0:00Welcome to The Athletic Football Show brought to you by the US Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card.
0:05I'm Robert Mays. Today it's the Week 5 Preview.
0:07Two games of the week, we hit Rams, Bills and Niner Seahawks.
0:10Some bangers of headliner games in Week 5. Dug into one thing from a couple other games, chat a little bit about
0:17the Eagles season and where that is headed. A little bit of Lane Johnson celebration, whole bunch of stuff on the Week 5 Preview today.
0:23Let's get to it with me, Derrik and Dave.
0:26Right now. It's the Week 5 Preview. A lot of good stuff to dig into today.
0:30We've got two games of the week, got a couple other newsy bits, chat a little bit about the Eagles, a little
0:36bit about what's happening with the Broncos play calling situation.
0:39A lot of stuff to chew on today. It's been a wild week for unexpected news.
0:44I mean, in mid-season news, there's been a lot of bangers over the last 48 hours or so.
0:48Does Sean Payton taking back play calling count as surprising news?
0:52Let's call it notable. Okay, there we go. Let's call it notable news.
0:55Stuff that the type of news you don't always get heading into Week 5.
0:59That's how I'll frame it. Is that better? Yeah, I think that that's a little bit more fitting.
1:04Two huge news items. The other one, and we'll talk about it, Lane Johnson retiring.
1:08One is kind of, even knowing Lane said this was going to be his last year, you weren't ready for it to happen.
1:14Oh, no, of course not. So, shocking, and then you hear the Payton news, and you're like, well, yeah, okay.
1:20Like, we knew, we had an idea that that might be coming.
1:23Let's dig into our first game of the week here.
1:2649ers at Seahawks. Really looking forward to this one.
1:28It doesn't take a lot of explanation as to why this is the game of the week.
1:33I think right now you can make a pretty solid argument that the Niners have been the best team in the NFL over the first four weeks.
1:41When you look at a multi-year period and you take everything into account, still think you would probably be in the right
1:47to say that the Seahawks are the best team in the NFL.
1:50Just with everything that we know and banking last year combined with this year.
1:54And so it doesn't take a lot to sell me on this one.
1:57And with the way it went last year, too, I'm so excited for the renewal of this.
2:02Where, you know, I mean, the 49ers won that great game in the season opener.
2:06And they've been up until last year had been the more consistently successful team.
2:10And by the end of the year, you were like, oh, man, Mike McDonald's got Kyle Shanahan's number, doesn't he?
2:16And so to see what this looks like with the Niners rolling and, you know, some of their new pieces contributing, I was going to say healthy.
2:23Not that's not really still a thing, but maybe healthier looking than we hoped.
2:27Either way, I'm I'm excited for the renewal of this one.
2:30I think that's a good place to start. The idea that for the most part, I mean, Mike Mike McDonald has had
2:36Kyle Shanahan's number in a way that very few defensive coaches do.
2:39And so, Derek, I think the entry point I'm interested in here is, is there a reason to think that this is
2:45going to look different for the Niners offense than it did over the final two matchups from last year where they really got dominated by Seattle?
2:52Seattle controlled those games on that side of the ball.
2:55I think it can be a little bit better.
2:58You know, I think the offensive line is playing better right now than it had last year.
3:02You have Mike Evans, who does not feel 100 percent healthy, but still feels like a nice middle of the field presence,
3:08which we can talk about in a little bit.
3:11I still think the way that the Seahawks play defense is perfectly suited to not let the 49ers do what they want
3:17to do, because the 49ers rushing offense is all about how can we create space in the sea gap, whether that's with motions or they're shifting to it.
3:25They're flipping formations, whatever they're going to do. How do we get that to pop?
3:29It's really hard to do that against the Seahawks edge rusher or edge guys, whether it's to Marcus Lawrence, Chena Nwosu, some
3:35of the run tools they use where they're blitzing, you know, with their spoon off the edge or M and warrior, whatever it's going to be.
3:42And so I think they are just a perfect matchup to shut that down right now, especially, you know, juice check is
3:48not going to play in this game like he's out for a while now.
3:52I think that they're going to have to retool their offense a little bit.
3:56And so in this week particular, I think that stuff.
3:59And then the other element of it, this is a Seahawks defense.
4:02We talked about it, especially all the time when they play the Rams, those middle of the field, 11 to 20 yard throws over the middle.
4:09You have to be able to challenge those windows and you have to have the arm to fit them.
4:14Purdy will throw them whether or not he consistently has the arm talent to fit them in there against Ernest Jones, the
4:20way that some of these corners and safeties are playing.
4:23That I think is where we get a little bit trickier as compared to obviously a guy like what Matthew Stafford can do at his best.
4:30Going back and rewatching the Niners Broncos game, one of the first runs they had, it might have been the actual first run they had in the game.
4:38They have Kittle going on that little banana motion.
4:40He's leading up on Q Robinson and he gets actual movement on Q Robinson on the edge where he displaces him on that play.
4:47Comparing the edges for the Broncos and the way that those guys are built compared to the way the edges for the Seahawks are built.
4:54It's just a very clear example as to why the way the Niners run the ball is just a little bit harder
5:00to do against a team that is built literally and figuratively like the Seahawks defense is built.
5:05I do think that's what makes this so exciting.
5:07And it feels like a real rubber meets the road matchup for what the 49ers have been.
5:12It's worth saying right here that Kyle Juszczyk's not going to play in this game.
5:16He's out. He's out for like multiple weeks. So he hasn't missed a game for them since 2022.
5:21And he's obviously between the motion and his blocking ability.
5:24He's such a big part of what they do.
5:26It sucks that it won't be the perfect idea of how they want to do this.
5:31But rewatching the Niners, especially against Denver, because, yeah, they're smaller on the edge.
5:34But like Zach Allen is in the middle of that thing.
5:37Like this is still it's a tougher front than Miami and Arizona.
5:41And they did not move them around in the way that they've done to other teams so far this year.
5:46They didn't. But I have like I'm I'm really encouraged by what I've seen from the rest of the 49ers offensive line.
5:52Obviously, we know Trent Williams. But Connor Colby and Dominic Pune have been like they're out to a fantastic start to this season.
5:59And even if it didn't look great against Denver as past protectors and in the running game, I thought it was not consistent.
6:05But they were getting movement and showing flashes and looking more like pieces to be excited about rather than just Trent Williams and the four guys.
6:12I think you've just felt a different level of physicality from the interior for the Niners this year than we would become accustomed to.
6:19I mean, when we think about the Niners, it's been a lot of undersized guys over the years, zone blocking team.
6:25And I think that, you know, Pune is a bigger bodied guy.
6:28And even Colby is like 310, 315. And you go back and from the start of the season against the Rams, like
6:34their ability to move people just has felt a little bit different this year, Derek, than I think we typically ascribe to
6:40the Niners running game and specifically the Niners running game from last year.
6:44And I do think because of that, you're seeing like when they get to some of their counter stuff or some of
6:50their, you know, gap stuff, whatever it's going to be.
6:52It's been really good. How you define it is probably up to you.
6:56It's like it's weird enough that it kind of falls between a couple of different concepts.
7:00It's all really weird in terms of who's pulling where, who is fitting into where, even where they're aligning the backs.
7:06Like on the Debo Samuel play, he's in like under center offset, like it's 1932.
7:10And I'm like, all right, man, if that's what you want to do, like obviously Shanahan is really interesting with that stuff.
7:16So their run game is varied, but their bread and butter is still the zone stuff.
7:21And so I, and now I wonder like I, if Juszczyk was playing, I would have been like, man, this is the
7:27game to run counter power, all that stuff like 12 times.
7:30But without him, I do think that that's probably going to be a little bit trickier.
7:34We talked about it on the, on the hangover.
7:37Some of the only stuff that was working for the chargers last week is when they were willing to get in 21
7:43personnel and just run the ball downhill at Seattle.
7:45And so now not having a fullback and being able to do that, I looked up some of the numbers just because I was curious.
7:52The Niners have been in 21 personnel on 41% of their plays so far this season.
7:57So that they have lived in 21 for most of the year.
8:00They have a 51% rushing success rate out of 21 personnel.
8:03They're averaging 0.12 EPA per carry. They only have 17 carries all year out of 12.
8:07And that is my assumption. That's probably what we'll see a shift to where now as the move piece, Kittle's just going
8:13to do a little bit more of that stuff than he might in a given week as more of like an inline blocker.
8:20He already does some of it. But now I think a lot of that Jusek role where he's just consistently moving around.
8:26What did Jusek say after week one? It's like, I got my cardio in after this one.
8:30I think George Kittle, that could be one of the weeks where he's really getting his cardio in.
8:35And I'm looking forward to it. And I mean, how they decide to do that and how they decide to pivot without
8:41Jusek, I think you're probably right about that. What that looks like is interesting.
8:45But again, I just, these young guards have looked really impressive to me.
8:49And now it's Leonard Williams and Byron Murphy. And I assume Leonard Williams is going to play.
8:54I think Mike McDonald said he was optimistic. He had an ankle injury coming out of the Chargers game, but it sounds like they expect him to play.
9:01He was limited on Wednesday. It sounds like he's probably going to play.
9:05The only guy, the only like main piece for the Seahawks that did not practice on Wednesday was JSN just because he was getting rest.
9:12Looking at the Niners injury report every single week is hilarious.
9:15Obviously, there are a bunch of guys that are actually hurt.
9:18But then you have several veterans that just don't practice once a week.
9:21Trent Williams, not injury related, resting player. Christian McCaffrey, not injury related, resting player.
9:25Dre Greenlaw, not injury related, resting player. They're correct approach.
