Legendary Upside Source

Legendary Upside artwork

VideoFrom Legendary Upside

Players That Unlock Each Draft Strategy in 2025

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this video and kept the full transcript here for context.

2 hr 32 min

Duration

Estimated from transcript

Aug 10, 2025

Published

Sun, August 10, 2025

20

Player insights

18

Players mentioned

Topics

RJ HarveyBrock BowersDalton KincaidDont'e ThorntonGeno SmithGeorge KittleJ.K. DobbinsJahmyr GibbsJoe BurrowJosh AllenJustin JeffersonKeon ColemanKhalil ShakirLamar Jackson

Player analysis

Player insights

20

Brock Bowers

PositiveProjection32:33

Elite tight end with strong target-earning potential; the source states 'Brock Bowers is my elite tight end. He's gonna he's going to smash' and describes him as 'an unbelievable target earner who's going to be the engine of an entire passing offense,' positioning him as a high-upside tight end despite being compared to Lad at similar ADP. The source has significant portfolio allocation to Bowers, emphasizing his draft value and synergy in stacking strategies. When paired with Justin Jefferson (acquired slightly after ADP due to hamstring concerns) or Jahmyr Gibbs, the combination creates strong portfolio construction. Bowers' tight end eligibility and production relative to draft cost make him a core building block in multiple draft archetypes. Classified as one of three elite tight ends for 2025 draft strategy; distinguished as a second-year superstar prospect with elevated status compared to Trey McBride.

Dalton Kincaid

PositiveRole23:37

The source is more willing to leave the light on for Kincaid as a difference-making fantasy asset, primarily because he has tight end eligibility. With Khalil Shakir injured, Kincaid naturally takes over intermediate slot work that Shakir would have handled, giving him a clearer path to volume. The source contrasts this favorably with Keon Coleman's uncertain ability to beat coverage on the outside, positioning Kincaid as a more reliable volume target in the Bills offense.

Dont'e Thornton

PositiveRole35:29

Dante Thornton is presented as an optional stack component with Gino Smith, to be pulled up 'every once in a while' as an alternative to Jacobe Meyers in back-door draft construction. The source acknowledges that reaching for Thornton (e.g., taking him at 175 instead of his typical 185 ADP) is not a draft-losing move and fits within the Gino Smith ecosystem.

Geno Smith

PositiveBreakout33:24

Gino Smith is identified as a genuine breakout candidate from a cheap quarterback perspective, with a track record of producing as a 'window quarterback' (high-upside, low-cost option). The source argues Smith should have been drafted in the 10th–11th round but was instead treated at Sam Darnold/Baker Mayfield tier pricing. Smith created the template for this archetype with the Seahawks, and the source notes the largest discrepancy between his personal ranking and ADP is Gino, with only 7% ADP despite being significantly undervalued. He enables clean back-door stacking with Dante Thornton and Jacobe Meyers. The source also views Gino as underrated in fantasy circles despite being a 'really good' real-life talent; perfect fit with Raiders' offensive weapons (Thornton, Bowers, Myers, Gentry) that provide field-stretching ability; even if pass catchers underperform, the offense has complementary pieces that should help Smith's fantasy value. Additionally, Gino is a 'very fun punt quarterback' because pairing him with an elite tight end like Brock Bowers allows the drafter to 'take care of that' position early and still get a functional QB late.

George Kittle

PositiveValue42:27

Classified by the source as one of three elite tight ends for 2025 draft strategy alongside Brock Bowers and Trey McBride; positioned as a tier-1 option with established elite profile that warrants draft capital allocation at the tight end position.

J.K. Dobbins

NegativeRole5:48

Listed as the current starter for the Chargers backfield, but faces competition from R.J. Harvey, who has impressed in camp and with coaches. Benjamin Albright identified Dobbins as the clear starter, but the source frames the backfield as a situation where Harvey's strong camp performance and coaching impression position him for increased touches as the season progresses, particularly in the back half. This suggests Dobbins' early-season role may be threatened by Harvey's trajectory.

Jahmyr Gibbs

NegativeValue32:39

The source identifies Gibbs as a player he wants more exposure to but is currently underweight due to receiver-heavy draft construction. Gibbs is explicitly called out as 'one of the guys that scares me' in the sense that he's a premium asset the source wishes to accumulate more of; the concern is portfolio allocation, not talent or role. The source would 'love to have a giant bag of Gibbs' but acknowledges being slightly overweight elsewhere.

Joe Burrow

NegativeInjury37:02

Burrow's fantasy outlook is clouded by potential offensive line regression. Greg Rosenthal reported that Burrow has been complimentary of the Bengals defense while noting how difficult the defense has made life for the offense, specifically the offensive line, raising the question of whether the Bengals offensive line is 'back to being a serious problem.' The source draws a parallel to Burrow's ACL tear four years ago, which occurred because the offensive line was 'an absolute disaster,' suggesting concern that history may repeat if the line deteriorates further.

Josh Allen

NegativeProjection4:04

Josh Allen is cited as an example of an elite quarterback that drafters may prefer but cannot reliably acquire in every draft; his elite status makes him a target but his scarcity in drafts means teams must have contingency strategies for when he is unavailable.

Justin Jefferson

NegativeValue32:56

The source targets Justin Jefferson slightly after ADP, citing hamstring injury concerns as the reason for the discount. When paired with Brock Bowers in the same draft, this combination creates portfolio synergy that 'makes me so happy,' indicating strong perceived value at the adjusted price point. The hamstring context is treated as a temporary ADP depressant rather than a fundamental talent concern.

Keon Coleman

PositiveValue18:18

Second-round pick from 2024 with disappointing rookie season but attached to Josh Allen; the source has been continually getting higher on him over the draft cycle, and the market has followed. Projected to land between picks 85–100, positioning him as a wide receiver option for running-back-heavy drafters seeking upside. The source notes Coleman's 1.71 yards per route run in his rookie season was not as bad as his disappointing season label suggests, and emphasizes multiple paths to upside: potential for the Bills to throw more, Coleman taking a massive leap in year two, or even a Gabe Davis-style spike season if he simply runs all routes on a Josh Allen offense. He "just really pops off the screen at that price" and is getting a good price relative to other WRs in that range like Godwin and Jaden Higgins. Despite a wrist injury that derailed his late-season performance (yards per route run dropped to 1.55 in playoffs with time-sharing with M. Holland; playoff line: 1-for-5 vs. Ravens, 1-for-5 vs. Ravens again, 1-for-12 vs. Chiefs on 4 targets, 3 targets vs. Broncos), the source sees significant value if Coleman takes a leap. Before the injury, he showed strong production (4 for 125 yards, then 5 for 70 and a TD). The source believes Coleman has more star potential than Dalton Kincaid and if the prospect believers are right about his ability, there's "a ton of value in that at this price" with volume increases.

Khalil Shakir

NegativeInjury18:59

Suffered a high ankle sprain but Sean McDermott indicated he should be fine for week one, which the source found bizarre given Shakir's history of repeated high ankle sprains. The source expresses concern about the injury pattern, noting that Shakir's best skill—making people miss with the ball—is compromised by ankle issues. The source projects Shakir as most likely a good slot receiver role going forward, though acknowledges there may be slightly more upside than some perceive. The baseline expectation is that he functions as a slot receiver confined to that role rather than expanding outside.

Lamar Jackson

NegativeProjection4:04

Lamar Jackson is cited as an example of an elite quarterback that drafters may prefer but cannot reliably acquire in every draft; his elite status makes him a target but his scarcity in drafts means teams must have contingency strategies for when he is unavailable.

Marvin Harrison Jr.

NegativeUsage22:30

Harrison Jr. was splitting time with M. Holland down the stretch of last season, which contributed to Coleman's declining target share and opportunity. This workload split is cited as context for understanding Coleman's late-season regression and the difficulty in assessing whether it was talent-based or opportunity-based.

RJ Harvey

PositiveValue5:22

Primary unlock for robust running back draft strategy; available in early sixth round with strong camp performance and impressive coaching feedback. The source values Harvey for his week 17 upside trajectory rather than week 1 production, positioning him as a backloaded asset that allows roster construction around elite early-round backs while maintaining late-season scoring potential. Harvey is compared favorably to Chuba Hubbard for week 17 scoring—the source describes Harvey as a "slam dunk" for week 17 points, stating "it's not particularly close." Harvey fits exactly the needs of draft structures requiring every running back to make it count early and late in the season.

PositiveMatchup9:15

The source identifies RG Harvey as a slam-dunk recommendation for week 17 scoring advantage, describing the edge as "not particularly close." This positions Harvey as a strong late-season pivot with playoff-week upside.

PositiveValue10:00

The source identifies RJ Harvey as an unusual bet at his current draft price, easier to acquire than in a stronger running back class where he might be a fourth-round pick. Harvey is positioned as a key unlock for the robust running back draft strategy, fitting alongside Henderson as one of two guys available at value that make the strategy work. Currently the fifth-best running back on the Denver Broncos depth chart.

Romeo Doubs

PositiveBust37:48

Camp dominance likely inflated by weak Packers cornerback depth rather than genuine elite receiving talent. The source notes Doubs is a 'mid ass wide receiver' whose camp performance reflects poor corner quality (Bo Melton, a former wide receiver, is the second-string corner) rather than legitimate breakout transformation. The source is skeptical that 'Romeo Doubs did not turn into Randy Moss overnight,' positioning camp stats as unreliable indicators of real-world production.

Trey McBride

NegativeValue42:27

Classified by the source as one of three elite tight ends for 2025 draft strategy but positioned in the middle tier between Brock Bowers (second-year superstar prospect) and George Kittle (established elite); lacks the superstar prospect status of Bowers and the proven elite profile of Kittle.

Treylon Burks

PositiveValue40:05

Rookie wide receiver starting at X position from first day of mini camp; at ADP around pick 150, the source suggests he may still be undervalued given his efficient production on limited volume, strong draft capital, and role running every route on an exciting Raiders offense. The source is considering raising his ranking, indicating potential value at current ADP.

Full transcript

Episode Transcript

1,459

0:00We can and do debate the best draft strategies every single fantasy football summer. But whether you are an elite running back guy, a zero running back

0:11guy, an elite tight end guy, a punt tight end guy, or any other draft strategy, you still need to find the

0:18players that unlock those particular structures every single summer. And so today on the latest episode of Legendary Sickos, a legendary upside and spike

0:27week best baseball collaboration, myself, Eric Binfor and Pat Karine are going to dive into the players that we think unlock every single best ball

0:35strategy this year in 2025. And just a quick reminder cuz we're in the thick of fantasy football summer and particularly best ball summer. Just a few weeks left

0:45and if you are a legendary upside subscriber, you have access to 40% off of spike week. Take everything from Pat Karraine and his team, the sidekick, the

0:54rankings, all the strategy, and bring it on over to Spike Week. Grab the draft hacker, draft IQ, our rankings, marry them up, put it all together, and

1:01supercharge your best ball drafts. 40% off Spike Week with code legup for legendary upside subscribers. But enough of the housekeeping stuff. Let's get to

1:10the show.

1:31All right, Pat, we are back with another episode of Legendaries because I've gotten a bunch of questions. Uh, I told the folks Pat's a jet setter. He's

1:40flying to Miami. He's flying to New York. He's flying back to Southern California and everywhere uh in between.

1:47But we I told them we will be back and we are back today with I think what should be a pretty fun episode uh

1:53talking about the players that will unlock every draft strategy. So we we do a lot of debating in baseball world and

2:01fantasy football world pad about uh how many quarterbacks do we draft? Is it zero running back year or robust running back year or is hero running back the

2:10best strategy? Right? Should you ever draft an elite tight end? What the [ __ ] is an elite tight end? Right? We we

2:15waste a lot of breath talking about all of that stuff. We don't talk that much about, okay, you've decided it is zero

2:22running back. What players are the ones that like unlock that specific structure, right? We all have our different f players, but sometimes the

2:30best player uh for a certain team is dependent upon the structure that you're drafting. Um, and I like to dabble in

2:36all of the different structures, even though I have my personal favorites, and I you and I align on a lot of that. But

2:42uh I'm interested to see today what uh what we get into. We were joking right before just a minute ago before we went

2:48live that neither of us prepared all of our answers yet for this one. So the folks are going to get to see how the

2:53sausage gets made and and see us come up with our answers in in real time based on obviously a lot of drafts that we've

2:59done.

3:00>> I'm literally typing in some of the guys that I think I might want to talk about.

3:04Um deleted deleted a dude. No. Yeah. So this this is a fun one. Well, I mean, this is like the way we do all this

3:12stuff is we'll we'll just kind of talk through things and and often kind of I'll like change things that I was going

3:17to say based on based on ideas that we have as we go. So, yeah, this will be kind of a fun framework. Um,

3:25and yeah, we could be excited to kind of talk through who you have for these and and see if there's anything I'm missing.

3:32So, we put um I think this will be particularly fun because uh we're also mentioning before we went live, we haven't necessarily talked about some of

3:42these. So, I I think you and I have talked about elite tight end quite a bit and we've certainly discussed elite

3:47quarterback a little bit. I don't think we've talked a ton about what happens.

3:51So, I think the when you punt at quarterback or you punt at tight end, um because those things can happen in a

3:59room and you didn't you may love elite tight end, but you don't get one in every single draft, right? You may love

4:04Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson and Jaylen Herz, but you just don't get them in every draft, nor do they make sense

4:08necessarily in every draft. So, what happens uh did uh did did some draft been doing some DraftKings drafting. I know you're quite quite familiar with

4:17the uh wild west of a DraftKings best baseball room. And sometimes if you uh you take that bait, they're they're holding that bait of that wide receiver

4:26that's a round and a half past ADP in the ninth round and you take that bait, they may take every goddamn quarterback

4:32before you get back on the clock in drafting. So, sometimes you get forced into some of these structures even if you didn't love them. But we're going to

4:39talk about uh of course uh some of our favorites like zero running back, a robust running back team, a hero running

4:46back team. Is there a difference between a hero running back team and something like a zero running back team in in

4:50terms of this player that's going to unlock that structure? We'll see. We'll get to it. And then elite quarterback, elite tight end, and punt quarterback

4:57and punt tight end. I don't really care what order uh we start in. Do you have a particular preference on which one of

5:04these you want to start with? No, I think we just kind of throw throw guys out and we can go from there.

5:09>> All right, go first. You you strikes wrote some names down. I want to hear I want to hear the first one.

5:14>> All right, I will start with robust running back and I know that you you agree with this one, so this will be

5:22pretty easy, but I'll say R.J. Harvey.

5:25Um, and the reason I'll say R.J. Harvey is, you know, we can we can kind of debate what exactly robust running back

5:31is, but you know, if I'm going to go with like four running backs through six rounds, and then, you know, that could

5:38be a hyperfragile build ultimately, but maybe I go to six running backs or something, so it's like technically a robust running back room. Um, it would

5:47be for RJ Harvey, maybe even with Tayvon Henderson as the as the fourth back, who I Yep. is one of the guys I strongly

5:55considered for this. But I'll say Harvey because we're thinking about, you know, why are you doing robust running back or why,

6:04you know, why would you go four through six? It's because you're getting a really good running back in six. It's not because I went four through five

6:10usually, right? So, I don't know if I've done that really at all. Um I I probably haven't done that once. It's that I get

6:17it's that I get the running backs at the 56 turn and I just grab Henderson and Harvey or you know maybe I I might do

6:25like a Connor and a Harvey if I'm if I'm just really not liking the wide receiver options there or whatever. But yeah,

6:30it's it's because Harvey's available in the sixth. He's been available in kind of the early sixth. I'm wondering if maybe

6:41he's a faller to close um the the you know the baseball season here because we're starting to hear reports that like

6:48Benjamin Albbright was saying oh it's clearly JK Dobbins is the starter and stuff and you know I maybe he is technically the

6:56starter from like a who gets the first carry perspective but we've it sounds to me like Harvey from everything I've read

7:02that Harvey's had a really strong camp has really impressed his coaches and >> is you know like on track for the type of role that

7:11we want for him in the back half of the season. The week one stuff just doesn't matter that much. And you know,

7:18especially if you have the kind of upside that he does down the stretch. In some ways, I almost like want Dobbins to

7:23kind of get 15 carries in week one or something and then like just like kind of keep let the rookie kind of learn and

7:30then maybe wear down a little and then Harvey can uh >> can come as the is the over the top hammer at the end.

7:36>> JK Dobbins has never gotten hurt. So, I don't know what you're talking about.

7:40It's not like JK Dobbins has has ever he's a picture of [ __ ] health in his NFL career. Uh I can't imagine he would

7:46wear down over the course of 17 years.

7:48And I I actually do like Dobbins as a pick. I I take a decent amount of Dobbins because I think he will get work

7:54early in the season and and maybe he holds on to it. But >> yeah, if if you're if you're going to

7:59kind of do a weird running back heavy structure, um it it's really nice to be able to get access to just a very strong

8:09path to week 17 upside at the position.

8:12So, it's not just, oh man, I hope these old vets stay healthy. It's like, "No, no, I've got I've got like Genty, Bree

8:19Hall, Trayvon Henderson, and R.J.

8:21Harvey." Like, I'm actually super backloaded. It's just that I'll score points throughout the season as well.

8:27It's also a super unique way to build, you know, a robust team. What do you What What does someone in the

8:34encyclopedia next to robust running back? It is not the sixth round rookie who is listed fifth on the initial depth chart in training camp. uh that is not

8:44the guy you think of from a robot, but like you said, if the season goes kind of how we think from a typical second

8:50round pick, really exciting prospect, they clearly love him. Um then you could be getting Yeah. like even better, you know, what would you rather have like

9:00this peaking young superstar rookie back who might be a first round pick next year or like look, I like this guy like

9:06this. He's a fine football player. Or like Chuba Hubard, you know, like Chuba is probably going to score more points in week one. Who would I bet to score

9:15more points in week 17? Easily slam dunk RG Harvey. It's not particularly close.

9:20And in a robust room, everybody builds it in the same ways, right? Derrick Henry, Saquon Barkley, Josh Jacobs, whatever. And it if I can have my cake

9:28and eat it too, I'm like, I am going to get the power, you know? I am going to get whoever, Gibbs or Bejan or JT or

9:34Achan or whatever. but then I'm going to also be able to be peing later in the season. I think that is something that

9:40people don't think about in terms of unlocking robust running back. They would be like, "Okay, tell me which 15th round wide receiver is going to be

9:47awesome, right? In terms of unlocking robust running back." That's what >> to me it's like why would I do this? Why

9:52would I Why would I use this strategy at all? It's cuz I'm getting, you know, an unusual bet at this price. Or maybe not

10:01super unusual, but I'm getting like a few of them. Like we get Henderson and we get Harvey. Yeah, there's two guys,

10:06>> you know, so it's easier to get Henderson and and easier to get Harvey as a result. I think in, you know, in a

10:13different running back class, these I think these guys, at least Henderson really might be up in the fourth round by now. You know, I think

10:21Hampton and Genty, like there's there's those guys that kind of keep like you're that type of drafter that you're going to spend a third round pick on a rookie

10:30running back or a fourth round pick on a rookie running back.

