a gentleman called Strap on the Side.
0:41And in that song, he says, Rolling with my motherfucking strap on the side of me.
0:46Can't fuck with the East Bay G's. And sometimes guys, that's how I feel coming into this show, getting to podcast with absolute weapons, such as yourselves.
0:55Starting with the Miyagi, always letting the AK spray Mr.
0:58Jacks Falcone. How are you tonight, brother? I mean, you wonder why Trav is here.
1:02That was epic and beautiful. And I appreciate you.
1:05That was, I mean, just bars, just bars and fire.
1:09I mean, unspeakable, unbelievable. Well done, sir. Don't let him tell you I don't bring anything to the table boys.
1:15Don't let him tell you. And fittingly with our pre-show conversation, the pistol grip pump.
1:20Speaking of East Bay G's. Speaking of Strap-Off. In his now infamous pineapple shirt.
1:24One Joquavius Kubitakis. How are you tonight, brother? You're looking extra chipper.
1:28I mean, we talked about the shirt. I promised the people the shirt would be worn.
1:33Just this really nice Hawaiian shirt that means nothing at all, unless it does.
1:38And, you know, I was told to wear it if I want a threesome and I wanted to have one with you guys.
1:45Thanks, buddy. Yeah, that makes, I think, two out of the last three or four shows that I now have a weird boner.
1:52So thanks, Joe. Can I just say that maybe, just maybe, people are looking at you for other reasons, though?
1:59Can I just posit that? You know? Not just because it's a great shirt.
2:03Maybe. I don't know. I'm not, this is a, this is a question.
2:07I'm not, I'm not, no accusation here. Love you, buddy.
2:10My good looks? Is that what you're talking about?
2:13Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just playing. I'm just playing.
2:16I did that for people. Yeah. It is a cool new melon hat.
2:20Melon, if you want to sponsor us. I'm not down with most sponsors.
2:24I actually hate almost all of them, but Melon, I will, I will sell the shit out of your hats if you send me some.
2:32Okay. All right. Not a speck of dust on it.
2:36Not a speck. Very good boys. Fun little intro there.
2:39Fun pre-show conversation as well. And a fun show we have on the docket.
2:43Of course we mentioned where everybody can find our work.
2:46Of course, subscribe to the YouTube channel. Weekly episodes of this show, you get episodes of undrafted.
2:52Curti's on the live streams and we've got other things coming to that YouTube channel as well.
2:57So make sure you subscribe. But on this very show boys, we're going to talk about kind of talked about a couple of different ways to frame it.
3:06We could talk about it like the little bit of misplaced ADPs in startups right now.
3:11We can talk a little bit about players who we think are going to see big value jumps come 2027 startup drafts.
3:18I think those things kind of coincide with each other and we're going to do it all using the OTC ADP tool at OTCFFB.com.
3:26So make sure you go check it out. The ADP that we're looking at tonight, boys, is from April 1st until today.
3:33So I think that's interesting because we have the NFL draft in there, which means that there's been some time for some
3:40of these rookies to be drafted in these startup drafts.
3:43And so curious to see how that shakes out as well.
3:47But boys, I want to talk about the first few rounds, because if we're thinking about guys that can jump in value,
3:54I think the first few rounds, these guys don't have a lot of room to necessarily jump in value if we're thinking
4:01they're jumping three rounds in ADP or something like that.
4:04Anything that jumps out to you as far as maybe strategies you'd be employing this year?
4:09Maybe some players that jump out to you that you'd be targeting in those rounds?
4:14I think what's interesting to me is the discourse about early quarterback has changed a little bit.
4:19I can remember in the last couple of years, two, three years, that in super flex leagues, you'd almost see a first round with eight to 10 quarterbacks.
4:28And I'm seeing that that's a not happening. And B, that the public sentiment thinks that's almost not that smart.
4:35They'll kind of poo-poo those ideas of taking Joe Burrow over B.
4:38John Robinson, which I'm not here to argue against it or for it.
4:43I've actually played a lot of late round quarterback in startups before.
4:46So I'm OK with that. I think you can usually find a lot of value in this particular case, though, the way
4:53that the ADP is shaping out quarterbacks are a different type of play here.
4:58What are your thoughts, Joe? Well, I think it's almost back to the way we played this game back in 2010, 2011.
5:05Like, you know, the rise of the late round quarterback.
5:08Shout out JJ. Yeah. Right. Where because of the way the macro view is this because of the way defenses have adjusted,
5:15it is harder to predict bankable, outrageous scoring from the quarterbacks.
5:19And what that does is create a much larger middle class.
5:22One that the former 101 for many years, Patrick Holmes, now lives in.
5:26Yep. Right. So this middle class is the guys that we've talked about in years past.
5:31Right. Where it's just like, all right, who gets hot on touchdown rate?
5:35Who has the forty five hundred plus yard season?
5:38Right. Those guys can come from anywhere from like, I don't know, QB eight to like QB 22.
5:44And they can kind of be interchangeable. And so what you're really doing is making probabilistic bets based on who is more
5:51likely to at least give you the floor that you want.
5:55And in the first round of a startup, you're not looking for floor.
5:59You're looking for a difference maker. And that's why I think we've seen so many of these QBs get pushed down in
6:06the ones that are near the top outside of like Joe Burrow, who has a historically high, consistently high touchdown rate.
6:12The rest of them all have this rushing upside, which gives them the floor ceiling combo that you want.
6:19Yeah. So I think that's generally what's what the shift has been more a macro thing about how defenses have adjusted and
6:26the middle class of quarterbacks has grown. What I'm looking for in the first round is like the mainstays, because we've got
6:33a few new entrants into the first round. Actually, one of the really cool tools on OTC is you can look at
6:40the current startup and you can look at year over year.
6:43You can toggle to year over year. And you can see the dudes that have jumped into the first round that weren't there necessarily before.
6:51Or one obvious one is Drake May, who Jackson and I has, you know, famously had as the QB, I don't know,
6:58five going into last year, which was one of our best calls ever.
7:02And now he's going at the 105. Yeah. It seems like the QB two.
7:07So I think that that's another cool tool to look at.
7:10But in general, it's a macro thing. And, you know, the premium on rushing is more important than ever.
7:16If you're going to be firing on a quarterback in that first round, the year over year tool is absolutely awesome.
7:23And of course, it does have Drake May as the number one year over year player from last year, this year.
7:30And of course, the biggest faller was my number one cell, which I said everywhere, which was Brian Thomas Jr.
7:36So just a little bit of a horn toot there for me.
7:40Let's see if I can unearth another one here today.
7:43I don't have as glaring a player as Brian Thomas Jr.
7:47was last year as a cell. I'll just say that.
7:50Yeah. And I was just going to piggyback off of what Joe said quickly there in that.
7:55Yes, this tool is phenomenal. Look at another call of ours.
7:59JSN is number two riser. Jackson Dart. Jackson Dart's the number three riser.
8:03Harold Fannin's the number five riser. It's just lovely.
8:06It's just it's beautiful. Yeah. Holy shit. We're pretty good at this.
8:09We're not bad at this, guys. We've yeah, not our first rodeo.
8:13So that's pretty nice results for the underground. And Joe, what I was going to say is to your point there, that
8:20middle class is a lot more rushing quarterbacks. So I think what we're seeing now is the pool of guys where we
8:27can see these breakouts coming is a lot bigger, too, for us to be taking those shots on, which creates more misses and more hits.
8:35But I think it's not like your twelve hundred yard quarterback rushers.
8:39We have a lot more of those four to eight hundred yard rushers, which I mean, that floor is amazing for those guys.
8:46I will I will just add, though, and this is important to think about in the entire context.
8:52Right. What's also happened with these two high shells that have completely changed and dominated the vernacular for the last three seasons
8:59is that the elite wide receivers have become more important.
9:02The elite running backs have become more important. And so we used to value quarterbacks, you know, way above receivers and running
9:09backs just because it was a math problem. Well, it's not so much the math problem isn't relative to position as much anymore.
9:17It's access to top tier players at the position.
9:20It's access to the elite players in the game of fantasy football, which we're solving for.
9:25And that could come from any position, including tight end, which is like the most abundant from a straight number standpoint.
9:31But Brock Bowers sure does make a big ass difference if you got him in a tight end premium league.
9:38Right. Yeah. Well said, gentlemen. Well said. Yeah, looking at some players here, I mean, you look at like Jeremiah Love going
9:45at 206, going as he is already going at the running back four, but going five picks after Ashton Gentry.
9:51Jackson Dart at 211. Jax, we're taking him at 211 easy, right?
9:55Yeah. I mean, that's the thing is like, you know, just like the Scott Fishbowl, which is coming up here shortly, you
10:02know, it's one of those things that actually signifies how different the masses can behave under the same conditions.
10:08Because you'll have 12 team leagues with, you know, just random people across the fantasy community.
10:13And there will be so much different behavior from each league.
10:17Some leagues will just snap up the quarterbacks so quickly.
10:20Others will fade them. It's really incredible. And I think the same thing can be true in your dynasty league.
10:26Of course, you know, the scoring will change these things.
10:29Of course, if there's a point per carry, you know, all these different things.
10:34Of course, I always say that, you know, so, so, so often check your, your settings and your scoring before you do a draft, of course.
10:42But if we're just talking, you know, uniform draft, you're still going to see tremendous difference from, from league economy to league economy.
10:50But in general, yeah, that's what I was so surprised at is that the quarterback seven, who is Jackson Dart, is going at the 211.
10:58I think in a lot of, a lot of instances, he's going much sooner than that in, in super flex startups.
11:04So, you know, look, I would love this way.
11:07This would be fantastic for me because I'd love to sort of, you know, push quarterback down and still get a guy
11:14like a Jackson Dart or, you know, someone with rushing upside, even a Bo Nix.
11:19I think Bo Nix, if I look, was at the 401.
11:22I'm not a huge Bo Nix fan, but 401, my goodness.
11:26I mean, I would be jumping up and down if, you know, if I could get my quarterback one is a Bo
11:33Nix in the fourth round when I already have three stud players.
11:37You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So just as a point of reference, I just toggled with the settings and I
11:44just changed our date from April 1st to May 1st.
11:47And Jackson Dart moved up one spot. Bo Nix moved from the four, whatever you said, 401 to the 311, right?
11:54So you saw a slight uptick, I think, in most of the QB values after the NFL draft when probably drafters realized
12:01that this rookie class and all that. We should probably be focused a little bit more on the bankable assets.
12:07Yeah. Yeah. All right, boys. So early round strategy, we got a little bit there, some players picked out.
12:13But we're going to go to the fourth round and we're going to start our round by round look at some of these guys, boys.
12:21And so what I want us to do is we're going to look at the round and we're just going to be
12:28talking about some players that we think are good values in that round, maybe candidates for a big breakout.
12:34And we're going to do that right after this, gentlemen.
12:37We're back on Dynasty Underground, talking about some mispriced Dynasty startup ADPs as we will on the Dynasty Underground.
12:43How are we feeling, boys? Yeah, we're feeling good.
12:46Hey, before we get to the fourth round, though, I did have the take that is sort of bubbling over from last
12:53week that I wanted to mention at this particular point.
