5 Players with Unlimited Ceilings Thanks To Playcalling
STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this video and kept the full transcript here for context.
37 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jul 28, 2026
Published
Tue, July 28, 2026
13
Player insights
13
Players mentioned
Topics
Ashton JeantyBrock BowersBrock PurdyD'Andre SwiftDe'Von AchaneGeno SmithJahmyr GibbsJakobi MeyersJonathan TaylorMichael MayerPuka NacuaQuinshon JudkinsSaquon Barkley
Player analysis
Player insights
Ashton Jeanty
PositiveRole5:10
Rookie running back faced a brutal offensive line situation in 2024; the source emphasizes that offensive line is the primary driver of production and notes that Jeanty will almost certainly perform better this year with improved line play. Jeanty has a unique play style as a power runner who tries to run over defenders rather than an ultra-dynamic outrun type, contrasting with players like Jahmyr Gibbs or Saquon Barkley; he might accumulate 75 yards while breaking four tackles on the way, whereas Gibbs or Barkley might go untouched. The Raiders need to get the run game on track after it didn't improve last year despite the pick.
Insight pageBrock Bowers
PositiveRole1:27
The Raiders' explicit offseason goal was to set a single-season record for catches and targets for Bowers before his week-one injury derailed the plan. Despite the injury hampering him throughout the season with snap management and ongoing limitations, the source emphasizes that Clint Kubiak should consider funneling an insanely high percentage of the offense through Bowers again. Kubiak's offensive scheme history of funneling a high percentage of offense through one player makes Bowers an ideal candidate for that role; the pass catcher unit is so strong that Bowers could function as the starting X receiver in 12 personnel with Michael Mayer as the Y tight end, similar to how JSN's target share was sustained last year. Bowers is one of the source's favorite picks on the board.
Insight pageBrock Purdy
NegativeInjury29:02
Brock Purdy was being experimented with for QB sneak plays in camp as an alternative to Geno Smith, but suffered a knee injury in the first game, which derailed the Seahawks' sneak play experimentation plans for the season.
Insight pageD'Andre Swift
PositiveValue10:52
Swift is in the fifth round ADP with Ben Johnson as his offensive coordinator. Johnson ranks second among all playcallers with the highest designed run rates, and having a top-four run-design playcaller helps elevate running back value.
Insight pageDe'Von Achane
NegativeRole13:45
Achane transitions from Mike McDaniel's third-ranked design run rate offense to Bobby Slowik's 19th-ranked design run rate offense, with Slowik's offenses also ranking 25th in negative rush rate. The speaker expresses concern about this playcalling downgrade, noting that Achane is a superstar back whose production depends heavily on scheme efficiency; however, the Dolphins' improved offensive line (including Kayden Proctor) and Slowik's potential to study McDaniel's successful run designs may mitigate the risk.
Insight pageGeno Smith
NegativeInjury28:55
Geno Smith had very few sneaks in his college or professional career, and people questioned whether it fit his body type. The Seahawks were experimenting with QB sneaks in camp, but Geno suffered a groin injury in the first game that lingered, which slowed their sneak play experimentation plans for the season.
Insight pageJahmyr Gibbs
PositiveValue6:00
Gibbs is attached to Mike McDaniel's Chargers offense, which ranks third in explosive run rate while ranking bottom three in dead runs—indicating efficient, high-upside run design. This is notable because Gibbs and the rushing attack achieved significant success with Ben Johnson in Detroit, and now benefits from McDaniel's proven run-design excellence. Gibbs is an ultra-dynamic outrun type who can hit a crease and go 75 yards untouched, contrasting with power runners like Ashton Jeanty.
Insight pageJakobi Meyers
PositiveRole1:47
Meyers was the Raiders' top receiver entering last season but created roster instability by requesting a trade, which weakened the receiver group and elevated Bowers' role necessity. The Raiders' receiver group was consensus 32nd or close to it, making Meyers' departure a key factor in the team's decision to heavily target Bowers.
Insight pageJonathan Taylor
PositiveValue11:20
Jonathan Taylor is the eighth overall pick on Yahoo under Shane Steichen's playcalling. Steichen ranks among the top playcallers in designed run rate, supporting Taylor's elite draft capital in a run-heavy offensive system.
Insight pageMichael Mayer
NegativeRole3:57
Paganetti notes that Michael Mayer would serve as the Y tight end in the Raiders' potential 12 personnel package, with Bowers functioning as the X receiver, indicating a complementary depth chart role rather than a primary target role.
Insight pagePuka Nacua
PositiveRole32:32
If healthy, Puka Nacua is a dynamic player with strength who could be used in rugby scrum/sneak-type plays for the Rams, offering an alternative to using tight ends in these short-yardage situations. The speaker suggests there's no compelling reason to limit such dynamic plays to tight ends when Nacua's physical profile and athleticism make him a viable option for creative playcalling schemes.
Insight pageQuinshon Judkins
PositiveValue10:41
Judkins is in the middle of the fifth round ADP despite playing for Todd Monken, who ranks first among all playcallers with a 14.3% designed run rate. The source notes this is notable because Judkins lacks a mobile quarterback like Lamar Jackson, yet still benefits from one of the league's most run-heavy offensive designs.
