Harris Fantasy Football Podcast artwork

The Beastly NFC North & Jahmyr Gibbs Preview

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

1 hr 6 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jul 28, 2026
Published
Tue, July 28, 2026
38
Player insights
28
Players mentioned
Topics
Jahmyr GibbsRome OdunzeChristian WatsonD'Andre SwiftJosh JacobsMarShawn LloydAaron JonesBijan RobinsonBlake CorumCaleb WilliamsChristian McCaffreyDalvin CookDavid MontgomeryDemond Claiborne
Player analysis

Player insights

38

Aaron Jones

NegativeInjury47:00

Aaron Jones is ranked 38th among running backs but is not trustworthy health-wise; the source notes he is an older player and something is going to happen injury-wise, which is why his ranking is low. Despite looking really good when healthy, his injury history makes him unreliable.

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Bijan Robinson

NegativeProjection3:30

Harris notes that Robinson, along with Jonathan Taylor and other explosive backs, has a greater claim than Gibbs to goal-line touchdown work, though Gibbs remains Harris's number one overall running back due to superior explosiveness and massive-play generation.

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Blake Corum

NegativeRole23:00

The source questions whether Blake Corum will take over more of the workload from Kyron Williams in the Rams backfield, but expresses skepticism that training camp will provide clarity on this question, suggesting the backfield roles will remain relatively stable barring injury.

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Caleb Williams

NegativeRole21:06

Under Ben Johnson's offensive scheme, the Bears run the ball very well and Johnson is an excellent run game designer, which means the passing game may not see the dramatic target increase some fantasy players are hoping for from the offense.

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Christian McCaffrey

NegativeProjection3:30

Harris lists McCaffrey among the explosive running backs (alongside Bijan Robinson, Jonathan Taylor, Dalvin Cook, and Saquon Barkley) but notes that none of them match Gibbs' level of explosiveness and massive-play generation.

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Christian Watson

NegativeInjury28:18

Christian Watson has a physical issue where one leg is slightly longer than the other, which the source suggests is contributing to his hamstring issues. This is part of broader durability noise around Watson that affects his fantasy outlook.

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NegativeRole32:07

Christian Watson is mentioned alongside Jaden Reed as one of two remaining Packers wide receivers, with both players having health concerns. The context is that Wicks and Dobbs are gone, leaving a thinner receiver room.

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D'Andre Swift

PositiveRole23:00

The source is a notable D'Andre Swift enthusiast (referring to him as 'zero' from his Eagles jersey number), believing Swift will maintain significant usage in the Bears backfield alongside Montauk Guy rather than being displaced. The source has good distance between Swift and Montauk Guy in terms of talent evaluation, favoring Swift.

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NegativeProjection24:43

The source does not view Swift as a superstar-level talent, positioning him as a solid but not elite running back option; this assessment informs the source's draft ranking of Swift at 23.

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Dalvin Cook

NegativeProjection3:30

Harris lists Cook among the explosive running backs (alongside Bijan Robinson, Jonathan Taylor, Christian McCaffrey, and Saquon Barkley) but notes that none of them match Gibbs' level of explosiveness and massive-play generation.

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David Montgomery

NegativeDepth Chart2:48

Montgomery has departed Detroit after the 2025 season. Harris describes him as having 'typewriter feet,' suggesting limited explosiveness. His exit clears the way for Jahmyr Gibbs to become the primary back, though Isaiah Pacheco joins as understudy. The Gibbs-Montgomery partnership, which Harris likens to 'Sonic and Knuckles,' had run its course, particularly as the Lions' offensive line deteriorated.

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Demond Claiborne

NegativeBust48:00

Claiborne is ranked 75th and compared to Brashard Smith; the source warns against buying camp hype on this tiny (5'10", 188 lbs) converted wide receiver. Historical comps (Dre Archer, Chris Rainey, Naheem Hines, Leon Washington, Garrett Wolfe, Chad Morton) all failed to produce fantasy value despite speed and slot usage. Unless Claiborne becomes a feature back like Alvin Kamara, he will not be useful for fantasy. He is expected to be a nonsense August riser who will be drafted around the 100th overall pick despite limited upside.

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Isiah Pacheco

NegativeRole2:48

Pacheco joins the Lions as Gibbs' understudy after departing Kansas City. Harris notes that in Kansas City, Pacheco was routinely pulled for Kareem Hunt near the end zone, suggesting he may not be the primary goal-line back in Detroit either. His role will likely be secondary to Gibbs.

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Jahmyr Gibbs

PositiveProjection1:30

Harris ranks Gibbs as his number one overall running back pick in most formats, primarily because he is the most explosive player at the position. While bigger backs like Bijan Robinson and Jonathan Taylor have greater claim to goal-line work, Gibbs' elite cutback ability and massive-play generation differentiate him in a league where fantasy production is increasingly spread out; he had six runs of 40-plus yards in 2025, most in the league, and made three separate home runs in Week 12 against the Giants including the overtime game winner.

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NegativeBust2:30

Gibbs hunts big plays to an uncomfortable degree, creating volatility in his fantasy output. In 2025, as the Lions' offense became less consistent, he produced stinker stat lines; he exceeded 97 scrimmage yards in only half his games but failed to reach 70 yards six times and was mostly a no-show in the fantasy playoffs, illustrating the downside of his boom-or-bust profile.

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NegativeRole2:48

With David Montgomery departed and Isaiah Pacheco joining as understudy, Gibbs has become the clear choice inside the opponent's five-yard line by season's end of 2025. However, Harris cannot promise that will hold for the entire upcoming season, noting that Pacheco was routinely pulled for Kareem Hunt near the end zone in Kansas City, suggesting Gibbs may get first try at goal-line work but with some uncertainty.

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PositiveValue24:30

The source ranks Gibbs significantly higher than Monique Guy in draft order (Swift at 23, Monique Guy at 37), indicating strong confidence in Gibbs' fantasy value relative to the Lions' other running back options; the source notes this gap is unlikely to change barring injury.

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PositiveProjection52:00

With David Montgomery gone, Gibbs becomes a no-doubt top-two running back in fantasy. The source has him ranked at 1 among running backs, though it is totally understandable to have Bajan at 1. There are no people ranking Gibbs lower than three or four among running backs unless they are doing the wide receiver thing.

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Jameson Williams

NegativeBreakout53:48

The source is significantly higher on Jameson Williams than before, ranking him 16th in standard and 18th in PPR (compared to 25th on the other ranker's list). His usage became much more interesting in the second half of last year when Dan Campbell took over play calling; he was able to run dig routes and showed promise beyond just deep balls. He is a primary speed threat who can now do other things too. The source watched all 65 of his catches and found the best part was that it wasn't just deep balls in the second half. However, there is a risk that his improvement was strictly a Sam Laporta thing, and he could be a Laporta merchant.

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Jonathan Taylor

NegativeProjection3:30

Harris notes that Taylor, along with Bijan Robinson and other explosive backs, has a greater claim than Gibbs to goal-line touchdown work, though Gibbs remains Harris's number one overall running back due to superior explosiveness and massive-play generation.

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Jonathon Brooks

PositiveRole29:08

Coach Dave Canales said Brooks could be a starter, which the source treats as meaningful coach speak that changes the equation for his fantasy outlook. The source tried to get ahead of the hype before it took place, and notes that Brooks has college hype and is being drafted with real expectations, unlike some other backup running back prospects.

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Jordan Addison

NegativeRole43:00

Addison has a specific skill set as a speed guy and polished route runner; the source ranks him higher than Juwan Jennings barring injury because he has the ability to make one big play that changes the box score, whereas Jennings is more of a reliable short-yardage option. Training camp is unlikely to meaningfully change receiver ranks given the Addison-Jennings dynamic.

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Jordan Mason

NegativeRole46:00

Mason is ranked 41st among running backs and is not a pass catcher or pass pro player; he doesn't play on third down. His efficiency rushing is slightly lower than the prior year but still more efficient than Aaron Jones. He is a passenger in fantasy and needs a good environment to become a fantasy starter, but if the Vikings offense turns around, Mason is the one most likely to benefit given his goal-line role and ability to handle big workloads.

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Josh Jacobs

NegativeInjury26:28

Josh Jacobs faces legal uncertainty that could impact his 2025 fantasy value; assault charges have not yet been filed but remain a possibility, and if charges are filed before Labor Day, his draft value will drop further due to increased suspension risk; there is also a scenario where suspension comes in 2027 and does not affect the 2025 season, but the uncertainty looms over his current draft price.

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NegativeBust27:30

Jacobs faces suspension risk that will loom over his draft value; the source notes this uncertainty is a major concern despite Jacobs being a really good player who could provide value if the suspension doesn't materialize. The Packers could also trade for another legitimate running back (James Conner or Alvin Kamara mentioned as examples) if bad news emerges about Jacobs, which would completely change the equation for his fantasy outlook.

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Justin Jefferson

PositiveProjection45:30

The source is willing to make a leap of faith that Justin Jefferson can still be a second-round pick despite the Vikings' offensive struggles last year, suggesting confidence in his ability to bounce back with a new quarterback and improved offensive line.