12:56Because, yes, because, you know, it's funny because our boy Keegan was in a draft tight end premium and he went ahead
13:03and drafted Trey McBride, which is a great pick.
13:06He's going to be very productive. And, of course, last week I mentioned that I think I want Colson Loveland as the tight end to in Dynasty.
13:15And that felt hot. It feels like a hot take.
13:18But what was interesting is Keegan went to make that trade because he was like, actually, that sounds pretty smart.
13:25Let me go ahead and do that. I'm going to trade my Trey McBride for his whoever drafted him, Colson Loveland, and
13:32just ask for a little bit of profit. And so the guy was like, nah.
13:36And then he was like, well, how about a little less profit?
13:40The guy was like, nah. And then he was like, how about straight up?
13:45And the guy was like, nah. So this actually happened in real time after the show.
13:50Keegan was like, tried to pull it off and couldn't do it.
13:54So I think the idea there is when you find that you're feeling a certain way, like I do about that position,
14:01would be that I'm just going to try and target Colson Loveland.
14:04The way that I'm going to try and target Colson Loveland in a startup is Brock Bowers is going to get drafted whenever he gets drafted.
14:13And whenever Trey McBride gets drafted at that very moment, obviously, I hope I have a pick right then and there or somewhere thereabouts.
14:20But if not, I'm looking to maybe maneuver my way into a position where I can get myself Colson Loveland at that point.
14:28I think it's very worth it. It's crazy because Trav probably just smiling ear to ear hearing me say this because this was his guy.
14:36But I really do believe that the way that this is all playing out, which, of course, hashtag Trav was right, said
14:43it would play out just this way that DJ Moore would be gone.
14:47And, of course, we'd have a consolidated target share.
14:50You're not the only one who said that, Trav, but certainly you were saying it.
14:54And loud and clear for everybody to hear, I think it's real.
14:58And I do think that actually Colson Loveland is either the first or second option in Chicago.
15:04I think it's probably Rome who's still a little bit on the outside looking in.
15:08Just not even based on talent, but just based upon the type of routes he runs and the type of way they deploy him.
15:16But the way that they deploy Colson Loveland, the way that Ben Johnson's talking about deploying him going forward, talk about those sweatpants getting a little tight.
15:25This is the stuff you want to hear. So I do believe that that's the way I'd play.
15:30And I am prioritizing Colson Loveland in the startup right now.
15:34Of the three Bears assets, Loveland, Rome, and Burden, Loveland is the safest asset for sure.
15:39And a tweet came out today, Joe. I'll get to you in just one sec.
15:44I see you're ready to pop off. Ben Johnson on Colson Loveland in an interview.
15:49I love what he brings to the table. He's one of the most consistent players I've been around.
15:54He's in early. He's always in his playbook. He's always taking notes.
15:58That's fucking lunch pail central right there. And the last quote, we're going to take his route tree to the next level.
16:05Bingo. That's what I love to hear. Explosion. Explosion.
16:08Joe? I was just going to point out the great irony that for Loveland to fly, Misa Dunze has to make a
16:15little bit of a hit at the same time.
16:18But to your point, Jack, I mean, perhaps one of the plays is just draft Loveland right after McBride goes off the board.
16:25The other play is if you're in the McBride spot, try and trade back to a few slots ahead of the Loveland spot.
16:33Make sure you got a backup plan. Right. But this is what we're always talking about, right?
16:38You want to be trading back. And what I found in the startups that I've done this year is it's hard to get those 27 firsts, right?
16:47It is hard to trade back out of the first round.
16:50But once the waterfall starts, right, once the dam breaks open a little bit and people start throwing first around, then like
16:57the arms race begins and other people start throwing first around too.
17:01So it's almost more difficult to get a first round pick trading back from the first round to like the third round
17:08this year, I've noticed, than it is from trading back from the second round to the third round after you let somebody
17:15else do the hard work for you. So moving back from McBride spot in the second round to the Loveland spot in, let's just say, early third.
17:24305 is his ADP right now. 305 is his ADP, but that's, I'm sure, climbing.
17:28So let's just say it's like the 301, right?
17:31But trade back, get a little something for it.
17:34And again, this is where the arbitrage takes place, right?
17:37Reading tomorrow's newspaper today, knowing where these values are going to be a year from now, and moving back to get Loveland
17:44at a price that McBride costs for a little bit of profit on top of it.
17:50That's how you make a difference on your team for years to come.
17:54Yeah, go to the OTCFFB ADP page. And I really believe studying that year over year will tell you a lot about
18:01just even just looking at this, the types of players in each column.
18:05You'll learn so much about what you should be doing.
18:08Move to where the puck is going. Right? Skate to where the puck is going to be.
18:13Hey! Hey, hockey. But, you know, that whole idea is, you know, so evident when you see the way that this is happening.
18:21I do think Loveland is a very good bet to be that type of player this year, who he could easily be
18:28the tight end one in redraft this year in 2026.
18:31I really believe it's in play. I mean, Bowers is the odds-on favorite.
18:35I would bet Bowers with even money. But if you give me odds, I'm happy to take Loveland.
18:41I think he's definitely right there. I just got a third round Bowers in a basketball draft today.
18:47Joe, I was stoked about it. Wow. I moved the dates to May 1st, so just within the last month, and he is still the 305 Colston Loveland.
18:56So capitalize on that. And this might not be, like, super valuable for the audio listeners, boys, but one cool thing about
19:03the site is that when you're in the ADP tool, you can drop each player down.
19:08You can see their ADP over time in a little bit of a chart there.
19:12You can see for Colston Loveland, let's just say at the 301, you got a 74% chance of getting Colston Loveland at
19:19the 301 in startup drafts right now. So if you're trading back to the 301, you got a pretty good chance.
19:26And if you go a little bit higher than that, then it's even better.
19:31So just another little advantage you can get there if you're cruising around on the OTC website.
19:36One of the coolest tools ever, by the way, is this thing that you just showed.
19:41But also, if you look at the Colston Loveland little graph, it's on a huge up.
19:46Yeah, totally. It's spiking. It's spiking huge right now.
19:49So it's like I know that last week, literally a week ago, I mean, I know I don't control ADPs, but certainly trying to see.
19:57I believe I was seeing this ADP happening in the future.
20:01Yeah, totally. That ADP, if you look at that chart, and that's why they're so useful side by side, right?
20:07We've got the pick availability matrix, which is so cool because you can basically see like if you take them at the
20:14basically 109, you got 100% chance of getting them.
20:17It's like 99% chance if you're anywhere through the 201, right?
20:20And it just drops progressively. But you compare that to the ADP over time where you can see that his value is
20:27going parabolic, and now he's probably a late second round pick.
20:31And like that's as of June 4th, which is five days ago at the time of this recording.
20:37So that's kind of the value that this tool brings is as you're getting ready for your drafts and you're looking at
20:44ADPs and values, you kind of know where the puck – we're showing you where the puck is going and telling you the probabilities.
20:51I can't think of a better tool when you're doing a startup.
20:55I'm actually really looking forward to – can we set up a startup right now?
21:00Let's do another listener league, right? Let's do another listener league.
21:03Ooh, damn. We've got our underground league. I think we need another underground league.
21:08I think one a year is a reasonable pace.
21:11Let's just throw it out there. Let's come up with some code for people to put, drop in the YouTube comments to maybe become a member.
21:19So, well, I don't know if I necessarily have anything right now.
21:23Do we think of it at the end? Does it have to be something that comes up organically on the show?
21:30Or do we say make sure you listen in next week because we're going to drop how you can get into this year's listener league?
21:37Pineapple emoji. What are you talking about? Pineapple emoji.
21:40Pineapple emoji is the right one. That's it. That is the right one.
21:45You can't beat it. Is there a pineapple emoji?
21:47Yes. I'm pretty sure. If you can put a pineapple emoji together, then you know that – we know that you're part of the plan.
21:55It would be great if it was a gorilla and a pineapple emoji.
21:59Yes. That would – I'm just seeing if there's a pineapple emoji.
22:03Yeah. Of course there's a pineapple emoji. I do think people get together online.
22:08Yeah. And they definitely agree. Now, if you give us an upside down pineapple in any way, shape, or form, then you
22:15can be the commissioner of this fucking league. I don't care.
22:18Yeah, you get the 101 at that point. Yeah, you're locked in, player.
22:22Yeah. Okay, so are we calling it now? You know, first nine other – Something like that, yeah.
22:28Pineapple emojis get into the listener league? Yeah, well, maybe eight.
22:32Should we let Keegan in this one? Oh, Keegan's got to get in this one too.
22:37Yeah. So, eight. We got eight. Whatever you're going to do, man.
22:41And you know I'm not going to look at any of that shit.
22:45So, it's up to you now. Okay. So, yeah.
22:48On the YouTube or on the podcast comments. Or Reddit or Blue Sky.
22:52Or Truth Mobile. If you're on Blue Sky, just put an upside down one for sure.
22:57Yeah. Yeah. So, do that. And when we see them, we got eight spots in the Dynasty Underground Listener League 2.0.
23:04Apparently, Joe. That was not something we talked about, but it's something that's happening.
23:08So good. You can't show me these sick tools and make me not want to draft.
23:13I'm sorry. I'm itching for a startup. I haven't done one since April.
23:17I'm going to hate this league. All these guys sniping my ass.
23:21Yeah. Wow. They're going to be sniping your ass with those upside down pineapples.
23:26That's for sure. I hurt coming out. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
23:30But what we're going to do, boys, is we're going to start going round by round.
23:35Starting with the fourth round. To get these value pockets and tell people who we think the best values are.
23:42The players who are going to jump the most.
23:44So, let's get into it here. The fourth round starts with Bo Nix at 401.
23:49Like you mentioned before, Jax. You got some Kenneth Walker.
23:52We got Travion in here. Rasheed still in the fourth round.
23:56Joe, why don't you give me your favorite value of the fourth round?
24:00I'm going to go ahead and say I'm just looking to see if he's even in the fourth round.
24:06Is Luther Burden of the fourth round? No, you don't get to say him yet.
24:11Brother, you're supposed to pull this up in front of you, my man.
24:15You don't get to say him yet. Oh, man.
24:18I'm taking Luther Burden in the fourth round. I told you I'm not.
24:22Where am I? Talk about where the fuck is going.
24:25All right. So, this is like easy stuff here.
24:28But no. You got to pick someone from the fourth, damn it.
24:32Yeah, yeah. All right. If we're going fourth round ADPs, I think I would have to go with Ladd McConkie.
24:38The reason I'm going Ladd is basically because we expect the Chargers to run a bit more 12 personnel with the addition of David Njoku this offseason.
24:47The fact that Keenan Allen, as of now, is not a Charger.
24:51And I don't think we think a ton about QJ on this here podcast, despite the spike weeks that he provides.
24:57And we love Trey Harris here, and we hope that he becomes the consistent wide receiver, too.
25:03But looking at that wide receiver room, the dude we think is going to be on the field in any formation that
25:10can play inside and outside is Ladd McConkie. You add Mike McDaniel to the mix, an increased play volume, and a dude that can scheme guys open.
