0:00On today's episode, you're going to get part one of a two-part series Pat Kerrane from Legendary Upside and myself, Eric Cineport from Spike Week,
0:09with the very best picks at each position in fantasy football. We're going to cover the remainder of the picks next week on part two, but today
0:17listen in for one quarterback, one wide receiver, and one tight end from both Pat and myself that are the very best
0:23picks in the draft. We get into deep discussion about each of those players, and we also get into some, you know,
0:30positional breakdowns and as we tend to do, some fun follow-on discussions that really don't have anything to do with anything but fun and football.
0:38Quarterback, wide receiver, tight end today, running back, flex, and some more wild [music] cards next week, but let's go ahead and get on into the show.
0:49>> [music] >> Hi Pat, we are back and it is [music] already that
1:01hot best ball summer. We're having tout contests and more Travis Hunter debates and Aaron Rodgers is maybe coming back and we're
1:11already in in the thick of it. Camp is still Aaron Rodgers maybe coming back.
1:14It could be any month of the year. That is true. That is quite literally any any month, not even a joke. He He would be the most fitting
1:21guy to come back like, you know, somebody's You know, like remember when Purdy got hurt before the in the NFC Championship game and it would be like
1:29Rodgers, you know, coming out of retirement the week before the like doing the press tour the during Super Bowl. Rodgers would have
1:36like played for the Steelers that year, but then somehow like released and then you know, >> They were They were 4 and 12 and they
1:43were like, let's let's just >> didn't even know this was legal. You can release a player after your season's over? Yep, for Aaron Rodgers.
1:50>> You just want to watch Drew Aller play for a couple of weeks, why don't you go home? And then he's starting in the
1:55Super Bowl for the 49ers. Yeah, but it is you know, things are slowly starting to pick up and before we know it we'll
2:01have drafted a million teams and we'll be getting training camp news and all that kind of stuff. So, today what we're
2:06going to do is no news, no strategy takes, which I guess maybe some of it will intertwine in into that. But, you
2:13know, no structural takes, no none of that. Right now, May the 7th we're recording this, who are your favorite picks in fantasy football? In in best
2:22ball specifically, but it's probably a lot of the same crossover. Both of us are going to pick a quarterback, a running back, a wide
2:28receiver, a tight end. And then I put another one for like a a flex or a wild card, something that maybe didn't get
2:33covered in one of the other spots. Maybe there's an honorable mention you want to mention, whatever, right? It can be whatever the heck you want. I I full we
2:41I we say this a lot. I haven't even prepared my list. I have, you know, the guys I know that I like off the top of
2:46my head and we'll riff we'll riff a little bit.
2:50But, you're you are I guess sort of technically the guest the the co-host, but I'm I'm on this side. So, I'm going to I'm going to call
2:58dibs to second. I'm going to go I'm going to go second. I'm going to make Pat >> [clears throat] >> We're going to make Pat go first and
3:04oh no, I shared the wrong the wrong screen, which is giving away one of my guys. Uh here's the list. Again, quarterback,
3:10running back, wide receiver, tight end and a wild card. Start wherever you would like on the board. It's Jeopardy.
3:15You want to start at the bottom, you want to start at the top, doesn't matter.
3:17>> Yeah, okay.
3:19Uh I also don't I didn't fully prepare a list. I've kind of just going based >> that a lot.
3:26>> Yeah, but we I I just did a big rankings refresh.
3:29Um >> Me, too. Yesterday.
3:31>> So, I'm feeling good about about that.
3:34Um and so I'm just pulling up the rankings here and and kind of going off that. Um I'll I'll say for for quarterback, I'll
3:42I'll do Patrick Mahomes.
3:44Who I think um it's like he's in a range where he's with quarterbacks who just aren't
3:56Patrick Mahomes and he is Patrick Mahomes.
3:59>> [laughter] >> You know, it's like, "Hey, you know what I know about Jackson Dart? He's not Patrick Mahomes."
4:04And Patrick Mahomes is Patrick Mahomes.
4:06Now, he's coming off a torn ACL.
4:08He's disappointed us a few times. Uh last year he actually scored pretty well. Um he's in a similar situation.
4:16Matt Nagy's gone, which I think improves the situation.
4:20Bieniemy's back.
4:22We we can count on pass volume. Like we can count on pass volume there.
4:26Um you know, there Rashee Rice will will be there, you know, that's that I mean I guess I shouldn't say definitely, but
4:35basically everything with him is is blown over for now. So >> He's not an Aaron Rodgers wildcard, but he's he's a he's a he's in the Charlie
4:43Kelly uh wildcard >> kind of wildcard, yeah.
4:46I would say Charlie Charlie Kelly's a little more fun. Uh maybe not wholesome cuz he that guy's got some issues, but
4:52uh I find him more fun.
4:54>> More like Stefon Diggs, like might get himself into a little bit of trouble, but he ultimately maybe he's okay. He's
4:59just kind of crazy. Rashee Rice is like more Dennis wildcard, like demonic [ __ ] like just a really bad a really bad person.
5:08>> Yeah, it seem seems like there's we're getting some signs. Um but at the same time, you know, and Kelce's returned,
5:16Worthy will be will be healthier. So And he I mean he fundamentally he's just way cheaper coming off the torn ACL. The
5:25uh all the reports around him have been pretty positive about when he's returning.
5:31Um I do think he'll you know, he could easily miss some time to begin the year.
5:36But he's on track to be Patrick Mahomes down the stretch.
5:39And if you're trying to like fill in some First of all, I'm taking way way more three quarterback teams than I used
5:45to. That's something that the Sims have identified as is an edge and I'm doing that not always, but I am doing that.
5:51And so, all right, well what's one advantage of having three quarterbacks instead of two? A guy like Patrick Mahomes, you're not spending a
5:58ton on.
5:59Um can you you can ride that out in the early season. You got two other quarterbacks that are going to score
6:05pretty well.
6:06And Patrick Mahomes might be back reasonably early. It's not like he's going to miss half of the year. We're not expecting that. He might miss a
6:12couple games. Maybe he goes on pup, but you know, he's going to play most of the season. And then down the stretch you
6:20have like one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time.
6:24You know, and we know that the money is all in the back half of the season.
6:28That's those final I mean, week 17, but but also in those single single elimination weeks in 15 and 16. So, I don't know. I mean, he just seems like
6:37a great fit for the format that we're playing here.
6:40Um you know, and and pretty underpriced that he hasn't really moved up since the reports are like, "Hey, this dude's going to be
6:47uh you know, on track like like he's on track for OTAs type stuff." Like I'm not really I'm I'm still remaining I'm still retaining
6:56some skepticism on the timeline.
6:58>> Yeah.
6:59>> But uh you know, we're not getting anything bearish and my initial read was that he would be 100% by the end of the
7:06year and so, um you know, I I remain on board with that that outlook.
7:12>> I always struggle with So, like um I did a show this morning and I started sort of waxing poetic about Malik Nabers um in through the
7:23lens of I think this guy was in route to being one of if not the best wide receiver on planet Earth and then tore his ACL. Um
7:34and so, it's like what those things are very difficult. I struggle to wrap my head around it cuz on one hand,
7:40I can't really argue with when someone says, well, he had a serious injury last year. You know, and like what is that is
7:47he ever going to be the same? You know, and then like someone will bring up say a a comp, right?
7:53And they'll pick a guy where it didn't go well. You know, like the and it's like I can't I cannot refute that.
8:00But also like the upside of what if he's just fine is like more than baked in a lot of the times, not always. I would argue the
8:09George Kittle price is kind of shocking given the injury that he had and the timing of the injury that he had and the
8:16age and everything.
8:17But I think with Mahomes it's it's almost impossible to deny even even off of a couple of >> He's not a skill player, first of all. I
8:23mean, he's mobile, [clears throat] but he he's been the rushing has been trending down, you know.
8:28You're betting Mahomes to be a high volume passer with you know, some mobility. He can with escapability, let's say.
8:35>> Yeah.
8:36>> And >> You think that part goes down though because it has been >> It could go down a little.
8:42>> how I would classify Mahomes' rushing is like Herbert's rushing, which is maybe a teaser that it's not they're not Lamar, they're not
8:52Josh Allen, they're not Justin Fields or whatever. But like the ceiling lifter from a best ball perspective especially is like oh shoot, he ran for 70 yards
9:01and a touchdown twice in this season or something. You're like, that's how he scored 40 or what you know what I mean?
9:07Like it's like they do it enough and they scramble enough and you know, that it really lifts that ceiling above like
9:13just a straight true pocket passer, Matthew Stafford, Kirk Cousins.
9:16>> [clears throat] >> Yeah, and I'm not that worried about that for Mahomes. Like at the end of the year, I'm really not. Like he's
9:23it's not like I mean, young Mahomes, you know, was a little different, but this this version of Mahomes like the way he's scrambling
9:31that he has for the last few years, it's like it's not electric.
9:35>> [laughter] >> You know, it's it's intelligent.
9:38>> when he does it, by the way.
9:39>> Yeah. Yeah, he kind he kind of does the the He does what I do when I'm like when I've gotten if I like if I was like, you
9:47know, running for a ball, like playing tennis and I'm I'm running and I realize like I'm not going to get there and I have to
9:53slow down now.
9:54>> [laughter] >> You know, like the like, "Okay."
9:58>> The limbs are kind of going, you know, the limbs are kind of going. He's always kind of using the whole upper body.
10:02>> Yeah. Kind of like lean back a little or you know, take the some of the Yeah, that's how he looks running out of
10:07bounds now.
10:08>> Yeah.
10:10He also like knows that they can't hit him. So, it's like he doesn't have to stop when he knows they're really not
10:15going to they're not going to hit him.
10:16So, he is like >> [laughter] >> It is It is a It is a treat. It is a treat to watch. Um But, yeah, I think if
10:22>> But, he's just intelligent when he sees that space, he'll take those yards. You know, he's not They don't really utilize
10:27him at the goal line.
10:29>> But, old Rogers, right? Used to like, "Oh my god, Rogers ran for 36 yd."
10:31>> 36 yd today cuz it was like he picked up some scrambles cuz he just is a genius on the football field.
10:38>> Pat, at [snorts] the end of the, you know, kind of the Packers Rogers still would still have that. I mean, and that
10:42guy was what? 7 years older than >> Mhm.
10:45>> Mahomes is now. So, >> Yeah, mid-30s or whatever. Yeah.
10:48>> Yeah, that functional mobility is I still I still think we're going to get that. Maybe maybe that is curtailed to begin the year.
10:56You know, maybe he's in a brace and stuff, but like I'm I'm part of this bet for me is that like he
11:02is back to that type of guy uh by the end of the season. This is like, you know, clean ACL tear, on track,
11:10looking good for I mean, like I did I made a bet like with if you give me a discount and there's
11:20upside, I'll bet on an ACL tear for skill player. Like I was huge on Breece Hall coming off of his early
11:28season ACL tear that was like the reports were super positive about the recovery.
11:34And he ended up being a pretty big hit that year. So, it's not like, you know, the we have had some bad ACL stuff.
11:40We've had some good ACL stuff.
11:42I I think the fact that he isn't dependent on like his primarily his arm is doing doing the work for us, but, you know, the the
11:51rushing, yeah, we maybe we lose a little of the rushing juice in total and certainly in the beginning of the season, but I think by the end of the
11:57year we're pretty likely to have Mahomes back.
12:02>> Um I think how I would classify and it seems like you're pretty similar, like these types of injuries, right?
12:09Like air quotes serious.
12:11>> Um >> Yes, he also tore his LCL, by the way, which I should mention.
12:14>> So, serious relatively great season-ending what used to be like are how good are you going to be the next year? Are you going to play the
12:23next year? Those types of injuries, right? Of course, Achilles is kind of the new uh one that's happening a lot more, but right,
12:29ACLs and what have you.
12:31If, like you said, now defining what is a discount and what isn't a discount is, you know, a little bit of a inexact science, more of an art
12:39than a science, for sure.