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Kyren Williams

NegativeRole23:00

The source questions whether Blake Corum will take over more of the workload from Kyron Williams in the Rams backfield, but expresses skepticism that training camp will provide clarity on this question, suggesting the backfield roles will remain relatively stable barring injury.

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Luther Burden

NegativeValue6:30

Erickson ranks Burden at 18 among wide receivers, slightly ahead of Odunze at 24. Harris ranks Burden at 25, below Erickson's ranking. Harris cautions against the 'Ben Johnson mapping' narrative where analysts try to project Burden as the Bears' equivalent to Amon Ra St. Brown, noting that nobody is as talented as Amon Ra and that camp highlights alone cannot determine such outcomes. Harris will not adjust his rank based on camp hype unless material changes occur.

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MarShawn Lloyd

NegativeRole27:30

Marshawn Lloyd has attended the hamstring institute during the offseason, addressing a potential injury concern; the source views this as a positive step that should have been taken earlier in his career, suggesting Lloyd is taking proactive measures to improve his durability and availability for the Packers.

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NegativeRole28:30

The source characterizes Marshawn Lloyd as a poor man's Jonathan Brooks, meaning Lloyd has less college hype and is not being drafted the same way as Brooks. The source notes that fantasy value for Lloyd is banking on the idea of him as a prospect rather than anything he's done as a professional, and there's uncertainty about his durability given hamstring issues and physical concerns similar to those affecting other receivers.

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Matthew Golden

NegativeBust31:40

The source is skeptical of Matthew Golden as a training camp riser despite the Packers' 79-year drought without a first-round WR. Golden looked awful last year, with Aaron Rodgers throwing some of his worst passes to him, including an underthrown deep ball in a Thursday night game. The source explicitly rejects the bait of raising his rank based on beat guy hype and will not draft him above round 14 as a total flyer, rating him 54th among wide receivers.

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Rome Odunze

NegativeInjury6:30

Odunze's recent comment about his foot being his 'new normal' has created concern among fantasy analysts. Harris notes this is the first time Odunze has made such a statement about his foot, and while Harris assumes he is fine, the quote could indicate lingering issues. Harris will monitor whether Odunze practices every day and participates fully in joint practices; if he sits out more reps than other receivers, Harris will become concerned. Odunze has downward mobility if he misses practice time.

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NegativeValue7:12

Harris ranks Odunze at 21 among wide receivers heading into camp, while Erickson has him at 24. Harris is slightly higher on Odunze than Erickson, and Erickson indicates he has Luther Burden ahead of Odunze at 18 and 30 respectively. Harris will adjust Odunze upward if he participates fully in training camp and joint practices without missing time.

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PositiveValue21:06

Rome Odunze's draft range is wide but has significant upside potential; currently ranked around 31st among receivers, he could move up substantially into the Zay Flowers and Lad McConkey range, though the source notes the range spans from Terrell McMillan to Khalil Shakir (approximately 45 players), meaning he could also drop. The source is monitoring how high he can climb in receiver rankings.

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Sam LaPorta

NegativeInjury59:00

Laporta did not have a serious injury, although as someone with ruptured discs in his back, it is not unserious. He is apparently in better shape now. The source notes that there was a before-and-after difference when the Lions lost him last year; his absence changed their offense considerably. Pay extra attention to Laporta's health in August. There is a risk that Jameson Williams' improvement in the second half was due to Laporta's absence rather than Dan Campbell's play-calling changes.

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Saquon Barkley

NegativeProjection3:30

Harris lists Barkley among the explosive running backs (alongside Bijan Robinson, Jonathan Taylor, Christian McCaffrey, and Dalvin Cook) but notes that none of them match Gibbs' level of explosiveness and massive-play generation.

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Stefon Diggs

NegativeDepth Chart2:00

Harris notes that as of his recording, Diggs does not have a team. Harris was waiting to write Diggs' profile in the 2026 Harris Football Player Profile Almanac until his team situation was resolved, but could wait no longer and wrote the profile without a team assignment. Harris acknowledges that Diggs' team situation will change between now and Labor Day weekend.

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Tucker Kraft

NegativeInjury33:54

Tucker Kraft is the source's tight end three ranking after producing at a high level before his injury. He has no upward mobility at the position and only downward mobility if he remains unavailable. The source is not panicked about his absence from early camp, noting the team indicated this is a second-half camp situation. He will be monitored through mid-August ADP time, with a potential rank drop if he remains unavailable.