25:18Ladd McConkie that can get open against anybody inside or out.
25:22He seems like one of the bigger beneficiaries of this regime change, of a healthy offensive line, of an increased play volume,
25:29and of the departure from Keenan Allen. We saw that sophomore slump from him as well, which probably scared some people off
25:36and made them think maybe the rookie year was a fugazi.
25:40But as you both know, he scored really well in our model.
25:43We've never stopped believing in the talent, and the stars are kind of aligning for him right now.
25:49So that's the obvious choice for me if we're talking about dudes that we're taking in the fourth.
25:55Although, again, I'd probably be taking Ladd at the end of the third.
25:59Yeah, I think that's probably about right for Ladd.
26:02Go ahead, Jack. Yeah, I was going to say Ladd as well, but I'm up in the air here looking at a bunch of guys.
26:10I mean, you know, honorable mention to Rashi Rice, who's falling right now because of off-the-field stuff.
26:15I think once he gets back on the field, he'll see a spike.
26:19Rashi, not a bad play. You know, Ladd McConkie, 24 years old.
26:23My player in this round is Garrett Wilson, who's 25 years old and has dominated targets since he's been in the NFL.
26:30He's been awesome earning targets. He's just been earning targets from really, really terrible quarterbacks by and large.
26:36He really has. I mean, what's the best quarterback he's played with to date?
26:40Hard to even come up with a name. I honestly challenge you to come up with who you think that might be.
26:47Aaron Rodgers for one play. Right. Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, exactly.
26:51That's the right answer somehow. My biggest sell on this list, and it's hard to sell any of these players because they're good.
26:58It's probably Chase Brown, 26-year-old running back without draft capital, although he's going to be awesome this year.
27:04So, you know, in running back world, I suppose you could do a lot worse.
27:08But, you know, when he's in a round with Kenneth Walker, 25 years old, Brees Hall, 25 years old, Travion Henderson, 23 years old.
27:16I just think all those other running backs have a little bit of a longer runway than Chase Brown does, even though
27:23I absolutely love Chase Brown and redraft. And certainly in 2026, I think he'll be just fine.
27:29So, really no big sells here, but, you know, let's definitely buy Garrett Wilson and Ladd McConkie for sure.
27:35Yeah, for sure. I was going to put Travion, maybe not necessarily as a mispriced ADP because I don't think it's necessarily
27:42that mispriced, but somebody who could see one of the biggest value spikes coming out of this for sure group, Travion Henderson.
27:49You see he's going behind Chase Brown. He's going behind Kenneth Walker.
27:52He's going behind Christian McCaffrey. I think I take him over all three of those guys.
27:58And then Kenneth Walker, I say, if you're throwing out a sell, I think Kenneth Walker could be a sell just because
28:05you're getting pretty peak value on him right now.
28:07And the downside by way of him missing time is pretty glaring.
28:11So, I can see capitalizing on that Kenneth Walker value as well.
28:15Yeah. Okay, moving into the fifth round, guys. Okay, Joe, you can hit it.
28:20You can hit it. Five. Bro, this was crazy.
28:22Five. I looked ahead because we were thinking about starting somewhere on the fifth round.
28:27I looked. I was like, wait, Luther Burden's in the fifth round?
28:31That doesn't even make any sense. I would have drafted him in the third or some shit.
28:36So, yeah. Go ahead, Joe. I mean, this one's like a layup.
28:40Well, I'm pulling up the chart on him right now because, again, this is from April 1st.
28:46I know that it's climbed since then. If you look at his as of June 4th ADP, it's about the 409.
28:52Right? Yeah. And it's also going parabolic relative to where it's been, which I guess is pretty consistently in the fifth round.
28:59I guess there's some uncertainty in terms of, like, who's going to be the Bears number one?
29:05How's the target you're going to shake out? And then maybe with, like, the Roma Dunze doom and gloom about his foot,
29:12it's risen as time has gone on this offseason.
29:15But, boy, I fired on him in a couple startups already in the fourth round and was very happy to do so.
29:22And, you know, we talked about this in startup season last year, right, where it's like you make a pick and everyone's just like, oh, damn it.
29:30That's the guy I wanted. And that's, like, the sign that you just put him on the block right away.
29:37Yeah. Or you just try and trade him right away.
29:40That happened with Luther Burden both times, right? Just, like, I'm taking him right now.
29:45And many people were lamenting the fact that Luther Burden was not available when they thought he'd be.
29:50So I think you probably need to be a little ahead of market on this one.
29:56Absolutely. That's because he belongs up there, right? Like, he straight up does.
30:00You know, I had the – it was funny because I just obviously was wrong about where the market was on Luther
30:07Burden because I went on Heath Cummings show and he was like, who's your number one sell?
30:12And I was like, oh, yeah, you know, Luther Burden or whatever.
30:16And he's like, that's my number one buy. And then I looked and we had them both at, like, wide receiver 12 or something.
30:24You know, I was like, well, wait a minute.
30:27I thought, you know, he's not wide receiver 12.
30:29This is, like, that price point puts him at, like, wide receiver 18.
30:34You know, but, yeah, I'm definitely ahead of market on that.
30:37I want to see him, you know, at least, you know, in that, you know, what you call it, Lad McConkie range ahead of that.
30:45I mean, yeah, definitely in that range. I mean, I don't know.
30:49I'm completely – All right. So, question. Carnell Tate.
30:52Carnell Tate is the wide receiver 15 going 408 in startups this offseason.
30:56Who would you rather have, Carnell Tate or Luther Burden?
30:59I'd rather have Luther Burden. I think it's pretty close for me.
31:03It's a pretty close one for me. I think I have Burden ahead by a couple spots.
31:08I have Burden ahead by a couple spots. I was going to say that, like, we talked about this, I think, last episode or maybe the one before.
31:17Joe, you mentioned you were super high on Burden having him in your top 10, which I don't think is egregious by any means.
31:25Jackson and I both had him, like, right in that top 15 area.
31:29So, I think what we're all saying kind of aligns to an extent, right?
31:33Well, no. Like, for Carnell Tate and Luther Burden, it's the archetype question, right?
31:38It's like X receiver versus a, you know, slot flanker hybrid that's going to get the layups.
31:43You know, the Queen Chesapeake versus the – what we think is going to be primarily an X receiver.
31:49Like, obviously, real-life value and fantasy value are different things.
31:53But to me, Luther Burden is clearly the better bet in fantasy football in a PPR league.
31:58Yeah. What about Nico Collins or Luther Burden? I did this.
32:02Luther Burden. Yeah. That's weighing – that's really close, too, because you're weighing the next couple years of, you know, probably 1,200
32:09plus and maybe 10 touchdowns for Nico Collins versus the potential upside of Luther Burden.
32:13I would probably take Luther Burden pretty close to, if not ahead of, Nico Collins in a redraft league.
32:19I've got him. You think so? I've got him.
32:22Interesting. Yeah, man. I think – I don't – I mean, Nico's great, but, I mean, I don't know, man.
32:29I think Luther Burden could have a big year.
32:32I really do. I think it's going to be really, really strong.
32:35And, you know, what's funny is I, you know, just draft all the Bears.
32:40I'm ahead of their ADP. I'm no Bears fan, but I've got, like, you know, Caleb as my quarterback three in Dynasty.
32:47I've got, you know, Loveland as my tight end two.
32:50I think, you know, I think Burden is a top 12 Dynasty asset at the wide receiver position, if not close to.
32:57And then even Adunze is worth a bet. You know, I think he sometimes falls sometimes.
33:02I mean, here he's also in this fifth round at the 507.
33:06I would be okay just sort of drafting all the Bears, you know, at value for sure.
33:11I'd take all of them. Well, like, in startup ADP, right, George Pickens is sitting here at the wide receiver 10.
33:18Yeah. I'd rather have a mechanic book over George Pickens who's going right after him.
33:23And then right after that is where I've got Luther Burden.
33:26Yeah. And I would have Chris Olave, who's the wide receiver 13, ahead of George Pickens as well because George Pickens, right, what do we know?
33:35He's on a franchise tag. He is, you know, kind of a wild card.
33:39Mercurial. That's a great word. Thank you. That is good.
33:42Look at that book. And he may not be on the Cowboys in 2027, not to mention, obviously, the age difference between
33:49him and these younger dudes that don't have as many question marks.
33:53I guess you can raise questions about Olave's long-term viability because of the concussion thing.
33:58But, boy, they're going to be running a lot of plays in New England, just like they – excuse me, in New
34:05Orleans, just like they will be in Dallas. And, you know, one broke out at a younger age, had a better collegiate
34:12profile, and, you know, has proven to be a consistent performer, whereas Pickens kind of caught lightning in the ball.
34:18And I love Pickens. He was one of our best last year.
34:22But, boy, I'd have him behind a lot of the dudes that are going after him.
34:27Yeah, interesting to play out. Like we continue to say, the Bears' offense is going to be the most interesting to watch in the entire season.
34:36Yeah, Rome at 507, I think it's criminal. I would absolutely be taking that.
34:40I think A.J. Brown, like, if you're doing a win-now build at the 509, I think you're going to get better than
34:47509 production for the next couple of years from A.J.
34:50Brown. So, depending on what you've done before the fifth round, I don't hear.
34:55I mean, how can we not throw out T.K.
34:58Kraft at the 5'11 going as the tight end six boys?
35:01Yeah. I have him as my tight end five behind Tyler Warren.
35:05And I think he is being slept on a little bit coming off of the injury.
35:10And I think people are going to get a mega value on Tucker Kraft because he is that player of a Tyler
35:17Warren, of a, like, Trey McBride level, I think.
35:20If he gets the amount of targets in the usage, I don't know if that level, like, Trey McBride levels comes into
35:27play for Tucker Kraft in the Green Bay offense.
35:30But I think we got a top five tight end on our hands for sure.
35:35I don't know about you guys, but I got a bunch of cells in this round, too.
35:40I mean, like, a bunch of cells. Bunch of players I wouldn't even think about drafting at this ADP.
35:46I don't know. Kyron. Yeah. Kyron sticks out like a sore thumb.
35:50Saquon, Bucky Irving, Fernando Mendoza, like, just all passes for me.
35:53I would just not be interested in any of them at this price.
35:58Yeah. I think they all have a value. But, like, when I look down the board a little bit and I see
36:05some of the names that are there, I mean, unless it's some kind of weird scoring, again, I'm absolutely fading all those
36:12types of players for players further down the board for sure.
36:15Okay. So, look at this. I want to look at that Mendoza thing because that's interesting.
36:20Quarterback 15 at the 506. Sure, he's young. Sure, he's a 101.
36:24But the next quarterback after him is Jordan Love at the 510, four picks later.
36:29And then it goes all the way to the 703 for Jared Goff.
36:33So, almost two more rounds between Fernando Mendoza and then the quarterback, two quarterbacks after him.
36:38Then there's a bit of a run of your Bakers, your Wards, your Shucks, your CJ Strouds, Darnold Murray as you get into eighth round.
36:46And we're going to get there, obviously. But I think I would rather just wait on that quarterback kind of like you
36:53guys were saying at the top of it. For sure.
