0:05Talking wide receiver flag plants targets and sleepers with sharp football analysis Rich Rebar. I'm Theo Gremminger, lead fantasy analyst of RotoWire. Dropping our wide receiver
0:15show and I'm so excited to be joined by Rich today. Let's start off right from the top. Pretty much everyone, and I'm
0:21guessing you, Rich, have Ja'Marr Chase or Puka Nacua as their wide receiver one and the other one usually gets to be the
0:27wide receiver two. But we have a conversation now about wide receiver three. Are you on Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Amon-Ra St. Brown, or do you want to
0:37talk about guys like CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson? Who is the wide receiver three in fantasy football?
0:44>> For me this year, I'm I'm about the Sun God. The Amon-Ra's about what I I believe is one of the the most cleanest
0:51first-round picks I think we have after the top, you know, two running backs are gone and these top two wide receivers. I
0:56mean, he's just so rock-steady. I mean, 90 catches every year, 100-plus catches the last four. He has double-digit touchdowns his past three seasons. And
1:05then when you just look at like this layout for the Detroit Lions, I mean, they're favored in 14 games. They're projected to be the third-highest
1:12scoring team in the league. Uh they only play four outdoor games in their fantasy regular season, which we always know is
1:18awesome for Jared Goff, but it's also as a byproduct awesome for Amon-Ra St.
1:21Brown. I mean, he's the wide receiver three the past four years in points per game at home. He's the wide receiver
1:26four in points per game indoors.
1:29Uh and you look at like the start of the season. I mean, they face like Saints, Bills, Jets, Panthers, Cardinals. You're
1:33not scared of any of those teams. So I I just think if this guy plays hurt and he's productive while he's hurt, it's
1:39just to me, I'm going with Amon-Ra St.
1:41Brown. I still like JSN. I made a case uh you know, before you you came over here to your new home about him maybe
1:47being like this year's Saquon Barkley where it's like he's not going to fail.
1:49He's going to be a really good player.
1:51It's just the season he had last year is just going to be extremely difficult to replicate at that like immense level.
1:58>> Yeah, it's an interesting one. I have JSN right ahead of Amon-Ra St. Brown, but they're essentially neck and neck.
2:04Um if you like Amon-Ra St. Brown, it's really become like years ago he was always going behind Jefferson and Lamb, and now he feels like a a safer bet
2:14there. Um the Lions, like you said, you have no concerns about really anything with that offense. That offense should just print. Uh and I think Amon-Ra St.
2:23Brown's just a terrific foundational piece of the offense. 172 targets last year. The guy's just a phenomenal player, and you know he's going to get
2:31those end zone targets as well in that offense. So, love that one. JSN, I'm completely open to drafting right in that exact same range, but if you want
2:39to go Amon-Ra ahead of ahead of uh JSN, I totally totally get it. Let's talk about Blackjack splits, and let's talk
2:46about a pair of former teammates that you're both on in new situations. AJ Brown, who I feel like I'm talking about
2:54every single show right now because so many sharp people like yourself are on him. And then Devonta Smith. Devonta Smith takes over the wide receiver one
3:02role in Philly on an offense that could be more pass-happy and look a little different than we've seen in years past.
3:09And then you've got AJ Brown.
3:11I mean, the narrative is already written. Drake Maye's new number one target. Josh McDaniels, his history of alpha wide receivers having instant
3:19success. Pick pick pick which one you want to start talking about Rich, and then just go ahead and cook what it
3:24takes on both of these guys.
3:26>> We Well, we'll just do them in order. I mean, I I do you have AJ Brown still a little bit higher? Just have a little
3:30more faith in the New England, you know, infrastructure and his quarterback as a passer.
3:35Um you know, what I really love is this this marriage that he's going to have.
3:38One, we've only seen him in the highest offense he's ever played in terms of, you know, passing. He's finished once uh
3:44been a one team that's been the top half of the league in passing. Like he's That's probably going to change here
3:49with him. This is probably the best quarterback he's played with. And just the infrastructure of the offense. I mean, when you look at you know, A.J.
3:56Brown, I mean, this is a guy like the past three seasons playing with a quarterback that's been like an aesthetic shotgun quarterback, has
4:01really lacked like, you know, these efficiency hacks that we got, and that kind of helps him out at this, I think,
4:06stage of his career. Um you look at the over um the past three seasons, he had only 33 um point nine percent of his
4:14targets as play action targets in 2020, 42.9% 2021, 36.7% 2022, but now over the past three years, only 22%, 25%, 19%.
4:25Like, we're going to get those. Um we're going to get to see him run, you know, a lot more stuff with, you know, pre-snap
4:30motion, you know, Drake Drake Maye was 10th in snaps under center last year, Jalen Hurts was 29th. Uh and then also
4:37like, there's some Josh McDaniels factors, too. Like, Josh McDaniels, when he's had an alpha wide receiver, like these guys have have low-key like been
4:44pretty awesome. I mean, in 2022, Davante Adams had 100 catches, 1,500 yards, 14 touchdowns. Obviously, we know about '27 Randy Moss. Uh you know, you've got a
4:53bunch of Julian Edelman seasons in here, too. Like, you know, Josh McDaniels has been a pretty big boon for, you know,
4:59these lead wide receivers, and he just the timing of getting Drake Maye at this point of his career, I think it's so
5:04strong for a good bounce back from A.J.
5:06Brown, who was still really good the back half of last year, from week 11 to 17, cuz he didn't play in week 18. He
5:11was the wide receiver five, uh you know, in points per game. So, you feel really good about him, and then just as a
5:16domino falling, him leaving Philadelphia just opens such a big door for Devonta Smith. I mean, since A.J. Brown joined the Eagles in 2022, Devonta Smith has
5:26run 252 routes with A.J. Brown off the field, and on those plays, he has 29% target per route rate, 37% of the team
5:35targets, 2.6 yards per route run. We know that, you know, that those numbers aren't going to hold up to that high a
5:42degree, cuz there's a difference between A.J. Brown missing a game and then coming into the year without him while you had drafted Mecole Hardman, you
5:48know, you traded for Dontayvion Wicks.
5:50But, those are such extreme high-end splits that like he can shed some of the percentages and still be like a top lead
5:58lead wide receiver. Remember, this is a Fred Biletnikoff winner, a decorated college player who's been nothing but good in the NFL. The Eagles are another
6:05team they have a pretty awesome schedule, uh you know, all the way through the fantasy regular season. Unfortunately, we do open the fantasy playoffs with
6:13like Seahawks-Texans. So, when we do get there we have to deal with that. But, this is a player I think that's going to
6:17provide a really strong value, you know, at that wide receiver one wide receiver turn wide receiver two kind of flip over.
6:25>> Yeah, he's super interesting. I mean, I feel like I've talked about A.J. Brown on so many shows in a row here. So, if
6:30you want my A.J. Brown takes, you can listen to the show with Nelson Sousa, the show with Jacob Gibbs, the show with
6:37with Derek Brown Debro, uh and now obviously the rich one. I'm on him. Uh long story short, I think he's a really
6:43really strong value. Quick head-to-head player uh question for you. We've seen A.J. Brown flip Drake London on Underdog. We've seen A.J. Brown flip
6:53Drake London. I mean, we're talking splitting hairs like side-by-side um in NFFC and they're side-by-side in FFPC.
7:00Do you view Brown as a better pick than Drake London, a younger player who we've seen thrive in in the number one wide
7:08receiver role back-to-back seasons in Atlanta?
7:11>> That's a pretty good one. I do have London a little bit higher still. I mean, there are some questions obviously
7:16just based on, you know, the the the New England offense and Drake Maye being a lot stronger attachment than the Falcons
7:21and the quarterback situation that Drake London's going to face. I do think London can still thrive with Tua, but when you do look at his career splits to
7:27this point, I mean, he has been a completely different player with Michael Penix under center. I think that's more of a a testament to like just how really
7:34good London is uh versus anything Michael Penix is bringing to the table to to unlock a receiver.
7:40Um but, he does have pretty jarring splits, you know, with Penix under center, a guy who's like more willing to take chances
7:46and fit some more tight coverage throws than maybe Tua will be able to. So, I do understand that to a degree, but
7:52London's just been so good anytime he's played the past 2 years. He's on the front end of his still age apex arc, got
7:57that big contract.
