0:00Searching for some fantasy takeaways
0:02with NFL director of analytics Ryan
0:04Paganetti. [music]
0:05This is Fantasy Football Daily with
0:07Brett and Scott. Let's dive right in.
0:18>> Ryan, how are you, sir?
0:19>> I am uh I'm doing great. You know, I'm
0:21I'm finally excited that there's real
0:23games and I don't have to talk about
0:24rain pants as much anymore. [laughter]
0:26No, a couple people were tagging me that
0:29there was like nearly a rain pants game
0:31with the the um the the the Bears were
0:34playing and there was like a significant
0:37downpour before the game and people were
0:39kind of tipping me off. They're like,
0:40"All right, we're going to have somebody
0:41looking for rain pants." But um but
0:43yeah, we can start talking about real
0:44players and, you know, preseason usage
0:46and, you know, different trends and
0:48whatnot. I'm excited about that.
0:51>> Well, the the first thing I wanted to
0:53ask you, I wanted to ask you about
0:54Ashton Genty. So, I I had you on this
0:57show and I kind of gave you grief for
0:59being,
1:01you know, director of analytics with the
1:03Las Vegas Raiders and in a year that
1:06they took a running back top 10 where
1:08that that's typically viewed as like a
1:11cardinal sin in the analytics community
1:13where, you know, hashtag running backs
1:15don't matter was a a major trend. Even
1:17though I might not entirely agree with
1:20it, I know there's certainly some truth
1:22to that. you gave a take. We ended up
1:24scrubbing it from the episode and then
1:27on on our my last episode I I was
1:30talking about how I talked to you and
1:33you kind of spooked me a little bit and
1:36I moved Ash and Genty down in my
1:38rankings. I wouldn't say why. Uh just
1:40that you kind of spooked me and so I'm
1:42wondering if there's anything you could
1:43say here on this that we can keep in the
1:47episode and and not take out.
1:49>> So you if you have to be careful, I get
1:51it. But
1:52>> yeah, so what I'd say is, so I I got
1:55offered this job to uh to report
1:58directly for Pete as an actual assistant
2:00coach. And um my kind of role there was
2:06very very heavily coaching analytics and
2:09game management based. And um they had
2:13an infrastructure there of people that
2:15were I I got there March till about a
2:17month before the draft, maybe a month
2:18and a half. And um you know I offered to
2:22kind of help these guys out in terms of
2:25because I I had just been director of
2:26football analytics for the Jaguars and
2:30um they kind of had an an infrastructure
2:32already set up there for the front
2:34office kind of analytics I guess you
2:36could say and um this is no this is no
2:39disrespect to anybody there but um I was
2:43a little bit behind the eightball in the
2:45sense that you know I I came in a little
2:48bit after Pete had already started. and
2:50there was about a million projects to
2:51deal with regarding, you know, coaching
2:53related topics and whatnot. So, um, my
2:57role really there was like serve in a
3:00sort of supplementary role in terms of
3:03some of the draft stuff. Now, I will say
3:06um, to me, you can't be like a real
3:10analytics person and actually advocate
3:12for a running back in the top 10. And
3:15like yes,
3:17occasionally it works out. Okay. Um I
3:20totally come from the world of offensive
3:23line is light years more important. And
3:27um you know I I know for example I know
3:30Jeff Stelton very well. My brother's run
3:32game coordinator in the NFL. And um you
3:34know, I've been part of a team that won
3:35the Super Bowl and we we were basically
3:39using very marginal players at times at
3:41running back, but when the line was
3:44really good, it didn't matter. And so,
3:46like, my personal take is that I would
3:48much rather, you know, like a top 10
3:51offensive line and a and a just practice
3:54a list of practice squad running backs.
3:56And I actually think that would be more
3:57fun than then as opposed to having like
3:59the 25th best offensive line and the,
4:02you know, a top 10 running back from a
4:05macro perspective. Yes, the Raiders
4:08offensive line was a disaster and I
4:11would not want to be any running back
4:12behind that line last year, but they're
4:16also, you know, there's been some
4:17different kind of
4:20viewpoints on that that it may not have
4:22been as simple as strictly the offensive
4:25line being an issue. And I'm not, trust
4:27me, I'm not discounting that. Like I, it
4:29was painful to be a part of that at
4:31times. Um but uh you know some of the
4:34metrics it was it was as about as bad as
4:36you could get from a rush offense. And
4:38this is coming from some people in terms
4:40of Pete and Chip that have been part of
4:42elite run offenses. Like they know how
4:44to scheme up a good offense. And to give
4:46you a perspective um you know I think
4:48there was probably seven times that Chip
4:51had the number one rush yard rush yards
4:54or yards per carry offense in college.
