0:00Go and welcome to the 5th of Establish The Run podcast.
0:03My name is Adam Levitan. I am one of the co-founders here at ETR.
0:07As always, joined by fellow co-founder Evan Silva. And today we have a very, very special guest.
0:12This is a young man who has watched thousands of hours of wide receiver hip swivels.
0:17He's dedicated his life to the wide receiver position all so he can tell us who is actually good and who isn't.
0:23It is one of the oldest friends of the show, Matt Harmon of Yahoo and Reception Perception.
0:28Appreciate the time as always, Matt. How's it going?
0:31Adam, Evan, good to see you guys. Yeah, every year I feel like you intro me, Adam, and you say something in
0:37that regard about how I've dedicated my life to this, which at least brings me about like 30 seconds of an existential crisis.
0:44But you know what? I'm happy to have dedicated my life to this.
0:47I think it's worked out well so far. Indeed, it has.
0:51I am glad that you dedicated your life to this, Evan.
0:54How's it going today? Pleased and privileged today to be with the premier wide receiver analyst in sports media.
0:59Excited for this one. People love this show. Indeed.
1:02On today's show, we are going to discuss 21 of the most interesting wide receivers for fantasy football this season.
1:08We'll hit on a few categories. Guys in new roles.
1:11Year two breakout candidates. We'll check in on aging veterans.
1:13And of course, we'll talk about the important rookies.
1:16Be sure to stay tuned to the end of the show as we will get Matt's two most overrated and two most underrated NFL wide receivers.
1:24Before we get into it here today, reminder, peak drafting season is nearly upon us.
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1:34Combines DraftKings Pro, aka Silva's Top 150, all our ETR ranks, Thorman's in-season rankings, tons more.
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1:43Machine in-season, Silva's matchups, Thorne OLDL mismatches. For details on the bundle or just DraftKip Pro, head to the subscribe tab on EstablishTheRun.com.
1:50That is the subscribe tab on EstablishTheRun.com. All right, Matt.
1:53We have a bunch of guys in new roles this season.
1:56I want to start there because I think it's really interesting.
1:59The first one to me is the guy with arguably the biggest role change this year, and that is Devonta Smith.
2:05We have not seen Devonta Smith really in the alpha role in a long time.
2:09Obviously, he did it back in college when he won the Heisman.
2:13On a per-route basis, we can look at this when AJ Brown has been off the field, Devonta Smith has been very,
2:19very, very good, showing alpha-like underlying metrics. That is a smallish sample, though.
2:23Matt, what say you about Devonta Smith's ability to become the alpha here for the Eagles?
2:28Yeah, I'm really excited about Devonta Smith this year.
2:30I think he's a guy who's probably overdue for a promotion from the secondary receiver to a number one receiver role.
2:36And, I mean, we have seen him, at least in his rookie season, be the number one guy on the team.
2:42And I think the interesting part for him this year is obviously the Eagles are transitioning to a new offensive environment.
2:48I think there's no question things will look different with Sean Mannion this year than some of what it's looked like with Jalen Hurts just throughout his tenure.
2:57Obviously, it was like the most exaggerated version of this last year, but the very static, like spread and shred world in
3:03which they've lived in with Jalen Hurts. But the good news for Devonta Smith is that I think he can live in
3:09both worlds, which is probably what they'll try to have afoot in each camp this year.
3:14From 2021 to 2023, Smith took 79.8% of his sample snaps outside in reception perception and 70% snaps on the ball.
3:20So we've seen him be a primary outside X receiver in the NFL before, even if he's been in the slot the last two years.
3:27But if you want to kick him inside and you want to have him run, you know, quick patterns and everything like
3:34that, or some of the more long developing like big dig routes or out cuts that you'll want to have in a
3:40Sean Mannion style, what I'm imagining to be a Green Bay type of offense, he can do either one of those things.
3:46So this is one of the best separators in the NFL.
3:49In 2024, AJ Brown was number one in success rate versus man coverage.
3:53That season, Devonta Smith was number two. Like this is a very, very quality receiver who is, like I said, I think
4:00overdue for a promotion to a number one receiver role.
4:02I don't really have any questions about Smith performing in isolation as that guy.
4:06Obviously, the questions for him are just the environment around him.
4:10Yeah. And despite that environment, Evan, Devonta Smith is going very high.
4:13You have him 28th overall, ADP, and I'm looking at season-long ADP now on Yahoo.
4:17Shout out to Matt. I'm looking at season-long ADP now, and 33 overall is Devonta Smith.
4:22So we're not sneaking this one past anyone, obviously.
4:25Evan, any thoughts on what Matt said about Devonta here?
4:28The biggest knock on Devonta Smith ever since he came out of college always, you know, nicknamed the Slim Reaper, 170 pounds.
4:34I am, I have a level of confidence that he's going to be able to excel in this number one receiver role.
4:40Do you think that, Matt, that being 170 pounds, he's probably a little heavier now than he was when he came out of Alabama.
4:47But do you think that that poses any kind of hindrance to Devonta Smith being a full-time number one receiver over a 17-game schedule?
4:54From a health perspective, maybe. You know, I think that that's obviously just the question is, can you absorb that amount of punishment?
5:01We're going to talk about that with another guy here in the new role section as well.
5:06But from like a being able to win on the field perspective, I haven't seen that so far through his NFL career.
5:12Last year, 77.6% success rate versus press, which is an 83rd percentile mark.
5:16He's never fallen below 77% in any pro season.
5:18It was one of the better marks in his prospect profile.
5:22He's always been someone that can win against press, you know, even when he's stuck to the boundary.
5:27So I don't really have any questions like, you know, in terms of skill set wise, it's just physically getting hold up to the punishment at that weight.
5:35But, you know, this is a guy who's generally been pretty healthy throughout the course of his NFL career.
5:40So, yeah, to me, it's just mostly about the past volume here for him and everything like that.
5:46But his ability to play more X receiver, we've already seen him do it and win against press coverage.
5:51Again, a lot of proof that he can be that guy.
5:54I mean, people want to knock Jalen Hurts and not being able to support NFL wide receivers.
5:59That's just not true historically. Yes, perhaps it was underperforming last year, but man, Devante as the number two is that huge
6:06seasons with Jalen Hurts and obviously AJ Brown has had huge seasons as well.
6:10Let's go to the Jets and Garrett Wilson. I don't even know if I want to call this new role for Garrett
6:16Wilson, but it feels like this is the first time he's been a healthy and be had like a reasonably talented offense around him.
6:23Not the most talented offense in the world, but a reasonable offensive line, reasonable weaponry.
6:27And if you think Geno Smith's season with the Raiders was an outlier, maybe like okay quarterback play or better than what he has had.
6:34He has had the worst quarterback play for most of his career has Garrett Wilson.
6:39So people don't want to click this, Carmen. We are above market based on Garrett Wilson's underlying stats, historicals, target competition.
6:45We're above market here. People don't really want to click Garrett Wilson.
6:48What do you think about him with Geno this year?
6:51I get it. I mean, Frank Reich is the offensive coordinator too.
6:55It's just, I don't have a lot of optimism about that.
6:58The frustrating part about last year with Garrett Wilson is that I actually think that Tanner Engstrand, the former offensive coordinator there
7:04got like the passing game right in New York from a design perspective, from a Garrett Wilson role perspective.
7:10I mean, in the first, you know, couple of seasons of his, and really the first two seasons, the two seasons under
7:16Nathaniel Hacken, the Aaron Rodgers like bizarro offense, Garrett Wilson mostly had to play, you know, X receiver for this team.
7:22Even once Devontae Adams like got there, they've used him more as a slot option, which Garrett Wilson can win in that role, but he's more maximized.
7:30I think when you use them off ball and kind of allow him to move around, which they did last year.
7:36Just the rest, the run game was terribly designed and Justin Fields didn't fit the pass game.
7:41It was obviously a mess last year, but Wilson was pretty productive on a per game basis last year.
7:46He still led the jets in receiving, despite the fact that he didn't catch a pass from like mid October on or something like that.
7:54He's just one of the most talented receivers and separators in the NFL.
7:57And I have to imagine this year with 80 Mitchell kind of cemented as that X only option.
8:03They're going to move Garrett Wilson around. He's going to play a lot more.
8:07Z is going to play a lot more slots.
8:09So the opportunity should be there for him. The question is just obviously, can Gino hang onto this job and do like,
8:16do they go to Cade club Nick at some point?
8:18I was just talking about this literally this morning with Nate Tice on football 301.
8:23I think the Cade club Nick pick is kind of a canary in the coal mine for Frank Reich probably has not evolved as an offensive mind.
8:31Cause remember like Frank Reich, when he's even with the Eagles and they were having a lot of success, it's a lot
8:37of, you know, 11 personnel RPO is 11 personnel RPO.
8:40So, and that's a lot of what Cade club Nick, just a ton of RPOs at Clemson.
8:45So I don't have a lot of optimism about the jets offense as a whole, but Wilson is enough of a talent.
8:51Like he's a fringe top 10 top 12 receiver talent in the league and should continue even with all these, you know,
8:57interesting pieces around him to dominate targets. Yeah. Yeah.
9:00I mean, we are at 35 overall and half PPR on Garrett Wilson, which I think is like reasonable all things considered
9:06how good he is, the target competition, et cetera.
9:09But Mark doesn't want him 42 overall is the ADP here on Garrett Wilson.
9:13Let's go to Jim Waddle is in a new role.
9:16Jalen Waddle was the second fiddle to Tyreek Hill for a while.
9:19We didn't get a huge sample of him after Tyreek went down or we did have a sample, but it was just such a mess there in Miami.
9:27But anyways, regardless, now he goes to Denver on a big deal to be the alpha for Bo Nix.
9:33Harmon, what do you think about the outlook for Jalen Waddle in this new role with the Broncos?
9:38Jalen Waddle is flat out the most mispriced player in fantasy this year.
9:42I think he is just set up to absolutely cook in Denver.
9:45And there's a lot of things that I think people don't understand about Jalen Waddle.
9:50One is just how good he is. You know, it still feels like there's kind of a contingent that thinks he's just
9:56not that good of a receiver or anything like that.
9:59I know he didn't explode with Tyreek Hill out last year, but part of that is number one, they just didn't run a lot of plays.
10:06I think they were one of the fewest teams in terms of plays run per game.
10:11Not a lot of pass attempts. That's going to change in Denver for sure.
10:15The other thing I think people don't realize about Jalen Waddle is because they did all the fun move around stuff with
10:22Tyreek Hill, you know, getting him in the slot, get him in the Z spot to like move around the formation.
10:28Jalen Waddle, despite this not really being like his prototypical size or skill set, he's had to be the extra receiver for this team from 2022 to 2024.
10:36He averaged a 77% outside alignment rate was on the ball for 81% of his sampled snaps.
10:41And, you know, that really only increased like over the course of those three seasons, his rate of snaps on the ball.
10:47And still even last year without Tyreek Hill, 79% snaps on the line of scrimmage, 84% outside.
10:52That number one is already you're playing kind of the hardest receiver role, especially with a quarterback who gets the ball out
10:58so fast into a, you know, those routes just don't have a chance to develop, especially when you're kind of a vertical receiver.
11:05So with Cortland Sutton as the X, and I think Pat Bryant probably as the, you know, kind of big slot receiver,
11:11we're going to see Jalen Waddle used more like 2016 Brandon Cooks in this offense where Cooks that year actually took his
11:18highest rate of snaps off the line of scrimmage and big breaking routes, not just down the field, but quick hitters as well.
