PodcastFrom Establish The Run
What Fantasy Players Need To Know About 2026 NFL Offensive Lines with Brandon Thorn (Episode 999)
STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.
1 hr 4 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jul 22, 2026
Published
Wed, July 22, 2026
25
Player insights
20
Players mentioned
Topics
Dameon PierceDavid MontgomeryJosh JacobsJustin HerbertTua TagovailoaAaron RodgersCarnell TateChris OlaveJalen HurtsJared GoffJaylen WaddleJonathan TaylorJordyn TysonJuwan Johnson
Player analysis
Player insights
Aaron Rodgers
NegativeRole25:06
Aaron Rodgers gets the ball out quickly, maybe too quickly, which affects offensive line evaluation and pass protection demands.
Insight pageCarnell Tate
NegativeValue13:33
Carnell Tate is ranked below Jordan Tyson in the speaker's rankings, contrary to the market. The Titans offensive line is poor, which hurts deep threats like Tate; without pass protection, the ball cannot get downfield efficiently.
Insight pageChris Olave
PositiveValue13:00
The speaker is drafting Olave in the second and third round, citing the Saints' improved offensive line ranking (tier two) and Kellen Moore's run-game emphasis as supporting factors for the Saints passing game environment.
Insight pageDameon Pierce
NegativeProjection54:17
Brandon Thorn characterizes Pierce as a 'dead zone back'—a player whose scheme won't elevate him and who won't break off explosive runs. Pierce is projected for a round 4–5 ADP primarily because of volume (300 touches), not because of efficiency or upside. Thorn has only 5–6% of Pierce in his rankings, indicating significant skepticism about his fantasy value despite the workload.
Insight pageNegativeMatchup54:45
The co-host notes that optimism about Pierce hinges on the Texans defense dominating and providing favorable field position, which would funnel Pierce goal-line opportunities and bunny touchdowns rather than relying on his ability to generate explosive plays.
Insight pageDavid Montgomery
NegativeRole21:53
Brandon Thorn indicates the Lions will reduce David Montgomery's offensive role, getting him off the field more in favor of Jahmeer Gibbs, signaling a decline in his usage and opportunity share despite the Lions' projected high touchdown total.
Insight pagePositiveProjection51:52
Brandon Thorn expresses optimism on David Montgomery with the Texans despite historical inefficiency in their running game. Thorn kept Montgomery at the bottom of tier four (not tier five) due to newness of the offensive line, which features three new starters including veterans Wyatt Teller and Braden Smith, plus rookie center Keelan Rutledge, who Thorn views as a potential difference-maker with better physical tools than Jake Andrews. The Texans also added swing backup Evan Brown and have Trent Brown as a quality backup tackle, creating an eight-deep offensive line with three-deep bench depth at center, guard, and tackle.
Insight pageJalen Hurts
NegativeRole50:19
Brandon Thorn notes that the Eagles' new offensive scheme under Sean Mannion and Chris Cooper will feature more Jalen Hurts on center, indicating a shift toward a run-first, zone-oriented, play-action system similar to the Shanahan/LaFleur archetype.
Insight pageJared Goff
PositiveProjection23:06
Brandon Thorn cites Jared Goff's elite time-to-throw efficiency (2.6 seconds, tied with Tua Tagovailoa for fastest in the league) combined with heavy play-action usage as a major reason for ranking the Lions offensive line at 13th overall; Goff's quick release significantly alleviates pass protection burden and supports the floor of the Lions' offensive line despite recent downgrades.
Insight pageJaylen Waddle
NegativeMatchup4:37
When Jaylen Waddle was healthy alongside Tua Tagovailoa and Tyreek Hill in Miami's offense under Mike McDaniel, the Dolphins' offensive line was not particularly talented (ranked in the low 20s by Brandon Thorn), yet the system still produced high yards per play and EPA efficiency; this context supports optimism about the Chargers' offensive line ceiling under McDaniel despite not elite personnel.
Insight pageJonathan Taylor
PositiveUsage43:16
With Daniel Jones potentially losing mobility coming off an Achilles injury, Jonathan Taylor could see increased checkdown volume and pass-catching opportunities; he was already strong in the passing game last year and may catch more passes as a result of Jones's reduced mobility.
Insight pageJordyn Tyson
PositiveValue13:00
The speaker has Jordan Tyson ahead of Carnell Tate in rankings, a controversial stance that differs from the market. The preference for Tyson is driven by environment; the Titans offensive line is poor, which hurts deep threats like Tate, whereas Tyson benefits from a better offensive line situation.
Insight pageJosh Jacobs
PositiveRole53:22
The Raiders' offensive line upgrade—anchored by Tyler Linderbaum's free-agent signing and Colton Miller's return from injury—combined with Rick Dennison's 30-year Shanahan tree coaching pedigree and Clint Kubiak's proven infrastructure, elevates the floor of the run game from a terrible situation to above-average at minimum; the play-action heavy, zone-oriented system is designed to support the running back role.
Insight pagePositiveProjection56:52
Brandon Thorn expects Josh Jacobs' yards before contact to improve significantly under the Kubiak system compared to last year's horrific baseline; Thorn cites the play-action heavy, zone-oriented run game and upgraded coaching infrastructure (Rick Dennison, Clint Kubiak) as reasons to be comfortable drafting Jacobs at 11, 12, 13, or 14 overall, noting that the Raiders' offensive line will no longer consistently hit him in the backfield on touch.
Insight pageJustin Herbert
PositiveMatchup2:25
Justin Herbert plays significantly better when the Chargers have both Rashawn Slater and Joe Alt healthy. The Chargers are expected to enter 2026 completely healthy at both tackle positions, which should improve Herbert's performance.
Insight pagePositiveValue8:08
Brandon Thorn drafts Justin Herbert plenty in deeper leagues, indicating confidence in his value and role in an offense that Thorn wants to be on.
Insight pageJuwan Johnson
PositiveValue13:00
The speaker has started drafting Juwan Johnson, citing the Saints' tier-two offensive line ranking and Kellen Moore's run-game emphasis as reasons to target Saints pass catchers.
Insight pageKeaton Mitchell
PositiveValue8:08
Brandon Thorn drafts Keaton Mitchell plenty in deeper leagues, indicating confidence in his value and role in an offense that Thorn wants to be on.
Insight pageLamar Jackson
PositiveProjection27:41
Brandon Thorn sees upside for Lamar Jackson to run again and match Josh Allen's production in the new offensive system, though downside scenarios exist with offensive line and system transition concerns.
Insight pageOmarion Hampton
NegativeValue4:54
Brandon Thorn and the Establish The Run team are high on Marion Hampton as a prospect, but the market is taking him 13th-14th overall in the draft, which they view as overpriced relative to their evaluation; this represents a mini fade despite their positive view of his talent.
Insight pageSaquon Barkley
NegativeRole50:25
Brandon Thorn notes that the Eagles are implementing a new scheme under their new coordinator, moving toward outside zone running, which Saquon may not have extensive experience with; however, Thorn remains optimistic about the Eagles' offensive line bounce-back despite scheme uncertainty.
Insight pageTre Harris
PositiveValue8:08
Brandon Thorn drafts Trey Harris plenty in deeper leagues, indicating confidence in his value and role in an offense that Thorn wants to be on.
Insight pageTua Tagovailoa
NegativeMatchup4:37
When Tua Tagovailoa was healthy alongside Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle in Miami's offense under Mike McDaniel, the Dolphins' offensive line was not particularly talented (ranked in the low 20s by Brandon Thorn), yet the system still produced high yards per play and EPA efficiency; this context supports optimism about the Chargers' offensive line ceiling under McDaniel despite not elite personnel.
Insight pageNegativeProjection23:06
Brandon Thorn references Tua Tagovailoa as having the same elite time-to-throw efficiency as Jared Goff at approximately 2.6 seconds, the fastest in the NFL, as a comparative benchmark for quarterback efficiency in pass protection.
Insight pageTyreek Hill
NegativeMatchup4:37
When Tyreek Hill was healthy alongside Tua Tagovailoa and Jaylen Waddle in Miami's offense under Mike McDaniel, the Dolphins' offensive line was not particularly talented (ranked in the low 20s by Brandon Thorn), yet the system still produced high yards per play and EPA efficiency; this context supports optimism about the Chargers' offensive line ceiling under McDaniel despite not elite personnel.