9:28But this team, it's always an adventure. Every single time you look up who's playing and who's not.
9:33You got to be careful with the substation, man.
9:35Don't take any risks you don't need to. Speaking of injuries in the substation, one of the things we thought might feel
9:41different about the Niners offense this year and really kind of contrasting what it felt like in those Seahawks games in the playoffs was, okay.
9:48Now we have a big body vertical X receiver where we can potentially attack teams down the field outside the numbers in
9:54a way we just couldn't at the end of the year.
9:57And when you look at the way that Seattle was playing the Niners in those two games, zero respect for their ability to attack that one specific area.
10:05We thought that bringing Mike Evans in might give them just a little bit more when it came to that specific thing.
10:11Can you tag down the field outside the numbers a little bit more often?
10:15Mike Evans has been really productive for the Niners this year, Derek, but he hasn't really done that.
10:20Like the only, I think he has three catches of at least 20 plus air yards this year.
10:25Five targets. One of them was a goal ball against the Dolphins that he caught for a touchdown.
10:30The other two were, one was a crosser that drifted a little bit off field because Purdy was extending a little bit.
10:36And one was like a deep wrap router dig over the middle of the field.
10:40And so that hasn't really been his role, even if Mike Evans has been a really important piece for why the Niners offense has felt how it feels.
10:48And so I'm wondering, is this the week where do we get one of those plays where Mike Evans is challenging a Josh Jobe outside the numbers?
10:55Because if you're trying to create the formula for how you can beat the Seahawks defense in any given game, anecdotally, it
11:01feels like every single one of those games involves at least one.
11:05One on one outside the numbers deep shot to one of these receivers this year, they lost one game.
11:10It was to Washington. Terry McCormick had one deep ball outside the numbers touchdown on a goal ball.
11:15And so if you're going to beat them, it feels like you need one or two of these.
11:20The Rams had plenty of them last year. Is this the game where we see that version and that style of impact
11:26from Mike Evans in a way that they really haven't had to tap into so far this year?
11:31I mean, you have to because even as well as the 49ers are playing right now, you're never going to be efficient
11:37enough on a down to down basis to score 25, 30 points on a defense like this.
11:42And so you do have to generate those. It's you know, we kind of joked about it, but Mike Evans has really
11:48just been super Juwan Jennings for the most part.
11:50And that's been really good for them. But when we came into the season, I thought like, OK, maybe they are going
11:56to try to be a little bit more vertical, but it's not really what they're doing.
12:01And against Seattle, it really is a lot of the way that they play their coverage, whether it's in some of their coverage six stuff or the quarters.
12:08If you're playing like three by one, they will have that backside safety go and poach the front side because they want
12:14to take away the crossers, especially against a team like this who likes to run a lot of that stuff.
12:20Well, if you can get Mike Evans isolated one on one on the backside, you can get some of those posts, go
12:26balls, really deep stop routes like stuff like that.
12:28They're probably going to have to tap into that more than I think they would like to against other teams.
12:34Like I do think that that's a world that they don't love to live in because they're so two by two.
12:40But I think you probably have to do it a little bit this week.
12:44And he did talk about those deep stop routes.
12:46They have used him on a couple of those.
12:48And that's that's something where we might see a little bit of that, where he's just going to push vertical.
12:54He's turning around at 17 to 15 yards. Can you hit a couple of those in this game where you didn't really have somebody again?
13:01He's super Jawan Jennings. You don't feel good about Jawan Jennings running those deep stop routes against the Seahawks in a way you might with Mike Evans.
13:08I heard you guys talking about this on the hangover, too, for what the expectation was.
13:13I think Nehemiah Pritchett has been awesome for the Seahawks.
13:15I still think you should try to win there, you know, same.
13:19And honestly, I really like Josh Jobe as a player, too.
13:22He he can be gotten. And like that is a place where I think you at least need to try.
13:27I don't even want to say the word exploit as if the Seahawks have this terrible weakness.
13:32But like is a good word. You have to at least try it.
13:36You have to at least show that you're capable of doing this in a way that you weren't in the back half of last season.
13:42Get to the other side of the ball. The Niners defense is just a unit we haven't really talked much about.
13:48We spent more time focusing on their offense last week against the Broncos.
13:52Derek, just going back and watching what the Niners defense has been so far this year.
13:56They've been a top five unit based on any number that you're looking at.
14:00EPA per play, DVOA, all of that stuff. What have your early impressions been?
14:04And how would you characterize what this defense has looked like with Raheem Morris as the coordinator?
14:09I think in the back end, it's not all that different.
14:12There are still a lot of cover three. It's a lot of single high, all that sort of stuff.
14:17But the front is just so much more varied in so many different ways.
14:21Like even just from the way that they are aligning, like they really like their third linebacker, Jaden Duggar.
14:26And we can talk about how much they've been playing base.
14:29But they've been putting him on the field as that like on the ball sort of guy who is like a pseudo edge player.
14:36The way that we've talked about Quay Walker being used for the Raiders.
14:39They do a lot of that sort of stuff with him.
14:42And then the other thing is a lot of their blitz packages and what they're doing on pressure downs to me has been really impressive.
14:49Even from week one, we've started to see Fred Warner be used a lot more as a piece like on the ball and as a blitzer.
14:56And there are definitely numbers to back it up.
14:59Like in 2024 and 2025, he was rushing about two to three times a game.
15:03And that was about how much they used him.
15:05So far through four games this season, he has pass rushed 21 times, which is just over five times a game.
15:11And it's not even just when they send him.
15:14Like they put him mugged up a lot to like draw pressure.
15:17And teams are going to slide their protection that way because they don't want to deal with him.
15:22And it's the way that I think that they've schemed that up when it's still a pass rush unit that is fine,
15:28but obviously does not have Nick Bosa right now.
15:30And you've got to generate some of that stuff.
15:33They've done a really kick-ass job of doing that, I think.
15:36They're varied schematically. They're literally varied per next gen.
15:38They've used 15 D linemen through four games, which is the most of the next gen era.
15:43Between injuries and just rotating guys. There's 15, and again, it sounds like Michael Williams is back for this game.
15:49I hope that's the case because he's an exciting young player.
15:52If he is, go ahead and call it 16 guys through first five weeks of the season.
15:56The pressure stuff and just how they're using some of those front players is really what has stuck out.
16:02Because now, I was wondering what the defense would look like with Raheem Morris.
16:05Because obviously, his background is, there's really no specific and quick way to explain it.
16:10He's coached in virtually every single type of defensive system.
16:12Odd front, even front, blitz happy teams, more coverage-based teams.
16:15He's done a little bit of everything. And so, I was curious what tweaks we would see to a Niners team that
16:21had really been a lot of four down, similar stuff for a very long time.
16:25Considering who the coordinators have been. And I think the main tweak that we've seen, and this is partially driven by the
16:31personnel, Duggar and Romello Height are both hybrid-type players.
16:34And so, we have seen them really lean into those guys as a way to make this thing feel a little bit more dynamic.
16:40Where Height will be lined up as a spinner, and they'll run a simulated pressure with Fred Warner, where Height is the one that's dropping into the hook.
16:48Or Duggar will be lined up on the line of scrimmage.
16:51And so, your pressure plan is just a little bit more dynamic because you have all these sort of flexible pieces.
16:57And that, to me, is what has felt different.
16:59When this team faces a second and nine or any sort of third down situation, it's anybody's guess who's going to be
17:05mugged up on the line of scrimmage. Where they're going to be.
17:09Who's coming. Who's not. And I think they've really used that to advantage and used it in tandem with a back seven
17:15and a secondary specifically that's playing well. I mean, you look at that group, like Lenore's playing really well.
17:20Renardo Green is a solid player. And then the safeties, Marquis Siegel had managed to stave off Malik Mustafa, even though he was healthy.
17:27He was banged up in training camp, but he was healthy by the time they started the season.
17:32And Siegel had been playing well enough where they were like, we're just going to roll with this guy.
17:37He's now hurt. But now you're going back to the guy who would have been the starter coming into the year.
17:43And so, it's a good group on the back end.
17:45It's a pretty deep group on the back end.
17:48And they've paired that with a pass rush plan that I think should scare teams right now.
17:53They have a lot of guys with juice. They're undersized as a group.
17:56But if you're getting teams in a second and nine, that matters less.
18:00And they're doing a good job of that. I'm just so happy to see the secondary have a chance.
18:05Because last year, they just didn't. Like, I thought the secondary, it's a lot of the same guys.
18:10It's pretty much all the same guys as they had in the secondary last year.
18:14But the front was so bad, whether that was getting them into not enough, like, pure passing downs.
18:19Or when they were in pure passing downs, the pass rush just wasn't getting home.
18:23The fact that they can get home a little bit more.
18:26They're speeding quarterbacks up in terms of their internal clock.
18:29You can see Renardo Green driving on routes. Lenore really squeezing guys to the sideline.
18:33The safeties are playing fast. And overall, the linebacker play is so much better than last year.
18:38One, because Warner is just healthy. And he's the best player at the position by a mile.
18:42But Trey Greenlaw, baby. He is back. He is exceptional again.
18:45And I don't know if it was just weird with the coaching staff in Denver.
18:50He was obviously dealing with some injuries and stuff.
18:52But put him back next to Fred Warner. And that dude looks like a second team all pro again.
18:57I think we can take it one step further than that in terms of how he looked last week.
19:03He looked... What is the word I'm looking for?
19:05Oh, John Wick? Yeah. He looked like a man on a revenge tour last week.
