The Ringer Fantasy Football Show artwork

Training Camp Hype to Buy or Sell, a Jackie-Heifetz Argument, Ringer Movie Club: 'Kingpin,' 'The Odyssey,' and Beach Ham

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

2 hr 6 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jul 30, 2026
Published
Thu, July 30, 2026
35
Player insights
22
Players mentioned
Topics
Garrett WilsonLuther BurdenZay FlowersChris RodriguezMarvin Harrison Jr.Michael WilsonAmon-Ra St. BrownBrock BowersBucky IrvingC.J. StroudD.J. MooreDavid MontgomeryDerrick HenryDK Metcalf
Player analysis

Player insights

35

Amon-Ra St. Brown

NegativeRole39:17

Isaac (Amon-Ra St. Brown) is expected to slide in as a starting X receiver in three-receiver sets for the Lions, characterized as a shot guy but not a big target guy; the passing game is projected to center on Monra, Jameson, and Gibbs as the primary receiving options.

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Brock Bowers

NegativeRole33:19

Brock Bowers got engaged, which the source found noteworthy because it would require him to speak three or more words; the speaker wished he had been mic'd up for the engagement announcement, suggesting Bowers is known for being taciturn or quiet.

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Bucky Irving

NegativeRole62:32

Irving is mentioned as an exciting player but is grouped among those Super Troopers would send to the Browns as part of a hypothetical roster shuffle, suggesting ambivalence about his fantasy value despite acknowledging his excitement factor.

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C.J. Stroud

NegativeProjection37:00

CJ Stroud reported to the Texans for training camp; the source made a physical comparison, saying 'he looks like Bryce Young with the bat,' suggesting a similar build or appearance to the Panthers quarterback.

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Chris Rodriguez

NegativeDepth Chart65:45

Jaguars signed Chris Rodriguez, creating a three-man backfield with Basial Tootin and Travis Etienne, which limits Tootin's role and upside despite his draft capital rising.

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NegativeInjury66:08

Rodriguez signed a five-million-dollar-per-year deal with the Jaguars to reunite with Liam Cohen from his Kentucky days, but he recently broke his foot and underwent surgery, which represents a bigger red flag than any concerns about Tootin; the injury creates uncertainty about his availability and role despite the system familiarity and financial commitment.

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D.J. Moore

NegativeDepth Chart29:06

DJ Moore has departed Chicago, opening up snaps for the Bears' wide receiver group. Moore previously played the most snaps among Bears receivers, so his exit creates opportunity for remaining receivers like Luther Burden.

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David Montgomery

PositiveProjection39:36

David Montgomery (Monra) is identified as one of only three core parts of the Lions passing game alongside Jameson Williams and Anthony Gibbs, suggesting concentrated target and usage opportunity.

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Derrick Henry

NegativeValue68:09

Henry is positioned as the 'wife you go home to' in the Odyssey metaphor—the safe, reliable anchor pick that contrasts with high-risk, high-upside 'siren' targets; the speaker frames Henry as the point of the exercise, suggesting he is a foundational, trustworthy fantasy asset worth prioritizing over chasing volatile upside.

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DK Metcalf

PositiveValue39:44

DK Metcalf is currently going as wide receiver 27 by ADP but finished last year as wide receiver 18; the speaker suggests he needs just two more targets per game to significantly elevate his production, implying current ADP undervalues his upside.

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Garrett Wilson

NegativeValue33:39

In a direct comparison, Garrett Wilson is ranked below Luther Burden in draft preference. When asked 'Would you guys rather have Garrett Wilson or Luther Burden straight up?', the response is 'Burden because Burden is a talented player on a great team with a great coach and a great quarterback. And the Jets have none of those things.' This reflects the speaker's view that Wilson's elite talent is undermined by the Jets' organizational dysfunction.

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NegativeBust40:07

Garrett Wilson is explicitly positioned as a fade despite training camp hype; the speaker advocates avoiding the Jets entirely this year and will not get caught up in OTA, training camp, or preseason target volume for Wilson, comparing the Jets organization to a perpetually worsening situation and citing last year's failed attempt with Gino Smith as a cautionary example.

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NegativeBust41:55

Despite strong historical production—a hundred catches and 1,100 yards two years ago with seven touchdowns, never fewer than 83 catches in a full season—Wilson remains a fade due to Jets organizational dysfunction. The speaker explicitly warns against talking yourself into Wilson despite his stats, citing the Jets' lame-duck head coach Aaron Glenn, Frank Reich's two-year absence from the league and prior mid-season firings, and the team's overall instability as reasons to avoid the player entirely, even if Gino Smith is theoretically the best quarterback Wilson has had.

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PositiveValue46:05

Garrett Wilson is explicitly deprioritized in favor of A.D. Mitchell as a Jets pass-catcher target. The speaker states: 'I'd rather take a shot at A.D. Mitchell off like the last pick in my draft than Garrett Wilson. If you want a piece of the Jets, take A.D. Mitchell, not Garrett Wilson.' The rationale centers on the Jets' offensive dysfunction, lack of coaching stability, and the presence of multiple mouths to feed (Omar Cooper, Kenyon Sadiq drafted in the first round, Mason Taylor, A.D. Mitchell), which dilutes target opportunity.

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NegativeMatchup62:42

Wilson is noted as already being on the Browns in effect because he plays for the Jets, making him unavailable for a hypothetical trade to Cleveland; Super Troopers jokes that Jets and Titans players cannot be sent to the Browns since they are already in division/conference proximity.

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Geno Smith

NegativeProjection45:21

Gino Smith's move to the Jets is viewed skeptically despite his career revitalization with Seattle; the speaker expresses strong reluctance to invest in him, citing Frank Reich being two years removed from the NFL, Aaron Glenn as a lame duck coach, and the Jets' overall dysfunction. The speaker states: 'If Gino Smith, 12 years after the Jets got rid of him, successfully revives with Frank Reich two years out of the NFL and Aaron Glenn as a lame duck. Then you know what? I guess I won't win my fantasy league.' The speaker also notes 'it's not been a good start to him in New York either,' signaling early-season concerns.

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Ja'Marr Chase

PositiveBust64:02

Training camp narrative that he couldn't track the ball without white stripes was identified as incorrect and all-time bad beat writer story; speaker emphasizes not to listen to training camp beat writer narratives and cites Chase as the greatest college receiver ever seen, dismissing the white-stripe tracking story as useless noise.

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Jameson Williams

PositiveValue39:36

Jameson Williams is viewed as a more attractive target than Luther Burden despite being cheaper in ADP; the speaker is more lured by Williams, especially given his lower price point relative to Burden.

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Lamar Jackson

PositiveRole802:10

Lamar Jackson praised new Ravens OC Declan Doyle as a genius who teaches important details and creativity; Jackson's glowing camp reports suggest confidence in the new offensive scheme and coaching direction.

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LeQuint Allen

PositiveRole66:08

Allen is highlighted as an exceptional pass blocker for a rookie running back, which is rare; the speaker defends rookie running backs for poor pass-blocking performance due to lack of college preparation, but identifies Allen as one of the better pass blockers despite his rookie status, suggesting he has a skill edge that could secure playing time.

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Luther Burden

PositiveValue5:44

Luther Burden is preferred over Garrett Wilson in a direct draft comparison, with the speaker citing his placement on a great team with elite coaching and quarterback play. The speaker states: 'Burden because Burden is a talented player on a great team with a great coach and a great quarterback.' This reflects a positive view of Burden's draft value relative to Wilson, emphasizing the importance of organizational context.

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PositiveBreakout28:11

Ben Johnson, who drafted Burden, is bullish on his stock heading into 2024: "When he gets the ball in his hands, he's a problem child. I am buying Luther burden stock right now. The way he's approached this season, he has been electric." Among rookies with minimum routes/targets over the last 15 years, Burden ranks second in yards per route run behind only AJ Brown, ahead of Odell Beckham. When Roma Doundse missed the final five games of 2023, Burden led the team in receiving yards despite missing a game himself, posting a 3.52 yards per route run—described as "best in the league type shit." His pedigree and explosiveness suggest he should have been a top-10 pick in 2024 had the 2023 season not happened, but he fell to the second round due to Missouri's poor situation.

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PositiveRole29:06

Burden is manufactured into the offense via touches behind the line of scrimmage and screen passes, a different usage pattern than Roma Doundse, who is deployed more down the field. With DJ Moore gone from Chicago, there are more snaps available for the Bears' wide receiver group, and Burden is positioned to capture a larger share of the offense.

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NegativeValue30:27

Despite strong rookie efficiency metrics and pedigree, Burden's ADP has risen to a point where "everybody around him has already done it," and the speaker cautions that "everybody needs to cool the fuck off with Luther burden ADP." The hype around his name and explosiveness may be pricing in too much upside relative to his actual role and sample size.

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PositiveBreakout46:45

Ben Johnson, the Cardinals offensive coordinator who drafted Burden, has publicly endorsed him with strong language: "When he gets the ball in his hands, he's a problem child" and "I am buying Luther Burden stock right now." The podcast host is also bullish, explicitly rejecting the "siren" (hype trap) framing and committing to buying Burden despite acknowledging training camp hype risks; he compares his conviction on Burden favorably to his skepticism on Zay Flowers, suggesting Burden's tape and role warrant the optimism.

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Mark Andrews

PositiveRole802:10

Mark Andrews praised new Ravens OC Declan Doyle as a genius who teaches important details and creativity; Andrews' glowing camp reports suggest confidence in the new offensive scheme and coaching direction.

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Marvin Harrison Jr.

NegativeBust62:54

Super Troopers has given up on Harrison Jr. and would be fine with sending him to the Browns so they never have to think about him again; despite being a consensus top prospect, Super Troopers is ranking Michael Wilson ahead of him out of spite, 40 spots off consensus.

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NegativeBust63:11

Ranked slightly higher than Michael Wilson; speaker notes he is not as good as initially expected, with training camp overreaction to a dropped pass during warmup routes fueling bust narrative.

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Michael Wilson

NegativeBust63:11

Ranked one spot ahead of Marvin Harrison Jr. out of spite despite being 40 spots off consensus; speaker acknowledges Wilson is not as good as initially thought, citing a dropped pass during warmup routes that sparked overreaction at training camp.

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PositiveValue63:34

Wilson is being ranked ahead of consensus top prospect Marvin Harrison Jr. out of spite by Super Troopers, placing him 40 spots off consensus; Super Troopers acknowledges this may violate fiduciary duty but is committed to the contrarian stance.

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Tony Pollard

NegativeBust62:02

Pollard is grouped among players Super Troopers wants to disappear from fantasy consideration and would prefer to send away to the Browns; Super Troopers expresses a desire to never think about Pollard again.

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Travis Etienne

NegativeDepth Chart65:45

Speaker expected Etienne to leave the Jaguars after last season, which would have opened the door for Basial Tootin to be the starter; however, Etienne remains with the team, creating a crowded backfield situation with Tootin and Chris Rodriguez.

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Zay Flowers

PositiveBreakout47:16

Zay Flowers is identified as the speaker's 'wax' (a buy/target pick) with significant training camp buzz. Ravens offensive coordinator Jesse Minter praised Flowers extensively, stating: 'he's not just a slot guy. He's not just an outside guy. He's not just a gadget guy. He can do everything. I look forward to getting him the ball as many ways as possible. We're better when he has the ball in his hands.' The speaker notes this praise has generated substantial social media buzz and is appearing in multiple articles about the Ravens, suggesting growing market awareness and potential breakout potential.

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PositiveRole817:00

Flowers is entering his fourth year at age 26 and is positioned to benefit from new Ravens coaching staff (Declan Doyle as OC, Minter as HC) who are moving away from Harbaugh's brutal practice regimen; Flowers reported that the new staff promised easier practices and less physical punishment, which could improve his consistency and health.

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NegativeProjection833:37

Despite finishing as WR14 last season, Flowers averaged only 11.5 fantasy points per game, which would have ranked as WR25 the prior year; the ranking masks inconsistent scoring with most points concentrated in week one, making him unreliable despite the surface-level finish.