Insight pageFull transcript
Episode Transcript
0:00Hello and welcome to Episode 999 of the official EstablishTheRun.com podcast.
0:04My name is Adam Levitan. I am one of the co-founders here at ETR.
0:08As always, joined by fellow co-founder Evan Silva. And today we are joined by a very, very special guest.
0:14It is the planet's premier offensive line evaluator. He's been rubbing elbows with the NFL's best offensive lineman and defense lineman again this offseason.
0:22He's a voter in college football offensive line awards.
0:25It is the one and only Brandon Thorn of ETR and the Trench Warfare Substack.
0:30Brandon, great to see you. How's it going, buddy?
0:33Good to see you guys too. It's going great.
0:36Excited to do this as always, man. Every year I look forward to it.
0:41And it feels good to have the rankings out there as of yesterday.
0:45So, yeah, big box checked and defensive line coming next.
0:48Nice. Yes, if you are a DraftKings Pro subscriber, you can access all of Brandon Thorn's offensive line rankings and write-ups right now.
0:56Evan, how's it going today? It's going great. A couple weeks ago, I had the opportunity to drive Brandon Thorn back from New Buffalo to Chicago.
1:05Just pick his brain for 90 minutes. Just a wealth of information.
1:09Sent him to Pequod's when we got to Chicago.
1:11He enjoyed it. And now, yeah, his article, this article, I feel like this is the best article you've done.
1:18And you've been doing this, what, since we started, right?
1:21This is like year seven or year eight. And I think this is the most thorough article that you've written on the offensive line yet.
1:30One through 32. Tons of detail. Great job, Brandon Thorn.
1:33All right. On today's show, we are going to talk 2026 offensive line outlooks and how they will affect fantasy football.
1:40We'll also take some of your listener questions that you submitted here at the end.
1:45Before we get into it here today, reminder, training camp is indeed upon us.
1:49If you have a fantasy draft coming up, we can help.
1:53Our NFL early bird bundle product is now live.
1:56That combines DraftKings Pro, aka Silva's Top 150, all our ETR ranks, all of my context and strategy that's coming in August,
2:03combines that with our in-season product, aka all our projections, premium shows, Silva's matchups, tons more.
2:08For details on the bundle or just DraftKid Pro, which is where Brandon's article is, head to the subscribe tab on establishtherun.com.
2:16All right. Let's get into it here on 2026 offensive lines.
2:19Brandon, I want to start with units we expect to be significantly better this season.
2:24The first one that came to mind for me was just an injury thing.
2:29And we've been talking about this all offseason. When the Chargers have Rashawn Slater and Joe Alt healthy, the numbers are stark.
2:36I mean, Justin Herbert plays significantly better. Obviously, they will enter this year completely healthy.
2:41Brandon, I was thrilled to open up the rankings and find the Chargers at five overall.
2:46So, Brandon, what do you think about this line?
2:49And is everybody too excited about the Mike McDaniel, Rashawn Slater, Alt stuff going on with Chargers?
2:55Well, no. You know, in my opinion, I think it's warranted.
2:59And you start with the tackles. I think that pairing is one of the two or three best in the league, hands down.
3:06There is some variance there, obviously, with both returning from season-ending injuries, especially Slater's being more serious with a patella injury to his knee.
3:14But all things that I've heard is like he's going to be ready to go.
3:19Sometimes those injuries take some time, even if he's ready to go, to really reclaim 100% of play strength and things like that.
3:27But even if he's 80%, 85%, I think that's reasonable.
3:3080%, 85% of Rashawn Slater is still really, really good.
3:33So, you know, you start there. And I think Beatish at center, those are the top three guys.
3:39And then the guards, I think, will be fine.
3:42Especially when you're talking about this system upgrade that I think they're undergoing with Mike McDaniel coming in and just how much
3:49that raises the floor of an offensive line like it did in Miami.
3:54We have the data, you know, in terms of – or the film, I should say, which is the evidence of what
4:01he did in Miami raising the floor there for that offensive line.
4:05And this is a better offensive line with a better quarterback.
4:08And, you know, so – and I'm super interested to see the dynamic between him and Harbaugh in terms of the run game.
4:16I'm sure this is going to look a little different too.
4:20So, yeah, I'm super excited about it. High on this unit.
4:23And I think the floor is high because of the infrastructure.
4:27And then the ceiling is high because of the personnel.
4:30Yeah. I mean, Evan, when the Dolphins were humming, when Tua was healthy and Tyreek was healthy and Waddle was healthy and
4:37A-Chan was humming, their offensive line was not that talented.
4:41Thorne consistently had them in like the low 20s.
4:44And yet they were still under McDaniel able to produce these really high yards per play EPA type stuff.
4:50So I'm pretty optimistic about it. We do have like this mini fade.
4:54Like we're high on a Marion Hampton, but the mark is taking him like 13th, 14th overall.
5:00So, Evan, any thoughts on Chargers stuff after hearing and reading Brandon's outlook here?
5:04Yeah. Everything that you just said, Adam, ties into the biggest takeaway that I had from picking Brandon Thorne's brain on that ride from New Buffalo to Chicago.
5:14And that was that Brandon Thorne, you know, we talk about like skill position players.
5:19We talk about, you know, quarterback, the talent level of the quarterback.
5:23And we definitely talk about scheme. We know that coaches impact the way that dudes are going to produce at the skill positions.
5:30But Brandon was like very adamant that the scheme for offensive line is almost more important than the parts themselves.
5:37And that especially ties in with Mike McDaniel and like what he was able to do with Aaron Brewer.
5:43Aaron Brewer, super undersized center. Yeah, was not even drafted out of Texas State in 2020.
5:48And Brandon like thought that Aaron Brewer should have won protector of the year last year.
5:54That was that new award that, you know, is voted on by offensive linemen in the NFL or Hall of Fame offensive,
6:01Hall of Fame offensive linemen like Jason Kelsey, who will be eventually, I think Orlando Pace.
6:06But yeah, like what he, what Mike McDaniel was able to do for a guy like Aaron Brewer undrafted, not really highly even regarded.
6:14And then all of a sudden last year, like Brandon Thorne thinks that he might be the best offensive lineman in the
6:21NFL, at least for that particular season in that scheme.
6:24I don't know. Do you want to expand on that at all, Brandon?
6:29I mean, that was really, really interesting. And how much that that raised my confidence level in the Chargers going into 2026.
6:36Yeah, it's something that's been building for me just in my observations of the line and trenches over the last few years.
6:43I just think that really as like the Shanahan tree has continued to expand across the NFL and Mike McDaniel being another guy in that tree.
6:52I think that that has elevated the floors of offensive lines and somewhat offenses to across the league more than the prior
6:59few years when I started like 2015, 2016 watching film where it was a little bit more personnel driven.
7:05Whereas now I think because of offensive play callers and coordinators ability to mitigate pressure through the things that they do with
7:13how they set things up in terms of, you know, run pass, play action, building in help with condensed formations.
7:19There's so many different ways of doing it. And I think just more coaches are doing it now.
7:25So the way I look at it simply is just like the infrastructure scheme coaching.
7:30That's the floor really of an offensive line. And then the personnel can determine the ceiling.
7:35So I just think there's more high floors across the NFL now because of all the, you know, different ways that coordinators
7:43are kind of masking weaknesses in pass protection specifically.
7:46So yeah, I think Mike McDaniel's kind of at the forefront of that, but there's, there's a lot of them.
7:52Yeah. And like we've been nitpicking on Amari and Hampton, like for best ball stuff where he's going really, really high.
7:59We're like one or two spots behind market there.
8:02I mean, in a season long league, I would not have a problem taking Amari and Hampton.
8:08And then of course, in some of these deeper leagues, I take Keaton Mitchell plenty and Justin Herbert plenty and lad and
8:15Trey Harris and, and, you know, an offense that I definitely want to be on.
8:20And Brandon's ranking here, I think solidifies that. All right.
8:23Another unit we expect to be better, Brandon, one that we've talked about saints up to seventh.
8:29Obviously they make the big splash in free agency with David Edwards.
