The Long View Podcast artwork

Which Rookies will Emerge as League Winners in 2026?

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

2 hr 42 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Oct 22, 2026
Published
Thu, October 22, 2026
66
Player insights
47
Players mentioned
Topics
Omar Cooper Jr.Jonathan TaylorJuwan JohnsonKenyon SadiqSaquon BarkleyAntonio WilliamsJadarian PriceJames CookJonah ColemanJordyn TysonXavier WorthyAaron JonesAlec PierceAlvin Kamara
Player analysis

Player insights

66

Aaron Jones

PositiveRole44:12

The source identifies Aaron Jones (referred to as 'Jacobs returning') as the Packers' running back in a competitive, winning-record offense; the source frames elite offenses as requiring a strong running back, and lists Jones among the best offenses' lead backs across the league.

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Alec Pierce

NegativeProjection29:09

Wide receiver who came off two great years of deep efficiency and received a massive contract extension, though the source notes he was not significantly different as a player in those years—he simply hit on more contested catches. The source uses Pierce as an example of how recent production can drive contract valuations in the NFL, relevant to the discussion of Josh Downs' potential market value.

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Alvin Kamara

PositiveUsage4:00

Kamara scored on a 31-yard screen touchdown in a game where the Saints fell behind early and Jameis Winston threw multiple interceptions, creating short fields and explosive opportunities; the source notes this was a game script where passing volume was limited (25 pass attempts the prior week), making Kamara's big-play opportunity a function of game situation and offensive design rather than sustained role expansion.

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Antonio Williams

PositiveBreakout8:21

Antonio Williams is grouped among the rookies generating significant discussion this week as an emerging league winner candidate in 2026.

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NegativeInjury47:07

Antonio Williams is out for the year after tearing his patellar tendon, ending his season and creating a significant opportunity void in his team's receiving corps.

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Bijan Robinson

PositiveRole44:58

The source identifies Bijan Robinson as the Falcons' running back in a competitive, winning-record offense; the source frames elite offenses as requiring a strong running back, and lists Robinson among the best offenses' lead backs across the league.

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Braelon Allen

NegativeRole60:00

Braylon Allen is identified as the Jets' preferred running back in their offensive scheme, with the source noting the team would prefer to run Allen approximately 42 times per game when healthy. Once Breeze returns from injury, the source expects the Jets to split carries roughly 21 times each between Allen and Breeze. This preference reflects the Jets' run-heavy approach when controlling games, suggesting Allen will see significant volume in the backfield hierarchy.

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Brock Bowers

NegativeRole2:40

Bowers is described as even more of a receiver than a wide receiver, with slot alignment at 77.7% and in-line alignment at 5.4%, representing a career low in in-line alignment. This indicates he is being deployed primarily as a slot receiver rather than a traditional tight end.

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Carnell Tate

PositiveBreakout9:04

Rookie who is smashing; placed in the emergence subcategory despite strong performance, with final placement TBD.

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Christian McCaffrey

PositiveRole44:38

The source identifies Christian McCaffrey as the 49ers' running back in a dominant, undefeated (6-0) competitive offense; the source frames elite offenses as requiring a strong running back, and lists McCaffrey among the best offenses' lead backs across the league.

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Chuba Hubbard

PositiveRole44:25

The source identifies Chuba Hubbard as the Panthers' running back in a division-leading competitive offense; the source notes Hubbard is 'going very well' and frames elite offenses as requiring a strong running back, listing Hubbard among the best offenses' lead backs across the league.

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Cyrus Allen

NegativeRole9:40

Deeper rookie mentioned as part of the emergence discussion; may not get full coverage due to time constraints.

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D'Andre Swift

NegativeRole33:53

Bears running back who has been paid but remains somewhat uncertain as a featured back; the source notes the Bears have been unsure about Swift and have been banged up, leading them to use Roshan Johnson for hard-running situations. The source speculates that Chicago could be a potential trade destination for Jonathan Taylor if the Bears want a more decisive difference-maker at running back.

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Dalton Kincaid

PositiveRole1:35

Kincaid is cited as an example of a flex tight end whose role has worked in favor of the source's thesis that flex tight ends (rather than blocking tight ends) are the ones scoring fantasy points.

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David Montgomery

PositiveRole43:05

The source identifies David Montgomery (implied as the Eagles' running back) in a competitive, winning-record offense; the source frames elite offenses as requiring a strong running back, and lists Montgomery among the best offenses' lead backs across the league.

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Elijah Sarratt

NegativeProjection54:00

Elijah Surratt was more productive than Omar Cooper during Indiana's college season, particularly against better competition. The source notes that while Cooper had a 207-yard, four-touchdown game against Indiana State (a 73-0 win) and limited production against elite teams in the postseason, Surratt demonstrated more consistent output against quality opponents. However, the source contextualizes this by noting that Indiana played from ahead in every game due to going undefeated, and that NFL evaluators and the Jets organization still preferred Cooper as a first-round pick.

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Garrett Wilson

NegativeMatchup54:00

Garrett Wilson faced coverage from Christian Gonzalez in a recent game, with the source noting that many evaluators believe Gonzalez's presence on the field significantly impacted Wilson's production. However, the source argues that Omar Cooper thrived in this same matchup, suggesting that while Wilson may see reduced volume against elite cornerback coverage, the Jets' offense can still generate production through their number-two receiver. The source uses this as evidence that Cooper's role as a clear number-two option is valuable even when the primary receiver faces shutdown coverage.

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Geno Smith

NegativeProjection60:00

Gino Smith's performance has been highly inconsistent, with the source describing him as having games where he looks like he was at the peak of his Seattle era and other games where he appears completely incompetent. This volatility is cited as a reason to expect inconsistency from Jets receivers like Omar Cooper, as Smith's play directly impacts their production ceiling and floor. The source notes Smith's up-and-down nature as a contextual factor when evaluating the Jets' passing game.

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Harold Fannin

NegativeProjection2:25

Fannin is not scoring fantasy points in recent weeks, contradicting earlier optimism about flex tight ends scoring.

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Isaiah Williams

NegativeUsage59:00

Isaiah Williams ran 77% of routes in week one, then escalated to 81%, 89%, 94%, and 83% route share across subsequent weeks as the Jets' primary slot receiver. These route percentages demonstrate consistent high-volume usage for a slot receiver, with the source noting that 80%+ route share is very solid for that position. Williams' elevated role was partly due to Omar Cooper's IR absence, but the source uses his sustained 80%+ route share to argue that the Jets will not artificially limit Cooper's opportunities upon his return.

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Jadarian Price

PositiveInjury8:38

Expected to return from injury; grouped with other IR returnees as part of the rookie emergence conversation.

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NegativeInjury8:38

Janarian Price is on injured reserve and part of the injury return conversation for rookies who could emerge as league winners upon their return.

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Jahmyr Gibbs

PositiveRole43:52

The source identifies Jahmyr Gibbs as the Lions' running back in a competitive, winning-record offense; the source frames elite offenses as requiring a strong running back, and lists Gibbs among the best offenses' lead backs across the league.

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Jake Ferguson

NegativeRole1:55

Ferguson is losing the outlet role to Flannoy; the source characterizes Ferguson as 'terrible' and notes he was also splitting the starting tight end role with Brevin Span forward, suggesting poor performance and role uncertainty.

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James Cook

NegativeRole40:05

Bills' elite running back; source identifies Cook as one of the few elite running backs on winning teams in the league, part of the argument that competitive teams with winning records all have an elite running back.

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PositiveRole41:59

The source identifies James Cook as the Bills' running back in a competitive, winning-record offense; the source frames elite offenses as requiring a strong running back, and lists Cook among the best offenses' lead backs across the league.

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Jayden Reed

NegativeValue28:37

Wide receiver similar to Josh Downs who did not make it to the open market and was extended for approximately $16 million per year; the source speculates that if Reed had gone to the open market healthy, he would have received more than that contract. Reed is used as a comparable for Downs' potential contract value.

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Jaylen Warren

PositiveRole42:32

The source identifies Jalen Warren as the Steelers' running back in a competitive, winning-record offense tied at the top of their division; the source frames elite offenses as requiring a strong running back, and lists Warren among the best offenses' lead backs across the league.

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Jeremiyah Love

PositiveInjury9:04

Grouped in the injury return conversation; expected to be discussed as part of the rookie emergence analysis.

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Jonah Coleman

NegativeInjury8:38

Jonah Coleman is expected back from injury and is part of the injury return conversation for rookies who could emerge as league winners upon their return.

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PositiveInjury8:38

Expected to return from injury; part of the IR returnee group that could impact rookie emergence.

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Jonathan Taylor

PositiveDepth Chart29:51

Running back under contract for two more years after an offseason extension; the source estimates only a 10-15% probability he gets traded. The Colts are unlikely to trade Taylor unless offered something exceptional (like a first-round pick) because he is the franchise's most joy-producing element and the only reason fans turn on games or buy tickets. The source believes the Colts will keep him to set up a new quarterback with an established running game and to honor him as a franchise icon. However, if Taylor were traded to a team like Minnesota, Denver, or Chicago with a strong offensive scheme (particularly Ben Johnson's Bears offense), his fantasy value could actually improve significantly. The source notes Taylor was scoring at Christian McCaffrey levels and was the RB1 at the end of last season before the Colts' collapse, and believes he could excel in a better offensive situation.

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NegativeDepth Chart36:11

The source places Jonathan Taylor's trade probability at 10%, suggesting low likelihood of a move despite the Colts' organizational turmoil. This contrasts with higher trade probabilities for other Colts players like DeForest Buckner.

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PositiveValue45:04

The source expects Jonathan Taylor to command premium trade value if moved, with the acquiring team likely paying significantly above market rate (approximately $0.130 on the dollar). This reflects the Colts' sentimental organizational approach and Taylor's established value, contrasting sharply with the Eagles' willingness to move Saquon Barkley.

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Jordyn Tyson

NegativeInjury8:38

Jordan Tyson is on injured reserve and expected to return; the source frames him as part of an injury return conversation for rookies who could emerge as league winners upon their return.

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PositiveInjury8:44

Expected to return from injury; the source notes he's been rostered everywhere but remains available in leagues without IR spots, suggesting he's a priority add for those with roster flexibility.

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Josh Cameron

NegativeRole9:40

Deeper rookie mentioned as part of the emergence discussion; may not get full coverage due to time constraints.

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Josh Downs

NegativeValue25:12

25 years old wide receiver on an expiring deal in the fourth year of his rookie contract; the source notes he has not lived up to expectations this season but remains clearly a good player. The Colts did not extend him this offseason, and the source estimates he would fetch a round-three pick in trade, possibly a late day-two pick (around round two) if a team really wanted him. The source would personally require a round-two pick to trade him, suggesting he believes round three is the realistic break-even point. Downs' small stature makes him a poor fit for the 49ers despite their receiver needs, but he could appeal to teams like the Chiefs who love that receiver archetype. The source notes that if acquired for a round-three pick, a team could let him walk in free agency and recoup a round-three or round-four compensatory pick.

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Juwan Johnson

NegativeUsage0:33

Johnson had five catches for four yards in a run-heavy game plan two weeks ago with his highest target share of the year; however, he subsequently had zero catches for zero yards in a week when his team posted negative 10% pure OE and the quarterback had a broken hand. He has shown higher snap share than target share and route share, indicating he's being deployed on some rundowns beyond receiving roles, suggesting nuanced usage patterns rather than a clear receiving role.

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PositiveUsage2:48

Johnson's slot usage has dropped to a career-low 77.7% with line usage at just 5.4%, but the source argues one down game shouldn't erase his season-long value; in the prior week he posted a season-high 21% target share on 5 targets (4 catches, 16 yards), and if extrapolated to 17 games at 5 targets per game, that pace yields 85 targets and 68 receptions—a top-10 tight end volume profile; the source emphasizes Johnson's strong ball-in-hand metrics and missed tackles forced, framing the recent low-yardage game as regression on yards per reception rather than a fundamental role loss.

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PositiveBreakout5:41

The source expresses strong interest in discussing Juwan Johnson's upside, indicating enthusiasm about his potential emergence as a league winner among 2026 rookies.

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Kenneth Walker III

PositiveProjection33:18

The source uses Kenneth Walker's success with the Chiefs as a comparable example for how Jonathan Taylor could benefit from a trade. Walker had the full offseason to integrate into the Chiefs' offense and has performed well, suggesting that Taylor, who the source believes can still clearly play on film, could similarly thrive if traded to a contender with a strong offensive scheme.

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Kenyon Sadiq

PositiveRole1:35

Sadiq is cited as an example of a flex tight end whose role has worked in favor of the source's thesis that flex tight ends (rather than blocking tight ends) are the ones scoring fantasy points.

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NegativeBust8:48

High-profile rookie who has not been smashing; being dropped as rosters tighten and not everyone can be rostered.

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NegativeRole60:00

Kenyan Sadiq is not being utilized as much as he perhaps should be in the Jets' offense, despite the team's personnel constraints. The source notes that even when the Jets lacked Cooper, AD Mitchell, and Isaiah Williams, they remained stubborn about running their preferred personnel groups and did not play full-time 12 personnel (two tight ends) to get Sadiq on the field alongside Mason Taylor. This suggests organizational reluctance to feature Sadiq more prominently, limiting his role despite his talent.

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Mason Taylor

NegativeRole60:00

Mason Taylor is being utilized as a two-way tight end in the Jets' offense, playing both in-line and in space. The source notes that the Jets prefer to run their personnel groups in a way that limits Kenyan Sadiq's opportunities, choosing to feature Mason Taylor as their primary tight end option rather than deploying 12 personnel (two tight ends) to get Sadiq on the field.

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Mike Washington Jr.

NegativeRole9:16

Handcuff rookie mentioned as part of the emergence discussion.

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Omar Cooper Jr.

PositiveBreakout8:21

Omar Cooper is highlighted as a rookie who has emerged as a league winner in 2026; the source frames him as an example of a boat that has already left, suggesting he's already captured significant value and production.

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PositiveRole46:46

Omar Cooper returned from IR and immediately established himself as a significant part of his team's offense, suggesting he has regained a prominent role and usage opportunity following his injury recovery.

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PositiveBreakout54:00

Omar Cooper is characterized as an immediate breakout candidate despite late first-round draft capital and limited preseason buzz. The source notes he was available as late as the last round in high-stakes summer drafts due to preseason obscurity, yet has emerged as the most intriguing waiver acquisition of the season. His college production profile featured strong per-route metrics throughout his career, with ball-in-hand skills and separation ability that translated immediately to the NFL. The source highlights his performance on an extended play where he found space and scored a touchdown, demonstrating elite-level traits at all depths (shallow, intermediate, deep). The source suggests Cooper could develop into a top-24 to top-36 wide receiver for years to come, positioning him as a potential league winner off waivers.

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PositiveValue54:00

Omar Cooper's draft capital and summer pricing were misaligned with his first-round pedigree. The source notes Cooper went as late as any first-round wide receiver in summer drafts, available in the last round of high-stakes leagues despite being a first-round NFL pick. His preseason lack of buzz (playing as WR4 in one preseason game) caused evaluators to undervalue him relative to his draft capital. The source argues his price never made sense in August, especially in best-ball formats, and that he represents exceptional value given his first-round status, organizational investment (Jets traded back into round one to select him), and immediate on-field performance. The source was aggressive in bidding on Cooper in redraft formats, acquiring him in multiple leagues and expressing surprise that other managers did not bid higher on a first-round rookie producing at an elite level.

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PositiveProjection54:00

The source projects Omar Cooper as a tier-two producer, expecting quarter-two level output for the remainder of the season. Coming off IR after week one, Cooper has posted 4.6 yards per route on 29 routes with 16.6 yards per target through limited action, demonstrating immediate efficiency. The source notes his late first-round draft capital and the Jets' decision to trade back into round one to secure him, suggesting high organizational conviction. Comparisons are drawn to Zay Flowers' rookie year and Calvin Ridley's rookie season alongside Julio Jones, positioning Cooper as a clear number-two option who can thrive when Garrett Wilson draws coverage. The source expresses optimism and plans to bid aggressively on Cooper in redraft formats, viewing him as a round-seven caliber talent with first-round draft capital.

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PositiveRole59:00

Omar Cooper returned from IR in week six at 79% route share, demonstrating immediate role establishment as a slot receiver. The source disputes concerns about 80 Mitchell's return limiting Cooper's opportunities, noting that Isaiah Williams maintained 77-94% route share across weeks one through five despite the Jets' personnel constraints. The source argues Cooper's first-round pedigree and the Jets' organizational investment (trading back into round one) suggest they will not artificially limit his playing time. Cooper is positioned as the clear number-two receiver in the offense, with the source comparing his role structure to Isaiah Likely's situation—a clear number-two option working alongside an elite number-one in Garrett Wilson. The source expects Cooper to maintain 80%+ route share going forward.

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Patrick Mahomes

PositiveRole40:40

Benefiting from defensive meta shift; defenses taking away explosive passes and deep shells creates more one-on-one opportunities downfield for Mahomes, though receiver injuries have limited production upside.

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Rachaad White

PositiveRole42:55

The source identifies Rashaad White (referred to as 'Basial Tootin' in the transcript, likely a mispronunciation) as the Jaguars' running back in a competitive, winning-record offense; the source frames elite offenses as requiring a strong running back, and lists White among the best offenses' lead backs across the league.

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Saquon Barkley

NegativeDepth Chart39:10

Trade rumors circulating; source reports speculation that Barkley may be held out of games while team evaluates potential trade offers, indicating possible roster movement or organizational uncertainty around his role.

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NegativeProjection44:28

The source suggests Saquon Barkley is more likely to be traded than Jonathan Taylor, largely because the acquisition cost would be lower due to Barkley's age; the source notes that most competitive teams already have their running back in place, limiting landing spots for running back acquisitions.

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NegativeDepth Chart44:42

The source assesses Saquon Barkley as more likely to be traded than Jonathan Taylor, largely because the cost to acquire would be lower given Barkley's age and the Eagles' ruthless organizational approach to roster decisions. The Eagles are characterized as willing to move players if it serves the team's interests, unlike the more sentimental Colts organization.

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Seth McGowan

NegativeRole9:16

Handcuff rookie with Jonathan Taylor trade context; the source wants to explore fantasy implications for the Colts, including whether Jonathan Taylor could get right and what a full teardown means for fantasy.

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Tim Patrick

NegativeUsage54:00

Tim Patrick was involved in a bizarre play where he blocked downfield on an extended play, inadvertently negating Omar Cooper's touchdown. The source describes the play as one of the most bizarre of the week, noting that Gino Smith was still five yards behind the line of scrimmage and not scrambling when Patrick committed the downfield block. The source sarcastically praises Patrick's signal-reading ability, suggesting this was an egregious example of poor situational awareness. Patrick later rotated into the slot receiver role after 80 Mitchell's return in week five, running 94% of routes in that week.

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Treylon Burks

NegativeRole47:39

Traylon Burks is characterized as a limited player in the Commanders' receiving corps, with the source noting that Antonio Williams' injury creates a runway for Williams to potentially become the team's number-one receiver.

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Tyquan Thornton

PositiveRole40:49

Receiving production from Patrick Mahomes in recent weeks; source notes Thornton has been able to find production despite receiver injuries on the Chiefs.

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Wan'Dale Robinson

NegativeValue28:27

Wide receiver who signed a contract worth approximately $18 million per year this offseason; the source notes Robinson had 140 targets in both of the last two years and 90-plus catches in both years, which agents can promote to justify higher contract values. The source uses Robinson as a comparable for Josh Downs' potential contract market, noting that Robinson's track record is better than fantasy circles typically realize. However, the source also notes Robinson's market value may not be representative because he is small and the wide receiver market is particularly wild for receivers who block.

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Xavier Worthy

PositiveRole40:49

Finding production from Patrick Mahomes in recent weeks despite receiver injuries on the Chiefs; source notes Worthy has been able to get opportunities downfield.

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NegativeUsage54:00

Xavier Worthy made a critical situational awareness error late in the first half against the Chargers, accelerating out of bounds with under 10 seconds remaining when the Chiefs were attempting to manage clock and field position before halftime. The source criticizes Worthy's lack of spatial awareness, noting that while coaches may instruct receivers to go out of bounds, they cannot explicitly dictate every scenario. Worthy's premature exit forced the Chiefs to attempt a 50-yard field goal instead of a shorter attempt, creating unnecessary difficulty for the kicker. The source contextualizes this within the Chiefs' broader offensive inefficiency that day—multiple goal-line stands, a missed field goal, and a Mahomes interception in the end zone—though the Chiefs ultimately won easily due to the Chargers' poor performance. The source expresses frustration with Worthy's decision-making despite acknowledging his long history of supporting the player.

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Zachariah Branch

NegativeBust10:06

Miami rookie who had two fumbles this week; source questions his relevance and suggests he may not be discussed due to time constraints.