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Full transcript

Episode Transcript

1,787
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1:00And so we are going to look at all the players that are absolute thirst traps, siren songs for this season.
1:06In honor of? The Odyssey, baby. Craig, biggest movie in the world?
1:09Movies are back? Great year for movies, I would say.
1:12And The Odyssey's crushing it. Going to be Nolan's biggest movie ever, yeah.
1:16Going to the theater is back. Yeah. Four movies cooking.
1:19IMAX very shortly. Things are cooking right now. We're doing good.
1:22The CineRamidome's coming back in LA. It's fucking, we're cooking.
1:25All 14mm, 70mm IMAX theaters are just absolutely cranking, man.
1:28I saw it in one of those. No big deal.
1:30Yeah, well, go die. I have wanted to do this for a while of just basically, we're not going to spoil the movie.
1:37DK, I know you care deeply about spoilers. It is a 3,000 year old story.
1:41We can't, probably shouldn't spoil the Bible either. Talk about it.
1:44Well, look, just because the story was written 3,000, I mean, Nolan's adaptation of it, anything could happen.
1:49It's true. Sure. Yeah, I mean, you know. Maybe Channing Tatum's in a gimp suit.
1:54You have no idea. You don't really know. So at the end, we'll let you, if you don't want to get it spoiled, you can bail.
2:01But we're going to talk about it at the end.
2:04But yeah, so we're going to go through an Odyssey-related list of players.
2:08And it's dumb, but I swear it makes sense.
2:10But first, I want to hit some news. Also at the end, I need you guys, we're going to do Kingpin Movie
2:16Club, and I need you guys to settle an argument I had with Jackie about pens.
2:21About Kingpin? No. We're doing Kingpin first. Kingpin Movie Club, comma.
2:24Then I need you to do an argument I had with Jackie.
2:27Anyway, first I want to hit some news. I think I side with Jackie.
2:31That's why we phrased it very specifically. So I want to talk about, there's a bunch of defensive tackle news.
2:37So Jalen Carter for the Eagles signed a big extension with the Eagles, and then also Vita Vea, who's a great defensive
2:43tackle for the Buccaneers, basically is like, fuck this, and wants to trade.
2:47You said it right. I know, right? Isn't that shocking?
2:50Great work. I was waiting for it. I think everyone was praying my downfall there, but here we go.
2:55Also, Heifetz, you know what? Yesterday I thought about it.
2:58Last night I was laying on the couch, and it just hit me.
3:02The word almost. Almost. What say you? Because I think that almost is important because it's kind of like there's – But
3:08it's kind of like two L's because it's almost kind of smushed together, and then you kind of lose the yellow.
3:14How do you know almond isn't two L's? It's the same thing.
3:17It's A-L-M-A-L. That's stupid. Sure. It could be all the mons.
3:20That's all the – you don't know what a mond is.
3:24You're right. I don't. Yeah. First of all, the people who grow the almonds call the almonds.
3:28Do you say the almond brothers? Well, that's two L's.
3:31Almond? I was going to say it's two L's.
3:34Yeah. That's two L's. I'm backtracking. Cut that. We had him.
3:37Yeah. Bleep that. It's like the lawyer. I have the worst attorney.
3:40Dikas is Ellen Ross. We cut that from the fucking show.
3:43It's fine. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Just saying.
3:46Strike that from the record. All right. Vita Vea.
3:48Dikas said Melania Trump this year. That's all I'm going to say.
3:52Yeah, but I admit what I'm wrong. All right?
3:54I said, oh, I'm wrong. Oh, sorry. We cut it from the show.
3:58Oh, I got that wrong. My bad. It's all you have to do once in your life.
4:03Anyway. The people who grow the almonds say almond.
4:05Almond. So, you know what? What do you mean?
4:08Do they? Yeah. We talked about this. We can't do this at the beginning.
4:12We have to. Most of the almonds in America are grown in California, right?
4:16Yeah. The California almond people by where you, northern California.
4:19The California people say, what do they say? Almond.
4:21We got, do you not remember? Almond? Yeah. Almond and the chipmunks?
4:25Yes. Those movies made a lot of money. Way more than you think.
4:28The squeakable? We're off track here. Holy shit. Anyway.
4:31God, we usually do this at the end. You should show Calvin Alvin and the chipmunks.
4:36He could be Alvin for Halloween. Calvin Alvin. There we go.
4:39Anyway. Vita Veya wants to trade. They want to trade.
4:41I think this is all Dexter Lawrence's fault because Dexter Lawrence wanted more money and the Giants wouldn't give it to him.
4:48So he got traded to Bengals for 10th pick in the draft.
4:51And then every defensive tackle was like, show me the money.
4:54And now there's just like this cascade effect. So Jalen Carter got this big deal, $35 million a year.
5:00It's a lot of money. Four years, $150 million.
5:02Basically $35 million a year. He's now the highest paid tackle in the league, right?
5:06Yeah. And then, I mean, all the tackles are making a lot of money.
5:10And the number sounds huge, but it's just like the NBA.
5:14You got to remember, like the salary cap has, salary caps doubled in 10 years.
5:18Like 35 sounds like a lot. It's because the salary cap total used to be $175 million.
5:23And now it's like over $300 million. So, I mean, I think the first year there was a salary cap.
5:28It was for less money than Jalen Carter now makes per year.
5:32So the salary cap goes up. The salaries do too.
5:35And then the Eagles signed Jordan Davis a few months ago.
5:38So they have both the defensive tackles signed for the Eagles.
5:41And then next year, they'll have to do Quinion Mitchell and Cooper DeGene.
5:44Because that's the burden of nailing all your fucking draft picks that the other NFC teams aid in.
5:50I bet you getting the players. Again, it's a good thing that you have to pay good players.
5:55D.K., Jalen Carter, we don't talk about it all the time on this fantasy show, but it's funny.
6:00He was annoying when he fell to the Eagles in the draft because there's a lot of problems with him in college.
6:06And the Eagles are like, screw it. We'll just take the best player in the draft.
6:11And he's kind of lived up to the billing.
6:13Off-field concerns, on-field concerns. He spits. He's like genuinely a dirty player.
6:16Also single-handedly, like just an absolute game wrecker, probably single-handedly kind of ended the Rams-Eagles game in the snow that led to
6:23the Eagles going on a Super Bowl run. And I feel like defensive tackles kind of age really well.
6:28Like they're actually really, other than quarterbacks, the position that plays the longest.
6:32I feel like Jalen Carter's best football, if he ever ends up being like a Hall of Fame player, is ahead of him.
6:38And it's annoying that the Eagles have him. Yeah, I just go back to that Rams game when the interior defensive line absolutely just took over.
6:46Like you said, game wrecker type potential. That's why he's getting paid what he is being paid.
6:50I think it's fascinating that they just paid Jordan Davis.
6:53He's getting an average of $26 million a year.
6:56You mentioned Jalen Carter, $35 million a year. I mean, and that is just, they're setting up their interior off defensive line for the long term.
7:03They can kind of rotate. I feel like with those type of guys inside, they can rotate edge players and kind of,
7:09you know, it's sort of the opposite of what teams have been trying to do, which was like lock up their defensive ends.
7:16They can kind of rotate whoever on the inside, just put in some big guys and see what happens.
7:21But it feels like the NFL is going in another direction.
7:24I mean, we got Jeffrey Simmons just got a massive, massive contract with the Titans.
7:29Dexter Lawrence, as you mentioned, got traded for the 10th overall pick and then got a new deal.
7:34Didn't he get a new deal right after that too?
7:37He's making $28 million a year. And yeah, I mean, and then the two Eagles guys, it's just, it's a new world for defensive tackle.
7:44Now we got Aaron Donald maybe coming back. I still think that outside of miles Garrett in particular, who I just think
7:50defensive tackles are so much more valuable than defensive ends.
7:53The interior pressure is so much more valuable than, than edge pressure.
7:56It's more valuable for the run. And again, if you look at rarer to basically the last, yeah, it's harder, but it's more valuable.
8:03If you can get a run stuffing defensive tackle, that also can be a pass rusher and just constantly handle double teams.
8:09You're undoing math. If you, I mean, that's what these guys are.
8:13They're guys that can split double teams. It's still get to the quarterback right in his face and allows you to not
8:19step up in the pocket and edge rusher. You step up in the pocket.
8:23You can plan around them. I mean, even you look at miles Garrett, Michael Parsons, what are the coolest plays that you
8:29can think of off the top of your head of miles Garrett and Michael Parsons?
8:33It's when they line up over the goddamn center in the middle of the field, like the best players wrecking the most,
8:40wreaking the most havoc in the middle of the field is the most impactful.
8:44And the fact that Dexter Lawrence, everyone's like telling me to be all excited about this Dexter Lawrence trade.
8:49I'm like, well, he got half the return that Max Crosby did.
8:52And I personally just think that there's a market inefficiency because I think defensive tackles are more valuable, but they're paid less
8:59because there's not like this 40 year history of counting sacks.
9:02And there really was no way to quantify a defensive tackles value if you're an agent until like the last 10 years.
9:08And so I think the market's behind, but if you just had like everything, every contract was all undone at the same
9:14time, I think teams would grab tackles over, over defensive ends.
9:17And I think it's the key to team building.
9:20And again, it hasn't really been a Superbowl winner in the last 10 years where their best defensive lineman was a pass rusher.
9:26It's been like 10 years since that was the case.
9:29I think the sacks point is a good one that it's just an easier stat to count.
9:34It's flashier. It's easier to, to understand why this guy's better than the other guy, because you can just count sacks compared to what a defensive tackle does.
9:42That's interesting. I mean, you could probably find things like that in every sport, honestly, just like playing good defense in the
9:48NBA, I think it's just harder to quantify. It's like making the guy pass the ball away to somebody else.
9:54It's like, I don't know how you really write that down.
9:57It's like Wemby now when everybody's counting like the U-turns that players make, like when they drive, they see Wemby and they turn around.
10:04It's like, that's not on a stat sheet, but that is so important.
10:07And so I totally agree with you. Like sometimes I think money ball in some ways is it's the most overrated thing
10:14because it's like baseball was around for a hundred years and they're like batting average hits divided by at bats.
10:19And Billy beans like, let's just count walks. That's it.
10:22Who like on base percentage, baby? Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, it took a hundred years to just do on base percentage.
10:28Cause it was harder. Like, you know? So I, anyway, I think that this is big.
10:33I think Vita Veya, he's a great player for the Buccaneers.
10:36I think Vita Veya is right in there with Levante David, who just retired where if Vita Veya was just on the
10:42jets, he would just be like way more famous.
10:45I don't know why ESPN is obsessed with putting all these former jets on the, on ESPN, but there were all these
10:51Tampa Bay players that if they were just in larger markets would be more famous.
10:55Cause they're incredible. And Vita Veya is just so underrated.
10:58He's in the final year of his deal. When you want to trade, it's really cause you didn't get a contract you wanted.
11:05So I don't think Vita Veya will be traded.
11:07If he is like, I just think Todd Bowles is like final year of it.
11:12Like I think Todd Bowles is really on the hot seat.
11:15If the bucks don't make the playoffs, I think Todd Bowles will be gone.
11:19I'd be surprised if he wants to get rid of Vita Veya and he'd probably put his body in front of it.
11:25But if he went, I don't know. I mean, the giants could use a nose tackle.
11:29Vita Vea is 31 years old. Yeah. So obviously, you know, he's at that point in his career where you start to
11:36worry about decline and then, you know, they still have to get Baker under contract Baker.
11:40I think the news just came out today that he's going to just go in and play this year.
11:46He said he was going to do that. He said when training camp starts, yeah, I'll stop thinking about the contract.
11:52So, you know, it is one of those things where it's like, does the team give Vita Veya a big money contract extension at 31 years old?
11:59Do they prioritize other positions? Are they trying to get younger on defensive line?
12:03It is. There's just a lot, a lot of moving parts here.
12:07I agree. This is probably more just like a negotiating tactic than a, than a real request, but we'll see.
12:12Cause you know, some of these, some of these trades have ended up going through like, no one really thought that Michael Parsons thing was going to happen.
12:20That happened. The Dexter Lawrence trade kind of set a new precedent too.
12:24I think a little bit. Yeah. I still think the, the bears, I, every time there's a defensive lineman available in trade,
12:30I think about Chicago, which I thought was summed up by this pro football focus stack that Chicago allowed the most yards
12:36before contact and design runs in the NFL last year, 800 yards just before contact for Chicago.
12:41They just don't, they're, they're a Superbowl caliber team in Chicago that doesn't out of a Superbowl caliber front Superbowl caliber front seven.
12:48And then I was thinking about it and I'm like, you know what?
12:51I don't think Vita V is going to get traded.
12:54You know what I kind of think might get traded.
12:57Max Crosby. Remember the Max Crosby thing? The guy who was already traded.
13:01He got traded. If this was the NBA, if the NBA, like if this, like if there was an NBA player, I guess maybe Kawhi is it.
13:08That's in limbo. I feel like if a player was traded and then undone as big as Max Crosby, we'd hear about it every day.
13:15And there'd be like a timeline. I haven't heard a damn word about him.
13:19Is he in camp? Is he hanging out? Is he healthy?
13:23They literally traded Max Crosby for two first. It was undone within 48 hours before miles Garrett is the biggest trade of the entire off season.
13:30And I feel like whether the Raiders have actually decided that they'll just keep Max Crosby all year or they're going to trade him.
13:37The Raiders have to act like he's not going to get traded.
13:40And I almost feel like it's been forgotten, but I'm like, I don't know.
13:44It's Max Crosby really going to go into the season and play like 99% of snaps, like a psychopath, which he does
13:50every year and just, just puts way more tread on his tires than any defender basically ever.
13:55Like no defensive lineman plays 100% of snaps except him.
13:58It's not a thing. And I did. They'll just let that happen again.
14:02I'm like, I don't know. I feel like he's going to get dealt.
14:05And I kind of thought the Rams, I thought the Rams were going to be the team.
14:10And then they got miles Garrett. I still, I think Chicago, not anymore, but I thought the Rams should do it.
14:16And I think that now that miles gets in the Rams, I think Chicago should go get Max Crosby.
14:21And I think Vita V is going to stay in Tampa.
14:25But I like that the NFL has more trades these days.
14:28It feels like anyway, it just feels like GMs are more willing to do big, big Jerry Jones just said in an
14:34interview recently that he's looking, he was just on the phone with a team about potentially make selling future picks for a good player right now.
14:41Maybe that's fucking Max Crosby. How funny would that be?
14:44They just traded for Williams too, by the way.
14:47That's, that's funny. You say that because when you hear Jerry being like, I was just on the phone with someone the
14:53other day, you're kind of like, Oh, well, whatever.
14:55He just talks, dude. When Jerry in the past has alluded to there being trade discussions, he's usually just, he's actually usually honest.
15:02He like, it's usually happened. Like he alluded to the Williams thing.
15:05Like every time he's up on the mic is his, all his underlings are like, he has no filter anymore.
15:11Do you remember when he said Jonathan Brooks, the running back, he was coming out of Texas.
15:16He said, Jonathan, it was after day one of the draft, the first round.
15:20So Jonathan Brooks had this, the best pre-draft interview I've ever seen.
15:23And his son nudges him. I was like, dad, we haven't taken him yet.
15:27Shut up. It's like the draft. He was the highest ranked player on our board.
15:31Dad, shut up, dad. So anyway, I kind of think the Cowboys just traded for Max Crosby and then just like did the Micah Parsons trade in aggregate.
15:39What if they only get only trade one first for Max Crosby?
15:43And then, so they, you know, they turned Micah into Kenny Clark, Maks Crosby in a first.
15:48Quinn and Williams. Art of the deal. And Quinn and Williams.
15:51Art of the deal. Sneaky cooking. Jerry. So there you go.
15:54Max Crosby also kind of feels like a cowboy.
15:56I think that would work. Yeah. The, oh my God.
15:59I kind of wonder. The other one I want to throw out is Justin Herbert got engaged.
16:04Well done, sir. Yeah. Good Instagram. I can't, if you're watching on Netflix and if you're not, go watch the Netflix or
16:10on Spotify, this video, I actually had Kim put up the carousel.
16:14And so if you pull up the video, you can watch.
16:17So she's like even lower underneath. Who's asking you here?
16:20Easy now. That's great. Get your mind out of the gutter.
16:23You can see on the picture. She's kneeling down too.
16:26No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was like, yeah, nevermind.
16:28I'm not going to say. I don't know. He's look very nice.
16:32One of these, he's Viking carrying her on the, yeah.
16:34There's a couple where it's like, what are you saying?
16:37The hot quarterback ranking. Girls just want to get picked up, right?
16:41Women just want to be picked up. He's got to make it feel small.
16:45Women just want to be picked up and Herbert can pick her up.
16:48Like she is a 20 pound dumbbell. He's carrying her.
16:51Slings her over his shoulder. Like it's a boom box on his shoulder.
16:55These are nice. Tasteful. They're in some beautiful green lush area.
16:58It's kind of a classic. This is a classic millennial.
17:01Where is it? It is a classic. I guess they're not even millennials.
17:04They might even be, they're like old Gen Z.
17:07It looks like Craig's backyard from the ice bucket challenge video.
17:10Craig just coming live from an enchanted forest or wherever he was.
17:14Oh wait, Kim, did you have the black and white photo of them of her just grabbing him?
17:19Yeah. Look at her just grabbing his face. Like she's like, never leave.
17:22Yeah. It's honestly like, I imagine that some Mike McDaniel also looks at Herbert.
17:26Like that's a rock on her hand too. Dude, that rig is so big, dude.
17:31It's so, that thing is massive. You forget like this man, I feel like, you know, you hear about contracts so often in the NBA, baseball and football.
17:38And they just kind of like start to wash over you.
17:42Justin Herbert is a, is like a 27 year old man who makes $50 million a year.
17:46So I can tell you right now, I actually, what is three months of a salary?
17:51Craig, isn't that what the standard is? I proposed a couple of years ago.
17:55I did learn a lot about the ring process.
17:57Let me tell you something. I'm going to throw out some numbers and I think I'm going to be right here.
18:03I think that ring, if I'm looking at it, right.
18:06I think that ring is at least five carats.
18:09And I think the ring is at least like, you know, there's lab grown versus like, you know, mind.
18:14I think that if it's like five carats from a mind, that's easily $250,000 just for the, just for the diamond.
18:20But then you're like, well, he makes two 50 million.
18:23So who gives a shit? Yeah, literally, but that it's like actually heavy.
18:27Like her left arm is going to get strong.
18:29It appears to be an emerald cut based on my, Oh, based on my research here.
18:34Nice. Um, Jackie is an emerald cut. It doesn't quite look like that.
18:37Yeah. Liz does as well. Um, good for them.