11:24I mean, there were weeks last year as long stretches of the season last year where Troy Franklin is out targeting Cortland Sutton.
11:31That's not because Troy Franklin is a better receiver than Cortland Sutton.
11:34And that's because they, that offense wants to hit those layups and everything.
11:38And now Jalen Waddle is essentially going to be that guy.
11:41I just think Waddle, he, to me, I haven't ranked as like a wide receiver 12 this season, like a top four,
11:48like easy top 30 ish type of guy in fantasy this year.
11:51I know that Davis Webb, the new OC said this, but I said it first.
11:55Okay. Davis. I said that this reminded me a lot of when the, when the bills traded for Stefan Diggs and like
12:02Josh Allen was in year three Diggs, people knew he was good, but not how they didn't know how good he was.
12:08That's the type of effect. I think Waddle is going to have in Denver getting Stefan Diggs in Buffalo.
12:14That was the turning point really in Josh Allen's career.
12:17Um, so the Broncos do a ton of stuff around the line of scrimmage, but I mean, they want to test deep
12:23like Bo Nix last year was number five in the NFL in intended air yards.
12:27And if you look, I was looking at, uh, the reception perception route chart for Jalen Waddle before the show, this guy wins downfield.
12:34Um, the Broncos give up a first and a third to get them.
12:38They have the best offensive line in the league, according to Brandon Thorne's ranking.
12:42So they're going to have protection. I think Jalen Waddle is a guy to get excited about.
12:47I love hearing you talk him up. I mean, from a strategy perspective here, this is why I've been talking about, and
12:53you know, I always talk about this in season long, the running back heavy starts, but Jalen Waddle available 49.3 ADP in season long right now.
13:01And like we just talked about Garrett Wilson at 43 overall, you can get really strong wide receiver rooms here through rounds
13:07four, five, six, three, four, five, six, really. Um, and yeah, just from a, from a strategy perspective, I think that's at a minimum interesting.
13:14And I mean, the underlying data sports, what, what Harmon is saying about Jalen Waddle.
13:19He like, even last year, it was a such a mess in Miami still 2.19 yards per route run.
13:24Remember he had those two seasons, 2.52, 2.46. Like he's been really, really good from a data perspective also has Jalen Waddle.
13:30Let's go to Lad McConkie. I'm calling this a new role Harmon, because I made the mistake last year of thinking Lad
13:37McConkie's role would not be overly affected by Keenan Allen.
13:40Turned out that it was extremely affected by Keenan Allen.
13:43Now we get Keenan gone, Mike McDaniel in Harmon.
13:45What do you think about Lad in hopefully the role that I thought he would have last year?
13:50I do think it will kind of from a route alignment perspective, route diet perspective, look pretty similar to what it looked like for Lad McConkie last year.
13:59Cause like Keenan came in there and just ate all the layup routes, you know, all the easy stuff.
14:04And look, I think one of the things I've learned over the years, like where I've made mistakes is like speaking to,
14:10um, like an absolute when it comes to receiver decline, because there are guys that, you know, it goes, they go right
14:17off the cliff and we've seen that with players, but there are other players that like age pretty gracefully.
14:22And, you know, I think Keenan Allen's been in some level of decline for like five years, but it's never gone right off the cliff.
14:29He actually still was a totally useful player for the chargers last year.
14:33So I don't think it's like, obviously you don't want to be a second year player and get, you know, kind of
14:40iced by Keenan Allen at that point in your career, but it's not as embarrassing, I think, as it's kind of painted
14:46for Lad McConkie, but he just, it really doesn't matter because in this offense with Mike McDaniel, where they're going to run
14:52a lot more heavy personnel, they're going to run routes in the intermediate area of the field where Lad McConkie is truly at his best.
14:59I mean, this is not some pop gun slot receiver.
15:02He's much more of like a downfield breaking route type of player.
15:06Even last year, they still wanted to get him on those bigger out cuts and everything off play action.
15:11The problem is they just didn't have the offensive line to, you know, make that happen.
15:16So everything to me from an environment perspective looks really good for Lad McConkie, you know, watching him, you know, with, for
15:22reception perception last year, his charting data didn't really change at all.
15:26So the only thing you can maybe criticize him for is that he wasn't as good in 50, 50 ball situations.
15:32His contested catch rate came down from year one to year two, but from a separation perspective, from getting open, like he
15:38still was the same, same guy from year one to year two, almost no decline across the board and success rate versus man or zone coverage.
15:46The only question with Lad McConkie, just we mentioned this with Devante Smith is can his body handle like 140 plus targets?
15:52Cause even through the first two seasons of his career, while he's been really good on those intermediate routes and down the
15:58football field and everything like that, he gets himself rocked and like has to scrape himself off the football field.
16:04But truly that is the only thing I think that would, you know, kind of prohibit him from having like a true wide receiver one fantasy season.
16:12Cause otherwise like every variable you want is there for Lad McConkie.
16:15Also was injured a lot in college was Lad McConkie, which I think is notable there to that point.
16:21The thing that sticks in my head, Silva, is what Harmon said.
16:24If you're that good and I'm glad to hear Harmon say this about the tape and underlying and separation and all that,
16:31because in my head is if you can really get outplayed by Keaton Allen and at times Quentin Johnston, who we'll get
16:37to, how good can you actually be? You know what I mean?
16:41And like, I get that maybe that's not like the sharpest take, but it's at least in my head.
16:46I kind of want to brush that off because I do want to be high on Lad.
16:51Silva, I believe you're above market on Lad if I'm not mistaken here, but.
16:55I've been getting them a lot in best ball drafts.
16:58A lot of way above market on Lad. Yeah.
17:0129 overall for Silva. Yeah. I mean, to me, it's just a cinch that getting the tackles back, Mike McDaniel, Lad McConkie
17:07is going to be the number one receiver. Or lay up stuff is, you know, Lad McConkie is going to get that, that Keaton Allen left behind.
17:15The interesting guy to me is like Quentin Johnston, Trey Harris, you know, then who's going to win that number two receiver
17:21job on a team that's going to use a bunch of multiple tight end sets?
17:25Because I think that that player can have a lot of value.
17:29And so far, Daniel Popper does a great job covering the Chargers.
17:32Actually, he's now moving to a national role, I believe, but has covered the Chargers as well as any beat reporter in
17:39the nation for the last several years. He's made it sound like Quentin Johnson has the number two receiver job blocked up.
17:45Do you have any, like any, any thoughts on how Trey Harris looked to you as a rookie?
17:50Could he maybe challenge Quentin Johnston? I think first, just on Quentin Johnson, I said this to my co-host on reception perception, the show James Coe.
17:58I was like, dude, you mostly him, but kind of the football world at large, like still kind of holding Quentin Johnson's rookie season against him.
18:05I think a little bit too hard. Like there's no question.
18:08That was one of the worst rookie seasons of all time in reception perception.
18:12For sure. It's like first percentile success rate versus man press coverage, the whole deal.
18:17But we can also acknowledge he was really set up to fail in the particular vertical X receiver role that he had,
18:23especially under the first coaching staff that he played for.
18:26They did kind of change up his route tree at times last year, but now he's kind of like a 22nd percentile
18:32success rate versus man player, 24th percentile. So like he's not the worst receiver in the NFL.
18:37He's just kind of like a solid starter essentially with like he's, I would sort of compare him to Corey Davis with the Tennessee Titans.
18:45Like we launched a player comparison tool on the site this year where you can look back through the whole history of RP data.
18:51And that's one that pops up for him. And I think that also makes sense from like a fantasy perspective where if
18:58he's going to be one of the two receivers on the field and heavy personnel that year where Corey Davis, his final
19:04year in Tennessee, him and AJ Brown were both like top five in yards per route run that year because they were
19:11running so few 11 personnel and just taking deep shots off play action.
19:14I think Quentin Johnson could have a season like that.
19:17Trey Harris like was interesting last year because I viewed him as kind of a mostly vertical X receiver prospect coming out
19:24of Ole Miss, but he was used more all over the formation in the slot as like a blocker.
19:29So I do think he will pose an interesting challenge and maybe can mix in here.
19:34But I think QJ kind of has that second receiver spot, not totally locked down, but pretty well locked down at this point.
19:40Yeah. Well, this is one of me and Evan's biggest debates.
19:44I mean, Quentin Johnson is going in the 60s now in best ball, which I think is absolutely egregious, Harmon.
19:49I'm not going to be as nice as you.
19:52I think Quentin Johnson in 60s is absolutely egregious.
19:54Like, yes. Well, I don't have him in the 60s either.
19:58He's better than his rookie year, but he still sucks.
20:01You know what I mean? It doesn't mean that just because you're better than literally the worst rookie season of all time doesn't mean that you're now good.
20:09And like, yeah, I'm excited to see Trey Harris here in year two.
20:12And yeah, I think the gap between Trey Harris who goes around 180 and Quentin Johnson who goes in the 60s is massive.
20:19Now, if you want to talk to me about season long, that's a different story.
20:23The Yahoo ADP is around 110 on Quentin Johnson.
20:26That's obviously much, much, much more palatable to be there at 110.
20:29I'd consider taking him there at 110 for sure.
20:32All right. Let's go to, oh, here's a controversial one, Harmon.
20:35Let's go to Parker Washington. There are a lot of Parker Washington haters out there who say, yeah, he had no pedigree.
20:42You know, he wasn't a big college performer. He has this really small sample of production last year.
20:47And now people are going nuts about Parker Washington over highly touted prospects such as Brian Thomas, Travis Hunter, et cetera.
20:53So very interested in this one, Harmon. Do you think Parker Washington is actually good enough to say lead the Jaguars in yards and receptions this year?
21:01Yeah, I'll just say to like pull back on the Jags receiver room as a whole.
21:05I do kind of think from a base case outcome, this probably looks like the Packers receiver rooms of the last few
21:12years where four guys get involved because, you know, I know the internet wants like to make Travis Hunter just to he's not just going to play cornerback.
21:20And I actually kind of like the fact that they've talked about how he's going to play more X receiver this year
21:26and run a more vertical route tree in a weird way.
21:29His role as a rookie was one, two, like much throwing him, you know, the whole playbook and the whole deal, but
21:36also too limited in that it was just kind of cookie cutter gadget targets to start where he really started to get
21:42cooking right before the injury when they unfurled his routes as like more of a deep guy and let him run it
21:48because his best stuff comes against press man coverage.
21:51He still is kind of not totally on the details in terms of zone coverage and everything.
21:56And that bears out in his charting, but he's going to play receiver, you know, a little bit at least here.
22:02I would say maybe 20% of the routes, maybe 30%, which is enough to eat into the other three guys who are
22:08also really good in their own right. In addition to the fact that they're going to play two tight ends of the
22:15whole deal, but for Parker Washington in particular, you know, he is an interesting player because I compared him coming to the NFL to bud light.
22:22Golden Tate was my player comparison for him. And golden Tate was a guy who was pretty solid separator, pretty solid route
22:28runner, better from the slot, but more of a downfield slot receiver who could win in tight coverage and win with the
22:35ball in his hands as a tackle breaker. And while Parker Washington, I would say it was maybe like an average separator against man coverage.
22:42Once they got him into the slot, his success rate versus zone coverage really kicked up.
22:47And that's something I think people don't realize for Parker Washington either.
22:50It's a big piece of context about his season.
22:53He was only in the slot like it towards the end of the year.