7:59Uh, I mean I mean look at the the upside he's had even playing with Michael Penix the past 2 years. Only Jamar Chase has
8:05more 30-point PPR games than Drake London does.
8:09>> It's wild.
8:10>> It's absolutely wild. Um, and let's talk about DeVonta Smith where this is a little bit of a discourse here where I
8:16talked to some smart people who think maybe we're we might be getting a little bit of a head of our of ourselves with this
8:22team. We're seeing Smith rise to like the late second round in some of these wide receiver heavy formats like the NFFC. I've talked about him as a
8:30potential league winner. I think in this A.J. Brown role he could end up giving you an 18-type point per game season and
8:37in a lot of formats you're going to get access to him in like the third round.
8:41What do you think his ceiling outcome is? How enthusiastic are you to draft him?
8:46>> Yeah, I mean his ceiling is still going to go along with I think just the development of Hurts in this in this new
8:51offense. I mean Hurts is on what is 10th play caller, you know, going back to college and we're going to have him
8:57probably under center more for the first time of his career. So, just how does he acclimate to to that, right? You know,
9:03turning his back to the defense kind of really for the first time, you know, since maybe maybe ever. I don't know in
9:08high school if he really played under under center. I'm doubting he did, actually.
9:12Uh, so, you know, just how are they going to get through it? Are they just going to be still a run team as they
9:16find their way through it? But we only have a four-game sample of DeVonta Smith even running 20 or more routes in a game where A.J. Brown's not
9:23on the field and the fewest amount of fantasy points he scored is 14.4 in those games.
9:30Uh, you know, so it's it's like there's a a really high ceiling here. Especially cuz again, like people forget like as a
9:35prospect like this is as decorated as a receiver prospect there there was. Uh you know, coming out of of college, you
9:41know, it was a Heisman Trophy finalist, won the Biletnikoff. So, it's like like this this guy has a like a real like a
9:47immense amount of talent to latch onto and he's at the at the right point of his career where you're going to give
9:52him the the keys to an offense and com- command like a huge target share. I'm pretty bullish on it. I do think that,
9:58you know, there are some guys that maybe if you're doing like a a tiers and saying like could we arbitrage him, it
10:03could be a little bit, you know, deeper, you know, guys like a you know, Zay Flowers could have comparable target shares, right? It just it could come
10:09down to touchdown production, the splits between these guys, right? Like an Emeka Egbuka, um you know, Elijah Mitchell, even guys that can be hyper-efficient maybe with
10:18lower targets, but it just comes down to like who got in the box more.
10:23>> I think he's super interesting. It'll be interesting to see like how much ADP steam we'll see. We're seeing him as
10:28like wide receiver 12 in some formats, so he's he's like flipped Chris Olave.
10:34Could there be potential that he's going to flip Pickens, flip flip Rice, maybe get up to right where Nico Collins is?
10:40It's sort of like new territory for where we're used to having to to draft Smith, but Smith's also given us two
10:4715-point per game seasons. It's not like a theoretical player. Like you said, was the most prolific uh player under Nick Saban at the wide receiver position
10:56ever. Uh some of the stat lines were just absolutely silly at Alabama and he's 27 years old. This is kind of peak
11:02territory for what a smash season could be. So, very interesting player there.
11:07Love when my guests, especially smart ones like yourself, are on Ameka Egbuka.
11:12Shout out to Nelson Sousa, that's one of his big targets this year. Egbuka's been a big flag plan of mine. Scott Barrett
11:18coming around on Ameka Egbuka as well. I think he's got Egbuka well ahead of Ladd McConkey now, which was was nice to see.
11:24I I I caught Scott and Ryan's sort of arguments a little bit. So, I'm on Egbuka, you're on Egbuka. Why should fantasy managers
11:35make him part of their draft >> it's just that anytime you have a player that is drafted at this capital, immediately get thrown in the deep end
11:41of the NFL and have not only good production, but almost historical production. I mean, I saw the the tweet that Ryan Heath had yesterday where it
11:49was like the third most points ever scored for a guy in his first five games. And it we know what happened to
11:54Egbuka in this offense as the season went on. Like it was just a plethora of top-down injuries to the entire offense.
12:00Egbuka himself, you know, had a hamstring injury in week six. We saw Baker, you know, deal with literally like a handful of injuries, a shoulder,
12:08a core injury, a knee, an ankle, an oblique injury. He never missed a game, but his production after the week nine bye completely fell off of
12:17a cliff.
12:19You know, he went from 13 He had 13 passing touchdowns, nine interceptions the final nine games after having 13 touchdowns, two interceptions
12:26prior.
12:27Mike Evans kind of came back. There's kind of this rotation of receiver. The offense itself was just bad. But now we
12:33have Mike Evans gone. And with Evans off the field last year, we saw Egbuka was targeted on 26% of his routes, just over
12:41two yards per route run.
12:43And we're getting this Josh Grizzard's gone, and we're getting Zach Robinson. And Zach Robinson runs a very adjacent offense to the one Liam
12:50Cohen ran in 2024 when Baker Mayfield was awesome. They both were there at the Rams pit stop that he made during that
12:58year when he left Carolina. So I do think we're going to see Baker bounce back. I also think this team is just
13:02suited from a top-down stance to play a lot like a lot a couple previous Lions teams where they can really kind of get
13:09in some some matchups here where like teams are going to be have to throw on them cuz the Tampa Bay Buccaneers front
13:15seven is incredible. Like their front seven, like teams you're not running on the Bucks this year. But their cornerbacks look pretty thin and they
13:22look pretty suspect. And it's going to invite them to be kind of more more pass funnel. I think we're going to see the
13:26Bucks play in some high-scoring games uh because of that and get pushed a little bit to throw. So, all of those things
13:32just kind of line up where I'm like I when I'm in that range and I do want to build the plane out of wide receivers
13:37like in this area like that wide receiver 16 to 35 range. I like so many of those guys and it kind of really
13:44starts with like Ebuka here.
13:46>> Yeah, I love that you're you're going like kind of macro here on these guys that are available in that range. I
13:50agree with you. It's always been that wide receiver like 20 through wide receiver 36 range. We've always been able to find some value. This year feels
13:59like we could find a number of guys. So, really excited about from like a top-down macro. And again, if you want
14:04my takes on Ebuka uh they're on every single show cuz I'm all over them. I think he's a great pick and
14:09I'm well ahead of him in terms of my rankings which you can find over at rotowire.com. Use the code Theo for 15%
14:15off of any subscription. I'll have Ebuka well ahead and he's a guy that I've not only touting, but I'm drafting a ton of
14:22Rich. Emeka Ebuka or Ladd McConkey this year for you?
14:26>> I personally am going to just play the volume game and I just think from a projectable volume stance Ebuka projects
14:31for more targets, but there's absolutely a world where McConkey is just like so hyper-efficient that he kind of can run him can run Ebuka down. But, you like I
14:41said, I'm always going to be kind of a slave to like the little bit of the volume when I'm splitting hairs because
14:45at least just give me a bunch of targets cuz what if Ebuka ran hot, too, in the efficiency department? You know, with
14:50with more targets. That's really the only knock down I have really on Ladd is like you even go back to college. He's
14:55never been like a supreme like target share earner. He only has four games so far through two NFL seasons where he's
15:01even hit a 30% target share in a game.
15:04This uh Chargers offense feel like it's more spread out than the top as top-heavy as the Miami Mike McDaniel offense where it was really the whole
15:12plane was, you know, Tyreek Hill, Jaylen Waddle as receiver and Devon Achane The Chargers feel like they just have more guys to kind of get involved here
15:20than those teams. and we'll see that.
15:22But, if not, you know, this is a guy that has maybe, you don't want to say like he could have like a JSN type
15:27season cuz I don't think he's going to have a 35% target share, but on an efficiency basis, what we're going to get out of Mike
15:33McDaniel is absolutely massive for Ladd McConkey. I mean, you look at Mike McDaniel, uh his first tenure calling plays for the Miami Dolphins,
15:41league-high NFL rate of plays that uh pass plays that had pre-snap motion, 66%. They led the league in uh wide receiver snaps that had one to two wide
15:51receiver sets, and they were number one in the league in play action rate. Ladd McConkey as a rookie like was absolutely
15:57shredding in all of those environments, you know, 4.3 yards per out run on play action passes, 2.95 yards per out run um
16:04uh plays at motion, 3.4 yards per out run in one to two wide receiver sets.