12:41But, I think if you're getting some form of a discount, uh who am I to say I could ever predict There's people who do this
12:50professionally.
12:52Doctors, right? Uh trainers, all that kind of stuff. They can't predict these things. So, why would I We can rationalize it all we You could
12:58rationalize either side, right? Like you said, and I don't even it's not wrong.
13:02You're like, he's a quarterback, like, you know, he's making his money with his with his arm, not with his legs, and all
13:08this kind of stuff. And I think that all makes sense. But, at the end of the day, it's Patrick Mahomes at a really good price, and like
13:15if he's if he's not right, so be it.
13:17Like I Who am I to guess? I'm I'm I'm getting paid off in such a big way if he is right that I it's it's not that I
13:24don't care about the downside, it's that we tend to fixate on the downside when it's like it's this it could be one or
13:30the other and there's this range of outcomes and a lot of it is probably positive.
13:35>> Yeah, and I I think to the discount element in Underdog scoring, which is going to be, you know, less passing yard focused than something like
13:44DraftKings without the bonus.
13:46Um the Patrick Mahomes finished quarterback three in points per game last year. He was tied with tied with Drake May.
13:55Uh 20.9 Underdog points per game. Josh Allen is was at 21.9 and Matthew Stafford was at 21.1.
14:03So, you know, he you are getting a discount relative to what he did last year. Like we don't even have to really talk about
14:13how high his ceiling has been in the past if you don't think that guy exists anymore, but just relative to what he
14:19did last year in a similar like extremely similar situation, I think potentially a little bit better.
14:27Anytime you trade out Matt Nagy for basically anyone, it's a it's a an upgrade.
14:31>> And I mean Eric Bieniemy is an upgrade.
14:33You can say whatever you want about Ken Walker is an upgrade over Kareem Hunt in every >> Yeah, for the explosiveness of the
14:38offense, the potency of the offense, I think that's that's certainly true.
14:42Um so, yeah, I mean I think Eric Bieniemy I at least from a pass volume locking in that pass volume point of view, I do
14:50view that I view that as like a positive OC switch, not like something I'm super bullish about, but I think it's
14:57you know, it's good.
14:58Uh and so yeah, I mean it's just like we are getting a discount. Like that that is extremely clear, you know, like he would
15:07he you might not like it, you might not take him, but I think he'd be going in the sixth round if he was healthy.
15:15Right? He'd be going in that that game if he was >> in that mix, yeah, in >> In that mix, yeah, that's where he'd be
15:20going. So, there is a discount and I think for the purposes of a a really back-weighted kind of production tournament,
15:30which is like extremely is, and at a position where I can build in depth pretty easily and kind of want to
15:37anyway, um and fairly cheaply at quarterback, you know, it's like, "Hey, you're spending that 10th round pick, 12th round pick on that
15:47quarterback through, maybe even later, um to get that production that helps you to get through."
15:52I mean, with Aaron Rodgers, if that if that becomes official, that's that's a way to do it. You get You get, you know,
15:57you're spending your last round pick to help fill out quarterback production, um and and bring Patrick Mahomes along as he gets fully healthy.
16:06Uh yeah.
16:08I like it. Uh I'm going to I'm going to stick at quarterback and it is uh I guess I would somewhat similar sort of logic in that
16:18that the ceiling is not baked in and it is a lot based upon uh something that happened last season and maybe a little
16:24bit of a trend uh as well. I actually, maybe yesterday on stream, double-tapped Mahomes and this guy at a at a turn with
16:33a a stack of Rashee and Ladd McConkey.
16:37And so, my guy is Justin Herbert, who goes in a very similar tier to Pat Mahomes and um has been is a little, you
16:45know, a little bit younger and is not off of an injury, but he's sort of off an injury-marred campaign to all the [ __ ] around him,
16:53yeah. Specifically the offensive line.
16:55And in a with a more of a boomer offensive coordinator. And so, it's again, it's not the same it's not the same, Matt Nagy versus uh oh my god,
17:04what's the the the He was the old Ravens offensive coordinator, was the Chargers offensive coordinator last year. I can't uh remember his name anyway, but anyway,
17:12they might >> Greg Roman. Greg Roman.
17:14>> Greg Roman. They have uh uh so, they go from Greg Roman, which is like Greg Roman >> Sorry, I was just looking at Jeff
17:19Mueller's timeline to make sure I I hadn't gone off the deep end on Mahomes and he's just like just victory lapping Mahomes' timeline,
17:25which he's been which he's been ahead of on the entire way saying he's definitely playing week one. Or not definitely, but
17:30that he thinks he will.
17:32>> Yeah, I think that would be Greg Roman.
17:34I think that would be my bet as well. So So Greg Roman to Mike McDaniel and then um last year, right? What we saw with
17:42Justin Herbert, especially like flaming out in the playoffs running around like a chicken with his head cut off, similar to Mahomes
17:47uh because the offensive line couldn't protect him at all. He had to go straight superhero. I think he was pretty shook actually in the play in the
17:53play in the playoff game. He did not look um like like himself.
17:57And like small weapons upgrades, just like a depth of weapons. Uh and so the offensive line thing, I should have finished finished my point. That was due
18:06to injury. They have they have arguably the best set of tackles in football.
18:11It's certainly at the at the near the top, however you want to rank them. I'm not a offensive line guru. But uh
18:17Rashawn Slater and Joe Alt is near the top. So Slater goes down in camp last year. He's going to be good to go. Then
18:22Alt moves to left tackle and then he goes down during the season, right? And that is like >> all-time catastrophic bad to have to go
18:31from That That is one of the greatest strengths any offensive line has in the league to one of the worst tackle tandems that you
18:38have in the league. They've also bolstered up the interior of the offensive line. Last year they drafted Amari and Hampton and [snorts] and Trey
18:45Harris to go with Quentin Johnston and Quentin Johnston. They add in just some depth that I think is like in terms of things can always go
18:53catastrophically bad for for these offenses. Like there can always just be a ton of of injuries. But just like like even like adding Brendan Thompson, like
19:01who knows? Keenan Allen still out there, right? Do they Do they feel like they need to add some more depth to keep
19:06adding Keeton Mitchell, signing Charlie Kohler, right? Like they're sniffing around David and It's just like I don't that doesn't make me feel
19:13>> Second round lineman.
19:14>> Second round offensive lineman. That doesn't make me feel like great for like, oh I get do I have to click
19:18Quinton Johnston. But for Justin Herbert, all of this is the surrounding talent and offensive uh line upgrade and offensive coordinator upgrade, uh he has
19:27the rushing to similar he's a similar runner-ish to Patrick Mahomes that in a peak ceiling you get some really nice rushing juice out of this guy.
19:34Touchdowns, 400 yards or something like that. He's not again, he's not Lamar and he's not Justin Fields, but you can add
19:40some real big ceiling games where you're like, "Holy [ __ ] Justin Herbert ran for 80 yards and a touchdown in in this
19:45game." He has that in his bag and he now has like fail Last year was like if anything went wrong like those
19:53offensive lineman, it was going to it it went south. We've raised this floor where like, "Look, is Justin Herbert going to be
20:00the QB2 again?" Which he has been in his career, right? Regimes ago. But he has been the quarterback two and we drafted
20:06him as the quarterback two after his rookie season. We thought Herbert was going to be this guy you know, for many,
20:10many years. And I I think now is actually the time where we should be betting that he is that guy given the
20:17surroun- given his evolution as a player and the surrounding talent and coaching and everything. But now now we're like, you know, we're not we haven't given up.
20:24His price is okay, but we're not paying we're not paying through the roof for this for this guy. It's a totally
20:29reasonable price. Like you said, I can double tap Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert in whatever round eight and nine, you know, seven and eight in in
20:37best ball drafts. And like, if you'd have told me that three years ago that I was going to be able to do that with and
20:43you you laid out like all the stuff that we've just said about both these guys, I was you're [ __ ] insa- that's insane.
20:47Yeah. I'm like, these guys are like fourth fourth, fifth round picks. And and in this QB environment, which is so crazy, there's not very good cheap guys.
20:55You just brought up Aaron Rodgers, right? Like there's not very many good cheap guys. It it gets bleak really fast when you can get these kind of guys at
21:03these prices like I just sign me up.
21:07>> Yeah, it's like there's never been more of a quarterback window than this year, but the window is like really, really
21:12nice. And I mean, it makes to me it makes Josh Allen a really, really tough click.
21:18Um and it makes Lamar Jackson less of a fun click than I wish he was.
21:23>> Yep.
21:23>> Um I take it it's like, "Hey, Jayden Daniels is available in the sixth, you know?" And and I do like that and then
21:30Maye's there and then Hurts.
21:32Those guys are kind of like your premium quarterback upside bets, but at a big discount, especially to Allen.
21:40And then [clears throat] you're then you're in it. The window's begun.
21:42Uh you know, Williams is right there and and kind of more guys who are like bets on breakouts and upside and
21:49um you know, kind of a mix of stuff, but I think that, you know, I I like living in that window a lot, you know? There's
21:56a lot of guys to like.
21:58One of the things that I don't you know, that I am a little bit nervous about with like how much Mahomes
22:04I do in up taking is that I I want Herbert. Um I want I want to take Dak. I want to take Herbert. Uh but but Herbert
22:13even more. I I'm I'm with you on this one. Like he's he's [snorts] in like never really had that good of an OC like his entire
22:22career. Cuz you're you're talking about Greg Roman who we know like can do he's he's good for like you know, kind of getting things like at
22:30a baseline level of competence, >> Mhm.
22:33>> but then it's like it it maxes out quick, you know?
22:37>> raiser and a ceiling limiter.
22:40>> Exactly. And we want a a ceiling raiser with with Justin Herbert. He kind of brings the floor at this point. Like he
22:46he's good.
22:48Um you know, and and What What did he start with? Anthony Lynn at at at OC? Or head coach?
22:55>> coach.
22:56>> Yeah, and he I mean, this is the the he then went on to to be the Lions OC and then Campbell stepped in and said, "No,
23:04no, no, I'm calling plays." And then Ben Johnson came in from there. So, like it's it's very possible that Mike McDaniel,
23:11who's got his own flaws, too, sure. I I think he's he's not like a perfect OC by any means, but he he's at least like an upgraded
23:21version of Roman, where you could go, "Man, this this is now kind of capped out. The The Mike McDaniel project's capped out now here in 2027 or here in
23:302028."
23:31>> Right.
23:32>> But I think in 2026 we're going to see some you know, some real improvements and uh some optimization in terms of the way
23:40that the Chargers are running their offense and their passing game.
23:44Uh Uh yeah, I think I think Herbert could be really fun from that perspective. And then you do have I mean, Jewel coming
23:50back is is hard to understate. Uh the hard to overstate, excuse me. Um >> [laughter] >> Rashawn Slater did tear his patellar, I believe.
24:00>> Yeah.
24:00>> Which is a pretty devastating injury. Um And so, it's possible he's never quite the same guy.
24:08Uh Like I know from just like the Who was that running back that that was like a Dallas Cowboys uh
24:19It wasn't It Dunbar Lance Dunbar, maybe?
24:21>> Lance Dunbar, there's a name I haven't heard in a while. I thought you were going to talk about Marcus Lattimore.
24:26It's always the devastating uh knee injury. I always think of Marcus Lattimore. Uh and the 49ers drafted him in the second round, by the way.
24:33>> Yeah, he tore his ACL and patellar while returning a kickoff, and it was like >> Hm.
24:39>> That was it. Like we I don't think he ever played again. So, uh For and it's like it's I believe it's
24:44like what connects your like basically the power from your quad like to the knee to like it's like the engine, you know? Like what allows your
24:52engine to Yeah, I'm not a doctor, as you can tell.
24:55I'm not even a mechanic. Um but like it's a pretty devastating injury, especially for like skill players type dudes, but so I don't know.
25:05I really don't know how much it will affect Slater.
25:07>> Yeah.