18:40Nice post. Kind of classy. I feel like Herbert doesn't show his face a lot.
18:44Like he's, he's always kind of hidden. I don't know if that's her being private, which I also respect, but it feels like it's very deliberate.
18:52It's like my brother just had this baby and all these photos they post on Instagram are just kind of like the
18:58baby's face is like slightly out of view. You know, they don't want the kid's face online.
19:03And that is also Herbert. Yeah. Never looking right at him.
19:06Look good for them. That's freaking great. Wait, what is, forgive me.
19:09Is Madison beer, a music star? What does she do?
19:12She's an influence singer. She's a singer. I don't know why she's a singer.
19:16She's a singer. Do you, is she more famous for the influencing or the singing?
19:20Like, I don't know. I don't, I don't know.
19:23I'm not sure what you mean by that. What does that mean?
19:26Is she more famous as a singer or the Instagram?
19:29Oh, well the Instagram, I mean, every singer has an Instagram.
19:32I don't know. You know what I mean? Like she's not making, she's not like doing sketches and jokes and like doing, you know what I mean?
19:40On Instagram. I feel like she's just a singer who, who is good looking, who has an Instagram.
19:45Got it. Okay. Got it. I'm just, I just, but I don't know.
19:49I think her varying levels of success for her.
19:51She has some songs that I think have popped a little bit.
19:55Others, not so much. She's not like on like crazy Abrams or anything like that.
19:59Got it. Well, Brock Bowers also got engaged and gotten under the fanfare, but I just thought it was interesting because that
20:05would mean Brock Bowers had to say three words or more.
20:08So I just was mostly, I wish he had been mic'd up for that.
20:12The only other news was I just did a whiplash.
20:15Jamal Adams, the safety sign with the Vikings. I could not believe he was still in the NFL, nor could I believe
20:21that Jamal Adams was only 30 years old. Which kind of both think he was traded for two first round picks like seven years ago.
20:28We don't talk about that. And yeah, I'll give you a trillion dollars.
20:32If you can tell me the GM of the Vikings who made this deal, who used to be at the Seahawks.
20:38Well, I accidentally just read it, but it's Nolan Teasley.
20:41Nolan Teasley. Who I probably had never heard of before he became the GM of the Vikings.
20:46I'll be honest. Nolan Teasley. Jamal Adams has been, he played last year, right?
20:50Wasn't he on Oakland or Vegas? Yeah. Yeah. He was on the, he's not like starting the league for a sneaky, a long time.
20:56I think that 10 years, I think Jamal, he's a lot more teams are playing three safeties.
21:01Basically they're like what he was always, which was a linebacker.
21:04You're a linebacker that plays safety. And like, that was not very useful.
21:08And now everyone team because of the tight ends, they're like, Oh, can you guard a shitty tight end pass protection that
21:14Sean movie is going to put out there? That's perfect.
21:17Like, yeah. And they kind of just need Jamal Adams to guard like Colby Parkinson, which he can do.
21:22So now he actually is kind of getting revived, but I think that's, he's the version of the third tight end that needs to be on the field.
21:30Him being 30 is crazy. Dude, the Todd Gurley being younger than Derek Henry is fucking wild.
21:35Is he really? Holy shit. Todd Gurley is only 31.
21:38Dude. DK and I made that bet at this point, like five years, six years ago.
21:43You were like, Todd Gurley will never play another down.
21:45And I was like, you mean, or I think you'd say he never signed another contract.
21:50He's not even going to be on a team.
21:52And I was like, you're saying play it down.
21:55You're like, no, he won't even sign a contract outside of a ceremonial one day retirement with the Rams.
22:00And I think we waited for, I waited four years to pay you.
22:04I think I paid you on Todd Gurley's 30th birthday.
22:07Whenever he retired. You just sent me a Venmo with no context.
22:10I was like, what is this? I don't know.
22:13Why is he paying me? The only other thing I, this, we had to talk about this, which is CJ Stroud reported to the Texans.
22:20And man, he looks like Bryce young with the bat.
22:23He looks like a middle school. We all stop wearing backpacks.
22:26I got a old basketball. Adam Sandler. I got a nicer bag.
22:29I got a work bag. You got like a portfolio.
22:32I don't know. I don't know about this. Look at that, man.
22:36He's just wearing the Adam Sandler shorts. He's got the Adam Sandler shorts and he's like, and he's wearing this backpack and
22:42he just looks like it's the first day of eighth grade.
22:45Yeah. Yeah. I think quarterback is one of the more fascinating positions in sports because like this man is an elite athlete.
22:51You know what I mean? Right. Like there was a moment where people like, this is the new face of the NFL
22:57and he might be the best quarterback in the league.
23:00You just have no idea with quarterbacks. CJ Stroud set the record for most consecutive three pointers made on the sideline of an NFL game while warming up.
23:08And he looks like a goofball here. Dude. But I don't know.
23:12You can go either way. Maybe if he's too manicured, looks too good.
23:15It's like, what do you, where are your priorities?
23:18You know what I mean? Like he's all about playing fucking ball.
23:21He doesn't care how he looks. Yeah. Exactly. You got like the Andrew Luck thing.
23:25Like devil may, devil may care attitude with your fashion.
23:28He got up, he put a white t-shirt on, grabbed his backpack.
23:32I was too busy winning. Walked into the, you know, to camp.
23:35That's all you want. I'm in. I'm back in.
23:38Oh my God. Okay. With that said, I want to get to siren song players for, for 2026.
23:43And this is inspired by the Odyssey. It's not a spoiler.
23:46It's fine. But there's sirens in the Odyssey. There's beautiful women on rocks.
23:50They sing. They try to get you in, in the water.
23:53Beautiful song. And we wanted to go through a few, I think this was like a perfect exercise for the NFL season
23:59because there are players that are just kind of like siren songs.
24:02Just honestly, like these sexy players that you're just ready to risk it all for.
24:07And then you kind of get there and they're just going to like eat you live.
24:11And you know, they're going to ruin your season or make your life perfect.
24:15What do the sirens actually do once you go to them?
24:18I think they make you crash into the rocks and you die.
24:22You can't even actually get to them. You die on the way.
24:25I don't know if you have sex with them.
24:28I think they just, I think they kill you and eat you.
24:31Oh, they, oh really? I don't know. Yeah, that was what I was thinking.
24:35Is it a spoiler? It's not in the movie.
24:37I don't, is that like a spoiler? Oh, the sirens are in the movie, but they eat you or let you starve.
24:44Oh, they eat you. Wow. Man. A lot of, a lot of, you know, eat, a lot of people getting eaten in these.
24:50Did you ever thought about like, just like you were watching those nature documentaries and just think about like, what if like,
24:56like a bird picks up a fish and flies away?
24:59Can you imagine if a bird like picked you up and flew away with you?
25:04Dude. It'd be horrible. Yeah. I saw a video the other day of whales doing these things to dolphins where one whale
25:10will hold a dolphin and then another whale will pick up speed and start flying towards the dolphin and then one whale will let it go.
25:17it was a tuna. Oh, oh, sorry. It was a tuna.
25:20Yes. And the whale slams into the tuna and the tuna explodes into a dust.
25:25Tuna dust. And then they just kind of eat around and just eat the dust.
25:29Yeah. And the report was like, they either do this for fun or they do this to feed their young in small bites or both.
25:36I was like, I mean, yeah, they're just battering ram tuna.
25:39Exploding to this dude. They, they fuck around with puff puffer fish to get high.
25:43They fucking punt seals. Yeah. They punt seals. They'll like, dude, orcas are there should fuck shark week.
25:48They got to do it. We got to bring back killer.
25:51I know. Orcas will eat the livers of sharks.
25:54Off the coast of Vancouver. I went whale watching last year.
25:57Saw a bunch of orcas. There. I wouldn't want to be in.
26:01Orcas are the apex of all apex predators. They are.
26:03They're just giant. Well, they're great whites. They're wolves.
26:06They're insane. They're giant wolves. They're scary. Whale deserves more respect.
26:09I think we need, whale needs to be in the name of a sports team.
26:13I think whale has this negative connotation of like a fat guy or something.
26:17Oh, look at this whale. Whales are fucking badass.
26:20And there should be, you know, we should have, it shouldn't have been the Vancouver Grizzlies, Vancouver whales.
26:25That would have been sick. Well, cause there was the Hartford whalers and they had the, the logo as a tail, but even that's the whaler killing.
26:33I agree. Whales are sick. There's so many. Whales are really cool.
26:36Hell yeah. Yeah. The, should we do football? You want to keep doing this?
26:40Cause I have a, how'd that come up again?
26:42Siren? If I start a new team on the coast and there's whales nearby, all right, Oh, is this from, this is,
26:49this is Luther burden actively singing to me. Put the wax in your ears guys.
26:53No, I won't. That is what Luther burden sounds like to Craig.
26:56Basically. That's correct. Just jump out of the way.
26:59Just jump out of the boat. I know it's a stupid analogy, but like the six weeks of training camp.
27:05No, it's all we do is hype and training camp videos.
27:08And it does end up with that effect where that's what it sounds like to be like, Oh, well just, I will
27:14be complete if I just take Luther burden. Yes.
27:16Do we want to start with the sirens? Is that the category we're going to think so?
27:21I will play the music. So what are we going to do and do that?
27:26So, yeah, these are the people who, I mean, it's self-explanatory, but like perhaps the hype is, is too strong and you're
27:32getting a little bit caught up in something that isn't actually there, but I am, I'm not putting my wax.
27:37I'm not putting wax in the ears for Luther burden.
27:40I want to listen. I want to be, I want it to wash over me.
27:45I'm jumping out of the boat. I'm swimming right up to him.
27:48I don't care if he's gleefully going to his death.
27:51Yeah. I mean, look, I'll, I'll pitch you all of the reasons why I'm in.
27:55And you can tell me why it's all a facade, but it's funny.
27:59Cause a lot of the reasons why I'm going to tout him are going to be the same reasons why I am
28:05against Zay Flowers, which is just kind of the perfect reason why I like a sexual, but Ben, first of all, just
28:11quotes alone, Ben Johnson, the way he speaks about this man who he drafted.
28:15This is what Ben Johnson has said this off season about Luther burden.
28:19When he gets the ball in his hands, he's a problem child.
28:22I am buying Luther burden stock right now. The way he's approached this season, he has been electric.
28:27You can look at like basically amongst rookies who have like a minimum amount of, you know, routes and targets and stuff like that.
28:34Over the last 15 years, Luther burden is like the second best rookie ever in, in like the yards per route run metric metric.
28:41It's basically like AJ Brown, Luther burden, Odell Beckham.
28:44And when you look at when Odundse met, when Roma Doundse missed the final five games of the regular season burden, led
28:50the team in yards despite missing a game himself over that stretch.
28:53And he had a 3.52 yards per route run during that stretch.
28:57And Roma Doundse was out. That is like best in the league type shit.
29:01Again, I know that like his style is a little bit more like he is designed to get the ball when he's in.
29:07And they would bring him in to kind of like manufacture touches for him.
29:11But DJ Moore has gone out of Chicago. He by far played the most snaps for the Freddie Bears wide receiver.
29:17And so now there's a lot up for grabs in that regard.
29:20And burden, if it was 2023 and burden had his sophomore year at Missouri, and he was eligible to go in the
29:27draft, he was going to be a top 10 pick.
29:29The mocks heading into 2024 were like, Luther burden is gonna be a top 10 pick.
29:34And because Missouri wasn't that good in, the situation was kind of a mess.
29:38And Luther burden had a down year. He fell to the second round.
29:42And so I wonder if Luther burden was just the ninth pick in the draft, because, because the 2024 season didn't happen,
29:48how would we feel about where he is right now?
29:51Looking at all his crazy, very efficient, all those small sample size metrics from his rookie season.
29:56I mean, yeah, I think he's like, hop off the boat with me.
29:59He's the type of player coming in. The water's fine.
30:02When you see him move, like he just moves.
30:05That's the other thing. Just watch him. You're like, I get it.
30:08He could, he should have been a six star prospect.
30:11Honestly, when you watch it with the ball, it's funny because like, I'm just looking at the receiver group, the 39th, 40th
30:17and 41st ranked players in terms of receiving yards in the NFL or DJ more, Roman duns and Luther burden right in a row.
30:24So I don't know what to make of that, but yeah, I do think just pedigree overall, you know, explosiveness and juice as a player.
30:31Whoa. I'm really sorry. It's almost through my keyboard.
30:34Got too excited. Is that you're excited? I swear that never happens.
30:37But yeah, I don't know. There is a lot to like here, but he is.
30:41If you just look at the ADP, if you look at where he is, he's going to have to draft it.
30:47It's like everybody around him has already done it.
30:50And he, everybody needs to cool the fuck off with, with Luther burden.
30:53ADP. I also have a cool name, Luther burden.
30:56Yeah. If he was named Luther, if he was named Michael Pittman, it wouldn't be that exciting.
31:01I think to get, to get slightly more real, like serious about the way that he's incorporated into the offense.
31:06I do like that. I think burden is the type of guy who, like I said earlier, he gets the manufactured touches.
31:13He gets the ball behind the line of scrimmage.
31:15He gets like the screen passes. It's very different than the way they use Roma duns, a who is like more down the field.
31:22And when you look at inaccurate throw rates, which Caleb has been, it's a little bit scattered.
31:27There's differing opinions about that, but burden by far has the lowest inaccurate throw rate from Caleb Williams, just because 20% of
31:33his targets are out or behind the line of scrimmage.
31:36And so it's like a duns is more high variance.
31:39And I think burden is like, you can kind of guarantee yourself.
31:42He's going to get like five touches a game that are going to put him in a position that he's kind of
31:48best to thrive in, which is just like ball on his hands in space and ready to move rather than having him
31:55do something that he's not meant to do. I agree with everything.
31:58I agree. The reason I think you're going to die on the rocks is just because when it's like Luther burden around
32:04all these other guys, I just like, I feel like Luther burden, it's not a perfect comp, but he is kind of the Jameson Williams of Chicago.
32:12When Ben Johnson was running the lions offense, I think he's kind of like Jameson Williams and Jameson Williams.
32:17Who's the Amon rock? You're saying that's Roma duns day.
32:20Cause I would argue it's Luther burden. I, I just, the idea that he's both burden is going to be true.
32:26I don't know the idea of burden going ahead of like Ted, a row of McMillan or like, I don't know, maybe
32:32I just, but then again, when you say all those things and then I watch him play football, I will say he,
32:39Luther burden passes the test of when the season starts.
32:41Do you want that? When you watch football, do you want to point the screen?
32:46Be like that guy's on my team. Yeah. Because watching honestly, cam just played again.
32:50It does sound like this. Um, this is like the white ships and Lord of the Rings.
32:55It's like, am I, I'm not giving anything away when I say that Odysseus decided to listen to the siren song in the movie.
33:01And that's where all the memes are born. Um, the, his reasoning for it was like, no one else has ever done it.
33:08So why not me? Yeah. I feel like, I want to see it.
33:12I want to see it. No one else. I could be the first guy.
33:16No one else has ever heard the siren song and survived.
33:19So that means I should do it. Like that.
33:21Your logic isn't making any sense to me, pal, but it's like Trump looking at the eclipse.
33:26You know? Yeah. He has stronger eyes. His doctor says his eyes are perfect to look at the sun.
33:32Um, don't you think at this, at this point in drafts, like, look, you're trying to pick guys who are, you don't want to get fourth.
33:39You know what I mean? Like, yeah, Garrett Wilson's fine.
33:42He's going three spots ahead of Luther Burden, Ted McMillan, Travis Etienne, you know, David Montgomery, DJ Moore, Terry McLaurin.
33:47These are guys going around Luther Burden. I don't think any of those guys are going to win your league.
33:53I think Luther Burden could win your league. And if he doesn't, you're wrong, but that's, that's fair.
33:58Garrett Wilson's a good example. He's a wax in your ears guy.
34:02Like that's the person you put the wax in your ears.
34:05Cause the training camp hype happens. And there's talking about Garrett Wilson looks good.
34:09Gina looks good. You're like, why don't you just put the wax in your ears?
34:13Just, you know, you're stepping on, you're stepping on my stuff.
34:16DK Wilson's ever had. Yeah. There's going to be a lot of that.
34:20Isn't he, isn't Garrett Wilson like a wax in your ears guy, DK?
34:23Yes, we will get to that. We will get to that.
34:27Just do it now. Well, you already stepped on Jameson Williams, who is my, my, my siren song guy.
34:32Oh yeah. Do we want to get to that?
34:34Or do we want to go straight into the other?
34:37Do Jameson. That's a siren. Jumping around. So you're, you're getting sucked in.
34:41What's different? I look at Jameson. He's an archetype here.
34:44He is. Yeah. He is the exact type of player.
34:47I tend to fall through, fall for because of the big playability.
34:50And like you said, with Luther Burton, like when he moves, it's just different.
34:54You love when the cars go by. He can turn any catch into a touchdown.
34:58And all in the burden, like the burden story is basically all he needs to do is play more.
35:04And I think he's going to score a lot of fantasy points with Jameson Williams.
35:08It's like, all you need to do is not be a knucklehead and you're going to score a shitload of fantasy points.
35:14And I, and I feel like this could be the year he does this.
35:18I don't know if you guys realize this. And then this is like part of the reason I'm talking myself into him.
35:24But last year he was eighth in the NFL and receiving yards.
35:28He had the exact same amount of yards as Nico Collins.
35:31He was eighth in the NFL. Yes. Last year.
35:33Oh, wow. Nikhil says that Jameson Williams and Luther Burton went to the same high school.
35:38Crazy. That's so shit. We're both falling for this guys, but I, I just look, we love really fast guys from that one high school.
35:45Yes. He's so fast. He's so much faster than everyone else around him.
35:49He just, he is, he's that, he is literally a siren song.
35:52I'm just like, I know that this is not going to be good for me, but I'm going for it.
35:58Look, the slamma slut shorts, not helping matters. Doesn't inspire confidence necessarily, but I'm still like, he's a little bit like Darius,
36:04Tony, not like to full on Cadareous. No one else is going to go full Cadareous.
36:09You don't, you never go full Cadareous, but like, he is just a little bit off, off kilter.
36:14And I'm like, I kind of want to be on that, on that.
36:17Yeah. That's like me with Scadaboo. I'm like, and obviously like, look, the lions have a very easy schedule going to this year.
36:24I think their offense could have a big bounce back this season.
36:27And it's going to be focused on the three guys.
36:30It's going to be almond, Ross, St. Brown, Jameson Williams and Laporta.
36:34And if they're off, what's different this year? Like, is it the same?
36:37We're just in the same. It's not a lot.
36:40I think it's not a lot different, but the thing is like, I think Jameson Williams was better than you remember last year.
36:46I mean, he finished as the, it was like the wide receiver, 18 on the year.