36:56Yeah. Speaking of reading tomorrow's newspaper today, right? The guys you just mentioned, that neighborhood is where Mendoza is going to live next year.
37:04Right? So, he's going to... Yeah. Well, unless he's...
37:07He's going to fall below the Mendoza line. Right, right.
37:10But the only way he really goes up is if he smashes, which I suppose is possible, but not likely that he smashes.
37:17You know, I look at like a Jordan Love and actually the one you mentioned who I'm surely going to mention later is CJ Stroud.
37:25But like that's actually who he... If he's somewhere between Jordan Love and CJ Stroud, that's a huge win.
37:31And you have to draft him ahead of either of those guys who already exist.
37:36That's exactly the problem I ran into where I, in one of my startups, I drafted CJ Stroud.
37:42I got him in like the eighth round. And I was like, this is stupid.
37:47Yeah. And it's so funny because that was before the NFL draft.
37:50Yeah. So, I had drafted the 102 as one of my...
37:54Yeah, I drafted a rookie pick in place of a player at the end of the third round.
38:00Right. It's just there. I was like, I'm going to take the 102 here.
38:04Worst case scenario, it's Mendoza. Right. And then the, you know, sixth, seventh round came around and like, you know, CJ Stroud's still there.
38:12And then I finally just drafted CJ Stroud in the eighth round.
38:16I was like, well, why the hell would I use this pick on Mendoza?
38:20Right. Now I have to pick a wide receiver with this or I need to trade it.
38:25Right. But it gave me the flexibility to push it on quarterback.
38:29This is the benefit of doing pre-NFL draft startups.
38:32You get flexibility in these rookie picks, but it ended up being not the best value because I ended up taking a
38:39wide receiver whose ADP was lower than, you know, the late third round anyway.
38:44Yeah. And this is kind of like the thing that pops into my mind was why I was saying every single one
38:51of the picks you're going to make in your rookie draft is worth less than it normally is.
38:56And so you should be trying to trade it for one of those exact same things in a future draft.
39:03And that's the 102 right there. When would the 102 be that sort of blah, right?
39:08Like there's, it never happens. Even if we're wrong, there was someone you were at least excited about drafting at that 102 pretty much in every single draft.
39:17So yeah, not, not this year, sir. Of course we see quinch on there at the 502 Tyson at the 512 Jordan Tyson, of course.
39:25Speaking of actually getting out of those, those one or 26 first jacks, I made a trade this week.
39:31Just wanted to share with you guys, of course, felt like you might be a little bit proud.
39:37I needed a wide receiver. It's a team where I have a pretty strong young running back group.
39:42And I traded my 108 for DJ Moore and the 305.
39:46So I got myself a good wide receiver who has a chance at being a strong asset in my win bid.
39:53And I got out of that back half of the first round.
39:56So I was pretty stoked about that. I just traded for DJ Moore today as well.
40:01And Fuchs, Derek Fuchs was not happy about it.
40:04He's in the league. And he was like, how do you do this every single fucking time?
40:10I traded, uh, DJ, I received DJ Moore and gave up, uh, Patrick Bryant, Isaiah Bond and a 28 second.
40:16Wow. That's cooler than mine. Yeah. I was very excited about that.
40:20Oh, I hear you got rid of the roster cloggers in the process.
40:24Yes. Totally. Yeah. The Trojan horse roster cloggers. Who's like, well, Patrick Bryant could be somebody.
40:29Yeah. And you got two years to recoup that second, which is no problem.
40:34Oh, too. That's very nice. Yeah. I think he's probably worth somewhere around a second, which actually is not a crazy trade.
40:41It's not like, oh my God, I ripped him off or whatever.
40:44He's worth about a second, but it is a 28 second, not a 27 second.
40:49And it's also like that one Oh eight we've sort of said is like worth like maybe an early second.
40:56Yeah. Two Oh one, two Oh two. So it's not like they're that far off, but yeah, to be able to get
41:03them on the low side of that value is even better.
41:06But I do like the bet on DJ more if you can, if you can get them right now, because I think
41:13a lot of people are down on them. I haven't been in other leagues where I haven't been able to sell them literally for years.
41:21I've been trying to like get off DJ more.
41:24Nobody wants to pay anything for DJ more. So, you know, when someone comes a call and for players that you normally
41:31can't even get rid of, sometimes you can quote unquote, steal them a little bit.
41:36And that's what happened. I need to give Travis shout out because in that same league, I was picking at the one
41:4311 and once he identified this guy as the Mark, I, uh, I, I, I smelled blood and I traded the one
41:5011 Troy Franklin, the three Oh two and the four Oh two for facial tootin and the three Oh five.
41:56Yeah. So I just moved back in the third.
41:59I picked up tootin for the one 11, which I kind of feel like I did pretty good on that one too,
42:06but like God bless child for pointing out to me, uh, via trade that, uh, I need to go focus my attention on this guy.
42:14I think that's a great trade. The basial tootin trade.
42:17Yeah. Another basial share. I saw you, I saw you pimping your basial ownership percentages, Joe, and I went and looked at mine too.
42:25And I have 36%. So you win. Wow. I'm now over 50%.
42:29I'm now over 50% since I tweeted that. Well done.
42:32Let's look at this sixth round here, guys. These are the rounds where you can kind of make your money, right?
42:39You get these guys who are six round picks now who turn into third round picks next year.
42:44You're laughing. You are absolutely laughing in your dynasty leagues.
42:48I'm seeing some, something interesting right off the hop.
42:50Kai lemon going at 604 over Devante Smith with Smith having the better short-term production profile.
42:56Makai lemon, obviously having a few years of age on his side.
42:59What do you think about that contrast with those guys going in the same round?
43:04Joe. Well, before I knew you were going to ask that question, I had already had lemon teed up as the obvious
43:11guy that's going to rise out of this tier.
43:14This is again, based on April 1st to today.
43:17And now that AJ Brown is officially gone, I don't think you can get Makai lemon in the sixth round anymore.
43:24I'm guessing you have to fire on him in the fifth round at the latest.
43:28And that's probably about where he's going to live in startups for the rest of the off season.
43:34So I'm sorry, you were comparing Makai lemon to Devante Smith, who also benefited from AJ Brown's departure.
43:40I think the edge has to go to the rookie and the age and the fact that we've seen Devante Smith not
43:47beat out another alpha in his own offense for a number of years.
43:51And sure, they've got tons of faith in him, but I don't know, is Makai lemon going to be that new dude
43:58that just soaks up targets and they make Devante Smith kind of play something of a similar role.
44:04Uh, I would take if even money, I'm taking lemon.
44:07This is a, you can look at this ADP chart, ADP over time.
44:11Uh, you know, uh, Makai lemon peaked at the four Oh eight, four Oh four, something like that.
44:17Uh, at some point early in the, in April.
44:20Uh, so he was going in the mid fourth round and then before the NFL draft.
44:25And then on April 28th, we see a sharp, uh, decline in his ADP.
44:29And I'm just trying to rack my brain. What happened on April 28th?
44:33If I could just anybody, it's buddy. Yeah. Put my finger on it.
44:38Yeah. Can't even, you got a call from another team that didn't end up taking him.
44:43Right. Oh, right. Yeah. The draft. So people hate his landing spot, which is a historic lesson to not do that, to
44:50take advantage of that, because that's usually wrong. Now, of course we could be wrong on him as a prospect or as a player.
44:57Sure. That's possible too. But if we just say, let's bet against the masses, hating a landing spot, that's usually a good
45:04thing to do is to just bet against that.
45:07The masses in that way. He fell as far as like the 612, um, at one point.
45:13So yeah, I mean, to go all the way from the, basically the mid fourth to the late sixth is fading way too far.
45:20I think this is the, a Mecca, a Buka, um, you know, spot for me.
45:25I'm targeting Makai Lemon in every single startup. I'm going to take him ahead of ADP and I'm going to make it
45:32a priority ad in every single startup. I do.
45:35And I think I'm going to get a Mecca, a Buka type of return where he's a, as you pointed out, third
45:42round prospect, uh, next year, just like a Buka is today.
45:46Yeah. And you know, what you basically just described is before the NFL draft, the evaluation had him as something of a
45:53mid fourth to mid fifth round pick. Then the draft happens, everybody hits the landing spot, sharp decline into the sixth, uh, and even late sixth.
46:01And now AJ Brown has been traded and it's like, that has not actually been priced in yet.
46:07Right. Right. So, uh, he should see a sharp increase in value and is maybe there's just like, I don't know, um, anchoring bias tied to him.
46:15And, you know, the weird, uh, interviews and whatnot that people are also anchoring to, but this is a huge mistake.
46:22And one we're going to profit from greatly. We've been banging the drum all off season.
46:27And we don't, we don't love the offense for wide receivers, Joe.
46:31Right. I mean, there's still that, you know, we talked about, you know, I think the, the lack of targets for Devante
46:38Smith and AJ Brown over the last couple of seasons, which have just been too few to actually get them to where
46:45we would love the heights that we would love to get them to.
46:49Um, but again, their offensive coordinator was basically a trash bag last year.
46:53There's going to be some change there. They did make some changes.
46:57They got rid of AJ Brown. They drafted Eli stores and, and Makai lemon.
47:01There's obviously a plan. This isn't haphazard. They're not like, wait, we have Makai lemon.
47:06Now, what do we do? Like there's some thought that's going into this.
47:10They do have an idea of what they want to do.
47:14And to some, to some degree, somebody has got to get those targets.
47:18And, uh, I would bet it's the guy who earned targets at a ridiculous rate and is super dangerous after the, I
47:25mean, come on guys, Makai lemon, please. This is rude.
47:28This is crazy. Yeah. I actually, I wrote up my thoughts on the AJ Brown trade impacts, both from the AJ Brown
47:35side and from the Eagle side on the first, the first installment of the TPS report boys on the site.
47:42So go check it out. I, uh, dropped that last week.
47:45Um, thank you so much for calling it the TPS report just for me, just for my pleasure.
47:51So I've wanted to have some piece of content called the TPS report.
47:55Those are my initials, by the way, for anybody listening.
47:58And I'm also a big fan of the movie office space.
48:02Um, so yeah, it felt good to get that out and it's going to be my little reaction to things that happen in the NFL.
48:10Sometimes it'll be quicker write-ups. I have a hard time going quick though.
48:14So if you check this one out, it's a bunch of advanced data and stuff in there.
48:19I don't love toot my own horn, but I actually got my buddy Scott Barrett to give it a read for me just because he takes a look.
48:28Sometimes he told me it was elite. So hopefully you enjoy it as well.
48:33He would probably just toot my own horn because he has to.
48:36He's my buddy, but that's okay. Um, but it was fun to write and I'm, I'm writing another piece right now.
48:43So just keep an eye on the site for that stuff and go to that article.
48:48If you want my full thoughts on the, uh, the impact of the AJ Brown trade, including Devante Smith and Makai Lemon thoughts.
48:56But yeah, in this round boys, I'm seeing like not a ton.
48:59By the way, what's the middle is the middle name?
49:03Benjamin. Is it? Philadelphia. Pale. Pale. Yeah. It's pale.
49:05Pale. Yeah. There you go. That's me boys. That's me.