16:09So, like if he gets like all those efficiency hacks, that's awesome. I know a lot of people say, "Well, what about
16:13last year?" And it's again like the Ebuka situation like we have hard soil evidence of what happened to the Chargers. It wasn't a a Ladd McConkey
16:20thing, everyone in the offense died.
16:22From week 10 on, the Chargers were 27th in yards per play, 27th in offensive success rate, 29th in explosive play rate, 27th in points per drive. Like it
16:30wasn't a Ladd McConkey thing, it was a top-down systemic thing that's going to flip over here for them this year.
16:36>> Yeah, it's a lot of those a lot of those splits in that offense where you look at like with Joe Alt and without Joe Alt,
16:43like very simply uh just Justin Herbert had like 50 more passing yards per game.
16:47It might have been higher than that. Uh and they just could It was It was like night and day with those guys. They get
16:52back Slater, they get back Alt, they really addressed the interior offensive line, and then you get Mike McDaniel.
16:58So, I've talked about this one a lot this off season both here at Rotowire, and then when I was at Fantasy Points.
17:03It's sort of I view McConkey as kind of a structural pick. I think he's fine. He's not somebody I'm willing to reach for, and I
17:11think he's going in a range of wide receivers where maybe like the upside case for them, I I think I lean into a
17:16little bit more. Like you said, it's like the Igbinoghene volume for me it's a kind of night and day. I'm well ahead
17:21of Igbinoghene than Mims and they kind of go close enough with one another.
17:25Let's talk about Zay Flowers. And this is one where all off-season long I on Dynasty Life I talked about like trade for Zay Flowers.
17:33I talked about taking Zay Flowers. I had this conversation with Mike Shope cuz we were in the Hard Way draft in FFPC
17:38league which is one of those like early early drafts. We did it like in May and I drafted Zay Flowers the end of the
17:45fourth round and I think there was another FFPC league a big one where Mike did it where he also got Flowers the end
17:50of the fourth. That that is gone. Like Zay Flowers has steamed up and there's a lot of enthusiasm for him. A lot of guys
17:57like yourself are talking about what a ceiling outcome could look like for him and now we're having to use sort of a
18:02late third round pick instead of like a fourth round pick in this kind of a format. Where are you at on Flowers? How
18:08good can he be in the Decklin Doyle offense and there's just you know, I'm wondering kind of your your rationale with him. I
18:14mean for me it's like the pass volume could increase dramatically. They could be like not last in the NFL in pass
18:20attempts this year. The tempo could be better. And then if you look at like positive touchdown regression, Flowers certainly has that. Maybe they actually
18:28target him in the end zone a little bit, but the guy just feels like could explode in so many ways whether it's
18:33target volume, whether it's tempo, whether it's touchdowns and we know he's very good at football.
18:40>> And that's really where it starts. I mean this is a guy who is a was a first round pick. He's increased his receiving
18:44yardage every year in the NFL. He's a he's accounted for a higher target share every in the NFL. He just commands more
18:50opportunities with as well he's he's played. The one bugaboo like you can't I mean the guy is 16 touchdowns through three NFL seasons and it's because of
18:58the utilization and he is a smaller player than these other guys we talked about. And so some of that is not just
19:04you know, particularly just like he's going to be due back for bounce back.
19:07Like we need to see this new coaching staff utilize him in that area of the field, right? Like his career end zone
19:14target target shares in the red zone, 20%, 11.5%, 19.2%. His target shares outside of the red zone, 23%, 28%, 30.4%.
19:25So, like that's just where it has to flip for him, but we've seen this with some guys in their career.
19:30You know, Amon Ra being a guy we led off the show with, right? Everyone was like, oh, is this going to be a guy that ever
19:33scores touchdowns? He just got he found the marriage of the of a play caller who was like, yes, we will dial up plays for
19:38him in the red zone. And we're probably going to have a little bit of flip this year for the Ravens with this coaching staff. We'll see if
19:44like he can contest cuz the one thing that this is still a question mark is the Ravens brought in all class years,
19:49right? You still have Mark Andrews, but the two rookies they drafted, Jacobi Lane and Elijah Serratt, like where do you think they're going to be involved?
19:56Probably down here, right? Down near the paint. So, I like I think I'm like FFPC, more full PPR, I'm a little more bullish
20:04on Flowers. I'm still having a little bit more of a question mark and like if you're you know, on Underdog and you're
20:08not in the full PPR stuff, I think that could be still a potential range of outcomes where here he's still like a
20:13four to six touchdown guy. But if he ever does just flirt with, you know, eight plus touchdowns, now we're cracking the door here and he's going to
20:19run down some of these guys that are going at the like at back end wide receiver one range because his utilization is just higher than those
20:26guys.
20:27>> Yeah, I think it's an interesting one where you bring up the Amon Ra St. Brown stuff and it's I think it's just a
20:31cautionary tale when it comes to wide receivers where, you know, you get in these like narratives and and people start repeating them and it's like the
20:40narrative is not always written. Narratives can shift dramatically. We saw it last year with JSN. I remember a huge fantasy football voice who will
20:50remain nameless who was comparing Amon Ra St. Brown to Julian Edelman when we we got steamed up in ADP and they're
20:56like, oh, this is Julian Edelman again, we're taking him too high. Guess what?
20:59He's not Julian Edelman, he's a little bit more alpha than that one.
21:02So, Zay Flowers, I think that's a really interesting take and I think you know, that 3-4 turn for PPR, I think it's
21:08going to return value. If he steams up much, much more, it becomes more of a conversation. We talked about a bunch of
21:14guys kind of going in that high-end wide receiver two range. Let's talk about a guy who's a low-end wide receiver two.
21:22Is Jaylen Waddle the best value in what at the wide receiver position right now, Rich?
21:27>> He's He's one of them and I understand why he's like hanging out where he is like in terms of ADP because people are
21:33like, "Oh, I've I've been told Jaylen Waddle's going to be this, you know, awesome fantasy pick for, you know, so many years and it hasn't really paid
21:40off."
21:41Uh so, that's why he's kind of, you know, staying down here. But, I mean, he he's set up again to be productive. We
21:46saw last year from weeks 5 to 17, he was the wide receiver 12 in target share, wide receiver one in air yards, wide
21:52receiver 10 in target rate per route run. He just played on a team that was 30th in pass attempts. You know, he's
21:58the Denver Broncos, uh you know, obviously you know, they were number number one in pass attempts. That's going to come down a little bit because
22:04they're going to be a little more balanced than when they had to shift to the RJ Harvey offense. But, when you
22:08look at the structure of this offense and what they want to do, uh Denver when they threw the ball to wide receivers
22:13last year, they ranked second in the league in screen target rate, third in go ball rate, 12th in crossing target rate. Those are all like monster areas
22:21where Jaylen Waddle excels. And we already saw last year there was a stretch of the season where Troy Franklin was the actual engine of the
22:28passing game over Courtland Sutton. So, like they're clearly they looked at what they were trying to do with Troy Franklin and they're like, "He's just
22:35not good enough to do this. What if we just go upgrade and we get a player that can do all these things we want to do."
22:42And that's it really kind of what we looked at look at Jaylen Waddle in this offense doing. Um they're they're also
22:47going to shift a little bit, I think, play a little bit more tempo with Davis Webb. Davis Webb has been consistently
22:51One thing that comes up with everything he's given us kind of privy to us to what he's going to change cuz there
22:56probably won't be wholesale changes out of the Sean Payton offense, but he's talked about tempo. Tempo, tempo, tempo. He's consistently gets that
23:03involved. So, Denver still has no tight ends to worry about here, too. So, yeah, you look at Jaylen Waddle. I mean,
23:10I'm just like everything kind of sets up for him to still be to take advantage of him just kind of floundering in this ADP where everyone's
23:17like, "Ah, I've been told he's going to be good." But, I have him higher than guys he goes like I'd outright rather
23:22have Jaylen Waddle than K.J. Hamler who goes higher than him. I would rather have him than Jaylen or Luther Burden, which is probably a hot take to some
23:30people, but cuz he's the new thing, right? Like, he's new maybe Jaylen Waddle.