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Full transcript

Episode Transcript

782
0:00It's the Harris Fantasy Football Podcast with your host, Christopher Harris.
0:03Hey everybody, welcome in. My name is Chris. This is a show about sports.
0:08Hello there everybody. Thank you so much for listening to this little podcast that could.
0:13It's Tuesday, July 28th, Almanac Day, six days away.
0:16The 2026 Harris Football Player Profile Almanac comes out this coming Monday.
0:19It's a PDF. It is, I think, 299 pages exactly.
0:23It's 232 players profiled. I've been working on it basically every day since the beginning of May.
0:28I think I can say it's done. I'm not going to work on it today.
0:33That's my resolution for you today. We've got all the new art in there.
0:37I just wrote the very last profile from scratch.
0:40That was Stefan Diggs, who as of my recording this does not have a team.
0:45I was waiting before I wrote his profile, but I could wait no longer.
0:49And of course, that's going to change and many, many things are going to change between now and Labor Day weekend, which
0:56is why right before Labor Day weekend, if you purchase the Almanac now, you'll get a complete update, a second version with
1:03changed ranks and with profiles rewritten where appropriate. Many, many profiles will have like crossouts and rejiggerings and stuff like that.
1:10The Almanac has research projects. It's got cousin Josh weighing in on players.
1:14It's got every ounce I could squeeze out of watching film on a couple hundred players.
1:19Plus, it's got ranks that you won't find at harrisfootball.com.
1:22Dynasty ranks, super flex ranks. They're in the back of the book as well.
1:27And let me read you a profile, shall I?
1:30We're talking NFC North on the show today. How about my number one overall pick in most formats?
1:35Let's talk about the profile of one Mr. Jameer Gibbs.
1:38It goes something like this. How can you tell Gen Z will turn out okay?
1:43We could point to political polling, tolerance activism, or the blessed rejection of Marvel movies.
1:48But I'll take one hilarious data point. They hate the hell out of AI.
1:52This spring, a bunch of wealthy boomers got up in front of graduating classes at colleges and high schools and mirthlessly read
1:59the same scripts they used to brainwash each other.
2:02About how young people must embrace artificial intelligence or be left behind.
2:06So shielded are these elderly losers from what people actually think of the plagiarism machine.
2:11They were universally shocked to receive lusty booze. We self-evidently live under a cacistocracy where society is run by the worst, least qualified, most unscrupulous people.
2:19And these people are accustomed to their bubbles in which their bullcrap is never questioned.
2:24Meanwhile, Gen Z only knows a world in which endless cycles of Silicon Valley hype express contempt for humanity and circumstantial evidence
2:31seems to indicate these young people hate it. Good for you kids.
2:35When all you have is the occasional ability to humiliate these feckless masters of the universe, please keep doing it.
2:41I'm not sure about Jameer Gibbs' stance on AI, but I do find him to be a good stand-in for his generation.
2:48He's audacious and talented, headstrong and possibly lacking a little something in the toughness department.
2:53Nobody has the stop-foot-go-foot like Gibbs. His cutback ability is historically elite.
2:57Watch Week 12 against the Giants and you'll see three separate home runs, including the overtime game winner, in which Gibbs made
3:04a move in the backfield, then just exploded. He had six runs of 40-plus yards, most in the league.
3:10The trade-off for this combustibility is that Gibbs does hunt big plays to an uncomfortable degree.
3:15And in 2025, as the Lions' offense writ large became less consistent, we got a few stinker stat lines.
3:21Gibbs got over 97 scrimmage yards in half his games last year, but he failed to reach 70 yards six times and
3:28was mostly a no-show in the fantasy playoffs. The big news for 26 is that David Montgomery is gone from Detroit with
3:35typewriter feet, Isaiah Pacheco, joining to be Gibbs' understudy.
3:38The Sonic and Knuckles thing was fun, but had run its course.
3:41The moment the Lions' O-line got banged up and mortal, Montgomery's pinball act grew less charming, and by season's end, Gibbs had
3:48become the clear choice inside an opponent's five. I can't promise that'll be the case for the entire upcoming season, but given
3:55that Pacheco was routinely pulled for Kareem freaking Hunt near the end zone, I tend to think Gibbs gets first try.
4:02But that's not why he's my number one running back.
4:05However much I'd like to argue that Gibbs is now a potential goal-line touchdown maker, bigger guys like Bajon Robinson and Jonathan
4:12Taylor have a greater claim to that work. No, the reason I'd take Gibbs ahead of everyone else is I find him
4:19just slightly more convincing as a weak winner. Fantasy football production is more spread out than ever.
4:24Everyone at every position can give you like 50 scrimmage yards.
4:28The truest differentiation comes in the form of massive plays.
4:31Bajon, Taylor, McCaffrey, Cook, Saquon, they're all explosive, but nobody is quite Gibbs.
4:35So that's how that goes. I, of course, know that I am also mentioning this new novel that I've got coming out on September 1.
4:43It's a summer where I'm trying to ask you to buy two things.
4:47That's a lot of things. I'm sorry. I apologize.
4:50Pound Foolish is my book. It's in the process of being rolled out as a pre-order.
4:55I think you can pre-order the e-book right now, the, you know, the read it on a digital reader.
5:01I don't think you can pre-order the audio book or the paperback just yet, but hopefully that's happening soon.
5:07You may or may not know that I am publishing this book myself.
5:11Cumulative Press. It's a joke, but it's not a joke.
5:15It's so hard. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm trying to make it happen all in time, and I'm going to do a tour.
5:23That'll all be announced real soon. But anyway, so I know some people don't have the luxury of buying any extra things.
5:30That is absolutely fine. Please don't feel like I am judging you or anything.
5:34I'm so happy to have you listening. If you're just able to listen, that's so fantastic.
5:39The podcast is about to switch back onto full-time mode.
5:43I'm really pumped about that. Next week, shows will be Monday through Friday.
5:47That goes all the way through the end of the season.
5:50And, you know, we're in the mode of talking about your fantasy draft and trying to figure out how we really feel,
5:57which players we're going to be after, and, you know, doing the best we can on our draft rooms.
6:03Our old favorite guests will all be back in the saddle again as we talk through the 2026 NFL fantasy draft season.
6:10It is all happening. It's all very fun. You can keep track of all of it at harrisfootball.com.
6:16Today's kickoff. Okay, on today's show, let's keep the fun rolling.
6:19We're on our seventh of eight shows in July.
6:22We're previewing training camps, some really good offenses in the NFC North.
6:26I wonder how many situations we should be flexible on and, you know, willing to change ranks over, depending on what happens,
6:33compared to letting the noise go in one ear and out the other.
6:37Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about the teams of the NFC North.
6:42That is, of course, the Bears, Packers, Vikings, and Lions.
6:45To help me with that will be Jeff Erickson from Rotowire joining the show.
6:49I think you'll have a great time listening. I'm very, very lucky to have you listening today.
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8:01Today's guest. His name's Jeff Erickson. Jeff Erickson. And he tries to listen to Jeff Erickson.
8:06You know his name. Stop saying the other name.
8:09Never, ever tell him that he's the other name except for last night.
8:13I was on a Zoom with our mutual friend, Nick, who has left Los Angeles, Jeff.
8:18And he said, make sure to say hello to Eric Jefferson.
8:21This is writer Nick, correct? Yeah, correct. Writer Nick.
8:24All right. Excellent. Well, please say hello back next time you Zoom with him.
8:29Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't know if we should.
8:32You're known now like so far and wide as Eric Jefferson because of your song.
8:37It just feels like maybe we should start snubbing people.
8:40You know, I do love it when I get a random, you're not Eric Jefferson.
8:45And I actually got that in person one time.
8:47That was beautiful. So your influence is far and wide.
8:51It really is. I mean, there's a power. There's calling you Eric Jefferson and there's nobody knows why they call it planting
8:58a flag on a player, but they don't realize that I, you know, we're old and I did it a long time ago.
9:05Other than that, that's it. That's the legacy. There you go.
9:08But no, of course not. We have a huge legacy to build today by discussing the teams of the NFC North.
9:15And that's, folks, what we call a segue. You can, of course, find out everything that Jeff does at rotowire.com.
9:21You can be a subscriber at Rotowire. That's a fun thing to be.
9:26I have a subscription there. It's lovely. And you can also find Jeff on all the socials, on Twitter, on Blue Sky.
9:32Just search his name. Jeff Erickson, not Eric Jefferson.
9:35So on Monday's podcast, which is a Yacht Club show and Paywall Andy, Andy Behrens was, of course, on with me as he always is.
9:43He did a list of five nonsense fantasy risers in August in which he nominated the names of five people who, you know, people talk about helium.
9:52Oh, these guys are going to get helium, but it's going to be based on nothing kind of thing.
9:58And I think like four of them are in this division.
10:01Yes. Yes. So that's the case. And in some cases, it's because this is going to be a fun division.
10:08I think it's also because Andy is a Bears fan and thus he is acutely aware of every single player in the NFC North.
10:15I think he's acutely aware of everybody. I think that's a good point.
10:19He is a very acutely aware man. Right. He was, he was, you know, maybe subconsciously thinking NFC North, but also I
10:26think just trying to figure out some names of dudes who he wasn't going to take the cheese on.
10:33And that's the mission of these July shows is to as much talk about news that we won't act on, news that
10:39we're not going to change ranks for and not engage in stupid social media stuff.
10:44And, you know, it's funny, like every, it's this meta conversation now.
10:48Tell me if you feel this pressure, Jeff, with your own football ranks where it's this meta conversation we're all having about wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
10:56I bet you there's going to be a bunch of nonsense that we're going to feel pressure to change our ranks on ha ha ha.
11:04And then the noise starts to get loud and people start to seem really serious about Matthew Golden or whatever.
11:11And, and there's a feeling of like FOMO. There's a feeling of like, I don't, you know, boy, I kind of thought