8:33They're also getting guys back healthy here. This is a Kellen Moore offense.
8:37Unlike the Mike McDaniel offense, Kellen Moore offenses are going to play very, very fast.
8:42So Brandon, how much better do you think saints offensive line can be this season?
8:47Yeah. I mean, I think at the end of the year, last year, week 16, 17 or so, I had them in like the late twenties.
8:55This year they upgrade really two spots because, you know, David Edwards, of course, is, is a big upgrade of left guard, but Eric McCoy coming back.
9:04I mean, that's part of the reason why I had the rating low after he got hurt.
9:10Um, he's the best player on the line, um, just in terms of his track record, his talent, everything.
9:16So, um, with, so it's a little bit fragile because McCoy's hurt pretty often.
9:21Um, and I think when he gets out of the lineup, not saying he will, but if, if he does, then it's
9:28going to be a pretty significant downgrade. Although this year they're a little bit more well insulated on the interior because now they have Edwards at least.
9:37So, yeah, I think having McCoy, you know, entering the season with Edwards there, you know, two young tackles that are, you
9:44know, have a pretty good chance of getting better.
9:47This system, um, you know, all, all of it put together, you know, they were a top 10 unit coming into the league in my opinion.
9:56So I have them at seven, uh, right at the bottom of tier two, you know, fringe kind of tier two, you
10:03know, you could say tier three ish, uh, but right there, you know, in the top 10.
10:09So yeah, there's a lot to like, uh, here, but just a little bit of caution there with maybe some injuries.
10:15Yeah. And this is another one, just like the chargers, Evan, that I've been drafting an insane amount of St stuff.
10:22Obviously makes it feel good to see them at seven.
10:26Any more St's thoughts, Evan? Um, yeah, actually when I talked to Brandon in, uh, in new Buffalo about the saints, he was a little bit more measured.
10:35I wonder, did you, as you, as you went and, you know, when you actually, you know, stake your claim to, you
10:42know, teams and you, um, uh, you know, you, uh, you, you look into the like when you're doing your article, your opinion might change a little bit.
10:51Is there something that like Kellen Moore brings to the table that could elevate, uh, the Saints offensive line?
10:58I know that Cesar Ruiz is a guy who's like a little bit more polarizing in terms of an offensive line, but
11:05they've used a lot of high picks on these offensive linemen in new Orleans.
11:09And obviously they gave David Edwards a bunch of money, but is there something that Kellen Moore brings to the table that
11:17could help, uh, the saints offensive line? Yeah. Yeah.
11:20I mean, I think the emphasis on the run game, um, and it being a multiple run game as well.
11:26Uh, I think that that has been on display, um, throughout his career, you know, as a play caller.
11:33Um, so I think anytime you're focusing on the run game, that's a point of emphasis and you're kind of leading things with that.
11:40And it winds up being a pretty efficient run game.
11:44Um, then I think that that makes everything else a little bit more friendly, uh, you know, a little bit more balanced,
11:51a little less predictable when you do have to pass.
11:54So I think that that's generally, you know, why I kind of like the Kellen Moore system and what it does for offensive line.
12:02And the reason why they're a little bit higher than maybe I thought before I was looking at all 32, uh, is,
12:09you know, the, the blend of youth that they have with some upside there.
12:14And especially with McCoy in the lineup, you know, like we're going into week one, ranking these lines, you know, I, I'm
12:21comfortable being where I am on them, you know, like low end tier two sort of unit, um, being a little bit more optimistic.
12:29However, like I would just kind of end by saying like, if McCoy's out of the lineup to me, it changes things,
12:36uh, maybe not quite as much as it would have, or as it did last year, because Edwards is there now.
12:43So I think at the end of the day, you know, there's, I'm, I'm a little bit more optimistic than I was,
12:51you know, a few weeks ago, you know, relative to the league.
12:55Well, we love to hear that. I mean, we, you are preaching to the choir here.
13:00We're drafting Tyler Shuck. We're drafting the RBs. I've got a ton of Jordan Tyson, Olave, you know, in the second and third round.
13:08I mean, I've started drafting Juwan Johnson. I'm sure you've been taking a bunch of them too, right?
13:14Adam. Oh yeah. And, and yeah, like we have Jordan Tyson ahead of Carnell Tate in the rankings.
13:20And that's been controversial. That is different than the market has it.
13:24It's just, for me, it's just environment is why I prefer Tyson.
13:28You know, I mean like, and you can read Brandon Thorne's ranks.
13:31We're not going to talk too much about the Titans today, but it is not good for Titans offensive line.
13:38And obviously it's very exciting. It's not good for a deep threat like Carnell Tate either.
13:43I mean, if you're not gonna be able to pass protect, it's going to be hard to get the ball downfield.
13:50Um, oh, Brandon mentioned how his rankings in season for anyone that's confused on that.
13:55Brandon does weekly offensive line, defense line mismatches for us.
13:58And then he also ranks every offensive line and defensive line each week.
14:03And that reflects injury. So as he was saying last year, if you read his week 16 article or something, the saints were near the bottom.
14:11Eric McCoy was out. Obviously they didn't have David Edwards, et cetera.
14:15So if you have the in-season product, you can read Brandon's week by week thoughts on offensive line.
14:21All right. Last unit that stuck out to me, Brandon, that we expect to be better.
14:26I'm so used to opening up your article and being like, well, Bengals offensive line sucks again.
14:32Hopefully Joe Burrow can stay upright. I was somewhat encouraged to see the Bengals up here at 14th in your rankings.
14:39Brandon, can they actually keep Joe Burrow upright this season?
14:42I think so. Yeah. Um, you know, relatively speaking better than they typically have, uh, you know, so I just, this is
14:50the first time all five starters are returning in the Joe Burrow era, which I think is helpful.
14:55Um, but really this is driven to me by the two Georgia guys, former Georgia Bulldogs and Dylan Fairchild and the Marius
15:03Mims, especially Mims, who I think is really turning into a, he is an above average starter right now.
15:09And I think he still has room to climb.
15:12So I think with him, I think this year he's pretty comfortably the best player on the line and he is very young.
15:20He's like, he's got to be like 23 or so.
15:23Um, so anytime that that's the situation that you're going into it with, with a young guy, kind of leading it off
15:30plus having three, I would call them solid level veterans and Orlando Brown, Ted Karras, Dawn Reisner, uh, with another young guy
15:37with a lot of upside and Dylan Fairchild. I think the coaching with Scott Peters is good as well.
15:44Um, he's in kind of an unorthodox effective coach that really equips players with a lot of sound technique and things like that.
15:51So like I, you know, the recipe here I think is in place to, to be a mid-level unit, uh, in the
15:58league, like a real strong middle-class sort of unit with, with some upside because of the youth at those two spots, like I said.
16:06So yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm pretty high on, uh, the Bengals, especially if you look at the last few years.
16:13I mean, uh, Evan, you might think I'm crazy.
16:16I think the Bengals, the numbers moved a bunch.
16:19I thought they were one of the best long shots, Superbowl takes.
16:23I think I took like 35 to one or something like that.
16:27I think the lines moved a lot, but not only do they have this improvement on the offensive line that Brandon's talking
16:34about, they have a legit stud corner in DJ Turner and they have Dexter Lawrence now, like maybe the defense can be manageable.
16:42Maybe the offensive line could be manageable. And then you get a healthy Burrow chase and T like I would not shock.
16:49Shock me if the Bengals are very, very, very good this season.
16:53Evan, any Bengals thoughts before we move on? Just love to hear it.
16:57I mean, I think that Joe Burrow is priced pretty reasonably in fantasy drafts this year.
17:03I've been getting a lot of T Higgins as well.
17:06Jamar Chase, obviously got to take in the top three.
17:09People will always kind of bang on Chase Brown, like, oh, he's not as talented as the elite RBs.
17:15He doesn't cost as much as the elite RBs.
17:18Number one, number two, I mean, he's, you know, the Bengals didn't bring in any kind of competition to challenge him for work.
17:26I did want to ask you though, Ted Karras is the Bengals center and Brandon Thorne just did a show with him.
17:33Was there anything that, you know, maybe just one thing that stood out, um, from your discussions with Ted Karras?