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Full transcript

Episode Transcript

2,182
0:00Will these Rookies be League Winners? That's what we're talking about today on an upside down version of The Long View.
0:06I'm Ben Gretch. You can find the Stealing Signals newsletter at BenGretch.substack.com.
0:09With me as always is Jakob Sanderson. You can find his fantastic Thinking About Thinking newsletter at JacobSanderson.substack.com.
0:14Had a really fun article yesterday that I got a chance to read through.
0:17You did a Take Purge, which is always a fun kind of like unique content that gets a lot out there.
0:23Agreed on a lot of them. Found myself nodding along, enjoying a lot of them.
0:27Found myself, you know, seeing a few that are like, you know, some stuff that we had talked about that were fun.
0:33You went through every team. Also rage baited a little bit on a couple like your Juwan Johnson one.
0:38But what are we going to do? We'll have to move on from that.
0:42We're talking rookies today. I can't do a whole thing on how Juwan Johnson.
0:46You were mad about Juwan Johnson's target share. And then two weeks ago, he has five catches, four yards and highest target share of the year.
0:53And a run heavy game plan. And then suddenly you're like, well, I was right that he's doesn't have a role anymore.
0:59But I'm also the high guy in the room on him.
1:02You did the thing where you're like, I drafted him a bunch.
1:05Oh, you tilted me so much. You tilted me so much.
1:08Anyway, how are you doing? We're going to. So the, you know what?
1:11I just got us disappointed that Juwan Johnson had zero catches for zero yards this week.
1:15They had a negative 10% pure OE and their quarterback has a broken hand.
1:19No one ever said he can't have one bad week.
1:22Great receivers have bad weeks. There's variance in this stuff.
1:25He actually had a higher snap share than target share.
1:27There's new or then route share. There's nuance here where they've actually played him on some rundowns.
1:32Broadly, you're the flex tight end stuff has worked your favor a lot.
1:35Dalton Kincaid, Kenyon Sadiq. I think Friarmoot is really going to lose a lot more going forward because of Bernard and Darno.
1:41If you have Darno Washington, you have Bernard. Or don't Schultz like his routes are at a season low because they have Jalen Noel.
1:48You lose to the slot receiver and then you have some blocking tight ends.
1:51These teams that have blocking tight ends, it becomes a problem.
1:54There's one more. Oh, Flannoy. It just like is taking over the outlet role over Jake Ferguson.
1:59I think that's not, that's not a flex tight end.
2:02That's just a Jake Ferguson stinks issue. Like he was also, he was also splitting the starting tight end role with Brevin Span forward.
2:08I think he's just terrible. He's, he's just fair.
2:11Is it a different category? But I do think broadly, the conversation has moved your direction since I kind of did a
2:16victory lap a couple of weeks ago where I was like the flex tight ends are the ones that are scoring or Harold Fannin.
2:23Harold Fannin is not scoring any points. I mean, it's, it's been, it's been tough.
2:27A couple of weeks for the flex tight ends.
2:29As we check in on this conversation. I see it likely who, who he's like, people talk about Brock Bowers wide receiver.
2:35I see it likely he's even more of a receiver.
2:38I'm maybe I said he's even right. Cause I just saw it on Twitter and I didn't check it.
2:43But, um, someone said that he's been at a 3% in line alignment on his routes this year.
2:48I haven't, I'm writing an in season split. Maybe that's like from, from some week and I'm misappropriating the stat.
2:53So if, if that's true, I'm sorry, but like it's feels true anyway, watching the games.
2:58Cause he's, I literally have that receiver. I have that data up 77.7% slot in line 5.4%.
3:02It's a career low by a lot. I'm writing the in season field tippers this week.
3:06Need to get that finished. Didn't get it done last week.
3:09Cause it was a big waiver week. We're going to talk about a lot of the, the way this was the felt
3:15like the biggest waiver week of the year. And we were talking, you were like, I can't remember a year where week
3:21six is, you know, the biggest waiver week of the year.
3:24And I kind of feel the same, especially for these deeper formats, but it does make a little sense in respect of
3:30all the things we talked about, about like all off season.
3:33And then the longer like concepts of, you know, rookies that do emerge and things, but all off season, we talked about
3:39these offenses being more spread and having a bunch of different formational stuff and different things they can get to.
3:44And so it maybe took a little bit more for teams to show their cards a little bit or to find things that they actually like or whatever.
3:52But I mean, that gets back to the joint.
3:54You were right about the flux stuff, but the John Johnson thing to me is like, yeah, I mean, when they go
4:00negative 10% PR, we, they're going to, they're not going to use a ton of John Johnson.
4:05Like teams are going to do different formational stuff in different game scripts and different things.
4:09This was a game where, you know, they were behind a little early, but Jameis Winston starts throwing picks.
4:14They get short fields. They hit on some explosives like that.
4:17Yakety sacks, Alvin Kamara, 31 yard screen touchdown where everyone just fell down around him.
4:21Um, but like the, like that you're not going to have a lot of like passing to Juwan.
4:26I mean, it was, it wasn't a great game for a lot of hands up hitting on a fade late, but like
4:32you mentioned in your piece, Vela was down as well.
4:35Like it wasn't a great game for pass volume.
4:37They had 25 pass attempts the week prior. If you want to go back to that one.
4:42Um, cause that was one where he only had five targets, but it was actually a 20.
4:46Percent or 21%, depending on how you look at target share, if you count throwaways or not.
4:51But, um, it was a season high target share.
4:53We had talked to, I was laughing at that one when I was writing signals two weeks ago.
4:58Cause I was like, he had five targets, four catches only like 16 yards.
5:02And that's just regression. We talked about how good he'd been ball in hand and miss tackles forced and all this.
5:07And like, that's just regression on the yards per reception side, but five targets for receptions.
5:12If you average that as a Titan for a week, you're a top 10 volume Titan.
5:16You have 85 targets, 68 receptions on 17 games.
5:18Like obviously I've done a little bit of math on that before, but like 17 games, five targets, 85, like, or five receptions, 85 catches.
5:25You probably want an 85 catch bar for receivers, but for tight ends, four catches a game is actually 68 catches per game.
5:31It's top 10 every, every season. I mean, that's, that's solid.
5:34Um, so it's basically one down game for Juwan Johnson.
5:37And you're like thrown in the towel and capitulating and saying that all, it drove me nuts.
5:41Anyway, neither here nor there, the upside down. Let's spend another hour time with Juwan Johnson.
5:46God, I want to so bad. I should have talked to you about it before the show.
5:50Uh, the upside, we got, we got, we got a heart, we got a heart out today.
5:55So we, we have a heart out. We're starting earlier.
5:58You're like, God, he's, he's turned up. Jacob wrote a great take, uh, purge 32 teams.
6:02The other 31 are great. There's one that's horrible.
6:04I loved reading it. It was fantastic. The upside down show, um, that we're doing today.
6:09We're going to flip some of the things that we do.
6:12It just fits what we want to do this week.
6:14The short view is going to be one topic.
6:17The long view is going to be many topics.
6:19The, uh, short view is going to be me asking it instead of you asking it.
6:23You wrote a ton about the Colts this week.
6:26I actually didn't even know that you had written that or hadn't seen you publish it yet.
6:30When I asked you about this short view topic, because I wanted to get your thoughts.
6:35Chris bought, bought fired. We love to do as the Colts turn our, our, our, our melodrama, our soap opera now.
6:40And then I like to hear your takes on it.
6:43You sent me a thing that said that that piece was like two hours or four hours or something long for an audio listener.
6:49Yeah. I, I can't confirm this, but someone, uh, someone replied in the comments that they, they listened to because both of
6:55our sub stacks, like we don't record them as audio, but if you choose to listen to like whatever.
7:00Like AI voice they have, you can listen to it as, as it's being read out to you by, um, like I robot.
7:07And someone said that would was over two hours.
7:09So it was, it was, uh, I mean, it took, it, it, it, it took a while to write.
7:14I, it was cathartic. It was like, it was like basically my form of therapy over all of Monday and Tuesday.
7:20Um, so not a fantasy related post at all, but like, if you're listening to this and you listen to us do
7:26three to four hour podcasts every week, guessing you're somewhat of a football sicko.
7:29Uh, well, we're going to get into that one.
7:32We're going to get into some of it. Yes.
7:34The, the full thing, we can't go two hours on the Colts, the full thing.
7:38You're going to have to go to the, to the sub stack of the newsletter.
7:42But in terms of the short, we're going to make the short view, a little bit of a, like a long view,
7:48individual non football topic, sort of again, flipping it.
7:51The long view will be a game. Basically. Um, I've written before about my four quarters framework.
7:55We'll talk more about that in a second when we get to the concept, but we're going to go through all the
8:01different rookies and, and, and, and, and make a case in terms of what type of production we think they'll give you
8:07the rest of the way with that's quarter one, quarter two, quarter three production.
8:11We'll explain what that means as we get there, but we want to be able to work through them quickly.
8:16A lot of people talking about Omar Cooper, Antonio Williams, Jeremy Bernard, Jacoby lane this week.
8:21We also want to get to the guys who could be the next Omar Cooper.
8:25Antonio, like the big lesson of this week. I wrote it in my introduction is if you feel like you missed a
8:30boat on an Omar Cooper or on Jeremy Bernard or on Jacoby lane, there are more boats that have not left yet that could leave the rookies emerge.
8:38That's the lesson. There's a bunch of guys on IR that could come back that will do an injury return conversation.
8:44Jordan Tyson, Janarian price, Jonah Coleman's expected back to John striplings at longer term one.
8:48There are obvious high profile, interesting ones that have not been necessarily smashing like a McKay lemon or Kenyan Sadiq.
8:53And we'll have to place where we think they will finish.
8:56Um, Denzel Boston and Casey Concepcion. Those guys in Cleveland will fit there.
8:59I threw carnell Tate in that subcategory. He is smashing, but we'll see where he lands.
9:04I threw Jeremiah love and the injury return conversation.
9:06We'll also talk about him. And then, you know, as well, we do have kind of a hard out, but as we're
9:12going to try to work through them as quick as we can, there's some handcuffs.
9:16Emma Johnson, Mike Washington, Seth McGowan with the Jonathan Taylor trade, which I want.
9:20The big thing I want to ask you about is like, it was Seth McGowan was a fantasy implications.
9:25Could Jonathan Taylor get right? Cause you have your finger on the pulse of like the way that this organization operates.
9:31So there's a real interesting, what does it mean for fantasy for the Colts?
9:34If there's a full teardown conversation. And so it's a little bit of a longer, but it is a short view topic
9:40that we're going to go into in just a sec.
9:43But yes, the, there are also some deeper guys as well.
9:46We'll try to get to like a Ted Hearst, like a Cyrus Allen, like a Josh Cameron.
9:51There's the Miami guys, Zachariah branch had two fumbles this week.
9:53I don't know if he's even relevant. We'll probably won't get to him, but you go through all those names.
9:59I just mentioned there's 20 something rookies that like this was a, a, a panned rookie class for a lot of people in dynasty circles a lot.
10:06Like, I don't think any of those names are clearly off the fantasy radar.
10:10Like some of those last ones that I mentioned, maybe a little deep and some of the shallow leagues, maybe some of the handcuffs or whatever.
10:17Some of the other ones I mentioned, but like, as these other guys are hitting the McKay lemons in those shallow leagues are being cut.
10:24Kenyan Sadiqs are being like, they have to be like, everyone can't be rostered.
10:27Lemon got caught in a couple of my FFPC leagues this week.
10:31He's starting. People are starting to wave the white flag.
10:33So the IR guys are available. I just added Jordan Tyson this week in multiple home leagues.
10:38I've been talking about him, like he's rostered everywhere.
10:40And then I looked at my own leagues and I was like, he's still available in the leagues that don't have IR spots.
10:46John Stribling is going to be, he's available everywhere.
10:49He's available in FFPC. He's going to be somebody that's a longer term thing.
10:53Like when do you want to act on him?
10:55So we're going to go through all of that as our long view.
10:58I'm just laying it out there because typically at the top of the show, we do a lot of topics.
11:04I want to give you the floor to do one interesting topic to start.
11:08The Colts fired Chris Ballard. I've not had a chance to read your piece.
11:11You mentioned as an introduction in your take purge that you spent most of Monday and Tuesday writing about it.
11:17Sounded the way you described it. You're like, I don't even know if I can type anymore.
11:21I was like, it sounds like a stealing signals week for Jacob, but only about the Colts and Chris Ballard.
11:27The amount of research and writing that you did the hours.
11:30I was like, this sounds like, well, you know, I know this feeling very well that you're describing.
11:34Fantastic. Fantastic read. Just to hear you describe your process on it.
11:38You joke to me that we could talk about this forever and I'm going to have to cut you off because like
11:44you could go forever on the Colts. I, I, I want to let you go for it.
11:48Cause I want to know where you're at and what you think are the most relevant things.
11:53But I guess most centrally to prompt you, what does it mean for the 2026 fantasy landscape for the Colts going forward?
11:59You joked to me about Anthony Richardson a minute ago, like, or in, in a minute ago, it was, it was yesterday
12:05when we were talking through some waiver stuff. I guess I don't see, I'm going to give a small little take of my own.
12:11I guess I don't see that Shane Steichen is going to be coaching for his job.
12:15There was a report that a lot of people think he's going to be on the way out, but don't be so sure.
12:21There's the possibility. We talked about this a few weeks ago that we think Steichen's maybe got a little bit of a
12:27bad, a bad, um, whatever, uh, opportunity here or bad rap or I can't think of the word, but he hasn't necessarily been evaluated fairly.
12:34Obviously not really had the quarterback in place. He was kind of saddled with Anthony Richardson and wasn't really thrilled about that.
12:40Ended up moving off of Richardson and had a really successful offense last year with Daniel Jones, which is a pretty impressive
12:46notch on his resume for an offensive minded guy.
12:48And then Jones tears his Achilles. Like what are you going to do?
12:52First breaks his fibula, as you like to point out before the, the, the offense kind of started to crater.
12:57And then two weeks later, tears his Achilles, um, or a couple of weeks after the fibula injury, whatever.
13:02But, uh, um, he had two down games coming out of the pie and then tore the Achilles.
13:07It was really like a quick drop off. The first 10 games were fantastic is the point that I'm trying to make.
13:13This offense was humming last year, last year. I mean, it's not like it was years ago.
13:18It's not like we're talking, going back to 2023 to make a case.
13:21Coaches live off like 2023 results for three, four years later, all the time.
13:25Like there's, there's coaches that manage to keep jobs that they don't really deserve.
13:29Zach Taylor is still living off that Superbowl run.
13:3110 years later. Taylor's done, you know, a decent job.
13:34He's he's, I think he's improved over the years.
13:36He's maybe in an argument that, um, you know, give, give coaches Alicia's.
13:40I think he should have gotten fired years ago for the consistent failure of early season preparedness and, and a lot of
13:46other things, but, um, not how the Bengals operate regardless.
13:48Shane Steichen may get fired, but he may not.
13:51And so my little take here was he's going to be coaching for his job.
13:55His best shot to do that is definitely Daniel Jones.
13:57If he just puts Richardson out there and lets the whole thing bottom out, that's a problem.
14:02Tyler Warren's not on the trade block or anything.
14:04He's a year two guy. They're going to build around him.
14:07They're still going to have him and they're going to, they're going to try to have a successful passing game.
14:13Alec Pierce may or main, I'm assuming you think is not going to come back at this point.
14:18I don't know. He's, he's back. Um, not practicing, but he's like been seen walking around without a cast.
14:23I mean, the, the way that it was framed when he first got placed on IR was basically like, he might need another surgery and he might not.
14:30But whether he got the surgery immediately after that chiefs game or like six weeks later is not likely to affect his 2027 status.
14:37So they just figured we're going to try and see if we can rehab it and he can come back us here.
14:43And if he can, great. And if he can't, he'll just get the surgery in six weeks.
14:47Um, so I think probably in the next couple of weeks, he will like either be on the field or under the knife.
14:53And you said that we talked about this a couple of weeks ago.
14:57Cause I floated him as a pickup. And you said that was similar to what they tried coming into the season.
15:02And then the rest and rehab didn't work because week one, it's just been like a, it's just been, it seems like it's been the recovery from hell.
15:10Like he, I mean, this was an issue that it's not like he suffered a specific injury last year.
15:15It's an injury that he's played through for multiple seasons.
15:18He has some sort of specific issue with his heel.
15:20Um, and then he decided to try and address it this off season.
15:24They tried to address it with a PRP shot.
15:26Didn't take, they tried a surgery. It like, I guess didn't work enough because then he got another round of shots after the surgery.
15:33Then like the timeline on returning was off. Like he was supposed to be back for training camp.
15:38It kind of dragged further and further. And then he came out and played on it.
15:42He didn't look that great. He got injured five quarters into his season again.
15:46So like, it's just, I guess it would just really surprise me if this injury and recovery plan that has basically been
15:52unsuccessful and full of setbacks for now. 10 months, like all of a sudden it's like, Oh, well four more weeks of rest.
15:58Now he's perfect. A hundred percent. Like I'd love it.
16:00That'd be great. I'd hope, I hope that's the case for him, but that's just feels like a thin bat.
16:06So setting that him aside, there's still probably Warren in the offense.
16:09The Taylor question is when you're going to address, I guess I could see them training Keenan Allen if they're going to bottom out, but.
16:16You know, I don't know if anybody wants Keenan Allen, right?
16:19So you have Keenan Allen out there. You have Josh Downs, presumably, unless you're going to tell me they're going to trade Josh Downs.
16:25I don't know about him either. The big one is Quentin Nelson.
16:28People have talked about it. And if your offensive line falls apart because you trade from the line, that's an issue.
16:34But I've also heard the defensive players to force Buckner and those things at the defense gets worse.
16:39Like, yeah, it's a problem. But like, why can't the offense still be somewhat interesting in trail scripts?
16:44And like at least competitive if Daniel Jones gets healthier on the Achilles and I don't think Daniel Jones is going anywhere.
16:50And again, if Steichen's kind of coaching for his job, it's all, it's all an interesting conversation.
16:54So anyway, I wanted to give you the floor.
16:57I want to let you talk about it. You know, I already kind of prompted you on the, on the Pierce thing,
17:03but I want to know the 2026, like who are the trade candidates?
17:06How bad can the offense get? I'm hearing people say that this is like a very clear teardown.
17:11That's the big, the big thing. But also like, let's talk about Chris Ballard, how terrible his, his tenure was, or I assume that's where you're thinking.
17:18I mean, I don't think it was like, I don't think he's like incompetent.
17:22In fact, the reason why I wrote this like long piece, and I said this right up front, I was like, you
17:28know, I think Chris Ballard is actually an interesting general manager to talk about because he's not like devoid of ability.
17:33Like if I could write, you know, maybe one day I will, I kind of joked about it.
17:38Like maybe if I get bored for off season content someday, maybe I'll write like a similar retrospective of the Ryan Grigson era.
17:44And it's like, that would be funny. Um, but like, it wouldn't be that interesting.
17:48It would just be like, and this year he drafted a bunch of guys who suck.
17:53And then he signed a bunch of guys who suck.
17:55And then he drafted a bunch of guys who suck.
17:58And then he traded a first for Trent Richardson.
18:01Like that's like kind of, it was just a clown show for five years.
18:04I mean, Ballard did some good things. Like he drafted a lot of good players, particularly offensive line players.
18:09Um, he drafted six different players over the course of his tenure outside of Quentin Nelson.
18:14Um, one of which was in round two and the rest of which were around three or later that all became, I
18:20would say league average or better starters at their position.
18:22Like he was able to consistently find value on the offensive line.
18:26Uh, he was able to consistently find like linebacker and safety value and defensive line value.
18:30And the interior, a lot of it on day two and day three.
18:33Like, I think he's actually a pretty good like talent evaluator in terms of finding starters, uh, in the deeper areas of the draft.
18:40A lot of the like smaller free agent signings he made, especially earlier in his tenure, like legitimately contributed.
18:45His hit rate was pretty high. Um, so I think he's a pretty decent evaluator of like finding guys who are a little bit undervalued, who can play.
18:52What I think like ultimately will go down as the, the failures of his tenure is that he just never, like he
18:58was brought in with Andrew Luck and his job, I think was kind of similar to like what the saints were doing
19:04at a very similar period, which is they had drew breeze, the rest of the roster to atrophied around him.
19:10And everyone always talks about that 2017 saints draft that kind of rejuvenated them and gave them another window.
19:15They didn't win the super bowl, but they could have, um, where they got Camara and they got Hendrickson and they got,
19:21um, I forget who else they all, a lot of more.
19:24Anyway, they got a ton of guys in that draft class Ram check.
19:27And the Coles did kind of a similar thing the very next year in 2018.
19:31That's when they, they had luck coming back off the injury.
19:34It was Ballard second draft. They traded back from three.
19:37Uh, they, you know, it's had, had, had they known luck was going to retire in a year and a half.
19:42They probably draft Josh Allen in that draft. Chris Ballard.
19:45It's been like a pretty open secret that he had Josh Allen ranked as his number one quarterback in that draft.
19:51Um, but they thought they had luck. So they trade back.
19:54They get Quinn Nelson. They get Braden Smith in that draft.
19:57They get, uh, Shaquille Leonard in that draft who is like next to luck.
20:00The second greatest, what if of his 10 years?
20:03Like what if this all pro defensive superstar didn't basically have his career ended after four years cause of back injuries.
20:08Um, they get a bunch of other dudes. And like, I think that he probably would have been a really good GM
20:14and what that original job assignment was, which is just rebuild an atrophied roster around a franchise quarterback.
20:19Luck retires. The job description, like now completely changes.
20:22It's like, you have to figure out the direction for a franchise that's directionless.
20:25And he just never did that. It was like every year he was just trying to kind of be as good as possible in the upcoming year.
20:33Like instead of ever taking a step back, the key point, I think to me is the 2020 off season.
20:38When we, uh, when luck had just retired going into 2019, he'd built up some of the young core, but like we could have.
20:44Take that as a reset year. Instead, we traded a first round pick for DeForest Buckner.
20:49We signed Phillip Rivers. We made the playoffs like kind of what of it, right?
20:53We just end up in this cycle of now we got to get Carson Wentz.
20:57Now we're going to try Matt Ryan and ends up botting out with Anthony Richardson.
21:01And then they rebuilt back up. They tried to go on, on Jones, we ended up where we are now.
21:06So like, you know, to summarize all of that, I would say like the, the cycle of the Chris Ballard era was
21:12a lack of overall foresight about building a sustainable winner.
21:15And then consistently having to take really thin bets like the Wentz trade or the Richardson pick or the sauce trade to
21:21like either maximize like very shaky windows or save his job in like the Richards.
21:25Like a lot of times it was like he was in a difficult position from a job security perspective because he'd made mistakes.
21:31And then Jim Ursae would be like, you have to do this.
21:34And then he would do it. And then that would set the franchise back further.
21:38And so I think overall, my major like issue with him is just a lack of long-term vision.
21:43If you want like the step-by-step, every siding, every pick analysis, you can go find that on my sub stack.
21:48But where do we go from here? The 2026 question?
21:51Yeah, I mean, I think everything's on the table is like the very short answer.
21:55Obviously, everything's on the table when you lose at home to the Titans, your fans boo you off the field.
22:00And you fire your GM. So I think that there's a wide range of where things can go.
22:05But I mean, from a psych in perspective, I think he's in a similar spot to what Mike McDaniel was in last
22:11year, which was they fired the GM right away.
22:14They clearly decided like, okay, the GM is the one who's more at fault for the situation.
22:18And then we'll give the coach the rest of the year to prove himself.
22:22And like, I think that yeah, if Steichen like somehow miraculously turned this thing around, and they like have a winning record,
22:28or they somehow even make the playoffs like yeah, they would probably go into the offseason, keeping him.
22:33And like interviewing GM candidates on the basis of like, we would like you to keep Shane Steichen.
22:38Maybe they don't mandate it, but they would prefer it.
22:40You know, if the season goes poorly, then I think Steichen is going to lose his job.
22:45And I think the most likely scenario is probably that they kind of leave it up to the GM candidates and say
22:51like, we have this coach under contract. If you like him, you can keep him if you want to bring in your
22:57own guy, you can bring in your own guy.
22:59And we're just gonna we're just gonna hire the best GM candidate in a vacuum kind of regardless of what they want to do with Shane Steichen.
23:06And I mean, I like Shane Steichen. But I think if there's some merit to that, like I don't like one of
23:12my one of the early things that I did not like that the Colts did is that they forced Ballard to accept
23:18a coach that wasn't his in the first place.