49:09That's my government name. I knew I remembered at one point.
49:12Benjamin was what was on my mind. Any spells in this round before, before you move on?
49:18I mean, it's an interesting one. I don't see a ton actually.
49:21Not a ton. I think Javante, Javante Williams. I think the wheels could fall off that one at any point.
49:28Not maybe because of injury, but also potentially down the road of the Cowboys trying out other people in that role.
49:34If there's any, without looking, any idea how old Javante is?
49:38Don't look. He's only like 25. 25? Just turned 26.
49:41Yeah. A lot of tread on the requires Josh Jacobs.
49:44The other one, the other one I'll say in the sixth round is Brian Thomas, right?
49:49Like, so obviously the, you know, as Jackson alluded to, it was a huge fade for him last off season.
49:56I didn't see it. I believed in the talent.
49:59I was wrong. That being said, I think the hate may have gone too far and his true value probably lies somewhere in between.
50:06Agree. He should probably be somewhere in that late fourth, early fifth.
50:10And there's a pretty good value. Yep. Yeah. And this is the spot in the draft where I'm, this happens to me every year.
50:18I'm basically taking elite wide receivers until there aren't any.
50:21And then I'll take running backs because that's where we found Javante Williams last year.
50:26Right? Like, so you get these guys, like there's, that's where Cam Scadabo came from last year.
50:31Right? Post fifth, sixth round where you can, where there was no more, you know, elite wide receivers left, but there were
50:38running backs who could all of a sudden be like kind of awesome.
50:42They shall toot and further down, we're going to talk about, but there's always these running backs with, with legit upside that are further down the board.
50:51I want to tether my team to having four or five, six, depending on how deep the starting rosters are elite wide
50:58receivers that I don't, I set and forget. I'm not playing, you know, fantasy whack-a-mole with my wide receivers that I have 12 of.
51:06And I'm like, which one should I play? I want to do that with running backs.
51:11And I want to play the running back. That's got, you know, a start this George Helani is starting week two or so.
51:18I'll put George Helani in the virgen lineup, but I'm never going to do that with, you know, the, the wide receiver equivalent further down the board.
51:27So this is the point where I'm with you.
51:30I'm just taking all these widers. I'm looking at even Jamison Williams, who has dunked on me two straight years and has had top 15 wide receiver finishes.
51:38Yes. Sometimes infuriating with goose eggs, but he's finished there.
51:42He's going at wide receiver 28 Jalen Waddle, uh, who we're going to get to, but this is crazy.
51:48This is where all this wide receiver value just sort of stacks up and I'm looking to smash at home.
51:54And we're back on dynasty underground going through round by round in startup ADP via OTC FFP.com to find you the best
52:01values, the most mispriced ADPs and the players who could see the biggest jumps after this coming season.
52:07So we're going to get into the seventh round.
52:10Now, guys, we've gone through the first six, we're going to go through 10 rounds on this show and then we'll cut it off.
52:17Check out that ADP tool and let us know what you find out of any of those rounds that are after the 10th round, maybe.
52:25So looking at the seventh Jacks, you mentioned, uh, previously Jalen Waddle is one of those wide receivers you'd be firing on at wide receiver 29.
52:34I think he's an absolute steal there. Joe, do you see anything popping out for you in the seventh round?
52:40That's, that's, uh, staring at you. Joe, Joe, I'm just going to say real quick before you go that actually, if you
52:47look at Jalen Waddle here at wide receiver 29, that's about where the line of demarcation is for young stud wide receivers.
52:54Now, again, you can define that however you wish, but I'm just basically saying, look, guys that are, you know, 27 or
53:01less and like still pretty productive, you know? And I think that's where the line ends.
53:06And then you get into the DJ Moores and, you know, players like that, just Alec Pierce, who I'm not sure of,
53:13you know, just different types of bets after Jalen Waddle, who's a clear wide receiver one for his own team and still relatively at least young.
53:21So anyway, long story short, I just was trying to point out that at that point, once they're all gone, now I'm
53:29just looking at all the other positions and just smashing them as I go and maybe picking off some wide receiver value here and there.
53:36But now I'm ready to just take value at other positions.
53:40That's just my strategy here at, uh, at this point.
53:43So some of these running backs are a little bit dirtier, but I actually like a lot of the running backs here
53:50just because they're here and not higher. That makes sense.
53:53Well, um, I completely agree. This is about the turning point where it's just like best available slash, you know, kind of
54:00combination of age and upside is what you're looking for or that dirty, cheap old production.
54:05Yeah. But, um, I mean, I think it would be just so cliche of me to, um, bang the drum for Basial Tootin one more time.
54:14That is my real, that is my, that is my real, you're wearing the shirt.
54:19Bang it. That is my real answer here, but I'm not, I'm going to spare the people.
54:24They know how much I love Basial Tootin. Uh, the, the case keeps getting stronger for him.
54:29And I think that's going to continue to be the case.
54:33I think he could easily be a, I don't know, third round pick this time next year in startups, right?
54:39I think he could be in that echelon. Yeah.
54:42Uh, with his big playability in that offense at his age, um, definitely could be, and should be probably in that chase
54:49Brown range at the very least this time next year.
54:52I agree. Um, but, uh, I think the answer to me is a little unorthodox here, but I'm going to go with Tyler shot.
55:00And, you know, this is one that we were making fun of last year.
55:04Uh, and we're just big, wrong, loud, wrong about, but now we're in year two, Chuck, Kellen Moore offense.
55:11They brought in weapons around them by way of, um, my boy, Oscar Delp and, uh, oh, that one wide receiver they
55:18took in the top 10 as well. Um, so it just keeps getting better for him and they brought an ETN also.
55:25They still have Kamara. It's like all of the easy buttons are going to be there for him in a fast paced offense.
55:32I don't think Moore is getting fired anytime soon.
55:35So assuming he doesn't have a big time sophomore slump and fall flat on his face in a high volume offense.
55:41I think he is a player that could be viewed in a much more favorable light a year from now.
55:48So I, I sent out a tweet, Joe, and the, the thought exercise was very simple in my mind.
55:54I was going through the quarterbacks that are, you know, all the quarterbacks in the NFL and saying, okay, of the ones
56:01that are starting right now, or, you know, even Mendoza who may not be starting, but he's, you know, one of the
56:08top 20, 30, you know, uh, quarterbacks in dynasty, of course, of those guys, how many of these guys are sure to be starting week one, 2027, right?
56:17So fast forward a year from now and there's the starting quarterback for their team in 2027 that really almost nothing conceivably
56:24could happen to them in the 2026 season that would separate them from their job.
56:29Tyler Shuck is not one of those players. He is.
56:32Shuck has major, major tuxedo risk. Yes. Oh yeah.
56:35He is the quarterback. He is the quarterback tuxedo risk of the 2026 season.
56:39It's like, oh yeah. Fast face offense to young wide receivers.
56:43Yes. Good tight ends. Good running game. What could go wrong?
56:46Yeah. And if he falls flat on his face, it's like, oh, well, yeah, no, this guy was a second round pick that we hated as a prospect.
56:55Like obviously this wasn't going to work. Yes. He is the, he's prancing around in the tuxedo as we speak.
57:02Oh my God. That needs to be, that needs to be the thumbnail.
57:06He's handsome. It's got to be Shuck in a tuxedo.
57:09Yeah. With his helmet on. A tuxedo. So good.
57:12A shuxedo. The entire Saints offense. Shuxedo for the win.
57:15Yeah. The entire Saints offense is cloaked in a shuxedo right now.
57:19And that's the episode, episode title. Shuxedo risk. Oh my God.
57:22Dude. It's so good. It's a nice three piece or if it was bought at the thrift store yet, but time will tell.
57:30Holy shit. Shuxedo is hilarious. Yeah. I thought that was a good one.
57:34Wow. That is so good. I'm here all week.
57:37I'm here all week. Yep. That was funny. I have an alarming amount of Shuck in best ball too, but he's going a lot later.
57:45That's a nice play in best ball this year, especially with the stack oppos too.
57:49I like that, Joe. I like that. Absolutely. I was going to throw, you guys know I'm a little bit bullish on Cam Ward.
57:57I was going to throw that kind of the theme of the round.
58:01As we can see, there's four quarterbacks in this round.
58:04Cam Ward, man. I think I'm doing a bit of a study on what the realistic expectations can be of these pylon quarterbacks.
58:12And I'll tell you, it's definitely not a top five perennial quarterback.
58:15We know that already, but these guys can still be strong quarterback to producers.
58:20And I think at this place in a draft, if we look at Cam Ward and we think he can be one
58:27of those guys who can throw for 4,000 and reach near 30 touchdowns.
58:31I think he's one of those guys who probably has less things that could happen to him in 26 to ruin his
58:38starting job in 27 than does a shuck. So I would be going Cam Ward there just for some of that maybe stability that I think he has.
58:47And then I think 26 will bring him with a solid season, albeit he is going to be a pylon.
58:53So that upside is limited, but I think he could be a solid one.
58:58This is the middle of that middle class that I'm talking about, right?
59:02It's really like QB eight to QB 24. It's like, could the QB 24?
59:07I don't even know who that is. Could they rise to QB eight?
59:11Yeah. Matthew Stafford, Kyler Murray at 23, Darnold at 22, Stroud at 21, 801 as we look in the eighth round.
59:17I will say I prefer Darnold and Stroud over Ward and shuck, not because I think that their ceiling is higher, but
59:24their floor seems way more secure in 2026. And, you know, I, I think it comes down to that thing where, you
59:31know, I hate to make a pick. And then the next year it's just worthless.
59:36You know, the Caleb Johnson, not, not to, you know, call out your boy there, Joe, we all, we all, you know, you get my point.
59:44You, you make that pick and you're like, it's just dead.
59:48I mean, we've all done it. It's not a, it's not a Joe thing.
59:52It's, you know, it just happens and you're just trying your damnedest to avoid it.
59:57And so just sort of peeking at the, what the trap door looks like and trying to see if there's any, you
60:04know, Hey, is this floral, you know, looking down there?
60:07Cause we have, we're so hopeful with every pick shuck.
60:11Yeah. He's got a love. He's got this. Kellen Moore.
60:14This is going to be great. And yeah, that's there.
60:17That ceiling exists. I see that. I agree with what you're saying there.
60:21I just also think it's healthy to be like, if it doesn't go well and they're losing and he's kind of like,
60:28if he is the tuxedo risk, like they're going to be like, you know, it's, it's Kenny Pickett.
60:34It's Zach Wilson. It's all these guys. Kenny Pickett dude was being traded for a first round pick.
60:40I know because I traded him away for a first round pick after his rookie year.
60:45It's what it is. And I think shuck isn't even bringing that high, you know, a price right now, but like there
60:52is still that optimism, you know, so I would just be careful as all buyer beware.
60:57Yeah. And I think with that, like, as we get further down in these rounds, you can have more tolerance for that type of shuckseed risk.
61:05Right. So here in the eighth round is where you're starting to take on a little bit more of that risk.
61:12And so if you have some of that belief, like Joe is saying he has, I can see you taking some more of those shots.
61:20By the way, before we go, any cells, cause I've got a couple I'd like to mention.