23:36>> Yeah, it's interesting like Waddle, you know, we talked about this one I talked about this one with Pat Corain who's all
23:41over Jaylen Waddle. I went on their show, the Chip Chasing guys, and and they talked we all talked about Waddle.
23:47And everybody likes Waddle. And then Pat sort of talked about the same argument you had where he's got him head-to-head debate like a couple of guys ahead of
23:54him easily Jaylen Waddle. But, we haven't seen him steam up. I think there's another frame of thought where people see him as someone whose
24:04production is going to be somewhat similar to Courtland Sutton. And I think that narrative is sort of was out there right after the trade and it's sort of
24:12settled in ADP. And I I agree. I'm completely with you. Talk about that one. But, I think the fun thing about
24:17Waddle is even if he steams up a little bit in ADP, there's so many of these breakout type guys, guys that are a
24:24little bit younger where I feel like Waddle's not going to run up that much.
24:28I think he could run up maybe seven or eight spots, but I don't think this is like a full round adjustment as we get
24:33to August. I think Waddle's going to remain a guy that you can make part of your draft plan. Talk about the Sutton
24:38versus Waddle thing. Do you think that's a little bit ridiculous after the first, third, and fourth round draft capital they paid and considering Sutton's age?
24:47>> Well, I just think they showed us last year they were trying to convert away from, you know, Courtland Sutton being kind of the focal point of the
24:54offense. The other thing too that the addition of Jaylen Waddle is going to push Courtland Sutton more into like a more downfield role, too. He's going to
25:00be running more routes downfield, which isn't always great, man, for fantasy football points. But, we already saw from weeks 2 to 11, I mean, Troy
25:06Franklin before they started shuffling in Pat Bryant into the lineup because Franklin just wasn't good in the run game. They were trying to find something
25:14uh after the JK Dobbins injury. But, Franklin out-targeted Courtland Sutton, and he out-targeted him in the end zone over that period, 9 to 5. So, it's like
25:22uh they weren't even just dialing up like where Courtland Sutton was the foxhole guy when they got near the paint. Like, they it was they were still
25:28using Troy Franklin, and not even on those screens in the red zone. I said on actual end zone targets. Um the other
25:34thing, too, is he had he also had three two-point conversions, which so they were dialing up plays for him like particularly in like that area of the
25:41field. Like, Waddle's going to accrue uh a ton of that work.
25:45>> Yeah, I love it. I think Waddle's such an easy click right now, and and such an interesting one. You mentioned Luther
25:50Burden, um and you mentioned you take Waddle ahead of him, but you're still in on the Chicago wide receivers. Luther Burden at wide receiver 21, or Rome
25:58Odunze at 20 at wide receiver 28, or is the answer for a lot of people who are listening to us in July, Rich, they're
26:04they're not a one fantasy team type manager. Uh do you have a uh preference to one in a major way, or are you
26:11looking to sort of split the difference, take one when they fall, uh and just sort of invest in the the Ben Johnson
26:17wide receiver room instead of one wide receiver in particular?
26:20>> Yeah, I still want a Ben Johnson pass catcher, and you can include Kalif Raymond Loveland in that as well. So, I
26:25think you you still want to try to get one of these guys so you can always take like the uh the cheapest, you know, apple on the
26:30tree, depending how draft goes. To me, I hate to use it as a cop-out, but I think it's format-sensitive.
26:36Uh I think Luther Burden is a player I want more of in that in that full PPR format, cuz where he earns it is going
26:42to earn his targets, they're going to be a little bit more conducive to playing around some of the shortcomings that Caleb Williams still has in the
26:48continued growth he accuracy issues he still has versus Rome Odunze. But, I still believe Rome Odunze is going to have an opportunity to score more
26:55touchdowns than than he will. I mean, as a rookie, Luther Burden had two end zone targets. That's going to be more than
27:01two this year.
27:02We just talked about, you know, Ben Johnson was a guy who got Amon-Ra St.
27:05Brown involved in near the end zone, but you know, he really only had Sam LaPorta to contend with as you know, an end zone
27:11target over the course of his career where it's like Luther Burden's still going against Rome Odunze and Cole Kmet and Loveland in this area of the field.
27:18And we saw before Rome Odunze's injury, he was the wide receiver nine in end zone target share.
27:24I still think he's going to be really involved there. You know, unfortunately though, like Rome, I think where he's going to run his routes in this offense
27:31and where he's run them his first two years, just more of these downfield targets that runs up against kind of the
27:36the issues that Caleb Williams still has in terms of downfield accuracy. We saw over the the as the season progressed, you know,
27:43Rome Odunze over the final eight games, 27% of his targets were inaccurate. No wide receiver had as many targets him and his higher share of inaccurate
27:50targets. And as a rookie, it was just there 26.7%.
27:54He's still the guy when you look at it, team high 14.1 air yards over the first two years of his career. 26% of his
28:01targets have 20 or more yards downfield.
28:03That still is overlaps like where Caleb Williams has some of his issues, but in these half point PPR leagues like he can run down Luther Burden based on
28:13touchdown equity. So, I think like on like a site like Underdog where people are drafting like Luther Burden's a Underdog ADP is one of the more head
28:20scratching ones to me because there's an absolute range of outcomes where he has like that that 80 catch 1,100 yard season, but like with four touchdowns
28:30and like you're overpaying for that in half point PPR.
28:34>> It's an interesting one. I think a lot of the Underdog market is sort of correlation based and people love building those Chicago stacks. So, it's
28:40sort of like push him up, get your Caleb Williams, and then you can add on one of the running, you know, Loveland, the
28:46running backs. I think Chicago, everybody's sort of open-minded to and gosh, I mean, it's hard to fade Chicago in any way right now.
28:53I've been well ahead on on Burden, Van der Dunze. Do you worry about the foot, Rich, or is that something that you
28:59think is a little overblown?
29:01>> I think it's probably a little bit overblown. Obviously, anytime a player says makes a quote like that, they're like people are going to run with it to
29:07the extreme, but we've already seen like the video of him running and everything.
29:10Like it isn't like it's I mean, it's >> Looks good on a tread Looks good on a treadmill, right?
29:15>> Yeah, but I mean, until like like until he's given his I mean, why are Why is no one talking about Tatero McMillian's
29:20foot? He's not even part of anything.
29:21Like he hasn't participated in anything because of the foot injury he had last year. Rondale is at least participating in stuff.
29:28>> Well, there you go. There you go.
29:29Rondale Moore Dunze definitely the cheaper option of the two and then everybody knows what I think about Colson Loveland, just draft him whenever
29:35you can. Talk about Terry McLaurin cuz last year he was going at the three-four turn in formats like the FFPC, NFFC. He
29:43got steamed up and then certainly on Underdog, everyone was trying to build out those Jayden Daniels, Terry McLaurin stacks. Is this like the post-hype
29:52sleeper year where McLaurin bounces back in a major way with maybe a more fantasy-friendly role in this David Blough offense where they're actually
30:02going to move him around a little bit and and heavily feature him week in, week out?
30:06>> I mean, we already seen 2 years ago his first full season with Jayden Daniels, like he was a value at wide receiver
30:11like in the same area. Like he was being drafted right around here. And you can make the case that he actually is in a
30:17better role than that 2024 role that he was in with Kliff Kingsbury. First of all, when Terry McLaurin even played last year, he was still a really good
30:24player. I mean, obviously, we know he started the summer with, you know, the holdout, then he had quad and core injuries over the course of the season.
30:30He only played on 46% of the dropbacks.
30:33When he did play though, he was 14th in yards per route run of all receivers with 100 more routes. When he was on the
30:39field, he had 31% of the team targets, 46% of the team air yards. Now Deebo Samuel is removed from the offense as
30:45well. Like there's really they'll probably add someone, but maybe they don't. Like we can keep we can keep guessing, maybe they don't. Um we're
30:52interested in what David Blough has in this offense, but the one thing David Blough has preached all off season is that he's going to run more under center
30:59play action stuff. We haven't seen Terry McLaurin get any type of those types of targets, those easy button targets. I mean,
31:06um you look at under Cliff Kingsbury, Terry McLaurin was stuck in the static role.