10:33you probably already have Hampton.

10:36Um, so yeah, I think the the running back lashes being really strong is something I'm kind of continuing to think about.

10:43>> Yeah, it's kind of interesting that everyone loves Amari and Hampton because now with this Naji [ __ ] you can protect

10:50him, right? He fits into everybody no matter what your if you're like us and you like this RJ Harvey type stuff, you

10:56also obviously like obviously like uh Hampton, but the running back bros like him now, too. So, he's like the ultimate riser cuz he fits everybody's

11:04>> Well, Slater got hurt, so now he's out for the year. So, that's uh I think the volume >> Bros will be a little bit more. It's

11:12back to more of a kind of a he's a really good running back bet >> to an extent. So, I don't know. Maybe

11:17maybe we'll get him at the 34 turn again.

11:20>> Hopefully, cuz that was that was a lot that was a lot more fun than having to decide between between him and Trey

11:25McBride. It's not quite as fun as between him and him and Mike Evans. It was a lot better when it was the Mike

11:31Evans >> uh conversation. Um I I mean I I I've talked at length about uh who do you which one do you do you prefer RJ Harvey

11:41straight up to Trayvon or I don't know if we've ever had that.

11:44>> I prefer Henderson at this point. I think Henderson was the better prospect.

11:48And um there's also like I think the um the like downside of Henderson is that

11:58or like some of the concern is that he's actually going to be in a you know James White role or whatever. I've seen that

12:06raised as like oh that's no that's no good you know but it's like hey rookie running back immediately gets like pure

12:14passing down stuff that's rare as hell.

12:16They don't trust those guys in pass protection like that like ever.

12:20>> Yeah. So that's like crazy bullish I think. And then like I don't know like if you're drafting these rookies with

12:29the idea that they're going to like keep the role they start with in week one.

12:35That means you think they suck basically. like, you know, like unless the guy's like drafted top five, top 10, they don't start week one with like the

12:46role they're ultimately going to have.

12:48>> Yeah.

12:48>> You know, >> and even then they don't always.

12:51>> Yeah. Right. So, they're going to grow throughout the year. And if he's starting with a locked in passing down role to begin with, like that that gives

13:00him I mean, Raandre, as we know, has major fumbling issues and he's had a better camp that way, >> but yeah, he started fumbling again the

13:09other day. So, >> he could he could just be an absolute smash. think he in a way I he probably has a higher I think he has a higher

13:18ceiling than Harvey if everyone stays healthy because I think I just have a more confidence that he's like awesome that he could you know if one of these

13:27it's like hey there was a rookie running back you know I kind of include Hampton in this there like there's a rookie

13:36running back outside of Genty who just like went nuclear because he's the truth I think I would just say give me

13:42Henderson I I I agree. I'm with you. Um he was my RB2 in the class. Um that was pre-draft and all that kind of stuff,

13:50but uh I mean I think he's that I think he's that good. I I think people have size concerns. Um as they do with

13:57anybody who if you're not 220, people are like people are like, "Oh, is he going to hold up?" And it's like I don't

14:03know. Look at the first two rounds of our best drafts. Most of those guys are not 225 or whatever. They're like,

14:10Kyron, Christian McAffrey, A Chan, Bucky, Gibbs, like it's a lot of small guys. So, I also did a a draft >> uh earlier in the summer. I was doing,

14:19you know, like uh Pete does the prompts and and stuff like that on like the randomizer. I was I was doing that, but

14:24the folks would submit like rules I would have to draft by, like here's a, you know, a theme, right? Draft as

14:29you're a running back team or or whatever. And one was uh like this a slow player draft. Nobody you draft could run faster than faster than I

14:38couldn't I couldn't draft anybody who ran faster than four five. So if you ran 449 you are off you are off limits. Wow.

14:44And at so at first you're like [ __ ] you know this is going to suck because I'm not going to have you know I'm gonna I'm

14:50gonna have Kirn and I'm going to have James Connor and you know I'm going to have all that. And then you start to go

14:54through the list of ride and you're just I'm just googling my ass off the whole time during the during the draft and

14:58like there's a lot of guys who didn't run f like CD Lamb didn't run in the 44s and you're like you start going through

15:05and I'm like >> do I overvalue speed you know and it's like if you do that with the run you're like do I really does he really need to

15:12be 220 because I'm like Jir Gibbs I just finally said [ __ ] it and put Jamir Gibbs at the 103 the other day in the in the

15:19rankings and I'm like like Jir Gibbs is not exactly Jerome Bettis and he's like my favorite first round running back to

15:27take like ever like you know you obviously don't want >> like you know the size matters no one's saying it doesn't you don't want to be

15:35Deuce Vaughn but like you know at a certain point like dude he's 205 205 to 210 like who gives a [ __ ] my favorite

15:42thing about Trayvon which I I know that you know this from was it yesterday or two days ago in Patriots camp he started

15:49a brawl in joint practices >> be during during pass protection and they kept all the beats are like Trayvon K is like is like violently angry at

15:59during pass protection uh stuff like he takes so much pride in being a stud in pass pro that he started a [ __ ] brawl

16:07during practice by trying to murder somebody in pass protection and then Vrabel dove into the fight and got all bloody in his face. It's like this is

16:17the greatest vibes ever in Patriots camp right now.

16:22I know. I was listening to Mike Reese break down the wide receiver stuff and then I first I had to listen to whether

16:28Vrael was basically the man or a hardo for for doing that.

16:34Oh, it was so good. And he's and he's like saying, you know, he I wanted everybody to know that I stand, you

16:38know, Trav I stand up for my guys. I stand up for Trayvon and all that. But it let it started because Trayvon's

16:45trying to literally murder people in pass protection >> uh drills. I think he rocks and I totally like if everyone's like if Naji is healthy I

16:54I think Trayvon has the easiest path to just with his talent and his the surrounding talent to just run run away

17:02with the whole thing and we look back and feel very stupid that he was going in the sixth round of drafts.

17:08>> Yeah. Yeah. No, he's a he's a great pick and as he moves up into the fifth I I I think he's a good pick. Like I hope I'm

17:15hoping can we get more of a a drum beat of he's a li he's a third down back.

17:19Let's I would prefer that he's only a third down back guys.

17:22>> I don't know why he's no more fumbles.

17:25No no no more no more fumbles because I don't I don't care if you fumble. Uh >> lost weight. Don't you know that he's

17:32he's slimmed down. He's going to be quick.

17:35>> That's true. Imagine Raandre is quick and RJ Harvey is the fifth best running back on the Denver Broncos right now.

17:42the perfect robust the perfect robust uh candidates. my robust uh candidate is somewhat in the ilk of the uh wide

17:51receiver where uh if you do choose to go the robust route like you know uh we talked about and then and maybe polish

17:59it up with RJ Harvey, you kind of need >> some upside from uh wide receiver and you may need to employ some of these

18:07other tactics like punting it up like there some cheaper quarterbacks and cheaper tight ends and so maybe in that quarterback window.

18:15Uh there might be a wide receiver who's got a pretty sick run out here. Was a second round pick last year and had a

18:22sort of disappointing rookie season, but he's attached to Josh Allen. And I think Keon Coleman on the Bills is a guy who

18:31I've been continually getting higher and higher on over the course of this draft cycle. So has the market a little bit.

18:38Um but you know going let's just call it somewhere around you know between pick 85 and 100 depending upon the draft that

18:46you are in. You're in wide receiver zone there if you're a robust running back drafter. Um of course you could be in

18:53quarterback spot too but you're probably trying to chase some wide receiver points at you know pick 90 if you have four running backs or something already.

19:02And uh Khil Shakir it it sounds like he's fine. uh which is weird to say about a high ankle sprain. They Sean

19:09McDerm said yesterday or the other day that he thinks uh he'll be fine for week one, which was very bizarre. He also

19:15said this is something he's dealt with a lot before about Cleo Shagira, which was like he made that sound positive and I'm

19:22like this dude just has a bunch of high ankle sprains.

19:24>> Yeah, that doesn't >> that doesn't seem very good about for my yak god. Like his best skill is by making people miss with the ball. That

19:32doesn't seem great. But anyway, um, Khalil Shakir, right? Kind of a slot receiver. I think there's a little bit more upside to Khalil Shakir maybe than

19:39some other people do. But I think the most likely scenario is he kind of is this uh good slot slot receiver, but a

19:46slot receiver nonetheless. Dalton Concincaid, you know, we're going to get the annual Dalton Concaid hype just like we're going to get the annual AD

19:53Mitchell hype. I think um it remains to be seen if that is anything real. I think Josh Palmer is a fine NFL wide

20:01receiver, but he is certainly not like you know taking this offense into his hands and and you know dominating on the

20:08outside. If there's going to be somebody who does it, the secondyear player who they took in the second round who you

20:15know some people quite liked as a prospect. I actually didn't really like I didn't draft Keon like at all last year because I didn't really like him as

20:21a prospect but he was a little bit better last year than I think he's given credit for. 1.7 I had it up in front of

20:27me. 1.71 yards per run is not awesome.

20:31But for a for air quotes like bad rookie season, that's not that it's not that that bad. Um, now we remove Amari

20:38Cooper. Who know? I I don't know that Khalil Shakir will actually be ready. I think the defense could take a step back

20:45in Buffalo and they're just they need somebody to step forward here. And even if he doesn't really step forward, if he

20:51just runs all the routes, you could just get one of those like Gabe Davis seasons, which is just like totally useful in a robust running back room

20:58where you're just getting a handful of spikes because he's out there running every route playing on a Josh Allen offense. I think that there's a

21:05potential that he takes a massive leap in year two. I think that there's a potential that the Bills just throw a

21:10lot more. I think there's a bunch of different outs you have to Keon Coleman and they like need him. Like they it's

21:16sink or swim. They got to figure out what's up with with Keon because he's their like one bet to unlock some real

21:22upside on the outside and um I think we're getting a pretty good price on him. He he he also goes in a spot where

21:29of course you need wide receivers on these teams, but also like all the wide receivers like you know Ibuka's risen way up out of that range. Ricky Pasol's

21:37risen way up out of that range. Like Golden's risen way up out of there. It's like it's like him and like Godwin and

21:43Jaden Higgins, you know, in that range now. And I think he just really pops off the screen at that price.

21:50>> Yeah, I haven't really taken much Keon Coleman at all. Um, partly because I draft a ton of Luther Burden. Um, like a

21:58ton. And then I also am willing to take Iayuk now that he's down into the hundreds. Um, I've honestly taken I a

22:06decent chunk uh throughout, but he has continually gotten cheaper. And it doesn't I think I don't know to me it's that people are sort of internalizing

22:15that he's going to miss a huge part of the season but it's been clear he's going to miss a bunch the whole time and

22:20so I've just I've always drafted him as like a pure end of season play. Yeah, >> definitely. The more I looked into it, I

22:25was like, "Yeah, maybe we're being a little too optimistic about what he looks like when he gets back." But when he's down there, um, you know, I I don't

22:34mind him. But I burden both probably fit more, you know, wide receiver fives than if you're trying to find wide receiver

22:42points on a robust team. So Coleman definitely this this is the spot where where I think he does make sense. The

22:50the part that I struggle with a little bit is like how how much of last year was him just not being very good and how much of it was

22:59him I believe he he he suffered an injury that he played through.

23:03>> Yeah.

23:03>> And then he he was splitting time with M. Holland down the stretch. Um and so his yards per out run in the including

23:13the playoffs drops to 1.55. It was it was his wrist wrist. Okay. last year and uh he had he went one one for five in

23:24the wildard round. He went one for five again against the Ravens. Then he went one for 12 against the uh the Chiefs.

23:33That was at least on four targets. He had three targets against the Broncos, just one target against the Ravens. So that's part of the reason that I'm

23:40concerned is like he never like he actually regressed. his his best part of the season was earlier on and then he had the wrist and it kind of

23:48just sort of evaporated.

23:50>> So, I'm not sure if like >> that means, you know, we should throw out the back half of last year a little

23:57bit or, you know, the more we saw of him, the worse he looked. And >> like the NFL kind of like Mike McDaniel,

24:04the NFL started to figure out all the after some time. I could see both sides for sure. the the way I've

24:11been playing the um the Shakir injury through the Bills is actually taking more concaid.

24:17>> Uh that's that's the one where I'm like if we I I'm think I'm more willing to leave the light on for concade as like a

24:24differencemaking fantasy asset because he's got tight end eligibility >> and also because I think he more naturally takes over any kind of like

24:32the intermediate slot stuff >> um that Shakir would would kind of leave open with with Coleman. Like, can you beat coverage on the outside? Like, that

24:42seems very uh uncertain right now.

24:47>> Yep. I mean, and that was my huge concern. I mean, >> he was not good at that in college, so

24:53it's very possible. Um, but I think if the people who liked him are right and if any of this dude the

25:04hype the Bills and the Chargers and it's been a I know it's been dampened by the Raan uh by the Slater

25:11>> Yeah.

25:12>> uh injury, but if you play for the Chargers or the Bills, they act like you are a first ballot hall of famer. I don't care. Remember

25:23Terrell Shavers last year? It was like Terrell Shavers really popping at camp, making a push for the roster. Like the Bills are loaded at like it was all of

25:31like the Bills are so loaded at wide receiver. You just don't get it. And then it was like halfway through the

25:35season they had to go trade for Amari Cooper and M. Collins is running every route. I'm like I don't think they were

25:40that loaded guys uh over over the summer. That's the Chargers. That's the That's the Chargers too. You know, now some of the Charger stuff might be real

25:49>> because that they they they talk about everybody being absolutely awesome and then um at least KLS came out in the

25:55first preseason game and be like, "Oh man, they weren't lying. He does look he does look pretty good."

25:59>> Um so maybe the Chargers are just that good. I'm I'm not so not so sure about the Bills. However, uh this does feel

26:07slight. Last year they were kind of hyping up everybody. this year it's a constant like no Keon's different like this is this is a different Keon Coleman

26:16and before like like you're talking about before that injury it really was it was a before and after was two different players um what does that mean

26:24I I I have honest to God no idea I'm not a doctor I don't know how his wrist was I'm not in that room but like he was

26:31really coming on strong right before that I mean he went four for 125 and then five for 70 and a touchdown and

26:36then see you in wrist injury and he was literally basically a corpse um the rest of the way. But I I I just I still think

26:47that like if anybody is going to like I said the people who believe in Keon and really liked him as a prospect and all

26:52that if they're right and anybody's going to take that like leap into stardom like I think Concade I honestly think Concade's like a totally solid uh

27:00football player like already but I don't think he has like star potential. I think that that if anybody's going to do

27:06it, it's going to be be Keon. And like if you get past volume increases and Keon takes a leap. Like there's there's

27:13a [ __ ] ton of value in that at this at this price.

27:16>> Same like Burden, right? It's like if Burden's just really good, you know?

27:20It's it's but but to your on the robust team, I kind of need like the be really good right now.

27:26>> Right now, like I can't I can't wait for you, Luther. I need you to do it like in the first month of the season. And the

27:32thing with the rookies versus the second years, I in baseball, I've really started to to lean towards the rookies because um I think the second years, the rookies

27:41have been priced up, but the second years have been priced up too. And with the second year guys, when they don't

27:46hit, >> it's like they just >> they suck and they don't see what they have because they know what they have

27:53because this guy sucks. They've seen it for two years now and week 17 is he's not really doing anything because he

27:59sucks. um you know the the rookies when they >> he'll pop up in a different camp in three years like Taekquin Thornton

28:08>> and he makes waves, right? That's what always happens. It's the the Taekwon Thornton story is the every bust of a of

28:15a of a young receiver.

28:17>> It's early season production >> three years from now >> for another team >> cuz Rash one of his dumbass teammates

28:24got arrested and now he's running all the routes in the first month. Yeah, >> right. It's actually Jaylen Rager might be our best ex.

28:33>> Yeah.

28:35>> So, >> dude, that happens. Z Jones did that like Nelson Agalar did it. Like these guys pop up all of a sudden in three

28:44years on a different team and you're like, "Oh, is he good now?"

28:46>> Dami Brown might do it this year.

28:48>> Yeah. Dei. Exactly.

28:50>> Yeah. So, but I think with the second years, the advantage is if they do hit, then they're going to hit like right away.

29:00Like Ricky Pieraw, right? If he pops off, he's going to pop off like early September. You know, he's like like we

29:07were expecting his breakout to occur in the very first weeks of the season or kind of not at all. So, when you're

29:16building with like more of a I need every wide receiver who's on this team to like make it count mindset um for for

29:23both early and late, then I I think that the more like well, he wasn't good last year, but maybe maybe he'll be good this year.

29:31Second year guys definitely make a lot more sense. And I do think to the robust thing just overall you do want to swing. I'm not saying you

29:40have to swing on Keon specifically or Pier Hall specifically or whatever, but like I think every to this point like why R.J. Harvey and Keon Coleman are

29:48such awesome fits here is they fit exactly the the needs of that structure, but also like people just do dude if you

29:55go in and you plug in whatever uh you know the the Christian McAffrey Derrick Henry team or whatever and and like you

30:03you know use like our draft IQ tools and you see what all how they build their teams. It is Jacobe Meyers, Jerry Judy,

30:11Courtland Sutton, you know, it's all it's all of those guys and they never sw right and and then it's it's Chuba

30:17Hubard and James Conor and right it's never R.J. Harvey or Javon Henderson, it's James Connor and it's never Keon Coleman, it's Jerry Judy or whatever,

30:25right? It's Jacobe Meyers and it's like I'm not even saying that I mean I don't love any of those guys. Uh but but even

30:32if even if I even if I did like those guys, it's like well let's draft like I'm I I have mixed in some of those guys

30:38on like zero running back teams because I know the zero running back bros don't like Jacobe Myers, right? But like but

30:44like if Jacobe Myers just happens to have the one big, you know, whatever week 17 and I have them on a zero

30:48running back team. They all have Derrick Henry and I got Malik Neighbors or whatever, you know, it's something like that. And I think these two guys fit

30:55that exact kind of um theme as well.

31:01Um, all right. I guess I'll go I will say punt quarterback.

31:08>> Um, I'll say Gino Smith.

31:12>> [ __ ] That was the only one that I knew I wanted to say. So, at least we agree.

31:17He was literally the only one I had written down so far.

31:22>> Um, I've only written down one purr, so I'm hoping you don't snipe me cuz I >> don't snipe me, bro. that I got to

31:29scramble.

31:29>> The guy who wrote an article about asking people to snipe him is not willing.

31:33>> Yeah. Don't please not on podcast.

31:35That's not what I meant.