11:18I was going to get Matthew Golden. I might need to change my rank, even though nothing's materially changed.
11:24Like, I feel that I try not to act on it when I don't think it's based on a real thing.
11:30But do you feel that? Oh, of course I feel it.
11:34And then, you know, talking every day about these players, uh, you know, doing drafts.
11:39Uh, I know you're a notorious ADP ignorer or maybe not notorious is the right word.
11:44You're, you're a celebrated ADP ignorer. So that helps you a little bit, but you can, we track the changes and we
11:51hear about the changes and why is Quentin Johnson going 40 spots higher?
11:55You know, things like that. It, it, you know, yeah, I, I get all of that there and it's, it's a good thing.
12:02We're not doing an AFC West conversation because there's plenty of hype guys there.
12:06Uh, but yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It happens. And it's human nature.
12:10It's really human nature. You can't, it, you want to put the, the blinders on, you want to put the earmuffs on.
12:17It's just hard to do hard. It gets, it seeps through regardless.
12:21So it does. You're right. I don't get the ADP stuff until for a couple of weeks from now, you know, like
12:28a two, two, three, I can't remember maybe three, three weeks from now, like mid August is when I'll crack it open and do a show about it.
12:37And, and, but in the meantime, hopefully talk about just players that I like and the, the pressure that I, I remember
12:44having a Dave Kluge conversation, like the first year he started coming on the show where we both acknowledged, like there's pressure to not look like a dope.
12:53There's pressure to not stand out too much like, okay, yeah, I don't really believe in, I mean, picking on Matthew golden.
13:00He was one of Andy's nonsense fantasy risers like, okay, I don't really want Matthew golden, but I don't want to look
13:07like a jackass if he really pops. So I'm going to, I'm going to calibrate my rank of Matthew golden to be
13:14a little below ADP, but not as much as it was when I first started thinking about it because then nobody can really yell at me.
13:22And we like Dave and I were both like, yeah, that's real.
13:26Like you, you get yelled at a lot in this job and you feel dumb for giving bad advice in this job.
13:33And you don't, you don't want to have like any super rough edges.
13:37You want to sand them all down. And my, I mean, obviously at this point, I don't care about the rough edges.
13:44I don't care anymore. So I'm not, I don't think that way really anymore, but of course that's out there.
13:50And, you know, I would encourage anybody listening to just not like nobody knows what's going to happen.
13:56And so like, just stick to what you think might happen and who cares?
14:00You know, that's my thing is who cares? Yeah.
14:03And I, you got to get to that point, but if you're, especially if you're trying to establish a foothold in this
14:10beautiful community that we have here, it's even harder to do that there to avoid what our mutual friend, Scott Pianowski likes
14:17to call the pretzel logic where we just twist ourselves and, you know, like you said, just a little bit below ADP,
14:24but a little bit higher than where you had it at.
14:28Yeah. Like, but why, but why, you know, he's, he still can't do this.
14:32So yeah, I get it. Well, and we don't know one way or the other.
14:37And there is always a feeling of like, wow, I'm taking a real stand and I didn't mean to take a stand.
14:44I say that all the time. Like I had no intention of taking a stand for positive or negative on these players.
14:51And I don't really know what's going to happen.
14:54So can I, can I somehow look a little less stupid if it doesn't happen by just, you know, adjusting a little bit.
15:01I think that's how people win the contest. You know, they look at what the average is and they go, okay, I
15:08need to be just a little bit higher on that guy, a little bit lower on that guy.
15:14And I just don't think that really serves anybody.
15:17So whatever. Let's talk about players. We will and won't change our ranks on when we get to these training camps, which,
15:24you know, in many cases have already started, but not really in earnest.
15:28And let's face it, the things we really care about are those joint practices where teams start to reveal their hands and
15:35their plans just a little bit more. Let's start with Andy Behrens' Bears.
15:39He talked about a couple of players. One in particular, though, he, we didn't talk about as a nonsense riser was like
15:46maybe not a player per se, but Ben Johnson and the hype that is very specifically Ben Johnson's because people keep desperately
15:53trying to map Bears players onto Lions players still.
15:56Yeah. Like who's the Amon Ra? You know, oh, you know, does that camp highlight mean that Luther Burden is the Amon Ra in that offense?
16:04The answer is no, because Amon Ra's better than those guys.
16:07Nobody's Amon Ra. But there will be there will be much sharing of highlights and continued trying to map of players on.
16:14I think the wise fantasy drafter won't do that and won't assume anybody's going to turn into the wide receiver six or whatever from this offense.
16:23It could happen. Are you, you know, tell me where you are on the two main Bears receivers and tell me if they have any August mobility?
16:31So it's Roma Dunze is the guy I'm going to pay attention to.
16:35And it's not because of the Ben Johnson mapping.
16:38It's because of the quote unquote new normal phrase that Roma Dunze said about his foot.
16:43That's got a lot of people wigged out and pushing Luther Burden up.
16:47I want to see, is he, is he practicing every day?
16:51You know, and these joint practices is Roma Dunze going to be doing everything that's he's supposed to be doing.
16:57So let's face it. Last year was frustrating. It was a very frustrating year to deal with that, that stress fracture in
17:04his foot, the reporting on it, the, is he going to play?
17:08Is he not going to play? Is he, is he, is he fully recovered now?
17:13Now he's had the off season. I can do everything I want.
17:17He says, but it's also the new normal. What does that mean?
17:21That's the thing I'm going to be trying to watch.
17:24And I don't know if we're going to actually learn anything.
17:27I'm not sure, you know, if in season reporting isn't going to be on top of this, I don't know why training camp reporting would be much better.
17:36And that's one of the things that we're just going to have to try to deal with a little bit more, but that's something that could change.
17:45If I see like in joint practices, well, he's sitting out the more series than the other receivers.
17:50Well, yeah, I'm going to be concerned about that.
17:53So tell me specifically, I don't know if you have your ranks in front of you, if you don't like get them
18:00out while I'm vamping for you right now, tell me specifically where you have Odunze and burden among fantasy wide receivers and your ranks heading into camp.
18:09I'm pulling them up right now. And, uh, you know, the thing is I do have burden ahead of Odunze just a little bit.
18:16Um, I don't think it's a numbers. Numbers. Pulling them up.
18:20Hold please for this very important. I'm the one.
18:23Hold. Hold. Hold. I'm the one, I'm the one who yells at everybody at our poker game too.
18:28So, uh, I've got it as 24 and 30 respectively.
18:32Okay. I'm a little higher, but I have Odunze higher 21 and 25.
18:36Okay. So, um, but this is why this is a relevant thing to pay attention to because of course this is definitely going on the list.
18:44Roma don't say Luther burden is not going to list for me.
18:48I don't need to see camp highlights about how my God, if we would put a lion's helmet on him, that would have been Amon Ra.
18:56Like, I don't really think that's going to happen.
18:59I don't think you can determine that kind of thing in training camp.
19:03Maybe we'll get that news in September and I will have gotten them in the wrong order.
19:08But of course, yes. Easy to easy thing to pay attention to.
19:12Easy reason to lower Roma don say for me out of the higher spot between the two of them would be, um,
19:19you know, it's this one quote that I'm sure by this point, Roma don say, which is he had never given about his foot.
19:27There was no reason for him to say anything that way about his foot, but he just blurted it out because he's
19:34a young guy and he didn't realize that it would be held against him until the end of time.
19:40And it could turn out that he's just fine.
19:43I mean, my assumption, obviously based on this rank will be that he is just fine, that it doesn't really mean anything
19:50that, you know, his foot isn't three quarters of the way towards falling off.
19:54It's fixed. He's going to be fine. He'll be able to do himself.
19:58We won't really be able to know that for sure until we get to September, but I will stick to my guns on this ranking.
20:06If he's there for every practice, if we stop hearing about it, if he doesn't need to miss stuff.
20:12So I'll ask you, obviously I have Odunze downward mobility.
20:15If he starts missing things, do you have Odunze upward mobility?
20:19If he doesn't miss anything? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I do.
20:22Uh, you know, I still think the talent is there.
20:25I still think, uh, you know, I, I don't really care about the pedigree as much because they're known quantities to their team.
20:33I, you know, he's not going to care who got drafted, where is so much as it's just like, I think Odunze can play.
20:40Uh, I, uh, the other assumption, by the way, Chris, is that with the trade of DJ more, all these extra targets
20:47are going to flow to these two receivers and we can kind of count on them being, you know, heavier volume.
20:54And I'm not sure that's necessarily true. That's it.
20:57So in these joint practices, how often are they, uh, you know, lining up in 12?
21:02And even 13, they spent a third round pick on the tight end.
21:06Um, you know, is this, is this something that is Roush going to see the field even some more often than not?
21:13Cause I think one thing that we know under Ben Johnson is that the bears run the ball very well.
21:19He is an excellent run game designer and that's not going to change.
21:23So I don't know if we're going to get this, you know, bounty of extra targets that we're hoping for.
21:30Yeah, but it's the NFL. That doesn't matter. I mean, you're not, you're not sitting there worrying and you're not doing stat.
21:37I know you're not doing like detailed stat projections saying, Oh, that deep, that, uh, joint practice featured a little more Kalief Raymond than I'm comfortable with.
21:45I need to give him 10 more targets. Like, you know, sure.
21:49Sure. What you're saying is possible in theory, but you're not going to learn that in training camp.
21:55They're probably right about that. And you're probably not going to learn about the usage of Xavier and Thomas either.
22:01You know, is he anything more than a gadget guy?
22:04You know, uh, that that's cause I, I, I'm viewing him just as a gadget guy and not even the number three.