25:07>> Uh but it's something to keep in mind.
25:09At the same time, he was so good that even if it does have a big impact and he is just like a solid tackle, that would
25:16still be a massive upgrade from where they were last year.
25:20>> League average would be a huge >> League average when you add Alton, if you just get a league average >> tackle on the other side. Like
25:26comparatively, like you said, compared to what it was. It's like moving on from Matt Nagy. It's like, dude, the enemy the enemy doesn't have to be Kyle
25:34Shanahan. He just needs to be okay with Mahomes and and these guys. Like and and and now you've unlocked this crazy
25:41potential upside in the season.
25:42>> Right. And so I think I think Slater, you know, at the very least provides a ton of upside for this offensive line
25:48uh in tandem with all if they stay healthy. Um and then yeah, the the offense in in general is is fun to
25:54invest in. I like taking McConkey. I think Gadsden's interesting, particularly if they don't bring in like an Njoku. I mean, he's a little like
26:01fragile to what they end up doing, you know, like if they do sign Njoku that it's not ideal, but um it's like not
26:09it's very not ideal.
26:10>> And they paid Charlie Kolar a lot more money than you would than you would hope. But he just reeks of the Mc Da-
26:15like this is my Mc Daniel sort of blocking tight end to kind >> He's Dissly. [clears throat] He's Dissly. It's like you're going to have a
26:21Dissly if you have Gadsden. Like >> And who was the Yeah, Gadsden is functionally a wide receiver. So that's why for our purposes, like there's going
26:29to be some games for sure where he like doesn't play a whole lot. But you're welcome to tight end pass.
26:36>> He's Waller. He's he's the next Darren Waller. Like I did Right. And yeah.
26:43>> I don't mean he plays the same way. I mean like, you know, Johnny is not a good blocker. Waller is not They're like
26:47functionally wide receivers.
26:49>> They're they're Yeah, they're big Mc Daniel can unlock that when it when things go well, but also >> McDaniel likes those guys.
26:54>> Exactly.
26:55>> Yeah. Yeah.
26:56>> [snorts] >> Yeah, so I mean I I I just I don't want to keep stick sticking on these these guys so we can
27:02make sure we hit our other positions, but I I think I'm so glad you said Mahomes cuz I was going to say Herbert
27:08and like they're the epitome to me of not just those two, but like you said that window if you like a different guy,
27:15you know, whatever you like Purdy or Nix or whatever. There's like a window of quarterbacks and once that window closes, you're in like you're in deep [ __ ] at
27:25the quarterback position. You better love Bryce Young or Fernando Mendoza or whatever, uh which maybe you do, but I'm saying the bets get the drop off from
27:35the type of bet from that window after is steeper than we've ever seen it in the >> Stroud who's in at 140. I think that's
27:44he is he's like he's not exciting, but you know, I think he fits with kind of the general vibe of of guys going
27:53like he's not that different than than like Jordan Love or >> See, I think he's I think he's a good clip different, but
28:01>> Yeah, I mean I want those guys over him.
28:04>> Yeah.
28:05>> But he's he's he's shown upside. He's he's young.
28:09He's been like very productive, you know, a guy that you like play in DFS and then like wins you a tournament, you
28:16know, like that this is from his rookie year, but like also so what? You know, the fact that he did as a rookie
28:22shouldn't like be a negative necessarily. It's been a couple years, which is a negative.
28:27But you know, I think there's there's still upside to to the profile of him as a pocket passer. We also know that like
28:32going all the way back to JJ Zachariason stuff of late round quarterbacks like we're not that great at predicting like a pure the pure pocket passing guys and
28:40which guys are going to spike like Baker used to be really cheap, then he spikes, you know, Uh, Love was he runs a little, but you know,
28:48primarily it's it's passing. You Love used to be really cheap.
28:52>> Even Gino Gino >> Stafford used to be super cheap.
28:56>> Yeah, Stafford like Gino on the Seahawks we were like, oh my god, this is going to go so disastrously and you're like, I
29:00don't know he threw for whatever 4,000 something yards and was really useful as a late round quarterback.
29:05>> Yeah. So Stroud, you know, guy who's got it he's got a wide receiver one. He has some other young receivers. He's got
29:10potentially Tank Dell coming back. We'll see what he's got left in the tank.
29:14>> Um >> He has a pass-catching tight end that's that's solid. They upgraded running back which was which was kind of a disaster
29:21last year.
29:22Uh, the offensive line still not great, but you know, I don't know if they're ever going to fix that.
29:27>> My biggest concern is that apparently they're not all that interested in in in fixing the offensive line.
29:34>> Yeah, that is a concern.
29:36>> It's it's terrifying. My honest-to-god my biggest concern of CJ Stroud is not that I can't see a bounce back or you
29:42know, like a lot of people argue, well, he sucks now. And like I mean, he might.
29:45He hasn't been playing particularly great, but I don't put that all on him.
29:48Uh, DeMeco Ryans and then the sort of identity that they've built with this team is is worrisome, right? Like I mean, that defense is gnarly. That's the
29:56way DeMeco Ryans wants to play. And so you're you get you get so much run run pass which does him no which which which
30:02helps him, you know, a guy who's sort of quasi struggling uh, for a couple of years. Like they're they're making it
30:08harder on him than needs to be. If you come out and play a little bit more modern offense, get you get out to a
30:12lead and then let him take the foot off the gas in the second half. Stop trying to win 13-7 every week, DeMeco. Like why
30:18don't you go win 28-10 and you're you know, you're cruising in the fourth quarter, but they try to make it too
30:23hard and that's been difficult for Stroud.
30:26>> I I agree. I mean, I do it's more that like, hey, the fact that he's he's in the 140s I
30:32think we haven't ranked him like 127. So I'm you know, uh >> He's too talented in a vacuum for his price given the
30:40landscape. Yeah.
30:41>> But like you have you know we have Love who's at 106 at 103. We've got Baker also a little bit ahead of ADP.
30:52>> Are you ahead on like almost all these quarterbacks?
30:54>> So many in the window like so many like Purdy, Nix, Stafford, Kyler, Goff, Love, uh that uh Baker. We're ahead on
31:04on all those guys in that kind of core part of the window and then Herbert, Dak, Mahomes uh way ahead on as well. I've actually filtered
31:13this to guys like we're significantly ahead on not just a little so um yeah, we're we're ahead. Um it's more that like after that window ends there's
31:23like really no quarterbacks that we there's literally one other quarterback that that we're like decently ahead of ADP on and it's Stroud.
31:32Um so yeah, he's he's just the exception where I I do think he's a bit undervalued.
31:37But yeah, I mean like I'm not a big Willis guy.
31:40Uh I'm not >> before he signed with the Dolphins. I was pretty excited. Right.
31:47>> Uh Rodgers I I do think you know certainly draftable especially like a kind of bailout guy. I'm taking decent amount in superflex but um
31:56yeah, it it the general point is like hey get your quarterbacks in the quarterback window this year and Mahomes and Herbert I think are are
32:04two really strong ways to play that.
32:06>> I completely agree. All right. Um do you want to go or do we do we want to snake draft it?
32:12It's a two-person snake draft is awfully weird but I I I I'm more than happy to go again.
32:17>> Uh I can go if you want. And the Oh.
32:21Mm.
32:24I have a few different wide receivers I really like.
32:27>> Me too.
32:28>> Uh >> That's the toughest position for me.
32:30>> Yeah. Why don't you go? Why don't we snake it cuz I don't want to see if >> Yeah.
32:34>> Okay. I'm going to go I'm I'm go down to tight end.
32:36>> Okay.
32:37>> Because I think one one way I like to like it's really easy in my opinion to like take some like super cheap tight
32:43end who's like oh, this guy's definitely going to pay off his price. And it's like that's true.
32:48Probably, you know, some guy who goes 180 or whatever. But it's like he's paying off his price cuz he you know,
32:54he's drafted as the tight end 26 and he ends at the tight end 19 or something.
32:58That's great. I'm not I'm not like pooh-poohing that. But what I think like now this guy's not going at this price and Trey McBride last year was you
33:08know, a two three turn pick or whatever.
33:10But like give me the guys that have the talent to where we look back and they like defined the season. And like it's not that I
33:17don't care about the price of those guys. But like find the next Trey McBride. Find the next Brock Bowers who I like both of them. Just find I mean
33:24Brock Bowers is I'm going to have a lot of that guy. But if there's one guy that takes a leap beyond the sort of top
33:31elite tier like the super elite tier of tight end into to that group. To me, it's Harold Fannin. It is a guy who who
33:40I feel like these scenarios, not always.
33:43Nothing in there's no hard and fast rules.
33:46When they pop early, when we were like you know, you and I were excited about him. Like we were talking about him in
33:52like February of last year, right? Like we were very excited about him. And then people slowly caught on over the summer,
33:59right? People are just like oh, you know, this thing went from a cute like you know, small school prospect to like
34:06oh, he's actually very good to like oh, he's like borderline number one pass catcher on on the Browns in week one of his rookie
34:14season. So like everybody felt that transition, but there's still this hesitant >> He still stayed cheap though. He he I mean just
34:2218th, 19th, 20th round on DraftKings like you're just getting them getting them at the end of the at the end of
34:26drafts just tack them on tack them on.
34:28>> One of the only things I did right last year was just like hammering hammering the [ __ ] out of late round Harold
34:34Bannon. And I think what happens sometimes, it's sort of like, you know, the the thing I think Leone said it is
34:39like the risers don't generally rise enough like in a draft cycle.
34:43You know, like so like we're in May 7th.
34:46By August, there's going to be guys who rise up a lot, but a lot of times they don't even still rise enough because
34:51there's still this anchoring effect to the the it's like, "Damn, those people, you know, look at my day one team. I got
34:57this dude at pick 195 or whatever." And it's like he's actually still worth you know, more than what you're paying.
35:02It's just you don't feel like it. That's what I feel about a guy like Harold Bannon. When it sort of comes out of
35:07nowhere, air quotes, to some people that like, "No, this dude's a stud. This dude is a rookie like this dude was young for
35:14a rookie. He's an absolute star." That like in a truly disastrous offense with the worst QB play you could ever possibly imagine,
35:22he was still producing. Now, those QBs are still generally there, but like there you cannot possibly get worse. And David Njoku's gone. I don't take those
35:32Ricky wide receivers as a bad thing. I take it like, "Please God, make this offense more functional."
35:38You know what I mean? How do we score more touchdowns? I want him to score more touchdowns, not just get 12 targets
35:42every game. I want I want like these huge games. I think he is the guy who we look back and you're like, "You were
35:48getting him in the 80s?" In the 80s? You know what I mean? And he's and he's going at the two three turn next year or
35:54something. Like he's in the mix. I don't know if he's Bowers, I don't know if he's McBride, but he's like the the next
35:59guy that's in that in that mix at the tight end position. And I'm just like I'm never I don't think other than
36:06injury there's a scenario at this price I feel terrible about it, right? It's like the quarterbacks. Like what's the what's the downside? Like it seems fine
36:13even in the the sort of flourish outcomes, but the ceiling outcome is so high at this price that I I I don't have
36:20to just like normally I would just hammer Brock Bowers and you know, Trey McBride Loveland again, but I can also get this dude in the 80s who might be
36:27just as good as them, but it's the Browns stink and I think sort of the anchoring effect to the the prospect stuff and where we got him last
36:34year.
36:36>> Yeah, I think it's both because the the pre-draft price was was, you know, pretty good for him. I've taken him less
36:45since the draft where I do think like Concepcion is a high upside first round receiver who profiles as a potential target earner and not
36:54necessarily as like a deep threat, but more of like an intermediate and potentially shallow, you know, screen type of guy. His final season was more
37:04of like a traditional true number one wide receiver season, but he did all that >> in his career he was a gadgety
37:09>> Yeah, earlier in his career he was more of a gadgety type guy. Get the ball in his hands and Which could hurt Fannin, you know, like
37:15is it they're they're kind of doing more underneath stuff and design stuff to to uh Casey Concepcion. Like that that's not great. Um as you know, this is an an
37:26offense where the whole bet is really going to be about target share, not offensive potency. And so Concepcion could hurt there and then he could also
37:34hurt his just earning targets. Like he's just a good wide receiver who earns targets and and that is always going to hurt a tight end
37:41because um a number one wide receiver is generally going to be the top target on a team over a tight end. You have to be so so
37:49good at tight end in a way that's truly rare uh to be like the number one target when the receivers are also good.