22:57He was actually like a boundary outside reserve receiver to start the season, you know, playing behind Deami Brown, which was a terrible signing.
23:04But in his final four games sampled his rate of snaps off the ball, 62%, his slot rate increased by 10 percentage point.
23:10And in those games, he was really cooking against zone coverage in particular, which is what you want as a slot receiver.
23:17And he was flat out one of the better contested catch receivers and after catch receivers in the RP database from last season.
23:23No question about it. So I think he's a good player.
23:27I think his role looks like it should be pretty solid in this offense.
23:31So I kind of want to take shots on both him and Brian Thomas Jr.
23:35because I'm generally kind of willing to give Brian Thomas Jr.
23:38a pass for some of the stuff last season.
23:41There are areas where he needs to improve, but he clearly wasn't healthy last year.
23:45So I like taking my shots on both those guys because I think they're probably the favorites to if you're going to
23:51hit a home run, it's going to be one of those two guys.
23:55But ultimately, I do kind of think the base case is that all four of these guys play and you're kind of
24:02irritated in fantasy on a pretty consistent basis. 100%.
24:04I do think it's notable that Travis Hunter has been practicing on the outside a lot at training camp so far.
24:10In other words, when Travis Hunter comes on the field, if he's not taking away the slot snaps from Parker Washington, that
24:17makes me feel a little bit better about Parker Washington's role there.
24:20Evan, anything to add on Jags wide receivers? I have not personally taken a big stand on any of the Jaguars' pass
24:26catchers because, and Harmon hit on it a little bit, they have so many different guys that they can use, including their tight ends.
24:33I mean, right before training camp, they gave Brenton Strange a big extension.
24:37They drafted Nate Borkercher in the second round and they got four receivers that they can play.
24:42And so I think it's tough to really take a stand, like a hard line stance on any of these guys.
24:48And I think that on a week to week basis and season long, it's going to be rough.
24:53You're going to be playing a lot of whack-a-mole, you know, trying to figure out who's going to score on a week to week basis.
25:00It's going to be pretty difficult to predict. So that's where I'm at.
25:04That's why I haven't taken a big stand on any individual Jaguars' pass catcher.
25:08We do have, in the ETR ranks, we do have Parker Washington as our highest ranked Jaguars receiver.
25:13It is very, we have Brian Thomas literally like right behind him, very close between those two.
25:18They're both kind of cheap. That's exactly how I have it too.
25:22Yeah, I have it the other way where I have these guys close and I just have, right now I have Brian Thomas Jr.
25:29ahead, but the Travis Hunter taking snaps at X receiver has made me like maybe rethink that a little bit just because
25:35for a minute, I thought, again, if somebody's going to be on the field all the time to use the Packers analogy,
25:42it's going to be whoever is Romeo Dobbs in this scenario, because he's the outside on ball receiver, which theoretically would be Brian Thomas Jr.
25:49But if that's not going to be the case, like I actually do kind of think, Hey, if you're trying to give
25:55Travis Hunter a limited menu, when you get into like, say they run some 13 personnel this year, which I don't think
26:01anybody will live in as much as maybe, you know, was kind of a media talking point for a while, but let's say they do.
26:09That's a very limited route tree. You don't have to learn a ton of stuff.
26:13And if you're just Travis Hunter, go cook down the football field.
26:16It would make sense to leave him as the only receiver in those situations.
26:21So yeah, I have it pretty close to, and I'm rethinking, do I want to have BTJ or Parker Washington ranked ahead?
26:27I'm not a hundred percent convicted there. All right, let's go to Indy here for another guy in a new role.
26:33So it's Alec Pierce. I want to ignore the injury stuff on Alec Pierce for a second here and just focus on, they paid him 84 million guaranteed.
26:41In theory, when I see that kind of bag, I think you are expected to now win at all three levels or at least two levels historically.
26:49And Matt can correct me if I'm wrong. It feels more to me like Alec Pierce has won mostly deep down the field with Michael Pittman gone.
26:57In theory, they need him to win and they're paying this much money in theory.
27:01They need him to win closer to the line of scrimmage.
27:04Is Alec Pierce capable of doing that here, Harmon?
27:07And what do you think about him in, I guess, theoretically, an alpha role this year?
27:11Yeah, I guess alpha kind of depending on your perspective of what that means.
27:15I think Pierce, no doubt, has improved a lot from where he was early in his career when he was more of
27:22a pure sacrificial X receiver, where he's just running the downfield stuff and clearing out space for his teammates.
27:27Last year, he really improved on intermediate in breaking routes.
27:30So he ran a route, ran a dig route on 24% of his chartered routes, 82% success rate, really solid number there
27:37was pretty good on outbreakers, but generally still better breaking over the middle of the field, which is what the Colts kind
27:43of want to do with that outside man coverage beating X receiver.
27:46So I still think his role will be even when he's healthy or whatever, we'll still be like a limited menu, but
27:53it's definitely not just shot play stuff. He can run slants, he can run some in breakers, but I still think it
27:59will always be a little bit of a high wire act because my question more with him is not so much.
28:05Can he run more routes than just go routes or whatever?
28:08He definitely can. I think he proved that to us last year and he was a prospect that I kind of liked
28:15too on some of those in breakers as well.
28:17It's, can he play anything other than X receiver?
28:20Like, is he twitchy enough to move off ball or kick into the slot?
28:24And I think that the answer to that is probably no.
28:27So I think he will be like a limited menu player.
28:30And I honestly do kind of worry about him being like a 30 plus million dollar receiver.
28:35It's good that he's with the Colts instead of going to some other team or whatever.
28:40But yeah, I think Pierce is good at what he does really, really good at what he does, but I don't know
28:46that the, the, like the depth of talent is there in this one thing, maybe not the breadth of talent is there for him.
28:53We have Josh Downs actually projected for more targets than Alec Pierce in the ETR stuff.
28:58We do have Pierce ranked higher, just for longer ADOT, more touchdown equity, et cetera.
29:02But yeah, I mean, it's certainly getting closer between those guys.
29:05We'll talk more about Downs here later, but yeah, super interesting spot there for the Colts.
29:10For an update on Alec Pierce, Shane Steichen spoke today and like Alec Pierce still has no timetable for return.
29:16Yeah. So, I mean, I'm not feeling great about his health right now.
29:19What do you think about Josh Downs' ability to handle, you know, the majority of the receiving workload for Indianapolis, Matt?
29:25Well, it's, I love Josh Downs. You know, I've been a longtime fan of his.
29:30I think he compares more to Tyler Lockett than, you know, your typical slot only bunny hop type receiver.
29:35He's somebody that has been in a really, really good press man beater, even in the NFL.
29:40And I get most of that's come from the slot.
29:43So, you know, that is a piece of context there.
29:46But at this point, like Shane Steichen, who I don't think is an idiot would have to be an idiot to not
29:52have like Josh Downs be on the field all the time relative to some of those other players.
29:58But yeah, I, I'm a big Downs fan. I think he can handle it.
30:02It's from a skillset perspective. It's just an injury based thing.
30:05And I'm at this point after the JSN season, which I'm sure we talked about this last year, my big theory for
30:11why JSN could, no question kick outside was we've seen him be able to beat man coverage.
30:16Like that's what you need to do if you're going to be that guy.
30:20And that was the proof was in the pudding there for him.
30:24And obviously he had this great season. I don't know that I'm not saying Josh Downs is going to have JSN season,
30:30but for me personally, these teams feel differently. But for me personally, I don't want to put these artificial limits on players
30:36that they have to play in the slot just because of, of size or history or whatever, because I've seen Josh Downs
30:43be able to project to that type of role.
30:45Okay. Well, that is a good transition to the next spot.
30:48We're going to talk about, is Packers wide receiver room, new roles here as they get rid of Romeo Dobbs and Dontavian Wicks.
30:55I want to ask about Matthew Golden, but the point that the reason I think it's transition is because Josh Downs and
31:01Jaden Reed have historically kind of had this similar thing where we think they're awesome players or we know they're awesome players,
31:08but their teams view them as slot only. We do know that Matthew Golden is going to play X for this Packers team.
31:14The Dobbs role that has historically been, like Matt already said, a voluminous role in terms of routes at a minimum.
31:20So Matt, what do you think about Matthew Golden in the Dobbs role?
31:24Yeah, I just like come away from Matthew Golden's season as a rookie and not feeling strong one way or another.
31:30You know, we talked about like Quentin Johnson's rookie season.
31:33It's certainly from a reception perception perspective was not that bad, but it also wasn't to a level, you know, he's like
31:4033rd percentile success rate versus man coverage, 23rd percentile against zone.
31:43So nothing so much where I was like, I can't believe they didn't get this guy to football more, you know, or anything like that.
31:50I thought he was, and I think if you're being fair to Matthew Golden, they kind of, they tried to kick him
31:56into Jaden Reed's like slot based role, which isn't a really good fit for him because he's mostly a vertical route runner
32:03who isn't always right and tight on the details of what he needs to break at this depth or whatever.
32:08So I actually do kind of think he makes sense relative to this receiver room to be the X receiver because I
32:15don't want to see Christian Watson play X. Watson is best when you get him off ball and on the move.
32:21And I was kind of worried he would get typecasted as the X because he's the biggest guy.
32:26So honestly, like, I mean, I've joked about this now.
32:29I think my term sacrificial X has jumped the shark in certain perspectives.
32:33Like I see people be like, Oh, it's X.
32:35He's playing X. That's not good. No, you actually, you need to have a really good X receiver.
32:40It matters a lot. And it's not a bad thing.
32:43There are different types of X receivers, right? Correct.
32:46Not every X is sacrificial and not every sacrificial player is an X.
32:50Mike Evans is not going to be a sacrificial X.
32:53Correct. Mike Evans is going to be the most badass player in your passing game.
32:57So yeah, it's not always a bad thing. And, uh, but Romeo Dobbs was the player who actually was the first one
33:03to make me come up with the term sacrificial X because he needed to be the outside on ball guy and run vertical routes.
33:10So you and I kind of think that Matthew golden could be a little bit sacrificial, but still really good and explosive
33:17on limited opportunities as the X receiver. But I do think Reed is somebody I'm going to continue to hold out.
33:23Hope can play more. And I kind of think it doesn't really matter about the two receiver stuff as much this year.
33:29Cause I think the defense is going to be worse.
33:32I think the run game is going to be worse.
33:35And once again, I don't think that their second tight end with Luke Musgrave, especially dealing with a neck injury right now
33:41is a better player than Jaden Reed. So to me, Reed is someone who in his first two seasons was right around 73% success rate versus man.
33:49I would like to see him play more, but he is certainly someone that is a leading candidate for, you know, the
33:55Matt Harmon fell for it again award in terms of a small man coverage, beating slot receiver.
34:00That just is a little more limited than I'd like.
34:03We have big changes coming for the Packers. You know, Matt alluded to some of them, but they're all good for the receivers.
34:10I mean, way more condensed, way more concentrated in terms of routes.
34:13They cannot play all these guys. Everybody else is trying to go to more heavy, more double tight end.
34:19They don't have the tight end room really to do that.
34:22We already alluded to the Luke Musgrave injury here.
34:24And then defense could be bad. Run game could be bad, you know?
34:28And so there's just like a lot of reasons to be excited about Packers stuff.
34:33The last reason to be excited about it. Matthew Golden is like free in season long.
34:37I'm looking at an ADP here of 150 on Matthew Golden, even in best ball.