4:56And then his first year in the league
4:58with Philly, they were the number one
5:00yards per carry and rush yards offense.
5:03Um, and he did it I think at UCLA in say
5:0622 or so, maybe 21 with DTR and
5:09Charbanet. Like they were number one in
5:11yards per carry by like two standard
5:14deviations. And so he's a very creative
5:16scheme guy. We were we tried to
5:18accommodate Genty kind of being more of
5:20a downhill underenter type player. Um be
5:23and in terms of like that sort of
5:25fitting his skill set a little bit and
5:29um we actually the fourth game of the
5:32year we had a we really had a great
5:33rushing game against the Bears and a few
5:36plays before the end of the game Colton
5:38Miller had an injury. He ended up going
5:41out for the season. He was by far our
5:42best offensive lineman and we really
5:44were not the roster was not set up in a
5:46way that there was a a player to step in
5:48at tackle that could very easily
5:51no one was going to replace it but to at
5:53least like be manageable there. Um, and
5:57you know, I think at that time in that
5:58fourth week, we actually it was the
6:00highest rushing output of any team
6:03go like through four games and then
6:06after that it was just like a car
6:08accident in terms of like you know we
6:09really really struggled. The division
6:11was was pretty talented too. Um, I I
6:14think at the end of the day, um,
6:18like whenever something goes wrong in
6:20the NFL, just to sum up this viewpoint,
6:22like it's it's never as simple as just
6:26point the finger at one
6:28variable and like a lot of times there's
6:30more nuance like what are the what's the
6:32scheme? What's the what are the
6:33techniques being used? Is how is the
6:34running back reading it? You know, what
6:36um is are they just playing a lot of
6:38really talented defenses? And I guess my
6:41position is that
6:44there was a little bit more than
6:46strictly the offensive line that sort of
6:48explained that. And if you look at some
6:49of the metrics like expected rushing
6:50yards and whatnot, that attempts to kind
6:52of account for that a little bit. I
6:54think there's some questions there. And
6:56um you know I I I think it's uh I know I
7:00I especially being on social media like
7:02pretty extensively over the last month
7:04like you see how passionate the fans are
7:06and they there's almost like they just
7:08find a lightning rod to sort of attack
7:10and weaponize and clearly that the the
7:13whether it was coaching or offensive
7:15line like that those were the those were
7:17the topics for the Raiders last year and
7:19I'm not I'm not absolving anybody from
7:22any blame but that's kind of my position
7:24on that And
7:26just from just from like a summary
7:29standpoint, you see Brock Bowers at
7:31practice with the with the Raiders and
7:33you think like there's some things here
7:36where this guy might be a first bout
7:37Hall of Famer and I wasn't necessar that
7:40may have been the only player, you know,
7:42on that offense that I was seeing that
7:43from. And um that's kind of just I guess
7:46my summary of that topic.
7:48>> Yeah. Let me bring this back to fantasy.
7:50So this is, you know, partly what you've
7:52told me over the phone. Some of the
7:54other things I think we can keep under
7:55wraps, but I this this really kind of
7:58gels with how I've kind of viewed Genty
8:02from the start, which was, you know,
8:04obviously there's Well, first of all, it
8:06was like legitimately one of the worst
8:08rookie seasons ever by a running back.
8:11He Well, it was one of the worst EPA per
8:14runs we've seen in decades uh for the
8:16the unit as a whole. Um he had 266
8:20carries and 55 receptions. Obviously,
8:23volume is the most important thing with
8:25the running back position for fantasy,
8:27but like on that volume, it was one of
8:30the worst seasons ever. That's been done
8:3279 times in NFL history. Of those 79
8:35running back seasons, Jy's 2025 was the
8:39only one with fewer than 15 fantasy
8:40points per game. He was all the way down
8:42at 14.4.
8:44Um, I think there's more to it than the
8:47offensive line. And even if he wanted to
8:49blame the offensive line, it's not like
8:50this offensive line looks much better.
8:53And then it's the prospect. It's Aston
8:54Genty, the prospect. You know, he 2024
8:58he gained 2,601
9:00rushing yards. It was the second most in
9:03FBS history behind only Barry Sanders
9:06legendary 1988 season, but it came in
9:09the Mountain West. And so, you know,
9:11when I when I listed my comps for Genty,
9:15one of the top ones was Devin Singleary,
9:17who in the C USA had 56 touchdowns over
9:22his last two years. And that was
9:24something I really found with doing my
9:27analytics pro prospect modeling was
9:30like, it's not so much that you need to,
9:32you know, um, devalue production coming
9:36outside of the power conferences. It's
9:38really just that it just like massively
9:40raises your risk of busting. And so I
9:44think that's a real Yeah. Like sure he
9:47he also had the best and most missed
9:50tackles in PFF college history, but it's
9:53also like, you know, Mountain West
9:55defenders are missing tackles a lot more
9:57often than Alabama defenders, right? And
10:00so you have to factor that in as well.