36:51You know, he was like, just, he basically scored almost the same amount of points as CD lamb and a game per game basis.
36:58I just feel like he's a little underrated and I'm getting sucked in to just looking at all these stats.
37:03I'm like, man, I think this could be a big year for him.
37:07But I, I also kind of know it's probably not going to be good for me.
37:12I mean, he is a real, he's the definition of like a Twitter hype guy.
37:16I feel like every year you read lions are going to get Jameson Williams, the ball a little bit more.
37:21He's making the leap. I know we said he was making the leap last year, but he looks different this year in camp.
37:28They do that every year. I'm going to think he's going to make the leap every year until he retires.
37:34So the reason I think DK could be right about Jameson Williams.
37:37And the reason I'm a little more partial to it is that, so the lions obviously, and these guys are related Luther
37:43bird and James Williams, because Ben Johnson was the lines office coordinator for three years and then made them one of the,
37:49as DK always say the most aesthetically pleasing offense ever.
37:52Yeah. And then Ben Johnson laughed in the bears offense, really figured themselves out over the second half of the season.
37:58Kind of a lot of comebacks, a lot of, they figured it out after the first three quarters ended, but Jameson Williams,
38:05they had this guy, John Morton replaced Ben Johnson as the offensive coordinator in Detroit.
38:09And John Morton, Dan Campbell took play calling from him midway through the season.
38:13And then they fired John Morton at the end of the year, but Dan Campbell took play calling from John Morton.
38:19Basically. Cause John Morton could not figure out how to get James Williams, the football and Dan Campbell loves James Williams, and
38:25they could not get James Williams, the football. And so when John Morton half with the first half of the season, when
38:31John Morton was calling plays, James Williams had 350 yards.
38:34And then after Dan Campbell took over, he literally had more than double the yards in the second half of the season.
38:40James Williams went from 350 to over 750 from first half, second half.
38:44Cause Dan Campbell was calling plays the first. I mean, it's Washington.
38:47Their defense was tough, but the first game, Dan Campbell took over.
38:51James Williams had seven targets for 119 yards and a touchdown.
38:54And the rest of the season, he was a larger part.
38:57So I think that there is a world where the lions and also there are other, they're going to have Isaac to
39:03slide as like a starting X receiver and three receiver sets.
39:06I think he's like a shot guy, but not a big target guy.
39:10I do think it's going to be like a Monra, Jameson and Gibbs are the only parts of this passing game.
39:16So I think that I could, I, I I'm a little more lured by Jameson, especially because he's cheaper, which is crazy to me than Luther burden.
39:24I get it. I do get it. DK. He's the wide, he's going as the, according to ADP, the wide receiver 27.
39:30Yeah. And he finished last year as the wide receiver 18.
39:33It's just like, they're so set when they have the ball in the hands, you feel invincible.
39:38Yeah. When he, when they're holding the ball, you feel so smart.
39:41Like it's going to happen here. This is it.
39:44Just get him, just get him two more targets a game.
39:47And it's, he'll light the world on fire. This episode is brought to you by Netflix.
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40:05Eastern 4 30 PM. Pacific somewhere out there is a Chevy truck and the person who drives it.
40:10Well, that's a Chevy person. You'd probably know one, your buddy, your sister, ones who always show up to the first to rise, the last to leave.
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40:22Chevrolet together. Let's drive. Visit chevy.com slash trucks to explore the lineup.
40:25Since we mentioned it, I do want to, do you want to, should we mention the guy you mentioned?
40:31Cause the guy, they're going right around Garrett Wilson and you mentioned it, but Garrett Wilson is the opposite of this, which
40:37is a, instead of drinking in the hype and diving in the water, it's Garrett Wilson.
40:41I think of the jet. Yeah. Put the wax in your ears, be disciplined.
40:45Don't, don't get sucked into this. I don't care what they say during, uh, during the OTAs, during training camp, during preseason.
40:51I don't care how many targets he gets. I am going to try and avoid the jets altogether this year.
40:57Uh, the jets, you know that did you, you guys have seen office space, right?
41:01You know, the scene where he goes in to get hypnotized cause he's just having a hard time.
41:07He's like, so sitting in my cubicle today. And I realized ever since I started working every single day of my life
41:13has been worse than the day before it. So that means every single day that you see me, that's the worst day of my life.
41:20So it's today the worst day of your life.
41:22Yeah. Wow. That's messed up. Um, that's kind of how I feel about the jets.
41:27Like whenever you think it can sink any further, it's like, God, this, this is really happening for the jets.
41:32I feel terrible for the jets. The jets fans deserve better.
41:35Um, that being said, I don't want to get on that ride and be a part of the jets in any way.
41:42Every day is the worst day of their life.
41:44I, I tried to do this last year with Gino Smith and it was an abject failure.
41:49It was a disaster. And I still liked, you know, I want him to bounce back, but I also don't want to
41:55have any skin in the game on that. Hope.
41:58You know what I mean? No, you just, you can't be involved.
42:01Even if you like pull up Garrett Wilson stats, you can, you can start to talk yourself into it.
42:07You're like, well, you know, last year he was hurt.
42:09year before that, a hundred catches, 1100 yards, like seven touchdowns.
42:13That's not so bad. He's never had less than 83 touch catches in a full season.
42:17Like Gino's the best quarterback he's ever had in theory.
42:20Fuck all that. Don't do any of that. Yeah.
42:22This is why we needed to do this episode.
42:25Is there are some players you're going to hear all this hype and you're like fucking literally, it's better to learn nothing
42:31over the next six weeks than to talk yourself into just close your ears, close your eyes and pop back out at
42:38the end of August and do a draft. Wait, didn't someone just said it, we had a group chat.
42:43Didn't someone just text the quote Plaxico Burris had about the jets.
42:46Oh yeah, I said that. Yeah. What can you mean?
42:49Plaxico Burris. Again, this is underdog tweeted this. I'm assuming it's correct.
42:53Plaxico Burris compared playing with the jets to prison.
42:55He said, they're both kind of similar because when I walked into prison on my first day, I was like, damn, man, you're a fucking loser.
43:02And I had the same feeling when I walked through the door of the jet.
43:07Brutal. Dude. Wow, that's messed up. I feel like, and I know jets fans kind of hate me because I dig at
43:13them a lot, but I will say it all seriousness.
43:16This is a, this is coming from a giants fan.
43:19I am very bullish on the jets. Actually long term.
43:21Look, the fish rots from the head. As long as Woody Johnson's running the team, you're going to have problems.
43:27I, but they have three first round picks next year.
43:30Like the jets, they have the only team with a truly young, talented offensive line that over a five year period looks really good.
43:37Along with a small group of teams. Having said that, there's just so many things that like, if I've learned anything in fantasy, just, just walk away.
43:44Aaron Glenn is absolutely a lame duck head coach.
43:47Like he got called to Woody Johnson's, the owner's house three weeks after the season ended, had to stay there and then
43:53like defended his job and then left. And then fired a third of the staff three weeks after he go, go to the guy's house.
44:00That's a bad sign. Aaron Glenn is a lame duck.
44:03He's not going to be the coach of whatever quarterback they draft next year.
44:07No fucking shot. Then he was forced to hire Frank Reich who has been out of the league for the last two seasons.
44:14And the last two jobs he had in the NFL, he was fired in the middle of the year.
44:19Frank Reich has not had a positive impact on an NFL team since COVID in 2020.
44:24He's running the offense and all to just rehash a quarterback that they got rid of 12 years ago.
44:29Like they got rid of Gino Smith 12 years ago with a coordinator who's not been in the NFL for two years
44:35with a coach that is like almost certainly going to get fired at the end of the season.
44:40This will never work. It has no chance of working and I won't be sucked into it.
44:45I know Frank Reich is 64 years old. Is that the oldest play caller in the NFL?
44:50Andy Reid. Yeah. Again, Andy, like Andy, well, Andy Reid was just going to three Super Bowls in a row.
44:56Frank Reich, also he went to Stanford. Stanford was horrible.
44:58Like he wasn't even good in college. Like you miss a lot if you miss two seasons.
45:03It's a shame that Gino's on the Jets because it is almost like what happened in Seattle never happened.
45:09You know, like I'm almost already forgetting that Gino Smith revitalized his career.
45:12And now when I think of him, I'm just like, oh, yeah, Jets, Raiders, Jets.
45:17The Raiders this last year kind of. Now I'm like, oh, Gino's on the Jets.
45:21Nothing's changed. I mean, yeah. And it's not been a good start to him in New York either.
45:26There's like. Oh, yeah. He has things off the.
45:28If Gino Smith, 12 years after the Jets got rid of him, successfully revives with Frank Reich two years out of the
45:35NFL and Aaron Glenn as a lame duck. Then you know what?
45:38I guess I won't win my fantasy league. Like, I think also key.
45:42Just like maybe let's talk about it from a more positive point of view, even if he is like better and makes the offense better.
45:49There's actually a lot of people. There's a lot of mouths to feed in this offense.
45:53Now they got Garrett Wilson, who's been awesome in his career.
45:57But I, you know, again, just don't want to be on that ride.
46:00But they just drafted Omar Cooper and Kenyon Sadiq in the first round of the draft this year.
46:05And they also have Adonai Mitchell, A.D. Mitchell, who's been getting a lot of praise, you know, which is, again, kind of nerve wracking.
46:12They have Mason Taylor. I'd rather take a shot at A.D.
46:15Mitchell off like the last pick in my draft than Garrett Wilson.
46:19If you want a piece of the Jets, take A.D.
46:21Mitchell, not Garrett Wilson. Honestly, yeah. The third or fourth round or whatever it is.
46:26So I'm just like, I don't want to talk myself into this.
46:29They like I can. I know that there are ways I can talk myself into this because I'm like, I like Gino.
46:35He was good with the Seahawks. They have a good offensive line.
46:39I'm putting the wax in my ears and I'm just going to avoid it.
46:43Would you guys rather have a version of wax in the ears?
46:46Would you guys rather have Garrett Wilson or Luther Burden straight up?
46:50Burden because Burden is a talented. Garrett Wilson's also talented.
46:52Burden's a talented player on a great team with a great coach and a great quarterback.
46:57And the Jets have none of those things. Yeah, I think so.
47:00Who's your wax? You don't sound as confident. My wax is going to be Zay Flowers.
47:05And I want to talk this out with you guys because I feel like there's been a lot of Zay Flowers buzz already on social media.
47:12There was like a Jesse Minter sat down for it was on some podcast.
47:16And now it's like you can't read an article about the Ravens without seeing a quote from that fucking podcast that Jesse Minter did.
47:23He said about Zay Flowers, he's not just a slot guy.
47:26He's not just an outside guy. He's not just a gadget guy.
47:29He can do everything. I look forward to getting him the ball as many ways as possible.
47:34We're better when he has the ball in his hands.
47:37And everyone's like, you know, Declan Doyle is their new OC.
47:40Declan Doyle is younger than Heifetz and Ice, 30 years old.
47:43That's wild. It's Jamal Adams' age. Is he older than, is he younger than Jimmy Stones, James Gladstone?
47:48Oh, for sure. Stones is like 35. Oh, wow.
47:51Gladstone just looks 19. Gladstone looks Ben Solak's age.
47:54He's 36? Gladstone, for those of you who don't know, the Jam of the Jaguars, when he stepped up to the podium,
48:00there's no photo of him at the combine. I thought he was the PR intern adjusting the mic.
48:05He was wearing like a pleasure stuff. Yeah. So Declan Doyle, you know, this new, the reports coming out of camp with him, by the way, also glowing.
48:13The way that Lamar Jackson and Zay Flowers and Mark Andrews are talking about Declan Doyle, they've called him a genius.
48:19He sees things that I never have. Him teaching us that details matter and creativity is just mind-blowing, which kind of makes me worried about Harbaugh, John Harbaugh.
48:27I'm like, them being like, yeah, Declan Doyle is really teaching us how important details are.
48:31I'm like, the reading, the read between the lines quotes are great.
48:35Mark Andrews was like, yeah, the details are just, it's interesting, you know, how important details are.
48:40The New York Giants. He didn't know he was supposed to do a speech.
48:43Also, Zay Flowers on a different pod. Zay Flowers was on Leonard Fournette and, why am I blank on his name?
48:49Landry, the receiver. Jarvis Landry. Jarvis Landry. Yeah, there's an LSU pod, there's a Bama pod.
48:54Fournette and Landry have a pod and Zay Flowers was on it.
48:57And Flowers was like talking about how Harbaugh made everybody practice super hard all season.
49:02He's like, it was week 17 and we were still doing like hitting drills one-on-ones.
49:06Like, it was brutal. We were all so tired and hurt.
49:09And he was like, Minter told me and Declan Doyle told me that like, we're not going to be doing that.
49:15And we're going to make it a lot easier on you guys.
49:18And I was like, fuck, Harbaugh. Yeah, there are two teams that are hurt all the time.
49:23And it's the Ravens and the 49ers. And everyone's like, I'm not to pick on Kyle Shanahan after he almost died in his car accident.
49:30But like Shanahan and Harbaugh, along with the Chiefs, run like the two hardest training camps in the NFL.
49:36And I get what they're trying to do where they build guys up.
49:39But also those teams are absolutely battered and destroyed.
49:42People are like, why does the substation get all the Niners hurt?
49:45I'm like, maybe it's the crazy intense physical practices that they have all year.
49:49Think about how the grit these guys have, though.
49:52Yeah, they have so much grit. They're great at rehabbing.
49:55So anyway, glowing reports from the coaching staff. And Zay Flowers is like this, like, he's going to be the beneficiary of this new coaching staff.
50:02He turns 26 years old in September, Zay Flowers.
50:05He's entering his fourth year in the league. He's never had more than five touchdowns in a season.
50:10He basically has like 75 catches, 1,000-ish yards, five touchdowns every year.
50:13That's kind of his thing. Last year, he was the wide receiver 14.
50:17And if you just look at that as a blank number, you're like, wow, wide receiver 14.
50:22But when you really dig into it, he only scored 11 and a half fantasy points a game, which would have been
50:28the wide receiver 25 the year before. Like, the number of wide receiver 14 doesn't accurately represent, like, how well he was doing.
50:34As someone who had Zay Flowers, he was fucking useless.
50:37Because most of his points were week one, where you probably weren't playing him.
50:41And then week 18 was his best game of the season.
50:44From week two to week 14, he was basically useless.
50:47I did it. Like, eight, nine points. Oh, did you really?
50:50And then even, like, you look at his last two years.
50:53So after his rookie season, his last two years on average, he's a wide receiver 29 in points.
50:58He's 29th in targets per game. He's 34th in receiving touchdowns.
51:02He's 50th in red zone targets among just wide receivers.
51:04That number is staggering. When you look at who he's next to.
51:08So the last two years, Zay Flowers, 50th in red zone targets.
51:11He has the same amount of red zone targets in the last two years as Alan Lazard, Tim Patrick, and Andre Yoshivas.
51:17Oh! That's wild. He's just non-existent. He gets one end zone target every three weeks.
51:22It's brutal. And on the other side, you're like, well, his target rate was 5th in the NFL last year.
51:27His yards per route run were 7th. Like, he's clearly a talented guy.
51:31He had the 6th most yards. Totally. So I can't really.
51:34But it's in the context. So I feel strongly about this.
51:37Please put the asses on it. The guy doesn't score touchdowns.
51:40He doesn't score touchdowns. I feel stronger about this than any player this season, which if it's been any indication suggests you should take Zay Flowers.
51:48Because sometimes the player I hate the most means I'm always wrong.
51:51Except when it's Christian McCaffrey and Saquon. Other than those people.
51:54But Zay Flowers, I feel that the 6th in yards, all that stuff is in the context of that Rich Rebar, that great article at Warren Sharpe's website.
52:02He's 6th in yards in the lowest season for receiver yardage in 10 years.
52:06And the second lowest receiver yardage since fantasy football has been on the internet.
52:10That's why I'm saying the wide receiver 14 thing last year is not really happening.
52:14It's not real. And it doesn't matter if you're like 6th in receiving yardage if you have no touchdowns.
52:20When the point is, touchdowns are proportionally a higher percentage of receiver scoring than ever.
52:24And so, yeah, you're getting some yardage. That's cool.
52:27But if you, again, there is so much that goes into this.
52:30But I thought, Craig, you put it very simply a few episodes ago.
52:34Two years ago, Lamar Jackson threw 44 goddamn touchdowns.
52:36And Zay Flowers got four of the 44. And it's largely the same team.
52:40It's kind of like Dallas Goddard and the Eagles where he would have four touchdowns, three or four touchdowns every year.
52:46And the one year randomly had 10. And it's like a dice roll.
52:50There's a dice roll season where one of the six outcomes is Zay Flowers randomly has 11 touchdowns this year.
52:55But every other season, he's going to just have four because he's going to get one end zone target because he's with Derek Henry.
53:02He's the greatest goddamn goal. Like he's always going to get the ball.
53:06And Zay Flowers is not a thing in the end zone.
53:09So maybe Declan Doyle changes as Zay Flowers is used.
53:12And I hate to just throw around the JSN role, which is just a fancy way to say, what if we try
53:18to get this ball, the guy, the ball all the time?
53:21But until that changes, and that is my fear of the blind spot as well.
53:26What if they just start giving Zay Flowers the ball all the time?
53:29But I am not afraid of Zay Flowers burning us until he is just getting more than an end zone target every three weeks.
53:36Also, he just needs to run fucking straight. Zay Flowers is quicker than fast and he's not as quick as he thinks he is.
53:43And he tries to beat everyone laterally. And it's like, holy shit, go north south, my guy.
53:48Like if there's one guy you're supposed to go around him, there's two you split him.
53:52He never fucking splits the two defenders. He tries to outrun two people.
53:56And you can tell I lost the championship. Well, maybe boy genius Declan Doyle is going to fix that.
54:01Dude, he runs. No one runs north south. He's like only fast players try to outrun guys, but he's the slowest person that tries to do it.
54:09The Ravens are like a tragic figure. When I think of Zay Flowers, I think of him trying to reach over the
54:15goal line and getting the ball knocked out against the Chiefs.
54:18And then I was going to say, you know, in the spirit of the A.D.
54:23Mitchell thing, if you don't want to, if you want to get a piece of the Jets, get A.D.
54:28Mitchell. If you want a piece of the Ravens, obviously, like I'm very pro Derrick Henry, very pro Lamar Jackson.
54:34But like in the receiving game late, get Mark Andrews.
54:36But the only thing I think of with Mark Andrews is him dropping like really high leverage passes, you know, games that
54:43can send them to the Super Bowl. Like, God damn it.
54:46It is insane. They're such a tragic team. Yeah.
54:48Zay Flowers, it should have been one of the greatest moments in football history.
54:52Like him just like goal line space, space jam, Michael Jordan for a touchdown.