61:25Yeah. There's a couple. I would be selling Kyler Murray for sure.
61:29If somebody wants to know. I'm in the, in the seventh.
61:33Oh, the seventh. Right. We're back in the seventh.
61:35That's right. No, just quickly. Is there, is there, is there a, is there a sell there?
61:41The guys I'm not crazy about, obviously Kenyon Sadiq.
61:44I think we've talked about this ad nauseum. I think Jadarian Price, as interesting as he is, is a first round running back.
61:51Like I don't feel great about that. And he was just barely a first round running back on a team that has
61:58been known to bench first round running backs for more productive undrafted guys behind him.
62:03Yeah. There's a, there's a bunch of guys. I mean, Kenyon Sadiq, RJ Harvey is a bit of a sell for me,
62:10as you guys know, especially at RB 25. No, thank you.
62:13You know, Jadarian Price, at least I can see the temporary upside, you know, for a year or two.
62:19He has what RJ Harvey had last year going in, you know, it's like, Hey, he's going to be good.
62:26So, you know, at least he's priced in that general vicinity of where, you know, Harvey's at now.
62:32But I'm with you because we may get to it in a minute.
62:36And of course I will. But like, when you look at Kenyon Sadiq, there is a tight end going much later than
62:43the tight end nine at the 709 that I'd much rather have.
62:47So I think we'll get there in a moment.
62:49So yeah, let's get into this eighth round here because right at the top, I think the guy that you were talking about is the 802 Oronde Gadsden.
62:58At even further down, buddy, even further down. Okay, well, we're going to get there then, buddy.
63:04Let's let's just rule our jets on that. That's exciting, sir.
63:07Or I think Oronde Gadsden as the tight end 10 in the eighth round is incredible.
63:12We all have him in our top seven comfortably and him going at tight end 10.
63:17I'd be smashing him at the eighth round. I think I was mentioning to you guys off air.
63:23I have an article similar to this flavor that maybe goes a little bit more rounds.
63:28It's going to talk about some of my favorite players to target in those rounds.
63:33So spoiler alert, Oronde Gadsden is my eighth round selection.
63:36So super excited to write that one up. Joe, what are you seeing?
63:40I don't think you're getting Gadsden in the eighth round.
63:44I think that if you want Gadsden, you have to take him in the seventh.
63:48I mean, I'm actually noticing it. Obviously, this is not apples to apples.
63:53And if you actually look at his ADP over time, it's been dropping.
63:57And that's probably because of the addition of David Njoku.
64:00So I don't know. Maybe you can't get Gadsden in the eighth round because people are freaked out about Njoku.
64:06That couldn't be more wrong. I mean, it couldn't be more wrong.
64:10And not only that, I mean, we literally just saw another dope young player just put Njoku in the passenger seat.
64:17And Harold Fann, right? Yep. So why can Gadsden do the same thing, even in two tight ends?
64:23It's like, great. Yeah. And Njoku, great blocker. Have him do that while Gadsden's running down the seam, having 160-yard games as rookie tight ends, right?
64:31Tell me who else is doing that at that age, right?
64:34So, yeah. No, he's given us all the buy signals.
64:38If you're not a believer yet and you're scared of latter day Njoku, I'm sorry.
64:42And please don't pass up on him if he falls to you in the eighth.
64:47So aside from... With that, real quick, not to mention that Gadsden has a doper play caller than did Harold Fannin last year.
64:54So, yeah, much like you said, if you are thinking that Oronde Gadsden takes a hit, you are in Jokin.
65:01Yeah. And not only that, but his play caller also just emphasizes mismatches, right?
65:05And so where is he going to get that mismatch, right?
65:09And if Lad McConkie, you know, who we talked about, he can play inside and outside.
65:14But when he's outside, it's like not the best, right?
65:17He's not like a dominant outside receiver. He's adequate outside receiver and awesome in slot.
65:22I think that mismatch is going to more often than not exist with a dude like Gadsden.
65:27So, yeah, I've been acquiring as much as I can.
65:30I've drafted him in startups much higher than this and would continue to do so because I think I've got him at, yeah, six, probably six or seven.
65:39I can't recall. Yeah. Outside of that, in this eighth round, I don't know, man.
65:44These are a bunch of maybes. These are a bunch of maybes.
65:48I think Christian Watson has my attention. But, I mean, Wilson and Watson, but they're like the same bet, right?
65:54They're the same bet. And if you were to ask me objectively, I'd say they're bad bets.
66:00Like what we saw last season, we can't unsee.
66:03But out of this group, I don't know. I think I've got the answer.
66:07The answer in this group is Casey Concepcion. He's the one, absolutely, because he's the one that, like, if you're here with
66:14Arande Gadsden, by the way, I think C.J. Stroud also is someone I'd be happy to catch the falling knife with.
66:21Same thing with Sam Darnold. These are the types of quarterbacks I'm like, sweet.
66:25I got Sam Darnold out here. Like, this is great.
66:28But I would be willing to take Casey Concepcion even a round or two earlier than this.
66:34I do think he's in and among those other wide receivers that I mentioned, Young, Stud.
66:39Again, is he a stud? Of course we don't know.
66:42But he is a first-round wide receiver, drafted as the wide receiver one on his team, albeit a team with a lot of question marks.
66:50There is no doubt about that. But someone's going to get the targets, and it sounds like it's going to be Casey
66:57Concepcion that's in that sort of alpha queen chess piece chair.
67:01And he's got all the requisite skills and, you know, model sort of traits that we like to see, size, speed, everything else is also checking boxes.
67:09I think Casey Concepcion at this particular point is an absolute steal.
67:13I'd be taking him well ahead of this. I want to go back to, I like that take.
67:19I think Casey Concepcion is probably a six-round pick next year because I think he is going to become that wide receiver one in Cleveland.
67:27I want to go back to Christian Watson because I think he is the guy that is glaring here out of these
67:34wide receiver groups who I think has massive upside.
67:37He was so good when he came back last year.
67:40I think the only risk is that he gets injured.
67:43And this is the eighth round. This is where I'm going to have a little bit more tolerance for that kind of
67:50risk if I'm in the need for a wide receiver.
67:53So if I drafted, like you mentioned, Jackson, I've got four or five wide receivers right now.
67:59Maybe I'm not doing this. But if we look at Christian Watson, that team is begging for an alpha.
68:05Matthew Golden is not it. I put out a tweet earlier this week.
68:09His current ADP right now in startups is right around wide receiver 34 here in the back of the eighth.
68:15In the last 10 weeks of last season, he was 14th in receiving yards among wide receivers, eighth in yards per route
68:22run, fifth in touchdowns, third in deep targets. We know that chicks dig the long ball.
68:27And then he was fifth in fantasy points per route run with 0.58.
68:32So those are top 10 wide receiver numbers that he was putting up over the back half of the season.
68:38So if he's healthy, I think he has that type of upside in 2026.
68:42I love it. I tend to agree. He seems like the lock to kind of be the every down wide receiver or
68:49the highest plays wide receiver on Green Bay, assuming health, which is a big assumption with him.
68:55And that's the tantalizing upside and the terrifying downside with him, which is why he's here and not significantly higher.
69:01He probably just based on the upside could be, you could make a cash from in the 20s.
69:07Yeah. And right now I just went to sleepers ADP just to see where they have them.
69:12Sometimes there's a lag or whatever. He's at wide receiver 36.
69:16So, you know, very close to here. I was wondering if sometimes you'll be able to get Christian Watson a bit later
69:23than wide receiver 34 is what I guess I'm getting at.
69:26And he may be one of those players that like falls in your lap.
69:31I'd love for Christian Watson to fall in my lap, you know, in a startup draft where it's just like, dude, 10-0-1.
69:38I just, you know what I mean? Like where it's just stupid, right?
69:42So there's some spots like that. And he's the type of player I'd love for that to happen to me.
69:48There was a startup that I called or texted you guys to help me with where I was debating some stuff at
69:55the end of the seventh, beginning of the eighth, where I was wide receiver needy.
70:00And anyways, long story short, I think you guys talked me out of Michael Wilson and Christian Watson there.
70:06And I traded on my eighth round pick. I moved up a little bit in the seventh and then I had a
70:13couple of nights and they both, this is in April, of course, but they both fell to me in the ninth round.
70:20And so I just double tapped them. I was like, one of them is probably going to work out and it's going to be an adequate starter.
70:29And the other one's probably going to be a disappointment.
70:32And I'm not sure which one, but yeah. To my point.
70:36Yeah. Yeah. To your point. But I don't think he's falling much further than ninth and given the recent steam and the
70:43new contract, I think it's much more likely that you'll get Wilson in the ninth than you will Watson at this point.
70:50Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a little bit of tuxedo risk with Michael Wilson, but I'm not going to get too deep into that right now.
70:58No, you're right though. That's true. When we get into that 10 Oh one Jacks, you only got about a 15% chance of getting Christian Watson there.
71:07So yeah, probably late eighth is, is where you got to go for him.
71:11You could try and stretch it to the ninth, but be okay with not getting him in that situation.
71:17Very nice boys on that, on that eighth round.
71:20Let's take a look at the ninth here. Your boy, Omar Cooper slots in as the nine Oh four Jacks.
71:27Wandale, the nine Oh six. I think that's a little bit scary for me.
71:31What are you guys seeing in the ninth round?
71:34You want me to go ahead and go ahead.
71:37Well, it's Dalton Kincaid, right? I mean, Oh yeah, this was the tight end.
71:41I mean, look, I'm not a huge Dalton Kincaid fan, but he was super efficient per route run.
71:47If he can just find his way onto the field a bit more, he was a trusted target for, for Josh Allen.
71:54I think he's, he hasn't put up the raw numbers that were necessary seeking because of the limited playing time.
72:00There's been some injury. There's been some behind Dawson Knox stuff.
72:04There's just, just some stuff. I just wonder if they can find a way to get them on.
72:10He doesn't even have to be a hundred percent snap share player.
72:13He just needs to be, you know, 70 ish, right?
72:17Just kind of enough to have some viability. So I think Dalton Kincaid, especially at the tight end position where we're talking, he's the tight end 12.
72:25He's almost at the 10 on one nine 11 ADP.
72:28You know, we were talking outside the top 100 picks, right?
72:32This is just, I don't know. To me, this is like easy money.
72:36You just really want to not overthink it and get yourself a player at Dalton Kincaid, especially.
72:42I don't know, man. I just give me Dalton Kincaid at this price.
72:46That's all I'm saying. Yep. For me, there's one clear, clear answer here and that's Malik Willis.
72:51Yep. And it's just an asymmetrical upside bet. What did we talk about off the top, right?
72:57Who are the quarterbacks that are going early? It's the dudes that have the rushing floor combined with, you know, passing efficiency
73:04that gets them into that upper echelon. Here's your chance.
73:07I'll be it a low probability one that Malik Willis is the answer in Miami.
73:12That Malik Willis actually is the dude we want him to be.
73:15Hope he is what he was kind of hyped up as during the pre-draft process in his leading up to his rookie year.
73:23And then the disappointment that followed, the journeyman that figures it out in the middle of his career on his third contract.