34:42Sometimes Matthew Golden sneaks through to like 115, 120 Jaden Reed still goes in the nineties or so.
34:47And yeah, you know, I make all three plays.
34:49I make the Watson play and read play and, and the golden play, uh, here right now.
34:54Last guys to talk about for new roles is going to be the Cardinals wide receivers.
34:59Um, Marvin Harrison, I've been calling him Mazda instead of Maserati Marv, you know, it's really tough because Michael Wilson played so
35:05well when Mazda was out last year. First game Mazda gets back immediately.
35:09Mazda mogged him in targets and that like keeps sticking in my craw when I want to get higher Michael Wilson.
35:15Um, so Harmon, there's a lot of debate out there about Marvin Harrison.
35:19Like I had stone zero Marvin Harrison last year.
35:21Shout out to me. It didn't actually lead to any significant dollars, but anyways, uh, Adam thinks that Marvin Harrison was never
35:28actually good and that it was like a conspiracy that because, because his, because his father is Marvin Harrison senior, Marvin Harrison jr.
35:34was actually never good. It was all a lie.
35:37Evan, Evan has used the phrase Nepo baby a lot on here.
35:40And this is the poster child of Nepo baby in Marvin.
35:44No, when he was going in round three, it was easy fade last year.
35:48Now he's going in like around eight or around nine.
35:51It's a different story for sure. So Harmon, what do you think is Marvin Harrison actually Mazda or is he Maserati?
35:57Okay. So we've been making good time on this episode and I could talk for like 30 minutes about these Cardinals receivers.
36:03Uh, so I probably shouldn't have even recommended them to be on the show.
36:07Cause I find that this is like my painful curiosity of the year, mostly because, well, one just on, on Marvin Harrison,
36:13I think you can hold two thoughts in your head, which is one.
36:17Marvin Harrison has objectively been like disappointing relative to the expectations with which he came into the league as the fourth overall
36:24pick, even before you do all the generational prospect or his dad's name or whatever, I guess objectively true.
36:29But I also think he has not been nearly as bad as like the internet just loves to slam on this guy,
36:35you know, viral videos of him dropping training camp.
36:38I think he's been a perfectly solid to good NFL receiver.
36:41That just was not a fit for his former quarterback.
36:44I mean, Marvin Harrison jr's best stuff is like running dig routes over the middle intermediate middle of the field, which Kyler
36:50Murray just does not access that area. And at the same time, like drew petsing offensive coordinator, I think also gets a
36:57little bit too much crap at times, like his offense is kind of a perfectly fine old school NFL offense.
37:03But the thing that drove me crazy about that team, and this brings me to Michael Wilson is that Michael Wilson, I
37:09literally wrote this at the end of his rookie season charting profile.
37:12I said, because Michael Wilson showed as a rookie, he could, I'm paraphrasing myself here, which is always good stuff.
37:18Like because Michael Wilson showed at the end of his rookie season, he could beat press man coverage and win as an X receiver.
37:25They don't have to just run Marvin Harrison jr out as the X like, and they can mix it up.
37:31And then that's exactly what they did until Marvin Harrison got hurt.
37:34And then they throw and Michael Wilson himself has said this, which I, you know, I found vindicating for myself, Adam, you
37:41know, that Michael Wilson's like, well, yeah, then I moved into the X and that's where the targets go in this offense.
37:47They go to the X receiver and they go to the tight end and they don't really go to the Z receiver where Michael Wilson was playing.
37:55All that stuff doesn't really matter. I think now, because I do really like Michael for as an offensive play designer.
38:01I thought his offenses in New York were pretty well designed, moved the receivers around.
38:05Well, I just think the system here is going to fit both of these guys.
38:10Like I think this isn't always the best analysis, but I'm going to do it anyways.
38:14If you just map like what Michael Wilson does well onto like, you know, Puka Nakua is the Z receiver.
38:20And then you map like Devante Adams last year, wasn't running a lot of vertical routes at all.
38:25And Michael Marvin Harrison Jr. in that route tree makes a lot of sense in this offense.
38:30I realized we also don't have Matthew Stafford coming over here obviously, but nevertheless, like I think these two receivers are both
38:36really good players and, you know, we get situations wrong all the time.
38:40I know this situation doesn't look good on paper, but if we're wrong about how bad this offense is going to be,
38:47like, I think both of these guys are misunderstood as talents.
38:50Like Michael Wilson's a legit good player. I think Marvin Harrison Jr.
38:53Again, based on his charting metrics, like this guy gets open.
38:56He's just not this overwhelming athlete or Jamar Chase or something like that.
39:00He's a real, he's more of like a supersized Devante Smith is kind of like what I would say for him or even like a Chris Olave type.
39:08Yeah. Harmon has actually been one of the optimists about the Cardinals offense this year a little bit.
39:13So is Greg Rosenthal, the old boss. Oh, I wonder if Greg Rosenthal has poisoned his Twitter algorithm like I have, I'm
39:20just like getting fed Cardinals stuff all day. Cause I can't stop talking about, I mean, one thing about their schedule, which
39:26is extremely hard that in theory can help the pass catching from a accumulation perspective.
39:30I do not think that LaFerr is going to allow Jigoy Brissett to drop back 40, 45, 50 times a game like the previous staff did.
39:38And so when you start regressing that stuff, it's harder for a projection basis.
39:42We do have Marvin Harrison pretty clear of Michael Wilson, mainly in part because of what I said before about when they
39:48were on the field together, Marvin Harrison was earning targets at a much higher rate than Michael Wilson.
39:54But Harmon's point on where they were aligned is certainly well taken.
39:57The market has these guys pretty close season long ADP, Marvin Harrison, 78, Michael Wilson, 87.
40:02So pretty tight there on the, uh, I have it, I have it closer like that too.
40:07And this is just one of those situations where I think like targets are earned as a, is a generally directionally accurate
40:13phrase, but I do think like this is where it kind of falls apart.
40:17Cause I don't think Michael Wilson did anything different to earn targets when Marvin Harrison jr was out and not earned targets
40:23when he wasn't there or when he was there, excuse me.
40:27And I just think it's more just how the offense flows.
40:30And again, both these guys are good players to me.
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41:46Let's move to the next section here. It's going to be year two wide receivers, man.
41:50There is some hateful stuff going on out there between the Luther Burden truthers and the Luther Burden haters.
41:56I mean, these people are really going at it.
41:58Luther Burden did not get to play until the end of last year when he played at the end of last year from an underlying metric perspective.
42:06It was one of the more impressive rookie wide receiver seasons that you can remember.
42:11The haters going to say it's a tiny sample, yada, yada, yada Harmon.
42:14What say you about how good Luther Burden actually is?
42:17Yeah, I think Luther Burden is really good, man.
42:20Like, and it's totally predictable that he did not get a full-time role last year.
42:24Number one, because he got hurt in the, you know, training camp or like before training camp process for rookie receiver in Ben Johnson's offense.
42:31Like that was very predictable that he was going to need a slow ramp up because Luther Burden was also a guy
42:38that kind of had to be not completely torn down and built back up.
42:42But he was somebody that needed to be pushed.
42:44He needed to be coached hard. And it was kind of predictable that he didn't play a lot at the beginning of
42:51the year, but you know, 71% success rate versus man, 80.4% success rate versus zone.
42:55Like those are the benchmarks we want to see a good wide receiver clear, especially in a part-time role.
43:01Like this guy was drafted to replace DJ Moore in the offense because DJ Moore did not fit this offense, even though he's still a pretty quality player.
43:09And I know we'll talk about him a little bit later, but Luther Burden does fit the offense, especially now that he's
43:15been in the system for a while, both in terms of getting the yards after catch.
43:20Like, and I, I am a Dunze optimist and I refuse to participate in the culture war of you've got to hate one to love the other.
43:27I don't ascribe to that because I do really like Luther Burden, but he's objectively better with the ball in his hands.
43:34No question about it than Roma Dunze is. And even so, like the way they used DJ Moore last year, they would
43:40get him screens and they would get him these like big outbreaking routes.
43:44And it wasn't always successful with Caleb Williams, Luther Burden, 84.6% success rate on digs, 73% success rate on out routes, pretty solid on post routes.
43:51That's a lot of what they wanted DJ Moore to do.
43:55And he just wasn't a really good fit with that.
43:57So I think Luther Burden is kind of aggressively priced based on his final stats last year, but I don't really care about that.
44:04I care about an ascending player in what I think is going to be one of the three best offenses this year.
44:11And yeah, to me, just, I feel really good about where Luther Burden is right now.
44:15Yeah, dude, I was not aware that Luther Burden had haters.
44:19Oh, um, yeah, but if they really exist, I mean, that's a big, big yikes.
44:23Like Luther Burden is a baller. This is an incredible situation that he's found himself in Ben Johnson talking about him.
44:29Like, you know, he could become one of the best receivers in the league.
44:33There were like legit analysts who thought he was the best receiver in the 2025 draft, which I think was largely born out on the field.
44:41The Bears defense is going to be a big, big problem this year.
44:44I mean, they're going to have to score points to be competitive.
44:48There's no way that they can duplicate that crazy turnover differential that they had last year.
44:52Brandon Thorne had him what the 31st ranked pass rush.
44:55They lose Kobe Bryant in the first week of training camp.
44:58They're going to have a rookie Dylan Thienemann at safety and some scrub opposite him.
45:03Like this defense is going to give up a lot of points, a lot of big plays.
45:08Um, and the, the bears offense is going to have to respond.
45:11I think they will respond and Luther Burden will be one of the leading characters in that.
45:16Luther Burden is going to smash, man. I mean, you know, like the DJ Moore thing, the guy in the room, I
45:22mean, the guys that Ben Johnson identified as guys that he wanted were Colson Loveland and Luther Burden.
45:28He inherited DJ Moore and Roma Dunze. DJ Moore is gone.
45:31And Roma Dunze's dad is like fighting with Caleb Williams.
45:34You know what I mean? It's like, this is, this is Colson Loveland and Luther Burden.
45:38Okay. Uh, I'm excited about it. I know we'll talk more about Rome here.
45:42Yeah. I'm going to disagree with that later on, but we'll, we'll come back to it.
45:47We'll come back to that. All right. Other year two guy that I think is a really interesting profile, Emeka Egbuka.
45:53Um, I took a bunch of Emeka Egbuka last year and he came out of the gates.
45:58I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, this is going to be absolutely incredible.
46:02Then he gets banged up. Baker gets banged up and it's kind of a struggle down the stretch for Egbuka.
46:08Now he gets to run out with Mike Evans gone though here.
46:12And we could have done this in new roles, but he has a year two wide receiver.
46:16How capable Harmon do you think Egbuka is of filling those Mike Evans S kind of shoots?
46:21Well, the good news is that Emeka Egbuka is no longer going to actually play in Mike Evans's spot.
46:27Cause that's essentially what he had to do last year where Egbuka was coming into the NFL and I had him, you
46:33know, just in terms of my rankings for the prospects coming into the draft that year I had Travis Hunter is kind of his own thing.
46:41Like if he theoretically played wide receiver, like I think he could have been the best in the class, but he's not
46:47going to ever play full-time wide receiver. He's going to play both ways.
46:51Then it was Tero McMillan and then Emeka Egbuka and then Luther Burton, you know, Matthew Golden, kind of the next guy up there.
46:58So I really liked the book as a prospect, but he was a big slot kind of Z receiver player.
47:04And then last year, because Mike Evans missed so much time, a book ends up taking 68.6% of his sampled snaps outside
47:10and was on the line of scrimmage for 64%.