Insight pageSaquon Barkley
NegativeRole6:00
Comparison point for running back play style; like Jahmyr Gibbs, Barkley is an elite athlete who can go untouched at times, contrasting with Ashton Jeanty's power-runner approach that relies on breaking tackles.
Insight pageFull transcript
Episode Transcript
0:00The entire goal of the off season is to identify the stats that will help you win your fantasy league. It's really
0:05that simple. But, I'm sure when you watch all these videos, you read all these analysts, the same numbers are repeated every single week. So,
0:12today's mission to present you with at least five underlying metrics, five completely new stats that will give you an edge in your drafts. And the perfect
0:21man for this challenge is Ryan Paganetti. First, Ryan, welcome to the show. And second, you know, tell the people what you've been up to for the
0:29last decade that makes you perfectly suited for this challenge.
0:32>> Well, I really appreciate you guys having me. Um you know, I started in the NFL in 2015 with the Eagles and I've sort of done a
0:39bunch of different analytics and coaching type roles there. I was there I was there for 6 years with coach Peterson and and um you know, we we
0:46managed to have a lot of success there in terms of you know, we won the Super Bowl. We we were kind of
0:51ahead of the game a little bit on some of the things like fourth downs and two-point conversions and QB sneaks and
0:56whatnot. And then I spent 3 years with the the Jaguars as director of football analytics and you know, I was kind of
1:02diving a little bit more into the personnel side in addition to the the coaching side there. And really uh this last year I I was with you know, Pete
1:09Carroll who's I absolutely love and I always will love and I I you know, I hope to see him in the
1:14He might He deserves to be in two Hall of Fames in my opinion. Like just just an awesome guy. He was kind of dealt
1:19some, you know, difficult circumstances with the team that wasn't maybe necessarily ready to go last year, but >> Uh you mentioned that you worked with
1:25Pete Carroll in the Raiders last year.
1:27You recently posted that quote, we had a goal last season in Las Vegas of single season record for catches and targets
1:34for Brock Bowers before the week one injury. So, Ryan, how are you guys going to achieve that? And maybe most importantly, do you think that's going
1:42to be possible and is another goal that Clint Kubiak might have for Brock Bowers this season?
1:46>> I just you know, just from my familiarity with that roster, like we were basically looking at that last year and
1:53the talent that we had on hand. You You I know a bunch of different you know, where you really stack your team up in
1:59talent is always a little bit controversial and you know, it's it's very good from like a media perspective to do ranks and whatnot, but there was a
2:07consensus that the receiver group for the Raiders entering last season was in some cases 32nd or quite close to 32nd.
2:15And there was a little bit of like a situation with Jakobi Meyers wanted to get traded and he was kind of our top
2:19guy and there was like some instability there.
2:22And um you know, Brock Bowers like had I think he was like graduating from Georgia or something like that. He showed up at some point OTAs
2:30and the coaches were just kind of looking around and they're like this is this is there are some things going on.
2:37And he had just come off his first season that I believe he set like the NFL record for catches for a tight end
2:41or something and um we're just kind of looking around like given the roster distribution saying like this makes way too much
2:48sense that we're we're not doing a good job coaching if we're not figuring out how to get him the ball as much as
2:52possible. So that was sort of like the attitude and you know, I printed out a piece of paper for like Pete and Chip
2:59and and I just I think it it was either early in training camp or in OTAs I'm just cuz I and it was essentially like what are the
3:06actual records and I'm like we're going to just keep a tally of this every week as like an aiming point. And the
3:12attitude from them was like oh, let's let's smash those records. Like just given where we were as a team and like
3:17what from a macro perspective where we thought like our kind of difference-maker player was and then week one he had a pretty significant injury. I
3:26think he had a 108 yards.
3:28Yep. Like say two and a half quarters in the game whatever. Don't quote me on that exact number, but he gets that
3:33injury and he was significantly hampered and it was like an ongoing narrative. He wasn't practicing. He's like there's can't even do walk-throughs some days.
3:42They we end up shutting him down for period. He comes back and he gets like three touchdowns in a game and um but
3:46then he's you know, he gets he's still kind of managing it. And so there was there was considerations like managing his snaps, like was he getting was he
3:54drawing additional attention and really the combination of the injuries and you know that some other players on the offense clearly not performing really
4:03where you would hope and it just was sort of snowballed where you know then we we even had a play caller change during the season and and
4:09like so all these different variables made it a little bit complex but if I was Clint Kubiak and I had and I also just funneled like
4:17an insanely high percentage of my offense through one player if I was thinking I might do that again like doing that for Brock Bowers makes
4:24all the sense in the world just given he nobody can actually with a serious face can like show up to their practice
4:31look at the pass catcher unit and not say you actually might think he's the starting XY receiver like we were going
4:37to do that at at different points where we're like why don't we just make him our X and we just 12 will be our base
4:42offense and Michael Mayer will be our Y tight end you know I I was I was keep certainly keeping an eye on like how
4:48unsustainable the JSN target share was last year but then he just kept doing it and he kept succeeding it's so like if I
4:54was Clint I'd be like I'm just going to try that again like why not [laughter] >> I think that Trey McBride ran what over
5:00100 more routes than any other tight end in the NFL last year so Hayden I know that Brock Bowers is one of our favorite
5:06picks in the board this year >> he's he's going to go crazy just real quick we don't spend a lot of time on
5:10this is there anything about the Raiders analysis from Ashton Jeanty obviously the situation was brutal offensive line just him by himself comparing him to
5:18other backs across the league was there any consensus in the building after watching his rookie season >> I um well let me put it this way like
5:26I as an as an analytics person there there's like a certain belief system of like I'm the big offensive line first
5:32guy I was there in Philadelphia where you know at times we were basically putting practice squad backs behind like a great offensive line and having
5:39production and um it was clear that the offensive line really needed massive improvement there and almost certainly Jeanty will perform better this year. They have some things
5:50they got to sort out with some of the offensive line positions still. You know, they got basically two guys that are like confirmed starters and then the
5:55other ones are a little bit up in the air. You know, Jente has a unique play style where he's definitely a little bit
6:00more of a try to run you over guy rather than like the ultra dynamic outrun you type player and it's definitely an
6:08interesting kind of contrast with some guys like Jahmyr Gibbs where you're sort of like sweating that if he hits a crease, he's going to
6:14go like 75 and like that's not to say that Jente can't, but he might get 75 and break four tackles on the way. Jente
6:21and and and you know, Gibbs or Saquon might go untouched at times. I think it'll be interesting. There's definitely a lot There was a lot of eyeballs on
6:29that decision of making that pick last year.