31:10He lined up on the line of scrimmage for 85% of his snaps. He lined up at left wide receiver for 75% of those snaps out
31:16wide. He was the wide receiver 61 in routes run per game in terms of uh routes that had pre-snap motion. Just
31:22none of these free squares for him. And literally David Blough came in and it told us he's like, "I'm going to try to
31:28get Terry McLaurin almost get 10 targets a game. I want to build around explosives around Terry McLaurin." So you're going to have the explosive
31:35element plus the marriage of getting more play action, more pre-snap motion stuff that have always been efficiency hacks. So he's a guy too that I just
31:42think is getting a little bit undervalued um because again, it's like one of these guys like Jaylen Waddle where people are like, "Win, win, win."
31:49But you already had a season with Jaden Daniels that was value.
31:53>> Yeah, it's it's like McLaurin, there's nothing theoretical. We saw it literally 2 years ago when he could bounce back.
31:58And then I I mean, you love hearing coaches say some say mention 10 targets a game. There's like nothing gets us
32:05going more than that. And sort of the >> [laughter] >> the the teammate target competition like I know you're on Antonio Williams.
32:11There's some smart people on Antonio Williams. Nelson Sosa likes Antonio Williams.
32:15Um and I like Antonio Williams, but you're talking about a third round rookie that's probably my bet to be the number two target
32:23there. I mean, Chigo Okonkwo potentially could be that as well. And Rashad White will get some targets out of the backfield, but this is the Terry
32:29McLaurin show. If McLaurin doesn't deliver in a major way, I think this offense could struggle this year even with Jaden Daniels being awesome. So
32:36they've got a lot invested in McLaurin on the money side and on the scheme and like sort of the offensive usage side.
32:43So, almost too big to fail and he's going in a range where it's cheaper than last year. You're able to get him like
32:49towards the end of the wide receiver two land. Uh so, really a fun one. Could Christian Watson in 2026 be this year's
32:57version of 2024 Terry McLaurin and catch a bunch of passes in a in an offense and we finally get like the answer to what
33:06does a full season of Christian Watson look like from a fantasy ceiling perspective?
33:10>> Yeah, and you see kind of a theme with this like pocket of guys. I mean, I want to take advantage of where gamers are
33:15scared of like previous results, right?
33:17Like these guys we're talking about because when you look at these guys objectively in the situations that they're in for just 2026 in isolation,
33:24they're all positive. They're all pros.
33:27Uh you look at Christian Watson. I mean, last year Romeo Doubs was the only Packer wide receiver to run a route on
33:33over 50% of the dropbacks last season.
33:35They also traded Dontayvion Wicks. Um so, we're just going to see as a core element while Christian Watson's healthy and we'll get to that part of it. Uh
33:43like he's going to be a primary wide receiver in this offense. We are not going to have that Green Bay rotation of
33:48wide receivers that we have had in previous years. It's going to be a lot more condensed and when they're playing one to two wide receiver sets, he's
33:54going to be one of the guys on the field. Uh you know, between Matthew Golden and Jayden Reed. Jayden Reed has
34:00run eight career pass routes in one to two wide receiver sets. Like even if he plays more, it's still going to be uh a
34:06limitation into how many of those snaps he plays. And we've seen just constantly anytime that this guy's played football, Christian Watson is like he's been
34:13productive. Since entering the league, wide receiver 15 in yards per route run, wide receiver 13 in fantasy points per target, wide receiver 17 in fantasy
34:21points per route run. Uh so, if we're getting more routes and he's on the field more, we're going to get more
34:26fantasy points. We also are going to see him build on what we saw last year because when he had to operate as the
34:32wide receiver one for a stretch last year, what did he get? Access to more easy buttons that we talked about. 14.9%
34:39of his routes were out routes, a career high. 14.1% hitches, uh second highest rate in his career. Those are fantasy smoothing opportunities that you layer
34:48in with the post routes and the downfield targets that he earns. So, you get a little bit more of a floor out of
34:55a player that already has a high per target ceiling. We know he's missed time every year of his career. He's played 20
35:00regular season games or missed 20 regular season games over the course of his rookie contract. That's why he hasn't jumped, right? Cuz everyone else
35:07knows this, too, but it's why he hasn't jumped in terms of price. So, I love, man. There are You can get him as your
35:12wide receiver four in some drafts when you're aggressive drafting, but like as a wide receiver three, like he's the archetype of what you want as your wide
35:19receiver three. Like, big play potential and a and it's coming with a target increase and opportunity spike.
35:27>> Yeah, and I'm I'm on Christian Watson ahead of I mean, people don't necessarily like this take, but I'm ahead of of DJ Moore. I'm ahead of Mike
35:34Evans. I'm ahead of Davante Adams. He's going in that range with all those guys, and I think, you know, I'm not going to
35:39talk you off. I know you like DJ Moore maybe a little bit more than I do, and there's some really smart people on DJ
35:43Moore, but I think Watson, like when we're we're chasing ceilings in that range, I I'm kind of all over him, and I think
35:51it's interesting because, you know, you you bring up the the Wicks and the Romeo Doubs thing where it's going to be so
35:57much more consolidated in terms of the wide receiver snaps between like three guys, but Watson will be on the field clearly in two wide receiver sets, also
36:06on the field in three wide receiver sets, and I think that we have a chance for him. I talked about this with Jacob
36:12Gibbs where Watson's sort of always been pegged as a 19% target share guy, maybe 18 and a half percent target share guy.
36:19I think he could get to 22% this year, which for a player like like himself, I I that would be massive. So, I'm I'm
36:26into Christian Watson. I think he's a really really strong click. Uh let us know in the comments what you think about Christian Watson. Now, you got
36:33another one of my guys in here. Um I love Carnell Tate. And I've been like talking about him. Me and you did uh
36:39rookie draft content. We went over on ETR ETR this year and and talked about it with the the draft over there. And we
36:47did that one together, right, Rich? I think.
36:48>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
36:49>> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And then we talked about we talked about Carnell Tate over there. And it's sort of the discourse was Carnell Tate versus Jordan
36:57Tyson.
36:58I think Tyson's fine. I think Mkhai Lemon's interesting. But if one rookie wide receiver is going to be a wide receiver one this year, it's easily
37:06Carnell Tate. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but the vibes are great.
37:10We've seen Brian Daboll fast-track uh new wide receivers that are new to a team twice. We saw it with Stefon Diggs.
37:18We saw it with Malik Nabers. Not saying that Carnell Tate is a Malik Nabers-level prospect, but I do think that the opportunity is there for Tate
37:27to have a monster usage season and be the focal point of this passing game.
37:32So, I'm I'm super excited about him.
37:34What's a bold case for you with Tate? Is it ADP value or is it an upside argument?
37:40>> Yeah, it's it's a little bit of a marriage of both. And uh you know, I like him like less than a guy like, you
37:45know, Christian Watson that we just talked about. But we are getting the number four draft pick that was the first wide receiver in his class at like
37:52a pretty significant discount than like where these guys have historically gone.
37:55So, I want to kind of be in on that and and and and get some exposure through that. Just the saying through the lens
38:00of like, "Hey, these guys really haven't been that cheap before." And I know we've had some failures kind of dictate uh some of the market movement there.
38:07But doesn't mean everyone's going to fail, right? Like And you kind of talked about it. I mean, we saw a rookie Malik
38:11Nabers get 170 targets with Brian Daboll. That was in a season where Wan'Dale Robinson had 140 targets, too.
38:17Like that was adjacent to it. We saw, you know, Brandon Marshall have 142 targets in a Brian Daboll offense.
38:23Stefon Diggs 166, 164.
38:26Um we saw Dwayne Bowe have a 25% target share it under Brian Daboll in 2012 in his offense. So I definitely believe
38:33just from an opportunity stance pending how much the Titans throw, we're going to see Carnell Tate occupy like a a significant target share. You know, it
38:41it all just depends on like the development of, you know, uh Kam Ward in year two. He is a very He had a very
38:47like uh adjacent rookie season to Caleb Williams, you know, in terms of like what happened to him in terms of like
38:52inefficiency, taking sacks, uh his head coach getting fired, and offensive play caller getting fired during his rookie season, and all that's kind of getting a
38:59clean slate, and we're looking to build the building block. Unfortunately, Ben Johnson isn't here, but like Brian Daboll is a good offensive play caller.