23:21They kept Chuck Pagano for Ballard's first year. And then we like drafted a safety in the first round who fit Chuck
23:26Pagano scheme fired him the year later and he didn't fit scheme anymore.
23:30So like, I think that there's reasons to not force your GM to retain a head coach that they don't actually like.
23:36So I, I could kind of go either way.
23:38In terms of the roster players, like the the obvious moves are Buckner and then the other defensive tackle Grover Stewart.
23:44They're both older. They're both expiring contracts. They both have value.
23:47So I think they should be gone for sure.
23:49And I suspect they will be the most interesting name.
23:52You mentioned him. It's Quentin Nelson. 30 years old.
23:54He has an expiring contract at the end of this year.
23:57I think a lot of it is up to Quentin Nelson.
24:00Like if he like, I mean, I assume that the owner would go to Quentin Nelson and be like, what are your thoughts on resigning here?
24:07Like, do you want to? And if the answer to that is no, then we better move him because that would be
24:13a disaster if we just lose him for nothing.
24:16Um, when he's a guy that, you know, we just saw Cam Juergens go for like a round two pick and Quentin
24:21Nelson's arguably the best interior lineman of his generation.
24:24Like he would at least, I think, fetch two day two picks.
24:27And who knows? Maybe a team would be desperate enough to offer or one.
24:31Um, I definitely think that that's probably the most interesting domino to fall.
24:34Personally, I hope he's moved. Like we need to recoup draft capital and he's 30 years old.
24:39And I don't know when the next time the Colts are going to be a seriously competitive team and what he's like.
24:45My guess is if he wants to resign, the Colts would resign him because I think they would just like him to
24:51be like a Colt for life and potentially make the Hall of Fame and go into the rafters and all that sentimental stuff.
24:57But I, you know, I would like to see him moved.
25:00The rest of the O-line is all younger. Like the oldest, like Bernard Ryman's 29, but he's under contract for several more years.
25:06And all the other Colts offensive linemen are on their rookie contracts.
25:09So I think that they're all going to stay.
25:12Downs is a little bit interesting. The Athletic put out a trade board.
25:15And I think it's like the Colts have five of the top 17 names or something right now.
25:20And so Downs is interesting. He's 25 years old.
25:22Obviously has not lived up to what our expectations was this season.
25:26He's still clearly a good player, but he's also on an expiring deal.
25:29He's in the fourth year of his rookie contract.
25:32They didn't extend him this offseason. My guess is that they will keep him and they will figure out a contract this offseason.
25:38But, you know, if a team wanted to come calling, that would be of note.
25:42I don't think he's a great fit for the 49ers because they like their receivers to block so much and he's so tiny.
25:48But, you know, that's a team that really needs a wide receiver.
25:51And it has like a lot of question marks long term because their most reliable receiver this year has been Evans, who's old and hurt.
25:58So, you know, who knows? He's not a good fit for the Chiefs, but they love that type of receiver.
26:03They would have another, like too small wide receiver would be fantastic.
26:07But no, I mean, Downs, the wide receivers have value on the open market.
26:10Downs would clearly fetch, even though he's not great, he would clearly fetch some type of draft capital return, potentially even like a day three.
26:17Excuse me. I was gonna say round three, late day two pick.
26:20But yeah, I would think a high day three pick at minimum, like around four or something.
26:25I mean, maybe it's around two. I don't know what year.
26:28I would really hope he'd get it. I mean, if he couldn't fetch a day two pick, I would be horrified if
26:34they traded him for a day three pick. I would lose my mind.
26:37The only reason would be that the acquiring team would need to quickly extend him and also be on the hook for
26:43quite a bit of money in that extension. So, yeah.
26:46But you don't think he would get a round two pick, right?
26:49I think round three is right. Well, I think probably he'd go for round three, which is why I think they'd probably keep him.
26:55I actually would move him for a round two pick if you got that.
26:59So, that's... No, you don't think they would... You don't think they would get that offer, I was saying.
27:04Do you? Right. That's what I'm saying. It's like, I guess I'm saying it in the opposite way, which is that like,
27:10what I would need to trade him if I was GM of the Colts is a round two pick, which means I don't think that they'll get it.
27:18Because like, I don't think anyone likes Josh Downs more than me.
27:21So, if that's what I would take to sell, then no one's gonna offer it.
27:25You know, so like, I think round three pick, I think is kind of the break-even point there.
27:30The one thing I would point out is that because he plays wide receiver, like, I think a team could...
27:35If you give up a round three pick for Josh Downs, you acquire him, and then you let him go in free
27:41agency, like, he's gonna probably fetch you at least a round four comp pick, if not a round three comp pick.
27:47Because, I mean, some teams, like, the wide receiver market's wild.
27:50It is wild, but it's wild for guys that block, to your point.
27:53I do think... But Wondale Robinson got like $18 million a year this year.
27:57Yeah, that's fair. He had 140 targets both the last two years, though.
28:00I mean, Wondale Robinson's track record is better than people realize.
28:03I think... 140 targets two years running is a lot.
28:06Man, that's better than Downs. Yeah, I would imagine that Josh Downs, his contract...
28:10Is in the same range. ...with Seed Wondale Robinson's contract.
28:13I mean, like, J... Yeah, I mean, like, Jaden Reed is another guy that got, like, who's kind of similar to Josh
28:18Downs, and he didn't even make it to the open market.
28:21He got extended for, I think, 16 per... I suspect if he went to the open market, he actually gets more than that.
28:28Well, not now, obviously. But, like, my point on Wondale is...
28:31I'm glad for him he took the security, but had he gone to the open market healthy...
28:35My point on Wondale is he's not a great representation of the market, because I think people, especially in fantasy, are like,
28:41he's tiny and he's not even that good. And, like, I think in the NFL circles, it's like, you have 140 targets
28:47two years in a row, and you have 90-plus catches two years in a row.
28:51And agents can promote that stuff. And, yeah, 90 receptions?
28:54Teams are like, yeah, this guy's a lock for 90 receptions.
28:57We're going to pay him. You know, like, that...
28:59I guarantee that got a few million added to his contract.
29:02Just the coming off two strong years of production is helpful.
29:05We're just talking about Alec Pierce. Guy's coming off two great years of deep efficiency, and he wasn't even that different of
29:11a player than the first two years. He just hit on more of it.
29:15I mean, he's a good contested catch player, had a lot of contested catches the last couple of years.
29:20They played him a massive deal, but there's a lot more that goes into that and what he does for the scheme and everything.
29:26But I do think that recent production element for Wondale versus Downs is a...
29:30I mean, but, like, Jalen Naylor got $12 million a year over three years.
29:34Yes, yes, yes. I'm not arguing the wide receiver market.
29:36I'm not... Deami Brown and all these guys have gotten certain contracts.
29:40Like, Josh House is way better than those guys.
29:42Anyway, so I think he'll probably stay. I think that the...
29:45Then there's the guys that are, I think, the most interesting and the most interesting domino for fantasy we've been circling is Jonathan Taylor.
29:51Jonathan Taylor is under contract for two more years.
29:54He got extended this offseason. So, I'm guessing... Where I think the Colts would be at on Taylor is this organization is entirely devoid of joy right now.
30:01Fans were, like, you know, chanting Fire Ballard at the game in the second half.
30:05Jonathan Taylor, like, you know, as much as, like, Nelson and Buckner are incredible players and are probably just as impactful, if not more, than Taylor.
30:12Like, Taylor is the guy who gets the ball in his hands 25 times a week.
30:17And so he is, like, the most joy-producing element of this franchise over the last era.
30:21He's the guy that, like, you get to truly watch in a way that you can't really watch.
30:26Like, defensive linemen and offensive linemen. I think unless they are blown away, the Colts would just not want to, like, trade
30:32away the only thing on this team that gives any Colts fan, like, a reason to turn on the game or buy a ticket.
30:38And so, I think, like, because he's under contract for two more years, because they're probably going into, you know, some new
30:44quarterback at some point soon and they'd want to have a running game set up because he's a franchise icon who I'm
30:50sure they will want to put, like, in the ring of honor and all that stuff.
30:54Like, I think he would be available in the sense of if a team just decided to offer you something crazy.
31:00Like, if the Broncos called up the Colts and they were like, look, J.K.
31:04Dobbins is washed. Jonah Coleman's cool and all, but, you know, we're not relying on a rookie and R.J.
31:09Harvey's limited. We'll give you our first-round pick for Jonathan Taylor.
31:12Like, it would be malpracticed to not say yes to that.
31:15Totally. Vikings. And I'm sure, yeah, if the Vikings, if they were like, this is our Super Bowl window, you know.
31:20We're 5-0. We're 5-0. You know, we're playing the Vikings this week.
31:24Maybe Jonathan Adela goes off for 150 yards. The Vikings go, man, that guy would sure change things.
31:28You know. See it all the time. Yeah, right?
31:31Like, maybe they're like, man, that 28 on the Colts.
31:33Like, he could really play. You know, you were 28 on the Vikings.
31:37He could pose for photos of Adrian Peterson. Who knows?
31:40Anyways, maybe they offer a first. Like, I think if we got something like that, then, yeah, he's gone and he better be.
31:46But, like, I don't know. Do I think this team will trade Taylor for, like, a third and a fifth?
31:51Like, even a second? I guess I'd have a hard time seeing that.
31:55I think also because they're going to be trying to lure in a GM candidate.
31:59Like, I feel like what I would do if I was ownership is, like, yeah, if you get an offer that is
32:05just so obviously you need to accept this for anyone who's under contract long term, you take it.
32:09You know? But, like, otherwise, you trade the guys who are clearly not going to be on the team next year.
32:15That's Buckner. That's Stewart. And then that would be Nelson if he says he doesn't want to extend with you.
32:21And otherwise, you look at guys like Downs and Taylor and, like, Sauce Gardner and whoever else.
32:25And you just let the new GM decide, right?
32:27You're like, here, like, you can keep these players and try to retool faster.
32:31If you want to trade these players, you can trade these players.
32:34But, you know, here is all of our assets.
32:37You decide what to do with them. That's my guess.
32:40So what odds would I put out that Jonathan Taylor gets traded?
32:43I don't know. I'll say, like, I'll say, like, 10%, 15%.
32:46Okay. Yeah, it's good news. I think it's very unlikely, but it's definitely not impossible.
32:50I said good news there. I meant that's good intel.
32:52It's good info because I was thinking it was higher, but I trust your read on this.
32:57I had been asked about selling Taylor Lowe in fantasy, and I had said, well, if he gets traded, it actually could really benefit his value.
33:04In fact, I would argue it probably would. I know it's not easy, but stepping into a new team as a running back, especially one acquired like that.
33:12I mean, look at what's done for Kenneth Walker with the Chiefs.
33:15I mean, obviously, he had the whole offseason to get into a new offense, but I think Jonathan Taylor can still clearly
33:21play on film and on all that stuff. I don't think you want him on the Colts for, like, what happened at the end of last season.
33:28He was scoring as well as Christian McCaffrey, and he was basically the RB1.
33:32And then you go to a team with no passing game in Phillip Rivers and bottoming out, and he's suddenly unable to
33:38find the space and hit on the big runs.
33:40You send him to Minnesota. You send him to Denver.
33:43You send him to, I think, Chicago's a team that low-key could acquire a running back.
33:47They seem to be still a little bit on – they paid DeAndre Swift, but a little bit unsure on him.
33:53He's been a little bit banged up. They went to a lot of Roshon Johnson for hard up the middle running after
33:59they were doing that a lot with Manungai. Manungai's a guy they really like, and he'll come back from that injury.
34:04So maybe Chicago's not a real answer there, but possibly a team that, like, Ben Johnson's like, look, I just want a
34:10massive difference maker, and I don't feel like we actually have that.
34:13He seems to think he can run the ball with anybody.
34:16I mean, Roshon Johnson just had 80 yards, and the guy looked like a corpse a couple weeks ago.
34:21Jonathan Taylor on the Bears. I mean, this is where I'm at with the Colts.
34:25Like, I don't – like, I care about the franchise long-term, but, like, I'm not under any illusions that any of these
34:31guys that I've loved watching the last six years are going to win a championship with the Colts.
34:36So, like, I want what's best for them. I want to watch them on good teams.
34:40Like, I want all these guys to get traded.
34:43I want the Forrest Buckner to go back on San Francisco, and I want to be able to watch him in a
34:49playoff game and, like, make big plays, and people get to, like, comment on how good he's been the last while.
34:54He's been toiling in mediocrity. I want Jonathan Taylor to be on the Bears, like, just, like, piling up 150-yard games with Ben Johnson.
35:01Like, that's – like, I love – 150, that's light work, dude.
35:04This era drives me crazy. But, like, Taylor and Nelson and Buckner are, like, all-time beloved people for me.
35:09I want what's best for them. What's best for them is not this sad, rotting team.
35:14I want them elsewhere. Like, go be free. I love that.
35:16If you love someone, let them go. Yeah. Jonathan Taylor on the Bears is purely fanfic, but can you imagine if that happened?
35:23It made me so happy. Like, God, come on.
35:25He would run for – he would destroy everyone else's value because they would run for – he would run for 2,000
35:31yards just in the rest of the season. They would never call a pass play.
35:35Why would you? They would never call a pass play, and they would win every game.
35:39It would be amazing. He'd be the new Walter Payton in Chicago.
35:43God, that would be sick. The new Gale Sayers.
35:45Why don't – why can't that happen? Like, that would be so fun.
35:48Come on, Bears. That's my fanfic this week, dude.
35:51That's what – I wrote about it in Signals, I think.
35:54Or I talked about it. God, that would be sick.
35:57I think I mentioned it. I was on the couch with Sigmund Blum yesterday, and I think I mentioned it there.
36:02I don't know. I was talking about it a little bit.
36:05But Jonathan Taylor in the Ben Johnson offense, again, with that more, like, downhill running style that he's not wanted to do
36:11with Swift, and he's done with Mononga, and he's wanted to go to with Roshan Johnson.
36:15But if you have Jonathan Taylor doing that, it would blow my mind.
36:19But so to circle back to – so they trade Buckner, and they trade the other defense tackle whose name I don't even remember.
36:25Yeah. Grover Stewart. Grover Stewart. That's right. Then their defense gets worse.
36:28But you're putting Taylor's trade at 10%. You think Downs is an interesting one.
36:32I mean, Quentin Nelson is one you would like to see traded, but it sounds like you think they may not because
36:38they may give Steichen a real chance to prove that he's the coach.
36:42And that this – if they get a new quarterback in next year, maybe they can retool the offense quick enough with
36:48a lot of the current option to be competitive in improving division, but not with a Super Bowl.
36:52Nelson is really hard for me to guess on because I think it's up to him more than anyone else.
36:58And, like, I mean, the reporter asked him, like, do you want to be here long term?
37:02Do you want to sign an extension here? And he said, like, yeah, I love it here.
37:07I met my wife here. Like, I'd love to be here.
37:10Like, if that's his answer behind the scenes, then I think that the trade of him is substantially under 50%.
37:15But, like, it's also possible that that's what he says, you know, in front of the cameras.
37:20And then behind the scenes, he has a different perspective.
37:22DeForest Buckner made his perspective known in front of the cameras.
37:25And so I think he will be on the way out.
37:28And, like, he has a right to his perspective.
37:31This team stinks. So I don't begrudge him at all.
37:33I mean, basically – I didn't hear what he said.
37:36What did he say? He basically said something – I can't remember the exact words, but it was basically just I'm so
37:42sick and tired of the same song and dance every single year was, like, basically what he said.
37:47And, I mean, like, and his face said that, like, basically he was just, like, this place is a shit show.
37:53And I can't believe I'm about to retire in, like, two years.
37:56And this is where I am with my life.
37:58Like, get me out of here. It was, like, not what he said out loud, but that was, like, what his face
38:04said as he, like, just looked exasperated and despondent and depressed.
38:07Well, that's not great for Shane Steichen. I mean, that's rough.
38:10Yeah. I mean, like, it's just – yeah, it was rough.
38:13And I feel bad for him, man. He's, like, 32.
38:16He was coming off of, like, this neck injury that I didn't think he was going to play this year.
38:21And, like, he's been the best player on the team again.
38:24It's just, like – it'd be nice if he wasn't, like, the best player on this defense for seven years straight as
38:30he turns 32 coming off a neck injury. So, I – my fanfic for him is he gets to go back to
38:36San Francisco and finish his career with the Super Bowl ring.
38:39I want what's best for you, Buck. Amazing. Love that.
38:41Yeah. Great discussion. The thing about the Taylor trade, we named a couple of teams, but one of the things that has
38:47been interesting, and as I was thinking about the different trade options – who was the other running back that I'm – Sorry.
38:54He was just asked. I just saw this six minutes ago.
38:57Someone just asked Buckner. They were, like, in light of your, like, comments after the game, like, do you still want to be on the Colts this season?
39:04He said, right now I'm focused on the Vikings.
39:06Oh, that's a good answer. Holy cow, that says a lot without saying it.
39:10The other running back that is a trade candidate right now – He didn't say yes.
39:15He didn't say that. He didn't. But he got as close as you can without getting the headline of saying, I want
39:20off this team and having to get deactivated. It was fantastic.
39:23Saquon Barkley – I was going to say rumors.
39:26Crack Rock, I believe, is where the rumors were coming from.
39:29Anyone who doesn't know the name Crack Rock, he's a high-stakes player.
39:32That's his pseudonym on Twitter. I don't think he actually does crack, but I can't say for sure.
39:37I'm pretty confident he does it. Like, Robert Mays listens to this show and he's going to be like, who's Crack Rock?
39:43Yeah. He – anyway, Crack Rock had a comment that Saquon Barkley may get traded and they may hold him out this
39:49week to see if a trade comes in. Like, hold him out for another week as a result of that.
39:54There was already the comment that he may get traded, but that he may not play this week.
39:59I don't know. We'll find that out, obviously, along the way.
40:02But essentially it was that they would hold him out specifically because they're waiting to see if a trade comes in or whatever.
40:08So he's the other one on the trade market.
40:10The reason I brought up Barkley when you're talking about Taylor as far as these trades are concerned is when you go
40:16around the league and you look at the teams that would be in position to acquire a running back, one of the
40:22things we've talked about a lot schematically since the start of the show in the offseason is how defenses have done the
40:28– taking away the explosives in the pass game, have done the deep shell coverages and all that stuff, and how that's
40:34created more space around the line of scrimmage. We've discussed it a ton with the Chiefs.
40:38The Chiefs are the best example this year. You get Ken Walker.
40:42He's had room to run because of how defenses play them.
40:45And then as a result, Patrick Mahomes has had some more one-on-ones downfield and some of those things.
40:49Now all of his receivers have gotten hurt, but he was hitting Tyquan Thornton, and he's even been able to find Xavier
40:55Worthy some production these last couple of weeks. Jason, those things – the current meta defensively of the foundational element of taking
41:01away explosive passes and then working back to the line of scrimmage when – like that's what I've argued.
41:06This league's an evolution, and it changed in the last half decade, and it's not going back because everyone knows that passing
41:12is more – like everyone argued for years, offenses need to pass more, and then defenses were like, wait, we should defend the pass more.
41:19All the rules are getting easier for routes. We can't hold.
41:22We can't do any of that stuff. Anyway, I'm not going to go into the whole meta shift, but the point is
41:28it used to be when we used to talk about running backs don't matter for years and years and years, still an
41:34era where defenses tried really hard to stop the run, and it did mean that running backs had a hard time differentiating.
41:40And as we shift into this new meta, the argument is elite running backs are now being able to show their differentiating
41:45traits more because they're having some more space and defenses aren't keying on stopping them, and now they have some more space and ability to do that.
41:53And because of that, this is what the Chiefs needed to do.
41:56They needed to find a running back. The best offenses all have one.
41:59So the only team we named really the only teams, you go league wide, the teams that are in position to be
42:05competitive and have winning records in those things. The Bills have James Cook.
42:09The Chiefs have Ken Walker. The Ravens have Derek Henry.
42:12The Steelers are tied with them at the top of the division.
42:15They have Jalen Warren. The Browns, I'm not, they're the most fraudulent 4-2 team of all time.
42:19The Jaguars have Basial Tootin, obviously. The Eagles right up on the Browns this week was the best.
42:24That's as good as anything I've read all year from anyone.
42:27Just incredible stuff. I appreciate it. Really, maybe laugh out loud like multiple times.
42:31They drive me insane. The Vikings, the Packers are getting...
42:34My favorite movie as a kid is Angels in the Outfield.
42:37I watched it like 130 times. So yeah, for anyone who hasn't read it, the idea was the Browns are the opposite
42:42of the Angels in the Outfield situation. There's some kind of Disney movie magic going on here.
42:47There are teams, score on them early, take a lead, and just forget how to play.
42:51The Ravens drove down the field easily and got 10 points on their first two drives.
42:56And they just didn't do anything. And it's not like the Browns started doing anything.
43:00The Browns had no yardage in this game through three quarters.
43:03And then they were still in it. And then the Ravens missed a field goal.
43:07And then Derek Henry fumbled. They gave him a short field.
43:10And the Browns' only touchdown was a 30-yard field.
43:12And then the Browns win at the end. And it's like every single week has been this.
43:17It's been this every... It's like does nobody watch the games with the Browns?
43:20It's like put them away. Some team needs to put them away.
43:24I know the Ravens had a backup quarterback, but it's every...
43:27I was like are they poisoning them somehow? Are these teams getting worse over time?
43:31I don't know what's going on. There's some voodoo happening with the Browns.
43:34But it's the opposite of Angels in the Outfield where it's like yeah, the good guys and all the positive.
43:39It's like no, they employed Deshaun Watson. And then good things happen because they have the worst human being in the world as a quarterback.
43:46Anyway, that was me paraphrasing. But I'm glad you enjoyed that.
43:49But I'm going through the teams. Detroit Lions have Gibbs.
43:52The Packers have Jacobs returning. The Panthers are leading the South.
43:55They have Chuba Hubbard going very well. The Niners are 6-0.
43:58They have Christian McCaffrey obviously. The Seahawks are a good team that have a lot of confusion or running back.
44:03But they have a lot of names and they have guys returning.
44:06I mean, even worse teams. You can go down this list.
44:09The Falcons obviously have Bijan in place. The Texans are maybe a team, you could argue.
44:14But anyway, there are not a ton of teams.
44:16A lot of the good teams have their running back in place.
44:19There are not a ton of teams. Maybe the Giants.
44:22The Giants have so much uncertainty. But there's not a lot of landing spots for running back.
44:26So we'll see. I do think Saquon probably winds up getting traded to one of those teams we were discussing.
44:32Or one of the other ones I just mentioned.
44:34But it is an interesting market. Because the teams that would be out there to acquire a running back as that final piece, by and large have them.
44:42A lot of them do have them in place.
44:44That's part of why their offenses are succeeding. And doing as well as they are.
44:48I think Saquon is more likely to be traded of the two, of him and Taylor.
44:52Just largely because I think that the cost to acquire would be a little bit lower because Saquon's older.
44:58And I just think that the Eagles are like a more ruthless operation.
45:01Like Moe Alleycox was a UDFA signed in Chris Ballard's first draft class.
45:05And Chris Ballard got 10 drafts. And Moe Alleycox outlived the Chris Ballard tenure.
45:08As a third string tight end for almost the entirety of it.
45:12Like we are the most like friends and family sentimental organization in the league.
45:15Like it's just like Taylor will be moved to someone over pays.
45:19What I would be stunned by, absolutely stunned by, is if Jonathan Taylor moves and the reaction isn't like, Wow, I can't
45:24believe what the Colts just got for Jonathan Taylor.
45:27Like someone is going to I think have to give $0.130 on the dollar.
45:31Whereas the Eagles are not sentimental at all. The Eagles are like the most ruthless organization of the league.
45:36If they decide that what's in the best interest of their team is moving Saquon Barkley, then we'll move Saquon Barkley.
45:41They don't like they're just going to. And he's only been on the team for decisions at the time.
45:46Yeah. They acquired him in 2024. He's only been on the team for two and a half years.
45:51Not even two and a half. Anything else on the Colts to wrap up our short long view upside down short view?
45:57We're going to go to that. I got a Mo Ali Cox mentioned because it would have been a shame if I
46:03got through a whole Colts segment somehow. And I didn't mention Mo Ali Cox.
46:07It's yeah, this is this is maybe the most fun status.
46:10We still have. We still have three players remaining on the Colts from Chris Ballard's original draft class.
46:15Two of which were UDFAs. Grover Stewart is one.
46:17It's about to get traded. And then the other two are Mo Ali Cox and punter Rigoberto Sanchez.
46:22And in Chris Ballard's last game, Mo Ali Cox scores a touchdown.
46:25And Rigoberto Sanchez like suffered a debilitating injury on a block punt touchdown that basically ended his tenure.
46:30That was a good place to end our Colts discussion.