31:38Um Gino is a very fun punt quarterback because one I probably already have Brock Bowers who spoiler alert is going to be my elite

31:47tight end. I might as well just take care of that. Brock Bowers is my elite tight end. He's gonna he's going to

31:51smash. uh people are treating him like he doesn't fill your tight end role or that he's a worse bet than lad. Still,

32:00he's not. He's not a worse bet than lad.

32:03He's a really good player who's going to put up a ton. He's he's an unbelievable target earner who's going to be the

32:10engine of an entire passing offense.

32:12>> Spoiler, he played college football with Lad and he was better than Lad on said college football. And lad's awesome.

32:19Such a good lad's awesome. They were on the same team together and Bowers was better >> and we're treating Lad like he's better

32:26at the same price in basketball drafts and one of them has tight end eligibility which we know how valuable that is. It is kind of crazy.

32:33>> It's crazy. So Brock Bowers obviously um I have him a lot. I've got so much of them.

32:39>> I I get when I take like Jir Gibbs because I don't have as much Gibbs as I want because I take receivers and I'm

32:45he's one of the guys that scares me. I would love to have a giant bag of Gibbs and I don't. Um, I think I'm like just a

32:50little overweight. It's not like I'm fading him at all, but I want more, you know? And when I But when I take Gibbs

32:56and then I get Bowers or when I get Justin Jefferson, you know, a little after ADP because the the hamstring and

33:01then I get Bowers, it makes me so happy.

33:04So like I just I know I don't have that many combos of this and it's just so good. Like how did this happen, you

33:11know? So anyway, so that's Bowers. Gino, he's easier because I'm getting to the end. I'm like, well, let me push you know, let me push Love and oh, he

33:21goes or I push Lawrence or whatever. I we both love the Lawrence back door, but some, you know, sometimes I'll take the

33:28running back there and then I'll try to push Lawrence and then he gets sniped.

33:31So, I've got like one quarterback and uh maybe it's, you know, especially if it's an elite, you know, then then you're

33:39just like, well, I'll just push my my quarterback too a little bit. And Gino's just sitting there, you know, I've got

33:45Bowowers. Even if I don't have Bowers, if you kind of if you kind of get ahead of it a little bit and just grab Chino,

33:52you can get Thornton, you can get B. And so that's, you know, you it's like a really clean little little back door

33:59stack that you can little back door double if you can pull it off. You you have to reach a little bit, but um

34:06that's fun. It's fun. And I think Gino is genuinely kind of like a breakout candidate from a really cheap quarterback produces like a window

34:17quarterback perspective. I don't expect him to dominate or anything, but just like, >> hey, Gino should have been going actually in the in the 10th and 11th

34:24round. Like he he belonged with those guys and we treated him like he was, you know, >> kind of a Sam Darnold level guy.

34:30>> A Baker a Baker or a former Gino system.

34:33Like Gino did this with the Seah, >> right? He did with the Seahawks.

34:38>> Yeah. So So yeah. So we have the template from him >> from literally he created the [ __ ] template.

34:46>> Yeah.

34:48He's he's he's just like it's such a tricky thing because we talked a little bit about the DraftKings streams and how chaotic they are and I

34:57go get my quarterbacks um just because I don't I'm not interested.

35:04>> Yeah. I'm not interested in dealing with the Tyler Shucks and the Aaron Rogers and the Russell Wilson and stuff.

35:11>> But I've had to make a note to just be like, "Dude, Gino is like your f like the biggest now this has to do just

35:19partially because he's cheap. The biggest discrepancy between where I have a quarterback ranked and where their ADP is is Gino and I'm like yeah and you

35:28have 7% or whatever right and it's like that's wrong. So just figure out how to make that happen. A some of that is just

35:35not not not that this is a problem >> but take Brock Bowers >> more. Um like I said that that's easy.

35:41That part's very easy. Um, but you know, uh, takes you can stack in Legenti and I think that's fine. You, uh, take a

35:49little bit of of Jacobe Meyers and then every once in a while, yeah, you might have to pull up Dante Thornton or pull

35:54up Jack Best Bash around, right? Oh, no, you took the guy who goes at 185 at 175.

35:59Like, whatever will we do? Um, yeah, it's, you know, you didn't lose because of that. And just like planning around it a little bit more. The Raiders

36:08defense, I think, is going to be bad. um every kind of projection, you know, if you go listen to the the defensive

36:13wizards, they're somewhere in the bottom five of like any list out there on >> sometimes like the bottom.

36:19>> Yeah, exactly. Defense >> bleak. Like if if dude, did you watch the Bengals and Eagles game last night?

36:28>> No, I didn't watch >> the preseason game.

36:30>> The Bengals played their starters on both sides of the football.

36:34>> So their defensive starters are out there. They're playing the Eagles backups. Tanner McKe, Johnny Wilson, Will Shipley, and the backups, they

36:44could not stop them to save their life. The Bengals defense is an abomin It's worse than last year.

36:52>> I don't know. So, I've been listening to um Greg Rosenthal's pod, NFL Daily, and that he was talking about, this was like

37:02probably a week ago, but but he was saying that Burrow's been very complimentary of the defense and talking about like how difficult he's made life

37:12on offense, specifically the offensive line. And so the question then was like, is the Bengals defense good or are the is the Bengals offensive line like back

37:22to being a serious problem?

37:24>> Exactly.

37:25>> And it might be that it might be >> actually the Bengals can't block.

37:30>> Yeah.

37:30>> Uh is Burrow going to die again?

37:32Remember when Burrow tore his ACL how bad the It was because the offensive line was an absolute disaster, whatever that was four years ago. Um

37:41that that reminds me um this another revelation that I've uh recently had a name from here may come up for me at

37:48some point. Uh but Romeo Dobs is getting a lot of like oh this is a new Romeo he's dominating at Packers camp right

37:56this is a new Romeo he's taken a leap and all I could think of was how bad are the Packers corners that Romeo Dobs

38:05that everyone's takeaway is Romeo Dobs is dominating. I'm like, I'm sorry.

38:09Romeo Dobs did not turn into Randy Moss overnight. It just you'll never con you'll never be able to convince me that

38:15this like mid ass wide receiver, the most mid >> like he's an NFL receiver. He's not nothing. But I'm like I'm like like this

38:23most Josh Palmer ass receiver is all of the sudden a superstar. I'm like no, it's probably because >> his former wide receiver teammate Bo

38:33Melton is the second string [ __ ] corner for the Packers. like they have a wide receiver covering the guy, right?

38:40This is like a small school high school problem, you know, where you can barely you barely have enough kids to field the

38:46team, right? You know, everybody's got to go both ways. The Packers DBs are like like they got converted wide receivers and XFL guys and like fifth

38:54round rookies. I'm like, >> that's why Dobs looks awesome, right?

38:58Matthew Golden is uncoverable. Well, yeah, cuz Bo Melton is covering him, dude. Yeah, >> this actually might be very bearish for

39:05for Matthew Golden who's had a strong camp. But what if it's because the Packers just don't have any corners.

39:12>> I mean, the one Nate Hobbs, the veteran that they signed, he's hurt. He's out for the rest of camp. Anyway, I've

39:18gotten I've went down this this Packers thing uh a lot recently and I'm like, they might throw a lot more because they

39:24can't cover anybody. Like they they can't cover Romeo Dos in practice, brother. What are they going to do when Justin Jefferson shows up to play? Um,

39:33but yeah, anyway, the Raiders, I think, uh, are going to have a bad defense. I don't know how we got all the way there,

39:38but the Raiders are going to have a a bad defense. I think Gino is just like a really underrated real life like talent

39:44of a of a like in fantasy circles, he seems boring, but I think he's really good, and I think it's just like a

39:50perfect fit. Like they've they've put some really good pieces. You know, if if Thornton and Bash suck, this could be a

39:56little bit of a different conversation.

39:57But I I think Thornton at least provides something even if he sucks. It's like a something. It's like being bad, but but

40:04you're stretching the field still um type of a situation. Kind of like Gabe Davis did, you know, like Gabe Gabe is

40:10bad. Obviously, he's not in the currently employed in the in the NFL, but he was still like doing a thing for

40:17the Bills that helped the offense. And I think Thornton should theoretically do that which is like my god Brock Bowers, Jacobe Myers, Gino Smith, Dash Genty

40:25with some freedom to move is pretty sick.

40:28>> Yeah. And and I actually I take Thornton and we're we're decently high in the ranks now. Um but obviously he's moved

40:35up a lot. People are are pretty excited.

40:38Um, I'm wondering if maybe we still need to come up on him because when you think about Thornton, like at a minimum at

40:47this point, he looks likely to be like a Michael Wilson.

40:52Um, and that's not like the worst thing in the world, you know, at that price.

40:58Like, you can you can work with the Michael Wilson, especially as as a stacked, you know, wide receiver depth piece. But you think about like what he

41:05could be like he could I don't know like if all I know is that a wide rece a rookie wide receiver was a team starting

41:15X from like the first day of of mini camp basically like that's I'd be like yeah I like and where is he going? Oh

41:24like 150s all right like you know so I'm wondering if if we're like still a little bit too low on him. Um,

41:34>> it's a good point.

41:35>> Yeah, I think I think I'm gonna raise him up right now.

41:37>> If if if we didn't if we didn't have Yeah. If we didn't have the like, oh yeah, at the very start he was going in

41:41the last round, right? Like >> we're kind of anchored to that still a little bit.

41:46>> Yeah. And and you just removed all that, right? You uh Men in Black Flashy thing to all of us and you just showed up in

41:51the present day and you were like you said, you were like, "Yeah, this guy who was like, it's a weird profile, but he

41:56was actually insanely efficient on the very limited volume that he did get. the draft capital wasn't bad and he's gonna run every route now on this pretty

42:06exciting offense you said and you're like yeah he goes at pick 175 you're like uh yeah sign me up for that you

42:15know what I mean but but we're like h I don't feel that comfortable because I used to get him at 210 or whatever you

42:21know which is just which is foolish but uh it that psychology is ingrained in all it just it it just is it just

42:27happens to all of us >> totally >> um let's See here, I'm going to do the elite tight end thing so we can knock

42:33that one out. I've I've and I I still believe this. Um, on past shows, both with you and I and and others, I've I've

42:42generally brought up George KD in this this particular spot. So, I I just want to give some love to the other elite

42:48tight end because honestly, I'm going to have an absolute boatload of I I classified their as a trio of elite tight ends. Brock Bowers, Trey McBride,

42:57and George KD. And I just don't feel I feel like Trey McBride because he's like in the middle, you know, he's not the

43:03secondyear like superstar prospect like Brock Bowers was and he's not George KD who uh the smelling salt story stuff from George KD is absolutely [ __ ]

43:12hilarious.

43:13>> Well, uh >> dude, I he was so upset that I actually thought it was genuinely bearish.

43:18>> And then I don't know if you saw they're not banned.

43:21>> Yes. I was like I literally was like there's like stuff where I'm like I know I shouldn't like I know this is probably

43:33not enough to move the needle shouldn't shouldn't change anything in the rankings but I'll like run it by someone like what do you guys think you know you

43:41know and then there's stuff where I'm like this definitely doesn't move the needle but like I kind of think maybe it could

43:51But I'm not even going to tell anyone. I don't even want anyone to know I had that thought. I'm not and I'm not

43:57changing anything.

43:59But I did have a thought, but no one.

44:00>> But when my finger hovers over the draft button, you know, it it does impact my >> crosses my mind.

44:08I was like relieved when I saw that the smelling salt like you can like bring your own. It's Bob smelling salts now.

44:15Um, and it's like all right. I don't know if there's a quirky or anything.

44:19>> By o OS ring ys.

44:25You you genuinely like you mentioned when I get you know Justin Jefferson falls and then Brock Bowers is there and I have feel like I'm having such a good

44:32day. You had that same feeling when you were like okay smelling salt you can you can keep going. Baker you saw the

44:41interview with Baker. They were like what do you think is this going to have an effect on you? And he was like I

44:46think it's going to affect me a lot. I was like, "That's no players ever say that." I was like, "That's This seems

44:53bad. I need to find out who's on smelling salts."

44:57I was like, "No, no, no. It'll be fine.

44:59This isn't going to matter." Thank Thankfully, I don't have to put any more brain power to whether or not smelling salts is actually the reason why Baker

45:06Mayfield revived his career.

45:08>> Yeah, Baker Mayfield's career revived because of because of a newfound love for >> He did it with two different OC's, you

45:14know. I don't know. Maybe it was the smelling salt.

45:19>> I was going to say a new found love for smelling salts, but I'm pretty sure that's just addiction. That's not love.

45:23I'm pretty sure that's addiction. Uh those two guys are awesome, by the way.

45:27Baker and KD, they are just gems. They tell us exactly what is on their mind.

45:31And like there was a fight at practice uh the other day and maybe yesterday.

45:37And you know Tristan Warfs is recovering from with his his knee issue or what whatever it was. And so he's progressed.

45:43Uh now he's just got one cane or whatever. And big ass Trist Tristan Worfs was hobbling out there with a cane

45:49to try to get involved in the the training camp fight. And they asked Baker about it. And he's he needs to

45:54keep his old wobbly ass back over there on the sidelines or whatever. And and they're like uh and they're like, "Well,

46:00did you get involved in the fight?" He's like, "Fuck yeah, I got involved in the fight. It was awesome." You know,

46:04Baker's like, "I it was that it was awesome." And I'm like, I don't know that I want my quarterback like swinging

46:09on dudes in joint practices, but I respect uh the way that he approaches uh the game. Just super quick >> and I promise we'll get back on track.

46:18The two things I think about when uh one from this year and one from last year when you mentioned the like

46:23>> don't tell anybody, but this absolutely has infiltrated my brain and I can't I there's there's I there's nothing I can

46:29do to to shake it.

46:31>> It's your brain. It's a brain. You know, you can't be totally in control of a human brain. And and dude, certain

46:37things just stick with you more than other things do. And you can't always explain why. But do you remember last year?

46:43>> So we were all excited for the Texans passing game specifically last year, right? Uh Straoud was awesome. Nico's a star. Tank was awesome. They add Stefon

46:53Diggs. We're all very excited. And CJ Strad had the podcast with Micah Parsons if you recall.

47:01>> Um which was which was very good. Also hilarious, you know. Uh interesting where Michael Parsons is today. Frankly, interesting where all of the pieces of

47:08the story are today. Now, after that, um because they uh asked each other to create, right, Straoud had to create his

47:16perfect offense.

47:18Parsons was like, Straoud, you create your perfect offense, you pick anybody in the NFL. Uh and then Parsons did that on defense as well. And so Straoud's got

47:26like Devonte Adams and Jamar Chase and right all blah blah blah uh all these superstars. The slot receiver that he picked was Tank [ __ ] Dell. And I'm

47:36like five alarm fire. And I already loved like I already really really like Tank Dell. I liked him as a prospect. I

47:43liked you know every I liked everything.

47:44And so when his quarterback was like he's my if I had to pick one slot receiver on the planet, it would be

47:51Tangell, I was like imagine taking Stefon Diggs over this guy, you know?

47:56Imagine imagine not taking Tangell in the third in the third round. blaming the slot too.

48:01>> I know. And like it could not have been more disastrous. And I mean on a serious note, a sad turn of events for Tankell's

48:09career, but still like even before then it wasn't it wasn't going to end well for for the Tank thing. So like I but

48:17that absolutely impacted me this year, you know. So all this mix and stuff is bizarre. Um, and they obviously signed Nick Chub and they are like

48:29speaking about Nick Chubb as in like we know we have to like kind of say something nice about him, but what we're

48:36really saying is this dude is cooked like that like they are they're without saying like straight up saying and they almost honestly the very first thing

48:46when they are asked about Nick Chub like the very first coach like from coach speak index quote about Nick Chub was

48:51like well you know he's he's dealt with a lot. You know, they're like they're basically like they're like he's got a

48:57lot of mileage. He's had a lot of injury. They're like, you know, how's Nick Chub looking? They're like, well, you know, it's like when you start with,

49:03well, dot dot dot. It's like it's probably not not very like they couldn't even summon up the ability to speak highly of this guy.

49:12>> I believe this is the third time I've read this on a podcast now, but he he said, "This is insane to me. I'm doing

49:18it again." This is from Coach Pacex on July 28th. This is going to live in my brain forever on Nick Chub.

49:26Guy's age.

49:29>> Yeah, guy. That's what it was. Guy's age. He's been through a lot. It's not always going to be the same as the early

49:35years in the NFL, but what my hang my hat on with him is that this guy loves football. He's physical. He plays and

49:41prepares the right way. Really sharpen the protection scheme. Come on. That is you. That is so so messed up, man. You

49:51just buried a guy. You just said you you had to end it with a positive and you said he's good at standing still and

49:58blocking a blocking someone. He loves football. Anytime somebody says when you have to say they love football, I'm like, "Okay, so he sucks." Like you mean

50:07he sucks, right? Like like it's it's like I love football, too, but I can't play [ __ ] professional running back.

50:13Like I want to hear about your football playing abilities, not Nico Ryan literally was like, "I would be a better running back." Like, if I like, we would

50:21be better off if I just played running back for this team.

50:25>> Chub was so bad that we got random I don't know how this became a thing. got random like sleeper affiliated Texans

50:33beat writers hyping the [ __ ] out of Jawar Jordan being like being like he ranked I forget what the guy's name is

50:41but he it kind of went viral at least in our little baby circles because it was the first time people were like oh they

50:47if they hadn't seen that quote they were like oh man Chub really is cooked cuz this guy ranked the Texans running backs

50:53obviously Mixon's not practicing and said uh Jawir number who's playing the best Jawir Woody Marx, British Brooks, and then

51:03Nick fourth. And it was like he's behind Jir Jordan and British Brooks in terms of not just like the pecking order of

51:11like eyeball test from from people was like truly terrifying. So anyway, those things are very much that like have lived rentree uh in in my brain. Though

51:20I think the Chub one works as I've watched him skyrocket up to like the 130s in drafts and I'm just like guys, I

51:26think he's going to get cut. Like I don't think he's going to make the team.

51:31>> Yeah, I really don't draft Chub, but um maybe let me see how far below we are.

51:38>> I took him a couple times in the Superflex puppy. Uh this was before we started to get all that cuz we started

51:45to get some of those mix-in rumblings and then he signed and whatever, you know, it was like, "Oh, pick 200. All

51:51right, I'll do some of this." And I regret every like absolutely every single one of those clips.

51:56>> Yeah. Yeah, it could be bad. It could be pretty bad.

52:02Uh, so just to put a quick bow on Trey McBride, I I really don't think there's a lot to to say about the elite tight

52:07ends that we haven't already said like over the course of the whole summer. I just think he kind of is like the he's

52:12the middle child. He's the middle child of the elite tight ends like B is >> so the so that the people know he's not

52:19the middle child in terms of how we're actually drafting. We just don't tend to talk about him.