37:58And then so he's he's potentially in a a tough spot where you have bad quarterback play and uh good wide receiver play. That that's a
38:08that's like kind of a you're you're boxed in a little bit there at tight end. At the same time he was an amazing prospect from a
38:16production profile standpoint. The question was can he actually do it at the NFL level?
38:23He played at Bowling Green. Like, does this does this translate? It translated immediately. He had 1.68 yards per route run.
38:32He took David Njoku's job. David Njoku doesn't even play in the NFL right now.
38:38He probably will >> If they did not draft him if they did not draft him, then Njoku is probably back on the Browns as the
38:45starting tight end.
38:45>> As the starting tight end, yeah.
38:47>> this season. But Fanning buried him so bad, he's not even on it.
38:50>> He's in the wilderness.
38:52>> Yeah, he's not on a team right now. Like Fanning just took it. He took that job.
38:56Like I didn't even think that. I had I had bags and bags of this dude. I didn't think he was just going to like
39:01take the job.
39:03>> He shadow realm a legitimately good NFL veteran tight end.
39:07>> Right. So, it's it's it was pretty wild.
39:13We don't know that Concepcion is is good or that even if he is good, he'll hit the ground running. Those are kind of
39:17two different questions to some degree.
39:20Um and even if Concepcion is good, he might be like pretty good to where he's like a Zay Flowers type of good and
39:28you know, you have a Mark Andrews or he's a Rashee Rice type of good and you still have Travis Kelce, you know,
39:35getting plenty of targets as as kind of the the 1A 1B type of setup. I I think Fanning could like very much be in that
39:42mold. Um and the the big question I think from an upside perspective is, you know, can you get enough uh can you get sufficient
39:51quarterback play, right?
39:53>> That's where I would >> You need touchdowns.
39:56Yeah, you you would like touchdowns, yeah.
39:58>> Yeah, generally pretty generally pretty good. Especially if you're playing on underdog. Like a four touchdown season is great as he might be. It just isn't
40:05It'll be okay, but it's not you're not going to be like >> Right.
40:08>> you know, doing laps around your neighborhood.
40:10>> But this is where I would say the price does factor in where like if you have him if you get like Mark Andrews second
40:18season which he had 13.9 PPR points per game he was tight end five but like as one of these guys who
40:26actually like matters at tight end um Kelsey was was the tight end one that year at 16 points per game for for
40:33reference. Kittle was at 15.9.
40:36Waller played all the games and was at 13.9. Finished tight end two. So then Zach Ertz was at 14.4 tight end
40:43four. So it's like one of those it's like yeah, he didn't he doesn't like he's not like the the tight end one.
40:49He's not even you know, like the tight end two, but he's doing he's very productive and he's in this small group of tight
40:59ends who actually matter. That's kind of the question at tight end is like less like did you finish tight end five or
41:03six or whatever? Like did you make the cut of like I care?
41:08>> Yeah, exactly.
41:08>> And I think Fant and is priced where he can make that cut and and it's a hit.
41:15He doesn't have to finish tight end one.
41:17Like Bowers has to finish tight end one or you're like yeah. Or unless him and McBride are just like both un-
41:23unbelievable. But he >> Or just like do.
41:26>> Be be right but he has to be right near at the top and have like some really big games like probably appropriately timed.
41:33Like it is I I mean I like I love him, but I'm saying the the bet the bar is significantly higher than a even Fant
41:40goes as the tight end six but he goes at pick 91. But Bowers goes at pick 22.
41:45>> You know, right. The whole different game.
41:47>> I would say like Loveland is priced at a level where like you'd really like him to be in the mix for tight end one.
41:53>> And I like him but yeah, that is a that is a stark difference.
41:56>> Yeah.
41:57So that's where I mean you're getting Fant down at pick 90?
42:02Uh we Yeah.
42:05He's that's a good pick.
42:08>> [laughter] >> Yeah, that's a good pick. I don't I don't get as much of him as I would assume that I would just based on like
42:15how I do like in a vacuum I'm like yeah this guy like he's a target. But then when I get into drafts
42:24it it's like it's kind of it's last call for any kind of running back production that's not very speculative.
42:31It's I might actually be a little bit behind at wide receiver because I've I've taken you know a fifth round running back
42:38uh or fourth round running back or third round running back what have you and I'm already in the point where I'm looking
42:44at guys like Mahomes and Herbert and all the >> window.
42:48>> He's in the quarterback window.
42:49>> He's in the quarterback window.
42:51>> And I also like Bowers McBride is falling I like him. I like Tyler Warren who goes a little earlier. So there's
42:58other opportunities that I might actually already have a tight end by that point. So for a variety of reasons that have really nothing to do with like
43:05how good of a bet he is I'm not like hammering Fant right now but in a vacuum like I I think he's a really really good
43:13pick. There's there's downside here there's also there's like it's very attainable. The upside that he provides is like super it's like hey
43:23kind of do what you did last year as a rookie with less competition at your position.
43:28Like he's going to run more routes over the course of the year oh if if he stays healthy like there's it's like really I I mean it's the NFL
43:37it's chaotic things happen but like that's that's a pretty safe one.
43:40>> Yep.
43:41>> He's also just if we're if we if we want vibes if you want good vibes have him on your team
43:48and watch the Browns cuz you're not going to enjoy watching the Browns. I'll tell you that much. But when they throw
43:52it to him just like a check down in the flat it is so enjoy like he was viewed they're like is he big enough to play
43:58tight end in the NFL and then you watch him and you're like how the [ __ ] could any of us have ever had that concern?
44:03He's like shrugging off the most brutal savage mutant human beings running full speed at him. And they just bounce off of him. He They're holding onto his
44:12ankle. It's like a you know, it's like a grown adult playing playing tackle football with a bunch of children sometimes. And I'm like I I I I I I
44:19can't understand why I ever thought like this guy couldn't play [laughter] couldn't play tight end because of his like size and strength in the NFL when
44:25you when when you watch him play, right?
44:27At least last year.
44:30>> Yeah, I mean that was always the thing with Fant and too is like he he got kind of treated like he was 220 lbs and he's
44:36like 240 ish pounds and it's Like he he's he's a bit of a tweener, but not in the >> I think we thought he or he was talked
44:45about like a serious tweener. And he was like it was like it was a little bit like sure >> Yeah, I think he was
44:51>> You wish he was 10 lbs heavier and 2 in 2 in taller.
44:53>> And a little bit better of a blocker, but he's actually pretty solid blocker for for his size and stuff. So, yeah.
44:59>> Yep.
45:00Um okay, we have three guys at the same ADP. We're really building out a monster team here. We're going to have to Yeah,
45:06you'll have to pull Mahomes up a round and pray that Fanton falls and then we can get our three guys together on a
45:12on a team here.
45:14>> Yeah, so I'll go ahead. I'll move up.
45:17Um I'll say Brock Bowers. Let's let's do someone actually expensive.
45:23This is one where McBride was was first in ADP.
45:29Uh which I generally followed. You know, it's early.
45:33Kind of you you want to respect the market a little bit. You also want to just have a lot of these like these guys
45:39are generally good. Respect the market you know, partially, but also like the we're not like it's rare especially nowadays that you're just going to like
45:48have a guy like what's this guy doing here at pick [laughter] in 19. This makes no sense. But like so it's often it just aligns with the
45:55guys I want to draft. And so it's tough for me to take not that I'll never do it, but it's not something I'm I'm
46:02you know, often often like being like you know, let me McBride's awesome. Right? So, I So, fine. McBride's the tight end one.
46:11I'll take Bowers tight end two. I I basically did do that for the pre-draft period, but the market's flipped now and
46:19I think they flipped for good reason.
46:21McBride's um I think maybe people are getting a little too bearish on McBride because of the Carson Beck stuff. I mean, if
46:28anything, that almost gives you another out to to quarterback I mean, Brissett no >> Yes. Carson Beck does it.
46:35>> Yes.
46:36It does. Brissett stinks fundamentally.
46:39>> So does Carson Beck, but I know I'm just I'm just joking.
46:42>> I I think the Carson Beck thing is he's getting treated like he's Brady Cook or something. Like, he's not.
46:48He He's He's He's Nick Foles.
46:52You know, he's I mean, he won a Super Bowl, so maybe that's about it, but he I mean, he also was bad. Um
46:58Rem- Remember that Nick Foles was He's Jaguars Nick Foles.
47:01>> Yes. Jaguars Nick Foles.
47:02>> That's what I mean. Not not the the hot running he had for the Eagles.
47:06>> was when Minshew came about? Was that when Minshew came >> Yeah, that's that's what gave us Gardner Minshew, yeah.
47:11>> Yeah.
47:11>> So, maybe Gardner Minshew gives us the next version of Gardner >> Oh my god, this is what This is going to
47:16happen. I like this.
47:18>> He's He's um He's Brock Osweiler.
47:22>> There you go.
47:23>> You know?
47:24>> Yeah.
47:24>> Like, he's not like an affront to the quarterback position.
47:28He's just bad. Just regular old bad.
47:32>> And he he shouldn't have gone in the third round in a typical draft, but there were literally only one good
47:36quarterback in this whole draft, so this is what happened.
47:40>> Yeah.
47:41Yeah, so I I don't His His Drew Lock was his closest comp, then then Foles.
47:46>> That seems right.
47:47>> Uh Broc- Brock Osweiler's up there. Like and kind of like Lock, I think he's like down to chuck it, but like maybe he
47:54should stop doing that.
47:55>> Correct.
47:56>> You know?
47:57>> Um So, is he going to be good? Is he the answer for the Cardinals? No.
48:03But, I don't mind that there's also this other guy here.
48:07>> Totally. That, you know, in addition to Minshew and Brissett, like we're just looking for someone who can like get the
48:13ball to McBride. And I like that if Brissett proves he can't do that, there's a couple of the guys who might be able to.
48:23I I don't think that's a huge like I don't think it's a negative. I'm not psyched about it. I mean, I guess like
48:28it's also like they clear they didn't they couldn't get Mendoza. I think Ty Simpson's not very good. Like I would be
48:33I think Ty Simpson's kind of a similar level of prospect to Carson [laughter] Beck, frankly.
48:39>> Just tools here. He looked better in having a game of seven on seven or something.
48:42>> Yeah, fair. Fair.
48:45But, anyway, it's like what did you expect coming out of the draft? Like this it wasn't going to be Them adding
48:49Beck, I don't see how it's a negative.
48:51And >> This is where I wanted Willis, by the way. This is where I wanted >> Willis would have been I mean, it would
48:56have been worse for McBride probably from a from a volume perspective.
48:59>> But, like the offense would be >> But, the offense, yeah.
49:01>> Yeah. Anyway. Anyway, they I mean, and I don't think Jeremiah Love's necessarily bad for McBride. It it provides them with, you know, a run game, which they,
49:11you know, might not have had much of.
49:13So, so that could actually be helpful.
49:15It's a terrible use of real life draft capital, but whatever. It's not my problem.
49:19>> You mean, after you signed Tyler Allgeier and re-signed James Conner and still have Trey Benson on your roster, spent making the third overall pick the
49:28highest-paid running back in the history of the NFL and guaranteed money doesn't doesn't make uh much sense. It flo- That is Dude, the
49:37Rams doing the Ty Simpson thing in like the second round blocking tight ends, all that is a Caleb Douglas in the
49:41third, all that [ __ ] is insane.