19:09One of my favorite moments of last week is Fred Warner yanking Drake Greenlaw away from Sean Payton after that game ended.
19:15That's incredible. You saw the clip of him. And I don't know what he said.
19:19That part was, like, made up. But he made a great tackle for, like, a small gain.
19:24And Sean Payton was, like, 10 feet away. And he went right to Sean Payton and was, like, pointing at him.
19:30The Gary Bertier. Yeah, exactly. Yes, from Remember the Titans.
19:33It was, like, the fifth play of the game.
19:35Like, it happened, like, immediately. And I was like, Jesus.
19:38But, hey, sometimes you just need to leave home to find out what you were missing the whole time.
19:43You know, he went away for a year. And now he's back to looking like Drake Greenlaw.
19:48What do we think about? All right. We kind of established what the Niners defense has been so far this year.
19:53What does that mean against this Seahawks offense specifically in your mind?
19:57Yeah. I would say in most matchups, a lot of other teams, you can run the ball a little bit on this San Francisco 49ers defense.
20:04They are, like you mentioned, they're still pretty small.
20:06They're without Nick Bosa. You can move these D tackles around a little bit.
20:10But the Seahawks are mostly still an outside zone, lead zone sort of running team.
20:14And I actually think if you're going to try to attack guys like Keon White on the edge, like, he's actually a good edge setter.
20:21And then I think if you're playing more zone stuff and you're, like, trying to get the backers to kind of connect
20:27four, fit into wherever their slot is going to be, they're really, really good at that.
20:32And whereas I think you can really get this run defenses if you run duo, some of the counter gap stuff.
20:38That's just not as much of what Seattle does.
20:40So I actually think that San Francisco 49ers run defense could be solid against a Seattle team that doesn't have either of its two best backs.
20:47And then the second part of that, I think we're seeing that Sam Darnold is just not seeing it as well as he did last year.
20:54And that's obviously he misses, you know, a couple of games like he's not fully healthy.
20:59He's still trying to learn a system that's a little bit new to him.
21:03But I think while that might be fine five weeks from now when he's got a little bit more time, that's probably really tough.
21:09I think against the San Francisco 49ers defense that the pressure stuff is really good.
21:13And Fred Warner is going to take away all the throws that he wants to throw.
21:18And so I do think that this is going to be tough sledding for Seattle.
21:22With a quarterback that just feels a little bit more unsettled than he did last year, like you go back and you watch that Chargers game.
21:29That's the word that I would probably use. This is a Niners defense where if you can get them into defined passing
21:35situations on second and long, third down, their defense is playing a way that's going to make quarterbacks feel more unsettled because
21:41of that pressure stuff that we were talking about.
21:44And so I think if the Niners can stop the run early downs and we get a lot of pure passing situations
21:50for Seattle, I don't know if that's the way they want the game to go.
21:54I'll be impressed if Seattle runs the ball well in this game, just between what the Niners have done, what the Seahawks have looked like.
22:01Seahawks also, you make a great point about like early downs.
22:04The Seahawks are also horrendous in short yardage, which could loom large in a game like this with Warner and Greenlaw playing the way they're playing.
22:11And what we've seen, you know, the Seahawks are third worst in the league in runs of negative or zero yards.
22:17Twenty twenty four percent of the time, like they're in Raiders Packers territory of just not being able to generate things.
22:23Some of that is obviously Jadarian Price not being available, but I don't know, man.
22:27I just I do not trust them to consistently be successful running the ball in this game.
22:31I feel like it might be a little ugly.
22:34If this was a 1917 sort of finish, that wouldn't surprise me based on everything that we've just said.
22:39I do think the defenses in this game potentially have the upper hand on both sides of the ball.
22:44I do think JSN is a hell of a trump card.
22:47Like, I'm not going to be surprised if they if it just works out that, you know, if JSN goes off in
22:53this game, I can't rule that out entirely. Let's get to our next one here.
22:57Bills at Rams. This is Monday Night Football, correct?
23:00It sure is. Look at me. The only reason I know that is because Bauer told us 15 minutes before we started recording.
23:06I don't like I don't really expect you to know that noon verse 3 p.m.
23:10kicks, but the fact that you didn't know that this is Monday Night Football is admirable.
23:15It's a degree of like just being locked in that I can't even fathom.
23:19I watch them all. It doesn't matter when they're on.
23:21I'm going to watch them all. Bauer tells me which recaps we do in the studio.
23:26That's that's that's the only thing that really matters.
23:28As long as you show up for those, we're good.
23:31I'm showing up now. We'll see what happens over the rest of the year.
23:35Again, similar to Seahawks Seahawks Niners. Don't think we really have to sell you on this one.
23:40Rams bills was a pretty popular Super Bowl pig before the season started.
23:43They were the favorites in their respective conferences to go to the Super Bowl.
23:47They the best Super Bowl odds. We have the two previous MVPs playing against each other, which has doesn't happen that often.
23:53The crazy thing is it kind of does. Oh, OK.
23:56Oh, it does happen. OK, it does happen. Like, no, when I saw this, I was like, oh, it's Allen versus Stafford.
24:02That can't happen very often. The the teams that employ the previous two MVPs have played each other in seven of the last eight years.
24:09We haven't always gotten that matchup because like in 2023, Rogers was out when they played the Chiefs.
24:14And I think Lamar missed a game against Patrick Mahomes earlier.
24:17But like we've had a really crazy run of these matchups where the previous two MVPs are playing each other.
24:22And I think it's probably because a lot of the MVPs in recent years have played division winners in the AFC division winners.
24:29Yeah, exactly. But this is not that. Yeah, we've got, you know, a cross conference game with the two reigning MVPs.
24:34Let's go. Similar to the situation with the Niners defense.
24:37We really, Derek, haven't talked much about the Bills defense so far this season.
24:41I don't think they've been a game of the week since maybe week one.
24:45They played a Thursday night game. And so, again, talking just more about how the offenses looked in that game.
24:50As you went back and rewatched what the Jim Liner defense has looked like so far for Buffalo, what were your initial
24:56impressions, initial thoughts about just what they're trying to be on that side of the ball and what has stuck out about it?
25:03I think you got to kind of separate front from from back seven here for a lot of different reasons.
25:08I think the front is playing out of their mind.
25:11Like, I think that there's been so much talk about like what Deion Walker has been at Oliver getting back into the lineup.
25:17I think their D tackles have played really well.
25:20Landon Jackson as a defensive tackle conversion guy, I think, has actually been pretty good.
25:24solid for them. He was the one who I think forced the strip sack against Drake May last week.
25:29And then their edges are freaks, man. They've spent so long trying to be like, oh, we're going to have all these long 265 pound guys.
25:36And really, other than Greg Rousseau, not many of them have been like difference makers.
25:41But Bradley Chubb is awesome. And for a rookie who's off your bench, TJ Parker, I think has been really good for them.
25:47So I love what they are trying to be up front where it's a lot of we're choking the pocket.
25:52We're making sure we're getting setting the edge. Like, I think they've done really well there.
25:57The back end, they've had to simplify it for these guys.
26:00And I think that you're seeing it because it's just not a good group right now, especially with Christian Benford out.
26:06And I think a big thing that stuck out to me, especially in this last game against the Patriots, when they play
26:12all their zone stuff, anytime they get like three by one or anything like that, the backside corner is locked in man coverage.
26:18And they're just saying, hey, we don't want you seeing anything.
26:21We don't want you giving up air. Just press him and get hands on.
26:25And same thing with whoever the backside like flat defender is.
26:28They're just like run straight to the back, hug him.
26:31Do not let him out of the backfield. And I think that can work against certain teams.
26:35I think if we're going to spin it forward to this week against the Rams, if that's Devante Adams on the backside,
26:41if that's Kyron Williams out of the backfield, buddy, I don't know.
26:45I think the Rams probably have a pretty good matchup in that sense.
26:48I mean, they were struggling last week in one-on-one situations against the Patriots corners.
26:52And Matt Collins broke off. I think it was Ibn Ossian on like a deep end breaker.
26:57And the separation he creates at the top of that route, it's like, that's Matt Collins.
27:01If that's Puka or Devante Adams, I think it becomes even uglier.
27:05When I went back and watched it, disappoint is probably too strong a word.
27:08I was really curious about what a Jim Leonard defense would look like.
27:12And when you look at, and the front multiplicity and variability obviously has been tons more than it was last year.
27:18Guys are lining up in different places. We're slanting the front.
27:21We're doing it. It's just more alive up front than it was in previous iterations of this defense.
27:26But on the back end, it's been a lot of zone coverage.
27:29It's they're not blitzing very often. Like they're sending a decent amount of simulated pressures, which I think we should have assumed
27:35that Jim Leonard did a ton of that when he was at Wisconsin.
27:39It's a huge part of his background, but it's all just a little bit more boring.
27:43That I thought it was going to be. Like, do you think that's fair?
27:47Like overall, like when I watch it, it's all, it's all just a little bit more boring than I thought it was going to be.
27:54And that's fine. You can live that way. But the things about this defense that have been exciting to me are solely rooted in personnel.
28:01Like when I watched this group, Walker and Rousseau is what really jumped out to me, just how they're playing on an individual level.
28:07And I just thought overall, there would be a little bit more oomph and a little bit more life to some of
28:13the stuff that they were doing with Jim Leonard than there has been so far.
28:18Is that unfair? I am surprised that they are not bringing quite as much pressure and they're like middle of the pack in terms of blitzing.
28:25But I did think that they would be higher because when Jim Leonard, the last time we saw him really call a defense was, was Wisconsin.
28:32And they were throwing those linebackers at people all day.