6:33You know, that's ultimately like that's the the route that the team decided to go with and it it didn't result in the
6:40team improving run game-wise last year and I think it seems like that was an emphasis for this year that whatever whatever other like components they
6:48added the team, they really need to get the run game on track.
6:50>> I got to ask was this more of like like analytics department or was it something different because I know a lot of people
6:55that watch fantasy football shows like their dream job would be like in the analytics department of these NFL teams.
7:00Could you just give us some backstory and just exactly how analytics departments work behind the scenes for these NFL teams?
7:05>> Yeah, I I'd say you know, a lot in a lot of cases there's it used to be like sort of when I
7:10started almost like one or two man shops and things have really expanded where now teams aren't shrinking their analytics departments. They're just getting bigger
7:18and you know, I I bring up baseball for example where you know, some people quote some of these top teams of having you
7:24know, essentially 40 quantitative people now and like and like the direction of of football like the some teams are like approaching tennis and it's probably
7:33going to continue to go up especially in this world of like the player tracking data and everything, but whether it's like
7:39draft modeling like free agency evaluations, trades, uh game planning, league-wide studies, like all sorts of cap implications. Um I think you're
7:49seeing more and more of the data really being utilized in all those different worlds, and the thing I think that the
7:55Eagles did an amazing job of is that uh you know, the it seemed like the message from Jeffrey Lurie and Howie
8:01Roseman was like basically every important decision was going to be cross-checked with analytics. And if And if there was some data that said don't
8:08do this, like they were going to pause and be like, you know, let's look into this. Let's think about this. And um
8:13it's really to me like if if you say if an organization made 10,000 decisions in 2015, there was a lot of places that maybe
8:21used some kind of data for like 10 of them. And now now you have teams that are basically using some kind of data
8:27for nearly every decision.
8:29Um so it's it's it's it's a really uh it's an interesting world where like just like the coaches are trying to beat
8:34the other coaches and the scouts are trying to, you know, do a better job of evaluating players, like the analytics people I think are trying to have better
8:41information for their own staffs, too.
8:43>> You mentioned game planning and trying to understand these play callers and coaches. We love doing that, too. Ryan, uh because in the end, you
8:51know, you don't get fancy points unless people actually score points on the field and yards on the field every Thursday, Sunday, and Monday on top of
8:58it. So, let's dive into some of the information you've been sharing uh on Twitter that is @RyanPaganetti. Uh everything we talk about today comes
9:05from that. And the first chart we're going to bring up here, the play callers with 10-plus yards design run rates uh
9:11throughout their entire career. So, typically this is viewed, Ryan, from our lens through individual running backs, individual ball carriers. But I love
9:19looking at it how you have done it here with the, you know, offensive designers, with the play callers. So, I'm not going
9:26to shout out anything. I just want to present this to you since you presented it to us, and ask what stood out to you
9:31when you put these numbers together.
9:32>> A lot of the the top names are consistently guys that are, you know, fairly well regarded in terms of run
9:38game designs. And one thing I think that stands out to is like there's a little bit of a of a consideration that some of
9:45the top performers also had a like running type quarterback because that's absolutely has a huge boost in the run game whether they can read a defender,
9:55whether it's Kyler Murray or, you know, Lamar Jackson with Todd Monken. But you see some of these guys in particular that, you know, have succeeded even
10:02without what would be considered like a true running quarterback. For example, like Ben Johnson with Jared Goff and and what, you know, Caleb can can run a
10:10little bit, but that's not going to be like a main thing that they do as much as other teams. And then Mike McDaniel
10:15with you know, Tua certainly wasn't really a heavy run guy there, but you see some of the exceptional like big play upside
10:22of some of these guys. How much of it was an offensive line situation in the past? Was there something with running
10:27back talent and all that? But I think there's at least some level of concern if like guys over some big samples are
10:33showing up relatively low on some of these rankings. I do want to call attention to a couple of these names specifically. So, at the top of the list
10:41it's Todd Monken at a 14.3% rate. We know that Quinshon Judkins is in the middle of the fifth round now.