17:40Yeah. I mean, um, really a lot, you know, one thing that comes to mind is Jalen Rivers last year who played
17:47right guard to start the year and then eventually was replaced by Reisner.
17:51Um, he got better when he was starting and the way that Ted spoke about him, um, very favorably.
17:58Uh, I actually liked him too as a prospect coming out of Miami.
18:02So like all these things together kind of solidified to me that they have a nice backup guard.
18:08Um, and so I think their top six really is, you know, strong enough to where if one of the guards did
18:15get hurt, I don't think that the drop-off would be too extreme.
18:19So like that to me, him kind of signaling or singling him out during our discussion unprompted, um, with kind of my
18:26background of liking him already, you know, he was up and down a little bit, especially early when he started as a rookie last year.
18:35But yeah, I think, I just think that's kind of a nice thing to keep in the back of your mind that
18:42there's, there's a little bit of depth there on the inside at guard at least.
18:47So love it. You know, it's kind of nice.
18:50Yeah. Yeah. I'm super excited for, for Bengals just as a team this season.
18:54All right. Let's go to the other side of the coin here.
18:58Brandon units expect, we expect to be worse this season than maybe last year or people anticipated.
19:04I've, you know, like one of the reasons that we were able to get on the lions early before they kind of
19:11broke out as a legit contender each year was they had one of the NFL's best offensive line and the rest of
19:18the offense kind of caught up to that. Now they've lost some guys.
19:23They're down to 13th in your rankings. Brandon, how much of a concern is the downgrades on offensive line for the lions to you?
19:31I mean, there's, there's more concern than recent years just because of, I would say a new right tackle, Panay Sewell switching sides.
19:38So that's really, you know, it's not too concerning to me based on how I feel about the players.
19:44Uh, you know, I mean, Panay to me, when guys switch sides in general, um, you don't like that.
19:51You become a little skeptical, but I would say if it is a guy switching sides who has truly tier one, a
19:58plus plus talent, like a Tristan worse, like a Panay Sewell, I become less concerned.
20:03So, especially cause like Sewell's a natural left tackle, at least when he came into the league, played a little bit as
20:10a rookie during the preseason or whatnot. Um, but came in from Oregon as a left tackle.
20:16So I think having several months before the season to get back accustomed to that side, I think Sewell's going to be
20:23pretty comparable to what he was on the right.
20:26But then you also have a rookie right tackle now taking over his spot in Blake Miller, who I think is a
20:33solid mid-level kind of projection as a pro. Um, he's not going to be as good as Panay or anywhere close, but
20:40I don't think he's going to be somebody you really, really have to worry about either.
20:46Um, so I'm, you know, feeling okay about that.
20:49The inside at guard, you know, they're two young guards.
20:52So, you know, you have a third year player and a second year player, I believe in Christian Mahogany and Tate Ratledge.
20:59So that's just, there's, there's just variance there, um, in pass protection in particular, but I like their profiles, size, power, demeanor in the run game.
21:08Um, and then you add Cade Mays in the middle and now that's a, that's a pretty big upgrade from last year, uh, with Graham Glasgow.
21:16So just in terms of like the sturdiness that he's going to provide and sort of the, the ability to, um, create
21:24displacement in the run game, a little, allow them to get a little bit more closer to what they have with right now.
21:31He's not right now, but he's in that mold.
21:34Um, so, you know, there's, you could poke some holes here, but at the same time I have him at 13 because
21:41there's enough talent, uh, with Hank Fraley still there as an offensive line coach.
21:46And then just the style of kind of this offense as well, you know, kind of that under center play action, you
21:53know, sort of style that I think there's enough here to keep them above average, but, uh, maybe not quite, you know, elite like they were.
22:02Yeah. I mean, I think the lions, you know, I don't like hearing this, but my initial take was just that the
22:09lions are going to lead the NFL in touchdowns.
22:12They have such an incredible schedule and they're getting David Montgomery off the field more in favor of Jameer Gibbs.
22:19It's like, they're going to score an incredible amount of touchdowns.
22:22I don't love hearing this offensive line downgrade, but like Brandon said, still 13th overall.
22:27I think it's okay. Evan, any final thoughts on lions?
22:30I feel great about the lions. I mean, I think that what it seems to me like Thorne is just sort of
22:38ranking them a little bit conservatively because they got some young dudes that need to prove something and they got a lot of moving parts.
22:46I mean, they, everybody's moving except for like mahogany technically, you know, but I mean, he likes the individual parts.
22:53He likes Hank Fraley. I feel great about the lines.
22:56No, no reason for worry about the lines. I think.
22:59All right. And the infrastructure there too, like I touched on with Fraley, but the system, you know, like Jared Goff gets
23:06rid of the ball faster than any quarterback in the league.
23:10It's like him and Tua, right? Like time to throw is like, it's 2.6 or whatever seconds.
23:16Uh, you know, so that right there with the heavy play action and then a quarterback who does not hold onto the ball.
23:23It helps alleviate, uh, the burden and pass protection tremendously.
23:26So you have that as well. So that's, that's a big reason to why I have them at 13, because I think
23:34the floor is pretty high because of that. Yep.
23:37All right. Another unit we expect to be worse this season, the Pittsburgh Steelers check in at 19th overall.
23:43I just, I, it feels so fragile to me with Pittsburgh.
23:47You have a 43 year old quarterback. You have a new coach.
23:51You have an offensive line down to 19th. I don't know.
23:54Like they're super cheap though. I mean, Steelers are super, super cheap in best ball, but yeah, Brandon, how concerned are you
24:01on Steelers offensive line here coming into the season?
24:04I mean, it's, it's a lot of turnover, uh, really.
24:08I mean, you have four guys, you're either going to have four new starters slash two of those starters playing new positions.
24:15So it's Frazier at center, who is a total stud.
24:18He's the best player on the line. He's kind of keeping it together on the center there, um, of the line, but
24:25moving your right tackle and right guard, Troy Furtano and Mason McCormick, both to the left side where they came into the
24:33league as, so, you know, it's not totally out of left field because they both played on the left side in college.
24:40Um, I think it could probably be okay, but that invites some variance there, but those are the three best players on the line.
24:48So I think that they'll kind of, you know, wind up being solid, but the right side, you're going to have two
24:55new starters and you're going to have two inexperienced starters, whether it's two rookies and Jennings Dunker and Max Ianticore or Spencer
25:02Anderson and Dylan Cook, those four guys are competing for those two spots, but they've barely played collectively.
25:08So I think there's just a lot of variance on the right side.
25:13Um, so it's just, there, there's talent here with those top three.
25:16Um, but just, just a lot of variance here, man.
25:20So yeah, I, I settled a little below average on them.
25:23A lot of jobs like open to training camp competitions.
25:27It seems like on that right side is wide open.
25:30I mean, Dunker at Dunker certainly had some fans coming out.
25:34I had a bet on Dunker to go in round one of the draft.
25:38It didn't hit, but that was my idea. Yeah.
25:41Yeah. Yeah. That didn't work out. Yeah. Um, what, but what do you think about it?
25:46So, but Aaron Rogers does get the ball out quickly, maybe too quickly.
25:51At one point, James Campin, who is the Steelers offensive line coach now under Mike McCarthy, he was like regarded as maybe
25:58the best offensive line coach in the NFL, maybe like five to 10 years ago.
26:03Um, is there something? One of the, yeah. Yeah.
26:06Yeah. With the Packers. I mean, he was the guy there when they were turning fourth round picks, you know, into pro
26:13bowlers, TJ Lang, David Bakhtiari, Corey Lindsley, all those guys.
26:16So he was the, you know, the head coach or a head offensive line coach during that time.
26:22And I do think he's an above average, at least offensive line coach.
26:27So yeah, I mean, that's helpful in their projection and part of the reason why I'm not lower on them, but, uh,
26:34yeah, still personnel wise with, you know, the quarterback, like you said, being a little kind of, you know, who knows if
26:41he's just going to get hurt or, you know, you know, that's a little dicey as well.
26:47I mean, I'm new offensive system, you know, with the, the right side variants and even the left side to a degree,
26:54like, you know, I'm, I'm not very low on this offensive line really though.