52:23>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, especially you and me because you kind of take the KD stance and I'll take the Bower stance, but like

52:27I have at one point I had more McBride than Bowers.

52:32>> I still have more McBride than Bowers and almost the same as KD.

52:35>> Almost the same.

52:36>> So, we're drafting a lot of McBride.

52:38Don't we we we don't >> it's like uh >> middle children can be can be successful too. They just don't get discussed. They

52:46don't get the attention. It doesn't mean they bad. the we actually are in this case treating the children equally, but we love all children equally, but

52:55>> he's just like a boring guy. We don't like talk about him a lot.

52:58>> We're good. We're good parents. He's just the typical middle child. We love him.

53:02>> Yeah. I don't find him interesting really, but >> I love him.

53:07>> I I mean, he's still my child, but you know that Trey, >> he just keeps to himself. Not much personality on that uh

53:14>> not a lot of personality, but uh yeah, he's great. He's a great guy. I have I have Bowowers ranked 13th overall and

53:22McBride ranked 18th overall and so like you know I'm well ahead on both of them.

53:27I'm ahead on KD. Um I love I love I love all those guys and I I I think you know I think Brock Bowers probably ends up

53:35having a little bit better of a career than Trey McBride. But if we flipped over the cards in five years and you

53:39were like yeah Trey McBride's been the best tight end in the NFL for the last five years. Would I be shocked? Nope.

53:44No, not at all. He's absolutely awesome.

53:46Um, there was a another quote from and I know a lot of camp talk here, but we're we're in the thick of it, man. Like when

53:53we're drinking from a fire hose with so much information now that uh a lot of things are going to pop into our heads,

53:58>> but they had joint practices with Saints, Broncos, I can't remember.

54:04Anyway, Cardinals had joint practice.

54:05>> Broncos were with the >> No, Broncos were with Niners.

54:08>> The with the Commanders, I think, or the Niners. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. Yeah, >> Broncos Niners. I can't remember who >> the red uniform, but you're right. It's

54:15the Niners, >> Cardinals, and Rams maybe. I think I think it might have. Anyway, it's not important, but the uh uh whoever they

54:23were had joint practices with, the coach came over um to Ganon or who whoever, I don't remember who's telling telling the

54:31story and basically said something along the lines of like, uh this McBride like how does anyone stop him? They're like, if we don't put two,

54:41they're like, if we don't put two guys on him, he he makes a he makes a play.

54:44He's like, "This is this is like insanity." And like there's only a few guys like Bowowers is in that ilk as

54:50well. But it's like Bowowers, McBride, KD, like no other tight end causes that kind of havoc on a on a defense. And and

54:58I think they're being held back because uh specifically for McBride and Bowowers, they haven't scored a lot of touchdowns. And like Deontay Johnson has

55:04an eight touchdown season. Terry McLaren hadn't scored very many touchdowns and just scored damn near 20 in in a season.

55:11Like that stuff is fickle. and I truly don't care. Uh I think that they're just absolute slam dunk picks.

55:17>> I'm doing this breakout series on um the wide receivers, looking at the mid-round wide receivers um trying to predict which guys can be like, you know, the

55:26the Stefon Diggs 2020 Cooper Cup 2021 type type years. And um the touchdowns thing really jumps out as

55:37not just some something to you know understand is volatile but something that I think we are actually pricing

55:46in a dumb way like that. So if you look at the the wide receivers who broke out none of them scored very many touchdowns

55:56the previous year before they broke out.

55:59and all of them were going in rounds four to six. So, h it's like they and they're obviously the the type of really talented

56:09receivers who can go nuts and so we we underpriced them. One of the reasons that uh you know we we did that is because none of

56:18these guys before the breakout season had more than seven touchdowns in the in the you know in that previous year. So,

56:25>> and you know, like Cooper Cup had three touchdowns, I believe, before he went nuts. Um, so >> very low number. Didn't he have a year

56:32where he scored zero or one or something like that? Cup did at at some point in he had like a thousand yard season where

56:38he scored like one touchdown or something. I might be exaggerating.

56:41>> Probably. Uh, >> you know, it was the three. Yeah, it was the three the year before. Yeah, >> it was right. Yeah, it was the year

56:47before he had three and then he went he had something like >> he had 10 the year before that game. How

56:53the hell what I cannot believe the discount we got on that dude. He had an,200 yard season with 10 touchdowns and then we just like forgot about it

57:01cuz he had the down the the three.

57:03>> He had the down year and so he went from three touchdowns to 22 in one year.

57:09>> Three to 22. Like our ability to read in to what three touchdowns means is is not very good. Yeah.

57:18>> And and I think it would be one thing where you say like, hey, you're saying touchdown scoring is like doesn't matter

57:22at all and is not a skill at all and like these dudes do have skill at, you know, getting open in short areas or

57:28being big or whatever or they can be used on like sweeps and gadget plays, blah blah blah, sure, fine. But like

57:36we're defin this is definitely in the market, you know. We we talk about it all the time, you know, and then you see

57:43like, oh, the biggest breakouts we've ever had from mid rounds like all like at least since 2018 peaked at seven touchdowns the year before. Like yeah,

57:52that's probably why they were going to the mid rounds to an extent. So when you when I'm looking at these guys in the

57:58mid rounds who, you know, had four touchdowns the year before, I'm like, great, that's great. That means I'm like probably not paying full price for the

58:08talent. I'm actually starting to view it as a bull signal.

58:11>> McBride, I think that it really applies to his well. Like if McBride had the season he had last year and he had 12

58:18touchdowns, he's going in the late first round definite. He's going in maybe the he's going maybe like you know with the

58:25puka with the Stafford concern he probably just flips puka >> you know like that's the level uh he'd be like Nate it's like oh well neighbors

58:33yeah but you got to worry about the quarterback play there so why don't you just take McBride he's just absolutely crushed he was the guy you needed I

58:41don't it's it's definitely the reason he's available at the two-3 turn is that he didn't score any touchdowns and I just

58:49don't think we're any good at at at saying oh you know We're way way too willing to say that says something very

58:54meaningful and predictive about this player.

58:57>> Way always like we it's it's one of the things we the royal we in fantasy latch on to all the time, right? This guy is

59:04going to score fewer touchdowns. And I'm not even saying that the logic doesn't make sense, right? Z Flowers, uh Jacobe Meyers, Deontay Johnson, Khil Shakir,

59:14whatever, like all these guys. I'm And I'm not saying that Trey McBride is in that ilk. I'm just saying every year we

59:20do this, right? Terry McLaren, now I know he got the Jaden Daniels upgrade uh prior to last season peaked as a rookie

59:30hilariously uh in 14 games with seven touchdowns. Here's the seasons after that. 4554.

59:40He has 41 total touchdowns in his six-year NFL career. 16 of them came

59:48last year. So to so if you you if you so you have this sample of five years, you're like, "Okay, yeah, I got an idea.

59:56Terry's is this is what Terry is." And then guess what? We weren't as you nailed it. We weren't pricing the talent

60:02correctly because we just kind of assumed he is this, you know, whatever thousand yard six touchdown player. And it's like, you know, he's just pretty

60:10good. And pretty good players can have monster touchdown seasons. I'm not projecting Terry to score 16 touchdowns.

60:17Again, of course, I don't know if he's going to play, but uh you know that Trey McBride Trey McBride can score double-

60:24digit touchdowns in a season. To pretend he can't is just you're just wrong. I hate to not to be an [ __ ] but you're

60:30wrong. He absolutely can. I don't care about the Colorado State days. I don't It's funny. It's a very funny bit, but

60:36like it it's just not based in anything uh reality. My punk quarterback.

60:41>> Sorry. Go. No. Go ahead.

60:44I was just going to say like if he uh let's even just say he had um let's say he had 10 touchdowns because he only

60:53played 16 games last year. Um so let's give him 10. So I said 12. Let's give him 10 and you just tack those those

61:02extra extra eight touchdowns on. Uh pretty nice pretty nice to have that. Um but he he would have scored 18.2 2 PPR

61:12points per game in 16 games. Uh, pulling that up compared to the wide receivers.

61:21I mean, that's that's a really really strong season. Um, >> I think let me loading.

61:29I think he would have been wide receiver two last year, but let me let me confirm.

61:34>> Jesus Christ. He caught 111 balls. for anybody that doesn't that like doesn't remember the season. He had 111 catches for 1,146

61:42yards.

61:44>> Yeah.

61:45>> 16 games as you said. 16 not >> in 16 games. In 16 games. Yeah. So, I mean, if he's if he's doing that, he

61:53would have been wide receiver three. So, Jamar Chase had 23.7 points. Uh, sorry, no, wide receiver four. Uh, Justin Jefferson had 18.6. Aman Raw had 18.5.

62:05give him 11 and he he would have passed those guys. So, uh >> so you get Aman Ross St. Brown at at

62:10tight end. That seems good.

62:12>> It's Aman Ross St. Brown at tight end is the play if he can score touchdowns. And Aman St. Brown by the way had had 12

62:18touchdowns. Um so it really is. It's just like you better be sure he can score touchdowns if you're not taking Trey McBride because if he does score

62:27touchdowns, it's Amanra St. Brown plus touchdown. Amra St. Brown plus tight end eligibility uh from last year. So yeah, and by you know if you you want to

62:39look at St. Brown, he had five touchdowns, he had six touchdowns.

62:43>> Aman Rah himself was this conversation.

62:46>> We did this with Amanra.

62:47>> Yeah.

62:48>> Yeah. Great player. We all loved him immediately from the rookie year down the stretch, right? Kon Strong >> down the stretch, but he was immediately

62:55coined the the Deontay Johnson, right?

62:58The the slot. I know Deontay wasn't a slot, but you know what I like the the Jacobe Myers or whatever. Like, yeah, I

63:02think he's a pretty good football player, but what's his upside really?

63:05And it's like, well, his upside is 1,500 yards and 15 touchdowns. Seems good. You know, I think that dude is is pretty

63:14good. Um, all right. My my uh my punt quarterback since you stole uh my Raiders love. I I think this counts

63:21enough. I may I may be cheating, but uh I'm going to go with Michael Penn. Uh I think like kind of the opposite the kind

63:28of the opposite. He's close enough, right? In the 140s by ADP. Uh he's like the QB like a million. I don't know.

63:34He's way down the list in terms of uh >> uh price. So, uh let's see. Now, now mine's not loading. But anyway, Falcons,

63:45it feels like flop lag season for the Falcons. If you recall last year, right?

63:50Oh, we've been waiting for years. Get Arthur Smith out of here and get these guys a quarterback. And the Falcons are

63:56going to explode. Then they got Kurt Cousins and then we even had this conversation last year about well don't so even if Cousins doesn't go well

64:03there's Penn because they what we thought was stupid at the time turned out to maybe be good I don't know uh

64:09drafted Michael Penn in the first what's that was that stupid >> don't sign Cousins I still think it was bad because it's just like

64:17>> in isolation it's not bad to take Penn if you think he's go but it's like your your off season was bad

64:23>> why did they sign Cousins yeah why >> why did you sign Cousins they loved PennX this much.

64:28>> It was clear they could get PennX where they their draft capital was. If they were set on PennX, then my the only

64:35thing I ever the only way that ever made sense to me is that is that Morris didn't really get involved in the

64:42scouting process until after free agency >> and that basically they fell in love with Penn like after Sonni Cousins and then they were basically like well sunk

64:52cost, you know, not going to fall victim to sunk sunk cost fallacy. Let's go get this guy. He's a star. which I I would

65:00actually credit them for that part, but I don't credit them for um not doing the work before free agency if my theory is

65:06correct. But that's the only thing that makes sense to me. Why wouldn't >> if you knew you loved Penn they must

65:12have fallen in love with Penn after signing Cousins >> because Cousins's whole deal is that he wants security. He doesn't want what

65:19happened to him to h his whole thing was like I don't want >> that's why exactly what happened to me to happen to me.

65:26>> That was the reason he signed in Atlanta. He could have gone back to Minnesota, >> but they >> said they were going to do that to him.

65:32>> They and he said on if you watch Quarterback, right, they said on the the the Netflix show Quarterback.

65:38>> Yeah. Yeah.

65:38>> Uh Cousins said on there that would he could have gone back to Minnesota, but they only gave they were going to go

65:44yeartoear >> with him because they were probably going to draft JJ McCarthy. And so it was like h you know, we would love to

65:50have him back.

65:51>> I haven't seen quarterback yet.

65:52>> Yeah. He he he straight up said he signed with Atlanta because Minnesota offered him uh to come back, but it was

65:59basically, you know, to be the the to be the, you know, the the meant the Kurt Warner to the Eli and the whatever.

66:05Yeah. The bridge quarterback. And he didn't want to do that. He wanted to go somewhere where he was wanted to be

66:09there for the future. And then >> and then they [ __ ] drafted they they committed to him with that with a big

66:15contract. And then they drafted Michael Pennix and he had to be uh the Bridge uh quarterback. But um from the Falcons

66:23perspective, yeah, I don't know. I don't really know what they're doing. So maybe this is maybe uh there's uh something going on just, you know, an inherent

66:30flaw in the whole Falcons organization.

66:33However, I think with the talent on the field with Drake London, with Bjon Robinson, uh I'm not falling for the Kyle Pittz hype. Uh you know, if it

66:44happens, it happens. Have >> you seen that video that uh I don't know if it's start on Instagram, but Yeah.

66:49>> Yes.

66:50Oh, >> do it. Do it. Draft G.

66:55>> Dude, I can't believe I was really hoping we could get through one summer without And speaking of You want to talk

67:01about things that definitely infiltrated my Now, I've gotten over this one, but it did the if I'm falling for the Tank

67:08Dell, you know, CJ Stroud loves Tank Dell. The Michael Pennix and Kyle Pittz are golfing buddies. Got me. I'm not going to lie to you. I clicked them a

67:16couple times after that. I was like, "Okay, this is this is some real shower narrative type stuff we got going on

67:22here."

67:23>> You want to hear another one?

67:25>> Um, Deontay Thornton is apparently on the quarterback's text chain.

67:32>> What? Why?

67:33>> Yeah, he's been something about G. I don't Now, I don't know if it's it's like if there's a I Here's what I don't

67:39know. Did he create a text chain with the quarterbacks, >> right? Or is that like the quarterback's text chain with right with Gino and

67:46Aiden Oonnell? But they Gino was like talking about like how they've been like texting with him and he's like this guy

67:53oh this like from the beginning like this guy's like you can trust this guy like this dude now now and then I was

67:58thinking what does he mean you can trust him? Does he mean he's like a football player or like what's on that thread?

68:02And then he's like no he isn't like he's not he doesn't spread it around.

68:08I've been able to say some really personal stuff and >> yeah, not to make it political, but it's like >> yeah, it's like the O'Connell files or

68:15something going on here. Like we can't, you know, we we can't there they they do or don't exist. I don't know. But

68:21Dante's never going to tell you what what those files.

68:23>> He's a good He's a good friend. You can trust him. You can text him and tell him whatever you you got to say.

68:29>> Oh gosh, that is that is great. But uh >> it h listen it hasn't we have not changed the rankings on that news but I

68:37did think it was it's something that crosses my mind from time to time.

68:41>> Exactly. But that that's this is supposed to be other players that unlock every draft strategy. What it's really being is the things that Pat and I

68:48>> the things that are living rentree >> in our head we constantly influence our draft that we don't actually ever talk

68:54about >> we don't think are good.

68:56>> Well because we don't think they should influence us but we're we're mere mortals. These are all the things we need to go to therapy for.

69:04>> The reasons we need therapy.

69:06>> Need to get a better help uh sponsorship for this show moving forward.

69:10>> I bet we could >> uh Michael Penn.

69:15>> Okay. But I I am genuinely excited for I I'm I'm overweight. Michael Penn. Um, and I I I just I just straight up think

69:23like from the most basic uh like form of analysis, everything we said last year about the Falcons is exactly is exactly

69:31relevant to this season. Except now instead of Kurt Cousins, we're taking like maybe even a higher upside potential quarterback here. You know, a

69:41first round NFL draft pick, took his team to the college the national championship game. Looked pretty solid.

69:46you know, not perfect, but looked solid when he got his action down the stretch last year. Targeted the ever loving [ __ ]

69:51out of Drake London, by the way, when he was uh when he was in there. Go look at the I think Reeves mentioned he targeted

69:56him on like damn near 40% 40% of of uh Drake London routes or something. I'd have to don't quote me on that, but I

70:04remember listening to Reeves, you know, he just recites that [ __ ] like he's a a robot, all of his stats. Um, but uh like

70:13what else have we are we looking for?

70:14Like the talent on the offense this year. Uh the defense is also probably not going to be that. I know they

70:18invested in the defense, but still I don't think it projects to be awesome in the dome pass heavy team that should

70:25probably score a bunch of points. Like what if Pennix is just as good as a right? Look at all the other first round

70:31picks at the quarterback position that we drafted much higher and some of them don't have Drake London and Darnell Mooney and Bejian Robinson and Palitz

70:38and and whatever. Um I I just don't like we could look back and same thing like oh my god this you know I'm not saying

70:45he's going to be like a fifth round pick next year but we look back and we're like yeah this was a QB window guy like

70:50what what do you mean cousins off of an Achilles tear last year?

70:55>> He's higher upside than than Gino for sure.

70:57>> Yeah. Yeah. I just I just know what Gino is and I don't know what Michael Pennix is just yet. But in a punt QB room,

71:04maybe I could use maybe we'll draft both of them. How about that? Gino and Michael Pennix in your punt QB rooms is

71:10like the perfect combination.

71:12Love it. Um yeah, I mean I think he could be going, you know, where Baker goes now. We we tend to have like one

71:18guy coming up a really strong season that then we get very excited about. We did it with Stout. We did it with Trevor

71:23Lawrence. You know, that's like kind of the thing we do. Um, in a way we did with Fields. We We said he was our

71:30running quarterback, so it didn't >> didn't matter, but >> turns out it mattered.

71:35>> Um, yeah. So, oh, Dak. Yeah, Dak. We kind of did it with two. Um, >> yeah, Dak now goes at the N turn.

71:42>> We used to do Dak at the six, seven turn or whatever. It's like Dak goes at whatever turn Sidi goes at,

71:47>> you know, depending upon how good Dak was the year before. And then where does Sidi go? That's where Dak that that's

71:53where Dak >> totally.

71:56You want to do another because you because I did too, >> right?

71:59>> Uh oh, yeah. Yeah, I'll go.

72:00>> Oh, no, you did. No, you did. Uh yeah.

72:02Yeah, you go.

72:02>> I did too, but you you've kicked us off.

72:04Let Let me go. Uh specifically because I I want to take the punt tight end and uh I I imag uh I know that we agree on this guy and

72:15it is uh Harold.

72:17>> This is outrageous. You don't know if this is my guy?

72:20>> Yeah, I Well, you know, I'm not sure if this is my guy, >> dude. A Patriot is always in play for

72:26you at every single one of these spots.