10:48No mobile quarterback and Lamar Jackson attached to him, but point still stands.
10:52As you mentioned Ben Johnson with the Bears, De'Andre Swift also in the fifth round. Then you get to Mike McDaniel third on this list now with the
10:59Chargers. We know Marvin Mims Hampton is at that 1.2 turn. Trey Palmer the 1.01 attached to Jahmyr Gibbs which is notable because we know what Jahmyr
11:09Gibbs and that rushing attack did with Ben Johnson who's second on the list.
11:11So, still having a top four guy among this as calling plays and designing the run game helps. Shane Steichen obviously Jonathan Taylor the eighth
11:20overall pick on Yahoo right now. Ryan, I also want to take you to one part being the explosive plays that we just outlined, but also avoiding
11:28negative runs, avoiding dead runs is a major part of this too. You also posted this chart. Uh what stood out to me here is how Mike
11:37McDaniel on the previous was ranked third on explosive runs rate and then now ranked bottom three in terms of
11:46number of dead runs. Now, from the outside, I can guess that that is maybe an offensive line stat.
11:54Also, where these runs kind of originate for him at the same time. Um there's a whole bunch of things I could
12:01dive into here. When conversely, you know, Ben Johnson ranks at the top of of nearly both.
12:06Uh what stands out to you? Again, Nick Kayley, the Texans are 22nd out of 26 teams here. So, it's almost Would you
12:13say combining these two and maybe looking at the overlap uh is maybe the best way to approach how
12:23the run structure is going to feature for these teams this year?
12:27>> To me, part of the story that it's telling is that Ben Johnson is really good at coaching football.
12:31>> Yeah.
12:31>> Because he's avoiding negatives and he's just methodically getting big chunks as well. And so like it's interesting how some of these lists are a little bit
12:38different. I think the Bills are kind of interesting that they're actually a little bit higher here in terms of popping off some big runs.
12:43>> Yeah.
12:44>> Um you know, Kellen Moore is up there a little bit higher, which I think is interesting, too, because they they had
12:48a little bit of a struggling run game last year, but you know, there's some reasons to think that could improve. You
12:52know, I think uh Mike McDaniel's if that I think it'll has a lot to do with the the scheme being very high risk, high
13:00reward. Like there's sometimes where you see Yeah, like outside runs, tosses, reverses.
13:06Um he he'll come up with stuff every every game or two that no one's ever run before and sometimes those things are
13:11awesome and it's a gash, and then sometimes like maybe part of the reason no one's run it before is because like it's a little bit
13:17of a funky [laughter] deal, and then like there's like a 2-yard loss in there. But, you know, I think uh it's it's an interesting like if if just
13:25thinking stability and like if you're like I want I want a guy that I feel pretty comfortable on a, you know, week in a
13:31week out basis is going to come up with a run game that's probably going to be pretty efficient and, you know, you're
13:36I I think you you have to at least think Ben Johnson's kind of up there and you know, Matt LaFleur up there too, I think
13:41was a little bit interesting, too, especially because they're like rivals or whatever.
13:45>> Payton, the thing that stood out to me is Devon Achane going from Mike McDaniel's play calling, which is, again, third in
13:54design run rate that leads to an explosive, to now Bobby Slowik, who obviously was with the Texans and now gets a second time calling plays here
14:02with the Dolphins to 19th. And then also, Slowik's offense is ranked 25th in terms of uh negative rush rate.
14:10>> I mean, it makes me nervous, but I think Slowik would be smart to kind of study what Mike McDaniel was doing. And also,
14:15I think that Dolphins' offensive line has really come along, especially when you get Kayden Proctor in there, when the Slowik offensive lines were terrible
14:23with with the Texans. But, uh I never saw anything like super original out of Bobby Slowik, and that does make me a
14:29little bit nervous, but Devon Achane is like one of these superstar backs that like it's kind of on you. If you can't
14:34make that work behind that offensive line at this point, like you're not going to be in the the play calling chair for very long.
14:40>> From your experience, have you ever been a part of an organization where uh such a prophetic
14:49that's the right term to use uh in terms of just a great genius moves on and then he's kind of replaced with someone who
14:57uh maybe doesn't run the exact same style, but can kind of pick up on some of the uh outlines of what the departed
15:03play caller left in his place?
15:05>> If you're if you're a coach in the NFL, like the shelf life is is is short and the turnover is so high, you're you're
15:12usually better off following up somebody who was like not well regarded.
15:16>> Yeah.
15:16>> Like I I feel bad for the the the O-line coach in Philadelphia this year. He's like stepping in for like a Hall of Fame
15:23O-line coach and like I I don't I I I hope he does a great job and he's got some players to work with
15:28and everything, but just like the standard that's set at times is tricky.
15:31And like so you definitely see coaches like studying what was successful with the previous coach because like you don't necessarily just want to abandon
15:39everything. Like it would be kind of foolish if the Dolphins just like lit every single run design they had on fire
15:44last year when they have they were doing some things that were really cool in the run game and at times they were getting
15:48huge plays. And if somebody like is such an outperformer. Like I can assure you most offensive coaches around the league have had some somebody on their staff is
15:57studying what Sean McVay and Ben Johnson has have done these like last couple years.
16:01Um because it's it's almost like malpractice not to at least take a look at it.