54:56The Bills and the Ravens of the last five years are just brutal.
55:00Just fucking brutal. I mean, the Bills. It's insane.
55:02Yeah. 90s. My wax in the ears guy, I have to say, again, just in the spirit of just looking at how
55:09last season is and how the players played and then like what's going to happen with training camp and all the hype and it's already starting.
55:16The thing I'm going to just tell myself and I'm going to float through camp and draft this way to have him on my team.
55:23Ramondre Stevenson is a better football player than Travion Henderson.
55:26He will be a better fantasy football player than Travion Henderson.
55:29I don't care about the hype. I don't care about anything.
55:32Like you're going to hear all the stuff about Travion.
55:35Ramondre will start. Ramondre will play more. He will get the ball more.
55:39He will catch more. He will run more. He will get more touchdowns.
55:42He'll have more catches and he will play more and he'll have more fantasy points.
55:47And he's going later than him. And it's because everyone wants to fucking old yeller, the veteran running back the moment there's a cool rookie.
55:54Meanwhile, I don't care what efficiency stats or how fast Travion Henderson runs.
55:57Travion Henderson cannot block. And Ramondre Stevenson's a good blocker.
56:00And he's going to get the goal line work.
56:03He was good at blocking in college. He was not good last year.
56:07Let me tell you something. PFF grades are not gospel.
56:09But for this purpose, they suit my purpose. So I will use them.
56:13But the pro football focus. Say the quiet part out loud.
56:16I'm just being transparent. Pro football focus grades on running backs pass blocking.
56:20Which is, again, it's not perfect. But I think it's illustrative.
56:23If you just look at every running back that had blocked 45 times last year.
56:27Ramondre Stevenson's third best in pass blocking. Travion Henderson's literally last.
56:30Just last. Dead last. Dead last. And is that like a perfect representation?
56:34No. Is it gospel? No. Is that significant when Drake May is the essence of your team?
56:39Absolutely. And you know what? That came up. When the Patriots needed to grind out a game, the AFC Championship game versus the Broncos, you know what happened?
56:47Ramondre Stevenson played 60 snaps and Travion Henderson played four.
56:50Who do you trust? I'm just saying like Vrabel doesn't trust Henderson.
56:53And maybe he will get such a better blocker.
56:56But what happens is then Ramondre Stevenson was a better receiver down the stretch.
57:00He's getting the long down and distance work. It's like you're like, oh, well, Henderson will catch passes.
57:05Not till he can block and be on the down for passing downs.
57:08He has to beat Ramondre at the goal line.
57:11I think it'll be a split slightly favoring Ramondre at the goal line.
57:15And Ramondre is going to get the passing down work.
57:17And I'm not saying Henderson won't rotate in, but he's a rotational player.
57:21And Ramondre has the lead of this committee. And people want him to just disappear like Thanos snap.
57:26And he's not going to. Thanos. Fuck. Thanos. I really enjoy how very, very strongly you're coming in with this take.
57:32I agree. This is a very mature take. I don't think I agree with it, to be honest.
57:37I'm kind of waxing my ears. No one's going to agree with me for six weeks.
57:42I won't find one person. We're like the, you know, whatever.
57:45I'm right in the middle. Craig, you are staunchly pro Travion.
57:48I'm kind of like, eh, I think they'll probably.
57:51I mean, if you look at last year, they scored almost the exact same amount of points per game basis.
57:56And their touches per game were very, very similar.
57:59Their yards per touch were similar. Their receptions per game were similar.
58:02Um, I'm just kind of like, they'll probably have a pretty even split.
58:06I'm like very milquetoast on the Travion Romandre. I do think I agree strongly with Heifetz that we pronounced Romandre Stevenson dead
58:12way before he actually should have been. He's like 26 years old.
58:16But that being said, I do kind of, I land in the middle.
58:19I'm like, I bet they'll, I bet they'll end up scoring right around the same amount of points per game.
58:25Romandre is 28. To your point. First of all, I love Travion Henderson.
58:29He's a very, very fun, very cool player. I am just saying Mike Vrabel needs him to protect Drake May to stay on the field.
58:36And that matters. And to the point what I'm making.
58:38So if I, if we use like average draft position and best ball, which is not like a perfect conduit, but it's helpful.
58:45Travion Henderson's right now going 54th ahead of Jamison Williams, ahead of Tyler Warren.
58:49Ahead of Joe Burrow. And then if you look at Romandre Stevenson, he's going 20 picks later.
58:54So if you're in a 10 team league to bordering on three rounds later, like, you know, depending on where you could pick, he's going 20 picks later.
59:02It's Romandre Stevenson. Who's going just like behind Tony Pollard, Tucker Kraft, Jordan Tyson, Dak.
59:06Like who's like the ninth quarterback. Like he's going around Trevor Lawrence, like DK Metcalf, much more palatable players to be passing on.
59:13And what I'm saying is that just, if you told me I could have, I'd rather have, I could take Jamison Williams.
59:19And still get Romandre Stevenson. Or you could take Travion Henderson and you'd get like Cortland Sutton.
59:24And to me, that's like a no brainer. I'd rather have Jamison Williams and Romandre.
59:28Yeah. And I know Romandre's not sexy. I agree with that.
59:31I mean, I think this is a logical line of thinking.
59:34I do. Right. I think I just think. It's not cool though.
59:37It's not cool. I think Romandre is like a solid player.
59:41I don't think he's like a difference maker in fantasy.
59:43I guess if you're just like slotting him in as like a flex or something, that's fine.
59:48I understand the idea of me. I almost like you saying don't.
59:52I almost believe more in the don't. Don't take Travion this high more than I do.
59:56You should take Romandre instead. I can hear Scott Barrett, who's one of our friends who always talks about like in fantasy
60:02football, it's like you don't care about batting average.
60:05It's like slugging percentage. Like you're trying to hit home runs.
60:08And like when you win, it's like nailing three important players is more important than like getting 10 picks slightly correct.
60:14And I think what Scott would say is that Travion Henderson, when Romandre got hurt, Travion Henderson was amazing.
60:19It was the Jets. But like he's unbelievable. And Travion Henderson has way better odds to be a top five running back than Romandre does.
60:26Yeah. But also he's not. I just don't think.
60:29Romandre's not. I don't know. He's not going to disappear.
60:32He's only 28. Remember when Travion first touch of the preseason was a hundred yard kick return?
60:37Everyone lost their goddamn minds. And then you know what happened?
60:40He barely fucking played. I don't know. It's just always funny how that works.
60:44He was released. I picked him up in the Ringer Fantasy League.
60:47Like Travion got cut. I will say he had obviously a lot of explosive plays his rookie season.
60:52I don't think Travion Henderson jumps out to me just like on tape as like an elite running back.
60:58It's because you can't see his name. It's so small.
61:01That's true. Oh my God. I forgot about that.
61:03His name is so small in the jersey. Like compared to his former teammate in college, like I think Quinjohn Jenkins is better.
61:10Just like watching him play. Travion Henderson had a lot of 50 yard touchdowns where there was like an open lane and he hit it.
61:17But I don't. He doesn't jump out to me as like this guy moves different.
61:21His vision's not good. He's a linear. He's a linear runner.
61:24Yes. And I think his value in the long term will be in the passing game where he can bring to the passing game.
61:31Yeah. And creating explosives and stuff like that. But yeah, he's not.
61:34He I agree with that, Craig. He's not a super natural, you know, shake guys out of their their jocks in the short area type.
61:41Like I saw two games of Quinjohn Jenkins. I was like, holy shit.
61:45This guy, I think has something. Travion, I never weirdly felt that way, even though he was running 50 yard touchdowns.
61:51It's weird. I still think we should we should do this.
61:54We should like extract some players from the Browns and foist other ones there.
61:58Like to Sean Watson, go to the Browns is perfect.
62:01We don't want to care about him. We don't care about the Browns.
62:05We need other players to just get sent there.
62:07Jerry Judy is perfect, but we need to get Harold Fanon and Quinjohn Jenkins away and just they can keep Judy.
62:13And yeah. Yeah. Who would you send to the Browns?
62:16Who's who would you just kind of want on the Browns?
62:19All guys that I just want disappeared. Yeah. Oh, that's a great call.
62:23You know what I mean? Like not like send Tony Poe.
62:26I was going to say Tony Pollard. That's crazy.
62:28Yeah. Tony Pollard. I don't want to think about him ever again.
62:32Yeah. He can Bucky Irving. We could just send her the Browns.
62:35Oh, damn. Bucky. Send Bucky. Yeah. I know he's exciting.
62:38Rashad. I think Rashad White and Pollard would be a good combo for the Browns.
62:42Sure. Why Pollard? I don't like this. Pollard is fine.
62:45You're offended. I mean, let's be honest. Garrett Wilson's kind of already on the Browns because he's on the Jets.
62:51Garrett Wilson. Yeah. You can't send any Jets or Titans to the Browns.
62:54They're already in the Jets. Honestly, Marvin Harrison Jr.
62:57would be. I'd be fine with that. Wow. And then I'll never think about it.
63:01You've already given up. I agree. On that note, should we?
63:04Is he? It's not quite a siren song, but are we going to stick to our guns waxing our ears and be
63:11like, we're going to rank Michael Wilson ahead of Marvin Harrison Jr.?
63:14We will have to be like 40 spots off consensus to stick to their guns.
63:18Out of spite, I have Michael Wilson one spot ahead of Marvin Harrison.
63:22I did too. And I'm like, do we have a fiduciary duty to not do that?
63:26Nah. I have Marv. I have Marv slightly higher.
63:29It's like, is he good? Should we just be like, well, is there a world where?
63:34I think he is. He's just not as good as we thought he'd be.
63:38He did have a, he had a, he had a ball go through his hands.
63:42Like, I don't even think he was in a, like, he was just playing catch and everyone was like freaking out about it.
63:48It was like, it was like warmup routes and he just missed a wall and everyone's like, fuck.
63:53This is, oh, we're fucked. The season's fucked. Oh God.
63:56He's a bust. What do you, what do you think the best training camp piece of news was that was, was incorrect?
64:02Was it Jamar Chase can't track the ball without the white lines?
64:06A hundred percent. That is, I think to me that.
64:09That is all fucking time. That is one of the, that is one of those stories that is like sort of the
64:15impetus for doing this show is like, don't listen to the beat writer stuff.
64:19Like Jamar Chase. Jamar Chase is having problems catching the ball at training camp.
64:23The greatest college receiver I ever saw with my eyes.
64:26He can't, he can't see the ball well because it doesn't have the white stripes on it.
64:31Dude, that, that, I think, I think these are, I think that, that story and us having to react to it changed until we all see training camp.
64:38It's just like that la la la la la la.
64:41It's just like, there are useful things and that's not one of them.
64:45Oh my God. Pivens, who is your siren song?
64:48We never did that. Oh, my siren. It's again, just the guy that like, I know I need to stay in the
64:54boat and I know these women, if I swim, they will kill me.
64:57Having said that, dude, Basial Tootin and the Jaguars.
65:00That guy is so fast. He's so sexy. I just want him.
65:03Again, this is, I thought coming into the season, like, well, really when last season ended, I was like, Travis, the artist
65:10running back formerly known as Travis Etienne is going to leave the Jags and Tootin's going to be like starter and he's
65:16going to be on every team I have. And I thought that was the plan for him when he was a rookie
65:22and they give him 93 touches or whatever. He's the only player ever to probably get 93 touches his rookie year and
65:28then be ranked within like 25 spots of his fucking touches.
65:32You know what I mean? Like he's going 58th in drafts.
65:35He had like 83 carries. I'm like, how is that possible?
65:38But like, then the Jags like signed Chris Rodriguez and now Tootin's going so high that it's almost like assumed that he's going to be like Travion Henderson.
65:46And I'm kind of like, OK, like this is a three man backfield because you know who?
65:51Honestly, if you know how I said the Travion Henderson stat was like 45.
65:54If you lower that number to like any running back who's blocked like 10 times, dude.
65:59Basial Tootin, not a blocker like Basial Tootin as a small guy.
66:02He's not a blocker. He's like, I got to be.
66:05I got to just be thinking about how fast I'm going.
66:08I can't be thinking about blocking. Nothing at North Carolina A&T or Virginia Tech prepared Basial Tootin for the AFC East.
66:14It's hard. The AFC South with the Houston Texans.
66:17I will defend the rookie running backs who judge for being bad at pass pro because they're not taught to do it in college.
66:24They all suck at it. Everybody sucks. That's why rookie they've been disappointing because they don't know how to do it.
66:30And I'm not trying to be judgmental. They're talented, but they have a different job now.
66:34And all that's to say is. LaQuint Allen is the goddamn long down and distance pass blocker.
66:39Some guys. Some guys are actually just really good at LaQuint.
66:42I think he's one of the better pass blocking and he was a rookie, so I guess maybe.
66:47Yeah, Chris Rodriguez. They signed for like no money and he's going to play for Liam Cohen for the Jaguars.
66:53He played for him in Kentucky and he's going to play.
66:56And I'm like, this is probably a bad situation.
66:59And yet. There's like four plays Tootin had last year.
67:01I'm like, oh, fuck it. Just get out of the boat.
67:04This guy's so sick. I just need him on my team.
67:08To me, the two Jags are so good. Like he's just like just he's Devon.
67:12The plan is to make him Devon HN. And that's dumb.
67:15You shouldn't chase that. Well, I was going to say the plan is to make him Bucky Irving from the under Liam Cohen.
67:21What if Bucky was way faster? Two years ago.
67:24Yeah. And so to me, I'm just like to me, the calculus on Tootin is less faith in who he is as
67:30a player and more like I want the lead back in Liam Cohen's offense.
67:34Yeah. He's going to score a shit ton of points.
67:37Yeah. Because even you look at what Travis Etienne did last year.
67:40I mean, he was really good for a long stretch of the year.
67:44So I think it might end up being Chris Rodriguez in Rodriguez has a history with Cohen and they did spend quite
67:50a bit of money relative to the expectation on him, but he just broke his foot and he had surgery on his foot.
67:57To me, that is like a bigger red flag than anything Tootin did last year.
68:01So, yeah, I'm. That's true. It wasn't no money.
68:04It was five million a year for Chris Rodriguez, which is not insignificant.
68:07It's also a guy who knew his system, which is like the Giants bringing Devin Singletary.
68:12It's like that's enough to kill it, but it's not like he's really the starter.
68:16That's a few years ago with Brian Dable, but like coaches do that.
68:20I agree. So anyway, Tootin's my siren song. It's a great one.
68:23It's a great one. I just. You talk like truly like a never done it guy around going ahead of like Drake May.
68:30We should all make a pact in the Ringer fantasy draft to all take our respective sirens.
68:35Have to do the siren songs. Is there another guy who's the go home to your who's the Penelope of all this?
68:41Who's the wife you're going home to? That like you're like, I honestly, I need to make it home to this person because for me, it's Derrick Henry.
68:49Yeah. Derrick Henry to me is like the point of this exercise, which is like, you know what?
68:54All these like sirens come and go going to ruin your life.
68:57Risk it all. I'm like, go home to your wife.
69:00Is that Derrick Henry? Like the Odyssey really is the ultimate go home to your wife story.
69:05Sure. Even though he kind of like it's not, it's not in the movie, but Odysseus kind of fucks his way home.
69:11Like he has children on the way back. Yeah.
69:14You know, there are, you know what? There's some, there's some, I mean 17 years, you know?
69:19Sure. Yeah, of course. He's only human, you know?
69:21Yeah. Come on. He doesn't want to, he doesn't want to have to worry about getting, you know, any disease, any like
69:27prostate, you know, he's got to, it's like half go home.
69:30He's got to do what he's got to do.
69:33He gets home. So you don't use it, you lose it.
69:36Yeah. It's like, there's no social media. So Penelope didn't know what he did out there on the open seas, you know?
69:42Yeah. How she, he's like, he's not getting tagged on Facebook.
69:46No. Again, Don Draper didn't have to deal with find my friends.
69:49Way easier back then. You know, it's fine. So much easier.
69:52Odysseus had an apartment in the city. Penelope didn't even know.
69:55Steroid era. He's fucking his way home. He was a little bit of a fuck man.
70:00Yeah. Stick man. Anyway, that's Derek Henry. The people to see, Craig.
70:03You know? I don't know what Derek Henry's been doing in the off seasons, man.
70:07I don't know who, maybe that's, that's what Derek Henry's doing.
70:10Every off season. Wait, so who you, you're taking Henry and not Ori.
70:14And not getting distracted by him. There's like the genties, the old Marion Hamptons.
70:18Yeah. Yeah, you should probably just take Derek Henry.
70:21Derek Henry's going over Marion Hampton. I, can I, do you, you guys can guess if you want, but I looked up
70:27Derek Henry's just average season since 2019. Oh, I bet it's.
70:30I bet it's like. You want to guess? 1,500 yards and 13 touchdowns.
70:3417 touchdowns. Yeah. It is literally Derek Henry's average season in the last seven years is 16 rushing touchdowns and 1,700 rushing yards.
70:40Jesus. That is his average season. I'm averaging a 17 games because the one year he only missed, you only really missed games one time.
70:47And that was like the best season ever on track when he missed half a season.
70:52Derek Henry's average season is 1,700 rushing yards and 16 rushing touchdowns.
70:55What could Omarion Hampton do? I know. And I'm like, he's going behind a Marion Hampton.
71:00Do you know how lucky a Marion Hampton would do to have an average Derek Henry season of 1,700 yards and 16 touchdowns?
71:06Like I just, this dude, all he does is score and run for 90 yards a game.
71:11It's all he does. There's almost no reason, real reason to doubt that he'll do it again.
71:16Correct. And on top of it, his best games are always in the fantasy playoffs because what Derek Henry's specialty is, is
71:22playing this, it sucks so much to tackle him.
71:25And he just feasts on these December cold weather games when the cornerbacks and the linebackers are like, you know what?
71:31We're not even in the playoffs. I don't give a fuck.
71:34We're all human. Like everyone starts quitting a little.
71:36And like, he just runs for 200 yards and these dudes all the time.
71:40He destroyed, he took the will from the backers last year.
71:43Going up against a team with Derek Henry, like going up against Heifetz who had Henry last year was one of the worst experiences of my life.
71:51I was like, can you stop handing him the football?
71:54And anyway, he's like a LeBron-like athlete. He's different.
71:56And he's so funny to me. It's like, if you just had Derek Henry every year, you'd be doing great.
72:02And here I am once again. Just take him.
72:05I didn't draft Derek Henry for a long time in fantasy.
72:08And I only recently started to do it after he turned 30.
72:11And it's been great. And now I'm radicalized. And I'm just going to keep doing it.
72:16And imagine if he could start scoring from the one yard line, how good he'd be.
72:20Oh my God. You know, now he's got a big guy who you want to block him for.
72:25Maybe he'll actually get it. I know. And that's the thing.
72:29Look, he can get Doc for not catching passes, which is why he's not a first rounder.
72:33And like, it's fine. Cause like obviously Bichon and Gibbs and McCaffrey catch passes.