47:12And those numbers went up when Evans was not on the field.
47:16So, I mean, for a book, like he was mostly an outside X receiver, which just doesn't make any sense for his kind of profile.
47:23And that in combination with Baker's injury, a book zone injury, I think was what, what kind of derailed his rookie season
47:30when it was off to a really promising start.
47:32So yeah, I think a book is a really well set up to be kind of that Z receiver in this offense
47:39is Zach Robinson talked about and you know, Robinson, you can definitely make some qualms about his offenses at times in Atlanta,
47:45but I think he's objectively really good for receiver usage.
47:48I mean, the 2024 Falcons, all of their main pass catchers were in the slot on over 39% of their passing plays.
47:54And I think a book being that movement Z receiver.
47:57Yeah. I think he, I think he could, he could absolutely like totally smash if Baker's good this year, because he's somebody
48:03who, you know, where I have questions about like glad McConkie, these guys like having 140, like a book can handle a
48:10lot of targets and fits this offense extremely, extremely well.
48:13This is another one, Evan, that goes in the forties and we've, a lot of the receivers we've talked about that we
48:19like keep going in the forties ADP here on Ibuka is 42 overall right now.
48:23So yeah. There's just a lot of context that we have to consider for the way, you know, the progression of Emeka
48:30Ibuka's rookie year, because he dealt with a hamstring injury.
48:33Baker was talking about recently all the injuries that he played through.
48:36I mean, his entire body was banged up. Remember the offensive line fell apart in Tampa Bay last year.
48:41And like, they're getting all those guys back. Thorne has the bucks as the number three offensive line in the league, I believe.
48:48Yes. So the context around Emeka Ibuka is a lot more positive entering this season than the way that it progressed over
48:54the course of the, of his rookie year. How comparable, because, you know, obviously they both played at Ohio state first round
49:01picks sort of later first round picks. They had similar like scouting reports coming out of college, Emeka Ibuka and Jackson Smith and Jigba.
49:08Do you think that Emeka Ibuka can be like 95% of Jackson Smith and Jigba?
49:12I mean, that's a big ask after what JSN did last year.
49:16I mean, he was, he's like the best, you know, one of the best offensive players in the league, but I mean,
49:22how, how similar do you think that they are?
49:25Yeah. I think that JSN has just shown more against like press coverage then and release moves off the line of scrimmage
49:31is why he was actually able to handle a primary outside on ball receiver role last year for the Seahawks.
49:37Whereas I think Ibuka, you need to get in motion off the line of scrimmage, which again is how I think he'll be used this year.
49:44But certainly like from a prospect profile perspective, I kind of had these guys with, with similar rankings in my, in my stacked rankings on the site.
49:52I mean, Jalen McMillan, who I think is going to be the X to start, but he's not a natural X either.
49:58And that's where you get this Ted Hearst talk coming from where maybe Ted Hearst could play the X to keep Ibuka and Z.
50:05But yeah, I'm, you know, yeah, I, it's super, it's super interesting for sure.
50:09I hope McMillan can actually play the X, I guess, for Ibuka's sake there.
50:13All right. Let's go to Ted Aroya McMillan. I feel like this is a hard evaluation, Harmon, because Bryce Young has just been so bad.
50:21And I know he's had moments. I know in the playoff game, he went off, but gosh, if you look at Bryce
50:27Young's career as a whole, it has not been good for wide receivers.
50:31And I felt like last year, a lot of times Panthers coaches were trying to hide Bryce.
50:36Let's see how many times we can run it.
50:38Let's see how slow we can play. And obviously that is not good for wide receiver production, but in terms of Ted
50:45Aroya McMillan just winning, it felt to me like he was a hit for the Panthers in a pretty big way.
50:51Harmon, what do you think about Ted Aroya McMillan as an NFL wide receiver going into year two?
50:56Yeah. I mean, no question to hit a 70th percentile success rate versus press is a rookie 72nd versus man coverage.
51:02The routes that he runs the best to me are kind of those intermediate breaking routes.
51:07I mean, I asked him this in February at the Super Bowl, like, what's your favorite route to run?
51:12He said he loves running dig routes. He had a 91.5% success rate on dig routes.
51:17So a good call Ted Aroya McMillan on your best route.
51:20You got that one right based on the charting.
51:22So yeah, I mean, and that all translates by the way to him playing, you know, more in the slot, which I
51:29know they've talked about the Chris Brazel injury makes that a little more complicated because I think he would have been a perfect sacrificial vertical receiver.
51:36And Dave Canales even talked about him as like a field stretcher to open things up for teammates.
51:42But Jalen Coker being like a true stud and somebody that can actually play X receiver as well matters a lot for McMillan moving around.
51:49Cause I think some of those routes, like he basically had the same rookie season from an alignment perspective as like Marvin
51:55Harrison, when everybody's complained about him as a X only option as a rookie, that's, that's what Terrell McMillan had to do.
52:01And he was better, you know, from a production standpoint for sure than Marvin Harrison jr.
52:06So yeah, I think McMillan is a clearly good, clearly a good player.
52:10No question about that. It's just about the environment overall for him and fantasy.
52:14Yeah. And I mean, we're a little bit behind season long ADP here for that reason.
52:18Season long ADP is 38 overall on McMillan. We're at 45 overall.
52:22And that really has nothing to do with him as a player.
52:25It's all the Bryce stuff and the environment stuff.
52:28They're being a little bit behind market on Tet.
52:31I do think Brazil being hurt in a weird way.
52:34Also though, like if there's still intent on him playing in the slot, just like fewer, fewer targets there.
52:39Cause I think Leggett who also got hurt. I mean, the companions have had a disastrous start to camp injury wise, but like Leggett got hurt today.
52:47It pretty much is just like, you're throwing the ball to McMillan and throwing it to Coker.
52:52And I mean, those two guys are both really good, but just how good is Bryce Young?
52:57That's the question. Does not look good for Bryce Young.
53:00And also that tackle situation. I mean, the Panthers are going to open the season without both of their starting offensive tackles.
53:06Yep. And you know, we know that Dave Canales wants to play run first and then you add in the bright Tet
53:12McMillan to me is like one of the toughest dudes to rank this year because look, all three of us believe in his talent, right?
53:19But the environment is just not ideal. Yep. And I, I think like at the tails, you know, that's where that stuff comes into play.
53:27Like, you know, like how many yards, how many touchdowns can team score plays into how often guys hit their 90th, 95th percentile outcome.
53:34Okay. Last one on year two here, Harmon, a little bit more downboard for people in deeper leagues.
53:39Jaden Higgins is expected to play opposite Nico Collins.
53:41I think we've talked before about how they're just like really similar.
53:45And I don't know if you agree, Harmon, but like Nico and Jaden Higgins feel like very, very similar players ish to
53:51me, but I do expect them to be out there in two wide receiver sets.
53:56What's your outlook on Jaden Higgins coming into year two?
53:58Yeah. Higgins was somebody that I was a little skeptical on as a prospect.
54:03Cause I thought I like, he looks like Nico Collins, but he doesn't play like Nico Collins where Nico is like Nico's
54:09unbelievable player, like top five NFL receiver can be press man coverage and X receiver.
54:13And I just thought Jaden Higgins didn't have that same vertical ability to be a true X receiver in the league, which
54:20I think did bear out in his rookie season.
54:22But when he got snaps as the Z receiver, I think his fluidity made a lot more sense there, especially on out cuts and like bigger post routes.
54:30And from the sound of it this year, I think Nico, as much as I, it would be cool to see him
54:37play fewer snaps at X cause he basically only lines up there.
54:40I don't think based on what I've heard that that's going to happen.
54:44I think Nico is going to stay at the X receiver position and Higgins might actually, you know, like Xavier Hutchinson might play more than people want.
54:52And Higgins might end up being the slot in that situation because Jalen null hasn't been healthy and we'll see about tank Dell.
54:58I still love Jalen null. I think he's a really, really good deep sleeper and someone that impressed me in his charting
55:05as a rookie, but Higgins is a, is a guy.
55:08I don't see a lot of people talking about Higgins.
55:10Maybe it's cause CJ Stroud was so bad to end the year, but Stroud was a top 10 quarterback by EPA per play last year.
55:18I think it's a little bit better than maybe the, the kind of lowest moments.
55:22And it just Higgins again, it fits so much better.
55:25He's one of these guys just when you look at him as an X, you know, against vertical, vertical routes against pressman
55:31coverage doesn't look great, but if you can get him off ball, like in the right role, I think he could be
55:38a really productive player that kind of outkicks the expectations when, like I said, I just don't see anybody talking about him right now.
55:45Yeah. I think one of the issues is, you know, what is the ceiling for a number two receiver on a team
55:51with somewhat shaky quarterback play that is built on really on its defense, like one of the most, you know, probably the most talented defense in the NFL.
55:59And they just acquired like a big time bell cow running back, or at least a guy that they envision as a
56:05big time bell cow running back in David Montgomery.
56:08They're going to run the ball a lot. They're going to play really good defense.
56:12They're going to play in low scoring games, probably.
56:15And Jaden Higgins is the number two receiver. You know, it's, it's almost like he needs Nico Collins to get hurt really to offer a ceiling statistically.
56:23Yeah. It's one of the rare wide receivers. Jaden Higgins actually goes later in best ball than season long, which is, you
56:29know, surprising to me, but yeah, you know, a hundred overall in season long is probably going to be a pass for
56:35me, but closer to one 30 or so I think is more interesting on Jaden Higgins there.
56:40And I agree with Harmon. Like I haven't really thought about Jaden Higgins very much and I haven't seen anyone else really talking about.
56:47I'll take him in best ball a decent amount.
56:50Yeah. He did score six touchdowns on 68 targets last year.
56:53I mean, he's a big dude for sure. He'll be able to win in the red zone.
56:58All right, let's go to our next section here, Harmon, which is aging veterans.
57:02Want to start with Devante Adams, who will turn 34 years old in December.
57:06Wide receiver position is not like tight end. There's often pretty severe age clips, even for the best guys around 31, 32.
57:12So we're really starting to push it here on Devante Adams.
57:16I think everybody knows the story what happened last year supported by effectively a goal line role.
57:20They would get inside the five yard line and the play so often was Devante Adams one-on-one get open on a slant or an out.
57:28And he won on that so much ended up with 14 touchdowns.
57:31Harmon, how sustainable is that? Do you think Devante Adams can still win in other ways beyond this goal line role?
57:37Yeah. With all three, really the next guys we're going to talk about, we do come back to that question with aging receivers.
57:44Does it look like this, you know, kind of a steady little decline or do we go right off the cliff?
57:50And for Adams, I think he's kind of already mid process of that steady decline because he brings at least one of
57:56the two things that you need, I think, to age gracefully at the receiver position is that he is a capital E
58:03elite technician, you know, which is why he's still really good in those goal line situations.
58:07I mean, last season, 61st percentile success rate versus man and press coverage, which is how he made a lot of not
58:14just the touchdowns, but even the plays that he would have are kind of, you know, like I mentioned, he doesn't run a lot of vertical routes.
58:21It's 21% of his routes were digs, 23% slants.
58:24Like he runs a lot of those breaking routes in this offense as the X receiver.
58:29And he based on who he was last year can still do that.
58:32Again, the question is just what's the next step down for him?
58:36Because when I'd say he's at 61st percentile success rate versus man and press, this is a guy who's been like 99th
58:42percentile at different points in his career. Like clearly he's not the same player that he once was, but if he's the
58:49guy he was last year, I think he can still hang on for at least another year, but he'll be 34 years old in December.