28:35And granted, it was Leo Chennault and Jack Sanborn who are NFL players at the college level.
28:39So maybe that's why you think you can get away with it more.
28:43And these are our bills linebackers who are, they're a little bit smaller.
28:46Terrell Bernard and Doreen Williams are not going to blow anybody up.
28:50They're not going to move running backs. And so maybe that's part of it.
28:54But I did think that there would be a little bit more of that.
28:57The coverage stuff. I'm at least willing to give them a little bit of benefit of the doubt, just because I think
29:04that this is still not a very talented secondary outside of obviously, especially with Christian Benford now not playing.
29:09That was going to be my question is, do you think Jim Leonard trusts his guys to hold up if he tries to play it that crazy?
29:16No, I would clearly not. And I think that's a fair place to land right now with the way that the corners
29:22are playing and, and the bills defense has been consistently pretty mediocre on the back end so far this year.
29:28Anything else, Derek, about this matchup specifically that you think is worth paying attention to?
29:32In terms of Rams offense, bills defense, I do.
29:34I do actually. And I want to flip it back to the other side of the ball here with the Rams offense.
29:40When they've been elite at their best, Matthew Stafford is winning MVPs.
29:44It's because they've been able to stay out of the pure drop back passing downs.
29:48And that to me is not necessarily that Stafford can't see it.
29:51It's just that this is an offensive line that is not very good in pure pass protection spots and Stafford can't move.
29:57So he's going to stand on his spot. And if he's crowded, he's going to throw it and it's going to lead to some interceptions.
30:04And I think we've got a couple of stats that really back up that that's been more of an issue for them
30:10this year than it really was at any point last year.
30:13The Rams last season had 22 drop backs of second and 11 or longer.
30:17It was the lowest in the NFL by five.
30:20They already have 13 of those this season through four games is tied for the third most in the NFL.
30:25And that extends to third down on third down.
30:28They've had 15 drop backs of our last year in 2025.
30:31They had 15 third down drop backs of at least 11 yards to go lowest in the NFL again.
30:36This year they have 10 like they are almost there through four games and you are just and what's funny is normally
30:42you would think that's like, oh, well, maybe the run game kind of fell away and that's been more of an issue for them.
30:48It's really not. The run game is almost as successful and consistent as it was last year.
30:53It's penalties penalties are killing them and some of their first down past stuff is not as good because Pukundukua has been
30:59hurt and Terrence Ferguson's hurt now and they can't boot as much as they used to because I think they're worried about Stafford moving.
31:06And so some of the layers of stuff that was easy for them of getting into or getting away from pure past stuff.
31:12They've struggled with that this year and you're seeing it and that's where that's where the Stafford mistakes come from the interceptions the bad misses stuff like that.
31:20It's funny to think that we're heading into week five and I don't think we could possibly guess at what the Rams
31:26actually want to be because Puka got healthy just in time for them to be down two tight ends last week.
31:32I rewatched the Eagles Rams game and like seven snaps in.
31:35I was like, holy shit. Has this all been shotgun?
31:38They ran like 87% of their snaps out of the gun last week because they had to switch it up without their tight ends.
31:44I guess that's the reason, but it's what I've come away thinking about the Rams over the first month is that when
31:50this team was at its best last year, there were so few moments, so few games where they weren't the ones consistently
31:56dictating the terms of how things were going to go.
31:59And some of that is staying in the proper down and distances like Derek was talking about.
32:04When you're constantly in third and two, third and one, you can lean into under center play action stuff there where you're very rarely in pure pass.
32:11You can be the one that's dictating terms. I think this offense relies on that because of who the tackles are, because
32:17of who Stafford is at this point in his career.
32:20And when they're still a good offense, right? They're top 10 in virtually every single metric, but you feel the inconsistency because
32:26they're just playing the games purely on their terms less often than they were for the entirety of last season.
32:32And I'm willing to buy that they can get back there, right?
32:35Like when Puka Nakua comes back, like when Puka Nakua, I think ramps up because I do think last week he doesn't
32:41look fully like 100% like Puka Nakua. But if a month from now he does.
32:45Yeah, I bet the Rams can do a lot of the stuff that they want to again.
32:50But until we get there, there's going to be a little bit more herky jerkiness.
32:54I don't know what Colby Parkinson's status is for this game, but if he can play and I know Terrence Ferguson had
33:00to be moved to IR, which is a bummer.
33:02But if he can play, then the Rams would have their choice of their top four receivers because Jordan Whittington came back
33:08last week, too, or maybe it was two weeks ago, but he's back.
33:12He was back two weeks ago, but didn't play that much.
33:15He was still a little bit further down the depth chart.
33:18So you have your choice of your receivers and you do have three tight ends available to you.
33:23If if they have the full menu of who they want to put out there available, I'm just curious to see what
33:29it would look like, because like I said, I just I don't think they've been able to call it the way that
33:35they would prefer really to this point in the season.
33:38I don't say that to make excuses for them.
33:40And to your point, they've still been a successful offense for the most part.
33:44It just doesn't look as beautiful as it does when your quarterback's playing like an MVP and Stafford hasn't been terrible, but
33:50he hasn't he hasn't been on that level. And to Derek's point about what this looks like, I couldn't believe it when I looked it up.
33:57And again, so and I know they were playing in the rain, but like so many either miscommunications or outright drops like
34:04him and Devante Adams haven't other than that Giants game, like haven't consistently been on the same page.
34:08He has thrown five interceptions so far this year when throwing the ball 16 plus yards downfield in the like 16 plus air yards.
34:15He threw one interception on those types of throws all last year.
34:18So like you it's really obvious that even this offense for the most part is moving the ball and scoring points.
34:24Still, it's it's a far cry from what we got used to last year, at least to this point.
34:29Oh, they're just so inconsistent. Like they still have not found their footing in any way.
34:34And the other number I'd throw out again, just trying to paint a picture of the gap between what we saw from
34:40them last year and what we've seen from them this year.
34:43When this offense has been rolling 2021 Super Bowl year last season with Stafford winning the MVP, they've been one of the
34:49best teams in the league against the Blitz. It's it's a good bellwether, honestly, for how healthy the offense feels overall.
34:55This year, super small sample. We're throwing out constantly at this point in the season.
34:59And Stafford negative point two seven EPA per drop back, 42 percent success rate, 19 of 39 with three interceptions against the
35:05Blitz so far and open to the idea of that getting better over an entire season.
35:09But again, if you're trying to figure out like, why doesn't I quite feel the same offensively for the Rams as it did last year?
35:16I think there are a lot of different things you could point to.
35:20Let's go to the other side of the ball.
35:22Derek, the number one thing you're looking for when the Bills have the ball in this game, just based on what you've
35:28seen from Buffalo over the first month is what?
35:31I'm a little worried about the offensive line against the front like the Rams have like there.
35:36Obviously, you know, they're missing Miles Garrett, but it is still a very, very good Rams front even without him.
35:41And I think this Bills offensive line is not quite playing to the level that we have seen from them, especially, I think, in pass protection.
35:48Obviously, the first two weeks running the ball, they were unbelievable.
35:51But the run game has changed a little bit because of some of the ways that they're doing things.
35:56And I just think that like Osiris Torrance, I thought looked a little bit lost last week.
36:01And then the big one to me, Deion Dawkins just does not look like a set it and forget it sort of left tackle.
36:08Like, I think that you're just seeing he's trying to jump on guys a little bit more and it's losing him reps immediately.
36:14There were a couple of times where Gabe Aukis was just blowing him up last week.
36:18And that's that's kind of what Gabe Aukis does.
36:21But guess who can do that? The Rams guys.
36:23Look at this man just twisting this into Gabe Aukis propaganda.
36:26You're not going to do any argument for me.
36:29He always knows where he's trying to get to.
36:31Gabe Aukis is firmly on the short list of guys I get excited to see on my TV screen as far as the rookies go.
36:38I know my spot. I can find the corner three with my takes.
36:42But again, the Rams guys can do that. Byron Young can do that to you.
36:46Josiah Stewart can do that to you. Like, I just think that I think that they're going to have a little bit
36:52of issues in terms of the pure pass protection stuff.
36:55And I think if you were on the Bill side, the thing that you would really, really be hoping for is, OK,
37:01the Rams are playing a little bit more man coverage this year.
37:04Let's have DJ Moore out there. It gives us a chance against man coverage and it bumps all of our other wide
37:10receivers down the totem pole to where they can face some potentially lesser Rams DBs in terms of that mold.
37:16Well, if DJ Moore is not going to play and that seems pretty uncertain and Trent McDuffie is just going to go
37:22get to man up your best guy, it's really hard for me to see how the Bills guys separate consistently in this game.
37:28But I mean, even if DJ Moore is going to play like that, that's not really what DJ Moore is.
37:34DJ Moore in a shoulder harness going against Trent McDuffie doesn't sound like an advantage for the Bills.
37:39No. So especially not with how he's playing this year.
37:41McDuffie, that is. That's what I mean. This version of Trent McDuffie against DJ Moore, even at 100 percent like DJ Moore
37:47is not some separation creating man coverage beater. Like that's never been who he is.
37:52And so I think overall, those matchups on the outside very much favor the Rams.
37:56I'm curious what the approach is for Buffalo offensively in this game, because you look at what they did last week.
38:01We mentioned on the recap show very little like super heavy personnel compared to what it had been over the first few weeks.
38:08I think Joe Brady came out and said that part of that might have been because DJ Moore got hurt mid game
38:14and he was the sole receiver in some of those 13 personnel looks.
38:17He very coach. He coach spoke his way through it, but he said he was like last week's game was weird.