16:05>> Before we move on from the running backs, I had a question about just what NFL teams are doing to kind of grade
16:11running backs. So we have like next gen stats to public model with it. They're doing their best to kind of account for
16:16the boxes, how good the offensive line is. I see that you some of these charts use an NFL fast star. That's what I use.
16:22I have my own models, rush yards over expected success rate. Is there is there something that teams have access to that
16:27is just way outclass what the public does? And then follow up to that, do teams uh look at what's what some people are
16:34posting onto Twitter and ESPN and stuff?
16:37Uh is there any kind of like making sure that the media doesn't have some idea that maybe we haven't thought of before?
16:43>> Well, I always I was always refreshing Twitter. If I would find something that was good or useful, I'd just like print
16:48it out and give it to the head coach. I didn't care. Like like there's why would you not use the information? And now
16:53that there's so much data out there and there's a lot of like interesting analysis being done, you know, on social media. A lot of times these coaches
17:00actually get asked in their weekly press conferences just based off something that came up. Like, "Hey, you're 30th in the league in middle of the field
17:07throws." And it's comes from somebody just like pulled something together.
17:10>> Yep.
17:11>> Um the uh in terms of the run game, like there's you when you're on the team side, like you have access to this expected rush
17:19yards that on like a play-by-play level.
17:22And it's it's honestly, I'm not entirely sure if you can get access to that in the public sphere of like the one that's
17:27built entirely off of the tracking data.
17:29And I think you can get like summary stats of it, but on the team side like you could legitimately say like, "Oh,
17:34this play was supposed to get 2.3 yards and the running back got like 3.9." The play-by-play level information on that, I'm not entirely sure how much of that
17:42is available in the public. I think it's a little bit limited. And but like it's the same thing with like pass game like
17:49the expected completion rates and whatnot. Like it's it's really useful to kind of evaluate um with a little bit more precision and say like okay like
17:56great that ball was completed, but maybe you shouldn't have thrown that you tell your quarterback because it was like a 42% chance of completion rate and there
18:04was another opportunity and and stuff like that.
18:06>> So NFL teams it's all tracking data now.
18:08It's like like for a lot of the public information it's like the tenant okay, how many people are in the box and then
18:14you can build it sometimes a model. But the the team stuff is like all of just like we have every single helmet tracked
18:18at this point and all of the models are based off of that. We don't need the the stuff that the public usually has access
18:25to.
18:25>> I would say I it's it's still a blend and like dude that's where you get the differentiation between the teams that
18:30are like taking analytics seriously versus not is the ones that are kind of leaning into that a little bit more. But
18:35there's still the public sources are are leaned on like PFF had a relationship or still has a relationship with every team. It's the same thing with college
18:42like where where you get you know, a lot of these objective metrics like who what's the personnel in the game, what's run concepts and things
18:50like that. Like you in a perfect world you do as much of that as possible with the player tracking, but there also is a
18:55lot of work that goes into that. And so there's still some things like subjectively that are a little bit better.
19:01So there's a world though where it really moves 95% plus towards just like everyone using player tracking data.
19:08I wish they just made it all public. It it be so much more fun to do some of this stuff.
19:12>> 100%. Okay. Uh we can't have a conversation about play colors without bringing up Ben Johnson's name again. Uh Ryan, you posted that no
19:21NFL play caller this century has treated second and short like a free shot more aggressively than Ben Johnson. Among 68 play callers with 70 plus games since
19:291999, Ben Johnson ranks first in second one pass rate, first in second and two pass rate, first in second and three
19:36pass rate, basically. Uh one, when was this first on your radar?
19:40How did it get on your radar? And second, uh why is he so head and shoulders above everyone else? And like, why is this so
19:47important to his game-to-game success?
19:50>> Yeah, so I I think his when he first started really calling plays in 2022, um I have on like a week-to-week basis,
19:58I'm like really on top of all these league-wide metrics. Like as the coaches are worried, I'm I'm doing as much work
20:03as I can on like a Monday and Tuesday to help the team with the next game plan and self-scouting and stuff. And then I
20:08would try to spend the rest of the week trying to get ahead like, all right, what's something that's going on that's
20:13a little bit unique. And I remember back then just seeing like, okay, he was there's this guy Ben Johnson with Detroit. Like the expectations were
20:20pretty low. They were doing all these like tight end shifts and motions. And it was like standing out in some of my
20:25metrics. And I'm like, they were almost immediately like really good.
20:29And um you know, it was a little bit unclear at times like, is it just the personnel is really good? Like is are
20:34they just stacked on the offensive line?
20:36But then he did it again the next year.
20:38Then he did it again the next year.
20:39And you know, of course, you know, they as their team was succeeding, you they started playing in these these island night games. And they're running
20:46laterals and trick plays. It's And it's like it's really really impressive what he was doing. Um I thought when he was
20:53entering kind of like after 3 years as the play caller, I thought it was potentially the greatest head coach opportunity. Like if I was I there was
21:02half those teams in the league I would have potentially gotten rid of my head coach if Ben Johnson agreed. Now, you
21:06can't just do that cuz there's rules for hiring, but I he it was so unbelievable like looking at his his metrics in terms of what he had
21:15accomplished, how young he was. He's like a computer engineering major. Um and really he sort of captivated the whole league with what he was doing.