46:33The long view. Will these rookies be redraft league winners?
46:35We're going to talk about their profiles. In order to not talk about each of the.
46:40I mean, this is a major inflection point on the season.
46:43It feels like for a lot of these rookies talked about a little bit at the beginning.
46:47There's a bunch of interesting ones. Omar Cooper comes back from IR and immediately looks like a big part of their offense.
46:53Jacoby Lane comes back and me. It looks like a big part of their offense.
46:57Jeremy Bernard has a 12 target game and looks like the biggest part of his respective offense.
47:02Antonio Williams, number one, is out for the year.
47:04Tears his patellar tendon. Terry McLaurin. You have Stephon Diggs looking like a possession receiver, but a very limited one at this
47:10stage for anyone who hasn't watched a ton of the commanders.
47:13Diggs is getting targets. There's limitations there. I think he's going to continue to get targets, but he's not going to be
47:19like an elite number one, at least in my mind.
47:22And then Traylon Burks is a limited player as well.
47:24There's the runway is there for Antonio Williams to be the number one.
47:28I think he may be the most intriguing. We'll go through those guys.
47:31But in order to not spend the whole conversation on them because you're hearing about them on every show this week and
47:37talk about the other guys, we're going to frame this in terms of my four quarters draft philosophy structure.
47:42A quick breakdown on what that is. I know we've talked about it before, but basically it's not equal quarter length.
47:48But you think about it in terms of rounds of a normal draft and it's where there's like inflection points in and tear breaks in fantasy drafts.
47:55And so quarter one is typically and I do it as like a.
47:59A moving target, but it's typically like the pre running back dead zone where you have elite running backs.
48:04You also have elite receivers and any tight end that goes up there is an elite tight end as well.
48:09Brock Bowers and Tray McBride were the two that were drafted.
48:12It's usually by like the middle of round three or in some homings in the middle of round four.
48:17Think about it as the first three rounds. Basically, really, it's round one round two.
48:21It starts to fade a little bit as you get into round three.
48:25But you're talking about the best players in fantasy, the league winners.
48:28But you have to pay league winner prices when you draft them.
48:31But I talk about this concept also in terms of where you're getting value.
48:35So part of the reason of breaking down into these quarters is when you get into quarter two, what you're looking for.
48:41And this is what I've written about since I talked about this is quarter two draft picks that can produce as quarter one players.
48:47You're looking for the breakouts that produce like and then get drafted in that range the next year.
48:52That's what we talk about with dead zone backs.
48:55You usually want to look at young guys that can break out in a way that gets them drafted in quarter one
49:00in the first few rounds the next season. Patial Tootin may be the best example of that that we're undergoing right now.
49:06There's receivers every year. They get drafted in round four, round five, round eight sometimes that then next season go up there.
49:12And a lot of them are young guys. We just saw it.
49:15Well, I mean, I'm thinking back to when Garrett Wilson was a rookie the next year.
49:20He was going up there when Brian Thomas is a rookie the next year.
49:24He was going up there. Ted Rowe McMillan didn't quite get up into quarter one this year, but certainly will be in quarter one.
49:30I would assume next year depends, I guess, a little bit on Jalen Coker and how this offense progresses.
49:35But long-term elite young profiles that hit tend to then get drafted in quarter one the following season.
49:40And so in terms of like an individual redraft season, when you're drafting guys in quarter two, as I refer to it,
49:46which is typically the rest of the single digit rounds, you get to about round nine, sometimes round 10.
49:51I argued this year that there was receivers available into round 10 and 11 in some formats that were quarter two receivers.
49:57One of those was Matthew Golden, was one of the main poster boys I was arguing, was a quarter two guy that
50:03you could pay almost quarter three prices on sometimes.
50:05And he's been producing like a quarter one guy, leads the NFL in air yards, even though he dropped two touchdowns last week.
50:11Been a little bit maddening in terms of the actual realization of the production, but he's been great.
50:16He's been fantastic. You look at weekly ranks, he's being ranked as a top ten wide receiver.
50:21However, the volume is there. The production is there.
50:23Hopefully Josh Jacobs doesn't change that offense too much because both him and Christian Watson look like top ten wide receivers.
50:29It's fantastic. Quarter three is when you start thinking about the wide receiver window was kind of closed.
50:34You're in the dead zone running back range. You're in those handcuff, high upside running backs that are, if things break their
50:40way, they can be league winners from that respect.
50:42They're some of the most fun young running backs.
50:44I'm failing to think of great examples this year, Jacob, but Chuba Hubbard was going back there, but of like young ones.
50:50Corey Krosky Merritt was going in that range. Who have hit from that range?
50:54I'm trying to, yeah, I mean, that's been a terrible range for all positions.
50:58Like it's like Chuba and Matthew Golden. And then like, it looked like Michael Wilson, but that's not quite as great the last one.
51:04And he was going a little higher. He's probably more of a quarter two guy in my mind.
51:09But that's also the range where in a lot of leagues you're hitting your quarterbacks.
51:13You're hitting tight end depth a lot of the time if you didn't take an early tight end.
51:18Like one of the things I talked about is like quarter two.
51:21You're not necessarily looking at tight ends. I guess, but I think that's that party's kind of ending soon now with Jordan
51:27Mason back, but great early season piece for sure.
51:30And so quarter three, it's not even that many rounds.
51:32I typically talk about it as a shorter length of time because a lot of windows close, a lot of positional windows
51:38close and you get, you get into pure flyers.
51:41And so you have to make some tough decisions in quarter three when you're drafting about round nine to round 12 or 13 round 13 plus.
51:48You're into pure flyers basically in any fantasy draft round 14 plus that's quarter four.
51:52So we have four quarters round quarter. One is the elites.
51:55They're the top, you know, 30 players, two and a half rounds.
51:58And you're looking for guys that are the actual quarter one producers.
52:01Quarter two is like everything through round eight, round nine.
52:04You're looking at guys that are meaningful starters in fantasy.
52:06They support the superstars in your roster and in your build.
52:09They give you, you know, small wins, but maybe not big wins to lean on another concept that we've discussed over the years.
52:15Quarter three is more like upside plays. And one of the things I've argued, you know, in quarter two, you still want
52:21to be taking a lot of risk. You want to be swinging for the fences because you need X amount of quarter
52:27one producers is what decides the fantasy. Like we always talk about this league winners win leagues.
52:32You need like probably four or five league winners on your roster and then you win your fantasy league.
52:37And so you would love them to be the guys that you draft at the top, but you'd also love them to
52:43be some of the quarter two guys producing like quarter one guys.
52:46You can also get quarter three guys producing like quarter one guys.
52:49That's part of the point of quarter three is like you still want to be looking for upside.
52:54But in one of the things with quarter three, it's like they're they're also like flex plays.
52:59They're startable. They're potentially providing you depth to quarter two depth issues.
53:02If you took a lot of big swings in quarter two and you missed and you were trying to hit the big
53:08ceilings and you missed, hopefully your quarter three picks are providing some support to your roster, some depth.
53:13So they're they're flex plays with some upside, etc.
53:15And then quarter four is like peer flyers, right?
53:18It's peer flyers. You might be willing to have them on your roster.
53:21You might not even roster them at all. That's going to be the framework that we are going to talk through as we talk about these players.
53:28We're going to talk about the players. We're going to talk about their profiles and all those things.
53:33But we're going to essentially try to move quickly because we want to talk about 20 guys in an hour or so.
53:39That's not going to happen. Probably more like 90 minutes and we may not get to 20 guys, but we do have
53:45a little bit of a hard out this week as we've talked about.
53:48So, Jacob, quarter one producers, superstars, quarter two, starter level, quarter three, flex level, bench depth, bi-week fill-ins with some upside.
53:54These are all rookies. They're all going to have upside.
53:57Quarter four, peer flyers. That's our framework. Let's start with the big week six ones.
54:01Omar Cooper steps into the slot role that Isaiah Williams had been playing.
54:04Comes off IR. He had barely played at all in week one, but he had had a big play in the very limited time he had played.
54:12He has a monster game. He gets a touchdown called back because Tim Patrick is blocking downfield because he doesn't know what to do other than block.
54:19It made no sense. One of the most bizarre plays of the week.
54:22Gino Smith was still five yards behind the line of scrimmage.
54:25He had extended. He wasn't scrambling. And Tim Patrick's like, ah, all-time signals week for you.
54:30I mean, you're like, like reading signals is always, is always a treat.
54:33But like this, this is some of your, you've been doing this for a long time.
54:37This week was, might've been one of your five best.
54:40I appreciate that. That's nice to hear. It is year 10.
54:43I'm getting along on the team. This is like, this is going, this, this week would go on the Mount Rushmore of, of stealing signals weeks.
54:50It was the, the Brown stuff, the Tim Patrick blocking commentary.
54:53Xavier Worthy sprinting out of bounds. Like this had a lot.
54:56What was he doing? This was good stuff. What was he doing?
54:59Why was he accelerating at about, everyone's like, oh, there was under 10 seconds.
55:03He was coaching out of bounds. Yeah. And then he immediately dropped the ball.
55:07He was like, hell yeah. And like, everyone's like, there was 110 seconds.
55:10He was coached to do it. You don't know ball on Twitter.
55:13And it's like, dude, you have to have like, I do, I know enough ball to know you have to have some spatial awareness.
55:20There's have some feel. There's no one around you.
55:22This is part of like what being a football player is.
55:25It's like your coach to do something. And it's like the coach.
55:28I mean, we talked about this last week, right?
55:31With Dan Quinn and like Gene Daniels. Like, what, what can you say?
55:34What can't you say? It's like, you, you can't possibly explain to a football player everything.
55:39Like, you don't know what the play is going to be.
55:42You can't give them explicit instructions. Like go to bounds at this number.
55:45Don't go to bounds at that number. Like keep running.
55:48Like you, you, you're like, you tell the players like, Hey, if once you have the ball, go out of bounds.
55:53And it's like, that obviously means your play has to end out of bounds, but that doesn't mean like as soon as
55:59you cast the ball, you just put in full speed and then bounce.
56:03And then the whole point about the clock and all of that stuff, there's seven seconds still.
56:07They have to kick at like an awkward time because they're out of timeouts.
56:11They didn't even do the throwaway. So then they had to kick off and keep Mitchell as a 27 yard return.
56:17Like you may, I mean, obviously you're probably not going to give a, give up a kick return for a TD, but
56:23you're trying to kick the field goal on the last play of the half.
56:26He makes it, but it's a 50 yarder that could have been a 40 yarder.
56:30He could easily got 10 more yards and taken up a few more seconds.
56:34And people are like, wow, he still made the field goal.
56:37They didn't have any time. Oh, you don't know anything.
56:40Did you watch the game? The idiots, because Harrison Bucker missed a 52 yarder that they needed.
56:44They were up 13 points in the early fourth quarter.
56:47Kickers can miss 50 to 52 yard field goals.
56:50There's, there's an element here of Xavier worthy has to be more.
56:53I'm as to the point about, like I was saying, you were like a fake Juwan Johnson.
56:57Like I'm as inclined to support Xavier worthy as anyone, because I look like an idiot.
57:02I've talked about him for so many years and he, he makes me look bad.
57:06And like, anyway, I'm, I'm doing that thing too, where I'm like, I I'm biased towards him.
57:10And probably I'm biased against him at this point because it's so exhausting telling people to root for Xavier worthy, but like
57:16150% has to have more awareness of the situation.
57:19You can't leave your kicker a 50 yard field goal when you don't need to go make it shorter, go make it easier.
57:25Like I said, he misses a kick from two yards longer in the fourth quarter in a 13 point game.
57:30I think they needed that kick before half. They were only winning by 13.
57:34At that point, they made it 16. Like they needed to put away the charges.
57:38They were not putting them away. The charges hung around.
57:41Fortunately, the charges are absolutely horrible and the charges never did anything to even compete coming back.
57:45But the chiefs, they had a goal line stand at the goal line.
57:49They missed this field goal. You know, multiple opportunity.
57:51Mahomes threw a pick in the end zone. Multiple drives that got down inside the five didn't finish with points at all.
57:57It was not a, it was not a very efficient operation from the chiefs in terms of maximizing points.
58:02And they still, I mean, they still easily won because the chargers are not competitive, but anyway, Xavier worthy was not the point.
58:08I appreciate that you enjoyed. I appreciate the enjoyed signals.
58:11I was, I was talking about the Tim Patrick play.
58:14It waved away. Omar Cooper's potential first career touchdown.
58:16He was wide open. He did a great job to find space on an extended play.
58:20Gino Smith found him touchdown. Later, he still got the real first touchdown on a bomb.
58:25A lot of people have said, look, Christian Gonzalez being on the field, shutting down.
58:29Garrett Wilson is a big part of this. There are people that don't love the Omar Cooper prospect profile.
58:34He was not going crazy high for a first round pick.
58:37In fact, he was going as late as any first round pick wide receiver.
58:40Like since before rookies started getting expensive, like it was wild.
58:43You could take him in the last round in high stakes.
58:46And he looked in week one, like a hit.
58:49And it was like, oh my God, I wish I had Omar Cooper in the last round of every draft.
58:54Then he goes on IR. Now he looks like a hit immediately coming back.
58:58We've gotten whatever it is, 30 routes or something.
59:00And it's like a seven yards per out run.
59:03I mean, it's absurd. Obviously it's a very, very small sample, but he's, he's hitting.
59:07He looks like a player. It's a, it's a 4.6 yards per out run on 29 routes to put an exact number on that.
59:1316.6 yards per target. Pretty good. Pretty good numbers.
59:16Omar Cooper, is he going to produce at that kind of a level the rest of the year?
59:21Is he going to be sort of a quarter two producer, quarter three?
59:24Where do you land with him? I'm feeling optimistic and I'm feeling fun.
59:27So I'll, I'll say quarter two, especially cause I, I mean, there's probably going to be spoiler alert.
59:32There's going to be more Q3s and Q4s on this list than, than Q1s and Q2s.
59:37So I'll, I'll say Q2 for Cooper. I bid aggressively on him wherever I had cash left to spend.
59:42We, uh, our, our main event team with Lawrence, which we did three main event drafts.
59:46Two are not in great shape. That one's in phenomenal shape.
59:49Uh, and we went aggressive on Cooper there. I landed on a couple of solo teams as well.
59:54Um, I think in, on our ship chasing teams, we went pretty aggressive after Cooper.
59:58Yeah. I mean, I, the sample is so small, like you said, and there are definitely reasons why the ceiling could be
60:04limited or, or why the floor could be really volatile.
60:06Like the jets preferred way to play the game would be to just run Braylon Allen like 42 times.
60:12And then once breeze comes back, run them 21 times each.
60:15And, you know, when they're controlling games, that's going to be kind of how they prefer to play.
60:19Gino has been really up and down. He's had some games where he looks like he was at the peak of his Seattle era.
60:26He had other games where he looks completely incompetent.
60:28Um, and so I definitely expect there to be some volatility.
60:31Like I also, based on how they've treated Kenny and Sadiq, would anyone be that shocked if this week coming off this
60:37game, Omar Cooper's like 62% routes and 80 Mitchell is playing 98% of the routes, you know, and maybe even Tim Patrick
60:43is rotating, uh, uh, Omar Cooper off the field every now and again, like, but it's a slot role element here, right?
60:49Or I do think he's, he's just good. I think it's going to be him in the slot and 80 on the outside.
60:55And I think that, you know, the, the two wide receiver set stuff might hurt Cooper.
60:59Cause I still think he probably comes off the field to receiver sets, even if we don't want him to right away,
61:05hopefully over the course of the season, that changes.
61:08Um, but they also aren't running that many two wide receiver sets.
61:11You know, that's part of the reason why we're having the Kenyan Sadiq issues is that even when they didn't have Cooper
61:17and they didn't have AD and they didn't even have Isaiah Williams, they were still being stubborn about kind of running their
61:23personnel groups and not playing full-time 12 to get Sadiq out there next to Mason Taylor.
61:27So I think overall, a lot of optimism for Cooper and like the best case I would make for him is, you
61:33know, these are the first five quarters that we've gotten to play from a first round pick.
61:38You know, he wasn't like a super stud, like level first round pick on the surface.
61:42And obviously he went very late in the first round, but I thought he had a, a profile that to me was
61:48pretty high upside at the very least because his per route production throughout his college career was very strong.
61:53It's just that it took up until the later seasons of his career for him to actually be able to translate that up to full routes.
62:00Like he just didn't play that much early in his college career.
62:03Um, but like to me, that strikes me as a profile that like has floor issues, but has a very high ceiling
62:09because, okay, well, what if, you know, for the first couple of years just didn't come together for him for whatever reason,
62:15maybe his coaches made the wrong choices. I don't know.
62:18And then all of a sudden, by the time we got to see him in this full-time role, he really flourished.
62:23And then we get to see him in the NFL.
62:26He's flourished so far. And he's also a guy who like graded well and was perceived well by the film community as
62:32a separator who also brings a lot of ball and hand skills.
62:35And that's a really fun combination of traits that you have in a player.
62:39So it would not surprise me at all if this is a guy that we view as the type of talent that
62:45we want to draft in like round three, round four, round five for years and years to come.
62:50And like, maybe we were just a little bit too low on him.
62:53I'd also suggest that like his price never really made sense this summer, especially in a basketball context, like there was a
62:59ton of thought around him in August because like he didn't have a ton of buzz in preseason.
63:04And like for one preseason game, he was playing as the wide receiver four, I guess.
63:08And so it felt like people kind of forgot that this is a round one pick that people should be really excited about.
63:14Like he was viewed kind of in a lower tier, but like kind of now that we've seen him look really impressive.
63:20Yeah, I mean, this could just be like a guy that we draft as a top 24, top 36 wide receiver for the next five years.
63:27And it might just be starting now. So I'll say tier two player.
63:31And I think in my opinion, I think he's like, like maybe he won't go down as the best waiver out of the season.
63:37But I think at the time of waivers being open, he is the most intriguing waiver ad so far this year to me.
63:43That's how I feel too. A little counter on the production stuff.
63:46Siegel has references to me before. He had a 207 four touchdown, 207 yard four touchdown game against Indiana State in a 73, 73 to zero win.
63:54His only other hundred yard game last year was against Michigan State, who they beat by 25.
63:58Larry Bird, bro. You think that's a bad performance?
64:01Indiana State shout out. Uh, Michigan State went one and eight in the big 10 last year.
64:05He had a lot of pretty poor games as well.
64:08Two yards against UCLA, no catches in the conference championship against Ohio State.
64:11They played all the way to the national championship.
64:14He had 71 yards in the national title game against Miami, but he had 45 in a TD on three catches in
64:20the quarterfinal, 17 in a TD on three catches in the semifinal against Alabama and Oregon.
64:24So as he's playing these like really good teams and his postseason opportunity, you know, games, he isn't even hitting like 50 yards.
64:30He had a bunch of touchdowns. Um, and, and that was helpful.
64:33He scored almost every week. It seemed like having said that, like Indiana was playing from ahead in every game.
64:39They went undefeated. There's a lot of other elements to that.
64:42They had other decent players. Elijah Surratt. Um, a lot of people pointed out was more productive than Cooper, you know, especially against some of these better teams.
64:49That said, the jets liked him. The NFL liked him.
64:52A lot of evaluators behind the scenes are looking at a lot of different things.
64:56They thought he was a first round pick. There was a lot of discussion that Cooper might go to the jets in
65:02the middle of round one where they ended up taking Sadiq.
65:05And then they traded back into round one to make sure to get him.
65:09They clearly felt like he was a follower at that point to make the move to trade back in and get him.
65:15So like, yeah, some concerns about the profile. You talked about some of the stuff early in the career as well, that
65:21there was a low floor, but to me, we're talking about, uh, we're talking about rookie uncertainty.
65:25I understand the jets are a bad offense. The fact that Sadiq is not really playing is, is meaningful here for me
65:31that they're playing Mason Taylor as a two way guy.
65:34You talked about the routes, Isaiah Williams. So Cooper only ran 4% routes in week one.
65:38He got hurt. Williams ran 77% in that game from there.
65:41He goes 81%, 89%, 94%, 83%. That's in, I mean, you're going over 80% every week as a slot receiver that 80 Mitchell played in week two.
65:48He's he missed from week three on, but. And that's when it got up to 89 and 94% of those things, but
65:54he was at 81% Williams in week two. He was at 77 in week one.
65:58Even is a very strong number for a slot receiver.
66:01You part of the issue with the slot receivers is sometimes they can get down to like the 65% or 60% to be up around 80%.
66:08It's very solid at week five. He was at 83% with Tim Patrick at 94% fully ingrained now into the 80 Mitchell role.
66:14Last week, Omar Cooper returned to a 79% roles.
66:16You put your role. Yeah. Yeah. Very much. And that's, and that's, that's what I'm getting at is Omar Cooper at 79% in his first game.
66:23I don't really share your concerns about, or I don't know that there were major concerns.
66:28You said it kind of could happen, but 80 Mitchell's return impacting Cooper.
66:31I don't think it's going to impact his route rate very much based on those numbers and how much Isaiah Williams was playing.
66:37And he's, this is a first round player who's good.
66:40Who's doing good things. Why would they take Omar Cooper?
66:43Why would they limit Omar Cooper when they weren't even limiting Isaiah Williams?
66:46They were not as healthy to be clear, but I just don't think there's a real risk there.
66:51It could come down a little, but I don't think it's going to be a major risk on Cooper's playing time.
66:57And then as far as 80 Mitchell's skill is concerned, that gets overstated.
67:00He's really good at separating. He's not been efficient.
67:03Omar Cooper has shown us in a very small sample, the ball in hand that you talked about check the separation ability
67:09on that extended play that got called back as Tim Patrick decided to block downfield check.
67:13Um, and, and, and other times he's shown some ability to get open and an ability to win downfield on that bomb touchdown.
67:19If you're going to win at every depth and if you're going to win it before and after the catch point in
67:25a 20 something route sample, you're going to show me all of that.
67:28And your first round pick that a team traded back into the first round to select.
67:33If I go back to draft season, I said this to you when we were going through our, our waivers and why I wanted to bet on him.
67:40I'm taking that guy in like round seven. That's a really strong at like minimum.
67:44That's a really strong rookie profile that I want to bet on.
67:47If I knew all of that, that that was going to translate for a rookie first rounder, a late first rounder.
67:53The comparison I made somewhere was it's a little bit like rookie years.
67:57They flowers to me. I'm trying to think of late first round guys as opposed to early first round guys.
68:02Cause it really is kind of different draft capital at that point.
68:05You don't want to compare them to like a Malik neighbors or something like, yeah, I mean, yeah, he was getting drafted
68:11and redrafted the tooth return and he hit on that, but like he was also a superstar and like immediately a superstar.
68:17And we knew that, but Omar Cooper has a late first round pick.
68:21Maybe it's a little bit like Zay flowers in terms of ball in hand, ability to win at all depths, you know,
68:26up, down, uh, shallow, shallow, deep, et cetera. I don't think he's as good as current version of Zay flowers who was
68:32going nuclear right now, but you can look back at rookie years, a flowers and the development of for rookie flowers.
68:38If Omar Cooper could be that kind of a player early in his career, I mean, even though the jets aren't great,
68:44it's not going to be, you're working off of Garrett Wilson.
68:47One of the other comparisons I made in signals is when you're the clear number two, when you're the, because if he hits, I think he's meaningfully better.
68:54We know that AD Mitchell is not an efficient player.
68:57We know we can get open. We know he's not an efficient player.
69:01And, and Kenyon Sadiq is not being utilized as much as maybe he should be.
69:05He's going to be better than Mason Taylor and all that stuff.
69:08There may be some limitations to his role, but I would think that Omar Cooper, if he hits could be the clear,
69:14like second guy, uh, two other comparisons I made in signals or elsewhere or thought about, or I don't even know if I've made them, whatever.
69:21My brain's been all over the place this week.
69:23Uh, Calvin Ridley's rookie year feels a little bit like when Calvin Ridley hit immediately and he's the same kind of undersized
69:29player, like similar player can win vertical, can do a lot of different things alongside Julio Jones.
69:34Cal really had a great rookie year. Um, and then, um, now I lost the other Calvin really was the second one that came to mind.