49:44When you knew you had the third pick and you clearly liked Jeremiah Love enough to take him third, that's fine. I don't
49:51I would not do that, right? Neither you or I would draft a running back third overall.
49:54>> But if that's your take, fine. I cuz I he's going to be a good football player.
49:57Then why the absolute [ __ ] did you pay Tyler Allgeier and James Conner these contract? What are you doing? You're
50:04spending more money at the running back position than any You have You're spending more money at running back than you are at quarterback, dude. This
50:10doesn't make any [ __ ] sense.
50:12>> Yeah, although I mean that stuff is like still just like just so marginal compared to you get a
50:22chip and it's like an underpay chip.
50:26It's a The chip is It's like and it's so valuable so hard to get this. And like you get You're like, here's a chip that
50:31lets you underpay one of like an elite football player >> Yep.
50:37>> by like tens of millions of dollars a year.
50:41And you're like >> For 5 years. And the average NFL career is like three. And you get to [laughter] do it for five.
50:47>> I'm going to cash in my underpay chip for an overpay chip.
50:51>> For the biggest overpay [laughter] of all time.
50:54>> That's how much I like this guy. Like no. No.
50:57What?
50:59I don't care how much you like him. You should use the underpay chip. That's the better of the two chips.
51:06>> [sighs] >> It's It's not.
51:07Anyway.
51:08Uh Uh this is like a tangent on a tangent.
51:13McBride I think is slightly under valued.
51:15But Bowers has flipped him now and you look at Bowers coming out of the draft.
51:19They get Andoza which was obviously going to happen.
51:22They didn't draft any receivers, man.
51:25I'm drafting Trey Tucker cuz I'm like pretty sure he's starting all year for the Raiders.
51:30And he's like not horrendous. He's not great, but like that's a starting receiver like all year. He's got Jack Bessey and Deontay Thornton are coming
51:39for this guy? Like give me a break.
51:41>> Mhm.
51:41>> So I mean they're talking today about playing more 12 which makes a lot of sense cuz they don't have any receivers.
51:48>> Michael Mayer's their second best receiver.
51:50>> Like Like maybe he is.
51:52So, I mean, they have Gentry.
51:55They're going to be in run looks all the time.
52:00We know it's good for receivers to compete with tight ends for targets. I don't see how it could be a bad thing
52:06for Bowers to be competing with Michael Mayer for targets, considering he's playing ahead of Mayer. [laughter] Like he's already beat Like you're definitely
52:13better than Mayer, cuz you play over him. And now he's on the field with you, and it's like, "Hmm, which guy's going
52:19to get the target?" And then you know, like they're You're You're look You're talking about a guy who's like not a tight end. Bowers
52:28is a receiver. Fundament- Like he has the skills of a wide receiver, of a of a like a slot receiver. And he he gets
52:35open. He's great after amazing after the catch.
52:39And then you've got this this offense that was designed last year to be like hyper hyper concentrated around the one good receiver. Even with with Kubiak in
52:49New Orleans, it was pretty concentrated to the guys who actually mattered, you know? I think it's just like his target share could be nuts. And this offense
52:59could actually be pretty good. You know, they they also have Yeah, you know, I don't think they're going to like win 11 games or anything,
53:05but it's like I think that they could move from "Oh my god, this is such a disaster" to like very solid.
53:13>> Yep.
53:13>> Where you've got the you've got the running game. You're You're doing the play action off the running game.
53:18You know, go back to the Saints a couple years, where like early in the season, it's like, "Oh my god, they're going to
53:23crush." And then it was a little up and down, but it was not anything where you're like you know, the Raider The Raiders are on
53:31um The Raiders are on Monday Night Football, and that means you have Monday night free.
53:38You know, like that >> [laughter] >> Right, it's not that.
53:42It's not It's not a Jags-Titans Thursday Night Football like week 14 or whatever. They're wearing the ugly ass uniforms and you're
53:49It's It's It's 12-9 or whatever.
53:52>> Yeah. So, I think you're at least like probably you're moving towards functional and I think Cousins being there for the beginning of the year, you
54:00know, helps probably smooth over some some growing pains if Mendoza has them.
54:05Hopefully he doesn't have them and he he plays over Cousins very quickly. I think that that creates more of a ceiling for
54:10the offense, but uh you know, Kubiak's proven he he he's got a very specific style of offense.
54:17This is not, you know, for like redraft purposes. It's It's really Bowers, Gentry, and and nothing.
54:23>> Yeah.
54:23>> Um it's going to be you're you're focused you're you're betting on concentrated volume.
54:28But, I mean, this dude that was That's been the bet with Bowers the whole way.
54:32It's like this guy's going to be a huge target earner. He's going to maximize what he does on those targets because of
54:39how good he is after the catch. He's going to get used around the goal line probably in a variety of ways even with
54:44Gentry there. You know, I think Kubiak could bring some of that creativity.
54:47>> Mhm.
54:48>> And then, you know, the offense has to be functional enough to support him. And I think we're now moving towards that. So,
54:55uh I'm I'm really starting to to get excited about Bowers uh as like, you know, that that mid to late second
55:03round pick. And when he falls to the third, which he occasionally still does, I'm just >> I can't believe what >> .com tonight after you're done listening
55:12to this. And just just uh they got $3 drafts if you don't you know, or $7 drafts if you don't like it it Every
55:18once in a while, you're like, "Brock Bowers pick 30? What What What?
55:23What am I What am I missing?" And you might have your second round pick you might have got past ADP >> [snorts]
55:27>> too. It's like people are getting hip to this as you said he's passing McBride and stuff, but they're not so hip yet
55:33where it's like, "Okay, we're back to paying like pick 14 for Brock Bowers." And I think that's where I have him ranked.
55:39>> [laughter] >> His his his 14th. So like uh uh you can still get him at really good prices >> I'm trying to stay like a little more in
55:45line with the market, but I don't I don't have any issues with that. I just put the ranking My rankings are almost
55:51entirely just like straight raw rankings of like if I did what if you did one draft and you said ADP, what would you do? And that's
55:58that's generally what I what I I try to do, you know, as the summer goes on it changes >> like here's where I'd take this guy and
56:03like let's fire up a draft here's where I would be like assuming I'd take this guy.
56:06>> That's and I kind of like being able to reference like different rank like like okay, you know, um something is adjusting for ADP,
56:13something isn't adjusting for ADP. Like where would you where do you actually take him, [snorts] you know, where would you start looking at him, all that that
56:19I think I think it's helpful uh context, but he's he's a he's an absolute smash.
56:26This year's JSN, many are saying. This year's This year's JSN, but >> I mean like dude, get to play him at tight end? That seems
56:33good.
56:34He would have literally break fantasy if if he was able to to do anything close to I mean, you don't even need obviously like he's not
56:40going to do what JSN did as, you know, a wide receiver versus a tight end, but >> the targets are way
56:46>> he doesn't need to.
56:47>> Yeah.
56:48>> He could break he could break fantasy with like, you know, like yeah, 80% 85% >> Yeah.
56:57Yeah.
56:59All right, I'm going to go to wide receiver. We've got some fun expensive names and and mid-round names and uh I'm
57:07just going to go to my the guy that's uh is a very late pick that I've been hammering since the pre-draft
57:13cycle, so maybe I'm a little anchored to that, but the big concern during the pre-draft cycle was um are they going to
57:19add something either in free agency or in the draft to thwart uh Ryan Flournoy, the pride of uh Southeast Missouri State, uh from being the wide receiver
57:31three on the Dallas Cowboys and they did not. Um, George Pickens is of course back, signed his franchise tag. Um, but
57:40that doesn't really bother me at these prices. I'm not paying for the wide receiver two on the Dallas Cowboys. I'm paying for an ancillary weapon on the
57:47Dallas Cowboys, one of which they're very excited about seeing as they didn't add anything to the room and they let Jalen Tolbert walk. Kavontae Turpin is
57:54nothing but a sort of gadget, you know, and return guy. He's a fun one, but he's he's just a gadget and return guy.
58:00Um, I did just want to point out so he really didn't play much for the first part of the season. I had this up and
58:05was looking at it before we went live.
58:08But I like to look at, you know, yards per route run over an entire season is definitely like, you know, like the most
58:12im- important thing. But I also like to look at like like little like stretches and stuff like that. So first of all, I
58:17mean this was like a couple routes or whatever early in the season. No, I lied, 21. But I mean [ __ ] he went six
58:22six for 114 on 21 routes in in week five. But then even down the stretch, right, when he starts to um, pick up his
58:29playing time a little bit, you see like a couple of like not so great games, but then a couple of like really, really
58:34good games. I mean nine for 115 on three yards per route run against the Lions, like at Detroit in a meaningful game for
58:41for both teams. And just coming on down the stretch uh, for, you know, a sixth-round pick, it's it it's hard to
58:48pop in and just like all of a sudden be kind of good um, in the NFL and then the team to sort
58:54of like anoint you the wide receiver three. This is a team that runs a ton of 11 personnel. They're going to throw it
59:00a lot. The defense is still not is still not good. They're going to be one of the highest scoring offenses in the NFL, you
59:05know, assuming Dak's health, right? All that typical stuff.
59:08He's going to if if anybody's getting one-on-one coverage in their wide receiver room, it's it's going to be him. And I again, I'm not paying for
59:17like I'm not paying for you know, anything crazy. Give me an ancillary option who showed he can be good both alongside CD Lamb and George
59:24Pickens and Jake Ferguson, right? He did it alongside those guys. And then if you if you loot like if CD misses a week, if George Pickens
59:31misses a week. Like imagine showing up to week 17, they're like, "Oh yeah, Pickens isn't playing." And you have Ryan Flournoy against the Lions. You're
59:37like in the 17th round.
59:39Like dude, it doesn't it really doesn't get any better than that. So I have like A roll, right? We're talking about Trey
59:44Tucker, like Jalen Nailor and stuff. And I like I draft those guys.
59:48Like I have I can get this roll with proven upside in one of the best passing offenses in league and some of
59:54the best contingent value that money can buy at the wide receiver position, which is a little bit tricky to find. Like
60:01I'm He's a big reason why maybe sometimes I feel a little more comfortable taking Bowers or taking Fant or not worrying about like, the
60:08quarterback window. Like I would rather I would rather take the quarterback window and get a guy like this at the end than box myself out at the
60:14quarterback position and feel like I'm scrambling for Rodgers or Geno or Brissett or something like that.
60:20He's one of the linchpins of my at least right now draft strategy. He is rising.
60:24Some I'm starting to get a little bit annoyed by that, but he's still too cheap to me.
60:29>> He's one of the guys I'm We're actually a little bit behind on him cuz I with him I'm like you have CD, Pickens, and Ferguson.
60:40And Ferguson is like I mean Ferguson's going to play a bunch.
60:43And you know, because Flournoy is the is the wide receiver three there, you know, his playing time is actually going to be
60:51he'll he'll be the wide receiver three, but you know, they're not going to be in 11 all the time and you don't have
61:00the ability to really pass Pickens or >> No.
61:04>> or Lamb. Last year he had 45% route participation over 15 games. Turpin was at 39%, Tolbert was at 51.
61:13So, you know, he should consolidate some, but I think he he's probably still like in the 60-ish range, maybe he's 65.
61:22Um which is kind of fairly typical for like a slot. It not that I don't even think he Does he play slot?
61:29>> They mostly move CD inside.
61:30>> They mostly move CD inside, that makes sense. Okay. Um but like >> played there He played there a little bit more than I 35%
61:36>> played 36% of his snaps in the slot. So >> He'll He'll kick in there, but see Pickens doesn't usually go in there.
61:41It'll be him and CD bouncing bouncing back and forth.
61:44>> Right. Right, but he'll play like a slot receiver level because >> His role, yeah.
61:49>> The slot Yeah, CD comes in the slot so I see him Yeah, so But that's With him I'm like most of the time I'm getting
61:59a guy that's not really adding a lot because he's the fourth target on his team.