21:24And so I I tried to dig into different things that he was doing that was unique and you know this this idea that there's
21:30a lot of coaches that just look at second and short and they're like let's just go pick it up. Let's pick it up.
21:34Like Greg Roman I don't know if you guys saw that one, but Greg Roman had a stretch from middle of 2019 to his end
21:40of his Chargers career where every second and one to two it was with that were like not at the goal line.
21:46They had they had 135 runs and one pass.
21:49And like that's just literally what he was. I swear to god. And like legitimately so like we played him in the chart with the Chargers last year
21:56and it's actually it was actually the game that Tom Brady came up and was in the booth and like he's literally
22:00sitting next to me and I have like all these tables and stuff and I'd bring it up on the headset different times and
22:04like they get a second one to two and I like look over at my at my little chart and it's like here's
22:10the run thing and I'm like telling Pat Graham and Pete and like sure enough they run it. Like that's just what he
22:15does. And they're like people in the booth are like oh damn that's cool. Like how'd you know that? I'm like okay well
22:20it was a pretty good tendency.
22:21>> 100% of the time.
22:22>> Yeah. And the best part is the one time that they actually passed it was like an up-tempo play in the second quarter
22:28against the Patriots and they took a brutal sack. And I was like >> [laughter] >> You did never again.
22:32>> Should have ran it. Should have ran it.
22:33I'm done.
22:35But that'll be interesting with um you know cuz Greg ended up going joining back on with John Harbaugh and Nagy actually you know was a little bit more
22:43willing to throw in some of those situations, but this idea that even in like third and shorts and fourth and shorts like there seems to be like a
22:50wellness from Ben to try to rather than leaning into the sneak thing he's like I'm going to try to go for big plays as
22:55much as possible. And then as much of the first and second down stuff he's he's so 50/50 in everything. So like
23:03he's the most 50/50 guy on first and you know, on second and short, the most 50/50 guy on second and three to six,
23:09the most 50/50 guy on second and seven to 10. A lot of the analytics guys criticize him on the second and seven to
23:1510 runs, but I think there's actually like a master plan where essentially you can't game plan it going forward as opposed to like I think Steichen's a
23:22great coach, but like everyone in the league had caught on they were throwing every time on second and seven to 10 as
23:27the season went on and it's like, okay, do you start calling different defenses?
23:31Do you match with lighter personnel? Do you blitz, you know, call pass pressures or you know, do you line up in fronts
23:36because you know that they're not going to run the ball? Like there's there's a balance there where you can get too
23:40extreme.
23:41And I think that's part of what makes Ben Johnson's offense sustainable.
23:45And people have asked like are people going to catch on to your offense? And he just like laughs about it and I'm
23:49kind of with him in the sense that what are they going to figure out that you're 50/50? Like >> Yeah, then what?
23:54>> It's one thing if you're the Eagles and the team figures out how to stop the tush push and you're like, well, there
23:59goes 90% of our short yardage offense, but he there there is so much of what Ben does that everything looks exactly
24:05the same and then he has some kind of change up. And you know, I was talking to Pat Graham when we were playing them
24:10last year.
24:12And he's like, you don't even cuz I would give the coaches like a tendency sheets and he's like, you don't even
24:16really need to give me one this week because like I know it's just a wild card. He's like, the one thing I do know
24:21is like he's going to call some trick play or something early on this game.
24:24Like so we got to be ready for that stuff. So it's super impressive and um I would I would expect just
24:33when somebody is such an outperformer as a play caller for so many consecutive years, like you can't say it was a Jared
24:38Goff thing or it was the Detroit O-line, it was a Jahmyr Gibbs. No, like he's he's done it so many times that I think
24:45if you were like a fantasy football person, like you'd you'd feel a lot safer about your investments with a guy that almost certainly is going to have a
24:52way to sort of figure out how to get a good offense going, you know, even if they do suffer injuries or have to kind
24:57of adapt a little bit.
24:58>> It's kind of interesting to see the the league, um a lot of the the trends seem to be backing up what we've been doing
25:03in Madden for for two decades. Like the second and first stuff, the the fourth down decision-making and stuff. It just seems like
25:11we're in such a new place now that like finding some like younger quality control coach like does seem like where I would be like looking around just
25:18because it seems like we've like really flipped things like over even just for the the decade that you started till now, it seems like we've like almost
25:25done like a a big 180 here.
25:27>> There's been like an explosion in like the ease of uh accessing other teams' film or even college film. It used to be
25:34like a hassle and now more more of like the tech-savvy younger guys can quickly pull up like, "Hey, Louisville's doing this or Tulane's doing this." Or um this
25:42was super cool that, you know, let me let's find all the counter bluff reverses in the NFL. Like that used to
25:47be a nightmare to try to do and you couldn't even do it like unless you just manually start digging and now you can
25:52kind of get that stuff. And I think the guys that are tech-savvy or at least have some like savvier people helping them out with
25:58their sort of game planning and stuff have definitely have an advantage right now.