26:59I mean, they're 19. So, you know, that's, that's, you could certainly win with that offensive line, but I think the give
27:06and take here, I mean, they could be 26 or they could be, you know, 13, you know, in week six, you
27:13know, I wouldn't be surprised either way. So it's kind of settled in the middle there.
27:18Okay. Let's stay in the AFC North for another unit that I'm somewhat concerned about.
27:23And that is the Ravens checking in at 21 overall.
27:27Not only do we have offensive line concerns here, we have Lamar coming off all the injuries.
27:32We also have a whole new system with Todd Monken gone and Declan Doyle in.
27:37And so, you know, I tweeted something positive about Lamar Jackson.
27:41Like I can definitely see it. I can see Lamar Jackson running again and going wild and like matching Josh Allen, but
27:48I can also see some downside scenarios where this new offense is a mess.
27:53The offensive line is a mess. So Thorne, how concerned are you about Ravens offensive line?
27:58I'm cautiously optimistic here. Honestly, I mean, you know, I have 21 teams in the top three tiers and Ravens are 21.
28:05So, I mean, I kept them in the top three tiers because, you know, you look at the personnel, especially signing Ethan
28:12Pochick, you know, two days ago or whatever, three days ago.
28:16So, that kind of settles one of the questions at center to a degree, at least.
28:21At least you have somebody experienced who's been on good lines who I think could be their fourth best starter here.
28:28You know, I was very high in Vanga Iani, who is starting at left guard.
28:33He's a rookie, a first-round pick. So, I think he has a good chance of being their third best starter pretty quickly.
28:40I think the tackles are the top two starters, Ronnie Stanley and Roger Rosengarten.
28:45Rosengarten, to me, as a run blocker, is very underrated.
28:48Pass protection is a little bit more of a question because he's undersized and not like the strongest guy in the world.
28:56A little bit like a Zach Tom type of guy, but very crafty in the run game, very athletic.
29:02So, I think with Dwayne Ledford, who I think is a really good offensive line coach coming over from Atlanta, Declan Doyle
29:09has a very interesting background, you know, being with Ben Johnson.
29:13And I think Sean Payton, like, those are two of the best infrastructures in the NFL.
29:18So, if he's, I don't know, 60% of those guys, Dwayne Ledford, this personnel, with John Simpson as your, you know, weak link, who is okay.
29:27I don't know. I mean, you know, I have them as a tier three unit.
29:31So, to me, that's a solid, solid unit, although at the bottom end of that because some variance.
29:37Sure. Evan, any Ravens thoughts? I think that the tiers that Brandon Thorne has put together kind of reflect that he thinks
29:45that, by and large, I mean, we've got at least a ton of offensive lines that he's projecting is competent.
29:51And for fantasy purposes, that's what we wanted. That's the floor thing I was talking about.
29:57For fantasy purposes, that's kind of all we, I mean, we'd love for every offensive line to be great.
30:03But all we really need to know is that an offensive line projects as competent, that they can be out there and
30:10they can get the job done, that they can get guys blocked and not get blown up play after play after play.
30:17You start to get worried, I think, when you get down into Brandon Thorne's rankings, where he's got a team of 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32.
30:26But I think that the Ravens at 21 feel good about him.
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31:50Sponsored by DraftKings. I want to move to some fantasy-specific questions here that I think matter for offensive lines.
31:56First one is Raiders. Evan just mentioned when teams are down here in the 26, 27, 30 range, there can start to be real concern.
32:04Raiders check in at 26 overall. They gave Tyler Linderbaum an insane contract.
32:09What people said was an insane contract in free agency, specific to run blocking.
32:13Let's talk about Raiders here. Thorne, what do you think about Gentty behind this line?
32:18So this kind of bleeds into probably another thing we're going to address, and that's offensive lines that would rank higher if
32:25this was a ranking system slanted or weighted towards run blocking, which it isn't.
32:30It's weighted towards pass protection. But if it was weighted towards run blocking, I think the Raiders would be, you know, a little bit higher in the 20s.
32:39Just because, I mean, this is a Kubiak system.
32:42This is Shanahan tree personified right here. You have Rick Dennison, who's coached Shanahan offensive lines for 30 years.
32:49You have Clint Kubiak, who has really been impressive last year, and even with the Saints before, you know, everybody got hurt that year a couple years ago.
32:58So I just think the infrastructure here is, it raised the floor.
33:02It took them along with the Linderbaum signing and Colton Miller coming back who was hurt all last year.
33:08It goes from terrible situation in coaching to what I think is going to be above average at the very least coaching
33:15and infrastructure with two new best players, essentially, in Colton Miller and Linderbaum.
33:19A lot of questions at the other three spots, which is why they're still here, but they're not in the bottom tier because of all those other things.
33:29This is going to be a play-action heavy, zone-oriented run game and system that is just going to elevate the floor to
33:36where, you know, they're not bottom tier. They're still obviously below average, but I don't know, man.
33:42The ceiling may be a little bit capped here, but this is kind of like the Seahawks last year where, like, everybody was pretty low on them.
33:50Everybody was worried about the Seahawks last year for sure, their offensive line.
33:55Of course, they stayed healthy for one, but then two, the system, man, I mean, just elevated everything.
34:01So I think that that's in the cards here to a certain degree.
34:05Well, the stat that everyone brings up on Gentry, Evan, is yards before he's touched, and it was, like, horrific last year.
34:12I mean, basically every time he touched the ball, he was hit in the backfield.
34:17I do not expect that to be the case with Kubiak, and to me that is, like, the number one reason that
34:24we can take Gentry at 11, 12, 13, 14, or whatever you want.
34:29So I'm comfortable with Gentry, comfortable-ish with Gentry there, I would say.
34:33Evan, any thoughts on Raiders, Gentry offensive line stuff?
34:36Yeah, it seems to me like this is another offensive line that at least has a decent chance to reach competency, and Thorne talks about the play action.
34:45I mean, that's Kirk Cousins' game. That's eventually going to be Fernando Mendoza's game.
34:49You know, I feel all right about the Raiders.
34:52I don't think that they're going to be blowing anybody away on offense and not with their offensive line, but I feel
35:00okay about the infrastructure in large part because of the coaching, because of Clint Kubiak.
35:05Yep. Okay. Next fantasy question is, we've talked a ton, Brandon, this offseason about the Packers' pass game because we think they
35:12could get more pass-heavy, and it's going to be more concentrated after they got rid of Wicks and Romeo Dobbs.
35:18So I'm pretty excited about Packers' pass game. I was concerned, though, to find the Packers at 29 overall in Brandon's rankings.
35:26Where are the Packers going wrong here in pass protection, Brandon?
35:29Yeah, this is the one team that I was expecting the most pushback for, and this is the one that I wrestled
35:37with the most because I've never viewed the Packers' offensive line this low in the eight years I've been doing this, I think, with you guys.
35:45So, yeah, I mean, you know, you start with kind of what is keeping them afloat to some degree, and that's the system.
35:53You know, just continuity there in terms of coaching and Matt LaFleur being a Shanahan disciple again and just sort of his
36:00ability to scheme up help and pass protection is among the best in the league, along with Jordan Love being very good
36:07at not allowing pressures to turn into sacks and things like that and being a good creator.
36:13So that's the optimistic kind of side to where they could be a little bit better than this.
36:19But the reason why they're solo to me is simply just like the personnel is very, very underwhelming in my opinion.
36:26I mean, Zach Tom is far and away your best player coming off an injury who I've always been a little lower
36:33on than most just because he's like a little bit more undersized, not like the most stout presence.
36:39He's fine in this system, but like he's far and away your best player, and then you got, I mean, you have four question marks everywhere else.
36:48I think Sean Ryan is at center, is kind of the guy you latch on to as being like the second best
36:55guy, you know, who has the best chances of being your second best starter.
37:00But like the hierarchy here and the personnel is just not good in my opinion.
37:05So yeah, it really caps them in my opinion.
37:07So there's a stark contrast here between the environment and the infrastructure and the scheme and the personnel.
37:13So it's, yeah, I'm a little worried about it, honestly, just because of that personnel.
37:18It's a little discouraging because the Packers have, it's not like they have given up on the offensive line or not paid attention.
37:26I mean, they have invested in the offensive line.