73:30Right? This is the screaming upside play, especially in Superflex League, obviously.
73:34So I'm willing to take the shot on Malik Willis.
73:37I've gotten him in, I think, both of the startups that I did where I grabbed the CJ Stroud in the eighth round.
73:44And I'm like, OK, cool. I'm good with CJ Stroud as my QB2.
73:48And that's my safety net backup plan. But I'm going to go for upside with Malik Willis the next round, because if
73:55he hits, he's a top 10 quarterback. He's probably like a top seven quarterback with the rushing upside.
74:01So that's the bet I'm willing to make. And I love adding him as the QB3 with QB1 upside.
74:07And he will never be valued as a top 10 quarterback ever, ever.
74:11He could produce that way for three seasons, and he probably wouldn't be a top 10 dynasty quarterback in Malik Willis.
74:18And we're talking about that quarterback upside. Obviously, you need some rushing.
74:22I think in a Superflex League, one of those quarterbacks for me has to be somebody who brings some rushing.
74:28And so as you were talking, you got to it, Joe, talking about Stroud.
74:33But I was thinking I was talking about Ward.
74:35If you waited on quarterbacks and you tap a Ward in the seventh and you come back and you get yourself a
74:42little bit of Malik Willis in the ninth, I think that's a decent little pairing like you're mentioning.
74:48So, yeah. Well, I've got Malik Willis in a couple of leagues and everywhere I've got him.
74:54I'm just thinking like he could be, you know, production wise.
74:57It's the Anthony Richardson thing where it's like, look, if he plays, I'm pretty sure he's going to be a top 15 quarterback in fantasy.
75:05Joe, the biggest problem, and I mean, I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but the biggest problem with Malik Willis
75:12is the rest of this offense that just seems like, I'm like, who's he?
75:17What is it? Dulcich and like Malik Washington are his weapon?
75:20Like, this is crazy. Yeah. Right? I mean, Chris Bell's not even ready yet.
75:25I mean, he's an ACL repair coming back. Like, so, you know, I really do love the player and the potential upside.
75:32Like, honestly, if he was on like any other team with a starting opportunity, like the whole Arizona thing is one that
75:39kills me because I mean, he would just absolutely shred in Arizona.
75:42But unfortunately, he's not there. So, you know, the what we can reasonably expect in Miami is not good.
75:48And then on the flip side, Miami is going to be like, well, we're just tanking anyway.
75:54Like, so they don't really even have a commitment to winning.
75:57So even if Malik Willis is winning or not winning or whatever, like they could be so flippant with him and just
76:04be like, oh, yeah, we're just going to sit him.
76:08And like, there's just so many like outcomes where it's not even his fault and he could be, you know, not playing.
76:15On top of that, there's the ones that could be his fault.
76:18That are the reasons he's not playing. So there's a there's a ton of outs that are not good.
76:24The one where he just stays on the field and plays all season.
76:29You know, I just don't know exactly where that upside lies.
76:32Well, the upside. I mean, you get him at QB 26 prices and he could be a QB 10 by production.
76:39Right. That's where the upside lies. And it could be just based entirely on rushing.
76:44Right. Is that a longevity play? No, it's a gamble.
76:47Yeah. In the ninth round is where I'm willing to gamble, because if you hit, you hit big.
76:53Yep. And so that's like that. That's the whole thing.
76:56Well, you think of it this way, Joe. Joe, last year we were drafting Stafford and Devante in this range.
77:02Right. Yeah. And the bet wasn't that Stafford was going to retain this job for five years.
77:07It was a one or two year bet. We knew that.
77:11But we felt like it was going to be such a great season.
77:15That it was worth it. Now, for different reasons, Malik Willis is a similar bet.
77:20Yeah. Right. You know, funny how contrasting those are.
77:23Yeah. It is. But what did you need from Stafford?
77:26You needed the 7% touchdown rate. Guess what? He hit it.
77:29Yeah. Totally. He hit it. And we cashed. Right.
77:3250 rushing yards a game from Malik Willis. And he could hit that.
77:37Exactly. Exactly. And he probably will do that because they're going to run the ball a lot.
77:42He'll be running for his damn life. Give me 175 yards, two touchdowns, and 50 rushing yards a game.
77:48I'm going to be a very, very happy Malik Willis owner until week eight when he gets hurt and or gets matched.
77:55Yeah. And I'll take those wins. I'm not above that.
77:58I'll take those wins. Yeah. You'd be a happy little swinger.
78:02Hey, Joe? Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, the great thing is also if he does perform well but fails because of his
78:09surrounding cast, he seems like the kind of guy that's going to have a job for a long time and end up being a backup somewhere else.
78:17It's not like he's going to be a roster clogger.
78:21It's going to be a guy you want on your team anyways, right?
78:25It could very well have a bit of a ping pong, you know, bounce around and then finally land somewhere else opportunity type of thing.
78:33Yeah. Absolutely. For sure. Yeah. A little Jacoby Brissette career arc or something like that.
78:37Yep. Another guy who's looking at me who gets a lot of steam.
78:42I'm still not 100% sure if I'm sold on Parker Washington, but if people think that he's going to be the wide
78:49receiver one in Jacksonville at the 912, I think that's definitely some value there.
78:53Yeah. And hey, shout out to my guy Chuba Hubbard.
78:56Canadian. Absolute afterthought for fantasy gamers. Absolute afterthought. But maybe not for Dynasty, but I think this coming season he could have a decent year.
79:04Jonathan Brooks is no sure thing. Rico Dowdle is no longer in the picture.
79:09Chuba Hubbard has been the workhorse for this team before.
79:12So just had to give a shout out to my fellow Canadian and a guy who I once got the chance to interview.
79:19Voice. I think we all know what Chuba Hubbard is and what the downfall and what the pitfalls are.
79:25I actually really want to have the Parker Washington conversation with you guys.
79:29I don't think we've had this conversation. Not yet.
79:32And I don't know how to feel. I've always liked the talent.
79:36I've always liked the player. It seems like everything they've said this offseason is talking about getting him on the field more,
79:43giving him a more diverse route tree, having him play more outside.
79:47And that's exactly what we want. A dude that was a slot that now starts playing outside a little bit.
79:53It's like check, check, check. But obviously, Jacoby Myers, target earner.
79:57Brian Thomas, you know, freak athlete that was, you know, he's the prince that was promised.
80:02And then talk about prince that was promised. And Travis Hunter, also on that team.
80:07You mean he who shall not be named? Opposite Harry Potter character, sir.
80:11Yeah. And then they draft two tight ends signaling they're going to try and play more 12 and possibly even the 13
80:18personnel thing as a guy from the McVay tree running the offense here.
80:22So there are just so many question marks, which I think is suppressing all of their value.
80:27But I'm genuinely perplexed with Parker Washington. I don't have zero exposure.
80:31Yeah. I have some. I feel like I should have more.
80:35But I want to just have the conversation with you guys.
80:38You guys remember Travis Fulgham? Yeah. Big stretch he had with the Eagles.
80:42I'm not saying that. I think. That wasn't a big stretch.
80:46That was a two-week stretch. It was like four weeks.
80:49Four weeks. So Parker Washington was longer than that.
80:52But I'm saying, what I'm saying is Parker Washington has a better chance at that.
80:57But that fizzle out outcome is in his range of outcomes.
81:00You know what I mean? Sure. And so that's what scares me a little bit.
81:05Kind of like piggybacking on what you said, Joe.
81:08It just feels a little bit scary. At 9-12, okay, it's fine.
81:12And we can kind of take shots there if we need a wide receiver.
81:16But it just feels a little bit scary to be anchoring to the fact that he's going to be what we saw for that small sample last year.
81:25I don't disagree with that. But I will just note, I picked up on Parker Washington in his rookie year when he made a couple of plays.
81:34I was like, dude, this guy's pretty damn good.
81:37Yes. And then he kind of got buried. And then he reemerges last year and becomes the focal point of the passing game.
81:44And literally after we thought it had officially become Jacoby Myers, like Parker Washington sort of took over, especially down the stretch.
81:51So while we're talking, I'm just going to try and find his OTC score.
81:55So you guys keep going. I'm going to pull up Parker Washington's OTC score.
82:00By the way, while you're doing that, any idea how old Parker Washington is?
82:04I'm going to say he's 25. Yeah, he's 24.
82:07Oh, damn. Damn. He's younger than Ricky Pearsall. Hmm.
82:10Hmm. Just saying. Damn good. That's pretty damn good.
82:13I mean, you know, so I think there's something to this Parker Washington thing.
82:17I think he is pretty good, Joe, to your point.
82:21And but I don't know how much that means because he's playing with Brian Thomas Jr.
82:26He's playing with with Jacoby Myers. He's playing with Travis Hunter or is he?
82:30I'm not sure. But at least those two guys, I think he's going to be on the field.
82:36And I think he's going to be good. But there's a lot of I thinks and I'm not sure is there.
82:43And that's really my biggest issue. If it was somehow like just carved out for him a little bit better, I'd be all in.
82:50But of course, his price would be higher. But I think at this price, it's worth it because, you know, you're drafting him right around Ricky Pearsall.
82:59I'd much rather have Parker Washington than Ricky Pearsall.
83:02Definitely. Me personally, for sure. Oh, yeah. You know, so at that particular point, you know, I'm fine with it.
83:08I think there are some other pretty interesting bets around Parker Washington, like a Jaden Higgins and things like that.
83:15But I think he's in the right zone. Yeah.
83:17I think if if you built your team in a way where you can afford this swing, it's worth it.
83:24You know? Yeah. And I think I know his.
83:27Yeah. Go ahead, Joe. I was going to say his OTC score was a 58.69.
83:31So not good. Not good. Not good. Not the kind of guy we bet on.
83:36I mean, obviously, when you've shown something in the league that supersedes this a little bit, but we do take it with a grain of salt.
83:44Um, I'm kind of inclined to. I'm I'm it pushes me more towards doubt on a guy I'm on the fence about.
83:52I agree. Right. He's not even in the maybe zone.
83:55He's in the this is a bad bet zone.
83:58Yeah. And that sample I'm talking about is from week nine on last season.
84:02He was the wide receiver 17 in points per game with 14.2.
84:06He would be the wide receiver 18 boys, but I excluded one player who only had one game played.
84:12This one player was the wide receiver two in points per game between weeks nine through 18.
84:17Only one game played, but that player was Torrey Horton.
84:21I just felt like we had to, you know, pump our guy a little bit might be the last chance we ever
84:28get to fucking pump him if I'm being completely honest.
84:31So Torrey Horton was the wide receiver two in points per game from week nine on last year, folks.
84:37Yes. Um, yeah, that's good. Good Parker. Oh, what a week it was.
84:41Good Parker, Washington conversation. And I think one that there's going to be a lot of fantasy gamers on the edge of
84:48their seats about to see that one play out for sure.
84:51You know, it's funny. You're looking at the page where Parker Washington is on this page and it's like the best players.
84:58There's a whole page and these are the best players in and around him at the OTC score.
85:04It's like, uh, hold on. Let me find some Khalil Shakir.
85:08Um, hold on. It's hard to find good ones.