22:11Um, and, but yeah, that, that there, it really, but Rome is the big thing I'm watching the running backs.
22:18How high, how high can he go? How high can a dozen they go in your receiver list?
22:23If he's 31 now, uh, he has a go clean like 19.
22:27Okay. So he could go, he could really move up.
22:30All right. Well, that's something to watch. He'd go like in the Zay flowers, uh, lad McConkie range.
22:36I think he could go. I mean, it's the ranges.
22:39I keep saying this, but the range is like, I'll give you what the range is.
22:44The range is from, uh, Terrell McMillan to Khalil Shakir.
22:48Yeah, that's right. The range is 45 players or something, you know, just stupid.
22:52It's all the, and he could drop too, by the way, he could also still drop.
22:57He could go. Yeah. He could still drop them.
23:00Okay. So you start talking about the running backs.
23:03Um, I assume that we're going to learn anything about them.
23:06I mean, yeah. Just talk about that. Uh, well, it, I think people want to manifest.
23:11Is this the year that Monung guy takes more over for Swift?
23:15Just like, is this the year that Blake Corum takes over more for Kyron Williams?
23:20I don't think training camp is going to tell you that.
23:23Yeah, maybe, but how are you going to know?
23:26Right. Yeah. Barring an injury, of course, obviously, but that's a whole different story there.
23:31But, you know, Swift had his usage uses, uh, and so did Monung guy.
23:36Uh, there, I think they'll both get a lot of run.
23:39I think that's good. I don't think that's going to change a whole lot.
23:43I wish I had liked Monung guy's film more going back and watching it because I'm a notorious Deandre Swift.
23:50We call him zero around here. Um, cause he wore zero with the Eagles and he kind of was, um, he's, you
23:57know, I kind of feel like people want the other thing to happen still.
24:01I don't think there are tons of Monung guy enthusiasts out there, but I might be wrong.
24:07I don't have my ear to the ground on the bears backfield.
24:10Um, the larger point is if I had liked Monung guys film more, if I'd found him to be, I like him, I like him as a player.
24:19He's a, he's a tough, no nonsense run. You try to run you over.
24:24Not a huge guy, but like goes where the place is supposed to go.
24:28Physical dude just didn't really change directions. Well, didn't accelerate super well, you know, it isn't going to catch the ball too much.
24:36I don't think, um, don't, don't view him as any more of like a superstar than Deandre Swift's going to be a superstar.
24:43So I have pretty good distance between them and I, you know, I'm the last one who want to wants to do that.
24:50I have like Swift 23, Monung guy 37, but to your point, I don't know how barring injury, I don't know how that changes and can't.
24:58Right. And they didn't really, at least we're no longer going to have the, uh, the Roshon Johnson conversation.
25:04Uh, so at least we've got that going for us.
25:08We have, we know these, it's these two. We are sponsored again by wild grain.
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26:13Wildgrain.com slash Harris. We are back with Jeff Erickson.
26:16We are talking training camps of the teams of the NFC North.
26:20Let's talk about the Green Bay Packers. You know, very upsetting to everybody and especially this podcast who's made a lot of money on Josh Jacobs.
26:28The news that we need about Josh Jacobs is not going to come out of training camp, but it can potentially come in August.
26:36And it's obviously very important if we get word of charges actually being filed.
26:40Like I think the county officials did not file assault charges against Josh Jacobs when the alleged assault initially happened, but is
26:47holding out hope that, I don't know if it's hope, but holding out the possibility, the sort of Democles over Josh Jacobs.
26:54He's already dropped some because he has to, Jacobs does, because there looms the possibility of a suspension no matter what happens with the legal system.
27:03If he gets charged between now and Labor Day, he's going to drop lower because the possibility of a suspension increases even more.
27:10There is a world, of course, where the suspension only comes in 2027 and we don't have to worry about this year, but it's just, it's all gross.
27:19I guess maybe I'll ask you instead, cause you don't, you don't have any insight there, but does this cause you to
27:26pay more attention to what help happens with the other Packer running backs?
27:30Oh yeah. I've been, I compliment Marshawn Lloyd for a stay at the hamstring Institute.
27:35Um, you know, why he didn't do that earlier in his career.
27:38I don't know. It's like, there's a Reds player named Cabrian Hayes in baseball that when he was on the aisle, he did three days at driveline.
27:47Wish he had more time like an entire off season.
27:50Yeah. Okay. Um, that's nice. Uh, why, you know, why wasn't this a step addressed before?
27:55Maybe it's just the last thing. Like I know there's some comparison between him and, uh, you know, yeah, yeah.
28:02You know, the, the, the, I'm space. Oh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, his teammates, sorry.
28:07I'm just such a space cadet this morning, but Chris Brooks.
28:11No, no. Who also, we got news on him too.
28:14Christian Watson about the, you know, you know, how one leg slightly longer than the other.
28:19And that's why he's got all these hamstring issues and all that there, you know, there's a lot of that sort of
28:26noise going on with Marshawn Lloyd as well. We'll see about that.
28:30Uh, we just don't know. We just haven't seen him stay on for that long of a time.
28:36Ironically though, it is Brooks. That's on the non-football injury list right now.
28:40Not Lloyd, not, not Jacobs. It's Brooks. That's not practicing right now, but I will see that.
28:45I want to see Marshawn Lloyd is kind of like a poor man's Jonathan Brooks.
28:50Um, where like we're kind of banking on the idea of Chris, of Marshawn Lloyd and not really anything he's done as a professional.
28:57Yeah. Why is he the poor man's? Isn't he just the man's?
29:01Aren't they the same? I guess he went, he had less college hype.
29:05Nobody ever thought. He's not getting drafted the same way.
29:09I know you're not checking, but Jonathan Brooks has hype.
29:12Marshawn Lloyd does not. He was on Andy's list yesterday.
29:15So I do know that. I didn't know that until yesterday, but Andy said, yeah.
29:20I, Andy said, I tried to get out in front on Jonathan Brooks and talk about him on the show before the helium took place.
29:28And the helium has already taken place, which is there.
29:31Dave Canales said that Brooks could be a starter.
29:34So, I mean, you have coach speak. So that, that, that changes the equation.
29:38That's definitely real. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it, of course, this is definitely worth paying attention to.
29:43It is. It's going to go on the list of things to pay attention to.
29:48You know, there's a bunch of, there's Pierre Strong.
29:51There's a bunch of guys who knows, like this can go a bunch of different ways where it's all Jacobs and it's fine.
29:58And he's a really good player and we get value and he never gets suspended at all, but we're not going to know that.
30:06That's going to be looming over. The possibility is going to be looming over him when you draft him.
30:12No question. And then, hey, the Packers could realize something bad for him is coming down the pike and trade for James
30:19Connor or trade for Alvin Camaro or whatever. You know, like they, they could actually get another legitimate guy in there and that totally changes the equation.
30:27None of which we can know beforehand, but I, I'm a hundred percent on board with paying attention to what gets said day by day.
30:35Is there separation among the quote unquote other guys?
30:38Is it actionable if I'm doing a draft on August 20th?
30:42It's hard to say, but let's see because it's possible because we might have news about Jacobs by then.
30:48So a hundred percent worth paying attention to an absolute complete ridiculous bummer.
30:52Or, you know, it's good object lesson in as much fun as you have talking about these players.
30:57You don't know them as people and who knows what happened.
31:01And like, I'm not trying to cast aspersions one way or the other, but like we do, we do develop what feel
31:08like personal attachments, but they're actually attachments to laundry.
31:11And like, we should just kind of realize that.
31:14Yep. A hundred percent agree. Um, I, I've used Matthew golden as my example of a potential, uh, training camp riser.
31:20I guess that's possible because I mean, Andy brought him up yesterday and his point was now you have three instead of
31:27having five, you know, you have wicks and dobs are gone.
31:31And the other two guys are not exactly between Jaden Reed and Christian Watson, not exactly pictures of health.
31:37Matthew golden. I don't know if you know this, but last year, somebody made it kind of a big deal about the
31:44fact that a hundred somebodies the Packers hadn't taken a first round round first round wide receiver in 79 years or something.
31:51So of course, Matthew golden is going to be a training camp riser.
31:55I said to Andy yesterday, there's absolutely no having watched what he did last year.
32:00There's no world in which I'm going to take that bait.
32:03I don't care how impressed the beat guys are.
32:06I'm not going to follow suit and raise my rank as everyone else maybe does.
32:11I don't know. I'll just miss out on him.
32:14Cause he looked awful. Yeah, he did. I think that love had some of his worst throws with him too.
32:20I remember early on, um, there is a, uh, woefully under thrown ball.
32:24The one time golden did get separation on a deep ball.
32:28So I, I think that was the Thursday night game.
32:31If I recall correctly, uh, very early in the season, but you're right.
32:35Um, I'm not in on the, the increase, the earlier price on golden, even though I've, I may have even uttered the
32:42phrase narrower tree at some point in time. Uh, it is, and it is.
32:46And I think we still have question marks at both tight ends, by the way, both tight ends are currently on the
32:53pop list, not just craft who, you know, has been since March saying he's going to be ready for week one.
33:00But when, what player never said, you know, if a player doesn't say that that's when you're worried, but you don't automatically take it as gospel either.
33:09If that, if that is going to be there, but Musgrave popped up on the pop list to front with an OTA injury.
33:16And they've been really kind of circumspect about the nature of that injury.
33:20So I kind of want to watch to see what happens there too.
33:24So I'll just ask you again on golden. I'm 54 among wide receivers.
33:28I'm just not taking Matthew golden. If he goes any higher than that, I can see him as a, as a 14th
33:35round pick, just a total flyer, but anything more than that, I'm not going to pay it.
33:41Where are you on golden? I am putting, I am putting, I just pulled up wide receivers and I am at 50.
33:48So I'm right there with you. Yeah. So we're not, we're not going to take the bait now craft matters.