58:56You know, he already got banged up towards, he did wear down at the end of last year.
59:01Like he came back and wasn't the same player in the playoffs.
59:04So the Rams are a very interesting offense, man, because they're, they're like walking a tight rope, right?
59:10Where they, if everything stays as it is right now, it's going to look pretty good, but there are some significant questions.
59:16And while I said Adams was, was, was impressive as a route runner last year and still could get open on those
59:22particular routes that he runs a lot. If there's another step of decline there, he misses more time.
59:28They do not have any depth behind him and Puka Nakua.
59:31There were rumors and I kind of bought them that the Rams were in on the AJ Brown sweepstakes and that, and
59:37that did not make me feel great about how they feel about Devante Adams.
59:41I mean, I remember talking about, we had this huge fade on Cooper Cup last year.
59:46We had him ranked like, you know, five, six rounds behind ADP and people were freaking out.
59:51And I was just like, man, the Rams does know Cooper Cup better than anyone.
59:55And they decided that Cooper Cup was toast. I, them, it concerns me a little bit on Devante Adams.
60:01That said, he's going 56 overall in season long.
60:03I mean, that's pretty late for a guy that can score double digit touchdowns, 56 overall.
60:08So yeah, Evan, any more thoughts here on Devante Adams?
60:11I just agree. I just agree with Matt Harmon's point that it seems like the Rams offense is almost hanging by a thread.
60:17I mean, on down to, you know, what's going to happen with their left tackle?
60:22Is he going to get suspended? Matthew Stafford is, you know, old, had the back stuff last year, obviously made it through.
60:28It was the MVP, but can he do that again?
60:31Yeah. I mean, I think that they're kind of hanging by a thread.
60:35I think Devante Adams' career feels like it's hanging by a thread right now.
60:39You need him to score a ton of touchdowns to pay off as a fantasy pick because he's not going deep anymore.
60:45Yeah. No. So, I mean, what did he have?
60:48Like he had like 700 some yards last year.
60:50Yeah. You need him to score a ton of touchdowns.
60:53You need Matthew Stafford to almost get close to, what did he have?
60:57A 7.7% touchdown rate last year? That's probably going to regress.
61:00I don't really want Devante Adams this year. Yeah.
61:03Like I said, 56 overall. I want Puka Nakua.
61:05Well, yes. Yeah. Certainly want Puka Nakua. Yeah. Okay.
61:08And the Rams should have drafted Makai Lemon instead of Ty Simpson.
61:11Well, they should have drafted Casey Concepcion, but we'll leave it there.
61:15All right. A little bit of a different type.
61:17Okay. Let's go to another aging veteran. This one changed teams.
61:21AJ Brown is 29 years old now. The AJ Brown tape from last year is really tough.
61:25And I know Harmon looks at this way more than me.
61:29It seemed like at the beginning of the year, at least AJ Brown was so frustrated, pissed.
61:34Like he's a guy that actually, when he's not locked in mentally plays worse.
61:38And it felt like he wasn't locked in mentally.
61:40Maybe he was better towards the end of the year.
61:43I don't know what you think about throwing out tape Harmon, if you have this read on it or not, but where
61:49do you think AJ Brown is at in his career as he heads to new England at age 29?
61:55So yeah, AJ Brown's a tough one because I, again, I have made this mistake in the past where specifically with a
62:01guy like Alan Robinson, like I loved Alan Robinson as a player, but he had like small declines in his reception perception
62:08numbers at the end of his time with the bears.
62:11And I kind of waved those away. And I was super wrong about that because again, he was one of the guys
62:17that just, the next step was not a graceful decline.
62:20It was right off the cliff. So I worry about that with AJ Brown because he, again, he's one of my all-time
62:26favorite receivers of this era from 2020 to 2024.
62:29He averaged a 78.9% success rate versus man, 82.9% success rate versus press, like legit, legit, elite, elite numbers over 81% success rate versus zone.
62:36I mean, that's what the best receivers in the NFL, that's how they chart out.
62:40And he's been one of the best receivers in the NFL this past year.
62:44He dips down to 69.2%, 73% success rate versus man, 73% success rate versus zone and sub 66 against press.
62:50So declines across the board. And to, to your point, Adam, like if you do split the numbers up pre-buy post-buy, cause
62:56I don't, I don't really know how to quantify for sure.
63:00You know, is he out there loafing it or whatever, but the numbers post-buy are significantly better than pre-buy when he was
63:06kind of playing through a hamstring injury coming into the off season.
63:09And then he misses a game for the bite.
63:12Then he has the buy, he comes back and the numbers are better in the back half, but they are still overall
63:18a slight decline from those like truly elite numbers.
63:21So the question with Brown is just again, like what is the next step?
63:25Is it one more good year, two more good years?
63:28Cause even if it just those overall numbers that he's at right now, that could be like, I don't know, DK Metcalf
63:34or something like that, you know, which DK Metcalf is a perfectly fine starting X receiver.
63:39He's just not peak peak AJ Brown. And honestly, like you mentioned the Rams pursuit of AJ Brown, the way I've understood
63:45is that the reason they backed out of that is because they were worried about the medicals.
63:50And this is a 29 year old receiver with a bunch of lower body injuries in a weird way.
63:56The Rams pursuit of AJ Brown makes me feel worse about Devante Adams and AJ Brown.
64:00So honestly, look, if AJ Brown has a monster season in 2025 with the 2026 with the Patriots, I just think he
64:07should be like a one round cheaper in fantasy has been, has been my takes.
64:11Cause I think like 0% of the risk is baked into that cost.
64:15Yep. Yeah. I hear you for sure. One thing that I do think is that they are going to try to get AJ Brown volume.
64:22When you trade for AJ Brown, you know, he better get volume or he is going to cause a problem.
64:28So I think they will try to get him a ton of volume.
64:32I mean, look at Steph Diggs last year. Steph Diggs only played 57% of the snaps and he went over a thousand yards.
64:38Like I do not think volume is going to be the issue for AJ Brown.
64:43I do have some concerns about, yeah, he's expensive for a guy who is 29 with, with knee and hamstring issue.
64:49Also the role really is the question for him too, because he pretty much was just outside on ball last year and
64:55his final year in Tennessee with Mike Vrabel and actually the current receiver coach in new England was Todd Downing was the offensive coordinator.
65:02He played a career high percentage of snaps off the line of scrimmage.
65:06And funny enough, like the Patriots receiver room, if they keep Kayshawn booty is Dobbs, Brown booty.
65:11Those guys were all X receivers last year. So then moving AJ Brown around, I did a whole breakdown on this on my YouTube channel.
65:18If they do kind of have him as more of a move around player, I think that actually would, would help stave
65:24off some of the decline as opposed to just having him run go routes from the X receiver spot.
65:30All right. Yeah. Evan is significantly behind market on AJ Brown here.
65:3330th overall down a little bit recently. Yeah. 30th overall for Silva on AJ Brown against an ADP of 22 overall.
65:39I mean, it is tempting to be like, you know, is Drake made the best quarterback of AJ Brown's like career?
65:45Yeah. Yeah. And he is for sure. And so, all right, AJ Brown is pairing up with the best quarterback of his career.
65:52Let's go all in. But I think that there were some concerns, you know, and also, I mean, Howie Roseman traded him away.
65:59Howie Roseman, probably the smartest GM in the NFL.
66:01It's a little bit too many concerns for me to be drafting him at 22nd overall.
66:06I have him at 30. Yep. Okay. Let's go to another interesting one here, Harmon.
66:10And that is Mike Evans, who will turn 33 years old in a couple of weeks.
66:15The substation talk just won't stop with all these injuries.
66:18And like Mike Evans is not hurt, but he tweaked his quad or whatever earlier this week.
66:22It's not going to help. I honestly think that people are afraid to draft Mike Evans because of the substation.
66:28I'm not even exaggerating. I legit think people assume he's going to get hurt.
66:32He's 33 years old and he packs his next to substation.
66:35So I still thought he played pretty well last year when he was out there.
66:40We'll see what Harmon thinks though. Mike Evans here in San Francisco.
66:43What do you think, Harmon? Yeah. I do want to hear Evan give us a 20 minute breakdown on the substation, but we'll put a pin in that.
66:51I want to talk about your monster water jug that you just took a swill out of.
66:56Well, I saw you were trying to mock me with the like old plastic bottle there.
67:01So no, yeah, this is this is it. This is good engagement pay for you guys.
67:06Every time I take a drink out of the the big jug, I get like 20 YouTube comments on it.
67:11So hopefully this helps you guys as well. But no, yeah.
67:14Mike Evans, like I think he's played really well last year too when he was when he was out there.
67:20You know, he could still be press man coverage from the extra receiver position.
67:24Uh, the routes that he runs, like if you look at, I think one thing that was really misunderstood about the Niners
67:31offense last year is that they were counting on Brandon.
67:34I you to come back, which obviously did not work, did not happen, did not work out.
67:38So they had to kind of like cobble together the extra receiver position with Ricky Pierce saw moment of silence.
67:44Uh, and then Jawan Jennings is the outside on ball receiver.
67:47And, but if you look at like when they have a true X, like I you, they run all of the routes
67:54that Mike Evans is really still good at like dig routes, slant routes, obviously nine routes and out routes.
67:59Like it's, it fits really well for him, but honestly, like the best summary I've heard about, um, Mike Evans is outlook this year.
68:06I was on a show, um, with Scott Barrett and he said that his colleague, Ryan Heath said, whatever happens with Mike
68:13Evans is going to feel extremely obvious in hindsight.
68:15He's either going to stay healthy for like 14 games and score double digit touchdowns, or he's going to play five total games, probably three.
68:22And this is me now, uh, editorializing it. He's gonna play three at the start of the year, tweak his hamstring, come
68:29back for two, and then, then be out for the season.
68:32And like, that'll, that'll pretty much be it. So I have, I have no idea which one of those it is, but
68:38I still thought Evans played well last year and fits the offensive extremely well.
68:42I think he's got a really good year if he stays healthy.
68:46And so at an ADP, a Yahoo ADP of 60, like that's a buy for me of Mike Evans at 60.
68:52I'm not going to play so scared of the substation.
68:55I'm not taking Mike Evans, Kyle Shannon's ex-receiver at 60 overall, you know, like that, that would be a bridge too far
69:01for me to pass on that at 60 personally.
69:04Yeah. I'm at 50. You talk about another offense that feels like it's hanging by a thread.
69:09That's San Francisco. Um, you know, Christian McCaffrey's old and overworked.
69:12Mike Evans is old. Ricky Pierce all is already out for the year.
69:16They just had assigned Debo Samuel. Trent Williams is a million years old and injured.
69:20Their frigging head coach is injured. You know, like it, it seems like the bottom never falls out on San Francisco because
69:26they are so well coached and designed, but yeah, I mean, we could see some major moving parts in San Francisco this year, but I'm with you guys.
69:34Like if, and I love to hear that Harmon thinks that Mike Evans is still playing at a, at a high level.
69:41If everything goes right, if he stays healthy, Mike Evans is going to crush double digit touchdowns, 1200 yards.
69:46Um, yeah, I'm, I'm drafting him for his ceiling.
69:49He's got big time upside. Yeah. We're at 53 overall in the ETR, uh, half PPR ranks there on Mike Evans.
69:55Last aging vet to talk about is DJ more.