72:37But as a running back, like he's really on kind of the best tear that we've ever seen.
72:42Like he's doing this all and not a rushing era.
72:45It's unbelievable. So yeah, that's my, that's my, that's who I'm going home for, man.
72:49I'm not getting lost among all these like O'Meara and Hampton siren songs.
72:53I'm like, I'm going home with my wife. I like that.
72:56My boring. Sorry. That's I'm phrasing this incorrectly. Going home to your wife who is loyal.
73:01And you're so lucky your wife doesn't listen to this show.
73:04Going home to Penelope, not hanging out with Calypso for God knows how long.
73:08Seven years. How long was it? Yeah. Seven years.
73:10That's a long time. That's Jeremiah. Love. Jeremiah. Love is the Calypso guys.
73:14You know, she's going to, she's going to be there.
73:17Calypso love. And love in the name. Yeah. Lotus flowers, baby.
73:20I don't want to, I don't want to become an Otis, a Lotus eater and hang out with Jeremiah love this year.
73:26I want to go back home to Dallas, go to my wife, Javante.
73:30Williams. I know it's kind of boring. He is, you know, he's like, he's not the exciting prospect that he was like how X amount of years ago.
73:38We all, we were all really excited about him.
73:41Then he got hurt a couple of times and it felt like his career was over, but guess what?
73:46He's back. And he's actually looking really strong going into the season on a good offense.
73:50He has almost no competition. Um, and I just really trust the environment.
73:54So, so, so much more. Um, that is to me, the big thing, obviously I think Jeremiah love is a great player
74:00and I think he will be a great player, but, but going into the season, I mean, the Cardinals were dead last
74:07in rush attempts per game last year. I mean, I think we have to kind of keep that in mind.
74:12This is a team that, uh, Jacoby Brissett tied the completions record with Ben Roethlisberger.
74:17I forget how many it was 50, like 50.
74:19I don't know what it was, but yeah. See, so I think it felt like thousands.
74:24Jeremiah love could be a big part of the passing game.
74:27I think that is certainly a, a possibility, but the way that this team is talking right now, I'm just like, I
74:33don't want to have any part of this. They have one of the hardest schedules in the NFL, uh, Nate Hackett, their
74:39offensive coordinator is already talking about James Connor and, uh, Tyler Algier before he even brings up Jeremiah love who he's, he's,
74:45he like talked about how he's a rookie and blah, blah, blah.
74:49I know he's just probably doing coach peak to try and motivate the guy, but still it annoys me.
74:54I don't want to be a part of that.
74:57I can't be around it. Um, I just think go with, go with the more established guy, the guy who's been there and done it.
75:04And that's Javante Williams. Yeah. Sorry. I tortured the fuck out of that, that metaphor, but yeah.
75:09Good. Jeremiah love. It's very possible that like one to two years from now, he's like the second pick in fantasy, but it's not, I agree.
75:16It's not this year. It's during the off season brain.
75:19When you hear the siren song, you just, you're, you, there are all these like reasons that you read or you hear
75:25of like why you'd might draft Jeremiah love over Javante Williams.
75:28You're like, well, Javante Williams isn't a great receiver.
75:31And like, oh, what about Jane and blue in the Dallas backfield?
75:34Then the season starts and you have to explain it to like someone or your wife or someone.
75:39You're like, yeah, like, well, how is the Cowboys offense good?
75:42Yeah. Like maybe the best in the league because the Cardinals offense good might be the worst in the league.
75:48Like the Cardinals weren't shot. They have the hardest schedule in the NFL.
75:52Cardinals have the hardest schedule and are projected to tie with the Jets for the fewest points.
75:57And then the Cowboys have one of the five easiest schedules and are projected for the five most points.
76:02I mean, it's as simple as that. And I'm like, just don't take running backs on the worst team in the NFL
76:08who are splitting carries with three other running backs.
76:11Yeah. My go home to your wife is Mike Evans, who's now in the Niners.
76:15And, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of sexy options around him.
76:19We just talked about Luther Burden. Zay Flowers is going like 20 spots ahead of Mike Evans.
76:24Mike Evans has had as many touchdowns in one season as Zay Flowers has had in his entire career.
76:29That's so fucking crazy. And I'm just like, yeah, he was banged up last year.
76:34He didn't have a thousand yards for the first time in a decade.
76:37But I'm like, this guy to me is going to, this is the lowest you'll ever be able to get Mike Evans.
76:44And he, I think he's just going to slot right into the Devontae Adams on the Rams role of like the red
76:50zone closer who's going to come in and he's going to have 10 plus touchdowns.
76:54And there's a lot of targets up for grab.
76:57You got Kittle with the Achilles. He's, uh, John Jennings is gone.
77:00Kendrick Bourne is gone and it's going to be Ricky Pearsall and it's going to be Mike Evans.
77:05And Ricky Pearsall has had a lot of trouble staying healthy.
77:08And I'm like in the red zone, I honestly think it's a decent comp of like Zay Flowers and Mark Andrews are
77:15kind of like Mike Evans and Pearsall where Pearsall might get some yards.
77:18He might be racked between the twenties. He'll be great.
77:21When you get inside the 20, same way Lamar's throwing a Mark Andrews in his prime.
77:26I think Mike Evans is still good enough and still has the talent to have just like 12 touchdowns.
77:31I've been meaning to tell you guys this. I was going to do this as a tank purge, but I'm just going to, it's not a purge.
77:39I just, I'm going to tell you right now.
77:41I want with you three to do it. Mike Evans, Christian McCaffrey, both score a touchdown every week parlay every week.
77:47It just happens. Yeah. They will both score one touchdown every week.
77:51If the Niners score three touchdowns a game, right?
77:53Which is reasonable. You're telling me two of those three are not going to be either McCaffrey or Mike Evans.
77:59Who the fuck's scoring then? You know what I mean?
78:02It's going to be like every week. It'll be Mike Evans, Christian McCaffrey, and then like Jake Tonjes.
78:07Like Kyle Uschek. It's going to be some random person you didn't really know was on the team.
78:12And once again, Brock Purdy is going to have 275 yards, four touchdowns, no picks.
78:16And everyone's going to be like, this guy sucks.
78:19And he's the ninth quarterback. Sorry. That's just me.
78:21This guy's ugly. Sneaky little shit. All right. The counter is Mike Evans is old and he's had hamstring injuries on the injury report for five straight years.
78:29And now he's heading into the substation house of horrors.
78:32So that's not great. But if you avoid that, he's Devontae Adams.
78:35Yeah. No, I love this. I think Evans in San Francisco is going to work, period.
78:40I mean, there's so many. It's like Luther Byrd and Jameson Williams and like Travion Henderson and all these guys going around
78:46him that are always like high upside sexy. And I'm like, Mike Evans is probably just getting 12 touchdowns.
78:51It's just a bunch of guys that could in theory around a bunch of guys that never have not done it.
78:57Yeah. Because like I was saying earlier, it's like you want guys who can win your league.
79:02So I'm not saying Mike Evans is safe because I think the 12 touchdowns is still a big upside.
79:08That's like the point here is that he feels boring and old, but his upside to me is just as high as like Jameson Williams.
79:15Like I wouldn't be surprised if Mike Evans is the wide receiver eight this year.
79:19Floor and ceiling. Yeah. Love that. I think that that is a good, it's a good take that he does have the ceiling.
79:25Mike Evans is Anne Hathaway. Rock solid. Honestly, yeah.
79:28Can't go wrong. Tasteful plastic surgery. Really can't like, can't knock it.
79:31Looks great. It's just really the year of Hathaway.
79:34She's in a bunch of Devil Wears Prada, Odyssey.
79:37Oh. She's in some like horror movie coming out in the fall.
79:40That movie she did the Harry Styles fan fiction that became a movie.
79:44That was great too. The Idea of You. The Idea of You.
79:47That was a good movie. I saw that. Yeah, it was all right.
79:51Yeah. It's a really steamy. I don't go fuck myself, Craig.
79:54No, no. I didn't mind it. Very steamy makeout scene between her and the guy.
79:58Yeah. That was like the most passionate I've ever seen two actors kiss each other.
80:02They were like making out. Yeah, they were kind of going out.
80:06Sucking each other's tongues. I was like, wow, these guys are into it right now.
80:10That's Herbert and Madison Beer. She's grabbing his face, just like squeezing him.
80:14Okay. What do the Brits call making out? Snogging?
80:16Snogging is what I was like. I didn't want to say something really bad.
80:20Yeah, it does sound. I feel like I'm not allowed to say that.
80:24It's either a box of cookies or like a slur.
80:27Yeah. You're like, what is that? It's like snogging.
80:29There's no way that's right. That's good. Box of cookies or a slur is great.
80:34The other one, snooker. That's a game. Oh, yeah.
80:36That's like tool. But also sounds kind of like cookies or a slur.
80:40Right. Anyway. Don't email me those. Yeah. I don't want anyone to email me those.
80:44Yeah. We don't want to play cookie or slur.
80:47No. We're not going to do that one. Snogging.
80:49That'll be for the Patreon. You'll have to pay to hear that one.
80:53I'm reading Harry Potter and I'm like, what do you call her?
80:56No. We'll do that at a live show and confiscate everybody's phones before they come.
81:00Yeah. Yonder? Yeah. We'll take the phones. Okay. Things left.
81:03I have a couple emails. We want to do Kingpin movie club and I have to talk to you about this argument.
81:10I have Jackie. All right. Great. I can't wait.
81:12So what order do you want to do that in?
81:15Kingpin at the end? Yeah. Let's do emails and then Kingpin.
81:18Okay. One football related email, which is after a running back episode.
81:21We got a good email from someone whose name I forgot to write down and I'm going to go find it right now.
81:28Let's guess. What do you think his name is?
81:31Mitch. Tom. Carson. Ah. Carson. Uh, C bone. C bone.
81:33First of all, ate breakfast was ham and a big ass ice latte.
81:37Hmm. Ham. Plain ham. It is such a window.
81:40Just a speck of ham. Like I'm imagining not like deli sliced ham.
81:43I'm imagining like a thick cut piece of ham.
81:46Yeah. Christmas ham. I'm going to the Outer Banks this weekend and the best move Jackie's family has.
81:51You know, honey baked hams. Yeah. Honey baked hams.
81:53They, which is both a type of ham and a chain called honey baked.
81:57And they just put a head. They have a fridge ham.
82:01They just stick a ham in the fridge and you just kind of rip it out.
82:05It's great for like a beach vacation because it's like, you want a little ham sandwich, a little breakfast sandwich.
82:11You don't want to make breakfast for everybody. It's a little fridge ham.
82:14A little fridge ham. That sounds like fucking Danny DeVito.
82:17It's always sunny. It's always sunny. Hey, we're going to the beach.
82:21What do you guys want to bring? Well, we have to bring a ham.
82:25Sandman perfect for the beach. We got to bring a ham to the beach.
82:29It's so good. Don't knock it to your tribe.
82:31Malibu, Dave. Hold on. You got your sunscreen? You got your towel?
82:35You got your ham? Yep. Sunscreens. We got the drinks.
82:37We got our ham. Well, wait. We need a cooler for the ham because it weighs 15 pounds.
82:43Dude, sometimes more. Do you have a perfectly circular cooler?
82:45Okay, good. Good. The only thing that can fit in there is one ham.
82:49Beach ham. It's good, man. It's perfect for the beaches of all time.
82:53Beach ham is fucking great. I mean, I don't actually disagree because I like snacking on ham.
82:58Yeah, just reach it, boom, ham. I disagree. I don't think ham is good beach food.
83:02It's the best, man. I want some cold hung of meat that I have to slice.
83:07Ham more than some other meats is kind of wet.
83:10It's ceremonial grade, Craig. Collecting dust and sand. Ceremonial grade ham.
83:13Ham. Ham is such a 1950s ass food. That's a funny word.
83:16It's like right behind roast beef. We're going to do – email us name brand off-brand.
83:21No, we're going to do name brand off-brand and we're going to do players name brand off-brand.
83:26But we're also going to have things that we're rebranding.
83:28So, for example, things we're rebranding. If you have an idea – better ideas for meatloaf.
83:33I think we want to rebrand meatloaf. I thought we already did that.
83:37Turf toe. No, we didn't find it better. We did.
83:39We talked about it. No, we went through it and we picked a name.
83:43Oh, shit. I forget what we called it, but we found a name for it.
83:48Send us then other things that need to be rebranded.
83:51Ham. We called it like beef something or I forget.
83:53Beef cake? I don't know. Anyway, this is not an email.
83:56This is a text from our friend Jackson Bevins at Cigar Thoughts who I asked people to explain boy math and girl
84:03math, which you guys have never thought of or heard of.
84:06And Jackson nailed it, which is, girl math is my wife spending $400 at Target, returning half of it, and then telling me she saved $200.
84:13Boy math is me skipping breakfast, having four whiskeys during golf, crushing a cheeseburger, and then saying my diet's on track because I only had 1,800 calories.
84:21It's honestly great. It's just two different ways to lie.
84:24I love it. Self-deception. Okay. Before we do Kingpin Movie Club, can I please tell you guys about this argument I had with Jackie?
84:31Please. Okay. So Jack and I both agreed that no matter what happened, you guys would agree with Jackie.
84:36So we have mutually agreed on the language that I would present this to you two.
84:40We are not going to show you who was on what side of the argument.
84:45Oh, fuck. So I'm just going to present. So just going to tell you what.
84:49So the argument's about pens. Retractable pens. Yeah. About pens.
84:52You had an argument about pens. Pens. With my wife.
84:55I got an argument with pens. So you know there are pens that you take the cap on and off.
85:00Yeah. Not talking about those. I'm talking about pens.
85:03The clicker. The clickies. Yeah. Clicky pens. Okay. Clicky pens.
85:06So the question is, and we agreed on this language, will a clicky pen dry significantly faster if you leave the tip out?
85:12Oh, that is a good question. Well, are we talking about a ballpoint or are we talking about, like, are we talking
85:18about more of an inky pen or less, or the other kind?
85:22Does it matter? Both. Like an inky, like basically if you're leaving pens out with the, if you're leaving a pen out
85:28and it's clicked open, it's going to dry faster and you'll pick it up and there'll be dead pens around the house.
85:34Is that going to happen? My gut says, in theory, I would say it probably doesn't make a difference, but I get
85:41the logic, I guess, if it's, if it's, if it's out, it's exposed to like air and maybe it's drying faster, but
85:47I would say it's probably doesn't matter. I'm afraid to agree with Heifetz on this.
85:51I'm trying to, I'm trying to reverse psychology. I would say, I would never argue that it would dry faster unclicked.
85:57I feel like if I had to pick, I would say it would dry faster clicked.
86:02Is Jackie listening through the door? Are you there?
86:04She's fucking there. You're there. Come here. Come here right now.
86:07You're listening. She's listening. I see the shadow. She's running away.
86:10She ran away. I hear, I see you. Whatever.
86:13DK, what's your opinion? Well, my initial gut reaction was when you unclick it, it doesn't like seal it.
86:18So I don't think it makes that big of a difference.
86:21Yeah. I mean, it's still touching. It's still open to the air ish.
86:25So out of curiosity, which one of these members of their household do you think are leaving clicked open pens around?
86:31You. All right. I'm going to tell you. I think I inadvertently agreed with Heifetz.
86:35I have been trying to sign like wedding checks or like things, signing whatever around.
86:39And there are these fucking pens all over that are clicked open and they're all dead.
86:44Every pen in my house is dead. And Jackie says it has nothing to do with the fact that the pens are clicked open.
86:51Yeah. And I'm like, of course, the pens clicked open are going to dry faster.
86:55And she says over the course of two years, maybe it'll dry like two weeks faster.
87:00I'm like, no, they'll dry. And so we got into like quite the argument.
87:04I think of common sense, the pens will dry faster.
87:06I think there's logic to that line of thinking.
87:09If I had to pick, if somebody said, hey, they either dry faster inside or outside, I would say, of course, they dry faster outside.
87:16Right. That makes sense. They're exposed more to the air.
87:19They're exposed to air. But it's negligible. It's negligible.
87:21It's negligible. I agree. Tell her we both agreed with her.
87:25They both agreed with you. Yeah. With you. Yes.
87:27She's happy. Whatever. Please email us. Can we do a poll?
87:30Like the pen? Whatever. Did you look it up?
87:33Should we look it up? Like Craig said, it's probably.
87:36You want to look it up? All right. I'm not going to lie.
87:39I did look it up. Oh, what's the answer?
87:42She's super wrong. I checked the pen manufacturers. I didn't tell her this yet.
87:46Yeah. Come over here. I checked the pen manufacturer website and they're like, yeah, if you leave them unclicked, if you want them to last longer.
87:53Like they say that on the site. I mean, look again, that, that makes sense to me.
87:58I don't know how quickly, like, you know, if it's negligible or not, but that makes sense.
88:03I agree with Jackie that it's probably like a two week difference over the course of years.
88:08Yeah. Well, I can't hear what they're saying, but I think it would dry out not significantly faster.
88:13Yeah. Right. Just a little. Like, and I don't care.
88:16I'd rather leave my pens unclicked. The manufacturers disagree with you.
88:19Wrong. They're wrong. Significantly faster is the key. Yeah.
88:21Do we know how long? Thanks guys. The difference.
88:24Thanks, Jackie. He says, do they know the long, the difference?
88:27I, this is of course. Why would they even?
88:29Whatever. You know what? You're right. I'm not going to change.
88:33You're right. Whatever, man. Guess what? I'm going to, I'm going to look it up.
88:37How much quicker do pens dry when they are exposed?
88:40It's not like you're sealing them when you unclick them.
88:43But it's the airflow. It's there. Sure. Which is like why we're evaporating for a little bit of wiggle room.
88:48I think it also varies a lot. Like ballpoint versus felt tip versus gel.
88:52All right. So I went, there's a pen. Jet pens, which is not ballpoint.
88:56There's a whole thing on the jet pen website.
88:59How do I prevent a pen from drying out?
89:01And it says, always cap or retract a pen when not in use.
89:05Ink dries out because it contains solvents that evaporate if exposed to air.
89:09Capping or retracting the pen slows this down. Slows it down.
89:12Yeah. And retractions or retracting mechanisms are not as protective as caps.
89:15Correct. Because they're still touching the air. Every pen in my house is dead.
89:19Here's what I'm reading about ballpoint. The oil-based ink is thick and slow to evaporate.
89:23So leaving one uncapped for hours or even days usually won't kill it.
89:27That said, the tip can still dry out and clog if it's left exposed for weeks.
89:32So if you're leaving them out for weeks exposed like that, Yeah, it's definitely out for weeks.
89:36They never get clicked in. Yeah. Why don't you just click the goddamn pen?
89:40Clicking them left, right, and center. Everything I'm finding is already dead.
89:44This is the dumbest argument. He was walking around the house clicking pens.
89:47Trying to unclick. Just masking. Take the pen. He's like, take the pen.
89:51Take the pen. Click the pen. Click the pen.
89:54Click the pen. I want you to have the pen.
89:57Sell me. Click me this pen. Anyway. Okay. I used all my time.
90:00I feel like both. People kind of lost in this argument.
90:03Jackie was like, should I argue about this at work?
90:06And I was like, should I ask my coworkers?
90:09I was like, please don't yet. I want to make sure.
90:12No. I was like, don't. All right. I'll say my will fact for another time.
90:16But let's do movie club. Yeah. Yeah. So we started, we did, we did, we did Transformers last year, last week.