62:06Um and you know, his target per route run was was 19% last year, which isn't terrible, but it's not great. Uh so he
62:15wasn't really flashing as like this this undercover target earner. Ferguson was at 20%, um Pickens was at 22, Lamb was at
62:24Lamb was at 25. So I mean, you know, he's got serious serious target competition from the receivers, but then also a tight end who can play, too. So
62:34I I don't mind him as far as like end of He's more like to me like a 19th, 20th round DraftKings guy than someone I've been
62:44really strongly considering in Underdog.
62:48Um I do like him more than like some of the other wide receiver threes out there.
62:54Like I like him more than like a Jalen McMillan, who I think is really under or really overpriced.
63:00>> Interesting.
63:01>> Yeah, I just have a really hard time with him.
63:04Um But you know, so there's other things I like less, but I'm I just I have a hard time with Flournoy. Like I
63:13want I I kind of get it.
63:15He's He's an ascending young player >> Yeah. on a good offense.
63:20>> I'm in.
63:21>> will also admit I liked him a little bit as a prospect. There was I think he was >> you did. You mentioned him. Yeah.
63:26>> I think he came up on our on our show.
63:28He It was but you want to talk about small school. Two years ago, he went to D1. Yeah, he went to D1 a D1 double A
63:33school but he was he's [snorts] all-time leading receiver, I believe, at at Semo.
63:37He was super efficient. Uh but again, it's it's D1 double A so it's it's hard to hard to to say and then he didn't do
63:42didn't do anything as a rookie and so but that's one of >> those like >> I definitely will admit to some some
63:48bias from time to time when you like the guy and then you're like, "Oh, we we see it we see it pop." But I also believe
63:54in, like you said, this is a young player like 19% targets per outrun in your first real NFL action alongside CD Lamb
64:01and George Pickens and stuff. It's not really a negative It's not a negative It's not a negative to me.
64:05>> Tolbert was at 13%. Jalen Tolbert was at 10. Like, you know, it's >> this is what they've been searching for
64:11and then so you add in I think that you're going to get some useful games even on 60 to 65% route participation
64:18because he's he's good enough or potentially good enough and the Cowboys, right, are definitely good enough. Like, you just run routes for the Cowboys and
64:27be okay and you'll probably score some fantasy points assuming Dak Prescott is healthy.
64:31And then like something I'm really trying to focus better on this year that I've done a bad job of is some of the contingent
64:38value even for like positions that we don't think of necessarily contingent value. Like, this is the Michael Wilson case. I'm not saying Ryan Flournoy is
64:44Michael Wilson but this is like and not just contingent value but like sort of chaos value, you know, where like for the Cardinals
64:51part of why Trey McBride was so awesome was everything went to [ __ ] dude. And they were just like we only got two guys
64:57to throw the football to.
64:58So Trey Mcbride, 15 targets a game.
65:00Michael Wilson, 12 targets a game, whatever. And and we're losing by 21 at halftime every every every game, you know, and like
65:07Flournoy is the wide receiver three on this team, right? So what I Do I want him or a guy who I'm paying for the
65:14routes on a shitty offense?
65:16Right? It's like you know, that's a that's a debate. I'm not saying there's a right side, but I'm saying this guy
65:21could maybe put up some useful games anyway.
65:24And if something the chaos shakes out in his favor, the upside just far exceeds cuz I'm I'm already paying for the
65:30routes on the other guy. I'm not really paying for it with him. And if something happens in his favor, the next thing you
65:35know, you got a guy who's just far far far better off than maybe a you know, like I said, these wide receiver twos
65:40wide receiver threes where we feel more confident in like the the routes and the target share.
65:44>> I said I liked him more than McMillan. I actually have McMillan ahead and not not even just ADP adjusted. So that's that's
65:50actually not true. But I think I think I like him more than Tes Law.
65:55I'll give you I'll give you that.
65:56>> him ahead of Tes Law and I don't even hate Tes Law. That's a good comparison though. Like I would take Ryan
66:01Flannigan, like if someone bet me fantasy points this year, Ryan Flannigan versus Tes Law and I I would take I would take Flannigan.
66:08>> Like I'm trying to mix in like a little Tes Law cuz he's he goes so much higher.
66:12He's an ADP of 165 and Flannigan's like 189. So Tes Law comes out actually the think of slightly behind.
66:21Yeah, we have Tes Law actually behind Flannigan in the ranks.
66:24So there you go. So that one that one I legitimately >> right now on Underdog is going at pick 168. He's the wide receiver
66:31four maybe the wide receiver three on the team. And and they also have George Kittle and Christian McCaffrey. And this guy goes and
66:38>> I like Sherfield a lot. I like Sherfield a lot more than Flannigan.
66:40>> But I'm but I'm but I'm but what's the difference?
66:44>> The difference is that Pearsall's not good.
66:48You know, he's he's maybe not horrible, but he's not good.
66:51>> Okay, so there's Jake Ferguson, right? Jake Ferguson is fine.
66:55>> Well, you Okay, you have Kittle coming off an Achilles tear.
66:59So you've got you've got the potential like >> Week one It's Week one. What about McCaffrey? What about Christian McCaffrey? Christian McCaffrey had 130
67:07had 130 targets last year. How many did Javonte and uh Malik Davis have? Not that. So, you got to take out Chris- Christian
67:14McCaffrey plays into this, too. So, even if George Kittle's worse and Ricky Pearsall's worse, Christian McCaffrey draws more targets than those other guys
67:19do.
67:20>> He did draw more targets. He turns 30 in the summer and they were talking about how I mean, his rushing numbers
67:26absolutely cratered and they're like they we got they're like we they utilize McCaffrey as their wide receiver one, but I don't think that's it's not like an
67:36ideal plan just in a vacuum even if he's like the best receiving running back of all time, which arguably he is.
67:42It's not great to have him as your wide receiver one. So, they bring in Mike Evans and then they spend the 33rd
67:47overall pick on another receiver and now you actually have a three wide receiver set that you feel okay about. I mean,
67:53most of us don't feel great about that three wide receiver set, but they seem psyched. So, so fine.
67:59Um and then you have Kittle coming off you know, the Achilles tear. So, I think and then Christian Kirk, I mean, he was
68:05so washed last year and and also was in a a split with Noel who who didn't really impress. So, I think you know, you you talk about
68:14Stribling down the stretch, he could be the number two target on that team depending on how Kittle recovers. And we know with Kittle that
68:23sometimes it's like two targets. So, like over the course of the year, I would hope that Kittle is the number two target behind Mike Evans,
68:32but like Stribling could have his moments, you know, Stribling could pop up as like and and we know with Shanahan there's certain games where it's like,
68:39oh [ __ ] This is the game where they're just like they have this guy featured.
68:44You know, they this this particular type of of play really works against the defense they're facing and so we're going to see this guy kind of pop up for
68:53his game and pop up for his game in a way that I don't think we're going to see with Purdy and the Cowboys as
68:59long as everyone stays healthy.
69:00>> multiple times last year. That thing that you're describing, he did he did he did he did he did he did he did he did
69:04he did he did did that at the NFL level, and Aiyuk's dribbling has not done that at the NFL level. And then, we all agree
69:09that that was a crazy overpay. It's just Mike Kyle Shanahan Mike Shanahan just Kyle Shanahan being being Kyle Shanahan, right? He loves
69:17that guy, but he gets those guys wrong all the time. He just did it with Pearsall, who he just said stinks, and
69:22we all thought was a >> I think he stinks, but he he stinks in a way that's like and he is starting for them as an as an
69:28outside wide receiver.
69:29I also don't think I don't really get the they get this stuff wrong all the time narrative.
69:34Like, what's the evidence for that? Aiyuk was a hit. Deebo was a hit.
69:38>> on the reaches. Yeah, on the reach. They did the reaches wrong. JJ JJ did the whole thing on it. When when they stray
69:44really, really far away from consensus, they've been wrong basically every single basically every >> Aiyuk was a stray from consensus. I and
69:51and I mean, leaving aside that he, you know, eventually quit on the team.
69:55He Yeah, he's like >> Is he a hit?
69:58>> Yes.
70:00Yes. In what way?
70:01>> A good season. One good season. Is a hit.
70:04>> And then, getting run off the team next season. That's how this works. Aiyuk was was like a fifth or sixth round pick
70:09following his rookie season. He scored like What do you over 10 touchdowns?
70:13>> So was Pearsall.
70:15And we just said he stinks.
70:17>> He does stink.
70:18>> So then, how can he be bad car target How can that How can that be bad target competition for Stribling if Aiyuk was a
70:24hit and Pearsall was the same thing as a Right? That's That's what I'm That's what I'm saying. I'm just stacking the
70:29two up and saying one guy has done this at the NFL level and has close enough to the same level target competition, and
70:36another guy hasn't done this at the NFL level, and everybody hated him as a prospect, and now, just because Kyle Shanahan took him 33rd overall, we're
70:43anointing him all of this stuff that he hasn't necessarily really earned. And what track record has Kyle Shanahan shown besides Brandon Aiyuk, who they
70:51now ran out of town and had one good season? You know, it's it's it's difficult for me to wrap my head around
70:56I was taking Stribling when he was like super duper cheap and honestly I think he's still cheap.
71:00>> still super duper cheap. He's still totally cheap.
71:03>> He's still totally fine. But like we I I don't I don't follow the target competition part of it cuz if you stack up the
71:11target like other than George Kittle was hurt for sure. But like if I stack up Mike Evans and Ricky Pearsall and and
71:18then like playing time, so who's coming off the field right from a route participation perspective? Whose routes are are you taking?
71:24>> At the end of the year at the end of the year you got you got the potential for him to be
71:28playing over Pearsall and Pearsall's down in that Did you like him in the 70th percentile?
71:33>> No. No, I mean he >> No, you're just you're just riding with the draft capital. I get that makes sense.
71:39>> I mean he's very Pearsall-esque.
71:41You know, it's it's it's similar to like it's Jaylen Reagor was more productive as a as an underclassman but come kind of
71:49came off a a pretty disappointing final season as well. Rashee Rice had like major major holes in his profile. You know,
71:57he's he's producing down the stretch.
71:59Pearsall uh got work at the end of the year. He spiked in week 17 for 28.7 PPR points, which is you know, we love to see it.
72:09>> Yeah.
72:10>> He was a clear target in my opinion that year and I don't think Pearsall's good and I didn't think he was good then. I
72:16just thought he was the first round pick of the 49ers and they probably get a look at him at the end of the year.
72:23And that was when they had a actually pretty crowded wide receiver room with with Aiyuk and Deebo and in healthy Kittle and everything. So but at the
72:32same time you're like, yeah, they'll probably get a look at their first round pick by the end of the season. They were
72:35going to take Stribling in the first round and traded down so they didn't look like such [ __ ] >> [laughter]
72:40>> And that only that talking about your all-time backfires. They've gotten more grief. They should have just [ __ ] taken him in the first round.
72:47>> Yeah. So >> [laughter] >> I mean like it's it's kind of the same we're re-rolling Pearsall, yeah, but he actually has a path to playing time cuz
72:56he gets to play against Pearsall as opposed to like entrenched decent starters. And uh and he's like 30, 40 picks cheaper
73:04than Pearsall was when he didn't have a clear path to playing time because we're just like extra extra convinced that Shribling isn't good. But I'm not
73:12convinced. Like I from these from this type of guy like it's like bet on draft capital, but so many of these other guys are also just
73:21bets on draft capital, but like they also like happen to have a 38% dominator rating in their like age 23 season and Shribling was at like
73:3025. That doesn't move the needle that much for me. Like it just doesn't. And also like I can win if he's Chase
73:36Claypool, I [ __ ] win. Right. I win if he's Chase Claypool. I make so much money if this guy's Chase Claypool at
73:43these prices because he's he's productive in the rookie season and then it's oops, he's a bust. If he's Kelvin Benjamin, oh no, he sucks actually, but
73:52we gave him a bunch of targets as a rookie. I make money. Like to me that's that's and it's at the end of the
73:58season, too. Like the I don't it's not like some random thing that pops up.