72:28So, I just had to, you know, Harold Fannon Jr. for the audio listeners is my punt tight end. If there was a tight end

72:36from past, let's call it 150.

72:41It's probably higher, but past 150 who we look back and we are like this dude who's going at this price and he's just

72:51a star like a day one [ __ ] star. It's Harold Fannon and he is not even drafted in every single draft. Nonetheless, a

72:59last >> a lot of drafts. He's not >> he's he's not even drafted in especially on underdog in 18 rounds. He's not

73:04drafted most of the time >> on DraftKings. He's he's kind of becoming drafted now because the the the drum beat is quite strong in uh Browns

73:13camp on on Herald Fannon. And by the way, uh well, it'll be too late by the time you listen to this because this

73:17won't come out before their preseason game. But uh so we'll we'll find out how dumb or smart this looks. But uh if if

73:24he pulls a Tory Horton or a KLS or a Katon Mitchell or something, you ain't getting 20th round Harold Fannon anymore. I can tell you that. Um so

73:33we'll see. We'll see if that happens.

73:35But what's what's been real? So I'll start here. I loved Harold Fannon as a prospect. I mean I think it was hard not

73:42to. I understand why people, you know, he comes from Bowling Green, so you're a little bit concerned about the the level

73:47of play, but the the dominance, there's one thing to like be good at a at a lower level of football. There's another

73:53thing to like have the best receiving tight end season in the history of college football at a lower.

74:00>> It it was it's I think that's pretty good.

74:03>> Um to basically operate as the best wide receiver in the country, but you're a tight end is pretty good, I think. Um,

74:12and >> which way do his feet point, Eric?

74:14>> Yeah, exactly. His feet point in funny ways and he he needs to be five pounds heavier and then it's acceptable uh to

74:20like it.

74:21>> It's literally five pounds. Like when you look at like what he weighed in compared to a traditional tight end, he's like

74:27>> I think he was like eight pounds below.

74:28>> It's a couple don't care about at all.

74:31>> Yeah, it's it's it's silly. Uh he blocked his ass off. Now again, lower level of football, but they've als I I

74:37thought it's been impactful that Stfansky and co have like really applauded his blocking both.

74:43>> Yeah, that's that's really important >> cuz he that we need him to be able to to functionally play tight end, not just

74:49the big slot stuff, but they're moving him around. They've talked about like tons of 12 personnel, which you know that can always be a little bit of a uh

74:59fool's gold at times, but I think with Fannon and specifically with this Browns receiving room, it makes like way too much sense for them. Like what are you

75:08going what are we going to do? Play Michael Woods or Jamari Thrash or you know, like I don't foresee those guys

75:14mattering. I think Fannon and and the way they speak about him is like he's the ultimate like they called him the

75:21mismatch guy. He's their mismatch guy, which is like >> he's got a queen on the chessboard, I believe they said after the draft.

75:26>> That seems good. Like we're gonna use we're gonna use this guys because whoever lines up across from him can't cover him. Like that seems pretty good.

75:34The Browns are not going to be very good like at real life football. Meaning what we saw last year, I don't expect it to

75:41be right the same thing as last year, but bad teams can often throw more and and you get a little uh elevated volume.

75:48Elevated volume at the tight end position is a [ __ ] gold mine. Now, if you get elevated volume at the tight end

75:53position on a potential star young player, like I don't know what there isn't to like. So, I've just been absolutely loading the bag with with

76:01Harold Fannon for a while now. And uh I don't foresee it stopping, but you know, we'll see what happens here in the

76:07preseason and uh what he does to his price.

76:10>> Yeah, I haven't been drafting him like nonstop on underdog because you do only have the 18 rounds and I often just like

76:16to have tight end taken care of. Uh, I don't like the tight end the punt tight ends very much this year.

76:22>> Um, >> so I I don't really want to be relying on that. And then >> with Fannon, you know, part of me is

76:29like, is this more of a year two bet?

76:32Um, >> right.

76:33>> You know, because he's going to have to establish a kind of a unique role. It might might take a couple years for him

76:38to get there. Um, on the other hand, you know, I I've tended to be a little skeptical of the 12 personnel stuff when Daltton Concaid

76:46was was coming in and it's like, "Oh, dude, they're just going to play out of 12 the whole time." It's like, no one

76:51does that. Like, no one plays out of 12 the whole time. That's not a thing.

76:54>> The leader leader in just just I think it's important. Last year, the Raiders were first in the NFL in 12 personnel

77:02usage. They obviously had Bowowers and Michael Meyer uh at just just shy of 40%.

77:07>> So, think about that. That was the leader in the entire There's teams that run it as low as like 20% of of the

77:12time. Like >> it the leader in the entire NFL didn't even do it on half their snaps. So it's generally it generally is fool's gold to

77:19like think they're going to like our base offense is 12 personnel. Like no it's not. It's not.

77:23>> It's not. Now, there are some like 13 personnel stuff and so you could kind of get probably into the 45% range and then

77:32you >> Steelers the Steelers are going to put all this into the >> Steelers are doing 04 >> 4 04

77:40>> 04 cuz they >> unbelievable.

77:45>> There's you know there's there's jumbo sets around the goal line. This is why it's really important that Harold Fannon can block. Not because he's going to

77:52take over for Enjoku. Um, but because he can be out there in 12 personnel and it and it be operating in the way that they

78:00want 12 personnel to be working. Like the reason that teams are are pretty more they're there's clearly like a shift towards 12 personnel recently. I

78:09think it goes with kind of defensive shift that we're seeing where they're trying to take away explosive takes take away the deep passing game. And so

78:16you're going, well, if we can have these tight ends who can operate as actual receivers but can also block, that allows us to have this running game that

78:25we're like showing sometimes but then actually passing out of. And now we can get these we can get the the types of

78:31looks from the defenses that we want to pass on actually. But then also they're going to have to respect the run. So he

78:38he gives I mean the Browns got a new offensive coordinator. They they got Tommy Reese who's, you know, comes from the kind of the well, he's with Nick

78:46Sabin, but he was he was with the uh the Chargers for a while. He's with the I think Stiken was the quarterback coach

78:53there. I think Lafleur might have been on that ro that uh so he's he kind of comes from like, you know, Shanahan type

79:00of roots, I guess. Um and then obviously Stfansky does too. So the the thinking is they're going to be kind of more

79:11built towards balance from a philosophical point of view. Um, you know, trying to keep defenses off balance is really like, you know, the

79:21defense not knowing what's coming, being a key part of what they're doing this year.

79:24>> That's that's Shanahan McVey that that's the that's the Shanahan McVey like the like we can get into like the nuts and

79:29bolts, but that's the thesis is is >> that's like the central thesis. Yeah.

79:33>> Yep.

79:34>> You aren't going to know what we're doing because all of our plays look the same. The pass game and the run games

79:37all married up, all that stuff. Vannon I he brings an important part of that because you know if he can block like if

79:46he can actually block and be the receiver that he was at Bowling Green then then he really is kind of a a queen

79:50on the chess board for them because he allows them to to you know be hard to predict. So that part of it is exciting.

79:59Um I do think we're probably talking about a player who's in the 60% round participation range even if things go pretty well. you know, you're looking at

80:06like, okay, they're only going to run 12 personnel around like 40% of the time, maybe 45% of the time and kind of heavy

80:12sets and then uh he'll take over from Ajoku is only going to have like 75 to 80% round participation himself. So, he

80:19will have some snaps where where he's the solo tight end. They'll probably do stuff where they go like four wide, but

80:24one one's Fannon, so they're kicking Fannon out, you know, they're kind of moving him around, >> all that stuff. So, I think he can get

80:31up to like 60%.

80:34If he was going as like a 12th round pick, I'd be like, "Man, you know, how much is he going to play?" Right. If

80:41it's concaid where like we get excited about him, he gets up into the fifth round and we and he still really hasn't

80:45secured a full-time role, then like yeah, I mean, all the push back in the world, but >> this dude is completely free. He's

80:51actually a leverage piece because he doesn't get drafted on underdog. And I think he could be awesome as a receiver. He's competing against Cedric

81:00Tolman to be the number kind of two target I guess I guess injoku you know is the number two really but then you

81:08know Cedric Tilman is the is the next highest wide receiver after Judy and their slot I it's like maybe Deontay Johnson or maybe Deontay thrash like

81:17there's so much opportunity for him to establish you know like the ability to what what he's going to what he's trying

81:26to do is be able to earn turn targets kind of more shallow to intermediate and and add yards after the catch.

81:32>> Um, which again is kind of nice too when you think about what the way this offense is going to be designed like

81:39they don't they're quarterbacks with Jador and and Gabe Dave uh Dylan Gabriel uh is you got Gabe Davis in my brain.

81:47>> They play together.

81:49>> Dylan Gabriel and Gabe Davis were at UCLA.

81:52>> Really? Oh wow. God. Well, that's not that's very bearish for Dylan Gabriel in terms of how long he's been in school.

81:57He's lucky Tyler Shuck was in this class.

82:00>> Yes.

82:00>> Um those two are just going to be >> point9. That dude was that dude was at UCF in 2019. He was the starting

82:07quarterback as a true freshman uh in in 2019 >> at uh at UCF.

82:13>> Get the ball out quickly to Harold Fannon could be kind of the way things are operating down the stretch and tooku

82:19and to Judy. It's not just going to be him, but you mean tight end eligibility, slot receiver, you know, completely free. Sign me up.

82:31Sorry, now I'm staring down the barrel at old UCF football teams. Uh, this is that was a bad idea. But, uh, I mean, obviously I I

82:39I have no chef's kiss. Nothing else to add on on uh on Harold Fannon. I just I think in later rounds something that

82:48I've uh I've been poor at in the past or so you have to thread this needle right with late round picks in baseball and we've

82:57talked about this a lot like we we don't want to take on so much like zero risk that it's like oh sure it's a last round

83:02pick I can just swing for the fences and it's like >> right right you you you do still want something functional but you also don't

83:08want so you don't want dead roster spots but you also don't want what I've always said like walking dead roster spots

83:14right like Van Jefferson or whatever.

83:15It's like sure Van Jefferson's going to make the team and run routes, but like he's never going to actually his points

83:21are never going to hit your lineup. So, what's the [ __ ] difference between him and and and somebody else? But

83:26obviously, there's a lot in there's there's many shades in between Van Jefferson and and whatever uh some other just total home run swing.

83:36The sweet spot for me has kind of become these these rookies, Harold Fannon, Tory Horton, Jaylen Royals, whatever. I'm like, they're going to make the team and

83:48Dante Thornton.

83:50Uh, and it's like, oh, they're like running with the ones like now, like early and like they're getting right.

83:56It's not like like I know I've I've hyped up the Germaine like the secondyear guys like a Germaine Burton or whatever and I am intrigued by those

84:02guys but I like totally just like kicked those guys to the curb once we're like I'm like oh [ __ ] this Royals drum beat

84:08like let's get on this the Tory Horton drum beat let's get on this like these exciting prospects like Tory Horton and

84:15Jaylen Royals are very Harold Fannyish uh at the wide receiver position in that they're like flawed prospects but a lot of it was smaller school and injury

84:24related. Harold Fannon wasn't injury but smaller school like and I I hate it because you're not allowed to say this because everybody's like is that are you

84:31saying that he's he's going to be the next Puka Nua and like no there is Puka there is only going to be one Puka ever

84:37in the history of football most likely but in terms of the smaller school guy who was like insanely productive when he

84:43played but then like banged up and so then they go in the fourth round instead of the second uh right like Jack Bash

84:50goes in the second and Jaylen Royals goes in the fourth and Tory Horton goes in the fifth and like what specific

84:54specifically about Jack Bash's college career was better than uh than than those guys. And it's like but because of that those guys go in the last round of

85:02our best drafts, right? And so like instead of chasing the like absolute miracle lottery ticket, you can kind of have your cake and eat it too. And it's

85:09like even if it is a year two play like you mentioned, the thing that always jumps out to me about the year two play

85:15is they can be a week 17 play. It's like you can be absolutely right. And the the year two play is when they actually are

85:21a real thing like in terms of their year two play, >> but he also went nuts to make 17.

85:27>> Exactly. And that's what I think about those guys and that's what I think about Harold Fannon. Like worst case scenario,

85:32like I could still get some late season upside from this guy. Like like obviously worst case scenario is is he's nothing. But you know what I mean? Like

85:39even if it doesn't go well, you have outs because the year two plays can be the the they can be they can be at their

85:45best when we need them the most uh for our best purposes. So >> totally totally.

85:52Um, all right. Well, I'm gonna have to come up with something else for punt tight end because I don't really like

85:56any other punt tight end options and I basically do my whole drafts to avoid punting a tight end. So, >> unless it's fan. Yeah, I don't take any

86:04of >> people.

86:07What do you think about Theo Johnson?

86:08What do you think about Sanders? I'm like, it seems fine, but I'm just drafting Fannon, guys. Like, I don't know what to tell. Like, I'm I'm I get

86:14it, but I'm not doing it.

86:16>> Yeah. Um, let's see. I will say hero running back Jir Gibbs.

86:25>> Damn it.

86:27>> I knew that would snipe you. That's why >> that one's As soon as I especially as soon as I said earlier that I I ripped

86:33the band-aid off and moved him to the 103. It was like, well, you know, he's the answer here.

86:37>> Yeah. Yeah, I know he's your answer. I I did have him written down, but I just I picked that one because I knew if I

86:43didn't, you'd get it. Um, yeah. I mean, Gibbs is just like he's such an exciting pick. When things go right for him this

86:51year, he's like the guy you need. And when things go right for him this year, >> do you need more than one running back

86:59spot? You've you've filled one.

87:01>> He's he's hitting your lineup week in week out. Like, you know, his profile if he >> gets what the role that I'm hoping,

87:09which is not a total lock on on snaps. I don't expect him to be like, you know, Christian McCaffrey, um, where it's like he's getting like,

87:19you know, 85 90% of the snaps. But I do think that, you know, he's what he gets more of is some of the traditional

87:28running looks and then that leading to actually more passing volume because he'll get more play action passes. Dave Montgomery was the league winner in

87:37yards per route run last year because he just got fed on play action stuff.

87:40that's going to to Gibbs. Th those are like easy and reliable looks in the Lions offense because they run a ton of

87:46play action. I know they change their OC, but that's not going to change.

87:49They're going to run a bunch of play action. That's the whole way you unlock golf. Um that's a core part of what they

87:54do. So, he's getting that and then, you know, you get the explosive running, but you're getting a little bit more work

88:01around the goal line, too. And this is a this is a good offense. I mean, there's some worry that they won't be like as

88:06good a team as last year for sure, but this offense is still going to put up points. And this offense is one that I

88:14really trust to play to win. And that's a Dan Campbell thing. That that's not a Ben Johnson thing. I mean, it might also

88:20be a Ben Johnson thing, but Dan Campbell from the moment he's been the Lions head coach has been >> he's been there to win games. He's not

88:26there to like go home with his, you know, head held high. And we we punted when we were supposed to. It's a shame

88:32we lost. like no, he's trying to win these games. If he has to pass, he he has a plan B that the the team will

88:40shift to a more pass heavy approach when down. Um you know that not that you want them like trailing and getting blown

88:47out, but like in those games where they have like when the Ravens just stomped on them and stuff like they they throw

88:52they understand the situ they understand situational football a lot better. Maybe maybe not understand but are willing to like face reality about situational

89:01football more than a lot of other coaches. I think other people act they act on it the best.

89:06>> They act on it. So, >> you know, he's and but he's if they throw a bunch, that's awesome for Gibbs,

89:13right? If they're um if they're continuing to to put up points in shootout scripts instead of like trying to make the game end as soon as

89:20possible, that's also awesome for Gibbs.

89:22So, he's just if it hits, you know, I think one way that you can kind of capitalize even a little bit

89:28more on that hit is say, I'm going to build this as a hero running back team.

89:31I'm This is the Gibbs legendary upside season. He absolutely smashes. He's the dude you need. The right answer in round one was just Jir Gibbs. How are we

89:42letting this guy fall to like 104, 105?

89:45He should have been the 101. And if he's that dude, I think, you know, he he just fills the running back one spot for you

89:52and you're just looking for one more running back uh you know, in the rest of your draft.

89:58>> I could I could not possibly agree more.

90:00I uh as this as the summer. Like I said, I finally just ripped the band-aid off.

90:04I'm I'm embarrassed to say it took me this long or whatever. But I think it was a little bit of uh of like the JJ

90:12hamstring stuff, too, where it was like, yeah, he's also kind of JJ's falling a little bit now. You got the puka like

90:18Stafford scare, which doesn't which seems to be not an issue um based on the stuff they said. And so it's just been

90:24like like you get to like I take CD at CD at the 102 and after that I I mean I understand if someone likes Beijan or

90:33Saquon or whatever, but I was just like there was nothing anymore stopping me from just being like why exactly aren't you just getting to like 15% Gibbs? Like

90:42what like what are we doing here specifically? Yeah.

90:45>> And uh I I didn't have a reason um anymore. And two quick things. I know uh Gretch wrote about this really well in a

90:53a recent stealing signals because I think he has them like 102 or something like that. Uh Jir Gibbs and uh he said

91:00it and everybody seems to everybody has stumbled upon this exact phrase because I I had said it earlier in the summer. I

91:05think you might have said it as well and Ben said it in his stealing signals piece about part of the Jir Gibbs play

91:12is like when you do what he did down the stretch, you can't put that genie back in the bottle.

91:17>> Yeah. Like you just can't like how do like look David and they still speak highly of David Montgomery because of

91:22course they do >> and he's a fine football player but like how do you watch Gibbs do that? Like like he's the probably the best running

91:30back in the NFL like him and Saquon and and like how do you watch him do that and then you go yeah but why don't you

91:35just go watch David Montgomery for half of of every game like Montgomery should be now keeping you fresh as opposed Right. Montgomery plays the 40%.

91:44Montgomery plays 40% because that's how we keep Gibbs fresh and healthy, >> but he it's not like this they're equals like because they're not. Everybody saw

91:53we all saw that they're not equals anymore, right? One guy is Thor and the other guy is Hawkeye and they are both

91:59Avengers but they are not the [ __ ] same. Okay? Like one guy is a god and the other guy shoots bow shoots a bow

92:05and arrow. Okay? They're just like very different things. And the other just the last thing because this one is another one of those lives rent free in my head

92:12and I 100% like I'm acting on this one and I'm uh it is what it is. So David Montgomery has always started for the

92:20Lions, right? Gives if you watch Lions games, Montgomery plays the first series and they rotate. They don't like there's not like a passing down back or

92:27whatever. They just rotate drives >> and Montgomery would always get the first series and then Gibbs would come in. And that happened in practice as

92:34well. Montgomery, right? when you go through like running back trails, you go through in depth chart order. I don't know if anybody knows that, but

92:40generally you go through in depth chart order. And so Demart would go first every single year. This year, Gibbs goes first in all the drills. He goes first

92:48when they do, you know, 11 on 111. When they do seven on seven, Gibbs is the first guy up. And like it truly could be

92:55means absolutely nothing. I'm not like changing my projection because of that, but it definitely lives in my head like, oh, there's that like they've at least

93:02acknowledged that much that like, okay, I think it's Gibbs. Yeah, >> Gibbs is the guy.