10:03And so what we're left with is sure he
10:05saw a ton of volume, but he wasn't all
10:07that great with it. And uh and yes,
10:11certainly I have some concerns for a guy
10:14who is going like mid to late round one
10:18just about everywhere after like
10:20borderline Trent Richardsonesque
10:23rookie season. Um and so yeah, I I ended
10:26up moving him down two spots in my
10:28rankings. We'll see if that burns me.
10:30Certainly, I'm a big Clint Kubak
10:32believer. I think you are too, Ryan. Uh,
10:35and he has shown over the years uh, an
10:37ability to elevate the offensive line.
10:40Uh, New Orleans had a bottom three
10:42offensive line on paper. Seattle had a
10:44bottom three offensive line on paper
10:46last year, but in both instances, they
10:48fiddle finished middle of the pack in
10:50yards before contact per attempt. I
10:52wanted to get a plug in for the site.
10:54And so, I'll just I'll just reiterate
10:57what you said on Twitter a couple of
10:59weeks ago, Ryan. You said fantasy points
11:01data, which you're using to cook up some
11:03of these super dank stats and awesome
11:06tweets, uh, is better than the data
11:10provider that NFL teams paid six figures
11:12for. And this is fantasy points data you
11:15can get with a $200 a year subscription.
11:18Uh, any comments on that, Ryan? Yeah,
11:21I'd say this is like, you know, there's
11:24there's some in the league, maybe more
11:27than some, that are really turned off by
11:30the these other providers that attempt
11:33to sort of grade the tape subjectively.
11:36And um there's people that just wildly
11:40wildly disagree with what those the
11:42conclusions that are reached and the
11:44idea. And there's players that hate it.
11:45a lot of the players really hate it when
11:47they're playing on Sunday Night Football
11:48and it says that they're 67th of 88
11:50players when they're actually playing
11:52great. And um I think that that this
11:56other you know company that everyone
11:58kind of is familiar with like they they
12:01were very dismissive at concerns on the
12:03team side. Um you know whether it was in
12:05the quality of the data or like how are
12:08they classifying things like things you
12:09know and and I think um the players were
12:12you know relatively hostile about you
12:14know some of the grading methodologies.
12:16Coaches were very hostile. You know,
12:18there was times where people,
12:21you know, from this company came in and
12:23attempted to explain their grading to
12:24coaches and the coaches like left the
12:26meeting when I was part of teams and
12:28they say, I don't want to use any of
12:30their stuff like and it actually like it
12:32hurt my ability to do my job because
12:34like in in many cases like the objective
12:36data is fine like if it's like hey is it
12:38what is the offensive personnel group
12:40and whatnot but um like there's also
12:44cases where like I I you know I'm
12:45showing an offensive coordinator I'm
12:47like Hey, this uh this team is really
12:49poor against duo and they're like,
12:51"Okay, well, can you get me a cut up
12:52using that classification?" And I give
12:55them a cutup and then they call me into
12:56their office and they're like three of
12:58the first seven plays are not duo. And
13:01then it's like it's almost like
13:02embarrassing from my standpoint. So like
13:04I would use the data at times as like a
13:07initial sort of sweep and then I'd have
13:10to manually go through it and clean it
13:12up and then so like when I've used some
13:13of your guys data it it totally aligns
13:16with what like coaches actually classify
13:19some of these concepts for example with
13:21and I think that that
13:24it's it's a much more reasonable you
13:27know people don't like like like it's
13:29it's a little bit unfair but like when
13:31there's some questions regarding the
13:32data
13:33it can turn into like a zero versus 100
13:36binary thing where people just shut
13:37everything off. So, um, but I think that
13:40that just like I had no bias. There was
13:43no reason why I would particularly use
13:46like your guys data. I simply just was
13:48intrigued by the idea of another vendor
13:50sort of competing in a world where there
13:52was like kind of a monopoly. And you
13:55guys obviously have built like a
13:56significant market share in like sort of
13:58the consumer market, but it's it's been
14:00entirely like merit-based versus like
14:03this other group is essentially leaned
14:06on having just like market power and
14:09having no one to really compete with.