69:57So it's at least somewhat scary to me that Ben Johnson wanted to get rid of this guy.
70:03We'll always have that one incredible season that DJ more had with Justin fields where, I mean, that was just absolutely insane.
70:09Certainly ran really pure. I guess the question for a lot of people on DJ more is, is he good enough to
70:15consolidate targets in an offense, which historically has not really consolidated targets very much outside of the digs years, of course.
70:21So Harmon, what do you think about DJ more as Josh Allen's number one this season?
70:26Yeah. I honestly don't have like a high level of conviction on DJ more's production and like fantasy rankings or anything like that.
70:33Um, but I think cause the toughest part about it is that even beyond like the per route stuff, which I think
70:39can be a little bit Caleb Williams induced cause in his rookie year, he took a lot of sacks and throwaways and stuff like that.
70:46But you know, he just, he did, he has performed worse in reception perception, which the goal of the charting is to isolate players from surrounding variables.
70:54He has performed worse the last two years than in his best seasons, both, you know, in Carolina and the first year in Chicago.
71:01Now that being said, I think last year, if you wanted to give him a pass, he just did not fit Ben.
71:07He just doesn't fit Ben Johnson's offense in any way, because Ben Johnson, the two things that he really wants you to
71:14do is he wants you to run dig routes and out routes and be able to play multiple positions.
71:19And he wants you to be on time. He's a very, very detailed coach and DJ more like I like DJ.
71:25I've talked to DJ a lot over the years.
71:28Lucy goosey player. Okay. Like he's not really right and tight on the details.
71:32He won't always be in the right place, the right time, the right route depth and everything like that.
71:37And particularly his two kind of some of his worst routes is like out routes and dig routes.
71:43So that was the routes he ran the most often.
71:46But if you look at like his route chart, and I did a breakdown on this on Twitter, if you just want
71:52to search perception, perception more, you can find it like the routes he's still really good at are nine routes, curl route,
71:58slant routes, which are the routes that Joe Brady wants out of his primary X receiver.
72:03I mean, even freaking Keon Coleman is rookie year.
72:05Those are the routes that he was not running well, but the routes he was running a lot of.
72:11So you can paint a story where he fits this offense better.
72:14And he certainly fits Josh Allen much better from a quarterback perspective.
72:18I remember talking to Josh, like a few years ago when him and Steph digs were cooking.
72:23And he even said, like, I I've told Steph, I don't care about like the route depth or any of that, like just get open.
72:30And it's my job to find you. So I think that from a details perspective, it'll go a little bit better in
72:36Buffalo than it certainly did in Chicago, where he just wasn't a fit.
72:40But like I said, I based on just even still, you can, that's kind of painting a narrative, painting a story.
72:46And there's just no question that I think he has not played as well the last two years.
72:51And he did at his best. So it's kind of hard for me to have a lot of conviction on what he's
72:58going to do, but he will make their offense better that I feel pretty strongly about.
73:02This is one that we're actually behind in the TR ranks.
73:06We're at 57 overall on DJ more ADP is 52 on DJ more here for the bills.
73:10All right. Last category here, Harmon is everybody's favorite.
73:13The rookies want to start with Jordan Tyson, Jordan Tyson.
73:16I know a lot of people thought was maybe the best wide receiver in the draft.
73:21He does come off the board in the top 10, but as the second wide receiver off the board, they do not
73:27have a lot behind Alave and Tyson. There's a competition going on between Devon Vele and a bunch of dust balls for the number three.
73:34So we are expecting Jordan Tyson to play a ton of snaps.
73:38I mean, run a ton of routes as a rookie here.
73:41How do you think he will fare on those routes, Harmon?
73:44Yeah. Tyson wasn't one of my top two, uh, receiver prospects in this class.
73:48I had a couple of guys ahead of him.
73:51Uh, he was my fourth actually, cause I was a big Casey Concepcion guy.
73:55Um, but he did have a lot of encouraging marks in his profile, uh, 89th percentile success rate versus zone coverage.
74:01That only wasn't just the best in this year's class.
74:04That was the best, like one of the top four marks since 2021.
74:07So he's up there with some really promising receivers, including like Garrett Wilson and Drake London and Travis Hunter, uh, Jahan Dotson too.
74:14So you can, you know, obviously scroll past that name, but anyways, uh, yeah, Jordan Tyson though, I he's, he's good at
74:20certain things, but he's not to me, like his release moves against press needs some work.
74:25Uh, his like routes against man coverage are a little too over exaggerated, overrun at times.
74:30That being said for a guy that is his size beats zone coverage is really fluid.
74:34Him landing in new Orleans was like the perfect spot for him.
74:38Cause Kellen Moore, I really liked the way that offense is designed, especially with how much pre-snap motion there is.
74:44And they get like everybody snaps from the slot and off ball.
74:47You can honestly like paint a pretty good picture about how Chris Olave is kind of their top outside man coverage beating receiver.
74:54And yeah, Tyson's going to be that zone beater and eat up a ton of targets in the intermediate area where Tyler Shuck was great throwing the football.
75:02So, um, I obviously some red flags and Tyson's profile, I wouldn't say it was a totally clean prospect, but landed in
75:08the perfect spot for him to have a lot of both immediate and long-term success.
75:12Yeah. And this is one that I think is one of the better wide receiver picks on the board relative to ADP.
75:19I know Silva's in on Jordan Tyson here. Huge, huge.
75:22All right. Let's get to maybe a tougher one here.
75:25Harmon. Carnell take gets this absurd draft capital Titans surprisingly take him at four overall.
75:29The college production was not great. And that's always like, I don't want to say a flag, but I don't like, okay.
75:35He played with Jeremiah Smith. It doesn't excuse like never or rarely having really big games and sustained production.
75:41I think so. I don't know. Harmon many lands with the Titans who, you know, Juan Dale is there and Ridley is there also.
75:48So Harmon, what do you think about Carnell Tate's ability to have a year one impact here with the Titans?
75:53Yeah, I like Tate. He was my number one prospect in the class just because he's, I think really has a high floor.
76:00Um, he can win outside. He can win against man coverage.
76:03He can win on like the straight line vertical routes, which in Brian Dayball's kind of spread and shred offense with Cam Ward as the quarterback.
76:11If he's, if obviously Cam Ward can improve, which low bar, he was statistically one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL last year.
76:18Like that's a good spot for Carnell Tate. Like his, the routes that Cam Ward's going to throw well, he, Carnell Tate runs those routes really well.
76:26However, I do think there's a lot of outcomes where like Wanda Robinson leads this team and catches because Robinson took a
76:32big step last year as an individual player. He knows day ball system and he's going to get like all the easy button targets.
76:39And that's a thing for Tate that he got basically no easy button targets last year, which I think is part of
76:45the context with the collegiate profile, like no screens, very few quick outs or slants.
76:49It's all just old school downfield receiver stuff. And I look at this receiver room in Tennessee right now, and especially again,
76:56in Brian Dayball's offense, like this is not Malik neighbors coming in here.
77:00Like neighbors is a, was a way better prospect.
77:02And I like tape, but Malik neighbors a way better prospect and can like move around the formation, get all the easy
77:09button targets that is probably not going to have with Carnell Tate.
77:12So it's funny when we came into redraft season, originally, I was like, I'm going to have Tate as the number one rookie receiver.
77:19And right now I still kind of do, but I do think Tyson's a guy I need to get a little higher
77:25on because I just think that offense is much better designed and fits his skills to a pretty good degree.
77:31Yeah. I've been taking Tyson ahead of Tate. And one of the reasons is what Harmon said, like if Calvin Ridley is
77:37best in the intermediate and Wanda Robinson's the best in the short, there's a lot of value.
77:42We just saw Alec Pierce get 84 million. There's a lot of value.
77:46These NFL teams think of a guy that goes deep and goes deep and can win.
77:51And like, so yeah, it's just tougher for me on Tate.
77:54So I do take Tyson ahead of Tate here for redraft personally.
77:57Oh, we mentioned my Kai Lemon a little bit when we talked about Devonta Smith.
78:02I think the question, the direct question to Harmon is if the Eagle is going to play a lot of two, two
78:08wide receiver sets, is Makai Lemon going to be pinned as this Jaden Reed, Josh Downs, early career type stuff where he is slot only?
78:15Or do you think the Eagles are willing and able to play Makai Lemon on the outside opposite Devonta Smith?
78:21I generally think like teams would be kind of crazy and the Eagles are a smart team to pay that kind of
78:27draft capital and then kind of pigeonhole them into that role.
78:31And I also think there's a lot of indicators in Makai Lemon's profile that he can do more than just play in the slot.
78:38I think he can at least be a Z and two receiver sets and coming, you know, Sean Manning coming from this
78:44Packers offense, like one of the things they did really well, and he just unfortunately this a lot with Dontabian Wicks, who's
78:50on the Eagles roster where they would use him as the Z and two receiver sets and motion him into the slot and run these out cuts.
78:58And that's some of, I mean, if you look at Makai Lemon's route tree, his outbreaking routes at both depths of the
79:04like flats and outs are some of his best routes.
79:07I actually think that's a good thing for people who are concerned about Makai Lemon fitting with Jalen Hurts and the over the middle stuff.
79:15Some of Makai Lemon's best stuff is like breaking routes outside the numbers.
79:18So I think that like marriage with Jalen Hurts in this new offense will be fine.
79:23Just a question of how much time can he get ramping up to the season?
79:27He's dealt with a hamstring injury in OTAs. He's dealing with a hamstring injury right now.
79:32And as I said with Luther Burden, like I hate when a rookie receiver misses any time in the offseason because it's
79:38just like these are very, very valuable ramp up reps and Lemon is not getting them right now.
79:43And like Wicks is still is definitely one of those guys that I like still have a candle lit for.
79:49I'm not saying he's gonna have a big breakout season, but I think he can still be a useful NFL player.
79:55Yeah. Lemon goes late, Evan. I mean, Lemon goes 95 overall.
79:58And you know, we're even been a little bit behind market on that.
80:02It's a scary fade to me just because it's like Harmon said, it's a good organization.
80:07Makai Lemon is a good player. And I do think that Jalen Hurts has been like somewhat unfairly maligned for not being able to support wide receiver.
80:15So it's a scary fade for me, but we do have a fade right now on Makai Lemon in the ranks for what it's worth.
80:22One of my concerns this year is that the Eagles turn into like a fairly low scoring defense oriented team.
80:28And they use a bunch of multiple tight end sets and they feed Saquon and Don Tavian Wicks is sort of rotating
80:34with Makai Lemon opposite Devante Smith, who is the alpha in the passing game.
80:38And there's just not a whole lot there for Makai Lemon to chew off.
80:42So I just, I don't know, but I mean, in terms of like bet on talent, he's a bet on talent pick.
80:48Yeah, no question. I mean, I know that Adam, Adam has been more optimistic about his fantasy outlook in year one than I have.
80:55Yep. Last rookie is one that we weren't going to talk about until the substation hit.
81:00And that is Dejan Stribbling. The substation got Pearsall.
81:03Christian Kirk is also on the sideline right now.
81:05And so everybody is talking about Stribbling as their favorite quote unquote sleeper.
81:09It's an interesting one to me, Harmon, because the prospect bros hated Stribbling so much.
81:13And if you listen to the reports, the NFL loved Stribbling so much, he ends up going 33 overall, right down the prospect bros esophagus.
81:21So Harmon, what do you think about Stribbling here who is now ticketed for what looks like a pretty big role for the 49ers?