33:54That's a big story. It's just, I don't think it needs the long conversation.
33:58He's my tight end three right now because he was pretty great in that window when he started producing like crazy before he got hurt.
34:06But he has no, I mean, go without saying he has no upward mobility at tight end three.
34:12He's got nothing but downward mobility. I'm not panicked over not being available the first week in camp.
34:18And they've said, this is probably more a second half of camp kind of thing.
34:23I'm going to, sure. I'm going to leave him there until ADP time, mid August.
34:27And if he's still not doing anything, he has to come down.
34:31Obviously worth paying attention to, but just sort of goes without saying.
34:35Do you have different thoughts on craft? I just, I just assume that first half of the season will be a little compromised.
34:42Then he'll be, you know, hopefully he's healed by the second half and doing really Tucker craft things, which are really make
34:49this Packers offense a lot more dynamic. So, but I would take Loveland and Warren over craft basically because of this.
34:56Okay. You have them five. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think that's not this defensive position.
35:01I wouldn't imagine. I mean, I'm not a tight end early drafter anyway, but you know, if I'm getting, you know, whatever
35:08the ninth tight end off the board and he happens to be my third ranked guy.
35:13Great. If he goes earlier than I'm willing to take a tight end, I don't care.
35:18I'm going to wait and take a tight end later.
35:21Vikings. Yeah. They were, you know, I would love to say there were tons of answers coming in this, in this training
35:28camp because the Vikings, you can make an argument.
35:31They were the biggest fantasy disaster in the entire NFL last year.
35:35Is that a, I mean, you can come up with others, but we expected a lot.
35:40We thought, oh, sure. JJ McCarthy will be fine.
35:43He was this just in. I'm touching my fictional earpiece.
35:46He was not just fine. Um, so this starts with Calamari as we call him, Kyler Murray, uh, taking over.
35:52We, we presume at quarterback. Do you, do you consider this an actual quarterback battle?
35:57No, I do not. Uh, I know there's been some comments about it being a battle, uh, this week, but no, I don't, I don't.
36:05Although I, I think there's a, we should note an incongruence because we needed, you know, we, we look at the Arizona
36:12Cardinals and McBride and Marvin Harrison Jr. For the 12 seconds that he stayed healthy after Murray lost his job, both got unlocked.
36:19Michael Wilson broke out. All we needed was a quarterback that could see the field and throw these certain throws.
36:25So Kyler Murray is supposed to be a rescue over JJ McCarthy because what now, you know, you know, that there's a real problem there.
36:33I think he's better than McCarthy, but I don't know if he's necessarily a panacea to restore all the value back to
36:40Justin Jefferson, all the, uh, and especially to Jordan Addison.
36:44I'm a little worried about that still. Yeah, of course.
36:47That's, that's all you should be worried about with the Vikings.
36:50I just don't know. You can get an answer in training camp.
36:54No, I, is he going to grow three inches?
36:57I don't think so. Um, but yeah, I mean, short guys can sometimes see the field.
37:02Russell Wilson was pretty good in his prime. I don't, I'm not going to blame the height on, on this problem.
37:09It is a problem. I'm with you that we're, nobody's ranking these Vikings as though it was last year.
37:15I don't think, I mean, I guess people might be with Jefferson just because he's such a good player that they're like,
37:22the Vikings have spent an entire winter trying to figure out how to make this never happen again.
37:27And by hook or by crook, no matter what they need to do, they're going to take care of their one guy.
37:34Everybody else might suffer, but they're going to take, and maybe, maybe that's true.
37:39And I, I'm not ranking Jefferson as a first round pick.
37:42I'm putting, he's wide receiver seven for me. So he's a second round pick.
37:47My guess is that's where he goes. Right. Yeah.
37:50Yeah. Jefferson's go into the first beginning of the second barring like some cataclysmic news coming out of camp.
37:56That Murray looks terrible too. The other factor here, Chris is the offensive line was a big mess last year.
38:02It's supposed to be a strength. And it wasn't Darisaw was hurt in and out of the lineup almost all season long.
38:09Uh, you know, they, they, they lost, you know, you know, you look at, at the center position there.
38:15Um, and Ryan Kelly was, you know, dealing with concussions.
38:18He's since retired, you know, anytime a team loses a center mid season, bad things happen.
38:23Uh, you, you see this all the time. And it's, it's one of the, you know, I think we focus a lot
38:30on left tackle and it is, uh, you know, and justifiably, but center is ridiculously important too.
38:36And they didn't have any stability there, uh, last year a number of times as well.
38:41I think this is going to be something I'm just going to watch to see like, is Christian Darisaw doing everything in camp?
38:48You know, cause last year it was just assumed he was going to be fine and going back to all pro status.
38:55And that was not the case. So if Christian Darisaw is not doing everything in training camp, tell me the rank adjustment that you make.
39:03I probably lower Jefferson to mid second round. Um, and that probably means I don't get them.
39:08And it means that I am already too low on the, the running backs anyhow.
39:13Uh, you know, it's not like any, I haven't heard too many partisans for Aaron Jones, uh, Jordan Mason.
39:19I have obviously for the third running back we have DeMond Clayborne.
39:23I know that's on Andy's list as well. Uh, but you know, and I, I understand why, cause we're looking for something
39:30new, but at the same time, I, I, it might steer me away from even using a lottery ticket on that later on.
39:37I can't draw straight lines with offensive lines like that.
39:40I, you know, we're going to have Ross Tucker on next week to do his typical, my sacrifice of Ross Tucker every
39:47year that I don't think he knows is a sacrifice, but, um, you know, he comes on and says, these are the
39:54offensive lines I think are going to be the best.
39:58And these are the ones I think are going to be the worst.
40:02And he sometimes gets them right. He's better than I am.
40:05Of course. It's just, he's also not right because it's just really hard to know.
40:10Right. And so it's really hard for me to, it's really hard to know what, what truths are out there health wise too.
40:17And it's so important. And sometimes it just changes and then, you know, it changes in season and we, there's nothing you can do about that.
40:26Yeah. So I don't know that those things are going to change my ranks.
40:30Um, Jefferson for me is like 17 overall standard.
40:33Uh, but, but 13 PPR. So I see where people are coming from.
40:37He's the one guy. I'm just like, this is maybe the best overall player in the NFL.
40:42It stinks that he has situation. I'm trying to make situation problems matter as little as possible when it comes to one
40:49of the truly great players in the league, but going through the process of having him last year, you just have to
40:56be try to temper your enthusiasm just a little bit.
41:00Um, and it got worse. That's the thing. It, it, you know, like, Oh, you know, McCarthy's going to get a little bit better.
41:07He never got better. That was the problem. It's just this, the whole season got worse and worse for Jefferson as the season progressed.
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41:59But it works for me. And you have no risk to try it because if you find that it doesn't work for you, they will refund you.
42:07No questions asked. Show me a better deal. August, almost here.
42:11Fantasy drafts, almost here. Can't recommend it enough. We are back with Eric Jefferson.
42:15Oops. I mean, Jeff Erickson. And if you knew the number of times that we sing him that song at our poker
42:22game, you would know a lot of times because we definitely sing him that song a lot.
42:28We're still talking about the Vikings, Jeff. And we really only kind of said, and I agree, you said this, I agree,
42:35that a year after we were drafting a lot of Vikings, this year there's no Vikings that will be drafted to be fantasy starters.
42:42I presume, except for Justin Jefferson, about whom we spoke before the break.
42:47So now you're in the territory of a hundred players who people will say, oh, just take him as a backup.
42:53He can't screw up your team too bad. Yeah, that's great.
42:57You're saying that about everybody on every team. I don't know who to take.
43:01I would love to be a Jordan Addison enthusiast.
43:04He was a flag player last year when I didn't think the Vikings were a total disaster.
43:09And Juwan Jennings now joins the Vikings and he's been a fantasy killer for a long time.
43:15He takes away stuff. He's a pro. I mean, opponents hate him, apparently.
43:19Can we learn enough about the Addison Jennings dynamic in training camp to make meaningful changes to your receiver ranks?
43:25I don't think so. I think Addison has a specific skill set.
43:29I think Jennings has a specific skill set. Maybe you hear, oh, Jennings is spending every practice with Kyler Murray afterward.
43:36Okay. No, I probably wouldn't change things. No, it's a nice little story.
43:40Yeah, exactly. They're playing more Call of Duty together.
43:43Okay, cheap shot. Okay, I had to take it.
43:46But no, I don't think there's a whole lot there that can change things.
43:50I think negative news would maybe change things more than positive news, if that makes sense.
43:55Like, you know. It does. What kind of negative news?
43:58You know, Addison's just not clicking with Murray. You know, they seem to be on the wrong page.
44:04He's underthrowing Addison all the time. You know, Addison's just doing cardio in this offense.
44:09You know, things like that. That might change things a little bit.
44:13But, again, I don't think it's like incintilla of movement there at most.
44:17I don't think you're going to get a lot of information here.
44:21And it could turn out one of a few different ways.
44:24They could both turn out useless for fantasy. One could, you know, elevate above the other.
44:29They do do different things. I mean, Addison is a speed guy and a very polished route guy.
44:35And Jennings is the opposite of a speed guy, but a very polished, I'm willing to do anything guy.
44:41And I'll get blasted to go over the middle and put my life on the line and take a huge hit to make a catch.
44:49And there's a role for both of those guys in this offense.
44:53I'm going to rank Addison higher, barring injury, just because I think one thing in fantasy we know, especially with the receivers
45:00these days, is that everybody's good for four catches for 40 yards in any given week.
45:05And I need the one who half the time has a chance to make the one big play that changes the box score.