85:11Khalil Shakir. Of course, Terry McLaurin, Romeo dubs. When you say around when Terry McLaurin was in the sixties, was he not?
85:1859. Oh, wow. Okay. That's the best comp for sure.
85:21That's the highest, the best ceiling comp. Like Boutte and DK Metcalf.
85:25That's the type of players you're looking at there.
85:27So, but that's of, uh, you know, those, those comps, you know, the DK Metcalf, Terry McLaurin, that's, you know, there's 30 players in this like group.
85:36And there's a few that have, that have panned out, you know, uh, amongst the rest is, you know, Gary Jennings juniors
85:43and Jalen Hyatt's and Gabe Davis's and Kyle Phillips and Trey Quan Smith's and Equinemius St.
85:48Brown's and Terrace Marshall's and all the rest of them.
85:51And, you know, there's just a lot of the guys in this area.
85:56Don't, don't pan out. Um, I will say Parker Washington though, at this particular point, I think has done more, especially on
86:03a per route basis than almost anybody in his range.
86:06So it could obviously Terry McLaurin, not, you know, notwithstanding, but yeah, I mean, he's just done, he's done a lot to, to show his way.
86:14And I think once they sort of break through into, uh, into the, the NFL, you kind of have to look at the score a little bit different.
86:23I think it's a good way to pick sleepers and, and guys that we think might turn around, but I think excluding
86:30guys, uh, who have shown that they're still good in the league.
86:34Like I'm, I'm no longer worried about Terry McLaurin.
86:37Right. You know, sometimes, you know, the whole idea of that model is it's not necessarily a linear model, meaning that it's
86:44not trying to just say, Hey, these are the best players.
86:47Cause really draft capital does that. It's really trying to solve for a different equation and it will get some things wrong,
86:54but on the, on the, on the whole, it's obviously an extremely good tool, but yeah, I'm with you.
87:00Sometimes you can see something where it's like, he was also great in the model.
87:05Then you're like, Oh, maybe we should pay attention to this.
87:09But yeah, I just think he was kind of an average prospect to be.
87:13To be sure. Yeah. And you know, to a certain extent though, it is also like, what are they going to do in their first three years?
87:22Right. And, uh, Parker Washington is entering year four.
87:25So didn't do much. Exactly. Right. We're kind of outside.
87:28We're now past that point with him. Um, and he has shown enough to at least give hope, uh, that he's, you know, going to be something.
87:36So I don't know, I guess I'm not walking away any more or less sure about what to do with them.
87:43And just, I'm going to have some shares for fear of missing out.
87:47I can't wait for the cell in round 10 though.
87:50That's what I'm looking forward to. Let's get to it.
87:54Let's get to it. Yeah. I mean, 10.01 is Ricky Pearsall.
87:57He is definitely staring at us there. I see it.
88:00It's 10.08. Isn't it? Jax, why don't you give it away?
88:0410.09. 10.09. Oh. Rip it. Let the people know who it is.
88:08It's Brenton Strange. It's Brenton Strange. Yeah. I'm only having fun.
88:11I'm only having fun with my friend. While Joe was off in Vegas trying to get some strange, Jax was sitting here
88:18trying to figure out how you could shit on Brenton Strange.
88:22Joe was in Vegas on the wrong side of the ratio in a threesome.
88:26Right. Yeah. You're back in your happy place though, Joe.
88:29We've got you. We've got you. This is the threesome you need.
88:3310.09. We selling Brenton Strange, Jax? Yeah. Come on.
88:36We're not even thinking about it. Zero shares, zero cares.
88:39Do I even have, I think I have one Brenton Strange and it's obviously a league Joe's not in.
88:45Um, I guess I would have sold him already.
88:48Bottom line is you don't love Strange. I mean, anymore.
88:51I don't know how to spell it even. It's spelled wrong here.
88:55Um, here's the thing. There's probably two guys that I really like in this round, but I will say there's actually more than that.
89:03There's two guys toward the bottom here in Denzel Boston and Jaden Higgins, who we talked about are very similar prospects.
89:09And if you're going to be able to get these guys in the 11th round, cause they're 10, 10, 10, 12 here.
89:16Boy, I really love that value for an opportunity at a wide receiver.
89:21That could absolutely be something down the line. Um, I, it's not exactly where I'm taking, um, you know, wide receivers, but
89:28as the ADP is falling, you know, it could be a way to go.
89:32This is where I'm taking like, and you'll see your guy right there.
89:36Blake Corum at the, at the 1101, by the way, also, because we're not going past round 10.
89:42I got to say when we were talking about Chuba Hubbard, I was like, oh, well, where's Jonathan Brooks?
89:48I had to scroll down. He's in the 12th round, like behind you, Corey Krosky Merritt, Jonathan Brooks, not in my leagues, buddy.
89:55Not in my leagues either. There's 0% chance. Jonathan Brooks is getting to the 12th round in any league I'm in.
90:02It's just not happening. I, I would take, so when we were talking about when was RJ Harvey, he was like in the seventh round or the seventh.
90:11Yeah. I have Jonathan Brooks over RJ Harvey straight up, like just straight up.
90:15I would rather have Jonathan Brooks and RJ Harvey today going forward, just period more upside.
90:21Now the downside. Yes, sure. I would say the downside on Brooks is greater than the downside on Harvey, but we're not playing for downside.
90:29We're playing for upside, especially at the running back position.
90:32I mean, what are we doing? I'm just going to take a backup guy who kind of gets in there sometimes.
90:38I just don't see him beating out Dobbins and Coleman in a way where he's like the undisputed, you know, 70% of
90:45everything running back on the Denver Broncos. Yeah. And he's old, but I can see that as a possibility for Jonathan Brooks.
90:52It's definitely in the cards and the way that the front office and coaching staff is talking, it may be more likely than not.
91:00So the lesson, again, just as a takeaway for the listener, if you're sitting in the eighth round looking at RJ Harvey,
91:07you trade back to like the late 10th, early 11th, and maybe pick up another 12th round pick.
91:13And you go grab yourself some Jonathan Brooks and another, you know, I don't know, aging wide receiver or something that you can lay in there.
91:21It's all Boston or Jaden Higgins along with him.
91:24Yeah. Yeah, exactly. If you get like a 10, 11 turn for the eighth, for like an eight 14th, eighth round pick
91:31and a 14th round pick, you do that and you take Brooks and Boston or Higgins and you're coming out ahead.
91:38Yes. This is kind of how you play the startups and exploit the flawed, very, very flawed ADPs.
91:43Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I can't even imagine why he would be that far down the board.
91:49It doesn't even make any sense to me. Like, yeah, it's crazy.
91:52What you're doing there is you're doing a little bit of succession planning for your dynasty roster when you're taking a guy
91:59like Denzel Boston and Jonathan Brooks, because Jonathan Brooks is only 22 years old.
92:04Right. If we're looking at his probability at the 1101, it's 86% that you will get in there.
92:10And I would be fine with taking him at the top of the 11th round because the upside is just fat, especially
92:17for a running back in this zone. Like you've been talking about Jack's.
92:21Yes. I think that's absolutely money in the 12th round.
92:24So yeah, I think that's a good wrap boys.
92:27We got through the 10th round, gave a couple of extra guys that we liked in these rounds here.
92:33I think that was a fun show. Got to showcase the ADP tool as well.
92:38Joe, any big takeaways as we look at this ADP and ride out?
92:42Well, I think my takeaway, and it's not so much a takeaway for me, but just something I want to point out
92:49to the listener, like our website has so many cool tools.
92:52I'm actually still discovering some of the tools, but the year over year startup ADP values kind of tells you what historically has happened.
93:00And when you click on that tab, you can kind of see where you can typecast players in terms of like, okay,
93:07who was being valued like this last year and where are they now?
93:11Who is being typecast like this this year? And where do I think they're going to be a year from now?
93:18And that's that in and of itself can kind of lead you to steer clear of certain prototypes.
93:24Exactly. And that's all that in and of itself is super valuable.
93:27But I mean, when you can look at these charts and understand the direction the ADP is going and understand the probabilities
93:34of landing the player at a certain spot, I don't know of a better tool out there.
93:40It's like, seriously, I can't wait to do this startup.
93:43Now, of course, we're going to be playing with a bunch of people.
93:47We just told about the tools. Yeah. So it's going to throw a lot of whack.
93:52But I don't know. I feel like I've just been selling this thing for so long.
93:57You know what's cool? You know what's cool, Joe?
94:00Joe, you can actually go from like 21 to 22, 22 to 23.
94:04But anywhere from 2021 to 2026, you can see how players have year over year fallen.
94:09So even you could do between 2021 and 2026, although I think there's less to learn about that.
94:15But you could still see who the biggest riser or faller was from that day to today, which is kind of fun.
94:22So you could even take a two-year chunk, you know, 2023 to 2025 or whatever the case, you know, to try and
94:29use it as a little bit of a research tool or just fun as hell to play with.
94:35So totally. The year over year is the most telling, I think, to me, because you'll see these 30 year olds where
94:42something happens to them and all of a sudden their value falls off a cliff.
94:47So you have to understand the game that you're playing there.
94:50Well, and I think of, you know, I'm kind of deep into like data studies right now with writing some articles and things like that.
94:58I think of taking a look. So you want to take a position group, right?
95:03Okay. What was the movement for quarterbacks from 21 to 22, from 22 to 23, from 23 to 24?
95:09How did the running backs get impacted in that time and the wide receivers?
95:14And now what we're going to be seeing over the next couple of years is the tight ends with the heavier sets.
95:21And we've been talking about the fact that the tight end two on an NFL team is going to start to be
95:28a little bit more valuable over the next few years than maybe the wide receiver three is going to be.
95:34So I think there's just so many things that you can do with it.
95:38I think we've just scratched the surface on this show.
95:42And like Joe said, there's still times where we're finding out new things that Keegan's got in there that we didn't even know.
95:49So shout out to Keeg for all the great work.
95:52Shout out to all of the supporters who have signed up, the users, whether you're on a free or a paid account.
95:59We appreciate that you're checking our stuff out. And we really just want you getting in there, letting us know what's good
96:06about it, letting us know what could be sicker for you, because we want to be responsive and make this a tool for the people.
96:14So true that Jax, any parting shots before I ride this bad boy out?
96:19You said it. I mean, I think it's important to let the listeners and the users know that we are all ears
96:26and that we are constantly I mean, honestly, our little group chat is like, how can we make this thing better?
96:32Yeah. Not how can we exploit anything? It's like literally, how can we make this thing cooler?
96:38Because we love it so much. So it's a it's a tool that we just love making as awesome as possible.
96:44And I will say without saying too much that there may be some exciting things to come in the future.
96:51We are working as hard as we can to do all the things that we wish we could do.
96:57Some of those things are not at our behest.
97:00We do have to get some some help along the way, and we're asking for that help and we're making it happen.
97:07So there's some cool things coming. That's all I'm going to say.
97:11Giddy up for O.T. Giddy up. Giddy up. Giddy up.
97:14So that's another episode in the books for Dynasty Underground for Jax Falcone for Joe Quavius Kuvitakis in the Upside Down Pineapple shirt.
97:21I am Trav. We'll see you next week. Peace.