90:22DK absolutely reviled it. And so this time around, we did a movie called Kingpin 1996, directed by the Farrelly brothers.
90:28This was DK's choice. Heifetz and I have not seen this movie.
90:31No. Had not. We then watched it. Right, right.
90:34I watched it. DK's wanted us to watch it for basically the entire time we've known it.
90:39Well, it's like one of those movies I quote all the time with my friends and it was important for my generation.
90:45I'm very excited to hear how you guys, or what you thought of the movie.
90:49I'm a little worried my hatred of the Transformers painted your picture a little bit, but we'll see.
90:54I went in with a complete open mind that you're entitled to your own opinion.
90:59I mean, I watched 80s, 90s comedies all the time.
91:01If it's good, it's good. I thought this movie was terrible.
91:05Oh, really? Yeah. Terrible? Terrible. I thought it was a dog shit movie.
91:08Dog shit. He thought it was... I didn't even...
91:11I didn't stoop to say dog shit about Transformers, even though that's what it was.
91:15Oh, no. You were really mean about Transformers. I just thought, like...
91:18That's true. This came out the same year as Happy Gilmore.
91:22Like, I thought Happy Gilmore is, like, 10 times more in this movie.
91:25Okay. Well, we're not comparing it to Happy Gilmore, which is on the fucking Mount Rushmore.
91:30I thought Bill Murray was the only redeeming part of the movie, and I thought Bill Murray was really funny, and I thought he had some great lines.
91:38Like, I wrote a couple down. He says, like...
91:40He says, it's a small world when you have unbelievable tits, is just an iconic quote.
91:45Or when he orders cocktails, he's like... He orders some gin cocktail, and he's like, keep them coming, honey.
91:50I have a long drive later, which is just amazing.
91:53Dude, I will say, the one Dinko quotes all the time is so funny.
91:57He's like, is this legal? I don't know. Sure is fun, though.
92:00Fun, though, isn't it? I don't know. I just thought the rest of it, like, a lot of the jokes were really cheesy and just felt fine.
92:08Okay. All right. Hi, Fitz. Lay it on me.
92:11I got to tell you, I'm shocked. I thought Craig kind of, like, had a soft spot in his heart for 80s and 90s movies.
92:18I'm shocked as well. I tried harder to like it because I like you, and I know this is near and dear to your heart.
92:25And I... Man, Movie Club is a fucking disaster.
92:27I kind of... To be honest... This is going horrible.
92:30Like... I'm afraid to watch fucking... What's the next one again?
92:33What is it called? Remember the Titans. If you don't like Remember the Titans, I'm gonna just kill you.
92:39I think I... I'm just not gonna watch it.
92:41I'm gonna come to Seattle and kill you. I think we're gonna stop this right now.
92:46Dude, this is like I did a book club with my friends for a few...
92:50It's unfathomable to me that you don't like Kingpin, that you thought it was dog shit.
92:55Wait, Hyphens doesn't even say what he thought. Unfathomable.
92:57I don't even want to hear what Hyphens has to say.
93:00I know he hated it. No, I didn't hate it like Craig.
93:04I just kind of had resolved... I didn't love it, and I had resolved to keep my thoughts to myself because I
93:10thought Craig was gonna like it, and I didn't want to be mean because I know you like this movie a lot,
93:16and I didn't want to hurt your feelings. But all I'll say is I did rent it on a Saturday night weeks ago, and I honestly just like...
93:24I just... It's not the... The problem is not that I fell asleep in the middle of it.
93:29The problem is that when I woke up, I didn't think about it again for like weeks.
93:34God. At least it was just two and a half hours.
93:37I just didn't... It felt longer than the Odyssey to me.
93:40Craig's being mean though. I think if I would have loved Transformers, you guys would have loved this movie.
93:46No, I... You're just doing this to be mean.
93:48I swear I'm not. Like, I watch a million random 80s movies.
93:52Sometimes I think they're great and underrated. Sometimes I think...
93:54I told Bill to his face. I thought that the National Lampoon Vacation, I don't think is that funny, and I don't
94:01think it's aged that well, even though that's like an iconic movie.
94:04Like I'm... Right. And then there's random shit that I thought was really great.
94:08I don't know. Look, it's not the worst movie ever made, obviously.
94:11I just thought like... Compared to like other... Can we put that in quote card and Instagram?
94:16It's not the worst movie ever made, obviously. Just compared to like all the other great 90s comedies, like I don't really think it's that close to those.
94:24Dude, Bill Murray was on a fucking heater the whole movie, though.
94:28I feel like Bill Murray alone is good enough.
94:30But he's not in it very much. He's not in the movie that much, which shocked me.
94:35He has like... He has like the last 20.
94:37He has like 40 of the greatest lines of all time, I think.
94:41I agree. It's like... He's like Anthony Hopkins. He's like...
94:44You know what I mean? Yeah. I agree, though.
94:47Bill Murray's awesome in it. There was more lines that...
94:49Like his whole Make-A-Wish commercial shit is so funny.
94:52The United fun. It's so funny. But how many seconds was Hopkins on...
94:56Sometimes Big Earth is here even before I wake up.
94:58Yeah. It's like Silence of the Lambs. He has like eight minutes of runtime or whatever it was.
95:04Yeah. I'm like... It was... There was a... I spent a lot more time in the backstory than I realized.
95:09And I don't know. Maybe I was worried the whole time I just have ADHD or something.
95:14And it's like, you know, I'm just like the pacing of movies.
95:17How long is this movie? I need YouTubers to make my movies.
95:21And I'm like... There was... Everything's so long. When I were in 54.
95:24It's not short. And I was worried that it was...
95:27I don't know. I feel... I wanted to love it for you.
95:31And I had resolved to quiet... I was going to keep it to myself.
95:35I think just like Woody and Randy Quaid and the girl on the road...
95:39I was just like... It just... It felt very like...
95:41One note the whole time. Like, I get it.
95:44I get these jokes. I don't know. They were all very like...
95:47I just felt kind of like... You know. Pretty genuinely crushed.
95:51Right. I gave it a two out of five stars on Letterboxd.
95:54I have to tell you this. I think if DK'd you like Transformers, this moment would not be happening.
95:59No. No. I think Craig's being predictive. I'm not.
96:02I promise I'm not. There's like no way that Craig would be crushing your favorite movie if you had not...
96:08Also, I feel like DK gave Transformers like a 0.5 stars out of five and actually...
96:12Because of Bernie Mac. Yeah. DK hated Transformers way more than we hated this movie.
96:16Yeah. It's true. It's true. You just never would have used the word dog shit.
96:21But in my defense, this movie is so much better than...
96:24To be honest, I used dog shit because Austin texted it, this movie was dog shit and then that was in my brain.
96:30Oh, all right. Well, I think we should just end movie club right now.
96:34No, you have to watch Remember the Titans. I'm not going to watch Remember the Titans.
96:39It's not going well. I'm going to fucking hate it.
96:42There is... There's no... If you don't like that movie, one, I want you to tell us.
96:46But two, I'll kill you. You said you're going to...
96:49Can I tell you something, DK? It's not even that.
96:52My mom would never forgive you if you didn't like Remember the Titans.
96:56My mom loves you and like... If you didn't like Remember the Titans...
96:59The stakes are too high. I just... I don't think we can watch it.
97:03I think we got to give up. I think Skippy...
97:06Like, come on. My wife Skippy, her inside joke is every time something gets happened, she's like, let's give up.
97:12I think we actually should just give up. Let's give up.
97:15The boob fight? Come on. That was not great.
97:18That's not the greatest spot. That's not... You know...
97:20That's fine. The Amish thing was funny for me.
97:23I can't believe you didn't like Woody. He was great.
97:26Woody's good. I don't know, man. I question everything now.
97:28There's a lot of good comedies out there. It's tough to make it into the pantheon.
97:33I'm shocked Craig hated it. I have to say, I'm shocked Craig hated it, and I'm shocked by this.
97:38Dog shit. I know. You're really sticking to that.
97:41I wish I didn't say that. I didn't love it.
97:44It's one of those things I'm just... It's going to bounce around my brain for the rest of my life, Craig.
97:50I'm like, Jesus. It's going to bounce around my brain.
97:52Did I like the movie? Not really. I'm never going to get over it.
97:56It's not a fucking disaster, but no, I didn't love it.
98:00Sorry. It's not the worst movie ever made, he keeps saying.
98:03Did I like it? Nah. I feel like I'm just a little bit more blunt with my language, and Heifetz felt the same way, to be honest.
98:10I had a good time. It's fine. I actually...
98:13He's fucking lying. Kingpin got 50... He fell asleep!
98:15He got 53% on Rotten Tomatoes, which is way worse than I thought.
98:19I had to rent it again! Which made me feel so dumb to rent it twice.
98:24I don't know. Look, here, I'll put it this way.
98:26We talked about this before, or maybe it was after I hated Transformers.
98:30It's like, the era that you watch the movie, the moment you watch movie in is very important.
98:35This was an important movie for me. The fact that Craig said Woody Harrelson and Randy Quag and that lady went...
98:41Vanessa Angel was very important to me as a young man.
98:44I would have recast her in a second, but yeah.
98:47Oh, God. Craig, get the fuck out of here.
98:50You have terrible taste. Do I? I mean, I don't want to be the one to tell her, but with those hips,
98:56she could only have like seven or eight kids.
98:59I don't know. To me, this was like... That was funny.
99:02That was the fun... I think Randy Quaid was the best part of the movie.
99:06Dude, Bill Murray, when he gets asked about this pending paternity suit, he's like, ah, she's a stone-faced liar.
99:11Let's not even talk about that. I pulled out of her really early on that one.
99:16I don't know. Yeah, Murray's great. Bill Murray is one of the most quotable characters in any movie I've ever seen.
99:22I think I quote him about as much as I quote Happy Gilmore, which is why I wanted you guys to watch this.
99:28But anyway, I'm devastated. I actually feel bad. I actually feel bad.
99:32At least... No, no, no. Hey, I actually will take away from this conversation.
99:36I'll take a positive note. The fact that you like Bill Murray in this is enough for me.
99:41I will say, you only quote Bill Murray from this for the most part.
99:45Well, because he's throwing fucking gas. And by the way, almost all of his stuff is improvised.
99:50They needed to find a way for him to be in the whole movie.
99:54I sent you guys this clip the other day.
99:56When he's in the diner at the beginning and he says hey to some woman in the back and then she's like, hey.
100:03And he's like, not you. He's like, hey. He is.
100:05The problem is... He's like, he improvised all this stuff.
100:08The problem is... Yeah. If I showed you my notes, the top thing is Murray is the funniest part of this movie.
100:14Then I have like three quotes. The problem is Craig's whole thing is what movies should be...
100:19Comedy should be 90 minutes. I was unprepared for a 90 minute stretch without Bill Murray.
100:24Yeah. I just kind of kept waiting and I was...
100:27I feel horrible. I don't like... I feel bad.
100:29It's fine. It's fine. I'll survive. I'll survive. It's funny because truly my generation, at least people that I talk to the most, love this movie.
100:37It's just one of those ones. It's a good example though.
100:40Yeah. Here's the thing. Even Happy Kilmore. I don't know.
100:43If we could find a millennial... I'm just saying though.
100:45If we could find a... We just watched it now.
100:48But we valorized that movie. Yeah. I don't know if anybody who saw that would be like amazing comedy.
100:54Yeah. If you had never seen it and then you watched it for the first...
100:58Totally. If you'd never seen an Adam Sandler movie and then you watched it at 31, I don't know if...
101:04You have to have seen Adam Sandler when your brain was not formed and then it'd be baked into your brain.
101:09And I don't know if some of these comedies are funny.
101:13If you watch it for the first time at 40, if you'd be like, oh, he's talking to Billy Mattis.
101:18Whoa, Mr. Penguin. I'm like, I might find Mr.
101:21Penguin and Billy Mattis a little funnier than someone who's never seen it.
101:24I totally agree. I think that's a great point.
101:27This movie... Yeah. It just felt like kind of stale, I don't know, predictable comedy.
101:31One of the greatest bowling movies of all times, guys.
101:34Like, dude, we just did... On the Rewatchables a couple of weeks ago, we did a movie called She's the One.
101:40It was an Ed Burns movie. I thought it was terrible.
101:43And I told the three of them that. And Wesley Morris agreed with me and Sean and Bill were like, you're wrong.
101:49This movie's great. And I thought it was genuinely terrible.
101:52Yeah. Ed Burns, not the Wire guy, right? No.
101:55I don't think so. I don't think he was.
101:57Was Ed Burns in The Wire? He wrote The Wire.
102:00No. With David Simon. No, that's not the same Ed Burns.
102:03Okay. Ed Burns is the... He was in... He was in Saving Private Ryan.
102:07But he wrote and starred in a lot of...
102:10Saving Private Ryan? Yeah. Yeah, he's like... Spoiler alert.
102:12He's like the one guy who survived. But he's known for making a lot of...
102:17Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Rom-com movies in the 90s that he would kind of write, direct, and star in.
102:22Like The Brothers McMullen and She's the One. Okay.
102:25I... The photo of him with the beard caught me off guard.
102:28But now, yeah, I know this. Oh, yeah. I just watched 27 Dresses the other day, actually.
102:33Yeah, 27 Dresses. But, yeah, I didn't love that movie.
102:36It's all about when you see it. That one didn't escape me.
102:39I'm doing a lot of rom-coms with Jackie because I'm catching up on my rom-coms.
102:44And I watched 27 Dresses. I was like, this is not as good.
102:47My favorite rom-com from the whole rom-com re-education is...
102:50I still think The Holiday, unbelievable. Yeah, Holiday's great.
102:52And Love Actually is overrated to me. But I think The Holiday is S tier.
102:57I agree. Holiday's wonderful. My favorite rom-com is probably When Harry Met Sally still.
103:01I think that's the best one ever made. I heard, like, the phrase, I'll have what she's having, like, 20 years before I saw the scene, probably.
103:08I feel like I heard I'll have what she's having when I was six.
103:12It still hits. Yeah. Like, I feel like I just heard it as, like, a family guy quote, but I didn't get it.
103:19Reiner's mom. That's who said that. Oh. Oh, wow.
103:21DK, have you seen When Harry Met Sally? I have.
103:24I also like it a lot. I mean, like, I remember Everything Everywhere All at Once.
103:29The movie that won Best Picture, like, three years ago.
103:31Yeah. I saw that movie right when it came out, knew nothing about it, had, like, a religious experience watching it.
103:37I thought it was so good and moving and great.
103:40Then it got so hyped, it got, like, 12 Oscar nominations, and then everybody else was like, what the fuck is this movie?
103:47My parents couldn't even get through it. They turned it off.
103:50I'm pretty sure Bill hated it. Like, I was like, holy shit.
103:53Am I wrong? No, no, no. It's just hype matters.
103:56I have been waiting. Yes, but that movie, I've been waiting to talk to you about this, Craig.
104:01So Jack and I watched that right after the Oscars won everything.
104:05I told Jackie it was Craig City. It was his favorite movie of the year and in a couple years.
104:10Jack and I watched it with all the hype.
104:13We literally were like, all the Oscars, Craig's favorite movie.
104:16And Jack and I had the same thing. We were blown away by Everything Everywhere All at Once.
104:21We were blown away. And Jackie's parents had the same thing your parents did, which was they couldn't finish the movie.
104:27And I think that movie, I don't know if there's a word for it, and I still barely understand what the word
104:33cinematography even means, but something about the editing style of that movie, there is a generational cutoff of like whether you grew
104:39up scrolling or not, because that movie, there's something that people over under like 45, people over 45 cannot get that movie.
104:45It's like visually illegible because of the way it's kind of chopped together.
104:49Visually illegible. And also there's like, like the combination also, I feel like the idea of a multiverse is just like this
104:55plot device that now just everyone under 30 gets and people over 50 are still kind of like, what?
105:01And the combination of the two, but it's so, I do think people over a certain age couldn't watch that movie, but
105:07I don't know if there, we have a language for that yet, but there's this editing style.
105:12And it's not to be like TikTok. Like we didn't grow up with TikTok, but I don't know.
105:17It's fascinating. Also like DK, I don't know what's it like.
105:20I love the comedy accepted. If you've never seen that, you probably think that sucks.
105:24Oh, I like that movie. That's awesome. You know what I mean?
105:28Like somebody could watch that and be like, this is, this is not good, but to ask me about my wiener.
105:34These are jokes that you love. At this point, that's the only one.
105:37Craig's like, you know what? This is, I love the one.
105:40This comedy is too smart. I need something. Someone to say, ask me about college is spelled shit.
105:46Get it? South Harmon Institute of Technology. Come on.
105:48The shit heads. Shit sandwiches. I can't believe he shit on DK's favorite movie.
105:52It's not my favorite movie. Heifetz is distancing himself from me.
105:55Let's notice this in real time. Heifetz did not like his movie and is now being like, can't believe Craig didn't like it.
106:02Heifetz fell asleep in the movie. Yeah, no, I didn't like it either.
106:05But I, well, let me, let me rephrase. I liked it, but like in a way that I just would, like, I, would you recommend it to somebody?
106:13No. Yeah, that's exactly. I liked it. What is, how many stars is that?
106:17I liked it, but then I wouldn't tell someone else to do it.
106:21Two. Is that three? I wouldn't tell someone else to do it.
106:24I wouldn't subject them to this. I wasn't upset while I was doing it, but I, yeah, I was not upset, but
106:31I was just like, oh, that's good. This is fine.
106:33All right. I want to be clear though. You thought Transformers is like the worst movie ever made.
106:39I couldn't wait for you. Dude, if you watch it as an adult, it's terrible.
106:43I've been, all right, you know what? While I'm there, Transformers does suck.
106:47You have to be 12. What are you talking about?
106:49I want to pull back the curtain just a little bit because this actually made me feel better.
106:54After the, after the show, I texted the guys.
106:57I was like, I felt bad. Like I, I offended you.
107:00And maybe I went too hard. And then Heifetz goes, DK, it's a Michael Bay movie about a toy.
107:06And I was like, okay, I feel better. You're allowed to not like the Michael Bay movie about a fucking toy.
107:11You came in so hot. I thought you were going to be like, I mean, not really for me.
107:17I guess I get it. You were like, this movie fucking sucks.
107:20It's insane. It is a terrible movie. And it's, if you have to go for Megan Fox and just like the big
107:26robots fight, and you're like, I like cars. I kind of think that is based though.
107:31It's like, obviously, yeah, not an intellectually stimulating movie.
107:34At least it's like, I don't know. It's like kind of fun CGI.
107:37There's like stars in it. I don't know. Yeah.
107:40It's, it's true that like in the fifties, they'd be like, what is this?
107:44But yeah, it's also, I think, it's way too long.
107:47There's also not enough. It's like transformers fighting. I agree.
107:49Oh, DK, this is, it's true. It's true. They edge you with the fucking story.
107:54And you said that your favorite part was the story of Shia and Megan Fox.
107:58Right. It was cute. A meet cute. Yeah. Dad was a gearhead.
108:01A grease monkey. My dad was a real grease monkey.
108:04Oh my God. I, yeah. It's funny. That's not a movie I revisit.