38:23And, you know, part of the plan changed when DJ Moore got hurt.
38:27And you took the words right out of my mouth when we talked about it is like if DJ Moore is unavailable,
38:33wouldn't you look for more opportunities for Dalton Kincaid to be your guy as a pass catcher instead of running 17 routes in a game?
38:40I think the thought of who needs to play the one receiver role in 13 personnel is just anybody.
38:45Like anybody, that is what I would guess. Pop, pop, pop, whoever you want out there.
38:49Like the amount of Kanata Mumfield, Xavier Smith snaps to to Atwell snaps that we've gotten out of those looks from the
38:55Rams over the last couple of years. Like it could truly be anybody that you want.
39:00I haven't checked the numbers this year, so it might be different, but I'm pretty sure last year Mumfield was the Rams top guy in 13.
39:07That's because the other guys were getting breathers when they were in that.
39:11And so the idea. So, I mean, the bill, the bills are second in the league in 13 personnel snaps right now.
39:17They're the only team that's really even in the Rams zip code.
39:20They ran seven last week. And if DJ Moore being hurt is the reason why they ditched it, that's just kind of
39:26wild to me, like for every reason that you just said.
39:29So I'm curious to see if they maintain that because I don't, it just, it looked too good to completely scrap it no matter who's available.
39:36Again, we could say some million things about every single stat we're going to mention.
39:40Small sample, but 16 dropbacks out of base personnel for the Rams this year.
39:44They've been good on those 16 dropbacks. I still, if I were building a plan for the bills, getting those three guys
39:50out there, making them play with bigger bodies and seeing if I could both run the ball downhill and throw the ball
39:56against those looks, that's probably what I'd be trying to lean into if I were Buffalo.
40:01That is a hundred percent what I would be trying to do.
40:04And I will say one interesting thing there, the Rams will play even out of base personnel.
40:09A lot of like the six one fronts, they'll put space on the line or something like that and have Landman just be a solo guy.
40:16So that does kind of feel like a decent answer.
40:19If the bills are going to play a lot of those like five man surfaces and just spread stuff out, but we'll, we'll see how it goes.
40:26All right. We're going to take our first quick break and then come back and spend a little time in the danger zone.
40:32We trotted this out, I think heading into week three, right?
40:35That sounds right. Yeah. Where we spent a little bit of time with teams that circling the drain might be strong, but
40:42should be feeling an increased sense of urgency. And to be clear, the team that we're going to talk about that is
40:48living in the danger zone right now, we were going to do this before they had the last couple of days that
40:54they had, before Lane Johnson retired, before Cam Juergens got traded.
40:57We were already going to talk about the fact that it seemed like this Eagle season was on life support.
41:02It doesn't feel less like that now. I was so proud of us for trotting this takeout on Tuesday morning.
41:08Like, yeah, hey, Eagles are two and two, but we need to be talking about this.
41:12And I mean, two hours after our first production call of the week, Lane Johnson retired.
41:17So I was like, all right, well, this is hardly a hot take anymore.
41:20And then they traded Cam Juergens. So, yeah, it happens when you record the show on Thursday.
41:25But I mean, it is, it's still a point worth making, even if it's not a hot take anymore.
41:30Yeah, it's everything that's happened doesn't make this conversation less relevant.
41:33It makes it potentially even more relevant. If you guys want to hear like a breakdown of the Juergens trade specifically, what
41:39it means for Philly, what it means for Baltimore.
41:42Deontay and I spent a lot of time digging into that on yesterday's show.
41:46Just why the Eagles would be willing to do this in this moment.
41:49I think it's pretty self-explanatory. It's a fantastic return on a guy who wasn't playing very well, has some injury concerns and
41:55is making a decent amount of money. For the Ravens, it's a, we're trying to save our season because our offense is playing at a really high level.
42:03We need a center. I get it from both sides, even if it's an overpay.
42:07What we didn't really do on that show because it, the, where it fell in the news cycle and the fact that
42:13the Juergens trade happened right before we started recording.
42:16I want to take a minute just to talk about Lane Johnson and Lane Johnson's career before we dig into the current
42:22state of the Philadelphia Eagles, because this is one of the best players of his generation at any position.
42:27And I think just a little bit of Lane Johnson career celebration is worth it before we dig into everything else we want to talk about here.
42:34It's weird to do it in the middle of the go, go, go cycle of getting ready for the upcoming weekend.
42:40But it, yes, I mean, this is a, this is a no doubt instant hall of famer.
42:45I was thinking about this. People were talking about it on social media.
42:49I mean, in the pantheon of offensive linemen, like right tackles, potentially probably the best ever.
42:53Yeah. I'd have to go back and look at the actual list, but certainly in the conversation.
42:58And I think did a lot to reframe what we, how we see right tackles, how we compensate right tackles, how we
43:04talk about right tackles, the closing gap between how we value guys at that position.
43:08I mean, for a long time, he was treated as an outlier contractually go ask Mitch about it and how pissed off he was.
43:14The fact that they treated lane as an outlier contractually.
43:17When I started actually lane's draft was my first draft covering the NFL number four overall pick in 2013 day one starter,
43:23you know, all the accolades five, five, all pros one, both that was on both of Philly's Superbowl teams.
43:28When I started covering this, even in 2013, it was still like, ah, he's probably got to be a right tackle in the NFL though.
43:35Like he's not, he's not there. No, no, no, no, no.
43:38I just, in general, in football, it was still very much.
43:41Oh yes. That's how we talked about right tackles.
43:44Yes. Like, oh, like he's great, but he's got to play right tackle in the NFL because he's lesser, you know, or
43:50like he's not the athlete or, or whatever it might be.
43:53He doesn't have the traits to play left tackle Lane Johnson.
43:56And, and I don't know, he has more traits than any tackle that's come into the draft in the last 20 years.
44:02Yeah. It's not, it's not all him. Other guys were part of it, but like he was at the forefront of this surge of right tackle being valued.
44:10And you could be arguably, or definitely the best offensive lineman in football and play right tackle.
44:14Like as recently as like 2013, it wasn't always viewed that way.
44:18Okay. Everyone assumed he would just move over to the left side when Jason Peters moved on.
44:22That just never happened. Cause it doesn't have to happen.
44:25We would do this because you typically leave left tackles on an Island more than you leave right tackles.
44:30That, that just the construction of your offense, the Eagles did not do that.
44:34And I think that if you're trying to articulate the greatness of like what may lay Johnson such a special player, I
44:40think when you're comparing him to the best left tackle of the past 10 years, a guy like Trent Williams, we talk about this all the time.
44:48If I showed my wife clips of Trent Williams, like as a run blocker, she would very easily be able to understand
44:54why Trent Williams was like a special player. But because Lane's greatness manifested so much in past protection, it was just a
45:00quieter version of utter complete and consistent dominance. And it's the way they used him.
45:04I had such a great conversation with Jordan Mailata at training camp this year.
45:08And we were talking about the new offense and what the new offense was asking of them.
45:13And he was telling me just about talking to Lane about the fact that they had a little bit more help and
45:19that there are times where the guard would slide their way.
45:22And they were just like, holy shit, you can do this.
45:25This is something you can do in an NFL offense because for years and years and years, they and especially Lane were
45:31just asked to be on an island constantly. Like what they were asking him to do within the offense, the offense could
45:37be what it could be because of what you could put on Lane Johnson.
45:41He was a singular player in a lot of ways, specifically at that position.
45:45And I think we just didn't talk about it or notice it often enough because, again, his version of being great was
45:51just a little bit quieter and a little bit less flashy than some other offensive lineman.
45:55Well, and it's how often do we talk about with offensive linemen?
45:58The best thing that you can do as an offensive lineman during the game is that nobody even thinks about you being there.
46:05And Lane Johnson is the most you just kind of forget that anything is even happening on the right side because he's
46:11never giving up pressures, never giving up sacks. He was an incredible model for consistency.
46:15And Dave, I'm glad you said 2013 was your first draft.
46:18That was my first draft doing any of this stuff.
46:21And I remember like so Lane Johnson for the entirety of the time that I've been doing this job, it's been him
46:27and Trent Williams for like if I was doing the all Derek career team, those are the tackles.
46:32And so the fact that one of them is now is now gone is really sad because he truly was a really special player for a long time.
46:39Math is not my strong suit. It's why I, one of the reasons I wanted to pursue a career in writing, but
46:45I did some quick math on just what Lane Johnson did over the course of his career.
46:50So just shy of 12,000 career snaps, 6,500 pass blocking opportunities, 295 career pressures allowed.
46:54So I averaged that out by a per game basis.
46:57A pressure allowed every 22 pass blocks. Yeah, it's ridiculous.
47:00But then I was curious too, 40% Robert of his career pressures allowed came in the first three years of his career.
47:06So from 2016 to 2026, he was allowing a pressure every 30 pass block opportunities, which like, you know, an offensive tackle,
47:12it might be between like 30 and 35 opportunities a game.
47:15So over the course of his career, depending on whether you want to do all 14 years or just the last 10,
47:21he was at, he was allowing an average between one and two pressures a game for 14 freaking years, dude.
47:26And then if you want to do sacks, 33 sacks allowed in 188 games.
47:30Do the math, depending on when you want to start over the course of his entire career, he was allowing a sack every five or six games.
47:38And again, 11 of his 33 sacks allowed came when he was a rookie.
47:42So if you just nix out the rookie year and go by the other 13 years of his career, he was allowing
47:48a sack every eight games for 13 years. It's absolutely incredible.