39:05I refuse to believe he's not, and I understand people will be like, "Look at what happened to him." Some guys are
39:09made to be called play callers, not head coaches. But I still think he did a lot of things in New York as like fantasy
39:14gamers, we still are like, "Oh, those were positives for what we were looking for." Just didn't all come through because of quarterback play. And um you
39:21know, we're obviously placing faith in Kam Ward in that. But I also believe also where Kam Ward wins as a quarterback
39:27is also aligns with where Carnell Tate showed he won in college, you know, as a guy that can win in the contested catch
39:33game and win down field. I think it's a perfect marriage in terms of uh the best attributes that Kam Ward has and the
39:39best attributes Carnell Tate brings out of packaging as a rookie wide receiver.
39:43So he's probably a little more price sensitive than some of the guys that we talked about, but I definitely don't want to end up with no Carnell Tate
39:49because I do think there's a range of outcomes here where yeah, uh as a rookie decorated target, like he is pushing 150 targets.
39:57>> Yeah. I I mean, now you're speaking my language here, Rich. I mean, Carnell Tate also, like you talk about where
40:02we're having to take him, he's like a mid wide receiver three where I thought there'd be a little bit more steam where when we first started
40:11out with like best ball when those guys got drafted, I thought there was a chance that that we'd see the Tate-Tyson
40:16group rise and rise and rise. It's sort of settled in. So, I think you can make him a foundational piece to your draft
40:22strategy and still get a bunch of the other wide receivers that are maybe a little bit safer that Rich has already
40:28talked about and also have upside. So, I think Tate is priced correctly. Wide receiver 30 feels like a floor ADP rather than a ceiling chasing. So,
40:37really really interesting one there.
40:38Let's go a little bit lower. We're We're in the wide receiver three range. Let's talk about Parker Washington. This is pretty much a discourse of Washington
40:45versus BTJ or is it? Can both of these guys pay off or is there a one that you're leaning towards significantly
40:52when you're evaluating wide receivers?
40:54>> I I just think from a skill perspective stance, I want to bet on Parker Washington if the room is scared of the
41:01Jacksonville situation becoming Green Bay-esque or maybe a little bit too muddy for gamers to kind of uh settle in on. I definitely believe that
41:09Jacksonville is built to be a passing team. We'll see We You and I have already talked about this your previous shows about you know, James Gladstone,
41:16how he kind of approached this off season and do they kind of swerve into being more of a 12 personnel running
41:21team. But I think just structurally they are set to be to run this offense through Trevor Lawrence to spread defenses apart uh spread defenses out
41:30because the offensive line isn't particularly strong and the running back room I think is takes some real kind of you know, uh squinting to see. Even if
41:38Beathard Tuin had the same role as Travis Etienne, people don't realize Travis Etienne wasn't good the back half of the last year. He just scored a bunch
41:46of touchdowns and Tuin can get there through touchdowns, but the offense went extremely pass-heavy because Travis Etienne wasn't good and they couldn't
41:53run the football. Um and you look at where Parker Washington wins. I think that outside-in inside uh usage that he has is just really
42:01something I I believe is is stronger amongst the other guys here in in Jacoby Myers and Brian Thomas Jr. If Jacoby uh
42:09Brian Thomas Jr.'s is a similar role as outside, I mean, dude, has anyone like looked at the opening schedule that Brian Thomas Jr. will face as an outside
42:16receiver?
42:18Uh >> You have, Rich. You definitely have, Rich.
42:20>> I mean, dude, the the opening six games the Jacksonville Jaguars are going to face Denzel Ward, Patrick Surtain, Christian Gonzalez, D.J. Turner, Quinyon
42:29Mitchell, Derek Stingley, bye week. What are the opening 2 months of the season are you going to be like, "Damn, I feel
42:35really good about putting Brian Thomas Jr. in my lineup this week as my wide receiver three flex against one of those
42:40guys?"
42:41Uh not me. He could bounce back as a player, but like I ain't going to feel good about putting him in my lineup
42:45against any of those guys.
42:47>> That's That's definitely definitely about as tough a run out as you can get.
42:51>> It can't get worse, man.
42:52>> The early the early Surtain I I Island game is uh is always a tough one for every any wide receiver. I think it's
42:58interesting. I mean, you talk about Parker Washington. Parker Washington like I I had this conversation with somebody where, you know, I've talked
43:05about drafting multiple Jaguars in this range now where Tuten falls to a range where I'm willing to click the button, BTJ, and then Parker Washington. Like
43:14everybody likes the Jacksonville offense, but we're all trying to figure it out, and they're all going in like that round five through seven range.
43:21Parker Washington settled in as a seventh rounder. So, I'm I lean BTJ over Parker Washington, but it's become like a round difference where when we started
43:30drafting, Parker Washington was going ahead of BTJ, but like the vibes have been good with BTJ, some very positive coach speak in the the beat reporters
43:38talking about how good he looked in OTAs.
43:40>> The connection with Lawrence. So, I think you can draft them both. And I again, the the early season standing uh
43:46schedule notwithstanding, Trevor Lawrence, if we really did turn a corner last year, going with both of those guys, having one as like your wide
43:54receiver three, one as your flex, or wide receiver two in your flex, I think that can pay off. And if you're
43:58searching for stacks, the fact that so many people are splitting it, that you're going to end up in in some of these tournaments like
44:05FFPC Main Events and NFFC Primetime, that could be a really fun stack, a Parker Washington Trevor Lawrence or BTJ Trevor Lawrence or both, and then sort
44:13of mixing in Touton with one of the two.
44:15I think Liam Coen's really smart, and I get access to their guys at a pretty cheap price tag. So, interesting there.
44:20You talk about I bucha, is there some value also in 30-year-old Chris Godwin this year in Tampa?
44:27>> Yeah, I do think potentially there is. I mean, especially since he's just hanging out down here. I mean, cuz you got to
44:33give him I think a hall pass for last year. I mean, that injury he was coming back from was just absolutely
44:38devastating. I mean, he it like not no one comes back from that that injury, and maybe it takes he never comes back from it, right? But I I'm
44:45willing to still see cuz I already laid out the case for why I think the Bucks are going to throw more and be involved
44:48in these game environments. And then we're going to see Chris Godwin moving to more of like a natural slot position, um where he obviously had a huge amount
44:57of success in the Liam Coen offense, and I already think this offense can be more adjacent to that. I just don't know if
45:01we're going to see him get as much like overall burn as he did that season. Like I'm not expecting him to be the wide
45:07receiver, you know, two in points per game, right? Like you're not paying for that either.
45:12Um but you look at that year he was averaging seven catches per game, 82 yards per 82 yards per game. I think we
45:18can get somewhere in the range of like, you know, like five to five to six catches per game and in the 60-yard
45:23range, then you're getting some value here. Then you have contingency value if something were to happen to I bucha. Um so, yeah, he's just a guy I think down
45:30down in this range. Like I'm still willing to bite the apple on because of where I think the Bucks are I'm trying
45:36to move to the puck where that I believe the Bucks are going to be this year in terms of a passing offense.
45:40>> Yeah, it's interesting cuz Godwin I just don't know know if I think maybe the injuries catch up with him, and that's
45:45sort of my take with Godwin. And also, there's wide receivers who go as high-end wide receiver four {slash} low-end wide receiver threes that are
45:54right around Godwin that I think have more upside, and these are a couple of your targets as well. Yeah, yeah. about
46:00Talk about Josh Downs cuz Downs is super interesting where it's an it feels like a post-hype sleeper where we talked about like Terry McLaurin. There was a
46:09contingent of analysts, I know Scott Barrett was all over Downs for a long time, and we saw that really successful 2024 season from him.
46:17Now Michael Pittman is a Pittsburgh Steeler. Alec Pierce got the huge contract, but Alec Pierce dealing with some injuries.
46:24It feels like it could be a Downs bounce back season. It's also a contract year for him where he could parlay this into a big contract this off
46:32season. You could easily see, if you're like looking at the future, Josh Downs has a really strong 2026 season, catches a bunch of passes, and then moves on and
46:42sort of gains dynasty value attached to some offense that just parks him in the slot. Wide receiver 42 in recent FFPC
46:49ADP. Where are you at on Josh Downs?
46:52>> Yeah, I feel like even as a floor outcome, this this plays out in PPR formats. Uh cuz even if like, you know,
46:57Daniel Jones is still a limited quarterback, and he's limited with this injury. Remember, Daniel Jones his Achilles injury was to his plant foot.