37:29Jordan Morgan was a first round pick. Aaron Banks, they gave a bunch of money to, to get him from San Francisco.
37:36Sean Ryan, they gave him an extension last off season.
37:39Zach Tom, they signed him to a big deal two off seasons ago.
37:44Anthony Belton was a second round pick. So it's not like they're, they're ignoring their offensive line.
37:49It's just the personnel. It's, it's a little bit discouraging.
37:53I, I, I think it may even lead to, especially with, I think there's going to be problems defensively for Green Bay
38:00this year, especially until Micah Parsons gets, gets back.
38:03I mean, I think it could lead to more pass happy environment.
38:07Um, you know, I mean, I, that, that's kind of what I'm banking on when I'm, when I draft Jordan Reed, when
38:14I draft Christian Watson, Matthew Golden, a little bit later, Tucker Kraft.
38:18I think they're going to throw the ball more.
38:21I don't know. Are they going to be able to clear lanes in the running game?
38:26Yeah. I mean, I, I don't have a lot of confidence in that.
38:30I mean, you're, you're banking on the quarterback being very good, which he is, and the play caller being very good, which he is.
38:38So that's, you know, some solace here, but like the personnel, man, just, you know, I, you know, the Morgan bank, you
38:46know, Morgan, Ryan, and Belton have a combined 14 career starts.
38:49So it's just a lot of variance there. And then the, the next most experienced guy, Aaron Banks, isn't very good.
38:56So it's just a ton of variance with four of the five starters.
39:00All right. Third fantasy question. I'm not sure if you're aware, Brandon, but people in the fantasy space are actually excited about Jets offense this season.
39:09Bruce Hall. I like Bruce Hall a lot. He goes very high.
39:13Garrett Wilson. I like goes high. 80 Mitchell has been one of the most popular sleepers as well.
39:19Jets check in at 18th here in your rankings.
39:22I got the feeling that some people wanted Jets to be higher.
39:26Like they think they have more talent than maybe 18th overall here.
39:30Brandon, any thoughts on Jets being able to survive, being able to create a functional offense here this season?
39:36Yeah, this, this one's interesting. A little bit of the inverse of what we just talked about with the Packers in terms of personnel and system.
39:45I'm, I'm very high on the personnel because of the top two at tackle, the Olufushanu and Armand Membu.
39:51I mean, they're 23 and 22 years old, and this is a top five overall tackle pairing in the NFL.
39:57I mean, like they're in a great position in terms of the hierarchy of the room, um, talent wise.
40:04And then Tippman last year, uh, got resigned this off season, had the best year of his career, right guard, which he
40:11kind of stumbled into that, um, due to injury.
40:14And then Josh Myers stepped in at center when he had to move over to account for the Elijah Vera Tucker injury.
40:21So that, that worked out great for them. So that's their top three.
40:25And then I think Myers and Parham are fine, good enough, you know, they're okay below average, you know, but I don't
40:33necessarily see either of them being super, super concerning.
40:36So having that top three and that five overall construction, um, very optimistic about, however, you know, having Frank Reich, you know,
40:43as your offensive coordinator, Steve Hyden, as your offensive line coach, like at least recently, I, I don't know how you could
40:50be super optimistic about the positions that they're going to be put in.
40:54Um, not to mention, you know, the quarterback situation and, you know, so I think things around them, uh, with the infrastructure is dicey.
41:02Um, and that's why I settled at 18, but I, I do like the personnel.
41:07I mean, every time I want to get super high jets, Evan, I'm like, God, I do not have too much money on Aaron Glenn and Frank Reich.
41:17Like just don't, just, just don't, you know what I mean?
41:20It worries me a little. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, Evan, any thoughts on jets offensive line?
41:26I feel like you were high on their personnel that the jets have on the offensive line also.
41:32Yeah, definitely. So I think that the way that Brandon Thorne summed that up, you know, especially, you know, tying it into
41:39what we were talking about at the top where it's like system over personnel with these offensive line.
41:45I mean, you, you look at the, the personnel that the jets have up front and it's like, man, we could really
41:52get behind this, but it's like Frank Reich has not had success in the NFL in like a while.
41:58And we know, I mean, Aaron Glenn was so bad in year one that he had to fire everybody on the coaching staff except for himself.
42:07So, um, yeah, it's the infrastructure. It makes perfect sense the way that Brandon analyzed it.
42:12All right. Last fantasy question, Brandon, are there any offensive lines that would really jump up a lot in the rankings?
42:19If you were doing strict run blocking ranks, forget past protection for a second, forget past blocking.
42:25You mentioned the Raiders. You think it would be a little bit better if you were going off strict run blocking, any
42:32other units stick out to you that are big time better at run block?
42:37Yeah. I mean, there's three Chicago is number one, uh, Indianapolis, who was already high and Dallas.
42:42I think those three, if you're just talking strict run blocking would be a little bit higher.
42:48They're all already, you know, fairly high, um, because I think the overall infrastructure personnel is, is good already, but run blocking,
42:55they would all get a little bit of a bump.
42:58Um, the Rams are probably another one as well.
43:01Yeah. I mean, I've seen some people trying to poke holes in Jonathan Taylor.
43:06Jonathan Taylor was fantasy. It's tough. MVP. I mean, he was fantasy's literal MVP until Daniel Jones got hurt.
43:12And yeah, I mean, they are such a good run blocking offense line.
43:16And I, I don't think they're going to take JT off the field.
43:21Like I think he's going to play in the same way.
43:24Daniel Jones potentially losing some mobility coming off the Achilles.
43:28Like why? I mean, we should maybe expect a few more check downs Jonathan go in Jonathan Taylor's way too.
43:34I mean, he could catch more passes and he was really good in the passing game last year.
43:40Yep. Yep. All right. I want to get the listener questions before we do though, Brandon, I want to get your take on protector of the year.
43:49You know, we do these awards shows and I think awards are some of the best softest markets to bet, uh, in the sports betting space.
43:58There's gotten way more liquidity. Thanks to prediction markets, which has been awesome.
44:02Last year, this was the inaugural year of the award.
44:05Joe Tooney won. Um, I want to get your take on that, but I just want to be clear to people.
44:12Unlike other awards, this is only a six man voting panel and the panel is all offensive linemen.
44:18Jason Kelsey, Andrew Whitworth, Orlando pace with Charles Bentley, Sean O'Hara and will shield.
44:23So those are the only guys that vote on this award.
44:26Whereas for MVP and comeback and rookie and everything else, it's like 50 writers and stuff.
44:32These are actual offensive linemen. So Brandon, what'd you think of how the award went down last year?
44:38Did you think Joe Tooney deserved? To win. And what is your thought on Tooney coming in at 35 to one this year after winning it last year?
44:47Yeah, I thought that was defensible, you know, Tooney winning it.
44:50Um, I would have personally went Brewer. I thought he was the more impactful, um, blocker on tape, but, um, giving it
44:58to Tooney, uh, you know, was like, like I said, defensible.
45:01I think it was him. I think Brewer was a finalist.
45:05It was Garrett Bowles. I think maybe finished second.
45:08Um, Creed Humphrey was up there. Pade Sewell, Glenn Miners.
45:11I think those were kind of some of the finalists.
45:14Um, so I thought all those were, were pretty defensible, honestly.
45:18Yeah. So, yeah, I was going to read you the favorites for this year.
45:23So the favorites this year, Penny Sewell, five to one, Joe Alt, eight to one, Tristan Wirfs, nine to one, the ageless
45:30one, Trent Williams, 12 to one, Creed Humphrey, 14, Garrett Bowles, 14, Miners, 15, Milata, 16, Lindstrom, 18, Quentin Nelson, 18.
45:37So anything stick out to you initially looking here at protector of the year race?
45:42So there's, in my opinion, the two of the three best offensive linemen in football are not listed.
45:48Um, and that's Lane Johnson and Laramie Tunsil. So I would throw them out there.
45:53I don't know what their odds are. Lane Johnson is 20 to one and Tunsil is 35 to one.
45:59Yeah. I mean, you know, the, the Tunsil one's intriguing because of sort of the unknown, you know, with having a new system in place.
46:07Um, but based on my rankings too, especially past protection wise, that's driving their ranking.