69:41The other one was more notable. Oh no, I was going to make, this isn't a young player.
69:45I was going to make the, the Malik neighbors, Isaiah likely point, which is like when you're the clear number two, when
69:51you're the other go-to guy, you, I understand the point about Christian Gonzalez taking away Garrett Wilson, but Omar Cooper thrived in that spot.
69:58That's good. It's good to be the guy that can thrive in that spot.
70:02Garrett Wilson's going to have his production too, but when he gets taken away a little bit in certain schemes, then you go to Cooper.
70:08We've seen it with AD Mitchell already in this offense that he was the, and Juno Smith's kind of a first read guy.
70:14He was going to Mitchell, but I think Mitchell from an efficiency standpoint and right now from a health standpoint, isn't going
70:20to be reliable enough that like you think about how this plays out.
70:24You think about Omar Cooper as the guy that actually becomes the first to read when the pre-snap read is not to Garrett Wilson.
70:30And so that's kind of, that's how I've described Isaiah likely is you're in a great spot here.
70:35You're the clear number two and you have an elite number one.
70:38Garrett Wilson's not Malik neighbors, but it's the same similar kind of structure where like you're, you're losing some volume to a really star number one.
70:45But if you're the clear number two, if you're that guy, you can work off of that.
70:50That's the Calvin Ridley, Julio Jones rookie year point as well.
70:53So I'm with you, Omar Cooper to me. And the point I was making to you is you don't get a lot
70:59of rookies off the waiver wire that are better than around seven redraft.
71:02If I could go back, I'm not saying, I'm not saying if I was drafting from now, but I guess I kind
71:08of am, but I'm saying like how we value these profiles.
71:11A first round rookie got traded up for, we know he's in a role.
71:15We think he's going to run 80% plus routes and we think he's going to be efficient and good.
71:20It's like McKay Lemon. It's what I thought McKay Lemon was coming in.
71:23I think McKay Lemon's a better prospect. So there's some, there's some discussion there, but I have more certainty right now with
71:29Omar Cooper than you get to have in August that he's good.
71:33I mean, I'm not certain about it, but I have more certainty.
71:36I have more information. So I'm pretty optimistic about Omar Cooper and where he's at.
71:40And I think he was worth the bids. A lot of people didn't seem to go very high on him.
71:45I got him everywhere. I have a lot of exposure.
71:48I was surprised people didn't go so high on him.
71:51I got a, I got a lot of, I mean, there's a lot of leagues right in him and off money.
71:56Cause I tend to be pretty aggressive and usually I think that that is the right strategy.
72:01This, this year it has probably been a better strategy to save your cash.
72:05Um, but yeah, I, I was very aggressive wherever I had the money to get him and I got him pretty much
72:10wherever I had the capacity to make like a major, major bid on him.
72:14I would agree. I was very surprised that people weren't more excited about like a round one rookie who's been nothing but awesome and limited opportunities.
72:21Why wouldn't we be pumped about that? And then, um, we won't talk about competition.
72:25The other guy that I got in like literally every league, I was like, I had a feeling this was going to
72:31happen throughout the day because I, I played so many different FPC leagues with so many different co-managers.
72:36I have leagues few with Lawrence. I have leagues with some of the fancy points guys.
72:40I have leagues with all the ship chasing guys.
72:43I have some solo leagues, um, leagues Ron and Liam.
72:45And like in every single discussion of every conceptual league that I have, like where I wanted to put Travis Hunter in
72:51the pecking order, if it's not where my co-managers wanted to put Travis Hunter in the pecking order.
72:56And so then it became clear to me over the course of the day that like, oh, I'm good.
73:01I'm going to get a lot of Travis Hunter.
73:04I still don't have anything for expectation. I went from not owning a single share of Travis Hunter in the FFPC to
73:10having, um, 57% exposure of Travis Hunter. Well, and then my conversations with you got me on the impression that he was
73:15going to, I'm blaming you for this, that he was going to be more interesting for people than he was.
73:21And I ended up, it was just me. You wanted to put like big bids on him and I had to talk you down to like 50 bucks.
73:28I ended up overbuying him for like 30 to 50 bucks on a lot of leagues too.
73:33I have a ton of exposure to Hunter now too.
73:36And it was money that I didn't want. I didn't need to spend.
73:39Like I bought him down after talking to you, but I was still bidding like 50 bucks everywhere and I got him uncontested.
73:45And then there was, I'm glad my feedback got your bids down, but your feedback got mine up.
73:50Yeah. It worked out better. Yeah. Well, you know, we'll, we'll all be happy when he's, when he's killing it over the second half of the season.
73:57Uh, but, uh, I mean, there was, there were leagues where like, I didn't have any money left.
74:02There was leads where I had like $32 left.
74:05So all I did was just do like a string of $1 bids.
74:08And I was still getting them for $1 and half of those leagues.
74:12So I got them uncontested in some leagues where, yeah, I'm, I'm low on money too, but I, I, the, the, the
74:185k league I do with Leonie and Pat and Pete, I put in the waivers and, um, we hit on Cooper and,
74:23um, I had a contingent bid on, on for Cooper for 300.
74:27I had a contingent bid on Kanata mumfield for a hundred dollars that I should not have had that high.
74:32It was a bad bid and he got, went uncontested.
74:35And then I got Hunter for like 30 bucks.
74:37I was also higher on mumfield than a lot of my co-managers.
74:40I think that was your fault too. But I had mumfield behind Hunter in most of them.
74:45So like, I wish I had swapped the order.
74:47Cause I normally, I don't ever think about swapping my order of bids.
74:51Cause I'm just like, like other managers will level up my exposures for me.
74:55You know, it's like sometimes like, but it's like, since I was never getting outbid on Hunter, cause no one else cared at all.
75:01I just like, I feel like I got like one or two shares of mumfield when I probably wanted to get like six.
75:07Like I actually really like the play there, but I think they're going to trade for a receiver.
75:12I don't know. I think mumfield is a short-term play.
75:15If you need a short-term starter, there's some intrigue, but like I'm kind of, I got a lot of mumfield too.
75:20And I'm kind of, that's the one that I'm actually more mad about.
75:24I think I got Hunter for like 30 bucks in this 5k league, but getting mumfield and Hunter for 130 bucks combined uncontested.
75:30Like I didn't expect that based on some of the conversations.
75:33I thought that we'd get overbid on some of these and with the Cooper $300 bid and we had three drops and
75:39we hit all of like some of the top bids.
75:42We were left to like $27. I spent like 450 bucks or more.
75:45And it's like, whoops, that's not the way you want to navigate your waivers.
75:49Uh, kind of a big miss. Well, we, we got, we got everybody in our league with Lawrence.
75:54We had, we had, we were the big stack.
75:56We went all in and we got, we got our top three guys.
76:00That's right. On that one, we're down to like 40 bucks remaining.
76:03You, I think you want to save at least a little bit more than that when, you know, it's week six.
76:09But anyway, this is a big, this is a big waiver week.
76:12You do want to use your fab early. Like that is, that is definitely a strategic perspective, but yeah, Hunter and Mumfield,
76:18very interesting guys this week as well. We're kind of sticking to the rookies.
76:21We agree. Cooper is more of a quarter two type with some, some potential quarter one.
76:26I mean the jets offense and Garrett Wilson kind of limits you from being like a quarter one true producer, maybe even Sadiq to a lesser extent.
76:33We'll talk about Sadiq in a minute. Um, Antonio Williams is the next really interesting one to discuss Terry McLaurin, torn patellar tendon.
76:39I talked, I kind of gave my take already digs.
76:42I think is limited. I think he's fine, but I think he's a role player at this point.
76:47Antonio Williams has looked awesome. He had an 86 yard touchdown removed for, uh, whatever legal shift or something.
76:52It didn't affect the play in that London game.
76:54That would be making his numbers look way better.
76:57If he had that on the ledger, he's otherwise looked really good.
77:00He's gotten open. He's made plays. He had a nice little stretch at the end of week one before Jane Daniels got
77:06hurt in week two to help set up the, uh, commanders to almost beat the Eagles there in week one.
77:11It seems like he's going to have to play.
77:14It seems like he's going to have to be the ceiling option.
77:17He was less available in some of these FFPC stuff, but to me, he was where available.
77:21Somebody to bid on up there with Cooper. He was, you said we got our top three bids.
77:26It was Cooper and Williams. And then I can't remember the other one.
77:30Tyron Tracy, I think was the other one. Yeah.
77:32So we didn't even have Hunter in our top three or mum fielder.
77:36Any of those guys, we got Cooper, Antonio Williams and Tracy in that one.
77:39I feel much better about those wins in that on that team.
77:43Cooper and Williams to me were the, they're available because Jeremy Bernard's mostly already rostered.
77:47These, these two were, were the really intriguing ones.
77:49I'm going to say for Williams quarter two again, I think it's another, you don't usually get these sort of round seven
77:55ish type of plays, but I, I don't know that I would necessarily take them around seven, but you're talking about a
78:01day two receiver who now is in a very thin wide receiver room with, I think Jane Daniels, Jane Daniels got a lot of flack.
78:08I saw in your writeup, you were like, he's getting a bunch of flack.
78:11He's still producing. I'd take it a step further.
78:14I think the flack is, is misguided. I think there's, I think Troy Aikman's points about him not pushing it downfield were
78:20fair, but to the point that we discussed with the QB school thing with Bo Nix a couple of weeks ago, and
78:26I think the Bo Nix stuff, like it's, it's looked even worse since.
78:29And I think it was a fair criticism and I was probably wrong on that, but I do think there's a reason
78:35that some of these teams are doing this stuff.
78:37There's a success rate element to these drives. If you're making the point, Troy Aikman over and over and over again on
78:43the broadcast that he's, he's turning down the longer developing routes down the field to take quicker throws underneath, but they're like,
78:49while they're driving and scoring touchdowns and getting back in that game, they were a fourth down throw to the end zone
78:55away from upsetting an undefeated team on the road when their number one wide receiver got injured in the first half.
79:01Why are you not spending any time explaining that every time he has a wide open receiver, he's hitting him dead on for yak.
79:07Like every time they did a sprint out to, to Chigo Conquo, he's throwing the football dead on accurate.
79:12Jayden Daniels is a good thrower of the football when he has time in the pocket.
79:17I understand he bailed out of some clean pockets at times.
79:20He does do some of that stuff. I'm not saying he's perfect, but I think there is way too much made of
79:25the limitations or there was in that game and people.
79:28And then like Dan Olovsky had the cryptic tweet of, um, Oh, the Jane Daniels film, my God, or whatever.
79:33Like, yeah, he bails out of some clean pockets.
79:36He turned down some downfield stuff, but for successful underneath throws that kept them on, on, on, um, on whatever in front of the sticks or whatever.
79:43And for the long, the downfield stuff to develop, if you're constantly big play hunting, it's a style of play.
79:49You will eventually take a sack when your offensive line is not that great.
79:52You may also eventually throw into some coverage because defenses are baiting in different ways.
79:56You sent me a really funny and really interesting, um, clip about Travis Hunter baiting, uh, CJ Stroud with a fake stumble
80:02in the end zone on that interception in that London game.
80:05We're seeing a lot of these downfield, uh, throwers, quarterbacks that are, that are efficient, still mixing in some picks.
80:11We saw, uh, the best game was the Cowboys Packers, uh, deck through.
80:14Well, I thought for most of that game, but there's a couple plays where it's like the defenses is understanding what he's
80:20trying to do with the vertical passing. And, and he throws two picks and he throws another one that could have been
80:26a pick, but he gets bailed out of, uh, roughing the passer on the flip side.
80:30Jordan loves same thing. Vertical attacking offense throws one pick and throws another one that gets picked, but they don't get the second foot down.
80:37There could have been five interceptions that game. And I'd argue both of those offenses are willing to take those interceptions as
80:43a trade-off so they can continue to throw vertically and aggressively the ways that they are.
80:47But part of what defenses are doing when you do that constant vertical and aggressive downfield passing is they're able to get one here and there.
80:54They're able to get a pick. You do have a little bit of that trade-off.
80:58We've seen it with, I mean, like Justin Herbert's not a good example, but he's thrown a lot of bad picks.
81:04Um, we saw it in the Texans-Jeggs game. We saw the, the Stroud pick.
81:08We saw Lawrence throw a pick in the end zone.
81:10It gets a little more condensed in the, in the red zone.
81:13We've seen Mahomes throw some picks. We've seen Purdy throw.
81:16I don't know if he's thrown as many this year.
81:19Purdy's playing incredible, but at the end of last year, Purdy was playing great and his interception rate was very high despite
81:25it, but he was still playing very well. And it was obviously worthwhile.
81:28His EPA and everything was still very strong with the interceptions.
81:31The point is that's part of the modern NFL.
81:34If you want to be aggressive and throw downfield, you're going to, you're going to take on risk.
81:38So when some of these guys are turning those down, down those throws in situations where they're still putting together successful drives,
81:44I do think it's an, it's an, it's an old school football guy extension point that I think is not right.
81:50I think I'm like, I, I, I, you know, I don't like disagreeing with Troy Aikman.
81:54I don't like disagreeing with JTO Sullivan, but I think they are missing an element of Jayden Daniels is still leading successful drives on the road.
82:01And you're, and you're criticizing that he's not getting bigger plays.
82:04And I think if he's big play hunting with a bad offensive line, he's bringing in risk that he, the way that
82:10he was running the offense was, was taking out.
82:13And the risk is also that you get to, you take a big sack, which is a major debilitating thing.
82:18When defenses are trying to take away explosive plays, you get into a second along or third along, you're done in a
82:24lot of these series playing with an elbow that could explode at any, any moment.
82:28That's another huge part of it. Even additional risk for him.
82:31Yeah. So anyway, I think the team, it's not a matter of just being selfish.
82:35It's, it's, it's also a team aspect of if he does take a sack and he re injures the elbow in a
82:41way that causes him to miss substantial time. The team is way worse once again for, for being without his presence.
82:46So I, I completely agree with you. I, I just, I, just before I kick it to you, I just want to,
82:52I want to square one thought because I was saying with Dak and love, you need to push vertically.
82:57And I think you need to push vertically. And I love that Lawrence is doing it.
83:02And I love that Stroud's doing it. And I love the, you have to do it.
83:06I'm not saying that you want to be underneath.
83:08I am saying that you don't push vertically in every situation at the expense of like seeing what's in front of you
83:14with some of the well-structured drives that some of these teams, like I just, I thought the criticism of Daniels was unfair
83:20in that, in that particular spot when they're having successful drive.
83:23They also had a successful first half drive that they got stopped at the goal line, you know, on a fourth and
83:29gold down in, in the red zone. I understand that there were some throws available down the field, but to your point
83:35as well, like if he takes some hits, it's not good for the offense either.
83:39They built an offense that succeeded and was good and, and, and well-structured.
83:43And when he does have clean open throws, he makes them like that was the part of it that I'm a little,
83:48like, I understand the quarterback skill stuff. I don't know as well as Aikman and O'Sullivan.
83:53Those guys have forgotten more than I've ever known.
83:55And so the points of like checking, like taking down the, or taking the check down and, and, and bypassing the, the, the vertical routes.
84:02And some of those, like Aikman was shown in the end zone camera and where like Daniels is throwing underneath and as
84:08he's throwing, there's a guy coming free on a dig over the middle.
84:11And you're like, that guy's wide open. Like you would want him to be throwing some of those.
84:16I understand it, but I do think you can also give Daniels the, the, um, and then, then it became a whole
84:22criticism of like his film was bad in that game.
84:25And the point is like, what were the, like, I know process over results, but like, what were the results in that game?
84:31Because I know we can rip those throws down the field.
84:34He shows them when he needs to, but anytime like the, the chick plays and anytime they were doing the underneath stuff,
84:40there was a, there was catching run. There was yak ability that the timing is there when, when he does throw from
84:46clean pockets, he puts the ball where it needs to be.
84:49This is a good passer of the football. And I think like that gets missed that gets missed with some of the
84:55like playmaking aspects when they get criticized. This is not a playmaking quarterback.
84:58That doesn't know how to play quarterback. He's a very accurate and very good passer of the football.
85:03I'm like, put some respect on Jane Daniels name for my opinion anyway, but sorry, I'll let you chime in now.
85:08Yeah, no, I just, I mean, I agree and I, I'll, I'll, I'll be sure, but I, yeah, I talked about a
85:14more, like I was doing a really like rapid fire piece this week.
85:18And so I really only talked about the production, but I've, I've written about Daniels plenty the summer and into the season, especially when he got hurt.
85:25And there was a lot of negative discourse around his NFL future.
85:28And I've, I've made an impassioned case that I think he is like a very good real life quarterback.
85:33There's a segment of people that were out on Daniels as a prospect and that like continue to doubt him and did
85:39not give him, in my opinion, enough credit for his rookie season.
85:43I thought it was really bizarre, kind of the way that he was talked about coming off that rookie season.
85:48I mean, he basically dragged this roster to the NFC championship game.
85:51And a lot of people did not like include him in like top 10 quarterback polls and stuff after that season.
85:57I, I thought he was treated quite differently than most quarterbacks who got similar results.
86:01Um, and then like the way he's been talked about at times this year of like, oh, like is he their franchise quarterback?
86:07Do they need to move on from it? It's, it's, it's, I mean, who knows, but like, it's just so completely divorced
86:13from what I view Jane Daniels as. Um, and it reminds me, I mean, I think Daniels is way better than this
86:19guy, but it reminds me a lot of the way that dart has been discussed at times in his career too, where
86:25he was a prospect that I thought was really underrated that people said, no, like his, you know, his production's fake because
86:31it comes in the offense and he's just hitting a lot of these free release throws or whatever.
86:36He's not making the NFL plays. And then like, he actually is like in reasonably effective in the NFL, despite like no weapons and an injured offensive line.
86:43And it was like the same discourse again. It was like, no, well, it's not like, it's not, it's like people will
86:49talk about like unethical production or whatever, as though there's like an ethic to, to quarterbacking.
86:53Um, and I, I, it's just, I don't know.
86:56It's not for me. I just, to me, like there's something to it, I suppose, but I feel like there is a
87:02large segment of NFL commentators or football commentators who like tend to just give out a lot of style points about like
87:08how you manufacture your production in a way that I think is like to some degree, there might be something to a lot of degree.
87:14There might be something to it in the context of like trying to separate quarterback play from scheme or trying to view
87:20like, okay, which quarterbacks are producing in a way that could be, um, effective kind of like, regardless of game script.
87:26Like are, are there some quarterbacks who are just able to front run and play with a lead and with favorable box
87:32counts and with like a heavy run rate versus who's able to succeed in a drop back scenario?
87:37All that stuff I think has some, has some merit to it.
87:40But like, Gene Daniels just threw 40 pass attempts in this game.
87:43They were behind the entire time. You know, like I, whether or not this is like ethical quarterbacking to people, he had
87:49league average, uh, EPA was 16th in, in EPA per drop back this week, which is average.
87:53That's not amazing, but it's average. And, uh, in the context of some of the weapons and losing his number one wide
87:59receiver early in the game, you lose your number one vertical receiver.
88:03That's going to be a problem. The entire game is like, I think actually pretty fair.
88:07And then, uh, he was number one among all quarterbacks this week and completion percentage over expectation.
88:11So it's not like he's just like only completion hunting.
88:14He's like accurately delivering the ball, you know, unethically, um, but like effectively.
88:18And then, you know, he threw for 300 yards on, on, on 40 pass attempts, two touchdowns, no picks.
88:23Like, I, I just like, I just feel like this guy is like very consistently leads the league in like highly efficient,
88:29successful games, or I guess not successful, they didn't win, but like efficient games that are like average or sometimes well above
88:35average in like results based metrics that then people like just discount because they don't like the way that he accumulates them.
88:40Like, I, I don't have a problem. I mean, was, was Tom Brady unethical?
88:44Like, I mean, I don't know a lot of check downs.
88:47It's, it's really bizarre to me how certain quarterbacks get tagged with this.
88:51I think it's wrong with Jaden Daniels, but, um, and I think it's like very different than like the Bo Nix game
88:57the other week where like their offense barely scored any points and like they didn't move the ball very effectively.
89:02I mean, I know they only score 17 points in this game, but they moved the ball a lot more effectively than that.
89:08They had a, a fourth down and a lot of people criticized Jaden Daniels for throwing it away on a fourth down.
89:14That's a fair criticism. Um, he didn't, he didn't like make that play competitive enough.
89:18And then they, they obviously have the drive at the end of the game where they need six points.
89:23And so they turned the ball over and downs once, and then they, um, don't get in the end zone the second time.
89:29Like I, that I can anyways, but my, my point is the same as yours, which is that I, I don't, I view Jaden Daniels very positively.
89:37I think he gets a ton of flack. I think it's a lot of people, frankly, who didn't like him enough as
89:43a prospect who are kind of just stuck on take lock around him or just don't like the aesthetics of how he
89:48plays the game in ways that I don't fully understand.
89:51I don't think they match with his results. I don't think someone who's holding back production.
89:55If you're looking at an Antonio Williams, um, and before we go to that, Antonio Williams.
90:00Yeah. Let's go to, let's go to Williams in a sec.
90:03But, um, I, I just wanted to, cause I said a lot of stuff too.
90:07I agree with a lot of what you said, but a lot of what you said also helped me want to articulate
90:13kind of the point I was making, which the next point is a great one.
90:17I was trying to delineate there. Like I was wrong on Nick's.
90:20Like if you want to do the unethical quarterbacking thing, then make it about Bo Nix.
90:24Like that's fine. He's not actually throwing the ball vertically.
90:27Jaden Daniels has shown us an ability to attack vertically to your point about Jackson dart.
90:31That's another guy that has been able to throw vertically when needed.
90:34So when they're doing something different than that, it's not to me, it's not unethical.
90:38It's like, they're just doing something different for a variety of reasons.
90:42And then the other point I want to make is like, I don't think Jane Daniels was perfect in this game.
90:47The point I was being critical of other people is that there's other people like Dorlovsky tweet was like acting like it was a horrible game on film.
90:55And I'm like, this guy completed 75% of his passes.
90:57I know they were underneath. I know you're talking about like the EPA wasn't great and stuff on a per play basis,
91:03but he was, yeah, the success rate was high enough that like when you're doing it that way, the per play basis,
91:09it's not going to be high because you're not big game hunting for the big plays, but the success rate has to be good enough to justify it.
91:17And it was. And the part of that, that I think is so interesting is you're playing the five and Oh San
91:23Francisco 49ers on the road and you have a terrible defense as well.
91:26They're getting beat. They, they, they, they turn the ball over, um, uh, in the, in the red zone at the 13
91:32on that first drive and Daniels threw the ball away on a fourth down and everyone criticizes that whatever that it's 20 to three at half.
91:39They punt on the first drive of the second half and the Niners get a field goal.
91:44It's now 23 to three, six minutes in the third quarter, Jane Daniels leads, whatever it is, a very long drive, uh, an 11 play drive.
91:51And everyone was like, Oh, you should be taking more big game hunting.
91:54Part of what that did was, I mean, I understand this whole point of like, you know, momentum, whatever, blah, blah, blah.
92:00Well, it kept the, it kept Brock party on the sideline for a long time.
92:04Birdie comes, pretty comes back and they get a three and out parties previous two drives, by the way, 14 and 11 plays.
92:10They had had one three and out in their first six drives.
92:14They get a three and out. I think some of that has to do with the fact that the commanders were able
92:19to put together a five minute, 42nd drive. The commanders get the ball back.
92:23They have another 10 play 80 yard drive. There's a little bit more on a, on a yard per play basis on that one.
92:30However, um, and they get another touchdown. They make it 23 to 17 with about 10 minutes left.
92:34They get another three and out after that. Now I'm not saying just because they kept the ball for so long, that's
92:40why the three and outs happened or that this was optimal or whatever.
92:44When you're down 23 to three, you do probably want to try to score.
92:48But my point is like, I don't think when you're playing the Niners who, and the other part of this is people
92:54have been saying the Niners defense has been playing very effectively.
92:56So that's part of why I think, you know, the big game, like the lack of big gang hunting, like you're, you're
93:02putting yourself in a tough spot against a good defense, they were able to put together long drives, keep the night, like