81:27I mean, the substation kind of got him too, right?
81:30Like he's got a little bit of a hamstring thing.
81:33So, I mean, the substation is in mid-season form.
81:36So there is that, but no, I liked Stribbling.
81:38You know, I mean, I, we posted a video a couple of days before the draft where I said like he was my favorite day two sleeper.
81:46It's our most viewed YouTube video of all time.
81:49So shout out to Dejan Stribbling, you know, just a content machine, but he goes even higher than I had him ranked as a day two prospect.
81:57He goes obviously 33rd overall. And the reason is that like this guy is just a total coach's favorite.
82:02This is what happens when guys get boosted up late in the process.
82:06It's because that the coaches have, I all finally started watching prospects.
82:09And this guy is just total coaches catnip, especially this offensive system, because one, he's a great blocker in the run game.
82:16He catches everything and he's really good with the ball in his hands.
82:19Like this guy breaks tackles, but his overall route tree, like there's a lot of red in it, but you kind of
82:26need to give that some context because he's not going to run a ton of nine routes where he, and he did
82:32run a ton of nine routes at Ole Miss, but the two routes he's really good on are like routes breaking over
82:39the middle of the field, dig routes and slant routes.
82:41And that's what this offense wants from its, from his receivers.
82:45So, I mean, I think he could be like a Juwan Jennings plus type of player because he's way more athletic than
82:51Juwan Jennings, but he has the same like toughness.
82:54Like he breaks his routes off. Well, I think he could play, I think he could play Z.
82:59I think he could play slot. And I think he can dabble at the X receiver position if Mike Evans were to ever get hurt.
83:06So yeah, I like stripling. I don't think he's some kind of just joke.
83:10And I think he's like a legit player. Yeah.
83:13I mean, in my head, he's just like a much more athletic and better version of Juwan Jennings and Juwan Jennings had some very productive fantasy seasons.
83:20And the other thing I talked about on market Monday was you get the fragility on the other guys.
83:26Like we talk about the injury risk to Kittle, to Mike Evans, to CMC, all that stuff would be good for stripling also there.
83:33So yeah, I think he's a good pick for sure.
83:36I mean, he's been going way too late lately.
83:38That's for sure. Just to underline the athleticism advantage that does one stripling brings to the table over Juwan Jennings does one
83:45stripling ran four, three, six coming out. Juwan Jennings ran four, seven, two.
83:48So there, I mean, they're kind of on a different planet from a speed standpoint.
83:53For sure. All right. We now will give the floor to Matt Harmon.
83:57Let's start with your two most underrated wide receivers in the NFL.
84:00We're not talking fantasy here. I don't think Harmon, I think we want to do this under the terms of just real
84:06life NFL, two most underrated wide receivers in your head.
84:09Let's just do one first thing we can talk about it.
84:12And then we'll go to the other one. Yeah.
84:15One guy we already touched on was Josh Downs.
84:18And I mean, to be clear, I am drafting both of the guys I'm going to talk about here in underrated players
84:24in fantasy, because I think they're going way too late, but Josh Downs in particular, like there's just no reason why this
84:30guy, I think other than health can't handle 120 targets and be the leading receiver on the Colts this year.
84:36He beats man coverage at all three levels. Like I said, a Tyler Lockett type of player.
84:41Honestly, he's been, he's been a good NFL player.
84:44When he's been on the field, he's been a useful, productive player for the Indianapolis Colts.
84:48This hasn't had quite a big role yet. I think this is the year he gets a big role and just like,
84:55this is the Josh Downs season to me. Okay.
84:57Yep. We hit on that one. I totally agree.
85:00I think we all are in on Josh Downs this year.
85:03Let's go to your second most underrated wide receiver in the NFL.
85:06Yeah, this one's Roma Dunsay to me. And I look, I really liked Roma Dunsay as a prospect.
85:12I thought he had a solid rookie season. And like one thing that you said earlier, Adam was that like Ben Johnson
85:18inherited Roma Dunsay, which is true, but then he inherited Roma Dunsay and proceeded to run his entire offense through him in
85:24the first eight weeks of the season before he picked up the foot fracture.
85:28And when he Roma Dunsay played, I mean, he was, he was awesome to me outside of contested catch situations, which was a problem for him last year.
85:37And he does need to improve on that. But 85th percentile success rate versus man, 93rd percentile success rate versus press while
85:43not playing like an X only role. Again, I think people misunderstand that about Roma Dunsay.
85:47This guy played all three receiver positions last year, was in the slot on 29% of his sampled snaps outside on 64.9%.
85:54He was off ball on 47%. Like this is not just a vertical X receiver.
85:58He, he ran a ton of those breaking routes.
86:01We talked about the DJ Moore wasn't great on Roma Dunsay was awesome on those.
86:05He's a high end separator. Like you tell me, I can bet on a guy who does need to like tweak out some final details in his game.
86:13No question about it, but separates at that level and is playing in an off.
86:18Like what I, again, what I think is going to be a top three offense this year with one of the best
86:24coaches in the NFL with other good surrounding players and a quarterback that I think is ascending.
86:29Like I will make that bet every single day of the week.
86:32Good to hear him kind of clarify this stuff on the foot injury.
86:36Cause that would be the only kind of question I would, I would have for him is what like health levels yet.
86:42But I think this is to me again, in my opinion, this is a guy who already broke out last year and
86:49just suffered a foot fracture in the middle of the season.
86:52Yeah. People talk about the catchable target rate a lot on Rome.
86:55And to me, that kind of speaks to where these guys are used.
86:59Like Caleb is not that accurate. And so the deeper down the field you go, like your, your, your catch rate is going to go down.
87:07And so people are like, oh my God, the catchable target rate was so low.
87:11It's got to bounce back. Yeah. It might bounce back some, I don't think he's ever going to be like an elite catchable target guy.
87:18And as Harman said, he struggled in contested catches, which maybe speaks to Caleb a little bit, throwing them into contested stuff too.
87:25So I think just the role would better for burden.
87:28That is why I would take burden significantly ahead of Rome personally.
87:31But yeah, I know there's people out there that think Rome should go ahead of burden.
87:36I mean, I think that there's a scenario where all these guys smash for sure.
87:40First of all, I think you can paint a picture where the offense is fairly condensed, where you got three pass catchers
87:47and then you got the running backs, but Oduunze can get there.
87:50I, I've been lowest on Oduunze, but I don't want to end up with zero Oduunze because I, I think that all
87:56these dudes can smash Loveland burden, Oduunze, Swift, all these guys, because of the, the, the complexion of the offense, um, all
88:03these guys can get there and beat their ADPs.
88:05For sure. Certainly set up as a shootout team.
88:08All right, let's go to your two most overrated wide receivers in the NFL.
88:12Yeah. One is where she rice. I mean, only from like a fantasy perspective is he just, people think he's like what he's not.
88:19I mean, he's not bad at like his individual given role, like as a short route, you know, success rate versus own coverage is really good for him.
88:27The problem really is more so just the chiefs overall is they need somebody else to emerge.
88:32And like, I love Cyrus Allen. Cyrus Allen is my guy.
88:35Uh, like I've been saying since before the draft, well, since he was drafted by the chiefs is like, you get two beers in me.
88:42I would tell you that's the best separator, uh, on the chiefs roster.
88:46Uh, we, we took the countdown to zero. Uh, he is the best separator on the chiefs roster.
88:51Uh, he just needs to be out there because rice just has never been a good press man coverage beater.
88:57Like I was hoping last season that you go back and see like, Oh, he made a lot of steps as a route runner.
89:04You know, he was winning down the field. He just doesn't do it.
89:08And again, that's fine for his individual role, but you can't run a healthy passing offense through that guy when you don't have complimentary threats.
89:15And that's the thing. Like what makes me most nervous?
89:18I, I'm not going to say like, don't draft for she rice and fantasy because obviously if he's has the role that
89:24he had last year, he will smash and he'll be great.
89:27The problems with that though, is it like they did that last year and their offense had major problems doing that.
89:33And they bring in Kenneth Walker for a reason, I think to inherit a lot of those like extension of the run game targets.
89:40So yeah, I just wouldn't write it in pen that rice is going to have this role for the rest of his career.
89:47I think the chiefs would be pretty bad for that, especially cause like, honestly, he was worse last year from a separation
89:53standpoint, cause he was coming back from an injury and he's coming back from an injury again this year.
89:59So yeah, I think rice is a guy that is good at what he does.
90:03It's just like a limited picture, kind of like a poor man's Debo Samuel to me.
90:08Yeah. I don't love getting super high on a wide receiver who goes in the third round, whose offense is better when they don't go through him.
90:16You know, like that, that seems like a pretty bad thing.
90:19We are slightly below market market is around 29 overall on Rishi Rice right now.
90:23All right, Harmon. By the way, Evan is way down on Rishi rice 43 overall for Evan on Rishi rice here right now.
90:30All right. Last one, Harmon, your second most overrated wide receiver.
90:33Yeah, I think this guy's fine. Like I don't think Jordan Addison is a bad NFL player, but I kind of see
90:39him get grouped in with like, Oh, the, the, like some of the best number two receivers in the NFL.
90:45And I think he's like a fine number two receiver in the NFL.
90:49So I kind of struggled to pick like another guy that I thought is really overrated, but, um, I just kind of
90:55generally think that the whole Vikings ecosystem is a little bit overrated.
90:59The Justin Jefferson's awesome. You know, one of the best receivers of the reception perception era 2014 to current, but I think
91:05Addison's a guy who's like 56 percentile success rate versus man 20th versus zone.
91:09And he's really more of like a boomer bus downfield receiver to me.
91:13He's not a guy that runs a lot of routes, uh, closer to the line actually is 5.9% slant route rate is
91:19the second lowest I've ever charted in the history of reception perception.
91:23Like he runs a lot of these boomer bus downfield routes.
91:26He's pretty good at those, but I think it's a little bit more volatile maybe than his profile is credited.
91:32I mean, I'm getting scared on Addison, not just because of what Harmon said, which I certainly, um, respect, but also like
91:38if Kyler Murray can't just ice JJ McCarthy in this quarterback competition, what does that say about Kyler Murray?
91:43You know? So, and Kyler Murray got benched for Joey Bursette and got outplayed by Joey Bursette.
91:48So like I'm starting to get a little queasy on both Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison, um, where they go.
91:54So yeah. Um, all right. This was awesome. Learned a ton.
91:57Harmon, tell the people where they can find you and where they can find your work.
92:02Yeah. Uh, Yahoo fantasy forecast is live, uh, five days a week, Sunday to Thursday, uh, wherever you get your podcast, YouTube
92:08channel, uh, as well, Josh and Hayden in the mix now as well.
92:12So just hell of a time to be at Yahoo, but reception, perception.com.
92:16If you like anything that you heard here today, um, reception, perception is, is bigger and better than ever.
92:21Uh, we got a new player comparison tool, my dynasty rankings, you compare them to the market and I'm still putting out
92:28profiles every single Monday leading up till August 31st for our last call drop.
92:32So it should have 70 players, 60 to 70 players, uh, just NFL players, not many more prospects over 30 prospects.
92:38In addition to that on the site, by the time week one rolls around, if you liked what you heard today, you will definitely like reception, perception.com.
92:46All right. Reception is awesome. Check it out for sure.
92:48And as always, thank you, Matt, for all of the time for Evan, for Matt, for producer, Luke, producer, Ryan.
92:54I am Adam. Good luck. Everybody.