93:06>> Well, that was the the the Jordan Rodri tweet that also lives free in my head for the Chaire year >> where she said, "Sometimes the order

93:17doesn't mean anything and sometimes it does." And then she tweeted >> she's not allowed to say yet.

93:22>> She's not allowed to say the depth chart. They're they're prohibited from saying the depth chart at Rams Camp. And so then she but she picked a picture

93:29that showed the depth chart cuz she's the best. So she told us and it was it was Acre. It wasn't Kirn one. It was

93:36Acres one, Kirron 2.

93:38>> Yeah.

93:39>> But Kirn was like very very locked in as the two. That was >> that's the funny and Acres was like the

93:45most fragile starter.

93:47>> Um not just because he'd been bad, but because they like didn't like him. there was personality stuff there. He'd been

93:55suspended from the team, you know, all that stuff. So, >> it was like an obvious situation to target, but we weren't sure. Is it

94:01really Kirn? Does he have it locked in?

94:02She told us um and she told us with the order of the drill. So, it's not It has worked before. It's worked before.

94:10Yeah. Uh oh, man. That was that was so much fun that summer. Uh uh it also did you see that summer? It's like this is a

94:20hilarious episode. the memory lane, the the anxiety better help uh references and uh uh Zach Evans, remember the year, Zack Evans from from

94:31TCU and Old Miss? Uh he just retired from football like a week ago or something and there were people flag playing I I feel

94:40>> he was a big pre-draft guy.

94:42>> People were so number one running back recruit in the country uh when he came out of came out of high school. I mean,

94:48he did have good years in in college, but had a very bizarre like a trying to think of what a good comp for his like

94:55not Kahan booty, but sort of like this massive prospect that showed some stuff, but had that had a very weird up and

95:02down career in college. That's kind of what Zack Evans was. So, people still really liked him because he he was clearly talented, but jeez, man, out of

95:09the NFL now.

95:10>> Wow. out of football, out of not not not even in the CFL or the or the XFL, just uh selling insurance or whatever it is

95:18that uh that you do when you retire from football at 24 or something. Hopefully he uh hopefully he took care of the fam

95:26and everything. I I straight up don't know who to do uh hero running back with. So, I'm I'm I'm going to nibble on

95:33that one and I'm going to move down to elite quarterback. And I this is another one where full transparency Jayen Herz

95:42is my highest owned elite quarterback, but I've talked so [ __ ] much about the Eagles and the Eagles passing game

95:49on every episode of every podcast all summer, including this morning. Uh that let's talk about somebody else. And I I feel like Lamar doesn't care.

96:00>> I was going to do >> Lamar Lamar's the best quarterback in the NFL.

96:05Okay. Uh, in my opinion, um, I know, uh, that's maybe a hot take. Mahomes, Josh Allen, what have you. I think Lamar's

96:14the best quarterback.

96:15>> I I think Lamar's the best quarterback.

96:16>> He almost won backtoback MVPs like >> Yeah. Um, but he, you know, he's a he's a running back to plays quarterback,

96:23don't you know? And, uh, who threw what, 45 touchdowns and five interceptions or some [ __ ] Uh, dude, it's just,

96:29>> dude, remember when no teams like tried to get him?

96:33>> It's absolutely unbelievable. anyone. I know it just absolutely anarchy and the takes that are out there. The old takes exposed around Lamar like early career

96:42Lamar just like I'm just I have plenty of old takes exposed takes that that could be tossed around out there. I'm

96:48just happy I never was an anti-Lamar guy. It's like it's like being anti like >> LeBron or something. That LeBron James

96:56that LeBron James guy, he was [ __ ] overrated in high school. I can't believe anybody ever would think.

97:02Yeah, a friend of mine had that exact take and I' I've never forgotten.

97:06>> It's just like he's like truly one of the best players to ever play this. Like Lamar might be the most talented

97:10quarterback to ever grace the planet Earth, like talent-wise. Um he needs to win a Super Bowl and all that kind of

97:16stuff. I know, but I don't actually think we've seen the true ceiling from a fantasy lens of Lamar Jackson and the

97:25floor is just like what it does for like building an elite quarterback team.

97:30Obviously now, you know, you used an early pick on a quarterback, so you want to use that guy's scores. You want them

97:36to be able to spike. You think the guy who can take a play 80 yards to the house at any time can spike. Yes, of

97:42course. Like you said, multi-time, you know, MVP.

97:46Uh Derrick Henry keeping defense. You can't exactly uh just like play a light box against Derrick Henry. You can't play a light box against Lamar Jackson

97:55with Derrick Henry next to him because both of them can run. They got weapons every I think their weapons are really

98:00underrated. Obviously likely is hurt right now, but the tight end duo Z Flowers is like a borderline star that nobody thinks is like that great.

98:08>> Uh and I think the ancillary guys are not like Rashad Baitman is a perfectly serviceable like outside wide receiver in a a really good offense. I don't know

98:16that Hopkins has anything left, but if that's just like an a depth body, >> I think he has something left as like

98:21your number three that helps the offense kind of keep the chains moving and stuff. I kind of like some of these

98:27other guys. Uh I've always been a Tylen Wallace guy, but I think not not because I think he's going to be a star, but

98:34like Tylen Wallace, I think Tez Walker is having a better camp this this year.

98:38Obviously, he had a he was a good bet to be a slow starter, honestly. Last year, Leonte Wester out of out of Colorado

98:46popped in their first preseason game.

98:48He's more of like a return man and slot man, but like I think all these guys are probably upgrades over Nelson over

98:53Nelson Agalar. Literally Hopkins, everybody is. They have multiple tight ends to use. I don't know if anybody watched the preseason game last night.

99:02You see that Katon Mitchell fell? He's back. He looks good. He looks You add this insanely juiceful like uh scatback, you know, player weapon. He's great in

99:12the screen game. Justice Hill is like the just a total reliable like Samaj AP Ryanesque type back or whatever. They got dudes everywhere. And if the defense

99:22at all takes a step back and like and it has to go like Lamar go win us some games, this dude's going to be dropping

99:2940 balls in fantasy like consistently because of the rushing and just the overall talent around on this offense.

99:36If he ever gets truly pushed or god forbid something happens to Derrick Henry, like think about if something happens to Derrick Henry. Like I love

99:44Katon um but like we're not loading up Katon Mitchell and Justice Hill. Like it's Lamar take overtime. You know what I mean? And and so there's just like so

99:52much upside and the floor is like dude, you just get 20 points every week >> from Lamar Jackson and like that's what

99:58I want. I don't Allen might have a higher individual, you know, single game ceiling, but I we get a lot of the Bills

100:05like just being like, you know, Josh, we don't care. We're going to throw 28 times today and you're really not going

100:10to run that much either. So like we get those 12 point Lamar or uh Allen games.

100:15like we just don't get those from Lamar and uh just give me the best quarterback on the planet with that much upside all

100:22day every day.

100:24>> No, I I completely agree. And we talked about this. We were we were talking about like the keys to the round or

100:30whatever the the thing we did before was and I I took Z Flowers and I I said, you know, stacked in the fifth with Lamar

100:37>> is just so good. And then >> so good.

100:40>> Now with the with the likely injury, I feel better about Andrews. So you can go do Lamar Flowers and Andrews and you're

100:49getting fifth round Flowers compared to fourth round Flowers last year. You're getting uh I mean Andrews is what like in the ninth and you're getting him

100:58>> Yep.

100:59>> Um he was like at the four five last year. So like that you really couldn't have you it was difficult to get I

101:08remember you know when I did get like a Lamar Flowers Andrews it was like oh yeah but now it's like it's easy you

101:16know >> every draft you could do >> if you're on the front half of the board you could do it every draft you take

101:21>> I mean you could definitely do it every draft because you could just take Z Flowers in the fourth but if you're in

101:25the >> in the you know like the 304 you you grab Lamar >> Flowers is very likely to be there in

101:32the fifth And if he's not, you know, whatever you you can it's not the end of the world because he's stackable late

101:38with Rashad Baitman with DeAndre Hopkins with likely frankly now he's fallen so far. You can still do that.

101:46>> See him in the last round every once in a while if you get in the right in the right room that's really scared of the

101:51injury. Like you can get a super cheap likely now.

101:54>> And honestly, I think Katon Mitchell is draftable now. So you can do all that.

101:59Um I don't tend to draft Henry, so you know, he'll probably bury me again. But it's another reason where I'm like,

102:05"Yeah, give me this passing game, you know, let's let's let's have that be the the way, you know, this team is

102:11>> yeah, is putting up points this year."

102:12And then, you know, last year they just threw so little. So I just I wrote up say Flowers as part of these breakout

102:18profiles that I'm talking about. And when you look at like, okay, how do these breakout seasons occur? One of the ways is that these guys just like had a

102:27lot more routes per game. And it was usually a combination of the team had more dropbacks and the player had a

102:33higher route participation. And with Zay, you have a chance actually for both to happen. But the dropbacks is kind of the more enticing part because they they

102:41threw so little. They threw so little in a way that's hard to sustain. It it kind of is dependent on you being a dominant

102:49team. And that level of dominance is is just hard to keep up year year after year. Now, we know that the Ravens are

102:55not going to want to throw a ton, but I'm basically like, let's look what happens if we take them to like where

103:00they were two years ago with Todd Monkin instead of last year. And it's like, this makes a big difference actually when you're starting to project out

103:07their their weapons. So, >> um I think some of the upside around the passing volume and around, you know, Lamar being able to support multiple

103:15weapons is is maybe not fully understood or baked in. I think there is some touchdown regression that people are baking in which makes sense. You know,

103:25Lamar did throw for a ton of touchdowns last year that probably falls, but um there's this is a really potent offense

103:32and I think touchdowns could funnel right to to the top guys easily enough or to one of the top guys. So, being

103:38able to like easily stack Lamar with Flowers and Andrews or or Andrews or likely and Baitman I don't take a ton

103:47of. I think he's a little bit overpriced, but certainly with Lamar, you can mix him in. And then honestly, Hopkins is a dude I will tackle on at

103:53the end because it's like he's probably dust, but you know, he's he's gonna he's going to run a bunch of routes and be

104:00with Lamar.

104:01>> So, you know, it's kind of like it's sort of the Josh Palmer case in a way, but I'm getting it way cheaper. The

104:07Hollywood case, but I get it. I get it for free. It's like, yeah, he's probably more washed than Hollywood, but for sure he is. Is he is he kind of the

104:18same?

104:19>> Does Hollywood even play football anymore? My one of my favorite another more rentree in my dome was uh Hollywood like uh one of the first things he said

104:28like coming into training camp was he I spent all off season trying to train to make sure I stay healthy this year cuz

104:34I've been hurt all the time and then two days later he got hurt again and he still hasn't practiced ever since. I'm

104:41like, "What did you do specifically in the off season?" Cuz you said you were your entire goal was to try to stay

104:47healthy and you got hurt immediately.

104:51Again, uh the guy's just Yeah, that's like my Jaylen Royals bullcase. It's just like I don't trust Hollywood as far as I can throw him. And I know he's

104:58small, but I still can't throw him very far. So like I just I just can't can't do it. So like I don't like Hopkins as much as you do,

105:06but >> attached to Lamar at a cheap price. I just, you know, he's he's he's on the he's on the menu for me and and what can

105:13you say? Yeah. Like, dude, he's attached to Lamar >> at a cheap price. Certain, you know, you get a free price basically. Absolutely

105:20free. Yeah.

105:21>> So, just I'm not going to I'm not going to like there's certain guys that need to be off the board for me to get there.

105:25But especially now like uh uh shout out to all these [ __ ] scoring touchdowns in the preseason then skyrocketing up

105:32the boards because everybody waits for everybody waits for them to score a touchdown in the preseason and then they start drafting him which like I I I do

105:39certainly get but it's frustrating when like I've been you're loading up on that guy and then like every Tom Dick and

105:45Harry's like, "Oh, that Tory Horton guy looked good when I watched him in the preseason the other day." I'm like, "Yeah, we've been we known he's been

105:51looking good for two months if you listen to the to the Seahawks." But anyway, uh yeah, I'm I mean just just

105:58the Ravens, man. Just like give me the RA like kind of the Eagles and the Ravens how I'm doing it. Similar to the

106:03Bills, like I'm not really drafting James Cook, but just like give me every other Raven besides Derrick Henry and like I'll I'll live with that bet 100%.

106:13>> Um all right, I will say is there anyone?

106:20I will say Bashaw Tutin for zero running back.

106:27Oops. Ball to another guy's price is getting even cheaper as well right now.

106:34>> Yeah, because BAL Tutin on August 8th doesn't have the starting role for the Jaguars locked up. And what

106:45a shame. And I guess that's it. all she wrote. It's a shame that Toutton's a bust. We'll move on. We'll find the next

106:55guy. Um, you know, you win some, you lose some.

107:00Uh, it's just the way these things go.

107:02Um, but, you know, I guess maybe we should like let the rest of the summer play out and the entire season before we

107:10completely give up on the day three rookie who was running with the ones from the start of camp. That's just, you

107:17know, just for to do our due diligence.

107:19Maybe maybe let's do that because I would posit perhaps it's actually good that Tank Bixby is ahead of of Travis

107:28ETN as a runner. That that Travis ETN the worst thing that could have happened to Tuton I think is ETN is like looking good. that ETN's got

107:40like this is ETN's backfield and but they expect Toutin to mix in and they expect um Bigby to mix in um you know to

107:49to kind of keep him fresh and they really like Bixby as a runner and and Tutin's really flashing you know some

107:55some playmaking but um but you know this this will be kind of ETN's job for now with Bsby like Bixby leaves

108:04a lot like Bixby's a runner he's a downhill runner He's not a receiver. If you've watched him play, you know that

108:11shows up in the numbers, too. So, him like immediately being the runner, I think, tells you like that they're they're not that into ETN. ETN's got

108:21work to do. And then Tuton, he's missed time, but he is back now at training camp and has been with the ones and has

108:28looked pretty good. And so when I think about zero running back builds when I get into that range,

108:37um, I actually can find guys that like, you know, might give me some early season production relatively easily. I can find a Raandre, you know, not too

108:48far above Tooten now. Often I'm where I take toot and I'm kind of decide between the two of them a lot. Um, you can find

108:55JK Dobbins around pick a hundred and get, you know, he's I considered saying him because he's I think a pretty nice

109:01way to uh, you know, fill out zero running back builds, but that's not the part that I'm struggling to fill. Like,

109:08frankly, you can get Dylan.

109:09>> That's what I was going to say. I'm just writing him down because that's that's exactly what I was going to say. I also

109:12think he pairs really well with with your tooting conversation. Go on.

109:15>> Yeah. But but Dylan Samson gives you, you know, some early season production probably and you can do like if you want

109:21to take Jerome Ford, I obviously have drafted Miles Sanders, which is gross, but you know, he could help out a little

109:27bit in the early part of the year.

109:28>> We've all done the Cowboys backfield thing.

109:31We feel gross every time we do it, but >> we feel gross every time. But like when I'm looking around and then you you do

109:38have some other rookie flyers obviously you get you got you know Bashard Smith, you've got um Jakory Crosky Merritt is is flying up boards right now. You've

109:47got Jaden Blue. But when I look at those guys, first of all, they were much worse prospects for me than Toutton. Like much

109:55much worse in in the case of JCM, although he didn't play his senior year which you know hurts him pretty bad. But

110:00um but even like Bashard Smith like a much worse prospect than Toutin. Uh and when you look at Smith, I think you have

110:10to feel that he's probably capped in terms of the the role that he's going to have as a rookie that he's really

110:15fighting for that Jerick McKinnon role.

110:17Um and then Jaden Blue, he's kind of fighting for, you know, maybe he mixes in as a runner some, but he's going to be like kind of a

110:25receiving back who gets used some in the running game. I think the ceiling is a little bit capped.

110:31>> Um, Toutton, he was a workhorse runner.

110:34He's a bit undersized, but he was a workhorse runner, a really explosive runner, made people miss, really good in the passing game. This is actually the

110:42profile of a guy who takes over a backfield by the end of the season. Um, I would compare him in some ways to

110:49Scataboo. He's got more bursts than Scataboo for sure, but it's a similar thing where you're like, "This guy's good. He's actually like a really good

110:56runner and he's a good receiver and he could just be like a backfield stealer by the end and he's, you know, he's

111:03cheaper than Scataboo has been a lot cheaper. Scatteraboo is falling now.

111:06Even still though, Scataboo's AP is higher. So to me, I'm like, these are the two guys that I've been excited about over the course of the season

111:15becoming lead backs. And when they become leadbacks, they don't just get like, you know, they're not ranked that week at like RB14 or RB, you know, 18.

111:26Like they're they're like, "No, no, no.

111:28This dude's a merge." Like, he's the guy. He, you know, this is this is an RB1. This dude's an RB1. And that's

111:35>> that to me, Tutin has that type of profile, that well-rounded, explosive profile who who is productive in in both elements of the game. Um,

111:45and and he's just continued to stay cheap. I I don't care that he's not the the running back one right now. I mean,

111:52I prefer it for the bags that I had before, but he he he just like wouldn't go here if that were the case. No,

112:00>> if he were the running back one, he should be going like where Harvey does.

112:05>> Yeah, exactly. like Scataboo Scataboo wasn't get wasn't even at all guaranteed to be the RB1 and was going at pick 100

112:12>> before he got hurt, >> right?

112:14>> So I I don't I don't understand why to not getting the job already, right?

112:20Getting the job, whatever the [ __ ] that even means on August, what is it? August 8th. Uh at at pick 145 or you know the

112:29AD the ADP has plummeted, dude. He's going further than that on DraftKings at times. And it's like, >> yeah, >> since when at pick 130 does the rookie

112:39running back have to be the get the first carry of the season? Since when?

112:43What other back do you draft right there that has to get the first carry of the season?

112:47>> Like I don't understand that bets and stuff.

112:50>> Exactly. And I like all those guy. Like I I'm I'm the contingent value king. I love drafting the backups and all that

112:56kind of stuff, but since when do we avoid the rookie contingent bet or the rookie and he's not just a contingent

113:02bet as you outlined. I I just can't figure it's like I feel like we're double counting with the tutin ADP essentially is what I what I'm saying.

113:09>> Yeah, it's strange to me. I don't when these when these rookies and and you know, he was a day three rookie.