74:02It's like I mean, to some extent it is, but like the it's more my fire is at least a little concentrated towards the end of
74:08the season when they're more likely to be getting a look at this guy. Yep. So, that that part of it I really really
74:14like, too. I mean, you're right that Flounory has has popped up. So, I you know, he he could do that again.
74:23But I think it's it's just like it's like a little bit more here and there, I think, than what you might get with Shribling where like down
74:31the end of his rookie season, he's kind of making like a campaign that like, yes, I'm worthy of this pick and they're
74:38kind of excited about what they're seeing and they're like, yeah, let's give this guy a little bit more run.
74:41Let's put more on his plate. This is the growth that we've been looking for from this guy. You're now at the end of Ricky
74:47Pearsall's third season and it's like kind of clear it's not what you were hoping it was. So, you maybe start to
74:52look at what you have in another guy.
74:54Mike Evans is also an older player who has struggled with hamstring injuries non-stop. He might I mean, you know, talk about contingent value.
75:01I'd rather bet on contingent value behind Mike Evans than CD Lamb favorite >> part of the whole thing. I agree with
75:08the late season everything else that you said, too. But, I think that Pearsall hasn't exactly been a picture of health.
75:14Neither has Neither has Christian Kirk.
75:16So, like how it how it happens I to me, I do care a little bit more that I I don't think Stribling is is good. Um
75:26And here's another thing that maybe I'm anchoring to that as well. We've had this track this run, right? Um that Stribling is just sort of Well, I think
75:34Caleb Douglas is the cherry on top of this uh uh part. [snorts] But, like right?
75:39Every year we get the these guys who are not productive with not very good prospect profiles going way too early.
75:46And and it's very much recency biased by me, but from Keon Coleman to I I mean, I guess is QJ I don't know
75:53what what >> you know, Coleman had some stuff in his profile where you go, well, maybe.
75:59>> Well, >> Yeah, but that's the thing. When I have to go, well, you know, it's the What's the the girl the the Jim
76:04>> Yeah, the kombucha >> Yeah, exactly. So, uh it's when I have to do that for the guy, I don't I don't
76:10So, you know, Keon and Matthew Golden and right and and uh I'm forgetting AD Mitchell and Quentin Johnston and all these guys who are like, trust me. Just
76:20trust me. He's good. And I'm like, show me show me where. Like, show me specifically where. So, it's maybe that I'm
76:29I'm really uh happy that we had this conversation, actually, because it's maybe that I'm over-indexing on like I'm so sick of just being like, yeah, maybe
76:36I'm wrong and you guys are right about all these guys. It's There tends to be a guy and maybe Stribling does fall into
76:42this category where it's a little murkier as opposed to like I'm like I K'Neal sucks. I'm like I'm like this this dude sucks. Like he's not good and
76:50then he isn't good, but the NFL just keeps saying trust me, bro. He's he's good. And it feel when Shanahan does
76:56this and then goes on this [ __ ] media campaign that was even more embarrassing than the >> Gold helmet. We put a gold helmet on
77:02him, dude. Do you know what that means?
77:04>> Uh uh also he passed through my highlight tape filter uh which is the most obscene thing I've ever heard. So
77:10anyway, like I said, I I think it's very possible that I'm over indexing a little bit on that. And also to be fair, I was
77:15hammering Shribling. I haven't been drafting him quite as much now, but I'm still going to keep drafting him. So I wasn't trying to make it an
77:21anti-Shribling case. I was trying to make it uh just like a I think Flannigan fits into this exact mold of type It's
77:28not the same thing.
77:29>> My Shribling thing is like he's just Denzel Boston, but like we all were comfortable with Denzel Boston and we're not comfortable with this guy. Like if
77:38Denzel Boston's profile like also sucks.
77:40>> Yeah.
77:40>> Like it's just and and like he's like Denzel Boston was like big and fast and then you're like, "Oh, but he let's not run a 40 though. Let's
77:48not do that."
77:50>> And if you look at the profile, it's just like a It is definitely in that middle ground, but it's like oatmeal.
77:55You're like, "This is not the worst [ __ ] I've ever seen, but I'm not really excited to >> And that's where I'm like if you give to
78:01me the way I view this stuff is like if you give me two profiles and neither profile like really pops, like here's
78:07all the stuff that we know is predictive and like from an analytical perspective.
78:11And this one's better, but neither pops.
78:15Give me the guy who was drafted first in a better situation.
78:17>> Yeah.
78:18>> I don't really care. I'm not going to like break the tie on yeah, but okay, when you look at his junior season, it's
78:23actually slightly better. Like no, dude.
78:25>> 1.2 points higher on his contested points higher on his contested catch rate or whatever. Yeah, it's >> Yep, agreed. Drafted first, better
78:31situation, give me that guy. And guess what? He's cheaper. So So that's that's thing if I would I'm so sick of talking
78:38about Stribling. Like I wish he was going to like pick 115 and people liked him so I just but he goes so cheap.
78:43>> Stribling's [clears throat] spot just to be funny.
78:45>> [laughter] >> You heard it here first.
78:51>> I would deserve it.
78:52>> [laughter] >> That's baby.
78:52>> deserve it.
78:53>> That's baby because they dropped him.
78:55>> They dropped Stribling.
78:57>> He's he's a good pick.
78:59>> I'm not going to >> pick. He is a good pick.
79:01>> And I'm but I'm really happy that it just happened. It's funny how those things happen. I it literally had no
79:05intention of even ever saying the name De'Shawn Stribling on here. But just as you start to run right right I'm starting to run through like like why I
79:12think Ryan Flournoy at pick 190 or whatever is a good pick. I'm like Calvin Ridley and Jerry Jeudy and Deebo Samuel
79:18not on an NFL team and Isaac TeSlaa and Brandon Aiyuk who sucks and also is like maybe going to be a commander and you
79:24know, is buddies with Jayden Daniels and Trey Tucker and Jalen Nailor and a cornerback and Stefon Diggs and you know, and you run down this list and I'm
79:32like I'm not even trying to [ __ ] on any individual name. I'm just saying sign me up for 65% route participation
79:39with contingent value on the Dallas Cowboys when this dude has shown me that he can put up big games and is like
79:43maybe an ascending talent. Maybe he's not, but I'm not paying to find out. You know what I mean? But that's also
79:49Stribling. That's the Stribling case too, right? You're paying a little bit more like Denzel Mims better be like some kind of good.
79:55You know what I mean? But like Stribling at pick 170 and Flournoy at pick 190 like I don't know if they're not that
80:01good. Do I care? Tyquan Thornton wasn't good and he had big games. Marvin Mims sucks ass. He's been kicked down to like
80:06wide receiver six on his own team and he had big games. Like I'm not paying for those anymore and and but but there is
80:12upside to like oh [ __ ] Stribling's actually good. He's like the wide receiver one on the Niners. Oh Flournoy's actually good. He's not
80:17burying CD and George Pickens.
80:20But he has like 400-yard games next year. You know, something like that.
80:24Like the upside is real on these guys and I'm not paying to find it.
80:29>> Yeah, I think the upside the contingent upside part of it is is maybe what I'm not high enough on with Flournoy. I I
80:37think my my issue with Flournoy, I think and I think I'm right about this part is like that in most like when you head into
80:46like are you actually like going to be playing Flournoy in any kind of weekly format? You know, like you're you're not
80:52I'm not talking redraft. I'm talking about like are you you know, like DFS or anything like that?
80:57>> I've played far >> [laughter] >> I've played worse. All right, fair.
81:09Fair.
81:12>> Maybe I just have a hard time seeing where I'm actually playing this guy unless it becomes I now to your point
81:19like the contingent value I might be playing him, you know, if things is out. But in in like the the everyone's healthy situations, that's
81:28where I'm like, I don't know, man.
81:30>> And I'm not trying to also over index on this one, but we would have said the same thing about Michael Wilson or whatever. Michael
81:36Wilson wasn't the wide receiver three.
81:37I'm not I'm not I'm not saying that. He also went higher. But like and Michael Wilson sucked until Marvin Harrison got
81:43hurt and all everything went to [ __ ] on the Cardinals. And all of a sudden we were like, what the [ __ ] Why is this
81:46guy the wide receiver one every every single week? And Flournoy showed a little bit of talent like that where again, it is like
81:54give me something when I like I you're in you know, we used to talk about like the avoiding zeros and like the just
82:00like give me live bodies at the ends of drafts and then just like sort of roll the dice and see what happens. That's
82:05where he fits to me is like A, there might be some talent upside here.
82:08He's young and you know, he was young enough and the offense is obviously awesome.
82:12So like look, wide receiver threes Kavontae Turpin had multiple long touchdowns or whatever last year. Like happens sometimes when you're just
82:18on the field on a really good offense, which he will be even if it's not 100% route participation. Then then you add
82:25in like NFL seasons are utter chaos, right? I I don't maybe the Cowboys defense is so bad I only need 65% of the
82:33routes or maybe George Pickens goes full George Pickens cuz he's on a franchise tag, right? Or CD gets hurt or which
82:39seems to happen very frequently. You know, Jake Ferguson is cooked. Whatever.
82:43I'm just making [ __ ] up, but you know, like most of the time it's stuff we can't predict. And so if I can if I can
82:48get this foundation and then you have the contingent value. I I value that that I value that maybe a little bit
82:54more than you do. And you like value the you said like the just give me the dude who went 33rd overall to the to the
83:0049ers. Even though I agree with you, I like him. It's just like as we were framing that that conversation, I think
83:06the chaos element is something I'm a little bit more focused on.
83:09>> And Stripling used to cost what Flournoy cost and now he's up into the 160s. So it So it's a bit of a different.
83:16>> Also, we could just draft He's gone. We could just draft both of them.
83:19>> You can just draft both of them now.
83:20>> If we're getting these quarterbacks, right? If we want Mahomes and Herbert, we want Bowers and and Shannon, we've got to get some cheap guys.
83:27Somewhere and I think what we're outlining is there are some of these wide receiver bodies like the Raiders you mentioned before. Like there's some
83:33wide receiver bodies back here.
83:36>> It It wouldn't be uh you know, one of our one of our streams in a in a in a winning Bestball Mania
83:42team um if we didn't tout and uh and select a rookie wide receiver. Cuz we're still the streak's alive, man. A rookie wide
83:50receiver has mattered to the success of every single winning BBM team.
83:57Uh hit the lineup in week 16 or 17.
84:01Right? Luther Burden.
84:03I mean, this he's one of the the most mattering.
84:05>> Yep.
84:05>> Um it was Burden, then Pearsall 2 years ago.
84:09Reed >> Mhm.
84:11>> was uh was a key part of uh of Reed's winning lineup.
84:15Um and then I had Tyquan Thornton who hit who hit my lineup, man.
84:22>> Hey, I I was I drafted Tyquan Thornton last year and there were a couple of fun There were a couple of fun
84:27fun moments last year >> Liam had Homerun.
84:31>> Yep.
84:32>> And then KJ Hamler helped Hurzig get through I believe week 16 not in week 17.
84:38>> rookie? Is it Hamler or Tyquan? Who's the worst guy?
84:41>> I think Thornton.
84:42Easily.
84:44But I mean it literally was part of my winning lineup, so you know.
84:49It counts. Um I'm going to say Mecole Hardman here.
84:53>> Ooh, that's a fun one.
84:55>> Mecole Hardman is in a uh as as you promised we probably would talk a little bit about structure. Uh even though
85:02we're just talking about players, but Mecole Hardman is in that kind of uh early seventh round range now.
85:10Just barely technically, you know, 72.6 ADP, so he's you know, just technically a seventh round pick.
85:18And I in drafts, that's where I'm getting him. I'm pushing him around the the turn.
85:25Uh sometimes I take Hurts.