93:08not get into a haymaker battle with the Niners.
93:11Whose offense has been awesome and has been winning all of those keep the Niners offense actually off the field effectively.
93:16And they get the ball back. Now, again, I'm not trying to give Daniel's credit for the three and outs.
93:22Some of that is on the defense, et cetera.
93:24But I actually think like the way to win this game was to shorten it and maximize your possessions.
93:29And they were effectively doing that. And as I'm watching the game, I'm like, this is actually awesome.
93:34From a game management perspective, they're doing some good stuff.
93:37They're playing, they're the underdogs. They're doing the, like, um, the, the NCAA, like March Madness thing where they're like, we're actually
93:43running down the shot clock, but then shooting a bunch of threes.
93:46And we're like, we're trying game as a one team.
93:49If they don't call a hold on Jeremy McNichols, they would have taken the lead in this game or they didn't call, you know what I mean?
93:56They didn't call the hold on McNichols. They called the hold that took away a 31 yard touchdown run.
94:01It would have put them up 24, 23. Probably Brock Purdy leads them back for a game winning circle, but they would
94:07have been leading in the fourth quarter of this game against a Superbowl favorite.
94:11Like that's right. It was all the rest of performance on the road when they were down 23 to three, when this
94:17really started happening, that's really when Aikman was going off on Daniels about taking the checkdowns.
94:21I'm like, this is the best that offense has looked all day.
94:24They're putting together these long drives. They're getting the ball back.
94:27They're continuing to stack touchdown drives when they need them.
94:30They're shortening the game. They're shortening the amount of time their defense is on the field.
94:34And Brock Purdy is able to extend the lead against them.
94:37And they get to a position where they have a fourth and three in the red zone at the two minute warning.
94:43Daniels ends up throwing to the end zone and completed trailing Burks.
94:46You can criticize a lot of things. You can criticize that particular throw, that it was a little high.
94:51You can say that he didn't need to throw that far to the end zone.
94:55He had a shorter throw on the play. You talked about the counter of arguably Jeremy Nichols' touchdown run.
95:00That ended up happening with about four minutes left.
95:03Regardless of all of that stuff, my point is there's been a little bit of an overwhelming negativity around Jane Daniels in
95:09a week where, again, to your point, he's playing with an injured elbow, still kind of getting used to the limitations of that.
95:15And his number one receiver tore his patellar. And it's a receiving core that's otherwise not very talented.
95:20He's operating with Traylon Burks, a rookie in Antonio Williams, and Stephon Diggs, who's quite old, and Chigakonkwo, and getting by.
95:25You want to talk about ethical quarterbacking with no offensive line.
95:28Their top run game is Rashad White. Zero run game.
95:31No offensive line. I thought it was one of the most competitive games from a quarterback of the whole season.
95:36And everyone's out here saying he's not being competitive.
95:39He's bailing out of pockets, and he's throwing too short.
95:41It's like, man, why are you not giving me any credit for the plays where he's doing, like you said to Tom Brady, the checkdowns and stuff.
95:49I don't want to get into a racial thing.
95:51I, honest to God, think there was a little bit of like, specifically with the, because I've named specific names.
95:56But when a black quarterback does this, we're not going to give him credit for it?
96:01When he checks down a bunch and when he is taking small gains?
96:04We talk about game managers and smart white quarterbacks all the time.
96:08I'm sorry. Like, it frustrated me to watch. I'm sitting there watching, like, what I think is good quarterback play, given all the circumstances with very little help.
96:15And they're like, we're just constantly saying he should be trying to do more than he's doing when he's actually managing this game very well.
96:22And the commanders are getting back in this game.
96:24The story of that game was how well the commanders got back into it.
96:28It was completely incongruent with what I was watching, in my opinion.
96:31I thought Jaden Daniels played very competitively, very good.
96:34I don't know. Sorry. That's a long view take.
96:36But I'm with you on this tangent. It has been, the way that Jaden Daniels has been talked about over the last
96:42couple of weeks, like, if people want to criticize the situational awareness on, like, the one-fourth down play this week or the
96:48play in overtime last week, that's fair game. I feel like that and people's priors and other factors have colored an overall
96:54perception of Jaden Daniels as just playing bad quarterback on a down-to-down basis that is completely divorced from what I'm watching.
96:59And I'm glad that it's divorced from what you're watching as well, because I'm on the same page with that.
97:05Yeah, it's divorced. And it's, again, bringing in the racial thing is, I understand that that gets people really turned up.
97:10I'm just saying it because I do think the specific way he was playing for some other quarterbacks, you brought up the Tom Brady thing.
97:17It does get praised. And that's what's weird to me.
97:20I don't say that's, I'm not saying that's the racial part.
97:23I think the reason, the disconnect here was not, I don't think, a racial one.
97:27I think the disconnect was what you're saying, which is there's this idea of like, what is ethical quarterbacking and the specific style of play?
97:33And if I don't see it played a very specific way, I have a, what, what I think the mistake was here
97:39was not seeing what you're seeing, which is that these offenses are moving the ball or this particular offense is moving the
97:45ball and finding success, even the way that they're playing.
97:48And you're, you're, you're, you're pigeonholing a point that you think is important.
97:51That is not actually fitting. What's that? What's what's what's happening in the moment that you're like, you're watching the game was,
97:57was the, it's, it's demanding quarterback be played a very specific type of way.
98:01Like you said, which is not strictly a racial point.
98:04I just want to be clear about that. And I don't think that's actually, I mean, like you could say there are
98:10some undertones, but I don't think that's actually probably what the undertones were.
98:13I think it's far more about a specific style of quarterbacking that, that we're looking for.
98:18We're looking for a specific pocket passer who doesn't bail out of clean pockets, steps up, throws vertically, does the, you know,
98:23when there's an option downfield and I, and I've criticized quarterbacks for years for missing opportunities vertically.
98:28And there were opportunities in this game that Aikman highlighted well, that Daniels would have liked to have back.
98:33I'm sure when Daniels looks at it on film, he would admit it.
98:37And his coaches would admit it. I don't think everything that he did was perfect in this game at all.
98:42The point is he was up against it. And, and I think competing and playing well, and they were from like a
98:48game theory standpoint, they are navigating the second half very well.
98:51And so it just, the, it was, it was a, um, a narrative fit to a specific expectation of quarterbacking play that I didn't think was fair.
98:58It would have been fair on bone X. It would have been fair on a lot of people that have played that way.
99:04I don't think it was fair at all in this situation for Jane Daniels ended up coming up short, but if they
99:10score there late, they actually have a real chance.
99:13You're right. Like maybe, maybe pretty leads a field goal coming back, but like they have a real chance to steal this
99:19game at the end and not really leave a lot of time for the Niners.
99:23Like that's what you're trying to do as an underdog on the road.
99:26I thought it was expertly done, um, in terms of at least the result, not necessarily the, um, the pro like the
99:32process on a down to down basis, which I was, um, trying to also give some, some understanding to you.
99:37But anyway, that was, that was a little bit of a heated and a little bit of a, you know, a, a,
99:43a, a powered, um, you know, charged, a charged tangent.
99:46Um, we should get back to the, to the actual game.
99:49We gotta go rapid fire here. Cause I know.
99:51Yeah. We don't have a lot of time. I haven't let you do a lot of talking about Antonio Williams.
99:57You've been trying to get to it. What do you got?
100:00I don't have to add too much more. I liked Antonio Williams as a prospect.
100:04I didn't like think he was a superstar, but I thought he was, um, especially like pre draft discourse.
100:09I thought he was an underrated prospect. What I liked about Williams was he came in and produced right away.
100:14He didn't ever have a ton of peak production at Clemson, but he was able to establish himself right away.
100:20Um, I also just think he has like pretty clear NFL skills.
100:23Like he's a guy that can win and separate in the intermediate areas of the field.
100:27Um, I don't know if he is like, you know, the long-term wide receiver one for the Washington commanders.
100:32I'm skeptical of the ceiling, but I think he is an NFL player.
100:36Um, I think he's going to be a contributor.
100:38I think he has a chance to be the wide receiver one potentially by default this year.
100:43I mean, one of his high-end comps coming out from a lot of people, uh, not just myself was Lab McConkie and
100:49like another kind of like a guy who's like, maybe he's not really like a wide receiver one, but like he can
100:54function that way in a pinch and obviously been really unfortunate.
100:57He's dealt with so many injuries this year, but you think of Lab McConkie's rookie season, you know, he was able to
101:03really step it up, especially over the second half of the season as the best target owner on, on a team.
101:09And like, maybe that's an upside case for Antonio Williams over the second case of the season.
101:14Jaden Reed had a really strong second half of his rookie season.
101:17He had some similar notes in his prospect profile as well to Williams.
101:20So I'm excited about this. I prefer Cooper. I think we've seen a little bit more flashes of that really high end upside from Cooper.
101:27I'd like the prospect profile a little bit more on the high end from Cooper, but I'll say back end of tier
101:33two or quarter two, um, for Antonio Williams. Like, I think he is a guy that would not surprise me if we're
101:39able to start him like as a wide receiver three wide receiver four flex type, um, over most of the rest of the season.
101:45And like, we'll see how he progresses. Maybe there's even more upside than that, especially coming out of the bi-week you're on mute.
101:51I love all those notes. I would just say, I think there's a little bit of a wider band for him than
101:57anyone else because of the fact that he could just be the number one by the end of the season.
102:03Terry McLaurin's out for the year. I don't think it's digs.
102:06Excuse me. I don't think it's digs at all.
102:08And I think, um, there's a possibility that Antonio Williams just emerges late in a way that like makes him a guy
102:14who was just like racking up target. Sure. I mean, you think about the, the, the, the rookie hammers, the late season
102:20rookie hammers of the past that the guys like Dom and Ross St.
102:23Brown's and stuff, where they just got a ton of volume.
102:26That's what this could become. If Jane Daniels is a very good player, um, last two notes on Jane deals.
102:32I'm going to be really quick. Uh, he did make a lot of mistakes in this game.
102:36I just want to re and re emphasize that.
102:39One of the ones was he took hits again when he was scrambling, especially early.
102:43It took a big hit. And I think like those are terrible plays and there's, there's things he can definitely, he definitely deserves criticism on.
102:49And then the second thing is I was, it was doing the, the, like the comparison of this play style.
102:55One of the arc of the counter arguments would have been for like, when I start talking about like some of the
103:01racial stuff that some of the white guys aren't bailing out of pockets and stuff, they're taking checkdowns.
103:06They're going through the progressions, taking checkdowns. Part of that, like my argument is like part of, again, maybe it's not a racial thing.
103:12It's more just an athleticism thing or whatever you want to say, but like, part of that is like, it's the, it's
103:18the, like the white guys can't move out of the pocket.
103:21Like they, they're like, a lot of them are just pocket.
103:24They're, they're statuesque. They don't have the athleticism that Jane Daniels does.
103:27He uses that athleticism. Well, he had a hundred rushing yards on two long scrambles for long touchdowns last week.
103:32He uses that athleticism. Well, that is a element that you want him.
103:36Like Josh Allen does it too. Like, so let's not make it a race.
103:40Josh Allen like bails out of pocket. It sometimes extends plays as well as anyone in the league.
103:44And it doesn't, you know, Josh Allen stands in the pocket better than Daniels too.
103:49I think Daniels is a young quarterback that, that is a little bit more skittish than, you know, Josh Allen, Josh Allen
103:54played an, an, an unethical in like massive air quotes game on Monday football against the Rams.
103:59And he did it in a similar circumstance to Jane Daniels, which is they were without their wide receiver one, DJ Moore.
104:05They were, they're missing Josh Palmer too. So they're really undermanned.
104:08Um, and they were against the defense is playing pretty soft.
104:11And there were people, I mean, and in fairness, I think it was Orlovsky actually, it might've been someone else, but he
104:17pointed out a play where he missed all in Kincaid, um, downfield who was open and available.
104:21Um, and so that's obviously consistent, but like for most of that game, Josh Allen kind of just decided it felt like,
104:27I don't know if it was an active decision or like a subconscious decision, but he, he operated on throughout the game, the mode of, yeah.
104:34Okay. Like without DJ Moore in this game with like the Rams corners against my pretty mediocre outside wide receiver talent.
104:40Like what I'm going to do is I'm just going to, I'm going to run a lot when I have the opportunity
104:46to run, I'm going to check it down to the backs and I'm going to, you know, make some plays here and there.
104:52We're going to kind of manufacture offense down the field.
104:55And it worked really, really well. Obviously it worked better for them than it worked for Jane Daniels.
104:59They scored like, what was it? 30, 37 points in a win or something like that.
105:04Uh, and they, uh, they win the game. And I mean, you know, because it's Josh Allen and obviously he's earned more
105:10of the benefit of the doubt that Jay Daniels has, like outside of a couple of notes here or there, most people
105:16praised the way that he played, but it was like, that was an example of one of, am I being the best quarterback in the league?
105:23Like playing a specific style that he felt he needed to, to win that specific game.
105:27And like, maybe not the most sustainable way to play 17 games a year, but I thought it was a completely reasonable way to play and it worked.
105:34And, and I, I don't, I agree with you that I don't think Jay Daniels is given the same grace.
105:40Yeah, no, that's, that's a great point. And he won the game and that's a little bit of a different thing there,
105:46but Jane Daniels did very well in the second half to get them back in a position where they could win the
105:52game when they were down 20 points on the road to an undefeated team.
105:55That's, you know, looks like a super bowl contender.
105:58Jeremy Bernard, 12 targets, 11 catches, 1.8, 8-0 last week.
106:00He has made some plays down the field. Looks like a very good fit for Aaron Rodgers with the ball in hand stuff.
106:07I noticed in your take purge, you talked about how DK Metcalf got a lot of his production late.
106:12Bernard was getting it throughout completely agree. Having said that Gerard or Bernard was getting some late as well.
106:17The, the Steelers were another team that was down, down two scores, throwing a lot as a result, throwing into overtime.
106:22The fact that both he and Metcalf had 12 target games here is I believe no Steeler had had more than six
106:28catches in a game all season until this game.
106:31And then both Metcalf and Bernard did it. It's a little bit of a team level.
106:35Hey, we got into a pass comeback mode. We play an overtime period.
106:39We get extra volume in that overtime period. Bernard catches his touchdown in overtime that elevated his ceiling in this particular game.
106:44I know you were really into him as a prospect.
106:47Everything has worked very favorably for Bernard. Everyone else is out and he looks great.
106:51I mean, he looks awesome. And he's a good fit for, I don't want to like limit what he's done.
106:57He's a good, good fit for what Rogers does.
106:59But also like Rogers has talked about, they've quizzed him and Bernard's been passing it and he's doing all the things he needs to do behind the scenes.
107:07And he's making the plays on the field. He's got great ball in hand.
107:10He looks awesome. He looks awesome. Having said that for me, he's more of a low Q2 guy closer to Q3 in
107:16that there's going to be other guys coming back.
107:19Like I do think Pittman's going to play again this year.
107:22Right. For as far as my understanding, or is that not?
107:25I think so, but he's so freaking washed. Okay.
107:27Roman Wilson is another one that is on IR could come back.
107:30They use the tight ends. They use the running backs.
107:33There are going to have games where they just don't throw a ton, which is part of the point of, they didn't
107:39have a lot of 12 target games. Now Bernard, I understand people are like, Bernard's going to get his around the line
107:45of scrimmage, but we have seen when a guy with sort of a 1.8 ADOT only gets like five catches.
107:50It's not that playable. You really do need to get to like the 10 catches that he got to in this game.
107:5611 catches for it to really like, then it looks awesome because especially like in PPR, you're like, oh man.
108:01But like, I've, I can't, I can't do it.
108:04I can't go into the tangent I was about to go into.
108:07What do you think about Jeremy Bernard? Man, shout out to you for some self-control.
108:11Shout out to us. We're going to hit this hard out no matter what.
108:15That's the point of a hard out. It has to be hard.
108:18Anyways, Jeremy Bernard, I will, I will slightly disagree with you.
108:21I'd rather have Jeremy Bernard the rest of the season than Antonio Williams.
108:24I'll go Cooper one, Bernard two, Williams three. I think they're all Q2 guys for me.
108:29I would say Williams is on like the fringe of Q2, Q3 for me.
108:32I think Bernard would be squarely in Q2. I just think.
108:35I think you're right about that more than you're wrong about it.
108:39Cause I do think the floor is a lot, probably a lot higher, but I think the ceiling is not close, which is why I would take Williams.
108:46He could be the number one. He's got Daniels.
108:49That's fair. I mean, I, I think that the, I mean, I would actually say that as a median outcome, I think Bernardo scores Cooper too.
108:56I think that Cooper's ceiling is higher. Cause I think that the prospect profile is higher that like the, the level of
109:02work is a little bit more well-rounded. I mean, I think Bernard is just such a good fit for what Rogers wants
109:07to do, which is throw a bunch of two yard passes over and over and over again.
109:12And Bernard's really good at that stuff. Like he, he got kind of a, a boring tag as a prospect.
109:17Um, like a lot of people are like, Oh, like professional wide receiver, you know, he'll, he'll come in and he'll help out right away.
109:24But like how high is the ceiling? And I mean, I think a lot of that's fair.
109:29And I'm, I'm kind of seeing a lot of that.
109:31I even wrote in my article, like, you know, between the two, like Cooper's the one I'd be more inclined to buy
109:37high on, especially in dynasty formats, like in terms of a real ceiling.
109:41Um, but I also thought Bernard's ball and hand ability got underplayed in the draft process.
109:45Like this is just not even based on the data or anything, but like I'm a Vols fan and we played Alabama
109:51last, we play Alabama every year on the third Saturday of October.
109:54And like, I remember watching the Tennessee Alabama game last year, not knowing who Jeremy Bernard was.
109:59You obviously did cause he played at UW and then just like three or four times throughout that game.
110:04Like I was like, who the hell is five?
110:06Cause we can't tackle this kid. Uh, and that was Jeremy Bernard.
110:09And like, I remember making a note being like, okay, I want to draft this guy.
110:14Like she just looks, he moves different. Anyway, that's not like a real take.
110:18I obviously do more analysis than that over the course of rookie season, but just like watching games in college, I found
110:23myself frequently impressed by like his movement skills. And that's really translated a lot to, uh, the NFL level.
110:29And like, it makes sense to me that in this context of this offense, like where, where Rogers looking hunting quick completions,
110:34it's like they've done it a few times with DK Metcalf.
110:37It always looks weird. Cause it's not DK Metcalf's game that you, uh, they, they did like a couple of those bubble
110:43screens for him and they went like nowhere. Um, and that's not really Moose game.
110:47It's a kind of Darnell Washington's game. It's definitely Jalen Warren's game.
110:51It's never been Pippen's game either. Even if he does return like Pippen's a short area guy, but he's, he's like a wide receiver, Zach Ertz.
110:58Like he catches the ball. He falls down. He doesn't make plays happen with the ball in his hand.
111:03Sheree Bernard can. So I think that ball in hand stuff is more sustainable as a floor in this offense than like
111:09any other, because this offense will rack up a lot of short area completions, like not to the level that they did
111:14in this game, the way that they were chasing points in this game, like is not completely sustainable.
111:19But like over the course of the season, this offense throwing a lot of low eight up passes is more sustainable because
111:25of Aaron Rogers play style than it would be in most cases.
111:28And so I think you do have like a wide receiver, three wide receiver floor, four floor.
111:33You have a target floor there and then you're going to have chances for ceiling weeks.
111:37Like we just saw where, you know, he finds the end zone or they do fall multiple scores behind and they do
111:43have to do a lot of PPR spam. I think it's just a really good fit.
111:48And like, yeah, I guess it's give or take what you feel on Pittman.
111:51I think Pittman's pretty cooked. I'm not that worried about Michael Pittman.
111:55Like he was brought in as a one year rental really as like a stopgap player.
111:59He's on IR now. He's going to come back.
112:01Like, I don't know. Do I think that they're going to be that anxious to like take out this rookie who's earning
112:07trust and Aaron Rogers spoken of really confidently of just to force targets back to Michael Pittman, who's not gonna be on the team next year like that?
112:15I mean, NFL teams do things like that all the time.
112:18So I shouldn't be overly confident, but that would seem crazy to me.
112:21It's not that it's not that it's that the way that the CEOs operate their offense is they it's like they intentionally try to be unconcentrated.
112:28Like Rogers is throwing these short passes and these concepts to the guy that he hasn't thrown in a while.
112:33Like when you watch a Steelers game, they don't they don't incorporate Darnell Washington for two quarters and then they throw to
112:39him like three times on a drive and then they go back to like Fryer with the next series and then they
112:45go to like Metcalf and then it's like it's it's an intentional like we're and so let's just give him another option
112:51Pittman and it it deconcentrates the production. I don't think it would remove Bernard.
112:55I don't think it'd be forcing Pittman volume to take away from Bernard.
112:58I think they would think it's gives us another weapon and we can do more stuff.
113:03We can still do the Bernard stuff, but as far as fantasy is concerned, we want to see this week's result where
113:09it's all the volume went to Metcalf and Bernard.
113:11My point about go look at all their box scores and no one's had no one had caught more than six passes
113:17in a game in any other game all year is the volume doesn't typically concentrate in this passing game and there's usually not that much volume.
113:24There was more this week. You can look at every other box score.
113:27It is not that way with with with Pittsburgh most weeks and when it does concentrate you still have Metcalf there who is early in the year.
113:35He had some drops games. He's the one who had the 10 target games and in this game he ends up getting
113:41up there as well as they get into the heavy volume.
113:44I know it was late, but I'm not discounting that like when it when they had to start throwing they went to Metcalf.
113:50They went you know, they went to Mecca quite a bit at the end there.
113:54So my I liked your points. I think my thought would be for the different types of builds.
113:59If you have a roster that has real Q1 production, you have a Jameer Gibbs team and you're hit you've hit on multiple other guys.
114:05You have some good receivers at Parker Washington and Christian Watson at your four or five turn or something and you just
114:11need a stopgap for your wide receiver three. Then Jeremy Bernard is probably the better play than Antonio Williams because you're I
114:17agree and it's a full PPR league as well because there's a probably a full PPR half PPR point here.
114:23He's definitely a full PPR play. I do agree with you that Jeremy Bernard is the higher floor play and especially for
114:28that type of team if you're in a team that has had a bunch of injuries and you need a breakout wide
114:34receiver, which is the way that I'm like mostly looking at these things that I think Antonio Williams has the potential to
114:40be the and I think you were saying that was sort of fair, but I think we're we're we're in a similar agreement on him Jacoby Lane.
114:48I was pumped. I've talked a little bit in the newsletter lately about sort of like who are the guys that offenses
114:53try to focus on and like who are the guys that are like in the circle of trust or what have you
114:59Jacoby Lane look like he was going to be that guy in week one.
115:03They talked about him in August like he was going to be that guy when he was out on IR.
115:08There wasn't really another guy behind flowers and Derek Henry Bateman popped up one week, you know some Andrew stuff, but Andrews
115:14looks kind of dusty honestly like his slot rate is way down.
115:18They're playing flowers in the slot more and so they're doing some of the flower stuff is pushing Andrews back more in line.
115:24He's past blocking at a career high rate and he doesn't look good.
115:27His efficiencies at a career low rate yards per target and stuff even when he's out in route.
115:32So it's not Andrews for me. He's old and it's just not looking great.
115:36Lane comes back their first drive. They again, this is the Browns game where they ended up just like stop trying for
115:42whatever reason, but first drive went Henry rush flowers catch Henry rush lane catch Henry rush.
115:46I believe it was then a flowers rush, but it was another flowers touch Henry rush lane catch that it was it
115:52was this back and forth pattern of and Lane was the guy and so flowers getting the ball in hand stuff.
115:58He got a handoff lane got to like in breaking.
116:00I think they were both slants that he caught them both for first downs and then later in the first half he