113:16think a little bit he's sort of less of a day three guy in my mind given that he went very early on

113:23day three in a loaded running back class but he was I mean did that's the fact he he fell to day three of of the draft and

113:31so kind of the baseline expectation would be like maybe this dude is nothing maybe he is something but it takes a

113:37year maybe you know speaking of Jerome Ford maybe that's the kind of guy that he is that he basically is nothing and

113:43then they're like oh no we actually really like this guy he's going to be our are locked in back up in year two,

113:48you know, or like Tai Chandler, right, where it's like, oh, yeah, we're we're ready to kind of see what he has in in

113:54year two. And that could still be the case that maybe he just kind of gets red shirted this year. That's definitely a

113:59risk that you're taking with him. But when he's when he's repping with the ones, it's kind of like a three-man rotation

114:07right at the start of camp.

114:10That's like very bullish, you know. And then the the guy who's got his sort of similar skill set in ETN hasn't looked

114:17so great also pretty bullish, you know. I mean, he I think he he has a couple different paths. He could kind of form a committee

114:25with uh with Bsby by the end of the season. That's a win at this price.

114:31That's already a win. But then I also think, you know, BSby as well is not a guy, he was pretty efficient last year

114:39as a runner, but he was really bad as a rookie and people poke some holes in the efficiency in year two because it's kind

114:46of, you know, it was sort of driven by one really good game against the Colts and they were all banged up and stuff

114:51like that. So there's there's sort of things you're like, is this guy even that good? Like the fact that Bigsby is

114:55your early down hammer, does that last all season or is there a point at which you just go, "Hey, this rookie has the

115:04most juice by a mile and has gotten everything down now that it's like week eight. Let's let's see what he can do.

115:11Let's start putting more on his plate."

115:13It's just like we we cannot lose sight of that as we absorb the training camp information. Training camp can't become what this best ball game is about. It's

115:22just a part of it to help us dial in bets better. It doesn't become like, well, oh geez, he's not the starter.

115:28Well, then I guess he's nothing. Like, we're kind of doing the same with Bashard Smith, who I'm getting in the 18th round all the time now after he

115:33kind of ran up. It's like, yeah, okay, he doesn't have the Jerk McKinnon role locked down on August 8th. Like, but

115:40he's in the mix for it. They're talking about wanting him to have it. That's awesome. Like, why why are we not excited about that? I it's it's

115:49honestly strange to me how we're now >> negative Eli Mitchell negative Eli Mitchell reports lately >> negative Eli Mitchell Mitchell stuff

115:55like maybe Mitchell's not even making the team Kyle Williams is another one where it's like Kyle Williams doesn't have the locked in wide receiver three

116:02roll I think that's probably like a little bit more concerning given the competition is Kan Booty but like >> they just got bodies

116:07>> they yeah they've got and and Diggs missed the other day Diggs was not out there for 111s he came back later he was

116:13fine but we got to see like what does this look like when Diggs isn't here and it It was Booty, Pop Douglas, and Kyle

116:20Williams. So, like, he's very clearly the number four. The Jack Bash stuff.

116:23Like, everyone's freaking out about Jack Bash. Like, >> I'll take a bunch of free Jack B. I he probably's no good, but

116:30>> like we're getting him in like the 170s, 180s, 190s now cuz he's not a clear-cut start on August 8th. Like, yeah,

116:40Thornton flipping >> I don't know >> or is flipping him in many rooms.

116:45Yeah, I actually think Horton probably Thornton should flip him, right? But >> but that's now it's going to be the perfect time to buy to get your

116:53get a bunch of Jack B because you're getting the second round draft capital.

116:55It's like, oh, he wasn't >> he's not ready to play outside. He's he's kind of more of a slot. He's deplicative with Jacobe Myers. He's not

117:03really ready to play like outside day one.

117:06Okay, but like we just saw Paw be like one of the dudes you need. So betting like blind bet on draft capital at a

117:13much higher price works and then you go uh in this case the competition for him once he can you figure it out enough to

117:21like pass Trey Tucker who was pretty bad last year on the outside like if you're any good at all you probably can you

117:28know by the end >> Tucker run the most routes in the NFL last year or something >> somethingical he had like a 0.8 something yard. It was

117:37It was rough.

117:38>> Really bad.

117:40>> So, I don't know. I mean, the training camp stuff is it definitely matters. I I feel like I'm kind of on the like we

117:47really need to pay attention to training camp side of the argument typically, but just in a couple cases where it's like,

117:52hey, oh geez, this guy really thought he was going to start this year and now he definitely won't in any games because he's not the starter

118:01today.

118:03Nope. That's not how that works.

118:06>> I am wholeheartedly on the we need to pay very close attention to to training camp stuff, but there's there's nuance

118:14to that, right? Like nothing has been said about tootin that. So paying attention is like uh I was into to

118:24Kaitton Mitchell. I was into Tory Horton in into some of these guys um that like are getting constant positive not just

118:32like coach speak saying they're playing well but like no this guy right Tory Horton is running with the ones right they had their first scrimmage and Tory

118:38Horton it's not MVS it's Tory Horton as the starting third wide receiver next to Jackson Smith and Jigb and Cooper Cup

118:45right that is notable if it's something like truly catastrophic like Germaine Burton last year right where they're like this guy's a [ __ ] [ __ ] you

118:54know and you're Oh, well, yeah, you didn't know that when you drafted him, but uh like like that kind of stuff

119:00where it's like, oh, no, this dude's buried, right? He's he's been bad at camp. They've never said a negative word about Tootin. It has nothing to do with

119:07Tootin. It's just like, yeah, like Tanks getting this the first reps, you know, and it's like I don't know. E I I kind

119:13of feel like all the camp stuff has been bullish for Toutin, like overall, like you said, just cuz it's not perfect, I

119:20feel like it doesn't have to be perfect.

119:22It can be generally bullish. I think you said it perfectly. The worst case scenario would have been like, "Oh no, >> Cohen loves ETN. ETN is the dominant

119:30back in this backfield cuz they're a little bit duplicative in like the way that they would take over the backfield whereas Tank is a different stylistic

119:38type of a player and they could they could really play well together. ETM could get traded for all we know. Like

119:45uh the like I you know I'm not betting on any of that kind of stuff, but like who knows what happens, right? And I I

119:52think it's been a good run out for Toutin. And those are the ones where I'm like, "Yeah, I'm I'm fading this

119:57whatever this FUD is about this guy and pouncing on him at a cheaper price."

120:02Now, the the camp stuff that I really want to pay attention to is Yeah. like more like just like depth chart related,

120:07but like honestly mostly not the rookies. It's like the depth like Damen Pierce came back, right? And it was like we talked

120:15about the chub stuff, we talked about the mix and stuff and like I don't really believe in the Jaward Jordan thing and we've talked about Woody as

120:20more of a passing down back. Damen Pierce comes back instantly inserted as the first back uh amongst the Texans. I don't really like Damen Pierce, but I

120:28don't know, man. In the 18th round, like maybe I built a zero running back team and I did go with a lot of rookies. I'm

120:33like I could do worse. I can do I can do worse than this.

120:36>> Yeah, you can do worse. Get a couple starts on that. Yeah, just give me a couple a couple of starts following the

120:42training camp news for that that kind of stuff. Like I I don't even really think that anything has changed for Tuton

120:48honestly. So I I totally agree with you and I just wanted to bounce. So be fairly quick with the Dobbins because

120:54we've kind of talked about Harvey and talked about this backfield enough as it is, but I'm playing like that opposite side. So you can draft Tuton, so you can

121:02draft, you know, the contingent bets and the rookies and the Chief. Who do you need? How about the starting running back for the Denver [ __ ] Broncos at

121:11pick at pick 100ish?

121:14Like that seems pretty awesome to me. We are all pretty bullish for the Broncos.

121:18Shawn Peyton, right? We've sung the praises of Shawn Peyton, particularly as it pertains to running backs for quite some time. JK Dobbins was very good just

121:26last season. Do I want to place my chips on JK Dobbins being healthy for all 17 games this year? No, probably not.

121:33That's probably not. That wouldn't be the wisest investment I've ever made.

121:36But on a zero running back team, hand the baton at whatever point you get.

121:42When those legs wear down, JK, hand the baton to Tuton and hand the baton to all these other guys that I've drafted

121:48specifically for the purpose of taking the baton >> from you. Like he fits that like a glove. Um I don't know when it stops for

121:55JK Dobbins. Is it week four? Is it week eight? Is it week 15? I have no idea, but I would bet on it stopping

122:01eventually, but I know it's going to start at the beginning. And uh yeah, Ben Albbright uh is very open and honest

122:08about what he I mean, there's multiple Broncos guys, but Albbright, I feel like very blunt about uh what he sees out

122:13there. And he's like, I I know they're excited for Harvey. He goes, JK Dobbins is a starter. He's like, JK Dobbins is a

122:19starter, he's the starter. I don't care what anybody says. He was doing that with Vele when we were all like, "Is it

122:23Pat Bryant? Is it Franklin?" He's like, "Guys, Devon Vele is a starting wide receiver on the Denver Broncos. I don't know what to tell you. to take to think

122:32what you want, but he's a starter. You know, that doesn't mean we have to draft him. But I'm saying like he's been very

122:37open and and honest about the Broncos.

122:40>> Was that this year or last year when you're this year? This year.

122:42>> This year. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard the same thing. He's the he's the locked in RB2 or Franklin is popping. Like

122:48Franklin's having a very good camp and that's very intriguing to me. Um because I really like Troy Franklin as a prospect. So I'm a sucker. I'm a I'm a

122:55Speaking of year two guys that I'll be a sucker for. Um, and uh, Bo Knicks, obviously they they played together. Bo

123:02Nick said something that just added to the list of things that have stuck in my brain that like uh, last year he was

123:08focused on like learning like how to play in the NFL and play in the Broncos offense. And this year he's just focused

123:14on getting open.

123:16>> Um, which is like he's like that's what Troy does. But last year he was just like overthinking everything. So he

123:22wasn't able to like be Troy Franklin.

123:24And then you saw the drops, right?

123:25Remember all the drops and everything last year? Yeah. So anyway, I'm excited for Troy Franklin, but the Broncos are telling like they're honest, dude.

123:32They're not full. Shawn Peyton could be full of [ __ ] but the Broncos who are observing uh the folks in the media are

123:38telling us the case and it's like >> JK Do like JK Dobbins plus Tutin is just like an incredible zero running back

123:45hearing. Like I like they're running a relay and they they they pair perfectly together.

123:49>> On the point about like he's a starter and stuff, I mean, I'm sure that that's right. you know that it's but it's like

123:58but also that's not the game we're playing. Our job isn't to predict >> week one starters correctly.

124:05>> And then you also like what does starter mean because they they rotate their wide receivers a ton.

124:14So like it's not like he's he's not going to have like 95% route participation. He's going to he's going to be the he's going to hold that job

124:21down more often than not. probably be in the 70% 75% range, something like that.

124:25Maybe 80. Okay. But then you also have to go like, well, is Devon Baylor like any good at all? He's seventh round

124:32pick. He's an older receiver. He's got that big body kind of vibe that they like. Um, he he had 1.43 yards per hour

124:40run last year, which is not terrible, but he didn't exactly like pop. And then he's got competition coming behind him, not just from Franklin, but from Pat

124:50Bryant and everything. So, Yeah, I you know, Dobbins being the starter also doesn't mean that he's going to be the the starter all year, but the nice

125:00about him is like I have that same worry about >> Tony Pard and Aaron Jones and, you know, >> Shouba Huard wouldn't be the craziest

125:11thing in the world if like he he lost James Conor, you know.

125:14>> Yeah. James Connor. Like James Connor's a really good one. Uh, Camaro probably just start for the for the rest of our

125:20our lives. Um, but yeah, >> Kendrick is never going to be a thing.

125:24The fantasy gods would not allow me to.

125:26>> They wouldn't allow they wouldn't allow it. But Vis Jones.

125:30>> Yeah. Uncle Vis.

125:32>> Uncle Vis becomes the starter.

125:36>> Devin Neil like we were all just supposed to be saved by Deon Neil from all of this silliness in New Orleans.

125:42And now Yeah. It's God.

125:45>> Yeah. No, he's he's somehow still safe, but you know, lots of these other running backs could lose their jobs.

125:51>> Guy is Chamra. Unbelievable.

125:54>> And you know, Dobbins probably loses. I would bet uh I'm betting pretty heavily actually by drafting RJ Harvey that that

126:01he will lose that job. But um yeah, I think they're both really well priced.

126:06I've said before basically I think the key the the answer to this question probably just yes. Draft draft Denver Broncos running backs. It's an easy one

126:13to be like totally don't get anchored to last year of this backfield not having any value. The offensive line's awesome that you get you get the quarterback

126:21taking another step forward. The passing game might have like enough maybe it doesn't have like many kind of full-time weapons, but it's like kind of, you

126:31know, greater than the sum of its parts sort of thing. They're able to actually attack with with these guys who can all

126:36do kind of different roles. Um, and so they put up a lot of points and both these running backs are just great

126:43picks.

126:45>> 100%.

126:48>> All right, back to you. You got two left and I got hero running back, which I still don't know my answer. Still don't

126:53know my answer.

126:54>> I'll I'll say Jaden Daniels for elite quarterback. Um, which you know I I like Josh Allen too, but Daniels is like a little bit more

127:03fun I think with Well, so this hasn't worked yet, but I'm attempting in some slows. We'll see if it pulls. I am attempting to try to get

127:14if I can get Jaden Daniels in the fourth and then see if Terry McLaren comes back in the fifth. That's that that's my

127:19dream. Um, but I was doing a decent amount of Terry McLaren and Jaden Daniels at the three four turn and yeah,

127:26seeing some Jaden Daniels fall to the fourth. You don't see Lamar Jackson really fall the fourth. You don't see Josh Allen fall to the fourth. I mean,

127:33maybe outside of that like the 401. Um, but yeah, Jaden Daniels will sometimes fall to the the mid4th and maybe, you

127:42know, maybe in like 408 kind of kind of range and he's just got way too much upside, you know, to have that discount relative to

127:49the the top two guys. So, I I always find that very fun. We'll take some some Debo occasionally with him. And then

127:58Zach, I honestly I think is a pretty good pick. And then you get uh JCM now.

128:03We're all excited about that.

128:05So yeah, just uh just a not as stackable as Lamar. And I was just going to say Lamar, but uh yeah, Jaden Daniels was

128:14pretty fun, too. Uh my damn keyboard, I believe, just uh just shot shot the [ __ ] or Streamyard is not cooperating with

128:22me. So I'll get that pulled get the board pulled up in just a just a second.

128:27But, uh, I mentioned earlier that I, uh, I was just like, you know, off the off the cuff saying Lamar is the best

128:36quarterback in the NFL. And I remember, uh, had a a show with Calm and uh, Sean Seagull earlier this

128:47summer, and Shawn pulled that, but with Jaden Daniels. You know how he does. He he he puts the hot take in there and

128:55says it so casually amidst this other point >> where we were talking about something else.

128:59>> He sneaks it in there >> and and he just goes, "Well, you know, Jaden Daniels is already the best quarterback in the NFL and so blah blah

129:05blah," you know, and he keeps going. And I was like, >> "Wait, what? What did you just say?

129:09Jaden Daniels is already the best quarterback uh in the NFL." But I mean, I I think that's a little too bold for

129:17my taste, but that's just how highly I think of I think of Lamar Jackson specifically. Um J, it's certainly possible. Like there's another I mean, I

129:27know that there's definitely more leaps in Jaden Daniels uh NFL game if this Terry thing gets gets resolved. We're getting a discount uh I think

129:37specifically right now and in this moment because of the Terry McLaren drama, but also just a general discount on Jaden Daniels relative to Lamar

129:44Jackson, Josh Allen. Jaylen Herz is in the midst of flipping him or has flipped him at least on some on on some sites

129:51and it's like what if we're all just way overreacting to all this kind of stuff and like maybe the like absolute

129:57superstar secondyear >> player who won the Heisman Trophy and like broke all these records in college and like is an like truly like the next

130:07Lamar Jackson as a runner like he's that dynamic is like maybe that guy we can just like draft him you know and like I

130:14look at my exposure like constantly and see the Daniels and it's like I I still can't stop clicking Herz and Lamar and

130:21Allen.

130:22>> I know.

130:22>> But but but I'm just like I I really got to get this Jaden Daniels stuff up. I I I I just have to make it happen.

130:30>> No, I I feel the same way. I've been it's been kind of a struggle for me to get to where I'd like to be on all the

130:36elite quarterbacks because um I like a lot of picks in that range, you know, and I want to be overweight on too

130:43many guys. But >> yeah, Daniels has been one where I' I've definitely noticed in these slow drops like, "Oh, Daniels is here still.

130:50Sweet." You know, um so big fan of that.

130:55Uh I've got to figure out who the hell I'm going to take as my punt tight end.

130:58This is just >> and I'm trying to figure out my I only want to say Jir Gibbs. So this is very

131:04difficult to >> I literally only want to say Harold Fannon >> because what my backup my backup was going to be. So here let's just talk

131:12through some of the these options and then uh because we can honestly both say Jir Gibbs and Harold Fannon but talk

131:17through the honorable mentions. Okay, let's do some honorable mentions for hero running backs and punt tight ends.

131:24So, what I would have said that wouldn't have been an honorable mention that I would have been happy to say, but I'm

131:28shook by the Slater injury is Amari and Hampton. Um, >> yeah.

131:34>> As kind of like a unique third round hero, right? Get your Bowers or McBride in the second, get a superstar wide

131:42receiver in the first or what, you know, however you want to play it. Take two wide receivers, take [ __ ] Lamar in

131:49the second round. I don't know. Of course, three four turn. I I will say three four if we get back to 34 turn

131:55Hampton he could be the answer here because of what you can do at wide receiver at the one two turn >> uh uh like is just you know in insane

132:04sometimes we're getting puka now like uh just the draft this morning I was like I got I had the 105 I took Gibbs and the

132:12112 gets like you know Puka Nico or something and I'm like that's just so stupid. I'm like this is just that's

132:19like I'm happy about my Gibbs Trey McBride or whatever, but I'm like this got two top five wide receivers on the planet at the at the

132:27one two turn. Like that's just so foolish. And then like you can get Hampton. You could get one you could get

132:31Hampton Daniels, Hampton Herz, Hampton KD or whatever at the 34 turn, which like as like a kind of modified hero running back, right, is like

132:40>> is pretty sick. But I just don't really love any of the rest of the like expensive running backs.

132:49>> Well, I think CMC is probably your best.

132:51>> Yeah.

132:52>> Where he's just like it's if he's CMC then you can just he's hold like there there aren't a lot of option. There aren't a lot of

133:00outcomes where like CMC was a good pick in the first round and doesn't just like consistently fill a running back spot

133:08for you. like a spiky CMC is kind of like that CMC is probably missing games, you know?