85:28And sometimes I take Hardman and Maye and Hurts are available and I might have an like an AJ Brown team and then I grab
85:34Hardman and it's like, all right, give me you know, if I'm at the at the two hole you take your pick of of Maye and Hurts.
85:41Hopefully you don't take both and leave me the other guy.
85:44That's a tactic that's worked well for me. Um I did lose Maye the other the other time when I the other day when I
85:49did it and and I got Hurts, but I think it's fine. It hurt that one. It did hurt. Yeah, I was I was a little sad,
85:55but ultimately I was like, look if I take Maye, he probably goes Hardman Hurts and then I'm I think I'm I'm more
86:01sad, so I get the stacked Hurts Hardman uh which is really fun. Uh you can you know, you can kind of play that both
86:09ways depending on on the need of that particular team quarterback or receiver, but uh Tyson Jordan Tyson, I I like taking
86:17him, but he goes earlier and in a range where hey, if you need a if you need a running back and it's the late
86:28fifth, early sixth round Tyson becomes a little bit of a a difficult click if that's if you if you got to play to the position that you
86:36need more before the running backs got like really change a tier.
86:41And dra- it it's drastic. It's not quarterback >> but it's but it's very drastic.
86:46>> It's drastic. So, you go that's a that's a that's a tough one. You know, if if Tyson's there in the middle of the
86:52sixth, I'm so happy. I just I'm just like thank you because I don't really have to think about it so much.
86:59But that's not technically where he goes. He's he's got a an early sixth round ADP. A lot of times he's gone by
87:05the middle of the sixth. Lemons there.
87:08If you need if you're like, I only have two wide receivers. I pushed wide receiver three to the sixth I can grab
87:14McKai Lemon and I kind of like kind of bails me out a little bit. It's so nice.
87:19And then I mean you're in a position too where you're look like wide receiver four in the seventh and it's McKai
87:23Lemon. That feels comfy. It's like it's kind of unlocking stuff where the other part about this and why he's like the the guy of of a position where
87:34there's actually a a number of guys I'm excited to take fairly early.
87:38But the reason I pick him is I'm not sure this ADP lasts where I know that we all know >> AJ Brown's getting traded on June 1st.
87:47>> thing in best ball. This is my favorite thing in the whole of all of it. But I'm telling you McKai Lemon's going up.
87:54>> [laughter] >> That's facts. It's a stone cold lock.
87:56Bet take out a second mortgage and bet your life on it. There's nothing more certain than us double counting news in
88:02the best ball market every time.
88:04>> [laughter] >> I'm telling you May 31st to to wherever McKai Lemon just to take the love then probably drops from now
88:13till till the 31st.
88:15>> for sure.
88:17>> And then on June 1st, you know, the Patriots or whatever are trading for AJ Brown this deal. It might It might not be the Patriots, it might
88:24be someone else, but someone's got a deal in place. They're announcing it on the 1st. It's official the 1st. The key
88:30thing is it has to It can only be official the 1st the way the contract stuff works.
88:34And AJ Brown's been traded.
88:37Mccoy Lemon's going to go up.
88:38And you know, I I'm not like usually trying to like make the CLV thing like a key part of what I'm doing.
88:45>> Yeah.
88:45>> Uh ultimately it doesn't really matter.
88:48It's what matters is the guys who score points, but Lemon, I I think he's an awesome price.
88:54I think he's going to score more points than this price uh would would normally uh you know, come with. So, let me get as much as I can while I can.
89:03Make hay while the sun shines, right?
89:05Let me get Mccoy Lemon here, you know, make make Mccoy Lemon another lemon. Make No, that doesn't work. Make Make Mccoy lemonade out of
89:14>> We're on I'm on I'm on I'm on to this.
89:16Also, he he would not be interested in that. He would want it like a demonic nickname cuz he is an insane person.
89:24Mccoy Lemon is an absolutely insane person and I love it. He He is already checking the boxes of What did Danny say
89:31about the wide receivers or whatever the the quote he has about, you know, deep basically, you know, wide receivers being being deep, you know, quarterbacks
89:37or this, running backs or wide receivers, whatever.
89:39>> Yeah.
89:39>> It's so good >> I think he might say something like the juice is worth the squeeze.
89:44>> Yes, 100% >> [laughter] >> and straight deadpan into the camera like this.
89:50Like and just he he would be >> Everyone's uncomfortable.
89:53>> Yes, and I mean Dontavian Wicks is Dontavian Wicks. Goddard has taken Goddard has taken a a step back and they have like Devonta
90:01Smith can't replace all of what AJ Brown is is doing. I I I Mccoy Lemon as the I I actually had a Tyson Lemon Tate but
90:09I'm I'm like a you know me I'm I'm like a swing for the fences a bit more type guy like I also
90:14admit that like I think Tate has the highest floor. So if you were like drafting for for floor I would probably
90:18put Tate one and Lemon two and Lemon's probably two in any way that I would that I would phrase it.
90:25Um but like he's just a baller and we're getting a discount we're getting a discount on an awesome first round wide receiver with very
90:34clear path to volume. AJ Brown is leaving.
90:37I'm just as concerned as everybody else is about the Eagles like pass rate and Jalen Hurts and all this kind of stuff
90:43but like it's it's like the Fanning thing. Like at these prices why do I give a [ __ ] Right? It's like the Tribble thing. At
90:49the price why do I care about the issues when at this price? It doesn't matter.
90:53Like just give me that prospect at that at that price. Like whatever. Fine. I'll deal with the results.
91:01>> This is also like a big time sweet spot for rookie wide receivers in terms of ADP that we don't always get anymore.
91:11You know like we had for Marvin Harrison um and Malik Nabers we had to pay a lot more right?
91:19Obviously Nabers still paid that off but I mean Harrison was a big old bust uh when he was going in the early
91:25second. You know we it is possible to overpay for rookie wide receivers but uh Brian Thomas and Ladd McConkey were kind
91:33of right in this early seventh round range.
91:35>> Yeah.
91:36>> Big big hits there.
91:38Um Zay Flowers was I believe in like the eighth. That was a he paid off quite nicely.
91:45Um Quentin Johnston was in the same range and that was that was horrible but >> Nothing has a hundred nothing has a
91:51hundred >> Nothing was at yeah the same but the same the same ladder I know he's not a rookie but for like sort of all intents
91:56and purposes I always thought if like Jamo was in that range too and like he sort of was a functional rookie. You
92:02know what I mean? Uh and so it's like that >> CD Lamb was in this general range and that was very expensive at the time, but
92:08>> Right. At the time we were like, "Holy this is crazy for CD." And we had all the concerns, right? Oh, you know,
92:13cuz Amari was there and Gallup was there and and they had good tight ends and it was like, "How many he's just just going
92:18to play a slot? How many" And it's like stop worrying about all of that. He's an amazing wide receiver prospect in the
92:24seventh round or whatever. Just just stop. Full stop.
92:28>> Right. So, I mean these guys I mean I think Yeah, Garrett Wilson was much cheaper.
92:33Jefferson was was was cheaper. We we don't get >> pick 100. It's crazy.
92:39>> We don't get like the same like, you know, discounts we used to, but this is still you know, it reminds me of like the the
92:47Bryan Thomas and and you have Vlad types of bets from a couple years ago.
92:52>> It's very Bryan Thomas-y where you could sort of nitpick the player. Like you everybody agreed he's a good prospect. I
92:57nitpicked him a little bit more. I still don't know where I stand on that. If I'm in the I'm in the middle between a W and
93:02an L, I guess. The first rookie year was the biggest L you could have possibly take and then second year was
93:08maybe not so good.
93:09>> purposes, that's all I care about, you know?
93:11If Kadarius Toney doesn't pay off a second round ADP next year, I don't give a [ __ ] Or late first round ADP.
93:16>> the Thomas is going I love the point you said of like, "Give me Chase Claypool. I don't give a fuck." You know what I
93:21mean?
93:22>> Yeah.
93:22>> Be Chase Claypool. I'll win I'll win a lot of money if you're if >> Yeah. [laughter] Like so, who cares? I'm not trying to be
93:29I'm not I'm not trying to >> have to be repeatedly right at all the future prices.
93:33>> Yeah.
93:34>> Exactly. You're not playing this is not this is not >> This is not dynasty. This is not you're not playing in NFL GM. You're you're not
93:40playing Madden. You're playing one singular year of especially best ball specifically. Like you don't have to know when to start the dude. He doesn't
93:47have to do it in week one. He doesn't have to do it in the first month. Like he doesn't, you know, like there's so
93:51many different ways to win and I think like sort of the the But, the view that we're taking on a lot
93:56of these guys is is is that.
93:59Uh and I think that's really important.
94:00So, Pat, what we're going to do is we're going to We both have a hard stop. Uh I know you have another show to go to. I
94:07have something to attend as well. We're going to come back next week and we're going to finish We're going to do
94:12running backs and some flexes and maybe a couple of uh honorable mentions.
94:17Next week is what is what we'll do to finish this. Uh if that if that works for you, just because I know we're
94:22running up against it. And the people will really, you know, if the zero >> minutes if you want to try to squeeze it
94:28in.
94:28>> Let's let's push it to to next week. And if if we can't fill out a full show, I'm sure we can riff on some things next
94:33week. But, if if we don't give the proper time to running backs >> Eric, we can fill we can fill out a full
94:38show.
94:38>> I know. I know. We did like 3 hours on Harold Fan in last year.
94:41>> Let's do one extra We could just do two flex wild cards and >> We'll do running backs and two flexes uh
94:47next year and it'll be the next week and it'll be the exact same. But, if we don't give the running backs their due,
94:52the people will be like, "Yeah, these again." They They spent the whole show talking about quarterbacks and wide receivers and and
94:59whatever.
95:00>> Literally everything but running backs.
95:02>> We did this on the rookie show, by the way. Do you remember this? This is exactly what happened Not not not this
95:07year, of course, cuz last year we did the rookie show and we started out talking. We were like, "Let's go position by position." And we
95:13went quarterback, wide receiver, tight end. And we were like at 3 and 1/2 hours.
95:18And we were like, "Fuck, we got to do a different show for the running backs, or this is going to be 6 hours."
95:23And we pretty much We pretty much did that again today. So, anyway, that's part one, quarterbacks, wide receivers, tight ends. And we will come back for
95:31you guys next week and hit some running backs and some flex options, our favorite picks. But, hopefully this helps. Pat has to leave in a couple
95:39minutes, but I know Well, you have a show with Sam now. I saw the >> This will be out after that. You can go
95:44back and watch me and me and Sam Sherman are doing That's Fair every Thursday at 5:30 Eastern.
95:51Um so, yeah, check that out. By the time you see this, that will be up. Yeah, and doing a Monday show at at a
96:0211:00 my time, so that's 2:00 Eastern with Coach Speak Index.
96:07Every Monday.
96:09And I'm doing a mailbag show at 6:00 Eastern every every Tuesday. So, much more consistent streaming schedule over in the Legendary Upside YouTube
96:17channel.
96:18Yeah.
96:20Check it all out.
96:21>> So perfect you said that because I will just add also a more consistent uh schedule for me Tuesdays through Fridays
96:29every single day 11:00 a.m. Eastern live on the Spike Week channel. So, you can come hang out in the mornings, draft
96:34some teams with me, talk some ball with me, and then when Pat wakes up you can come join Pat.
96:41And I kid, obviously he has a child. But but in the afternoons in the afternoons and evenings you can head over to
96:47Legendary Upside and of course hang out with us on Saturdays. So, that'll do it for this week. We'll catch you guys next
96:54week with some running backs. I promise we'll talk about some running backs.
96:57>> But let's start with the flexes and then we'll pick wide receivers and then >> starting with flexes.
97:01>> [laughter] >> See how long we can go.
97:03>> See, we'll we'll do the same schedule time so we have the exact, you know, 90 to 100 minutes >> [music]
97:09>> and and see if we can leave about 10 minutes for the running backs at the end. But [music] we'll catch you guys
97:14next time. Peace.
97:18>> [music]