26:01>> I mean that this seems like a long time ago, but in the grand scheme of the league it's not 15 years ago. Ryan, I
26:07was had a cup of coffee with the Ram's scouting department when they were in St. Louis and even in 2011, you had to
26:13literally take VCR tapes and plug them in and watch, you know, the college prospects and then that's what the film was versus everything being in database
26:21that is sortable. So it's not surprising at all that in that last 15 years or ever since that was all digitized, um
26:29everything is just exponentially, you know, progressed so much faster. And one of those things I did want to bring up cuz
26:37we can kind of speed round this, but I know that quarterback sneaks have kind of become your obsession over, let's say, the last 10 years. You wrote that
26:44in 2016 there were less than 70 quarterback sneaks. Last season, there were 340 of them. And also, no team has ever been
26:54stopped on four straight sneaks on first and goal from the one-yard line.
26:59>> Yeah, so what I would say on that is, you know, I grew up in Massachusetts, and I, you know, I my memory, I was
27:05about 10 years old when the uh Patriots kind of dynasty began, and I went to a million games, and I followed
27:11it, you know, that was the that was the broadcast that you'd watch on 1:00 p.m.
27:14on on Sundays, and forever, nobody could ever explain to me why everyone is not just cop- copying New England. Like, they had a stretch
27:22for like 15 years where they had double the sneaks of anyone else.
27:26And so, like, I get to the uh Eagles and um you know, in particular with Pederson's first year, like, I was super grateful I
27:34kept my job. I was like retained from the previous staff, cuz I'd started a year before, and I was like really my attitude was
27:40like, I'm just going to, you know, do what I'm asked, like, lay low, like, the last thing I want to do is like just try
27:45to tell some new head coach like, "Hey, bro, like, we got to do this, whatever."
27:49But, as we developed a great relationship, and as I developed a really good relationship with Jeff Stoutland, the O-line coach, I spent a lot of time
27:57that following off-season after our first year. We ran two sneaks in 2016, and I'm like, you know, there was Doug Pederson's on the hot seat. There's
28:03like, you know, what the Philly media's like. If you go seven and nine, they're like, you're done. Like, so, I was like,
28:07"I'm not going down like this." I'm like, "This is such a bottleneck, and like, this is it Once you know the
28:13numbers and you've seen like the operation, like, it's like hard to watch a game or be part of a game and like see
28:19the team not doing it." So, we just really dug into all that very, very in-depth, and all the concerns about like quarterback getting hurt, uh you
28:27can only do it when it's under a yard, you can only do it, you can't do it if there's two guys in the A gaps. But, now
28:31people are like, "Wait a minute, we could just put the backup in." Or, "Wait a minute, we could just put a tight end
28:35in." And this last year you saw more backup quarterbacks, um you know, than or sorry, more non- QBs do takes sneaks, you know, than than
28:45ever before. I don't even know I was joking with Jason Kelce the other day like I don't even think you can call
28:49them sneaks anymore. Like there needs to be a new word because there's no surprise element in most of these.
28:55>> But um uh and and he is the official sneak champion. Like thank thankfully like once we had that data, he was like
29:02basically going to like strangle somebody if we didn't call a sneak. Like it's like so when the players want to do
29:08it, like that's just kind of takes care of itself. But we actually experimented cuz Geno had very few sneaks in college
29:15or sorry very over his career and people are like oh maybe it's not his body type. We were experimenting with Brock
29:20doing it and we we were he was taking snaps in camp and whatnot.
29:23Unfortunately, literally in that first game, Geno got hurt like his groin and it was sort of a lingering thing and Brock hurts his knee. And so like our
29:32first two sneak options, we ended up still doing you know, I don't know 10 or so on the year, but it kind of slowed
29:38our sort of plan on that. But you see some teams like the Seahawks, they're just like oh we're just going to
29:41literally put a tight end in there every single time. You know, I think I'm going to put it at about 75% chance that the
29:47Eagles at least experiment with some kind of non like quote unquote I I use the word rugby scrum cuz Pete Carroll said it and
29:56I thought it was hilarious cuz like that's literally what the play is. So he'd be like we're we can have a sneak
30:00play, but we're going to have rugby scrum as a separate play that we're going to experiment with. And some teams like we brought in like a legitimate uh
30:07rugby uh like a rugby coach like and we just like did like a zoom with him and asked him about the leverage and
30:13everything and we're like try to make up stuff on defense like can we push the guys on defense? Like I don't even know
30:17what you know what that would look like.
30:19>> And even running last year, I feel like the counterpunch for the Eagles on maybe four or five touchdowns for Dallas
30:24Goedert was to pitch it out in those situations cuz everyone was you know so clustered in the middle then it was
30:30leaving the free space to Dallas Goedert to get to the edge.
30:33>> Yeah, there there's there's like a if you think of the game theory like big picture like for the longest time sneaks
30:38were just so much better than everything else you probably could just keep doing it. But it it's we've really reached a
30:43point where particularly on like the fourth down plays that are not right on the goal line, like a mixed strategy is probably the
30:49best thing. Like the Mark Andrews like spin out that he had for the long touchdown and different like 30-40 yard gains. Like that really is the best way
30:57to not only you know, have the most of you know, explosiveness and effectiveness, but also to boost the sneaks because then
31:02these teams have to play they have to play it straight. There were some snaps last year. There was guys like laying on
31:07the ground pre-snap to try to stop like people were just making stuff up and people were then just still running the
31:13sneaks anyways and like there there is a point where like, okay, maybe this does not make any sense anymore. One thing I
31:19I'd say is like, you know, we were our team was just not good. Like everyone kind of knew that with the Raiders, but
31:25as things were playing out and like we had those injuries and stuff. Like I just went down this little wormhole and I'm like, who would be the best
31:33player on the team to do this if we were just going to go like with these you know, scrum touch push type things.