108:08I did, I do. I did not like transformers and I don't generally like, don't love the Michael Bay style where it's like the camera never stops moving.
108:16And it's just like, ah, it's like fucking, you know, it's like what you guys are.
108:20Spiral staircase. Yeah. Will Smith. Yeah. But I really did like Armageddon.
108:24I really did like the rock. Yeah. I liked a few of his.
108:27Those are great. Those are much better movies than bad boys.
108:31Those are all better movies than transformers. Yeah, for sure.
108:33I don't think that we have to. Well, how many stars did you give transformers?
108:38Did you, did you say a half star? I gave a half star for Bernie Mac.
108:42So I give your movie two and you give ours a half and we're the bad guys.
108:47I didn't say you're the bad guy. You know, worse.
108:50He's not bad. Craig, he's disappointed. He said he's crushed.
108:53That summer movie club has gotten off to about as bad of a start as you can imagine.
108:58It's not like Kingpin is some legendary successful movie.
109:00I know. It's the Farrelly brothers and I grew up loving it.
109:04And, and like, not to be rude, but it was a bomb.
109:07Like, it didn't do well. Like, I don't know what you want from us.
109:11Is that true? I didn't even know that. It cost 25 million and made 30.
109:15Like, that's a bomb. I didn't know that. All right.
109:18I was too busy laughing about funny things that happened in the movie.
109:22I was curious though, because they didn't write it.
109:24But they directed it and they often write their stuff.
109:27So I found that to be interesting. Interesting. Okay.
109:30Um, cause like something about Mary. Great. Yeah. They wrote that.
109:33There's also Randy Quaid. Like, yeah, there was some of the Farrelly brothers movies just didn't like, like stuff on you.
109:39It wasn't very good. Dumb and dumber. They wrote dumb and dumber.
109:42I almost, and like, if they, if they write it, I'm in, but maybe they just saw the script and thought they could make it work.
109:50But dumb and dumber and something about Mary, them writing those is like incredible.
109:54Did you, Oh, Moses Jones. Did you see Hall Pass?
109:56Great stuff. Oh yeah. I have seen Hall Pass.
109:59I think I only saw it once when it came out.
110:02Was that written? Wait, they produced The Ringer. The Farrelly.
110:05Oh really? They produced The Ringer. Not to be confused with the website.
110:09The, no, the Johnny Knoxville movie. Never seen that.
110:11That's a great bit. You've never seen The Ringer?
110:14No. I have seen it. Oh yeah. Hall Pass, Craig, it was written or produced and directed by the Farrelly brothers and co-written by them with Pete Jones.
110:22Ah. And I also think it's kind of an underrated comedy.
110:25Not, not on my, not on my top list or anything like that.
110:28I won't force you guys to watch it, but I thought it was pretty funny.
110:33Yeah. Yeah. I remember liking it when I saw it.
110:36Weigh in on this. If you want to weigh in on this, we have the discord.
110:40DK finally figured out how to join the discord.
110:43It's taken six months, but Danny Kelly figured out how to join the discord.
110:47So the link to join the discord is in the episode description and you can join.
110:51And if you want to weigh in on a Kingpin or transformers, you can join our discord, which Danny Kelly is now a member of.
110:58And everyone freaked out. DK, there was a channel that they were going to make, they called DK look here in case
111:04you ever got in and were overstimulated. Oh, that's funny.
111:07Turn around and run. So everything that you needed to see was just one channel.
111:12Just for you. It's like, here, let me hold your hand.
111:15Like the Jerry Jones vault, which is for Jerry.
111:17I'm sorry. I hurt you. It's okay. It's okay.
111:20Are we, should we talk about the odyssey? Oh yeah.
111:23Forgot we're going to do that. We all liked it, right?
111:26Yeah. That was great. Summer movie club is back.
111:28It's texted me. I think it was a little more lukewarm on it.
111:32Do you, are you willing to say that on air?
111:35This is the hype thing, but my, it's my fault.
111:38Not Christopher Nolan's. I truly walked in there wanting the odyssey to be my favorite and the greatest movie I've ever seen in my entire life.
111:45And I didn't consciously, but I very much subconsciously was hoping that this will be the greatest movie I've ever seen in my entire life.
111:52And I didn't feel that the odyssey was literally the number one best movie ever made.
111:57And now I feel like I made myself disappointed.
111:59So you're saying I want to see it again.
112:02It was the second best movie you've ever seen.
112:04And that was a disappointment. I think the truth is I was too familiar with the story and I'd refreshed myself on it before.
112:11And I realized only later that one of the cool things about seeing Christopher Nolan movie is they're original and you have
112:17no idea what the fuck they're about. I think it's hard to remember, but like you didn't know what inception was about.
112:24There's a heist and a dream. That was kind of all you knew going in.
112:28Like didn't really have a clue what interstellar was about.
112:31Matthew McConaughey is a pilot. No one knew what it was about.
112:34You go in totally raw, totally original story, no basis.
112:37And I think that it was the first, even Batman, when I saw the dark night, I was never seen the other Joker movies.
112:44I was like 13. I didn't have anything to compare with like Batman.
112:47And honestly, with the, but he did Dunkirk and Oppenheimer, you know how those are going to end.
112:52Yeah. But it was more like, how's he going?
112:55Yeah, I agree. There's more, you know how the odyssey ends.
112:58You technically don't know like how he's going to end Dunkirk or how he's going to end Oppenheimer.
113:03I know the big sweeping Dunkirk, they're on an Island.
113:06And then we won world war two. I don't know what happens to it would have been funny if he completely changed the story of odyssey.
113:13Well, that's the thing. The odyssey I'm realizing, I made the mistake.
113:17Like Tarantino killing Hitler. Yeah. Exactly. Honestly, yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
113:21Where, but like the odyssey, I made the mistake of being like, oh, well, you know, it's such an old story.
113:27I know the story. And I brushed up on it.
113:30And then I just gave, I just knew the story really well.
113:33And I went in and I just had expectations.
113:36And I just kind of wish I had, I, and what I learned was I didn't know nearly as much of the
113:42story as I did, as I thought I did until I brushed up on it.
113:46And then I watched it and I had all these expectations.
113:49Giant guys were. That's the only thing I didn't know.
113:52I was like, I don't, I have no memory of these.
113:55But I had expectations and I, and so, but no, it's obviously, I'm also, I'm not saying it like it was a spectacle.
114:02I'm like, I'm not trying to be a yummy yucker.
114:04It was very cool. And like every, then like you see it.
114:08And then the algorithm learns that you saw it.
114:10And then you get like every video that's ever been made about Matt Damon, the six month press tour all gets fed to you in like three days.
114:18And like, it's cool. And everything you learn about it, like, I want to see it again.
114:23So I had a good time to be clear.
114:26It's my, I, my expectations were too high. Seven out of 10 for you.
114:30For sure. Chris, Chris for the Odyssey. I'd give it an eight.
114:33I wanted it. I wanted a 10.0. I thought it would be the 10.0.
114:37Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, I think on spectacle alone, it's like, I started at a nine.
114:42Like, I think just based on like watching the movie and how it was made in the raw spectacle of like, holy fuck, this is crazy.
114:49Like just put it at a nine for me.
114:52So yeah, I'd give the movie like a nine point, whatever.
114:55I thought it was, I thought it was like a fantastic movie theater experience.
114:59Like as good as it can get. It is like true summer blockbuster spectacle.
115:03Is it your favorite Nolan movie? Probably not. I probably want to watch it again, but no, no one is so good.
115:09I mean, I also think like the way that we talk about are your relationship to movies and when you saw them,
115:15like I have just a real soft spot for like inception and interstellar, but I think Dunkirk is like fantastic.
115:21I think the dark night is fucking fantastic. Yeah.
115:24I mean, I like Oppenheimer, so it's kind of hard to say.
115:27Like, I almost just think like it's in like the tier of movie that Christopher Nolan makes that I loved.
115:33Like I would put it in there as like another one that he, I got to get to two thumbs up for me.
115:39Yeah. That's, I think that's where I landed as well.
115:42I really liked it. I think if I was really ranking all the Nolan movies, I would put Dunkirk and the two
115:48dark night movies probably in front in terms of just like the way that I came out of the movie being like, holy shit, that was awesome.
115:56And then Oppenheimer was very different, but also very good.
115:59I would probably put, I would probably rather rewatch the odyssey than Oppenheimer.
116:02Yeah, I agree with that. But yeah, I liked it.
116:05I thought it was great. I thought it was like Craig said, it was extremely impressive.
116:10Like experience, like everything is so big and, and grandiose and everything.
116:13It, it, it's just, he's, no one's really doing it like him.
116:17I guess maybe, uh, Denny, uh, Villanoia. How do you say his last name?
116:21Villanoia. Denis Villeneuve. Villeneuve. Um, those, those two directors to me, it's like when you're going to those movies, it's like, whoa, everything is bigger, larger than life.
116:28It's so, uh, heavy or whatever. I don't know.
116:31My only note on the movies, I thought it was, and this is funny coming from me, like it's two hours and 50 minutes.
116:38I thought it was like giant cameras that I didn't get to watch it on.
116:42Can't go for that long. And I'm like, well, my, my projectors wouldn't have burned out.
116:47and that's the thing I, I feel like, and it's weird because to me, I swear to God, if I get fucking
116:53canceled for not, for not having the greatest time ever at the odyssey, when I'm Christopher Nolan's my favorite director and I love Greek mythology.
117:00Yeah. Nolan's my favorite director. And I've like, I, the dark nights, my favorite movie.
117:04I, I, I'm just saying, I feel like my actual experience was we walked out and it was kind of like the Kingpin thing.
117:11Where I kind of was like waiting. I was like, I actually wanted more and I had a good time, but I
117:17thought I'd have like the greatest movie experience ever.
117:20And I actually went with friends and like for the first time in forever, went to movie with like six people, which
117:26I feel like I only go to movies with Jackie or I don't know.
117:30I don't go to movies like more than one car load of people anymore.
117:34There's an element of this, this restaurant had an extremely long line to it.
117:38And it was supposed to be the best thing that you've ever seen.
117:42And it was like just really, really good. Yeah.
117:44I just walked in like what's playing today, but I waited.
117:47I just had this in my calendar more than a year.
117:50So I walk in, but I, and like the action was everyone kind of was, everyone in my group was, was underwhelmed
117:57and no one wanted to say it because no one wanted to, to pop the balloon for anyone else.
118:02So everyone just kept passing. What'd you think? And everyone passed the ball twice.
118:06And my brother was like, you know what? Fine.
118:09I'll say it. I didn't think, I didn't like as much as I thought I would.
118:13And then I, I don't know. And I was like, kind of like, I almost had to grab, I had convinced myself
118:19I would love it so much that I almost took an hour to convince, me like come down.
118:24I really liked the memes that are coming out of the movie though.
118:28I will say they're quite enjoyable. Somebody get these beggars out of here.
118:32He was great. Somebody get these beggars out of here.
118:35And he's like smiling. He's like, am I right?
118:37Somebody get these beggars out of here. I like the way Chris Nolan said he was the only one who asked to
118:43read the script before he said he was in.
118:46Oh my God. But yeah, dude, I feel like there were some scenes like the Hydra scene, which is like the giant tentacle thing.
118:53Like that was like 40 seconds. I didn't take very long.
118:56Yeah. I'm like, I want a little, this is my problem is I know that it's not the Hydra, it's Scylla, but
119:02I think that ruined the movie for me. Wow.
119:05So the movie was ruined. I really, really, really, really liked it, but I feel like that's like an aggressive statement to people.
119:11I really, I mean, like this is so cliche.
119:14This is so basic bitch of me, but I like really liked the Trojan horse scenes.
119:18Oh, fucking sick. They're so cool. Yeah. It was cool.
119:21Yeah. You should go see though. My favorite movie of the year by far is the invite.
119:26You should go. Is that a horror movie? I will watch that.
119:29No, it's a comedy with that. Olivia Wilde directed with Olivia Wilde.
119:33There's only four people in the movie, Olivia Wilde, Seth Rogen, Edward Norton and Penelope Cruz.
119:37And it is fantastic. I thought it was like one of my favorite movies I've seen of the decade.
119:43Okay. Ooh. Which I'm now probably, this is the problem though.
119:46Now you're going to go in expecting too much, but.
119:49She did a book smart too, right? You like it more than book smart.
119:53Yeah, I do. I liked book smart, but yeah, this is by far, I think the best movie she's made.
119:58Cool. All right. Thank you, DK. Thank you, Craig.
120:01Thank you to Christopher Nolan for making a really, really, really, really good movie.
120:05Thank you to the Farrelly brothers for trying your best.
120:08Email us at ringer fantasy football at gmail.com. I want people, I want to know about the pens.
120:13I want to know if anyone felt like I did about the odyssey, but it's a shame to say it.
120:18I'll redact your name or just make fun of me.
120:21If you want, I don't know. People are going to hate me for it.
120:25If you want to yell at Craig about Kingpin, go ahead.
120:28I think a lot of people want to yell at Craig about Kingpin.
120:32Tell him. Yeah. Email us actual fantasy questions too.
120:35And yeah, we're going to have Mina Kimes on for hot quarterbacks next week.
120:39Ooh, top four reveal. And then yeah. Ring your fantasy football draft is coming up too.
120:43Yeah. And stick with us for the season. Okay.
120:46Thank you. Nikhil. Thank you. Cam. Thank you. Abu.
120:48Thank you, Carlos. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you for listening.
120:51Thank you, Lord. Lord. All right. This is the last episode of a millennial bangers.
120:55We had to get Mr. Worldwide involved. Pitbull himself.
120:58Him and Neo did a lot of good things.
121:00The two of them. And so I'm going to shout out, give me everything.
121:042011. I'm going to get to the end of the year.
121:07An absolute ripper. Ludacris. Oh, sorry. Ludacris. Pitbull. Just the fucking goat.
121:11Just the king of we're having fun. And all we're doing here is having fun.
121:15The song begins with, he has the most unintelligible lyrics.
121:18By the way, this is the song that goes, give me everything tonight.
121:22Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh God. It's like, excuse me.
121:25I might drink a little more than I should tonight.
121:28And it's like, grab somebody, tell them, hey. Oh, I like, yeah, this is a great song.
121:32The song. I know every word, I have no idea what the title of the song is.
121:37Pitbull's lyrics are so fucking weird, dude. They make no sense.
121:40This is how he starts the song. Me not working hard.
121:43Yeah, right. Picture that with a Kodak or better yet, go to Times Square, take a picture of me with a Kodak.
121:50What? What is it? It's like so fake clever.
121:52He's like, yeah, I just know that. Craig, he rhymed Kodak with Kodak.
121:56Yeah. He has another one where he came out of, he came out of a chorus and he's like, oh yeah, he goes, reach for the stars.
122:04And if you don't grab them, at least you'll fall on top of the world.
122:08Think about it. Cause if you slip, I'm going to fall on top of your girl.
122:12Like what? Like, he like comments in the song, like that was good.
122:16Yeah. Dude, his legs, my, my favorite people song is hotel room service because it's the idea of like, he's like, we're at the hotel motel holiday in.
122:24It's like the whole, and I'm like the idea of like trying to get a threesome and be like, Hey babe, I'm at the holiday in.
122:31Well, he didn't make up that lyric. That's from way back.
122:34You know, what's funny though about that? What? What the hotel motel holiday in thing is like, it's from like, yeah, he didn't invent that.
122:42We at the hotel. Well, yeah, I have no idea what that's referencing.
122:45Uh, I don't know either, but I know it's old.
122:48Uh, I'm trying to remember. I can't remember the song by it's rappers delight.
122:52Oh yeah. From sugar hill. Rappers delight has hotel.
122:55No way. Yeah. So anyway, Oh yeah. The source holiday in.
122:58If your girl starts acting up, then you take her friend.
123:01Wow. Went to the source text there, didn't you?
123:03Yeah. But to your point, I think it's about him saying like singing about maybe at the motel.
123:08I was debating doing give me everything, which I chose and time of our lives, which is also Pitbull and Neo.
123:14And that's the song that goes, I knew my rent was going to be due about a week ago.
123:20I work my ass off. I still can't pay it though.
123:23And that's when it goes, Ooh, I want the time of my life.
123:27Whatever. Um, my voice is cracking cause I lost it this weekend, but it's Pitbull and Neo singing about how they can't pay their rent.
123:34Yeah. That's the song. Pitbull's can't pay us rent.
123:36It's relatable. He's working hard. He's working hard. He still can't pay it.
123:40But then ultimately it's like you spend your last 20 bucks on the club, which goes back to this entire era, which
123:46is just like, we're going to be on a dance floor.
123:49We're going to have a blast. I need you to give me everything.
123:53We're going to have a blast. We're going to have a blast.
123:56You guys. I'm a drink a lot and I'm a dance.
124:00And that's going to get us through the 2010s.
124:0220 cents. That whole decade. I can barely remember that decade.
124:05We were so young. Pitbull did. What a legend.
124:08Pitbull. Mr. Worldwide. Dude, would you go to a Pitbull concert?
124:11Should that be one of the punishments? You have to go to a Pitbull concert in one of the Pitbull bald caps.
124:17That's the thing now. Everyone's wearing the Pitbull bald caps.
124:20really? Do I have to wear one? He's got a lot of songs with over a billion streams.
124:25I have to wear one. Pitbull is the ultimate.
124:28You want to make fun of him and then you put the music on and you're like, I dare you to stay still.
124:34Just try to stand still and listen to Pitbull.
124:37You do Pitbull's top 10, throw it on at a party.
124:40Everybody's going to have a good time. Is Pitbull's top 10 stack up to Katy Perry, Craig?
124:45Wow. It might. It's really close. Wow. Katy Perry songs have maybe a little more character to them, but in terms of
124:51like pure, pure on the banger scale, maybe. What are the three songs we just mentioned?
124:55So you're talking about, what's the name of the song that I know every word to?
125:00Give Me Everything. Give Me Everything. Time of Our Lives.
125:03We didn't even talk about Timber. No, Timber with Kevin.
125:06DJ got us. Yeah, yeah, but he's on the song.
125:08Well, he's a huge. Talking about DJ got us falling in love.
125:12Yeah, that's with Usher. On the Floor with Jennifer Lopez.
125:15Yep. Like, there's a lot of songs here. I like it with Enrique Iglesias.
125:19Dude, there's a lot of- Fireball? Fucking awesome. Fireball.
125:21Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. How does it go?
125:24Here's the deal. Once you get big, you can do anything and you make a ton of money.
125:29Yeah. That's great. One more time. Oh yeah, he goes, I'm on fireball.
125:32Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, it's great.
125:35Tip of the man. Goodbye, everyone. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star
125:42Casino or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming.
125:45Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland.
125:51Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
125:57For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.

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