14:11And then, you know, I mean, there's
14:12there's it's widely been reported that
14:14there's been like issues, there's been
14:16sales and, you know, whatnot and like,
14:17you know, different moving parts and
14:19whatnot, you know, people losing jobs
14:20and things like that. But I'm the I'm
14:22just a believer in meritocracy and like
14:24if there was another company that was
14:26called uh like
14:29not fantasy points and they and their
14:30data was better than your guys like I I
14:32might you know point that out too but
14:34like I'm just I'm just from what I have
14:36experience like the stuff is awesome and
14:38it's helped me tremendously and like
14:40I'll take a look at your guys data and
14:42I'll I'll kind of cross-check it with
14:43the film that I'm looking at and like
14:45it's it's really excellent and it's it's
14:47it's really actionable and and I see
14:49what you guys are doing on on social
14:51media all the time. like you guys are
14:52turnurning out so much content that
14:55um it's really just lapping everybody
14:57that that I you know else that I see and
14:59you know you're seeing other companies
15:01basically just give up on the media part
15:02of things because they I would argue
15:04that they almost just can't compete with
15:05it because there's a lot of talent with
15:06what you guys are doing and um yeah I'd
15:10say that uh I my attitude on all this
15:14stuff is like if you want to get coaches
15:15for example to like change their
15:17behavior like your analysis has to be
15:21topnotch.
15:22And it's the most embarrassing because
15:24it's literally happened to me. The most
15:25embarrassing thing ever to like say,
15:28"Hey, we should do XYZ because of this
15:31and then here's the plays and oh, just
15:33kidding." Like that that was incorrectly
15:36classified and and then it's like, you
15:37know, it's sort of a a turnoff. So like
15:39I I literally would spend hours and
15:41hours a week cleaning up data like
15:43manually or having interns clean up data
15:45at times which I would prefer not to do
15:47that because it's like a significant
15:50life inconvenience to have to do that.
15:52So anyway like I I've just really
15:53appreciated what you guys have done. Um
15:55and uh you know I I there's there I mean
15:59it's the I didn't even know Scott. The
16:00only reason that like I ever met Scott
16:02was because I just started seeing his
16:04stats pop up on on Twitter where like
16:07he'd have points about certain players
16:08and I'm like, "Oh god, like we we better
16:10like look into this like this separation
16:12stat or XYZ because we didn't even have
16:14it." And then there would be things that
16:16were like a lot of coaches really and
16:18like personnel people, they like lists
16:19and Scott's a big list guy. So, like
16:22when the list is terrible and like
16:24you're about to like draft a player and
16:26guarantee him tens of millions of
16:27dollars or like you're about to sign a
16:28guy in free agency and there's a list
16:30out there that shows like eight of nine
16:32guys being like total bust like you you
16:35you have to in this era like you have to
16:38be on top of all that stuff. And you
16:39know I think a great example is the
16:41running back from the Broncos. You know
16:43what's it what is it Coleman?
16:45>> Jonah Coleman. Yeah.
16:46>> Yeah. And like I I didn't follow the
16:48draft too closely this year. I had some
16:50other things going on, but you know, you
16:51guys kind of picked up on him being sort
16:53of a sleeper and he's, you know, he's
16:55working with the ones. They're pulling
16:56him after the first quarter. He had a he
16:58had a sick run on in week one. I know
17:00it's just preseason, but he had one of
17:01the more impressive runs of the whole,
17:03you know, week. And then they were
17:04basically saying Shawn Peyton pulled him
17:05out. He's like, "All right, I've seen
17:06enough." Which is what the which is what
17:08the Cardinals should have done after,
17:10you know, a couple carries of Jeremiah
17:12Love. But, you know, it's super
17:13unfortunate how that played out. But um
17:16I think that just kind of goes to show
17:17you that like the people that are really
17:19digging into the data and it's high
17:21quality data and high quality like
17:22talent analyzing the data like you can
17:24sort of be ahead of the game whether
17:26it's in fantasy or even in the you know
17:28whether it's it's in like real football
17:29in the draft.
17:31>> Dude, thank you for your time. It's been
17:32a pleasure getting getting to talk to
17:34you. Also, I do owe you some things. So,
17:36I'll make sure you get that off camera
17:38here. I'll get you a delivery of goods.
17:40But, uh yeah, we just want to say thank
17:42you for coming on. And uh listeners,
17:44please go out to fantasypoints.com,
17:46check out the new website, check out the
17:48new front office tool. It is an
17:49industrychanging tool for your fantasy
17:51leagues. And with that, we will be back
17:53next time.
18:00>> [music]