133:15>> Yeah, >> because I mean >> I'm still putting >> or he's spiking but just like not nearly enough like it given the way that

133:22offense is designed that >> you know he's such a core part of what they do. He feels a little bit binary to

133:29me in a way that I find a lot less fun and appealing than Jir Gibbs. But but he has that same kind of thing where if he

133:36hits he just like he he is the backfield.

133:40>> I think I think Saquon also like you're you're betting that they just basically do do it again. They're just able to

133:48>> you know every week they're just running downhill and defensive lines don't stand a chance. I think he could be very

133:55consistent even though he doesn't have the receiving profile. You know, obviously he was last year. So, those will probably be the guys for me.

134:02>> He falls a little bit. I have I I full transparency, I have nonzero I had zero Squan. I currently have nonzero Saquon

134:10because you'll also get in some rooms like Bejon flipped him >> by by ADP. Um and the Gibbs stuff is we're not alone in the the Gibbs love

134:20and Sidi will often go in front of him sometimes. Jefferson also like all those guys will go in front of Saquon and then

134:25it's like okay like 107 or whatever like yeah uh I I can do this I I I'm interested in that. So um Saquon I think

134:34is a wow Saquin a good choice like every running back bro is like no no [ __ ] dumbass like uh it's Saquon Barkley.

134:41>> I think Han deserves to be in the conversation >> as well. Yeah probably.

134:45>> Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think if he's if he's the guy you wanted this year then he really fits that. If the Dolphins, if

134:52the last year and a half of the Dolphins is not real and it's it's back, they they can somehow get back to those early

134:59Mike McDaniel days and like a champ like right there's this is a lot of ifs uh which is kind of the concern for really

135:06the Dolphins overall top 15 pick. Yeah, it's it's very concerning. But >> if what we saw last year from the role,

135:16which I don't think we have any reason to really not not believe that that's the role despite Tyreek wanting uh Jaylen Wright and Olly Gordon to get the

135:24to get the the short yardage uh work.

135:28if the role last year is pretty much real, give or take a little bit here or there, a couple percentage points and we

135:36get some efficiency back because last year he was just a [ __ ] Mike Davis level volume bet for most of the season.

135:43Like catch a bunch of checkdowns and score some touchdowns, but you're really inefficient. But obviously the the whole case for him coming into last year was

135:51this dude's the most efficient running back in the history of fantasy football.

135:55Obviously, we're not going to get that on volume, but if you get like some form of a blend of both, we could definitely

136:01look back and be like, "Uh, yeah, you idiots. Remember that guy who was ripping off 70 yard touchdowns like crazy and then also got the volume?"

136:08Like, isn't that the exact bet that like we're supposed to be making? But it just doesn't The dolph the the Dolphins vibes

136:14are just >> If they had if they had an offensive line, it'd be so much easier, but the the line's no good. They they they

136:20haven't been able to figure that part out the entire I mean Mike McDaniels most likely will get fired this year and

136:25it's it's really because they never figured out the offensive line.

136:28>> I think he's fake the most fake sharp coach of all time and he's cool. He's got great funny quotes and stuff like

136:36that. Like the most recent one was one day closer to death. Uh it's it's a great day cuz we're all one day closer

136:46to death. Like Jesus, man. Like just >> Hey, man. He worked for Shanahan for a long time.

136:51>> Yeah. Good lord. Uh just Yeah. All they're those guys are very morbid. The Shanahan tree.

136:58>> But uh I I just don't have very good vibes with the with the Dolphins. That's holding me back a little bit. And maybe

137:03that's stupid, but it is what it is.

137:05>> Um on punt tight end, I would say honorable mentions for me would be um Mason Taylor, but then he gets hurt, so

137:14I'm not picking >> my ankle. Yeah, >> my ankle. Yeah, but he would he would have been a a good backup. And then I I

137:21think Pat Frymouth um who's now completely free and it's like he's good. Um obviously his role is uncertain and everything, but you know,

137:31we're s we're talking about Harold Fannon and how oh don't worry, he's not going to run all the routs, but Pat

137:36Farmouth, you know, he's also not going to run all the routes, but we know he's he's good. Now, I also know he's not a

137:42like true superstar gamechanging kind of tight end, which which is not great. And then I also feel pretty confident the Steelers are going to have a lot less

137:50drop backs than the Browns, even if the Browns are trying to, you know, be kind of more balanced than they were before.

137:57>> What would make you think that Arthur Smith, Mike Tomlin, and Aaron Rogers trio together?

138:01>> I don't want to go out on a limb here, but uh Javon Sanders I throw out there is a guy that I, you know, I think has some

138:08upside. he's been kind of in this committee a little bit and he probably is again, but you know, we could see him

138:15maybe emerge as a as a pass catcher um down the stretch.

138:20>> Uh but yeah, man, there's not a lot. I mean, likely, frankly, he's probably someone if he continues to fall, we

138:26could talk about, but he's more like I'm taking him now only when he falls. I still think his ADP at 162. I I'm doing

138:33other thing. I I I that's not really even a punt because I take like Brentton Strange around there. I take >> Hunter Henry around there. Um so he's

138:42still a little Zack Z and I don't really think those guys are punts. Those are guys kind of the last of the you know

138:48before the tier break. I I would say maybe Kate Dotton would be another honorable mention where he hasn't really been at camp and

138:57uh I don't think there's any concern for week one, but you know, it's been very quiet because he's not really been out

139:01there and um you know, most likely he's going to be the number four target in the pecking order uh beyond the

139:10backfield, but he's you know, he might be five, you know, once you factor in Bucky. So that's not that fun. But he is

139:18going to run all the routes and so you could just like [ __ ] some touchdowns from him and, you know, get get 40 and a

139:26touchdown, get four receptions out of him in in a week where you need it. I think, you know, he's kind of just like,

139:33hey, I don't want to take a zero type of type of play, but it's at least at tight end where, you know, getting 12 points

139:40can really matter. Um, so you know, he's he's very very cheap for a guy who we're not really concerned about not running

139:47all the routes. And then the other honorable mention would be Daltton Schultz.

139:52>> Oh god. Who's so gross, but dude, I mean, he's he's probably going to run 75% of the routes there. And um we we

140:02generally like the Texans offense to to bounce back this year. So he and he is free, like truly truly free. uh goes

140:11undrafted now a decent amount. So, >> Mhm.

140:13>> he's gross, but uh yeah, another dude I think you at least have to to consider like when you're when you're like, man,

140:19I I just need to add bodies to this room. Uh Schultz and Autton I think provide a little bit. Those are your

140:26routes bets and then Fryouth and Fannon are kind of more your talent bets.

140:31>> There's kind of more talent. I think the Texans could uh even if they don't like fully bounce back like we're hoping just

140:39pass more with this mixing chub stuff.

140:43Like I know I brought up Damen Pierce, but that's kind of the [ __ ] point is like if it's Damen Pierce and Woody

140:48Marks and Jawar Jordan British Brooks.

140:51Like I don't think we're building the plane out of British Brooks and Damen Pierce on offense. like let's let CJ Strad throw a little bit more and and

141:00you know that's good for all those pass catchers.

141:03>> Here's a here's a question.

141:04>> What teams if the Cowboys were to cut Javvante Williams, what teams would actually sign him?

141:10>> Demo would sign him for for sure.

141:13Javvante Williams is the most De Mo Ryan's ass running back of all time.

141:17He's not interested in talent. He's interested in are you going to run through a motherfucker's face and block somebody.

141:23>> You don't care, dude. He'd like be the starter tomorrow.

141:26>> CJ Straoud, Nico Collins, Tank Dell, and Stefon Diggs. And the only thing that got Demo Ryan fired up was a [ __ ]

141:34third and five run by Joe Mixon. Like that's all he wanted to do. It's like, dude, there's clips of him from like the

141:40I don't remember. I don't remember what if it was just ESPN or something where he's Deik Ryan looks like he's about to

141:46like foam at the mouth being like run it down their [ __ ] throats. Like, you know, he's like yelling at what's his

141:53name? PF Bobby. And it's like, dude, how about throw it? Like what? Like he like he wants he is that guy that wants to,

142:00you know, like you talk about Dan Campbell like being ahead of all these guys. Like I think Demetico Ryan is a

142:05good guy. I think he's a a generally good head coach. The players seem to really like him and all that that vibe

142:11or whatever, but he is like what people thought Dan Campbell would be, the meatthead former football player. Like he's a former, you know, allp pro inside

142:20linebacker and he coaches like it. And it's like that that is that is the most Javvante Williams ass landing spot of

142:27all time.

142:30>> Three yards in a cloud of dust. Javvante just running right into the back of his own offensive line cuz they suck ass and

142:36he suck he doesn't know where to go.

142:39>> Uh I got one more honorable mention. So first of all, Javian Sanders I do think is like maybe the most notable from like

142:44you said kind of a talent bet and Bryce was better >> uh when he when he you know came back.

142:51So I think there's a little bit of uh different couple different different things and like he was pretty before he got hurt. I remember somebody I so I

142:57don't have the like to but so week seven he had 3.6 6 yards per route run. Then week eight was nothing. But then week

143:04one n week nine was 4.35 yards per route run. Week 10 nothing. But then week 12 4.9 yards per route run. So like he

143:10wasn't running mega routes but he was like being pretty efficient over like a month and a half stretch or something and then he got hurt and then it was

143:16like now okay you know season over. So it was kind of like he was like almost breaking out and then it kind of like

143:22Keon, right? Keon was popping a little bit and then the wrist thing. Just Sanders was kind of slowly starting to break out and then uh fell apart. So, I

143:30do think he's interesting.

143:32>> And then the other guy that I'm getting total Zack Z vibes.

143:37>> This is this is the Zack Z play of the year >> is Tyler Higgby >> for the Rams. Uh, you know, boring as

143:46old dustball veteran, but has been somewhat effective. You know, Z was a little bit more effective, but I mean, Higgley's had some very real fantasy

143:55production >> over the course of his career >> in this offense. and the team drafted a rookie tight end in the second round and

144:02so we're like oh no you know eventually Ferguson's gonna take this thing over and you know Higgy's the mentor he's going to pass baton but like sometimes

144:12like you talked about year two bet like a lot of these tight ends are often year two bets why like they're trying to win

144:17the Super Bowl who knows this could be Higgy's last season in the NFL could be Matthew Stafford's last season in in the

144:22NFL and they just say no sorry uh Ferguson you are our Ben Sinnate and it's uh Uh, and it's it's it's Tyler

144:30Higgby. It's his job. And >> I think there's actually a decent chance of that that that Ferguson really doesn't do much this year.

144:36>> And even so, I I I like Higgby can also be the like if you punt tight end, be the like let Fannon and Zavian and those

144:45guys break out and let him handle the first month of the season or whatever and just get you some usable weeks.

144:50>> For sure. Yeah, that's an interesting one. I haven't drafted much of Higgby, but I don't have too much to push back

144:57on there. I mean, I think he's ahead of Ferguson.

145:00Um, it just like last year I didn't draft like the Davis Allen stuff and it was like Davis Allen, who's the other guy?

145:07Kobe Parkinson. I was like, "This is just going to suck."

145:10>> And I kind of feel like that with the Rams, but that's how I felt with the Commanders, too. So, I think it's a it's

145:18a great great comp to say he could be this year sacks because I was like, "Yeah, yeah, sure, if you give Z all the

145:24routes, but they're not gonna." And then they just did again.

145:26>> Did it. Um, and yes, they totally could.

145:29They like Higgby. Like they talk about Higgby a lot. Like they they're very complimentary of him.

145:33>> It's cuz he can do it all. Um, yeah. I mean, like he's not bad at anything.

145:37He's not particularly great, but he's he's not like and that and that's again, you talked about like the McVey Shanahan stuff is he wants to he wants to play 11

145:46personnel about as much as possible and you don't know what they're going to do.

145:50and Higgy's been a pretty quintessential part of of doing that cuz he's going to catch the [ __ ] checkdowns and play

145:56action passes but he blocks and does all the grunt work and everything. So, um any thing that we missed that you just

146:04wanted to get out there before we uh >> No, I I think we got it covered >> quickly. Zero running back. Uh the

146:11players that unlock every draft strategy here, running back, Bachel Tutin and JK Dobbins, uh which is kind of a tandem a

146:17combo there that you can uh draft.

146:19Honestly, some multiple of these are both Jir Gibbs and Harold Fannon are combos because uh just draft them twice, I guess. Um draft them again. Draft them

146:28today and then draft them tomorrow, I think, is what we're saying about >> do a DK and an underdog draft side by

146:32>> side. Yeah, exactly. Multitable and just keep hitting clicking that >> multi table that we couldn't even like stop. We we had to go honorable mentions

146:40behind those guys.

146:41>> I just I couldn't I couldn't I just thought about like mine saying like Mason Taylor with a high ankle and I was

146:45like I can't do that.

146:46>> Yeah. Like I was like going to say like Han and I'm like I don't believe this.

146:50Like I don't actually believe this. Like I'm just putting Gibbs. You can't make me like I say enough stupid [ __ ] I say

146:56enough stupid [ __ ] like you by myself. I don't need to be forced into giving another bad take just cuz I feel like I

147:02have to. uh uh from a robust from a robust running back perspective. RJ Harvey and Keon Coleman, which is pretty fun. Two kind of different unique

147:11uh stylistic players. Then obviously uh positions, Jir Gibbs at hero running back, elite quarterback Jaden Daniels and Lamar Jackson. Elite tight end Brock

147:19Bowers and uh Trey the Middlechild McBride. Uh we have uh we have figured out great wrestling name that would be uh the middle child McBride.

147:27>> Middlechild >> uh Gino punt quarterback. if you punt quarterback Gino Smith and Michael Pennix. Honestly, I'm going to put some

147:35of these to the test because these are pretty pretty fun. And then punt tight end Harold Fannon. Uh you've got your

147:40breakout series going on and of course as is tradition two and a half hours into the podcast legendary upside subscribers do get 40% off of spike

147:50week. You can use the sidekick in all of Pat's rankings, analysis, everything, and combine it with the draft hacker and draft IQ and everything, which I find to

147:57be extremely helpful down the stretch here, especially when we are doing a whole lot of drafts. It's nice, it's nice, >> a lot of draft, but anything else that

148:06we haven't touched on?

148:07Yeah, I would just note on the sidekick stuff. Um, one of the the big upgrades we did, the big upgrade we did this off

148:14seasonason was to have them um incorporate Sims to uh with the player recommendations driven driven by Sims.

148:21And um that is especially powerful for doing the contests like the Eliminator, which is getting close to filling now.

148:30And um I'm going to be probably slow maxing. Me, too.

148:36>> I'm close. And so, yeah, >> w >> with a format that's not standard and in a bunch of slows, uh, I think the

148:45sidekick is extremely helpful in just, you know, reorient reorienting yourself to a new format um, very quickly as you've got a you power through a bunch

148:55of picks. So, if you're one of the people like me who's going to be jumping in a bunch of eliminator slows, just

148:59highly recommend that. Legendary upside.com/sidekick.

149:03Uh, we have $20 DraftKings bonus tickets available if you fill out a form uh on the site uh legendaryite.com/perks.

149:10Fill out a form and I'll send your username over to DraftKings as a sidekick subscriber. Uh, you're eligible for a bonus ticket to that tournament.

149:18Um, and then yeah, doing the uh the breakout series. I mentioned my Legendary Upside article will be out in a couple weeks as well because that's

149:26that time of year. So, um, yeah, just the just my goal is basically have an article out on the site, uh, at least

149:33every weekday, if not over the weekends, too. Um, and so far I've hit that this week. So, uh, yeah, lots of content

149:41rolling out and lots more. I love it.

149:44I'm trying to get a lot more writing done. We've been doing a lot more on the media side thus far, uh, on the spike

149:50side. So, I I just I myself uh solo am live every Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday at 10:00 a.m. Eastern. I particularly honestly just like enjoy

149:59the Friday show. So, I mean, I enjoy the Wednesday and Thursday shows of course, but the the Friday shows I do like a

150:05recap of everything that happened that week, like from a training camp and the current preseason games and all that kind of stuff. And uh I find it to be

150:12like super helpful. Uh obviously, we use like kind of all the res same resources that you do, right? uh coach speak index

150:1832 beat writers reading everything the athletic puts out there and and just there's so much information I do this for myself and then I'm just

150:28talking about it on YouTube right uh trying to condense it down to the stuff that's the most impactful for all of us

150:33and like what's noise and what isn't and what like right like some of the stuff like we talked about like what starts to

150:38live rentree in my head like they keep saying that thing they keep saying that thing and I'm like I'm not saying to act

150:43on it I'm just saying that like they keep talking about that guy or they keep saying this specific word, right? Like

150:49they're Trayvon Henderson in pass protection comes up like every day and I'm just like that's really notable, guys. Like it it doesn't like change

150:56anything like you know like I'm not moving his ranking or whatever but it's like just like pointing out lots of stuff uh like that trying to trying to

151:05parse all the information because there's just so much out there that's absolutely insane. We did uh I just dropped our college football rankings

151:13for anybody that's a maybe want a little break here down the home stretch and do some college football stuff. Underdog has some fun college football

151:20tournaments and then we just started I know you guys do this uh with ship chasing have for for many years but

151:26we're doing um some slow drafts right now. We're in a a DraftKings 555 slow draft and uh we're recording you know

151:33kind of our thought process to every pick that we have myself, Rob and and and Bernie. Uh we did we took Gibbs in

151:39the first round. uh most notably and uh second and third round picks are coming soon. But we're going to get out of

151:45here. Everybody have uh well, you'll be listening on a on a Saturday. Have a wonderful rest of your weekend. Enjoy the the preseason games. Make sure you

151:52check out everything that Pat's got rolling out at Legendary Upside and then come on over to Spike Week. Get yourself 40% off of the tools and crush these

152:00final drafts down the home stretch. But uh we will see you guys next week.

152:04Peace.

152:07Heat.

152:18Heat.

More episodes from Legendary Upside

6

The Buy Window on Zay Flowers is Closing #bestball #fantasyfootball artwork

The Buy Window on Zay Flowers is Closing #bestball #fantasyfootball

Jul 31, 2026

Jeremiyah Love's Biggest Challenge Might be His Offensive Coordinator #bestball #fantasyfootball artwork

Jeremiyah Love's Biggest Challenge Might be His Offensive Coordinator #bestball #fantasyfootball

Jul 31, 2026

Training Camp News Barrage - Inputs vs Instincts w/ Sackreligious & JSU artwork

Training Camp News Barrage - Inputs vs Instincts w/ Sackreligious & JSU

Jul 30, 2026

Thats Fair - Training Camp News artwork

Thats Fair - Training Camp News

Jul 30, 2026

Legendary Upside

Jul 29, 2026

Top Guy Tuesday - Getting Medical w/ Michael Dubner artwork

Top Guy Tuesday - Getting Medical w/ Michael Dubner

Jul 29, 2026