47:51A singular career. And one other thing I wanted to say, because, you know, the circumstances of this suck, obviously, like, you
47:57know, he's, he's long been a mental health advocate.
47:59He stepped away. I think it was in 2021 for a few games.
48:03Yeah, I think it, yeah. Yes. I can't remember the exact circumstances.
48:06It had something to do with the medication he was on and just some of the things that they were dealing with,
48:12but he's obviously dealing with something very serious and much more than football.
48:16And the idea that he would be stepping away for something that it wasn't incredibly critical.
48:20Remember, this is a man who played through a torn abductor when the Eagles had a shot to win a Super Bowl in 2020.
48:27I think it was 2022 season. He played through a torn abductor in the playoffs just to give you an idea of whatever he might be dealing with.
48:34So I just, I wish him the best on a personal level.
48:38And obviously the timing sucks, but to like, to question what Lane Johnson is all about over it, just off.
48:43Imagine how hard that decision must be. Yeah. To walk away from not only your, your, the locker room, your teammates, but
48:49to walk away from a place where I assume there's a comfort, there's a familiarity, there's a purpose.
48:54Like, I can't even imagine how difficult that decision was.
48:57And everything about this, both the Lane Johnson element of it and just the fallout and kind of the, the Eagles and
49:03the way that they've reacted to it is just such a reminder that these are people.
49:08And I'll say I'm guilty of this sometimes where I think we can talk about football on a schematic level and they
49:14can be X's and O's on a chalkboard. And we kind of remove, remove the humanity from it a little bit too often.
49:20But the guy that I really was paying attention to over the last 48 hours is Jordan Malata.
49:25I mean, Jordan Malata is living the Will Smith living room meme right now.
49:29Yeah. I mean, he's been the guy that, that, that entire group was together for years and years and years.
49:34Landon Dickerson's hurt right now. Lane Johnson just retired.
49:37Cam Juergens gets traded. And they asked him yesterday about the Juergens trade.
49:40And he, he talked about how after they heard about it, they both like shared a moment that cried the, they asked
49:46him like, you know, have his lane moving on?
49:49Is that made you think about how long you'll play?
49:52And he's like, yes. But at this point, like, I can't think about that.
49:55It's something I got to put in the background.
49:58I have to be the one who helps turn this thing around.
50:01And so I just, the entire, on multiple different levels, I think the human aspect of this has been front and center
50:07in a way that we don't always spend a lot of time focusing on, but probably should.
50:12Malata and Dickerson were the newcomers to this thing too.
50:15Like what, what feels like yesterday, you know, it feels like yesterday that I was like, holy shit, this Jordan Malata guy is really good.
50:22Where did he come from? He's like Jesus. And now, yeah, he's him.
50:25And I mean, and Dickerson's obviously not available right now.
50:28So among guys that can play, he's the last one.
50:31And I think that's really important place to transition here.
50:33It really does feel like we're moving to a different era.
50:36It really does feel like this era of Philadelphia Eagles football.
50:40Like just think about how we defined this team the year they won the Super Bowl.
50:44Think about the personalities, the players, the play style that really dictated how we thought about the Eagles over the last four or five years.
50:51Jason Kelsey's gone. Lane Johnson's gone. Landon Dickerson is hurt.
50:54AJ Brown is no longer here. It really does feel like we're moving into a different place.
50:58And I don't know what that means for the rest of this season.
51:02I said it yesterday and I maintained. I don't think the Cam Juergens trade is a signal that it's a fire sale.
51:08Like I wouldn't be calling about Quinion Mitchell and Cooper Dejean.
51:11That's not what this is. I think it was a deal that was too good to pass up.
51:16But on the offensive side of the ball, it really does feel like we could see this group potentially continue to spiral over the course of this season.
51:24And that was the conversation we were going to be having in this segment specifically, even before things like the Cam Juergens trade.
51:30And so I'm in a spot right now where I think this could get pretty ugly over the course of the year.
51:36And I'm not sure what salvages it. Over the course of this season, I think it's going to get very ugly because
51:42like in I think from a what they want to be standpoint, they already wanted to be a different era of Eagles football going into this season.
51:49You know, Stoutland being out of the building, they bring in Sean Mannion to run a different kind of offense than they'd brought before.
51:56AJ Brown is out of the building like they already wanted to be something else.
52:00But then you get some of the other injuries, Lane's retiring.
52:03And I think the Cam Juergens trade to me is not fire sale, but it's kind of an admission of like, OK,
52:09us trying to change it this year. We just got to like kind of start over fresh on this side of the ball.
52:16And I think that that's kind of where they're headed.
52:18And I think it's going to make for a very tough season this year because I think it was already going to
52:24be difficult trying to get, you know, new system.
52:27These guys are learning how to be more wide zone, all that stuff.
52:31Well, now you're doing it with Jordan Mailata is the only good guy they wanted out there.
52:35And, you know, Tyler Steen was a starter coming into the year, but I think he's been very up and down.
52:41But otherwise, it's a lot of young players. It's a lot of guys who are supposed to be depth pieces for them.
52:47And they don't have any of the pass catchers like healthy and available that they want to like fix this thing.
52:53Like Devonta Smith's been banged up. Dallas Goddard's not been out there.
52:56Like it's it is harder to see the light at the end of the tunnel than you would want for a team
53:02that is four weeks into this new thing. So I have a couple thoughts.
53:06I can't go. I can't go all the way there with y'all, although it does.
53:10It does remind me of 2024 for the wrong reasons, because remember 2024, they went down to Tampa and got the shit
53:16beat out of them going into their bye week.
53:19They got healthy on the week off. They retooled and they only lost one more game the rest of the way.
53:25But Lane didn't play that game in Tampa and neither did Devonta Smith or AJ Brown.
53:29And so like you had all this room for optimism, like we're going to get healthy.
53:33Three of our absolute best players are going to be back.
53:36And that made all the difference in the world.
53:39What are those reinforcements like? It's Devonta Smith. Devonta Smith.
53:42And that's not enough. That's not enough. Not nearly enough.
53:44OK, I will say this, though. Devonta Smith, Dallas Goddard.
53:47I think it goes underrated that Zach Bond didn't play against the Rams the other day.
53:51I don't think the Eagles are going to be like, I don't think they're going to spiral into being terrible, at least not without more injuries coming.
53:59But and I was the one fighting for the Eagles at the table heading into the season.
54:04I think I thought they had Super Bowl potential and I think they had Super Bowl expectations.
54:08Even if I don't think the Eagles are going to be terrible, that ship has sailed for me.
54:13Like the idea that they are on that level, it's it's it's over.
54:17And I did I definitely didn't expect to be there in week five.
54:20I think this team could mess around and and flirt with 500 or be over 500, depending on a few variables.
54:26But that even if you disagree, the fact that that is what I think they're capable of it.
54:31I mean, it's it speaks to how off the rails this season has already gone because we had a fight about whether
54:37they belonged at our table of Super Bowl contenders.
54:40And that seems laughable right now. I write and maybe this is reacting too much to what the last couple weeks have been like.
54:46They almost beat the Rams, but the Rams tried to give them that game like a half dozen times and they still couldn't win.
54:53I honestly I think about the state of the offense right now.
54:56The fact that the offensive line is going to be what it is for as excited as I am to watch Willie Lampkin play NFL football.
55:03I'm not sure that's enough for the Eagles offense looking like a buttoned up put together unit over the course of the season.
55:10If I had to bet on it right now, it's October 8th.
55:13I think I would depending on the odds you gave me, I would be more apt to bet on the Eagles to
55:19have a top 10 pick than I would be for them to be a playoff team.
55:23Top 10. Top 10 means seven wins or less.
55:26Just just making sure you're aware. The offense is unwatchable and the defense has been fine.
55:30Like fine. We thought the defense might be one of those like you season changing units.
55:35They've been disappointing, but there's still reason to think that they could be better.
55:39But let's just say their finishes the ninth best defense in the league and the offense is bottom eight at best over the course of the year.
55:46That's a team that wins seven games and picks ninth in the draft.
55:50It's on the table, which. I did not see coming, obviously.
55:53And and I would have I would have felt comfortable saying all of this stuff if Lane Johnson still played for the Eagles.
55:59And so that just exacerbates it even more. You have this tension with the Eagles building and you've seen it over the last 24 hours.
56:06Howie Roseman. Can operate with as much patience and distance from what's happening as he possibly wants.
56:11If the Eagles win six games this year, which they'll probably win more than that.
56:15They already have two wins. Howie Roseman is not losing his job.
56:18He can trade players. And I know Cam Juergens is not was not playing well, but just in a vacuum.
56:24He can trade players for 20, 28 picks because he knows he's going to be here.
56:28The coaching staff doesn't have that luxury. And so that that tension to me is interesting, to say the least.
56:33We talk in memes too often, but like the meme of the person drowning and they just get a high five like that's Nick Sirianni.
56:40Like Howie Roseman's like, we've got two ones and two twos in 2028, baby.
56:44And Sirianni is just waving for help as much as he can.
56:48Let's stick with a little danger zone talk here and talk about another.
56:51Let's call it interesting coaching dynamic in the NFL right now.
56:54Came out today. Curious how you want to frame this came out today that let's call it this.
56:59The Broncos are going to have a more collaborative process with the way that they're calling plays on Sunday against the Chargers
57:05and moving forward, meaning that Sean Payton is going to be more involved in what that looks like after a month of
57:11getting this from Davis Webb, not even a month.
57:14It took less than a month for Sean Payton to say, you know what?
57:18This wasn't a good idea. I'm going to be the play caller again.
57:21If I had said that to you in May, like if we had made the joke in May that Sean Payton would
57:27take play calling back less than a month into the season, we would have been like, ah, that's a little too glib.