45:12And I think whereas Jennings has done some high volume games in some situations where he's been, you know, valorous and scored
45:19some touchdowns, Addison's the one who can quote unquote go deep.
45:22100% agree. I think Jennings is the classic. If you need seven yards, I'll get you eight.
45:28If you need 10 yards, I'll get you eight.
45:31I think he's that guy. And, you know, sure-handed, tough over the middle.
45:35All those things that you said, every once in a while he's going to draw a team that has, does not have three corners that can cover.
45:43And when that happens, he's going to be, he'll be pretty good.
45:47Yeah. So then you actually mentioned the backfield. Now we're to the point where Aaron Jones, you know, really felt like he
45:54was probably going to be out of Minnesota. We talked about that a lot in the winter on the show.
46:01And then he took a substantial haircut to stay there for probably one more season.
46:05They still have Jordan Mason who got one heck of a chance last year.
46:10But, like, aren't we unfairly punishing Jordan Mason for not being able to, what's the right metaphor here?
46:15Uh, eat the poop sandwich. Like, I feel like, yes, the Vikings offense was completely broken and nothing worked.
46:21And the offensive line was a total disaster. And I recognize all that.
46:26And so they've, thank goodness they've changed quarterbacks and they've gotten some new offensive linemen.
46:30And I'm willing to make a leap of faith that Justin Jefferson can still be a second-round pick.
46:36But that Jordan Mason guy, screw that guy. He blew it last year.
46:40Like, that feels harsh. It does, considering he did exactly what he did the year before with the Niners.
46:46I mean, there's really no change in what he did there.
46:50Slightly less efficient rushing, but still way more efficient than Aaron Jones.
46:54He's not a pass catcher. He's not a pass pro guy.
46:57He doesn't play on third down. So, okay, that's not going to change.
47:01I don't, I think that's why the Niners were willing to move on from him at the same time.
47:07The same positives and negatives about Jordan Mason still exist.
47:10Nothing's changed. He is, so we should just, we're having two conversations at once here.
47:15On the one hand, I think we're both going to say that there's not too much news that's going to happen in August with the Vikings.
47:23That's going to change our assessments. I have Aaron Jones, 38, Jordan Mason, 41, and Damond Claiborne can go pound sand.
47:30I don't, not draft, we'll talk about him in a second.
47:34I don't imagine anything that's going to, barring one of them getting hurt, I don't imagine I'm going to fall in love with either guy.
47:42But I, kind of the second conversation I feel like we're having is Aaron Jones still looked really good, but just absolutely is not trustable health-wise.
47:50Something is going to happen. I'm just, how many years in a row do we need this?
47:55He's an older player. That's what's going to happen.
47:58And that's why he's low. And it feels weird to be really low on Jordan Mason by way of punishment saying, you got your chance last year.
48:07You didn't take it. I'm moving on to the flavor, the next flavor.
48:11That's Damond Claiborne. When we all acknowledge it was an untenable situation.
48:15Jordan Mason, absolutely a passenger when it comes to being a great fantasy player.
48:19He's not a great NFL player. He needs a good environment to turn into a fantasy, regular fantasy starter, somebody you're really excited to have.
48:27But that can happen. We're acknowledging that could happen for Jefferson.
48:30Jefferson would be more the bus driver than the bus passenger.
48:34But if it turns around again and suddenly we think positively about the Vikings again, I'm going to go out and say it.
48:41My rank doesn't reflect it, but Mason is the one I would trust to reflect that maybe most in that backfield.
48:48I agree. I agree. I'll say this. My brain resides in PPR land.
48:52That's my default thought process. And Mason gets hurt by that.
48:55Period. And that's not going to change. And that's also why people want to manifest Claiborne.
49:01Because they know that they want to pivot from Jones when he gets hurt.
49:05And they also think that, well, okay, Claiborne could be that guy.
49:09I don't think Claiborne could be the guy that gets 15 carries though, too.
49:13I just don't think that's possible either. So I think we're kind of stuck in this sort of thing there.
49:20There's going to be a week where Claiborne gets five catches for like 60 yards.
49:24And we're going to be all enamored with that.
49:27And then he's going to get one catch for two yards in the next week.
49:32Yeah. I'm not. I mean, I'll just square the circle on Mason to say, is he slow?
49:37He is. Is he like a pretty good power back?
49:41Is he 230 pounds? Like, if you're willing to place just a couple of side bets in a late round of a
49:48fantasy draft on Kevin O'Connell figuring it out, on Kyler Murray being better, on everything just not being so oppressive, I think Mason is your bet.
49:56Because he's the goal line guy. He's the touchdown maker.
49:59He's the grind him out at the end of a game dude.
50:03He's the one who could handle the big workloads without Aaron Jones.
50:07DeMond Claiborne, I don't know from a hole in the ground, nothing against the guy.
50:11All I know is he's teeny tiny. And now, you know, it's the curse of Achan.
50:16Everyone is coming into the league at that size.
50:19Everyone goes, well, I know traditionally it doesn't work, but there's this one guy.
50:24It might just work for us. Exactly. It might just work for us.
50:28I'm not going to buy any camp hype on DeMond Claiborne.
50:31He made Andy's list of nonsense August risers. I feel like that's exactly right.
50:36I gave this list on yesterday's show, but I'll do it again.
50:40I quickly scrolled in the almanac to DeMond Claiborne.
50:42I did write him in a profile. He's number 75.
50:46The comp I gave him was Brashard Smith. Remember, we were doing the exact same thing with Brashard Smith last year.
50:52I mean, fast guy, converted wide receiver. Sure, Andy Reid might use him as a fun...
50:57No, no, he didn't. The list of guys who fit Claiborne's just size.
51:025'10", 188. Dre Archer, Chris Rainey, Naheem Hines, Leon Washington, Garrett Wolfe, Chad Morton.
51:06I mean, I remember the hype for all those guys to say, well, they're really fast.
51:11And they're kind of just wide receivers. And they're going to be in the slot every play.
51:16And so there's 50 catches there for them. And it just doesn't happen.
51:21And A-Chan, if anything, has proven that the reason A-Chan became A-Chan is because he never fell into that bucket of like,
51:28well, he's just a really fast receiver. No, they made him to a feature back.
51:32And that's crazy. And he's amazing for being able to do it.
51:36But unless DeMond Claiborne becomes a feature back, he's not going to be useful for fantasy.
51:41Yeah, I'd agree. Not much more to add to that there.
51:45Hey, he's picking up pass pro in training camp.
51:48Okay, great. Trivian Henderson was too. And we know how that worked out in the regular season.
51:53That's a great point. I'm sorry to have ranted about Claiborne.
51:56I had a whole day to rev up because Andy and I talked about him yesterday.
52:02And Andy agreed. It's not like Andy and I were 100.
52:05Andy brought him up to say, this is the kind of player who is going to wind up getting taken in the
52:1210th round by the time we get to late August.
52:15Because there's going to be no news about Aaron Jones.
52:18There's going to be no news about Jordan Mason.
52:21And everyone's going to be like, well, there's this other guy.
52:25And I hate those first two guys. So sure, with the 100th overall pick, I'm taking DeBond Claiborne.
52:30We're not going to do that. One more team.
52:33And it's crazy that they're the last team we're talking about.
52:37I'm taking them in order of finish from last year.
52:40And as it turned out, the Lions actually did finish last in that division.
52:44I read Jameer Gibbs' profile off the top of the show.
52:48He now, obviously, with no David Montgomery, he becomes, that is to say, Gibbs, a no doubt.
52:53I mean, you'd say top two, right? I have him at one.
52:57It's totally understandable to have Bajan at one. And are there going to be people out there who have Gibbs any lower?
53:04Unless they're doing the wide receiver thing, which we're not going to talk about those people.
53:09Are there people out there who are going, Jameer Gibbs should be three or four or five among running backs?
53:16No, there are not. There might be the random McCaffrey partisan.
53:19He could be the 1.1. He could also. Yeah.
53:22And that is definitely true. But I'm scared to draft McCaffrey.
53:25But this isn't about McCaffrey. It's about the Lions.
53:28So, yeah. Top two. Yes, let's go. He is top two.
53:32Amon Roth going to be a first round pick.
53:35I don't feel like. I mean, we can talk about Jamison Williams a little bit.
53:39But it's funny how my perspective on wide receivers have changed so much.
53:43I don't know that Camp is going to tell us anything about Jamison Williams.
53:48But we can have kind of a beyond Camp conversation about him if you're interested in it.
53:53Like, I thought his usage got much more interesting in the second half of last year when Dan Campbell took over play calling.
54:01And it felt like the promise that we've been given all this time about how this guy does know how to run a dig route.
54:09You've just never seen it before. Suddenly he was able to run a dig route.
54:13That was great. He's still a primary speed threat.
54:16And I have the little part of my brain that always wants to call them Deshaun Jackson and reject them.
54:23Because, cool, their overall fantasy point totals look good.
54:25But it's only useful four times a year. And the rest of the time you're just chasing the useful week and they do nothing.
54:33And if that's what a modern day player is, I just don't want a part of that.
54:38But with wide receiver as spread out as it's ever been and no sign of it stopping, that guy is starting to get more valuable.
54:46Plus, Jamison Williams can also now do maybe some other things too.
54:50I am way more interested in drafting him this year than ever before.
54:54I am too. I think that I'm curious to see what a Drew Petzig offense is going to be a little bit there.
55:02Clearly, the John Morton offense was something that needed changing there.
55:05And I'm acutely aware of the mercurial nature of Williams last year.
55:09Two games, complete zeros, just zero on the line there.
55:12And one of those games, the Tampa Bay game, only 29 routes run, no targets even in that game.
55:18That was wild to see. Yeah, you need a little bit more of that.
55:23And yes, the second half was far better about that.
55:26And that's kind of washed away the bitter memories of the middle part of the season there for us.
55:32But again, like you said, training camp's not going to change that that much.
55:36I don't think it's going to change it for...
55:39Go ahead. Sorry, go ahead. No, you go ahead.
55:42I don't think it's going to change things for Isaac Tesla either.