47:04So, um you know, if he's not able to push the ball down field and get these targets that, you know, Alec Pierce,
47:10right? Like who's going to benefit? It's going to be Tyler Warren and Josh Downs.
47:13And Josh Downs is a guy they've literally told us ad nauseam is going to have a a bigger role and play in outside
47:19uh plays an outside receiver more than he has his point in his career. He's going to play in wide receiver one wide
47:23one and two wide receiver sets. Which isn't like a huge deal, but he's going to still be on the field more than he
47:28than he has. And when he's been on the field, he's been targeted on 24% of his routes since his rookie year. That's
47:3224th in the league. It's the same rate as Michael Pittman. Uh which is, you know, vacated the vacated targets. And when Pittman isn't hasn't been on the
47:39field, which is a 122 route sample uh over his rookie contract, Josh Downs has been targeted on 25% of his routes.
47:46And he's also won outside, too, uh as an outside player. And he can get open. Uh we'd love to see like the air yards go
47:52up for him. But again, at face value, even if Daniel Don- Daniel Jones is limited, he's going to catch, I think, a
47:58a a value even if he doesn't score touchdowns because he's just going to be like a wide receiver floor base guy you
48:03can plug in as a flex and say I'm going to get a safe volume of targets and and catches. And then the upside outcomes
48:09are, you know, Daniel Jones and this offense are playing to the level they were the front half of last year. Maybe
48:13Alex something happens to Alec Pierce or Alec Pierce doesn't develop as a full field wide receiver to the degree the Colts are hoping and paying him for.
48:19Uh, there are just a lot of avenues here to where like this could go right and I feel like this is kind of the floor in
48:25full PPR.
48:26>> Yeah, it's a it's a very interesting one and I'm I'm on Tyler Warren this year. I like Tyler Warren a lot. But you've seen
48:33Warren steam up so so much and Downs is just sort of sitting there. So if you're chasing someone getting a a super They
48:39both could end up with a very very high target share and total total targets. It could be very consolidated passing game
48:45in in Indianapolis. So interesting one there. One more player that you listed and I'm excited about this one, Quentin Johnston. And Quentin Johnston it's like
48:55Mike McDaniel keeps singing his praises.
48:58The guy's had 16 touchdown catches over the last two seasons. He's got the top-notch athleticism and the pedigree and people sort of just hate seeing him
49:08steam up. I know when he got the contract extension there was people just sort of like angry. There's this this real animus towards Quentin Johnston.
49:15We talked about Lad McConkey. I think one easy entry into getting the an LA Charger is just draft Quentin Johnston and wait. Um, I think if Justin Herbert
49:25has the kind of dream season like we think he could, QJ could end up paying off in a major way. Maybe a double-digit
49:30touchdown season with maybe career highs in in receiving yardage.
49:34>> Yeah, I think he isn't getting enough credit for the growth he's made since his rookie year. I think a lot of people
49:38just think of like the back to his rookie season and they just don't think he's like a very good player, but he's
49:43continue he's continually gotten better every year in the NFL. Like whenever I see guys continuously get better in the NFL, I'm like, oh, I don't want to that,
49:50right? Like I don't want to ignore growth. Um and again, I also think that everyone's giving Ladd McConkey this kind of pass that what happened to the
49:59Chargers, and I am too, cuz he should, but no one's giving it to Quentin Johnston, either.
50:04Uh remember the front half of the year, this guy wasn't a boomer bust option in the NFL. He was a top-30 scorer in six
50:11of the opening eight games last year.
50:12Two wide receiver one scoring weeks over that stretch. He's averaging 57.5 yards per game over that span. Um and then you
50:20look at what after the Joel Alt injury, 19 total receptions, uh two touchdowns.
50:25Uh he had four catches to 20 yards, cuz again, I talked talked about the the offense died. The other thing about him
50:30is that, you know, even if Johnston's the the player he's that people believe he's always been this this volatile type of player. Uh there are still reasons to
50:37be excited for him in this iteration of the Mike McDaniel offense, uh because we know they're going to run a quicker
50:42passing game as well, and we're able to get him more shorter targets mixed in with those lid-lifting opportunities.
50:47Over the past two seasons, Quentin Johnston 7.1 yards per catch on throws at or behind the line of scrimmage, and he has 31 of those targets. It isn't
50:56like a 10-target sample. That uh the base rate for the wide receivers is 5.6 yards on those catch. He averages 8.9
51:03yards after the catch on those. The base rate for the position is 8.2. And those route uh those rates are way higher than
51:09Ladd McConkey. He's only averaged 3 yards per catch and 6.1 yards after the catch because he's just not that type of
51:14player, right? So, I think there's a lot of avenues here where you're going to see like people just like kind of be
51:20like poo-poo Quentin Johnston a little bit because it's like oh, it's Quentin Johnston, but like at this price point, like there's a lot more upside here. And
51:27then you have contingency stuff that's not being priced in. Like, what if Ladd McConkey misses a month, right? Like, you think they're just going to
51:35automatically just give Trey Harris like a 25% target share? I don't think so.
51:39So, I mean, this is a guy again, just like I get why he's priced down here, but I feel like a lot of people are
51:44factoring in like what's happened to this point of his career over what is like set up for him right now.
51:51>> Yeah, I'm I'm with you. I mean, this could end up being the best offensive situation he's ever been in. We like the
51:56LA Chargers and I understand taking Omarion Hampton where you take him. I understand the Lad McConkey McConkey enthusiasm, but you're able to get QJ in
52:06like a really easy to click range and especially correlation with Justin Herbert. I absolutely love it. Very quick thoughts on Ricky Pearsall.
52:14We're talking about bottom of wide receiver four land. A player that there was way more enthusiasm for last year and then you talk about like a an
52:22arbitrage play for maybe you don't want to click the button on Mike Evans. Maybe you're worried about the age and the or
52:27or the how he would will perform as a in a new situation. You can go super cheap and get access to a guy that we know
52:34Kyle Shanahan likes a lot in Pearsall.
52:37>> And it's the same following the theme.
52:38If you've if you're following the theme of like a lot of these guys we've talked about is like I want to take advantage
52:42of you know, gamers pricing in over you know, overly pricing in kind of like what results have shown, but not looking
52:49at one the situation that they're in now or even like the the per game upside these guys have. Anytime Ricky Pearsall's played football, he's been
52:56hyper productive. I mean, you look at last year.
52:59Uh he opens the year with a you know, 100 yards against the Seahawks. How many guys had 100 yards receiving against the
53:04Seahawks? 56 yards, 117 yards over his first three games. Then he gets injured.
53:08He's banged up, comes back at the end of the year. We saw him have six catches for 96 yards in week 14. Then he has
53:13five for 85 in week 16. This guy anytime he plays, he is a productive player. Um we just got to get him on the field and
53:20to stay on the field. And you're injury prone to or not and none of his injuries are like that like kind of the you you
53:26would you worry about some of like the um the the hamstring stuff, but also look at what the guy that's the wide
53:31receiver one on his team. He's been on the injury report five years in a row with a hamstring injury. So, you get
53:36some Mike Evans contingency value. I think at a discount. We believe in the 49ers infrastructure. Then also, we have to think about what Mike Evans does for
53:43Ricky Pearsall in the first place. Um he allows Ricky Pearsall to come out of like that vertical X role he had to play
53:50last year.
53:51Uh only um only 15% of his targets as a rookie were deep targets. And then you look at last year, that took a massive
53:59jump. He averaged uh 32 per 32% of his targets were throws 20 yd more downfield. That's double the rate. He averaged 14.1 air yd per target last
54:07year when he had to play in that role.
54:09Um and then that kind of hurt his like yards after the catch. So he's not going to be a huge yards after the catch guy
54:14anyways. But Mike Evans also frees him up as well. So while he's playing with Mike Evans, he has a chance now cuz we
54:19don't have no Jauan Jennings in this offense, right? This team doesn't run a lot of 11 personnel. So how much does
54:24De'Von Achane even get on the field as a rookie? And does he even leapfrog Christian Kirk? Uh those are all questions. We know Ricky Pearsall is
54:31going to be on the depth chart while he's healthy. Wide receiver two at worst, potentially be wide receiver one anytime that Mike Evans goes down. So
54:37just again want to kind of take a take advantage of some of these guys that kind of get pushed down that I think
54:42have proven to be good players when they play on the football field.