57:33Like be realistic. Don't be don't be a jerk.
57:36If it happens, it'll happen later in the year.
57:38Like that would have felt too knee jerk. And reality is less, less than a calendar month.
57:43The season started on September 13th. They couldn't get to Halloween before Sean Payton was like, I got to take it back.
57:49And then, you know, they didn't say that he's immediately taking all of it back.
57:53But the fact that he is going to have more thumb on the scale to me means that like it's his offense.
57:59Well, some of the messaging was that Davis Webb is still going to be really involved in the process and everything else.
58:05Yeah. He's the offensive coordinator of the team. Of course.
58:08Even if he wasn't the play caller, he has a huge hand in the game planning.
58:12Like outside of getting fired, I would assume that he would continue to have a huge hand in the game planning.
58:18Listen, this is Davis Webb's fault. When you're looking at your play sheet, you have to pick the plays from the section
58:24of the play sheet that say the quarterback actually throws the ball.
58:27If you're not going to do that, then you're just it's a recipe for disaster.
58:32The line that the section that is four lines long in the whole the whole dinner menu of plays, there's four lines at the bottom.
58:39I was joking with y'all during the production meeting.
58:41Like, I don't even know. I don't know how much I could have gleaned from the 49ers defense against Denver because like the open receivers were there.
58:48Like, I don't know the right plays were called.
58:51The good plays were called. The balls weren't thrown.
58:53So, yeah, I don't know what this is going to do.
58:56The question I wanted to ask you is in a world where Josh Allen doesn't lose his mind and the Bills don't
59:02turn the ball over five times in the divisional round of the playoffs.
59:06Let's say the Bills win that game. Do you think that this happens or do you just like let Davis Webb leave?
59:12Because like to me, this this whole thing feels like a symptom of being that agonizingly close where you're like one freak
59:18injury away from playing in the Super Bowl probably.
59:21And so like that, that need to hold on to everything that you can just overtakes everything else.
59:26But that wasn't the status quo, though. He wasn't the play caller.
59:29It feels like. But like if you fall two games short of the Super Bowl instead of one.
59:34Do you say f*** it would anybody leave that wants to leave?
59:37Well, not not will let anybody leave. But like if somebody comes calling about Davis Webb and you lose the divisional round,
59:43you're like, OK, that's that's probably for the best.
59:46And like, good luck to you instead of being like, hey, man, we were we were right there.
59:51Because like what other reason would you do this for?
59:53That was what I always thought it was about.
59:56I don't really understand it even from that perspective, because it's this happens.
59:59Like if you have a good team and you win a bunch of games and you have coaches on your staff that
60:06are lower level guys, they're going to get hired away to get some of these roles.
60:10And so the idea that we had to give Davis Webb play calling so he wouldn't get hired away and be the play caller somewhere else.
60:17Isn't the entire point of having Sean Payton as your head coach so you don't have to worry about this shit?
60:23Well, yes. But you know what's funny now that I'm thinking about it?
60:26Sean Payton forever had an offensive coordinator that wasn't going anywhere.
60:30Pete Carmichael is his offensive coordinator forever in New Orleans and was never leaving.
60:33And so there's some amount of like he's used to that.
60:36But Davis Webb wasn't the offensive coordinator last year.
60:39Right. Joel Lombardi was the offensive coordinator last year.
60:41Davis Webb was the quarterback's coach. The idea that like we have to elevate our quarterback's coach to offensive coordinator in order to not lose him.
60:49Why? Like what is the reason for that? I think he was.
60:52Yeah, he was past game coordinator too. Excuse me.
60:54Excuse me. Just for the record. My God. We're halfway there.
60:57I remember we were in Indianapolis when it came down that this was going to happen.
61:02And in the moment we were all just like, okay, A, why?
61:05And B, how long do you think that's going to last?
61:08And like I said, to be proven right this quickly, like the truth is stranger than fiction.
61:13You know what I mean? Like I whole thing felt unnecessary.
61:16And I mean, maybe it'll help. Hopefully it helps.
61:18Yeah. Sean Payton is just going to call the plays where the quarterback throws the ball and that's going to change everything.
61:24That's all you really need to do. All right.
61:27Let's take one more quick break and then come back and hit one thing from a couple more of these week five matchups.
61:33Going to move through these pretty quickly. One thing from Ravens Falcons that I want to focus on.
61:38It's pretty simple. Can you stop the run if you're the Ravens?
61:41You look at what the Falcons have done over the last couple of weeks.
61:45Right now, Atlanta leads the league with a 51.1% rushing success rate per next gen.
61:49They've done what they've wanted on the ground. It's been absolutely incredible.
61:53Bajan has been phenomenal. We talked a lot about him yesterday with me and Deontay just sitting with the Falcons as being
61:59one of the coolest surprises of the season so far.
62:02The Ravens, their approach to run defense this year has really jumped out to me just in the sense of what Jesse Minter has been trying to do.
62:09They've been comfortable playing base to 12 personnel consistently, which is going to be a lot of what they're going to see against Atlanta this weekend.
62:16So I expect to see a decent amount of that.
62:19Overall, the Ravens have just been willing to play with heavier boxes than Minter was playing with last year.
62:24I think some of that is dictated by the teams that are playing against.
62:28If you look at the blocked box rate, so just the sheer number of snaps, the percentage of snaps where they have
62:34fewer defenders in the box than blockers, it's not that far off from what the Chargers were doing last year.
62:40And so the fact that they've been in light boxes 12 percentage points less than the Chargers were last year.
62:45I think it's like 43% to 21%. Some of that is dictated by opponent and just the way the teams are playing you.
62:52But overall, the Ravens have been willing to play with heavier boxes than the Chargers did last year.
62:57And next gen this year is doing it's actually very cool.
63:00Some of the stats are split up by actual run concepts.
63:03And again, small sample for games. But the Chargers or the Ravens this year so far have been top four in success rate against zone runs specifically.
63:10And obviously against the Chargers or against the Falcons, Derek, that's where they're going to be seeing a lot of.
63:16That's what the whole thing still is. You know, that's a lot of what they do because that's what Bajon Robinson is good at.
63:22He's just the way that he sees it, the way that he cuts is really special.
63:27I do think the Ravens defense has a good chance for a few reasons.
63:30Like I think the way that some of their edges are playing in run defense is really impressive.
63:35Like Zion Young is really, really good at that.
63:38I think Mike Green has been better in that sense.
63:41The linebackers, especially Trenton Simpson has taken a massive step this year.
63:44I think that he is playing really, really well for them.
63:47But to me, the big difference from especially what I think we've seen from these last couple of games against, you know,
63:53where the Falcons are playing the Packers and they're playing against the Saints, the Saints, especially their defensive tackles don't really get
63:59up the field and they're not that explosive. It's a lot of we're sitting on our spot where, you know, you're going
64:05to get four hands on us and we're going to try not to move that far.
64:10And I thought the Falcons did a really good job of handling that stuff.
64:13The Ravens guys will try to get upfield a little bit more like Travis Jones can be explosive.
64:18Matt Abike, you know, he's still working into the lineup and stuff, but he can do that.
64:23And I just think that their run tools are better in terms of when they're firing linebackers, how they're doing it.
64:29So I think the Ravens have a decent chance.
64:31I think we'll still get, you know, three digits from Bajon Robinson.
64:35I just don't know if it'll be 180 and three touchdowns the way that it's, you know, been the last couple of weeks.
64:41The other thing worth mentioning about this game, it really doesn't seem like Lamar is going to play.
64:46And why I wanted to mention that, I think it's two things.
64:49One, now we're in a spot where the Falcons beat the Lamar-less Ravens based on how Atlanta's played over the last couple of weeks.
64:56I don't think it would really shock anybody, right?
64:58I'd pick them if Lamar's not playing. Which, good opportunity to say, my bad, Falcons.
65:02I didn't know you were capable of this when I was making fun of you for playing three games in primetime in a row.
65:09We already did that mea culpa when you were gone.
65:12Oh, my bad. I'm sorry. We can continue to apologize for it.
65:15But I think everyone has made that apology at this point.
65:18I do want to say, though, I'm just not to say that they can't do it.
65:23And if Lamar doesn't play, I agree with Derek.
65:25This is a very winnable game for Atlanta. I want to see what it looks like when you don't run for literally 200 yards.
65:32Anything short of that. Well, I mean, that's the thing.
65:34Yeah. Can the Ravens prevent them from running for 200 yards?
65:37That's going to be the question. On that side of the ball, I just think it's worth mentioning.
65:42Lamar, over the first four weeks of the season, in my opinion, was the best player in football.
65:47The way that he was playing. And the Ravens have had a weird year.
65:51Like, they shut it down at halftime essentially twice.
65:54Lamar missed the second half of the last game.
65:56Like, Zay Flowers has been in and out of the lineup.
65:59But just watching how Lamar has been playing on a down-to-down basis, it makes me sad that that's getting derailed in any way.
66:06The hope is he misses a game or two, comes back and continues to play at that level.
66:11If that's the case, then the Ravens are ridiculously scary.
66:13But if this ankle, either because he's not 100% when he comes back or he's knocked out of the flow, the way
66:19he was playing before he got hurt, derails or affects the Lamar Jackson season that we were about to get with how
66:25he was playing in a new offense, that's like a tragedy.
66:28Because I think over the first month of the year, those first four games, if you just watch him down-to-down, the way
66:34he was playing the position, he again had the game in the palm of his hand in the way it felt like
66:41he did in 2024 over those first four games.