31:39And it just so happened that Max Crosby his like eerily similar frame to Josh Allen. They're both 6'4 and 7/8 and
31:46their their three cone times were within 1/100 of a second and Max is actually bigger. He's heavier and he's faster.
31:53And Max is like a really good athlete.
31:55Now Max also had like a significant health thing, but I like said it to Max at one point. He's like, bro, I'd get that every single
32:04time. Like I really think like there's no compelling reason that you have to say, oh, we're doing this with the tight end.
32:10Like there's some really dynamic big guys in the in the league that could be defenders, could be you know, some of
32:16the I mean like I would if I'm the Rams, like you know, if say Puka Nacua is healthy, like that's a dynamic player
32:23that has some strength to him. Like is there a world where you can >> is the QB sneak role. Let's let's see
32:27what happens, man.
32:28>> I actually I was digging. So like this stat that we had, there's no teams ever been stopped on four consecutive sneaks
32:33on a set of downs. In the the there's never been three consecutive. And I was digging through some college data, there
32:39actually is like has been like one or two times that a team has been stopped on three straight.
32:44But as I was looking through it, I found a snap of Southern University, and I don't even know if I can like post this
32:50online cuz there's like all these college film rules and stuff. Southern University put a guy in that was like 400 lb as a pusher. He is the He
32:58legitimately looked like the largest human being I've ever seen in my life, and he just completely just worth the entire It's It's
33:06completely hilarious, but I also like I've I mentioned it on this thing that I'm doing with Nick Underhill for our little show that we're just doing that's
33:13kind of like innovative schematic strategies and whatnot that they were hitting on. I actually think that if I was optimizing this and I still wanted
33:21to do the tush pushes, I would actually take it either a tight end or offensive lineman and take him in fast motion, say
33:285 to 7 yd off the line of scrimmage, and towards the tackle box, and then on the snap, like he immediately just gears up,
33:35and then he's like your second surge player. So, if you think about Trent Williams when he just was obliterating people on those kickouts, like but
33:43totally experimental, would not do that.
33:45>> to the ball carrier. Yeah, the ball carrier is like, "I hate that idea."
33:48>> So, well, so like listen to this, so like I'm I'm going to put my Nostradamus projection is that I'm going
33:54to say that I think somebody is going to do this this running start thing, and either it's going to be an injury, or
34:00it's going to be so effective that the league's going to ban it after the season.
34:04>> Like >> Cuz they were close to banning the pushing 2 years ago, and then the Eagles just didn't have as good of a year this
34:10last year, but even if you took six games in the last season and and pulled the media, is the tush push getting banned? It probably would
34:18have gotten 95% yes, it's getting banned, and it was because when they when when the when the Eagles played the Chiefs, it
34:24was like this incredibly embarrassing thing where guys were jumping early, then there was another one like the Giants ripped the ball out, and they
34:30blew it dead early because it was like they couldn't even tell the play was still going on and there was way too
34:34many instances where it really became hard to officiate. Um but I think if the Eagles say had like beat the 49ers in the playoffs and like the game
34:43ended with them just like smashing forward on like I think the thing really honestly probably would have got brought up again in terms like a potential ban.
34:50And I and I could see uh there there's there's clearly it was like two votes away from getting banned.
34:56I I could see there's like enough annoyance that that could be a end up being a narrative again.
35:00>> Ryan, you've said it all. This was electric. You also mentioned that you are doing a show with Nick Underhill.
35:05You all can search for it. It's in the description down below. It's uh Paganetti and Underhill. Uh we love Nick. He's
35:12absolutely one of the best in the biz at what he does uh at at covering the Saints at such a high level and uh also
35:19is out there trying to teach people football along with you. So I think it's an amazing uh collaboration between two uh
35:27people that again make not just us but everyone else smarter with the game. So Ryan, appreciate it. Uh everyone go follow Ryan on Twitter and
35:37you know, push him a little bit more.
35:39Push push him a little bit more to uh continue posting uh some some of this information that's behind the curtain and peeking through
35:45keyholes of uh NFL franchises cuz Ryan, we do we really do appreciate it.
35:50>> I I appreciate you guys having me and I'll say um any fans that if you guys got a crazy idea,
35:56just tag me somewhere on Twitter and and and I'll start digging on it and you know, you never know. I I got a message,
36:01you know, yesterday that you know, one of the head coaches had basically printed out one of my tweets and asked an analyst to like sort of duplicate it
36:08for their own team. So like the the the the world of media is seen by a lot of these guys. Like there's some of these
36:14head coaches are literally following They might be following your accounts or following my accounts. Some of them have burners. Like they they're keeping an
36:19eye on this stuff and so um you know, for fans like the there there are cases you bring up something like it and it
36:26can literally have a tangible impact on like impacting your favorite team and like you might notice some tendency or something that the honestly the teams on
36:33team, you know, hadn't figured out themselves. So, it's a awesome time.
36:37Like I really appreciate you guys having me and you know, I'm excited to see kind of follow a little bit more of the
36:42fantasy space this year.
36:43>> Love that. All right, everyone. We're back with two more shows this week.
36:47That's yes, four shows per week at least until the season kicks off. So, we'll see you on the next one.