54:45>> Yeah, I like that. I access to good offenses and also the contingent upside not only with Evans but with Kittle. Two
54:51players that are much older than Pearsall. So people talk about sort of the injury concerns with Pearsall. It's more also like Kittle coming off of
54:57being a big injury and you've also got Mike Evans. Both of those guys sort of north north of 31 years old. Whereas
55:03Pearsall, the knock on him has been he just can't stay healthy. What if he does play stay healthy? And I think like the
55:09downside risk is baked in when you're talking about low-end wide receiver like wide receiver four land for Pearsall. So really interesting one. Uh before we get
55:18you out of here, let's rip off a couple of wide receiver sleepers. When you get down into like the wide receiver five
55:24land, who are a couple guys that you're targeting as like your end game wide receiver targets?
55:29>> Yeah, and I I don't know if you're still in on here, but I'm I'm still willing A player I didn't want any part of last
55:34year was Matthew Golden.
55:35>> you know I'm still in on him. I'm not quitting Matthew Golden.
55:38>> I love it. I just think the value represents too much here to get a you know, a year two wider wide receiver
55:43that was drafted in round one in an offense that we still believe in that's going to have a pathway to more
55:47opportunities inherently because of the things we talked about with Christian Watson. I mean the opening nine weeks he was on the field for 70% of the drop
55:54backs just and there are plays when you go back to those when you go back and watch Matthew Golden film like there was
55:59opportunities for him to hit. He was getting open and creating separation. So the fact that he's just priced down here as a wide low and wide receiver four
56:08wide receiver five. I just want to add that to rosters and see where it goes. I feel like there's really no risk here
56:13and I brought up the Jayden Reed stat that through Jayden Reed's career he's run eight routes on one to two wide
56:19receiver sets. Eight. As a rookie Matthew Golden ran 72.
56:24So like they trusted him in on those sets too as well as a rookie. So he has that pipeline to be kind of played over
56:30him and kind of sticking with the theme like year two wide receivers. Jayden Higgins is another guy. I believe one CJ
56:36Stroud has been run through the ringer in terms of like there's like a perception that like he's like a Bryce Young level quarterback and I just that
56:43I find that like outrageous.
56:46Uh but you know, Jayden Higgins is going to be in this larger role in year two.
56:50Uh he was only on the field for 56% of drop backs as a rookie. He has obviously contingency upside with Nico Collins
56:56misses time. We saw last year when Nico Collins uh missed 210 routes Jayden Higgins had 20 a 22% target share on those plays. So
57:03you have that kind of built in. Uh obviously a player that has touchdown you know, equity as well could could be
57:08a clasher in the um the red zone and you brought up Antonio Williams just because if this Commanders offense is going to
57:14be a value and they don't add what we assume right now they're not going to add Brandon Aiyuk at this point.
57:20>> [laughter] >> Like we feel pretty like okay about that.
57:22>> We'll keep a candle keep a candle burning for Stefon Diggs. I always bring that one up. It's like Diggs could end up there.
57:28>> But at this point like he He has a runway to be the wide receiver two in this offense and I think people uh uh
57:35forget like as a prospect this is a really good kind of prospect. I mean this guy 208 career receptions at Clemson and it he probably projects to
57:41be more of a slot centric NFL player at 5'11 190 but going back to 2024 which is Clay Kubiak's best year as well he did
57:49play 41% of his snaps out wide uh in that season which was overlap Kubiak's best season so like I think there is some opportunity here where he
57:57might just be pushed out there uh a little bit more as a rookie pending on if there's an addition here. He's just a
58:02guy I want to say has a a pathway to like more snaps than where he's being drafted at and if Jayden Daniels is the
58:07player that we saw more of the rookie season than year two in this David Blau offense is going to create some more
58:12opportunities for this offense through play action and pre-snap motion. Like he's just a guy I'm going to add to rosters and I feel like if he doesn't
58:20hit like you can throw him back at really like really low leverage risk.
58:24>> Who are two wide receivers that are maybe a little bit more highly drafted that you are not clicking the button on
58:30and you have concerns returning value at ADP?
58:33>> Uh the first one is George Pickens and I totally get like the pro outcome.
58:37Obviously if he's just you know you know uh >> Last year's George Pickens?
58:40>> Yeah he'll like one last year's George Pickens or it's just like a complete like Cincinnati situation, right? Where like these it's just Lamb Higgins redux,
58:46right? Or you know Chase Higgins redux. But I mean when you look at Pickens last year he was third in fantasy points scored over
58:54expectations. Lamb was 214th.
58:57Like there's probably going to be some oscillation where what one guy ran hot the and you know Lamb's not going to run
59:03that cold again. Also when Lamb came back the the final 10 games of the year George Pickens was only a wide receiver
59:10one in two of those games. He was a top 24 receiver in only half of those games.
59:14So he was a lot more volatile of a play.
59:16And then you have the outcome here too where the Dallas defense could be improved. Now they're not going to be so
59:21much improved to where like these guys are going to outright fail but like the the Dallas defense allowed 2.9 points per
59:28drive. It was the second highest rate of of any team over the past decade.
59:32And the Dallas game environments created a game environments where the combined they were teams averaging 58 points per game combined, which is the fourth
59:41highest over the past decade. Like there's reasons for that to come down a little bit too as well. Dallas also is
59:46going to probably run into better fortune in terms of offensive line continuity and health. So maybe the run game is even a little bit better than it
59:52was the back half of the year, which it struggled. So Again, like I always struggle when these guys were really cheap the year before. And it's funny is
59:59I was hammering George Pickens last year for the reasons we talked about ad nauseam with Jaylen Waddle and Christian Watson and Terry McLaurin.
60:07Game The reason George Pickens was cheap last year is because everyone's like, well, I've drafted George Pickens before and he hasn't hit, right? And but now
60:13he's really high and he's a really highly priced wide receiver. So anytime I got I caught my value and I feel like
60:18I already got over on the field, I'm like, do I want to come back and pay the iron price? I don't know if I do.
60:24And then you know, Rashee Rice is the second guy, too. And it's just It's hard with Rashee Rice because nothing has
60:29changed really for the from him from an infrastructure stance outside of Kenneth Walker being added to the offense. And it's like
60:35if they want to keep having to run this offense through Rashee Rice at this low A dot like Deebo Samuel-esque player, it
60:40still exists in the range of outcomes because they haven't really added any wide receivers to command targets. But I have a hard time believing that an
60:47offense is just going to continue to do things that aren't working for the offense. Just because, you know what I mean? And that's where we've been with
60:54Rashee Rice. Like this the Chiefs offense has failed the past 3 years. You know, Patrick Mahomes got over in fantasy football because he ran a lot
61:02last year, but we're not going to be able to count on that. He's been below league average rates in terms of
61:07completion rate, yards per pass attempt, and touchdown rate each of the past three seasons. So are the When does Andy Reid, who I believe is an extremely
61:15smart NFL coach still, look in the mirror and say, "Hey, like this really isn't adding a lot to our offense.
61:20Either Rashee Rice has to be deployed in a different manner or we're going to try some other things.
61:26Um and then that doesn't even factor in like the off-the-field stuff with with Rashee Rice cuz which feels like always just like a hanging knife over your
61:32head. Uh an axe ready to drop at this point.
61:35>> Oh yeah. You ne- you're never uh you're never resting safely with Rashee Rice under dynasty rosters. That's for sure.
61:41I'd also just very simply it feels like a Kenneth Walker offense. I think that's what they're going into. I think you're
61:46going to see a ton of Walker. Um I think that Bieniemy is a pass-happy enough uh offensive play-caller that maybe Rice could pay off, but it's almost a
61:56purgatory pick at best in his range and a lot of great wide receiver options around him. So, I think if you're
62:01wanting to attack Kansas City early on in drafts, I think Kenneth Walker is a better click right now than Rashee Rice
62:08and you sort of have nothing to worry about with Walker. As long as Walker stays healthy, he's going to get a ton
62:12of touches. Probably sets career highs in everything. So, this was just awesome today. If you want Rich's thoughts on quarterbacks, he recorded with Ian
62:19Hartitz. Go check out Ian's YouTube channel. Uh you guys crushed it on the quarterback side of things. And make sure you're checking out everything Rich
62:26is putting out. It's going to help you become a better fantasy football manager to consume his content. And stick with us here on RotoWire Fantasy Football. If
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