55:46I think... Yeah. Okay, great. Khalif Raymond's gone. Okay, noted.
55:49Let's move on. Yeah. Yeah, Tesla made Andy's list too.
55:52He had so many NFC North guys on that list.
55:55But the nonsense riser, the based on... If it's an injury, great.
55:59I'm going to care what Isaac Tesla does, but otherwise...
56:02And I'll take... Like, I was impressed by the very limited film.
56:06It's the kind of player that makes sense to take a 14th round pick on to just see what if, what if
56:13the whole Apple card has been changed? Your point is about Drew Petsig is exactly right.
56:18Like, cool. I'm very interested in what that offense means too, but I'm not going to get that answer from preseason games.
56:25I'm not going to get that... From joint practices, simply not going to happen.
56:30So yeah. Where do you have Jameson Williams on your receiver rank?
56:33I hope you didn't close the file again. I was on the running backs.
56:38Just have to move over to the... Sorry. ...receivers.
56:41And they've got him at 25. 25. So I have him at 16 standard, 18 PPR.
56:46Again, I don't look at ADP, and maybe you're extremely low on him, or maybe I'm extremely high on him.
56:52I'm surprised to feel this way. Again, like, it's that thing we talked about off the top where you go, oh, I didn't mean to take a stand.
57:01Yeah. I think he's in a bucket there where the differences are pretty small though too.
57:06So... The bucket is 50 guys is the problem.
57:09Yeah. Yeah. I agree. We're not going to have a big fight over like Emeka Abuka or Jamison.
57:15Williams, who are between five and ten spots different on my receiver list, but I don't know.
57:20They're all really good players who have great opportunities and interesting systems, and you're kind of just taking your choice.
57:26And maybe I'm finding myself in my old age leaning a little toward the guy who can do the 180-yard play just
57:33a little more than I used to because it's at least a slight distinguisher from...
57:38I mean, Emeka Abuka did zero games too. You know, they all do.
57:42That's because they all play so many damn receivers that it's really tough.
57:46So, I don't know. I am higher on Abuka for what it's worth.
57:51Just... Yeah. But I understand why. A lot of conversation.
57:54But yeah. Sure. There are some people that are really high on Abuka.
57:58That is some... Doing early drafts, I've seen a little bit of that noise.
58:02So, that's another conversation for another day. No, but it's interesting.
58:06And of course, you know, it just keeps worth perennially mentioning there is no ADP.
58:11There's no one ADP anymore. There used to be.
58:13There just isn't. It depends on where you play.
58:16Absolutely. Because the default ranks... The default ranks on your game determine...
58:20Like, the thing that got determined when... You know, like in April or in May or something at ESPN where I used
58:27to be in that meeting, you know, that determines default ranks.
58:31And default ranks don't change as much as they should.
58:34And so, the next name that comes up for...
58:37You know, this is who was highest on the default rank list.
58:40That guy's ADP gets higher on that platform. It just does.
58:44And so, like, it's tough. That's why it doesn't matter that much.
58:48That's why I don't care about ADP that much.
58:51I sort of just want to have what I think.
58:54You know, I'd sort of want to just say what I think.
58:58And apparently, Jeff, it turns out I'm a massive fan of Jameson Williams.
59:02Huge. Huge. Massive. I know. And you've been pounding the table all summer long for it.
59:07I saw it. I'm loose guy. The pounding just began right now.
59:11Nobody... Can you hear that? Like, this segment is...
59:13It's Don breaking over Marblehead. Suddenly, Harris realized that he's massively into Jameson Williams.
59:18We talked about Tucker Craft and paying attention to that health situation.
59:22Sam Laporta didn't have a serious injury. Although, as somebody who has ruptured discs in his back, it's not unserious.
59:28But he apparently is in better shape. I think, once again, whatever you think of Laporta, August isn't going to change it.
59:35But he's someone else that... We're paying attention to everybody's health, but he qualifies as someone.
59:40Let's pay a little extra attention. That was my one note, actually, was pay attention to Laporta's health.
59:46Because I think there was a before and after difference when they lost him.
59:50There wasn't much behind him. And it changed their offense considerably, I thought.
59:54Yeah, and if you want to make an argument that it wasn't Dan Campbell play-calling that changed Jameson Williams' fate, that it
60:01was rather no Sam Laporta, that might make me take back the pounding of the table.
60:06I might just be wrong. Just gently tap the table every once in a while instead.
60:11Too many mouths to feed. Too many mouths to feed.
60:15I don't know if there's anything else. The Lions really are one of those camps that kind of is what it is.
60:22I don't know how you're going to really come to massive changes.
60:25Other than an injury to Jameson Williams, I'm asking myself right now, is there a way for me to...
60:31Let me ask you this question. You rank for baseball.
60:35I don't. And then, obviously, you great ranker for football, too.
60:38That experience that I just had in real time, people heard on the podcast, finding out that you're high on a player
60:45you never thought you were high on before. That you were always low on.
60:50I've had Jameson Williams as a bust before on the show.
60:53When you find that out, whenever that is, that you're higher on somebody than the market that you never thought you would be, that's the feeling, right?
61:02You go, oh, I could probably lower him a little bit and look a little less like a docious.
61:08Right. There you go. That's the thing we were talking about at the top of the show.
61:13A hundred percent. It's the opposite direction. What it should do is make you dive into the player a little bit more.
61:20And say, okay, why? Why do I have him here?
61:23And for baseball, I'll tell you, it's even harder because I'll do a set of projections.
61:28And I do the player's projection independent of his rank.
61:32And then I'd add the formula, which uses the projections to help me at the ranks.
61:37Like, oh, he's 40 spots higher than I thought he'd be.
61:40Oh, okay. There's a lot more players in baseball.
61:43And there's, you know, it's a different layer of dynamics too, with the Roto style scoring and things of that nature.
61:50Like, oh, I don't, you know, I don't want that, but maybe this is telling me I need to take more of him this year.
61:58And that works sometimes. And then there's other times it's like, oh, Jeff, you're just a big dummy and you just had it wrong.
62:05You just didn't make, yeah, you gave him 12 wins instead of nine.
62:09And that, that those three wins matter. But, you know, that, that's, that's a whole different conversation.
62:15But still, yeah, it forces you to kind of make that decision.
62:18Like, if you're abnormally high or abnormally low. Okay.
62:21But why? And let's find out why. Is there a bias in there?
62:25Is there a good reason? Or is it just that this is the number that it spat out?
62:31And it's like, oh, okay. Well, that maybe the number seems right to me.
62:36Okay. I'm going to get more of him this year.
62:39Well, I don't have any projections and I don't have an engine that spits out ranks.
62:44I don't have, it's just me saying, who would I take next?
62:48And I've done the work. Like nobody can accuse me not have in the middle of probably June.
62:53I sat there for part of a day and watched Jamison Williams.
62:57I watched all, everything he did is 65 catches.
63:00I think I watched them all. And like, I didn't come away thinking, my God, this guy's reinventing the position.
63:06He's unbelievable. He's amazing. But like the best part about what, what I remember seeing was it wasn't just deep balls in the second half of the year.
63:15And it could turn out that that was strictly a Laporta thing.
63:19He's a Laporta merchant, as they say. And I'm going to wind up being wrong.
63:24But yeah, I'm going to try to resist since I have done the work.
63:28I'm going to try to resist the temptation to do the thing that we all are tempted to do.
63:34I, I, as much as everybody like, Oh, I'd rather not look like that much of a donkey over this player.
63:41Maybe I'll stay above ADP, but just go a little lower safely.
63:45Like I'm trying to try not to do that.
63:48Um, all right. Well, fun conversation. Thank you for helping me work through these teams.
63:52You can find Jeff at rotowire.com. I would encourage that you do that.
63:57You can also follow him wherever you follow people on social media, and you can feel free to wish him a bon
64:04voyage because right after this, he's headed out for an Easterly vacation.
64:07He's going to my stomping grounds. We're not going to get too specific because we don't want people tracking him down in
64:14hotels, but I hope you have a wonderful trip, my friend.
64:18Thank you. My pleasure. And looking forward to seeing you at a cross poker table sometime soon.
64:23And thank you so much for listening. So good to talk to Jeff.
64:27I talked to him a lot in real life, but amazing to have him on the show as well.
64:33So nice to be able to do this with your friends.
64:37Let's thank the sponsors as well. We were sponsored today by Z Biotics and Wild Grain and Trust and Will.
64:43And if you were interested in anything I had to say about today's sponsors, you can find their information in today's show notes.
64:51All of the current sponsors are listed at harrisfootball.com.
64:53When you're able to, you know, find a need and maybe, you know, support a sponsor that fills that need, that is wonderful.
65:01That's the best of all worlds. I wouldn't want anybody just supporting a sponsor and they didn't want the thing.
65:07But if you do have the means and a need and you can pick a sponsor, that's how the whole thing happens.
65:14And you do a wonderful job of that because obviously a lot of these sponsors keep coming back.
65:20So if you want to give them a try, I'm going to have some wild grain croissant egg sandwich as soon as I'm done here.
65:28I'm really looking forward to that. So thanks very much to those companies for sponsoring.
65:32That's going to do it for this episode. Coming up on Friday, the final July show, the final training camp preview show
65:39will be into full-time mode as of Monday of next week.
65:43The Friday show is going to be a great one, though.
65:46We've got one more division left. That's the AFC North.
65:50We're going to talk through those teams with our buddy Matt Harmon from Yahoo and Reception Perception.
65:55That's going to be a great one as well.
65:58Until then, thanks again so much for listening. Your hat is awesome.
66:02You're awesome for wearing it. I will talk to you on Friday.
66:06The Harris Football Podcast's opening theme is Under the Gun by Apex Manor.
66:10The closing theme is Say Yes by The Wellspring.
66:13Subscribe to the podcast on iTunes and never miss an episode.

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