46:12Um, I'm pretty high on what they can be because of Tunsil and Cosme, who I think is one of the best
46:19top two, um, linemen in a hierarchy across the entire NFL.
46:23So yeah, Tunsil to me, I mean, I think that's the one gripe I had last year with the protector of the year is Tunsil wasn't a finalist.
46:32I think if I didn't give it to Brewer, if I had a vote, it would have went to Tunsil because he was just that good overall.
46:41It was, I thought it was the best year of his career.
46:45Um, yeah. So, I mean, clearly the voters are looking somewhat at wins, right?
46:50Because like, yeah, Brewer, you know, when you play for a team that's dust, like it's hard to win these awards, you
46:57know, unless it's a player of the year or, or something like that.
47:01Um, we're 100%, et cetera. Um, okay. Got a ton of listener questions here.
47:06Want to get to as many as we can.
47:09First one from our own Mark Dankenbring. And I had a similar question for you as well.
47:14Based on like the way the Eagles offense fell apart last season, I was surprised Brandon, that they kept checking in.
47:21Oh, high. The rankings. And then this off season, they lose Jeff Stouten, who I know Brandon Thorne absolutely loves.
47:28Jeff Stouten. So I was surprised to see them check in still here at number two overall.
47:33So Thorne thoughts on the Eagles offense line. You're obviously still very high on them.
47:38And how much do you think if at all, the Stouten thing matters?
47:43I definitely think it matters. Uh, I think it could have mattered more in a different situation.
47:48If for one, if this was kind of more of a younger, maybe in flux offensive line, which I think long-term, you
47:56know, this Lane Johnson and Dickerson's health, you know, call into more questions.
48:00This was a ranking of the next two or three seasons, but because their top three players, not only are pretty much
48:07elite, you know, and Landon Dickerson, Jordan Malata and Lane Johnson, but also older and established, not having the everyday presence of
48:14a great all-time, great offensive line coach to me, doesn't matter as much for them because they're going to be who they are.
48:22Uh, regardless, it matters more so for a guy like Tyler Steen, who's their fifth best starter.
48:27But when you have a top three, who I think is better than any top three in the league, um, that's just carrying a lot of weight.
48:36And then when you add in the fact of, you know, just who they hired offensively, like I, I think that the
48:44floor here, you know, could be high enough. Um, I think it's Sean Mannion, an offensive coordinator, who's coming from, uh, being under Matt LaFleur.
48:52So, you know, just that sort of archetype of offense, most likely is what we're going to be seeing.
48:58And then they hire Chris Cooper, uh, an offensive line coach who is a Gary Kubiak disciple, Kevin O'Connell's offensive line coach
49:05for the last few years in Minnesota, all signs and indications based on, as well as conversations I've had with several of
49:13the players at offensive line masterminds, this is going to be a run first zone oriented play action system.
49:19It's going to be a Shanahan sort of system.
49:22So that to me kind of blunts, you know, kind of quiets that concern of losing Stoutland as well.
49:28So at the end of the day, you know, I mean, there's a little bit more fragility here, you know, with the
49:35wear and tear of Dickerson and Juergens having injuries and getting stem cells this off season and that sort of stuff.
49:42But I mean, Dickerson last year, he gutted out, you know, the, the season, um, he was like 60% of what he normally is.
49:50I'm assuming he's more closer to like 80, 85% of what he normally is.
49:55Like he's one of the best guards in football.
49:58Lane Johnson is the best offensive lineman in the NFL, especially if you're waiting pass protection.
50:03And then my lot is a dominant run blocker and good pass protector.
50:07Like, I don't know. I'm, I'm more than comfortable still betting that this is going to be a high end offensive line until maybe injuries tank it.
50:16But yeah, that's, that's really my hesitation is injuries.
50:19I mean, there's going to be some big changes.
50:22This is going to be a totally new scheme.
50:25They're talking about more Jalen hurts on their center.
50:28They're talking about running outside zone, which I'm not sure.
50:31Saquon has done a ton of. So I still really liked the Eagles to bounce back.
50:37I just thought Petula was so, so incompetent. It kind of masked everything, but yeah, there's certainly going to be a lot
50:44of changes, which introduced variants as Brandon said. All right.
50:47Second question is from DB. He says in 2024, you had saints offensive line, the bottom of your rankings.
50:53Kubiak had them looking significantly better when healthy. He did again with the Seahawks in 2025.
50:59Any offensive lines this year, you think could be better than the ranking because of a new awesome coordinator or play car.
51:06Yeah, we've kind of touched on this already, but anybody else that we haven't mentioned stick out from a scheme slash play caller perspective here, Brandon.
51:15Not necessarily. There's obviously a lot of turnover. It seems like every year, but the ones that stand out, we touched on,
51:22I mean the chargers, number one, Las Vegas would probably be number two, just because Kubiak.
51:27Um, so yeah, I would say any of the units that got into the, you know, kind of dip their toe into
51:34the Shanahan tree, always keep an eye out for that because I think that that is a legit floor raising sort of infrastructure.
51:42So, um, those are the two, I think that stand out most to me looking at it.
51:47Okay. Yeah. Uh, question three, I thought was an interesting one from Skubonic.
51:52He said David Montgomery and the Texans offensive line have been stirring the best ball street pots recently when looking at this
51:59Texans offensive line, are they looking better this year than last year?
52:03Were they really that bad last year or the running backs worse?
52:07And so I've noticed this also, Brandon, like no matter who the Texans put back there at running back, no matter who
52:14the offensive linemen are, it keeps changing. They cannot run the ball.
52:18I mean, they, they're just like so inefficient at running the ball.
52:22Do you think this is a systemic thing, a talent thing, et cetera?
52:26What do you think about David Montgomery behind this Texans offensive line?
52:30Yeah. I mean, I'm, I have some optimism here.
52:33It's the reason why I kept him at the very bottom of tier four and did put him in tier five, just
52:40because the newness here, uh, you know, with having three new starters, um, two of them being veterans and Wyatt Teller and
52:48Braden Smith, who, you know, are closer to the end than the beginning, but I think are definitely going to be, you
52:55know, adequate to solid, you know, at worst. That's what I'm expecting, at least between those two.
53:01And then I'm very high on the rookie that they have at center, Keelan Rutledge, who is playing a new position, but
53:08I think has real potential to be a difference maker there.
53:11He's certainly a better physical presence than what they had last year in Jake Andrews, who is still there by the way.
53:19And they signed Evan Brown, who I think is a really nice swing interior backup.
53:24And they have Trent Brown, who is probably the best backup tackle in the NFL.
53:29Um, you know, he's hurt all the time, but he's a really good pass protector.
53:34So I actually think they're three deep on the bench at center guard and, excuse me, and tackle.
53:39So that's actually kind of encouraging. Um, you know, all in all, this is like a, you know, an eight deep offensive line.
53:47Um, but I still worry about them in pass protection quite a bit with area on tier history, a left tackle at Ingram and right guard.
53:56They're two returning starters. I have a lot of concerns about in pass protection, um, you know, and then with why a teller's age and wear and tear.
54:05So like, yeah, it's, it's interesting to talk about the Texans, but I don't know.
54:10We'll, we'll see, you know, I think that the, that they could certainly get better this year and I'm having them better
54:17than they were last year going in for sure.
54:20Yeah. I think Evan, Dave Montgomery is going to get a really big workload this season.
54:25I'm concerned that he has traits of a dead zone back in that he's kind of just the guy, the scheme is not going to elevate him.
54:34He's not going to break off like 50 yard runs.
54:37And so I like the main reason that Dave Montgomery goes in round four, round five was just because, well, he has
54:45a really good chance to get 300 touches. That's like the definition of a dead zone back.
54:50So I'm like, I think I have like five or 6% David Montgomery, right now, Evan, any thoughts on Texans run game?
54:58Yeah, I've got very little, little of him as well.
55:01You know, I think you're, if you're, if you're trying to be optimistic about David Montgomery, you're hoping that the defense just
55:08dominates, gives the Texans great field position. And David Montgomery winds up running into a bunch of bunny touchdowns and just gets,
55:15you know, gets a bunch of goal line touchdowns.