116:06caught a third down third down first down conversion only has four catches in this game.
116:11He took a weird tumble right before half where he went up on the sideline got flipped and landed on the sideline.
116:16Got up looked wobbly. I thought he was going to be concussed.
116:20I've been shocked that he's not he didn't get removed from that game and has not there's been nothing reporting on him
116:26because he took a weird hit right before half.
116:28He jumped a little too high and got flipped up up ended.
116:31But early in that game was clearly a part of what they did offensively.
116:35Well, when they got that 10 0 lead and then they ended up not scoring anymore.
116:39They have losing to the Browns. I think he's he's like the guy that they want to be this contested catch vertical
116:45route runner down the field looks great. He's another one for me that fits in.
116:49I think all these guys are very fantastic like waiver plays for this week, but he'd be another one that fits into the Q2 discussion.
116:56And if I was drafting today, I'd probably want Jacoby Lane maybe a little bit later for me.
117:01He'd be closer to Jeremy. And again, it would be a conversation of ceiling versus floor where I think like Jeremy's going
117:07to have the more consistent volume lane the way that offense runs may not, but he hasn't really even gotten to play with Lamar a lot.
117:14And I do think there's some potential that he's a pretty meaningful hit.
117:17So anyway, he's a fun like like as that same concept we were talking about with Omar Cooper when you're the clear
117:23number two off a legit elite number one, which is what Zay Flowers has been.
117:27I think Lane could really consolidate that ancillary receiving stuff the way that Isaiah likely has and the way that, you know,
117:33these number two, sometimes it's just a two man game.
117:36Flowers is so dynamic. It's going to be hard for anyone to stop him.
117:39And then if Lane gets one-on-ones off of that, it's a Chase Higgins point, right?
117:44Like there's never the wide receiver three never does anything.
117:46And then sometimes gets sick. He catches a TD, but like no one does anything else in that, in that past game.
117:52It's, it's a one, two, it's a lamb pickings or whatever.
117:55Like there's some guys there that are doing some stuff like Florida is doing some stuff, but it's usually lamb pickings, right?
118:01So, um, Lane, there's less pass volume than the Bengals and the Cowboys.
118:04It is in this Ravens offense, but I think Lane could be that clear number two.
118:09And then you can consolidate enough, even though there's not a lot of volume.
118:13I know you weren't as high on him as a prospect, but are you, are you pretty pumped about him now?
118:18Yeah. The other three were like all guys that I, I think I liked a little bit more than the consensus, um, especially Williams.
118:25Um, and then this one was probably one that I, well, definitely one that I liked less, but I mean, I think I was just clearly wrong.
118:32Like he looks really good though. The craziest thing we're not going to go.
118:36I promise we're not going to go on this, this long of a tangent.
118:39Cause I don't even know the answer. I'm curious when the last time would be that two wide receivers came out of the same school.
118:46One was viewed very widely as the better prospect.
118:49And then the other one like ended up being a smash.
118:51And then the top one ended up being a bust.
118:54I'm not declaring with Kyle lemon a bust yet.
118:57It's just fascinating to me that like of all the rookies, the one who's gotten off to the worst start is my Kyle lemon.
119:03He's a long way to go. Not, not remotely ending things for him, but then lane has been one of the great
119:09surprises and they put the same offense. It's very interesting.
119:12I don't know. I would, I'll have to look into this someday, but I, I wouldn't be the right guy to ask about that.
119:18But, um, people were saying, cause like a lava was thought to be worse than Garrett Wilson and even JSN and people
119:24early in the career were like, well, a lot of it was actually surprising the best.
119:28Yes. And that, but so then Garrett Wilson's been better, but for a bit there, people were saying he was better.
119:34The other one I'm thinking of is, um, I thought of Almond Ross, St.
119:38Brown and Drake London cause we're doing the USC thing.
119:40But again, London has also been good. So it's not, but Almond Ross, St.
119:44Brown was a day three picks are kind of correlated.
119:47Like usually it's like you, usually you're looking back on some of these situations and you're like, Oh, like why wasn't, you
119:53know, why wasn't one guy more dominant? And it's like, well, because they were all amazing.
119:57You know, it's like that you, those USC teams had Pittman and London and St.
120:01Brown or whatever. And it's like, well, actually they were all hits, you know?
120:05Um, and Ohio State, I mean, I guess Marvin Harrison looks like a bust and there was a bunch of wide receivers
120:11who got dwarfed in production by Marvin Harrison. But, um, so maybe that's one.
120:14I met Kibuka. People think like him more than him.
120:17Well, people think he's good cause he turned 30 targets into 90 yards.
120:21But anyway, um, 16 targets for 40. So you were talking about ethical production.
120:24That was absurd. You get 16 targets in that game.
120:27It was insane. Anyway, sorry. What are your thoughts on, um, Lane?
120:30Yeah. I mean, he, it's just, it looks like he can play first off, just like as he looks like a guy that can play.
120:37And then you mean you, you, you laid it out, right?
120:40There's, there's only two guys in this offense that have been working.
120:43It's been Henry and it's been flowers and there's an obvious opening for a third guy to step into that void.
120:49Um, and so if Lane shows up to it, like, yeah, he can consolidate a lot of the volume that's been like
120:55scattered around to the Bateman and Andrews and shout out Josh Cuavis.
120:58Uh, you highlighted the coolest play in the NFL this week that they use Josh Cuavis on, um, that we have a
121:04hard out, so I'm not going to describe, but it was sick.
121:07And then, uh, anyways, I, the, there's definitely a clear opportunity for Lane.
121:11Like how much volume in a low volume passing offense, you know, can like the, the number two take up?
121:16Cause like I, I, my priors have come up on lane, but I don't, I still don't think he's any, any, anywhere
121:22close as a flowers in terms of volume dominance.
121:24I don't know. I think I would put him fourth of the, of the four in this group, but like pretty close to Williams for me.
121:31Um, and I think I, I, I don't know, he'd be like right on the borderline of the, of the quarter two, quarter three cutoff.
121:38Like he would be one of the last guys of the wide receiver window kind of in that, that mold.
121:43If we were redrafting today, we've been talking about this hard out.
121:47We have about a half an hour left top.
121:49So we are going to, for the listeners, it's my fault.
121:52I'm, I'm going, I, uh, I have a concert tonight in Seattle, ironically, that's where Ben's from.
121:57Um, but we're, we're seeing geese tonight. Um, so if there's any fans to listen to us or in Seattle, come say hi.
122:03But, uh, anyways, uh, so it's my fault on the hard out.
122:06We're going to, we're going to motor through, we're going to get through this injury return.
122:10Guys, uh, are interesting to me. Four of them on IR currently, but Coleman is going to be activated.
122:15I think very quickly price doesn't seem too far off.
122:18They've been talking about him not being that hurt.
122:20Um, or I mean, like I, I got mad at our buddy Davis Maddox when he tweeted something about like, he's probably not even injured.
122:27Like, no, I just, man, that drives me nuts.
122:30I'm sorry. But that, cause I've heard that take on other guys too.
122:33Oh, you, you do it with Eli Stowers. I mean, I just don't think that's the way that any of this stuff works.
122:39But like, I do think there are times when like guys are banged up and they're like, yeah, we want to get him healthy.
122:46And I think that's part of what happened with prices.
122:48Like he already had one injury. He, he re-injured it and they're like, it's a long season.
122:53We, we like, we need to let this rookie actually get healthy.
122:56I think they're doing it with Jeremiah love right now, who I have on this list as well.
123:01Um, we saw what Gentie too. You return these guys too soon.
123:04They re-injure like, yeah, you put them on IR.
123:07You give them four weeks. You give them the full, get them to a hundred percent.
123:11It doesn't mean they're not hurt. I just think that's absurd.
123:14Anyway, Jordan Tyson, uh, Janarian price, Jeremiah love Jonah Coleman, Dijon stripling.
123:17Stripling's the one where they're going on a buy pretty quick.
123:20Like people had originally talked about it, like around like week 10 ish.
123:24I'm hearing that it's going to be more like week 12 ish.
123:27Like it's, it's still a little ways off for him.
123:30Obviously opportunity in the Niners passing game. Everyone gets hurt for the Niners, but it might even be a thing where like Mike Evans is healthier.
123:37Debo Samuel is healthier. Those guys get back sooner than stripling.
123:39It's not like striplings, like around the corner from returning Tyson.
123:42Tyson, we know has had that chronic hamstring stuff dating to college played through it in his final college game.
123:48Uh, you know, put the team on his back for a, for a win.
123:52And then has had hamstring injuries ever since like all off season through the process into the preseason.
123:56They put them on IR. I guess what Tyson, I feel like, yes, the re-injury risk is high, but whenever they activate
124:02him this time, they're going to have given him enough time.
124:05It's that same concept with the pricing where it's like, you get the re-injury and stuff like we just got to get this guy, right?
124:12I kind of feel like when Tyson's back, he'll be hopefully good to go.
124:16You've talked a lot about him. You wrote about him in your, your take thing.
124:20But like when we talked about the John Johnson stuff, you are high on Tyson and you are concerned out for, for
124:26John Johnson and for, um, Devon Valle, Tyson's return.
124:28Cause Tyson's good enough that he could be potentially even as good as, um, Chris Alave.
124:32And you're talking about a one, two man punch, like the lane return was a flowers potentially.
124:37And I, I do acknowledge that's very plausible. Tyson has a very fun prospect profile, um, rapid fire.
124:42I'm going to say Tyson is a quarter two guy, but I could see saying he's a high quarter two guy price.
124:48I'm going to say high quarter to love. I'm going to say still quarter one when he comes back.
124:53I mean, this, this is when they come back when they're healthy and going forward.
124:57Yeah. Price to me is a still a clear quarter one player.
125:00Um, has looked awesome. We've talked a lot about that.
125:03You wrote about that in your takes column as well.
125:05I know you agree that he has looked good enough that once he's healthy, he should still be a difference maker.
125:11Jonah. And I think he goes in the top two rounds next year.
125:15Jonah Coleman. I'm going to say quarter two. Like, I think he's moved up enough and Dobbins has looked bad enough.
125:20I think maybe you're higher than me on Coleman.
125:23I don't think, I think you said in your writeup that he's their best back.
125:27I think RJ Harvey's a buy right now. I don't think RJ Harvey is going to go away.
125:32Peyton's always used the two backs. And I do think even though Peyton has devalued him, I think that's, I think he's a legitimate buy.
125:38I've made this case in signals as well. Cause I think a lot of times people say guys are buys.
125:44They're not even gettable. I think RJ Harvey's value is down and probably for fair reasons, but there's real ceiling to the,
125:50to the profile with how he catches passes. And I do think there's room for him to actually see his role expand
125:55in the ways that it hasn't yet. And if it did, I think his range of scoring would be very positive.
126:01So I think he's a legitimately devalued by that has real potential to score well in PPR, especially because I do think
126:07he could play a pretty meaningful role down the stretch in this backfield.
126:10And I know he's not like a been a great runner, but I do think he could actually, you know, catch a lot of passes and run more.
126:18And he he's had some explosiveness to his runs in his career, just not a consistency.
126:22So anyway, Coleman for me is a more of a low quarter to guy.
126:26I think he's the second best bet in the Broncos backfield.
126:29Probably. I do think he's interesting. And there are paths for him to take over the whole backfield, which you kind of implied as well.
126:36Well, stripling to me would be a quarter. I'm going to say quarter four.
126:39Like it's, it's, it is a, it is a long shot with stripling.
126:43What do you, what do you have as a rapid fire for the injury?
126:47Mostly in line. I'll, I mean, I, I, I'm already somewhat forgetting exactly what number you gave each person, but I, I
126:53was like, do your own with the vibes of what you're saying.
126:56Uh, I'll, I'll Tyson. Like there's a strong chance that this injury just derails his entire season.
127:00But like, I, I still think if he comes back healthy and is able to stay healthy, which are two huge ifs that I think he will be.
127:08My hot take would be, he's, he will be the most productive rookie wide receiver from the time he comes back on
127:14the field to the end of the season. I, I, I really think he is.
127:18I, I, I, I felt strongly that he was the best wide receiver in the class.
127:22All the reviews about him through training cramp, training camp were excellent.
127:25He walks into a very favorable situation for fantasy production.
127:28Um, and I, I really think the biggest issue with him is just the health, but I'm, I'm a huge fan of the talent.
127:35Um, I haven't stashed in a couple of places and I'm like pumped for him to come back.
127:39I think it'll be week nine or 10. I'm hopeful.
127:42And I'm really hopeful that he stays healthy, um, over the course of that period.
127:46Cause I'm, I'm really excited about his potential. Um, price, I expect, I mean, he'd be Q2.
127:51Like he, I mean, definitely. I mean, I think he's, I think he's the best rusher on the team still.
127:56I feel pretty good about saying that. I think the, his season went in a really unfortunate direction where he wasn't able
128:02to consolidate the high value touches before Charbonnet's return.
128:04Charbonnet is probably going to play this week. He's going to beat him back.
128:08Um, I think that it will be difficult for price to wrestle away those pass catching and goal line chances from a guy that they really trust.
128:15Cause even if Charbonnet is not explosive and hampered from the injury, like that might be the work that they care least about that aspect for.
128:22And so I could see price, like just being in a kind of a frustrating role, but I definitely think like, go
128:28look at running back rankings this week, you know, like, look at, look at like trying to rank the RB 22 this
128:34week, even if price isn't getting a ton of goal line touches, uh, and, and not playing a ton and like comeback mode.
128:40Like if you can get 14 carries and two targets and the chance of running one in from the eight yard line,
128:46uh, you know, from a really explosive, talented player at this point in the season, that's starting player.
128:51Love that. And there's some stuff that's worked in his favor in terms of the other backs failing.
128:56Emmanuel Wilson has failed. George Alani has struggled. And if, if Charbonnet is now, now it's, I agree with everything you said
129:02about Charbonnet, but now it's just Charbonnet. That is the concern.
129:05And if Charbonnet, there's still uncertainty. If he comes back and he looks a lot worse than last year, or he really
129:11struggles in a meaningful way, then you have, then, I mean, then you have some, you know, maybe price just winds up
129:17like really hitting a ceiling at that point. But anyway, I agree with Lou.
129:20Love. I agree. I'm in the bag for Jeremiah.
129:23Love and Q1. Like it's, I feel like more confident about like, I don't even know my subscribers brought to my attention
129:29that there's like negative sentiment about him and like dynasty community.
129:32And I would, I like, I've never been more comfortable in my life planting a flag on someone to not worry about than Jeremiah love in dynasty.
129:39But even from a redraft perspective. Yeah. I mean, I, I would take the shot for sure.
129:44Like he would be, I don't know when he's going to come back.
129:47Exactly. Sounds like he's not going to play this week, but.
129:50Once he comes back, like I would probably rank him as a top 15 back rest of the season.
129:55There's not a lot of other opportunities to get that type of talent upside.
129:59So I would view him kind of the same way that I viewed him before the season, which is like one of
130:05the last calls before we get into that or dead zone area.
130:08Jonah Coleman. I mean, he, he would be like, like, I'm trying to think of where I would draft the Broncos backs right now.
130:14Like it would be like all, all three of them would be kind of in that QT, Q2, like back end Q2,
130:20low end Q or high end Q3, like kind of morass of the zero RB range.
130:25Right. I mean, it's ambiguous spot. I mean, it's just, it's a spot where like Dobbins projects the best this week.
130:30He would be the last Broncos running back. I would have interest in unless you just really need him to start for the next couple of weeks.
130:38Cause it just, he feels so fragile. He's played really not well this year.
130:41And I guess the reason I'm so high on Coleman is that they've had Harvey healthy all this time.
130:46Dobbins has been not playing well at all and they still haven't trusted Harvey to take on more work.
130:51I think that's a mistake. I'm mostly with you.
130:54I think that they would have been better off playing Harvey in a more expanded role this whole time.
130:59But like the fact that they haven't been willing to just, I just kind of reinforces to me that I think that
131:05they see Harvey as a role player. I think if Coleman didn't exist and they had to go through the entire rest
131:11of the season, like it would just be inevitable that Harvey encroaches more on Dobbins rushing over time, because I think you
131:17just can't sustain this level of, of play. But Coleman kind of gives him another door.
131:21I mean, I think he's just going to be like immediately a better runner than JK Dobbins and whatever opportunities he gets.
131:27And he's also a more well-rounded player than JK Dobbins.
131:30Dobbins is not a great pass catcher. He's a bad pass blocker.
131:33You can play Jonah Coleman in every game situation.
131:35Like I think he's better than JK Dobbins right now.
131:38I love JK Dobbins, the player. I think he was one of the best rushers in this league for a long time.
131:44But he's, he's not got it anymore. And I think Coleman provides a better element in what JK Dobbins is best.
131:50He's a lot more well-rounded. You can't start him this week or anytime soon, but he's like one of the priority stashes
131:55to me of a guy who's available around and like just grab him and see what happens because there's a need here in this backfield.
132:02And he's a guy that I like a lot.
132:05And I love what we saw out of him in week two.
132:08I thought he looked great. Yeah, I do. I agree on Coleman being a stash for sure.
132:12The reason I was to circle onto the Harvey by low.
132:15And I was like, he's a, he's a real by low and not everybody loves an actual gettable guy.
132:20There's a narrative and probably a fair one that since Sean Payton took over the play calling, they have, he has devalued
132:26Harvey, which is a concern for Harvey. And now with Coleman coming back, there's, there is this vibe right now that Coleman's coming back.
132:33And so that's bad for Harvey. That's why I actually do think it's an interesting time to consider buying on Harvey because
132:39those are real concerns, but like there's an actual low element to the by low.
132:43Don't go give a massive offer or anything. I agree with you on the Coleman stuff.
132:47Bad for Harvey. I think it's, I think it's bad for Harvey in the sense of like, I mean, I think, I
132:53think the word you described used in signals this week was not sustainable.
132:56Like about JK Dobbins or something has to give.
132:59I think he'd said. Yeah. So I compared him to the other guys that are at the very bottom of the rush
133:05yards, over expected leaderboard on NFL pro. And all of those guys have given up work included chase Brown.
133:10It includes guys that you like, but we started to see PRine get used.
133:14It's a high profile dude, but like the team's like, look, and it's not that they're looking at the rush yard over
133:20expected staff, but it's a proxy for what they're looking at, which is he's not hitting the right holes and he's not
133:25getting the yards that need to be gained. It was Marshawn Lloyd was on that list and he's lost to like three different other backs.
133:32And these, a lot of different guys that like teams are not prioritizing.
133:36And Dobbins is the one that's right there with them.
133:38And it's like, they're actually leaning into Dobbins right now.
133:41And that just doesn't seem sustainable. Yeah. I wrote about this with Brown, but it was two weeks ago, I think where
133:47I, um, where I highlighted where he was this exact stat.
133:50I don't, and I didn't see this note or whenever you put it up, but, um, it was like, people make a
133:56lot of fun of RYOE, but I, I usually make a, I usually make this point around this time of the year,
134:02because it's almost always true that like the stat that everyone bashes and it has its faults.
134:06I totally agree. It has its faults, but the stat that everyone hates on every year, usually you look around mid season
134:12and it is a bunch of running backs. Either everyone agrees sucks or players that we thought were good, who are having
134:18disappointing seasons and are giving up work half of the season.
134:21Like it's that usually tends to be the case.
134:23And so there's, there's like something there that's being measured.
134:26Um, I mean, I guess it's also like to be measured by yards per carry.
134:30So if you want to just like be a Luddite, you can also say that if you're running for 3.2 yards per
134:36carry, you're going to give up work, you know, that, that probably works too.
134:40But I wrote it after the Thursday night game on last Friday.
134:43Cause that's when Dobbins played and Emmanuel Wilson played.
134:45He's the other one. And Emmanuel Wilson keeps losing work to like George Halani, but he's the other one that's been very negative and rush yards over expected.
134:53Um, anyways. So yeah. But to your point about the stat, I was just reinforcing, like it has been pretty good at
134:59picking out, you know, the running backs that are at the extremes, not doing what they're expected to do.
135:04Yeah. A hundred percent. And I think, yeah, the degree is bad for Harvey.
135:08I guess what I was trying to say was to the degree is bad for Harvey.
135:12I think is, is that the, the JK Dobbins situation is not sustainable.
135:16And Jonah Coleman gives the Broncos another option of how to resolve the JK Dobbins situation.
135:20Whereas if Coleman didn't exist, then it would like have to be Harvey because there'd be no other option.
135:25Like your option, whether it would just be run into a wall for three yards carry or play RJ Harvey.
135:30Now they have a third door, which is they could put more on Coleman and keep Harvey in his role.
135:36It's a good point. Yeah. But I don't think it's like, he's, I don't think Coleman's going to come in and steal work from Harvey.
135:42Like Harvey's the best back on the team, what he's doing in his current role.
135:46Stribbling was the last guy. Yeah. Q4. I mean, it's too bad because the, everyone is completely fallen like flies in this past, the game.
135:53And I'm struggling and probably be killing it right now, but yeah, it sounds like it's just going to be a really long recovery.
136:00So. I did. Yeah. It's scaled up. I did say once guys are back.
136:03So let's, let's make an assumption that let's say he's back in 12 week 15.
136:07He may, he may, but let's say he's back in.
136:10Okay. In week 12 or something. If he's back in week 12, I'll give him a Q3, but I guess I don't think he's going to be.
136:17Yeah. That's okay. That's sort of how I was thinking about it as well.
136:21All right. That's the injury return guys. Other high profile names.
136:24We've talked about a lot of these guys have been around.
136:27People know what we think about the profiles, but a check-in on Makai Lemon, who's not producing, but Tanner McKee in his
136:33first start through 40 passes, both of his prior to career starts, he threw 40 passes.
136:37He's a six, six guy from Stanford who was like, I only say from Stanford, cause it's like another one of those
136:43types of like tall pocket pass, like Davis Mills.
136:46And obviously, you know, you had Andrew Luck and these dudes before.
136:49They have a, they seem to have a style of quarterback that comes out of Stanford, but this tall pocket passer.
136:54And he, it's like drop back conversion rates. It's going to go up.
136:58Pass rate was high. It was the highest PR or we in the league that partly because you have Barkley hurt.
137:04And you have Damien Pierce is the lead back and everything.
137:07They are going to run more with a young quarterback going forward, but there's some potential with the shift away from Jalen
137:12hurts that you have a lot more pass volume for lemon.
137:15Anyway, he's not producing lemon right now. Tate is to a degree more than I actually probably thought.
137:20Although my big argument on Tate was, it's not going to be an explosive breakout.
137:24There's going to be some production. There has been some though.
137:27And there's like some reason to believe maybe an explosive breakout's coming.
137:30We have Denzel Boston, who's been very efficient, but not getting enough volume as a downfield receiver.
137:35And I blame that on the quarterback. Casey's concept.
137:37See, I'm kind of blame on the quarterback as well.
137:40Have both those guys. And Sadiq is not playing a lot right now, which is frustrating.
137:44I'm going to put Sadiq in Q3. Boston for me is a Q2 guy.
137:48I'll put Concepcion in Q3. I'm a little more concerned about him.
137:51I understand his style of play is more fit for what Deshaun Watson does, but I just, I mean, this offense I think is killing everybody.
137:58It's killing Fannin. It's killing Judkins, but Boston has been a little bit of a revelation.
138:03I think I would be willing to make the Q2 bet.
138:06It's more about elevating Boston than moving Concepcion down.
138:08I would put Fannin in Q3 or later as well.
138:11Tate is a Q2 guy comfortably. I think I would have to move him up from where I had him ranked preseason,
138:17which was a little bit below his ADP, but I think I'd have him ahead of his ADP from preseason.
138:22I think you have to feel good about what he's done so far.
138:26Makai Lemon, you'd have to move down from where we had him ranked and where he was graded, but I think I
138:31would still have him as a back end Q2 guy, high end Q3.
138:35I don't think I would have him deep. I would take Lemon over Concepcion, I guess is, you know, to be, and
138:41I, Concepcion's done a little bit more, but I just, I guess I think there's more ceiling if Lemon does hit.
138:46What do you think about these guys? Um, Tate, definitely high Q2.
138:50I mean, he'd be, if we were drafting today, he'd be the second rookie off the board, I think easily.
138:55Maybe even be the first, depending on where you feel about Jeremiah loves health.
138:59So, um, definitely Q2 for Tate. I think he's been impressive.
139:02Um, Lemon, he'd be, he'd be firmly in Q3 for me.
139:05Um, it's just, we haven't, we just haven't seen enough, um, anywhere close to it.
139:09And I, I put some of the blame on, on like Hertz and the scheme early in the season.
139:14We still haven't seen enough from him. And then, you know, it's only been one week at Tanner McKee.
139:19I understand he had six targets, but like, that's still a really low share of, of 44 dropbacks.
139:24We'll see. I, I would be like Q3 for now.
139:26And like, I'm almost in the mindset of, I want to give him like a couple more weeks to see if we
139:32can have some more success with Tanner McKee before you just cut him.
139:36I I'm probably like, I like lemon a lot as a prospect.
139:39I'm probably inclined to be like a lemon truther next year.
139:42And I'll probably be a little bit higher than his ADP coming off of what I expect to be probably a bad rookie season, but I don't know.
139:50The offense looks pretty dysfunctional. Um, lemon hasn't shown a ton of ability.
139:53They haven't shown a ton of intent. I mean, they showed some intent to get on them, like some ball in hand
139:59stuff earlier in the season that didn't really work.
140:01Um, I don't know. I, I have a hard time with lemon.
140:05Like he, he right now it's like there's the path is at best to be the number two.
140:09Pass catcher number three option in like a pretty terrible offense that I, I guess is going to have a higher dropback conversion rates.
140:16That's a positive, but it's also not even that clear.
140:19He would be that number two pass catcher. I'd say he's behind Goddard in the pecking order right now.
140:24He's, he's not like dusted wicks at any point yet.
140:26Um, it's just, it's just hard to be excited about lemon.
140:29I feel like you need to get a lot of things right for him to be like an every week starter.
140:35Um, so I, I'd put him behind like that whole group that we, we saw kind of the emergent lane Williams Bernard.
140:41I, I agree with you that he could be cuttable in a few weeks.
140:45Um, and I just kind of, I, it is, it feels like a little bit of an inflection point for him as well.
140:51Um, as all these other players, but I, but I do agree with you that he could be cuttable.
140:56I, I guess I disagree that like the point about like there being a lot of things, it's, it's sort of like
141:02if, if, if my high lemon's good enough, then like, he's the first round rookie, their seasons going down the shitter.
141:08Like they want to get my high lemon going in the second half.
141:11I do agree with the take that like so far they've not been using him effectively.
141:15And it feels a little bit like JSN's rookie year.
141:18And you're thinking like more 20, 27, 20, 28, like the guy can develop a little bit.
141:23If he's a hit, he may never even be good.
141:25Like comparing him to JSN implies a ceiling that may not even ever be there.
141:29But I, I just think like he could be immediately good enough.
141:32Um, that like, it just rewrites all of that.
141:35You know what I mean? Like, like if like, well, I don't know that there's any reason to believe that he's going to do that.
141:42It's like yards per hour runner, like sub one right now.
141:45He's been running routes and not producing, but like if he, if he starts to produce, if he starts like his prospect profile was legitimately really strong.
141:52It's a little bit odd, but guys do start slow sometimes.
141:55And if he starts to hit, they will. That's the thing.
141:58It's an anti-fragile point point, the type point that if he has one good game, they will lean into that.
142:03It will snowball positively quickly. Like I'm just basically waiting for that one good game.
142:07And then it's like, we're off to the races with it.
142:10Cause they're going to be like, yeah, we want to use McKay lemon a ton.
142:14We're going to build a whole offense around using McKay lemon, even to the detriment of Devonta Smith, potentially not, not like
142:20fully that to that degree, but like this idea of like Dallas Goddard and where he fits and stuff.
142:25I, that was a part I was like, I'm not tracking.
142:28I would, I think if he hits it, he's going to hit.
142:31And it's just going to be all McKay lemon all the time.
142:35After that. I mean, it's just, we've, I guess what's, what's frustrating is I feel like there's already been a lot of opportunities for him.
142:41Like he had the weeks without Devonta Smith to play and where he could have stepped up as the number one.
142:47We had this week. I mean, it's only been one week, but he had the really high pass rate week with Tanner McKee quarterback.
142:53He's probably more willing to throw some of those intermediate routes that Jalen hurts won't that helps McKay lemon.
142:58So it's like, we've kind of had three straight weeks where there's been an impetus for McKay lemon to step up.
143:04He's failed to do so. And so like, it's, it's, I'm not like punting on him this year and certainly not long-term,
143:10but it, I guess it feels to me that because he's had such clear opportunities and they haven't resulted in production, that
143:16either he's not good enough or this team is just kind of out to lunch with him in the way that they're using him.
143:22And either way, I guess it's just hard for me to understand why that would change going forward as the situation kind of gets worse.
143:29Like he had a chance with no Goddard, no Smith, like now those guys are back.
143:33Like I, it's not over, but like, it feels, it feels like the opportunities are, are reducing to me, I guess.
143:39Totally. And they, it's more than, it's more than it feels like that.
143:43They are. That's what I'm saying. Like he could be droppable in a few weeks, but I think people are already dropping him because the opportunities are reducing.
143:50And what I'm trying to emphasize is, people are, and I don't want to drop me yet.
143:55And I'd bid on him next week. Yeah. If you can't get, if you, you can't get your hands on Cooper and
144:01Antonio Williams and Jeremy and Lane and stuff. And like lemons getting cut, like that's where you, I said that at the
144:06beginning of the show, there's more boats that are coming.
144:09I think I said, the beginning of the show, or maybe I said to you pre-show.
144:13I think I said on the show, like you missed the boat, more boats are coming.
144:18Makai lemon is a boat. Oh, you can get on and, and pick up and, and see for the next couple of weeks, if it starts to develop.
144:25And he, he could, if he hits, I still strongly believe this.
144:28He could hit better than all of the guys that we've spent most of the show talking about, including Cooper, Antonio Williams,
144:34Jeremy Bernard lane, obviously had more draft capital with them.
144:37He had more, a much bigger prospect profile where the Eagles are going with.
144:41Now I drop back passer offense in a lost season.
144:44It would, it would make perfect sense for them to just be like the Makai lemon show.
144:48Like if you want the almond raw St. Brown second half, I'm not saying Brown had some quiet games in the first half of his rookie season.
144:55And then suddenly it was just the whole offense.
144:58The second half, the guy lemon could be that guy this year.
145:01I mean, it's, I'm not saying it's going to be, but it's possible.
145:04I think it's possible. It's worth throwing them on the end of your bench.
145:08If you want to, if you want the next guy to be early on, you, you hit on everyone.
145:13I mean, I think that's fair. Um, the Browns guys, I mean, conception.
145:17I mean, I would definitely rather have conception than lemon.
145:20I would disagree with you on that one. Um, why, what do you see?
145:23Good stuff. Sounds good. Oh, how do you know in their offense?
145:26Like, I just think he's like, he's looked more impressive to me and he's been featured more in their offense.
145:32Like I, and they're both like, he has a one point.
145:35He has a 1.18 yards per outrun. He has a 5.8 yards per target.
145:39He's earning targets. He is earning targets, but like the post target efficiency is the concern.
145:43You said like, he's good. I don't put a lot of that on him.
145:47I mean, maybe you could, I guess I, I personally don't.
145:50I mean, that's obviously going to be an issue rest of the season.
145:53Cause the guy who's creating the post target efficiency is still gonna be his quarterback.
145:57But like, I think some of it is unlucky.
146:00Like he's been able to create post target efficiency for Denzel Boston.
146:03Why, why do you delineate? Concepcion, like everything you just said could apply to Makai Lemon.
146:07But Lemon isn't earning targets either. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, he missed a lot of August and he was a little
146:13banged up and like, yeah, you get like the way he was being used running in the flat early on.
146:18But yes, like I, I, I hear that. Um, but I think you can make it.
146:23I think is leading his team in targets per route.
146:25I'm, I believe I don't have it in front of me right now.
146:29I think he's even leading them in raw targets.
146:31He may be. Yeah. but like he's hasn't done anything with any of the work.
146:35I don't, I don't know why we know that he's good.
146:38It was my point. There's a lot of uncertainty.
146:41I think we're splitting hairs is more of my point.
146:43I, I, I agree that I don't, I don't see it as splitting hairs.
146:47I think there's a market difference. I think it's like one guy has stepped up as he's, he's been used as like
146:53a co number one in their offense. He's played a full-time roles, earned a lot of targets.
146:58I think he's looked, I think he's passed the eye test.
147:01I think most, a lot of the like inefficiency post target has been just him getting missed by Watson.
147:06And I mean, Boston has been really impressive, but I just think Watson is honestly just thrown better balls to Denzel Boston.
147:12And he asked Casey Concepcion when he's had chances to do so over the intermediate.
147:16Like I, I don't know. I think, I think that Concepcion is shown like just watching the games to me.
147:21Concepcion is winning more frequently than a Kyle lemon is on his chances.
147:24Like, Oh, I'm not immediate routes. Like I think he's just beating corners more, more frequently.
147:29Yeah. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not going to argue that point necessarily.
147:32I just, I, the point was like, and then, sorry, I'm definitely not going to argue that point at all.
147:38When I said splitting hairs, I think you're right.
147:40I was just saying, why can we be so sure?
147:43Because it's uncertainty based. And we're talking about breakouts that are going to be something different than what we've seen so far.
147:49Cause he doesn't have 200 yards through six weeks.
147:51Like what you're saying for lemon is that he's going to be something better going forward.
147:55And what I'm saying is like his situation is not changing.
147:58That's like some of that stuff is fair, especially the target earning.
148:02I guess I didn't realize he, he is leaving the team in targets.
148:05I didn't realize quite the degree of his targets.
148:07And part of that's because there's like a, we're just joking about a Mecca booka thing.
148:12Like there's an, a Mecca booka thing here. You got 35 targets and you have 186 yards.
148:16It's not ideal. Like you have a 5.3 yards per target.
148:19You can put that all on Watson, but that's a really low number.
148:23And he, he does actually have decent yak numbers.
148:25So it, I mean, anyway, I, yeah, because he's, he's gotten a lot of these short area targets that have been fine.
148:31And then he's had some chances where he's won on intermediate routes and, and Watson is missed.
148:36I mean, he's had some that have been like playable balls that he hasn't been able to come down with.
148:41And so it's not all Watson, but like, that's, I don't know that I've seen like the play strength and stuff with him.
148:47I've been a little, like, I'm not saying I'm disappointed in him, but I've been a little bit like, is he more than just a gadget player?
148:54You know what I mean? And if he's not in a good situation, it's a fair question.
148:59I mean, I think, yes. I mean, a lot of that's based on the prospect profile, profile still for me.
149:04And I mean, that's what's holding. That's, I mean, that's all that's holding on hope for lemon, right?
149:09I mean, it's really the prospect profile. Like if lemon was around, if lemon was around four pick, we'd be like, this guy stinks.
149:16So it's a lot of the, the priors. And, and I mean, that, the priors are holding through for Casey for me
149:22primarily, but I, I do feel like the route running has showed up.
149:25The play strength, I think is a fair point.
149:27And that was an issue in college too, is that he had drop issues.
149:31So, I mean, I feel better about him than lemon.
149:34What I was, what I was going to get to is like, I feel a lot better about Casey as like a player individually.
149:40And from a dynasty perspective, and maybe even from like a rest of season floor perspective or best ball perspective than a
149:46lot of the guys that we mentioned at the top of the show, but I would probably put him as yeah.
149:52High Q three, because like, like, I mean, outside of just efficiency regression, it's not obvious how things get better for Casey than what we've seen.
149:59Right? Like he, he's already leading them in targets.
150:01He's already running a bunch of routes. That's right.
150:04That's why, that's my concern. So like the way that it hits for him, that's why I'm saying the lemon thing is
150:10like with McKee and throwing a lot of passes.
150:12And I, I'm sorry, I keep cutting you off, but I was, I was asking why not to be like, you're wrong.
150:18I want to understand. And you've made some points that have helped me understand your perspective, but mine would be, you have
150:24Tanner McKee, you have a lost season. He's going to throw 40 times a game.
150:28And I just kind of laid it out. And I think you kind of agreed that like, if McKee lemon does start
150:34to play better football, there's then room for them to like use him in the offense in a, where they drop back pastor.
150:40And I'm not saying that he's going to be way better than Watson, but it's just like a more functional team.
150:46They have like a better offense, offensive line and different things going on and, and less competition, even though Devonta Smith is there.
150:52And like, they've been, I mean, are they still more functional team though?
150:55Like maybe not, maybe not. They traded one offensive lineman, another one retired.
150:59I think their coach is a jackass. And maybe I should be lower on lemon.
151:03Just the way you're kind of saying you should maybe be lower on Concepcion from a redraft perspective specifically.
151:08Cause you made those points that you're feeling good about Concepcion for dynasty that I think are very fair, but I think
151:14we're both kind of working toward like, yeah, I mean maybe I, I don't know.
151:18I, I'll acknowledge like lemon could be a cut pretty quickly, but I, I guess I think if, if he starts to
151:24settle in at some point, like a post by settle in or whatever, like it has only been six games and he
151:30did miss a lot of the off season that lemon could have a really strong stretch.
151:34And I guess I just don't see that for Concepcion.
151:37I don't know. Yeah, I think it's fair. I mean, I think it's more just, I'm really, I, I'm really bearish on the lemon.
151:43I mean, I just think that this is the, I think this is going to be like one of the worst teams in the NFL.
151:50And, and, and lemon has, has, hasn't been good with it.
151:53So are the lions, the lions went. So all of them, Ross St.
151:56Brown played every game early in his career. The lions were a fun offense through week 12.
152:01He had had over, but he had a couple of games that were like 70 yards, 65 yards, 61.
152:06Um, a couple of games with seven catches, six catches.
152:09He was doing some stuff, but like a lot of these games, one catch, no catches, two catches in that rookie year.
152:15And then he closed famously six straight games, double digit targets, eight plus catches, 70 plus yards.
152:19He had a touchdown on five of those six games.
152:22It was massively consistent. It was awesome. I'm not saying that my column is going to be that, but right before that
152:28stretch started, he had four targets, four catches, 23 yards the week prior the week before that.
152:32He had four targets, four catches, 18 yards. He had two games in a row with four catches and sub 25 yards.
152:38There was no like imminent. There was no like imminent production.
152:41And then, and they went three and 13. Right.
152:44But they were a fun offense. They were a horrible defense.
152:47They, they actually were kind of fun and kind of competitive on offense.
152:50I mean, the biggest difference I see is like, Aminra was a fourth round pick.
152:54Who was not really part of the plan early in the year.
152:57Wasn't even running all the routes really in the year.
153:00And then like through like probably some combination of behind the scenes, practice work and on field performance.
153:05Like he eventually became a way bigger part of their plans.
153:08And then he became the massive focal point over the end of the year.
153:12That to me is like an easier story to sell myself on for like an Antonio Williams or a Jeremy Bernard or a Jacoby lane.
153:18Like guys who like weren't the guy coming into the year.
153:21Then Makai Lemon, who like Casey was a first round pick.
153:24Like he's been running all the routes all year.
153:27So I, I, I guess I just see the Aminra comparison.
153:30The game I said before his first double digit target game, when he had four catches for 23 yards, he played 98% of the snaps.
153:36He was over, he was over 60% of the snaps in every game.
153:40He was over, he was mostly in the seventies and sometimes in the eighties and every game other than weeks two and three week one, he played 64%.
153:47This is, I don't have routes easily on his game log from 2021, but so I'm going at snaps, but by week
153:53four, he had played 72% in week four and he had a 70 yard game in week four.
153:58And then he played 70%, 78%, 62, 73, 61, 85, 98.
154:01And then he started hitting. And while he was hitting, he, he had a game that was 75, 69, but there was
154:07a lot more that were in the 95, 88, 84, 95 range.
154:10He was mostly playing every snap at late in that season.
154:13But I mean, again, whatever. Like my, my only point of bringing up Aminra is not, I don't think anyone's game long
154:19is ever going to look like Aminra's again. I want to be very clear about that.
154:23This is a very unique rookie season. I'm not trying to pattern match.
154:27The only reason I'm bringing it up and he had more production earlier, the 70 yard game in week four, 65 yard game in week five.
154:34Then lemon has had or concepcion for that matter.
154:36He was actually doing some stuff. He was earning targets.
154:39He was doing some stuff. Having said that it is a reminder for me.
154:43His game log is always a reminder for me.
154:45When I think about these situations of, because what happened this year, I had him on a team with Sean and we got the team into the sprint.
154:53And after the first couple of games, we had 10 plus targets.
154:56Sean wanted to put them in our lineup over our, one of our early draft picks, which was Terry McLaurin.
155:01I think we took a corn in the third round.
155:04And it's the year that me and Sean both kind of developed a little bit of a hatred for Terry McLaurin.
155:09Cause we paid up for Terry McLaurin and this team was awesome.
155:13And he couldn't do anything all year for us.
155:15And I made the case during the sprint. If we were going to win the thing, we were going to win it through our third round pick.
155:22We needed to play McLaurin over Aminra. And he was like, dude, two straight 12 target games, two straight great games.
155:28We need to play Aminra. We did not. We ended up playing Aminra.
155:32The back two games of the sprint, but he had already had two good games.
155:36We didn't play him in that first game of the sprint.
155:38Aminra had a great game, eight for 90 in a touchdown.
155:41Terry McLaurin did nothing. And it was a really big bummer.
155:44Cause we had this discussion over the starting lineup spot with a really good team in the first week of the sprint to lose all those points.
155:52And I didn't understand how quickly a guy could go from being what he was all year.
155:56When I was writing stealing signals all year, I was saying, he's just not really doing anything.
156:01He's just catching a few balls. He's doing a couple of little things.
156:04He's not really doing anything. He's not really doing enough for me.
156:08He's playing quite a lot. He's not doing enough to suddenly being the focal point of the entire offense in a three and 13 loss season.
156:14Now, to your point, the lions were a fun team at Jared golf.
156:18Maybe the Eagles offense can't get there. I guess I may be too optimistic in Tanner McKee and there's an uncertainty there for me.
156:24I guess I don't, I'm not uncertain with Deshaun Watson.
156:27I feel pretty confident that Deshaun Watson is not going to be good enough for Concepcion, but that's a interesting.
156:32I'll just say the numbers. So high Q three for me for Concepcion.
156:36I mean, the point that I was, I was trying to make was just, even though I think he's better than a
156:42lot of the guys that we talked about at the beginning, I'm throwing more of them into tier two.
156:47Cause there's more uncertainty because there's more upside because there's that untapped element where there were just starting to see the rise.
156:53Sadiq to me would be like, honestly, probably a Q four back in Q three, Q four guy for redraft.
156:58It's just like, especially with Cooper, especially with Cooper hitting.
157:01Cause I mean, now there's like, they were already being ridiculous with this usage, but now there's like less incentive to make
157:07him a featured part of the passing game. Because they have another exciting rookie that they can feature.
157:12So we're talking about like, you don't think there's anything like health related and like, like he's still there mid first round
157:18pick that they will want to go back to him late in the rookie season.
157:22I feel like, I think they'll want to go back to him and extend, but like, but, but now it's like Gary Wilson.
157:28He's also shown, he's shown skills. He has. Yeah.
157:30I mean, but Gary Wilson's a superstar. Omar Cooper's around one.
157:33Rookie was an easier to fit role who now looks like potentially a stud.
157:37Yep. Maybe Mitchell's a decent target earner. So it's like, I guess it's just, it's becoming a parlay now where I need Sadiq to get the routes.
157:44And I need him to then find a way to produce.
157:47And what's become kind of a crowded offense. That's also not that good of an offense.
157:51And it's an offense that like their preference would be to just run at 50 times if, if they can.
157:57So I just think it's a, so that's Q4.
157:59That's a little bit more of a, you're saying it's a flyer.
158:02And that's, that makes sense. Yeah. Like in a shallow, in like a shallow Yahoo league, I would probably be cutting him.
158:08Even if I don't want to. It doesn't feel great.
158:11Handcuffs. So we didn't talk about the handcuffs yet, but Emmett Johnson, Mike Washington, Seth McGowan.
158:15Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Rapid fire. Like Emmett.
158:18I mean, I guess he's like almost definitionally Q3 in the sense that you can never start him without an injury, but
158:24he would be like the first pick of Q3.
158:26Like, yeah, he's, I think he's, I think he's, yeah.
158:29I was going to say late Q2. You, you defined the quarter.
158:32So if, if it's acceptable to put him at Q2, then I'll put him at Q2.
158:37I mean, I think he's the best hand. I think you take the really good handcuffs at late Q2 sometimes.
158:42I mean, in drafts for sure. I'm in on that.
158:45I'll, I'll say Washington. We always make that argument in draft season.
158:48You can take your upside running backs before you're like early season starters.
158:51Right. And that, that happens. I, this is a great running game.
158:55He's a, we think he's a really good prospect.
158:57We think he has a number two job lockdown.
158:59I think you could say he's a round eight pick that should be late Q2.
159:03That's, that's totally fair. Uh, Washington would be, I'll, I'll say, I'll say late Q2, because I, I guess like, I just,
159:09it's, it's getting harder and harder for me. I mean, I'll, we don't, we're not going to have like the time to have a big discussion about Jenty.
159:17Maybe we will in a later episode. I'm probably more on the side of his struggles are health related than his struggles
159:23are skill related, but I could be wrong. You had some good notes on in your take column.
159:28So go, people can go check that out for sure.
159:30You had some good notes on. I mean, yeah, what I would mostly say is like, if you're, if maybe it is
159:36skill related and I'm wrong, but even if we accept my premise that it's, that most of Jenty's struggles are health related,
159:42like, I guess I'd just be surprised if it's like, he just keeps playing every week.
159:46And then all of a sudden, bang, he looks healthy and great again.
159:50Like I feel like either he's going to need time off to actually rest or he's just going to keep playing inefficiently.
159:56And then he's going to lose Mike work to Mike Washington.
159:59Like, so kind of either way, that would be a win for Mike Washington.
160:03I think of all of the running backs, like Jenty is probably the most likely to have to miss time right now
160:08of starters because he's playing through multiple. Okay. This is not rapid fire though.
160:12Emma Johnson or Mike Washington. Who are you taking?
160:15Emma Johnson or Mike Washington. I'd take Mike Washington.
160:17You would rather roster him. So he's a clear Q2 guy.
160:20I think I'm taking Emma Johnson still. I just think he's a better player.
160:24And I think there's a higher ceiling. Seth McGowan.
160:26Where, where are you rapid firing him? Q3, but like a priority Q3 guy.
160:30Cause you have the chance of injury. You have the chance of shutdown.
160:33You have the chance of trade. Yep. Deeper guys, Josh Cameron, Ted Hurst, Cyrus Allen, any of the Miami guys, Zachariah Branch,
160:39any of those hit Q3 for you? Uh, those guys kind of feel like flyers to me.
160:44Maybe not, but I'll just, I'll just say that if my favorite one of the group would be Josh Cameron.
160:49Okay, good. I was going to say we, we, I wish we had more time for a longer discussion on him.
160:55Cause you, but we were pretty into Hunter this week.
160:58I think part of Hunter's like issue is that Josh Cameron actually played a season high snaps and routes.
161:03You had said in one of our waiver discussions, he's doing some of the dirty work for them.
161:08And I was looking at that. He hasn't run a ton of routes, but he has had some receiving production for them.
161:14I actually think I was like, I guess I hadn't thought of him that way.
161:18I haven't watched the games. I felt like they've, and they've used him in the red zone.
161:22Some like they'd seem to like him in certain like packages in close for like, he's had a couple of touchdown catches.
161:28He's had some other targets in there. So Cameron would have been one of my favorites as well.
161:33Ted Hearst, I think is also still intriguing enough.
161:35Cause Ibuka looks terrible. Yeah. Why are they splitting Ted Hearst routes with Ted Johnson?
161:39It's really weird. That's weird. But I, I, I was like, I've been moving Ted Hearst down based on that.
161:45And then reading your signals last night, got me like a little bit back excited about Ted Hearst.
161:50Cause I was like, right. Like they do need juice in this offense.
161:53And he's the only guy. They're like, they're using him late in games.
161:56Still. It's weird. Like they, they think he's their go-to guy in some of these big spots.
162:01That they've been in. And yet they aren't. The only guy who can catch a 20 yard pass.
162:06I know, but they, they've been cutting his rap routes to it.
162:09It's very weird. Any, uh, last minute thoughts. We do have to go.
162:13Uh, no, uh, thanks a ton for your patience and listen to this, uh, episode that we tried really hard to make
162:19short, but was two hours and 41 minutes anyways.
162:21And, uh, yeah, I was absolutely last. So, uh, this was fun and we'll see you guys next week.
162:26Yeah. Enjoy your concert, Jacob. Thanks for listening guys.
162:28Bye. Bye.

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