55:18I wanted to ask Brandon about this, the Panthers offensive line though, because, you know, Ike Kwanu, Taurus Patellar tendon in the playoff.
55:26Like, I don't think he's going to play this year.
55:29I don't think he actually is ever going to play for the Panthers again.
55:34Um, and then they lose Taylor Moton to a blood clot thing that is going to cost him into the regular season.
55:41Taylor Moton is like the longest 10 tenured Panther.
55:44Um, and he's been really good for a long time.
55:47They did draft Monroe Freeling. I know when I talked to Brandon in, um, uh, in new Buffalo, he was not sure
55:55about his readiness, but what do you, I mean, this feels like a disaster waiting to happen.
56:00You know, what it kind of reminds me of is last year when Tampa Bay started losing offensive linemen early in the
56:07process, Werfs, obviously now Brandon has the bucks up at what number three overall, but this is not a good situation for the Panthers.
56:15I don't think, especially with how much they want to run the ball.
56:20Yeah. I mean that Mo, Mo, Mo Taylor Moton news came out yesterday, I think.
56:25So I just, um, updated the rankings as of the publishing.
56:28I dropped them, I think three or four spots.
56:31So now they're 25th. Um, it's, it's definitely a concern, uh, because, you know, going into the year with Monroe Freeling, trying
56:38to beat out Rashid Walker at left tackle was, was fine.
56:42But now, you know, most likely he's going to have to either play left tackle and Rashid Walker is going to play
56:49a new position or Monroe Freeling is going to play a new position right out of the gate at right.
56:56So either one of those scenarios, I'm not crazy about.
56:59Um, I think Damian Lewis is a really good guard.
57:02Robert Hunt, I think is high variance, but you know, a pretty, pretty good opposite guard.
57:08Um, he's coming off of an injury as well.
57:11Uh, he returned late in the year, but I think it was a tricep, excuse me.
57:16And then Luke Portner at center, uh, is okay.
57:19You know, uh, definitely better in the run game.
57:22I think, uh, zone oriented sort of run blocker.
57:25So yeah, man, I mean, I'm, I'm with you.
57:28I, I, uh, this one's pretty fragile to me, you know, I dropped him to 25, but it's just kind of up
57:35in the air now, you know, with Moten, like, are we expecting him back in week four or five or not at all?
57:43So kind of TBD, like going in, but well below average offensive line going in.
57:48Yeah. For sure. For anyone who has draft kit, you're able to, uh, access Brandon's rankings.
57:53He'll be updating those for injuries and we'll have plenty of injuries.
57:57I'm sure just like at skill positions, offensive lineman injuries throughout July and August here.
58:02Also. Yeah. I mean, on the Panther stuff, what's the ceiling on this offense with a poor offensive line?
58:08What's the ceiling on, on Bryce young. And like, I want to get really high on Ted Arroyo McMillan.
58:14Like he has the profile I want to bet on.
58:18I just question what the ceiling is with this offensive line and Bryce young, uh, back there under center.
58:24So yeah, it's kind of tough for me on Panther stuff.
58:27All right. A few more here. Lister questions to get to quickly.
58:31Matt says, why did the commanders cut Tyler B.
58:34Adash? Is he overrated or a good player? No one in Washington can really figure out why they cut him.
58:41And will their offensive line be worse as a result or not a huge impact?
58:46I didn't realize that people in Washington were up in arms, about Tyler B.
58:50Adash getting cut, Brandon, but here we are. Any thoughts on that and the commanders?
58:55No, I was pretty surprised by it as well.
58:58But I mean, I think ultimately they probably think that his best football is probably behind him.
59:04They're trying to be a year early rather than a year late.
59:08I mean, he battled a knee injury last year, uh, still played a lot and all that, but he wasn't quite as
59:15good as he was in 2024, which was the best year of his career.
59:20Um, however, I still think that there's enough left in the tank, especially as a run blocker, um, in the system he's
59:27in now in, in LA to, to be a well above average starter.
59:31But yeah, I mean, that's just, uh, one of those situations, especially at center where, you know, you have a guy like
59:39Nick Allegretti there who is a downgrade. He's not as athletic and good in the run game, but like, he could kind
59:46of patch it up for a year for you, allow you to save some money, you know, allocate resources elsewhere, that sort of thing.
59:54And, you know, so I, I mean, I could kind of justify it, but like it did catch me by surprise initially.
60:01Um, they did downgrade, but I don't think it's going to be super stark of a downgrade, to be honest.
60:08Yeah. Well, maybe they'll save that money to sign Stefan Diggs, which I think would be a very interesting landing spot for Diggs there with the commanders.
60:16All right. Last question before we let Brandon go here from Arthur.
60:20He says, which offensive line is most dependent on one guy?
60:24Which offensive, in other words, which offensive line unit has the biggest drop off from a specific injury?
60:30My first thought on this, Brandon was just immediately Lane Johnson.
60:34Like when the Eagles lose Lane Johnson, you can see everything gets markedly worse.
60:38I don't know if that's your answer or not, but yeah, any thoughts on Arthur's question here?
60:44I was thinking Trent Williams. Yeah. Trent Williams would have been my first answer for sure.
60:49I think Tristan worse is if they lose worse.
60:52I mean, that's, that's going to change things. Lane Johnson, it's the best players.
60:57I mean, if you lose, if one of your best players is a tackle, um, you know, you're going to, you're going to struggle.
61:05It was just the way it is. So yeah, those, those three, I think are the most obvious ones.
61:11Um, I mean, we saw what happened to the Bucks last year and, and that was like kind of a cluster of
61:18injuries, but my God, I mean, that was just, yeah.
61:21Yeah. That'd be another one. I'd say that, you know, the four best tackles in the league, you know, if you lose
61:29one of those guys, uh, Panay Sewell, that's another one.
61:32Like if you lose Panay, everything changes. So yeah, I'd say those four or five tackles are number one, Andrew Thomas.
61:39That's another big one. So, yep. Yeah. And we didn't cover the giants at all, but you can head to Brandon's article to read about every single team.
61:48And then during the week, during the season, if you have in season product, again, Brandon writes offensive line, defensive line mismatches
61:55and ranks every offensive line and defense line for that week, specific to the injuries that are out there.
62:02So learn a ton, really push the time as always here, Brandon, tell the people where they can find you and where they can find your work.
62:10Yeah. So, um, trench warfare dot substack.com. You could subscribe to my newsletter there.
62:15Like Evan mentioned, I just did a film room for a little over an hour with a Bengal center, Ted Karras.
62:22I, prior to him, I did one with Lane Johnson, Larry, Tom soul, Josh Simmons, got some other cool guests coming up.
62:29So yeah, if you want to kind of get inside the minds of those, you know, top kind of starters and mid-level
62:36starters, even too, which I think is super valuable.
62:39um, you could do that. And then, uh, bleacher report as well.
62:43We actually just real quick plug, the week of the hall of fame game, we have the NFL 1000 project coming out
62:51of bleacher report where myself and a team of four scouts ranked the top 1000 players in the NFL.
62:57And I did offensive line. So I wrote up 180 plus guys there.
63:01Uh, we talked about this at the retreat a little bit, but yeah, that's coming out hall of fame week.
63:08So be on the lookout for that. I think that's going to be a really cool project.
63:13180 offensive linemen. Yes. There are only 160 starting offensive linemen in the NFL.
63:18I did every start. Yeah. And then all the guys who played, you know, cause of injury and whatnot.
63:24So, and that doesn't include rookies. So, well, I, that during the hall of fame, we call a fan game week.
63:31I will be working on my DFS showdown lineups.
63:34However, I will take a break to read Brandon's 180, 160 offensive line write-ups there.
63:39Of course, you can find all Brandon's work on ETR as well.
63:43Be sure you are following him on Twitter. Also again, Evan has promised.
63:47He's going to tweet during the season at Evan Silva.
63:51And you can find me at Adam Levitan. Be sure you subscribe on YouTube here.
63:56It is indeed free. We have a big schedule of plans for shows over the next month or so as we hit peak drafting season.
64:04For Brandon, for Evan, for Bruce and Ryan, for Bruce and Luke, for everyone behind the scenes at ETR, I am Adam.
64:11Good luck, everybody. новostitu limelapse, Thank you. Bye bye.