66:43He's been sensational, dude. And I know that, like, Zay Flowers has been really good in the way that they've been scheming up.
66:49Zay Flowers has been really impressive. But the pass-catching group is not, like, electric outside of that.
66:54He was just making this work with Matthew Hibner's getting reps and, like, just all the other secondary receivers that they've had.
67:00Like, these, Lamar Jackson was truly playing on, like, a really, really high level again.
67:04And not a lot of it was as a designed runner.
67:07You know, I think we came into the season being like, how much are they going to do any of that?
67:13It really has been him from the pocket dicing people up.
67:16And so if he's going to miss more than a couple of games, that is going to get a little bit dangerous.
67:22I do have some faith, though, that I'm pretty bought in on the Jesse Minter defense.
67:27And I do think that, like, the more they play, the better they will be.
67:31And there's a chance that they can just be really good for a month and win some games and keep them alive.
67:37But I think, to your point of what you said, what does Lamar look like when he comes back?
67:42That, to me, I think is the bigger question.
67:44Can they survive for three weeks? I'm totally—I would totally believe that he just looks the same.
67:49He comes back. He's healthy. He looks as good as he did at the start.
67:53Because I think some of this is the offense, Declan Doyle, the way that Zay is playing.
67:58But I just firmly believe that when he's at his best, I think he's just the best player in the league.
68:04And when we—like, the way that we saw him play in 2024 and the way we saw him play over the first
68:10month, like, I just think that's the best player in football when he's playing like that.
68:14And so if he doesn't get back to that level in week six, seven, whenever, again, that's like a tragedy in my mind.
68:21I still think the Ravens will be very good.
68:23I'm—I think he probably can get back to that level.
68:26But it's just at least worth monitoring. And the only reason I'm saying that is because of how scary good he was over the first four games.
68:33And he was hampered most of last year, too.
68:36And hopefully, if he needs to sit for a week or even two weeks to keep that from repeating itself, by all means.
68:42Let's get to one thing from Raiders Patriots. Derek, one thing you're watching, Raiders Patriots.
68:46Lay it on me. Yeah, this is—I'm looking at the man coverage from the Patriots.
68:50Now, this is interesting. They have been a defense that wants to do a lot of that.
68:55But no, Christian Gonzalez, he did not play last week.
68:58And I don't think Carlton Davis has been practicing much this week.
69:01And so that's going to be an issue for them.
69:04I still think that this is a lot of what they want to do.
69:08And I think I'm kind of of two minds about how that's going to work against the Raiders.
69:13They don't have very many good man-beating receivers. But they have one who is really, really difficult to deal with in Brock Bowers.
69:19And they do a really good job of scheming him up, whether it's putting him on stacks, you know, or as the
69:25second man in stacks so they can't get hands on him early.
69:28They can do switch verts, you know, switch stem stuff where it's a little bit hard for the DB to know exactly
69:34which way he's going to break and get him some open stuff.
69:38And I think why that would be particularly, I think, good for the Raiders potentially this week, especially if Gonzalez and Carlton Davis aren't going to play.
69:45Bowers proved last week that even against the longer corners like LeJarrius Sneed, he can still separate at the catch point and make plays.
69:52The Patriots guys are small. Marcus Jones is not big.
69:54Kendall Vildor is not big. And so if Carlton Davis and Christian Gonzalez are not going to play, I still kind of
70:01expect the Patriots to do some of this because that's what they do.
70:04And when you couple that with how well their edge guys crush the pocket, it's kind of what I said with, you
70:10know, the Rams game and the Bills. If you crush the pocket on Kirk Cousins and you hit him, he's going to leave you some dicey ones.
70:18And I think you don't want to play zone against Kirk because he'll dice you up.
70:22And so I think just how much they can get away with man, I think that kind of decides how well this game goes for the Patriots defense.
70:30I feel like it's flying under the radar. I think the Patriots defense is a step up from what it was last year.
70:36I'm curious to see what this looks like. I think it's more just that they've maintained the level we saw in the
70:42final like four to six weeks of last season.
70:45And that was my question. It's like, was that just kind of a flash in the pan or were they going to carry that over?
70:51And the fact that for the most part, I think it's fair to say they have carried that over.
70:57They've looked like that group again. And I just wasn't sure if that was going to happen.
71:01We see that all the time where we had these spikes in the back half last year.
71:06Look at the Saints defense. The Saints defense is like a top five unit in the back half of last year.
71:12What has it been this year? Like there we have these kind of false signals all the time where.
71:17All right. Is that was that real? Do we expect that to continue?
71:21And for the Patriots, I think that's exactly what's happened.
71:23One of those teams drafted Gabe Aukis and the other didn't.
71:26I'm just saying. Spent a little bit of time on Sicko Street before we get out of here.
71:31We don't have to spend a ton of time on this, but Colts Steelers.
71:35Both of these teams are two and two. But the vibes just feel like absolutely rancid in both of these places.
71:41Mike McCarthy coming out this week saying we got to clean the house up a little bit, which is just the constant dialogue I'm having with my wife.
71:49And then on the Colts side of it. Both of these teams and making the moves they did at quarterback, bringing back
71:55Rogers, bringing back Daniel Jones coming off the Achilles.
71:57You're really trying to thread a needle. You're really trying to land a plane that is difficult to land where all these other things, if they go right.
72:05Is this the right guy to kind of take us where we want to go to make it all come together?
72:11And you watch both of these offenses and just how uninspired and really disappointing the Colts passing game specifically has looked.
72:17And their returns have not been there. Like neither one of those plans is working in the way that these teams would
72:23have hoped in the best case scenario. And I think that you're really feeling that right now for both the Steelers and the Colts.
72:29I just can't think of a more sad place to be than like not bad, but without like a truly high ceiling.
72:35Like, I mean, these teams are two and two.
72:38They're capable. I mean, the Steelers beat the Bengals this year.
72:41The Colts beat the Texans. They're not bad football teams.
72:44But where is this realistically going for either of them?
72:46And that's just it's a it's a meh, bland, sad place to be, in my opinion.
72:51And it's hard to see how it gets at least, you know, at least on the Steelers side, like you have out
72:57of the four units in this game, probably the only one that's like mildly above average in their defense.
73:02You know, their defense is solid. But both of these offenses with Rogers, it's a week to week thing based on what does he want?
73:09What is he willing to throw this week? Like every now and then you get the games where he's willing to be
73:15a little bit more aggressive and he's willing to chuck it down the field or it's schemed up super well.
73:20But those games are once every three games, once every four games.
73:24And then I think with the Colts, we've seen like they can't be any of what they want to be because I
73:30don't think Daniel Jones can push the ball down the field.
73:33And even if he could, the one guy you wanted there to be able to do that stuff, Alec Pierce, is not healthy.
73:39And so when you're pushing the ball down the field to Laquan Treadwell, it matters a little bit less.
73:44It's just not the same. It's not hitting the same when when you're throwing it to those guys.
73:49And so I think the Colts have just struggled to be the offense they want to be at all.
73:55And then it just feels like with with the Steelers offense, you're just kind of spinning the wheel and hoping you come up on a good thing.
74:02Well, maybe it'll come up good this week based on Sauce Gardner's play in London.
74:06And I appreciate him saying he was embarrassed to watch the tape back because it was a it was a brutal showing
74:12for a guy that you just traded two ones for.
74:15So curious. Hopefully he looks more like the sauce they traded for in this matchup.
74:19I think that's probably if I were I think the Colts situation is bleaker than what the current Steelers situation is.
74:25Yeah, because the Steelers aren't pot committed to anything.
74:27They're not. No, exactly. The Steelers aren't pot committed to anything.
74:30They you look at what the Steelers have done, like the way that the offensive line is capable of playing the way
74:36the run game has looked the way that the defense looks like I still think I feel about the Steelers kind of
74:43exact same way I felt about the Steelers coming into the year.
74:46Like I still think there's enough to be excited about across the board with some of the young pieces that if you're
74:52looking at this on a multi-year level. I'm not I still have some hope about what this core can be for the
74:58Steelers and just with a different quarterback and just a different plan offensively.
75:02I think that's necessary. Like Derek said, I mean, if you're going to have moments like the Bengals game where there's a
75:08few schemed up shots off play action where they're wide open and he's willing to throw them.
75:12I think that coupled with the run game, there's a path there.
75:16I just don't know how willing they are to explore that path for the Colts.
75:20That young core stuff is there's not the same sort of optimism like you don't have two first round picks from the last couple years.
75:27You know, you didn't have one last year. You don't have one next year.
75:30You're paying the quarterback over the next couple years that this the regime is like running into a dead end.
75:36Like it just it really does feel like every fear you could have about this turning the wrong way for the Colts
75:42and the bets you made just not coming up in your favor is already happening.
75:46And it's just going to leave the season feeling really lifeless.
75:49And this group understanding that we've run out of road and it's time to start over.
75:54And I don't even think it's too early to start framing their season that way.
75:58Well, when the expect when you need to reach the playoffs, like I'll say it again, both of these teams will probably have decent records.
76:05You know, I mean, the Steelers made the playoffs last year.
76:08The Colts I'm less sure about. Sure. OK, even if that's true, though, I just there's talent here to win games on
76:14a week to week basis, especially in the NFL, I guess is my point.
76:18But again, when the when the mandate is to reach the playoffs for the first time in forever and this is what
76:24we've seen through the first month, it's just it's hard to drum up much enthusiasm.
76:28Yeah. If I were a Colts fan, I'd be pretty bummed out right now.
76:32Like to come down from what the first half of last season looked like to what the current version of the offense
76:38looks like with with Jones playing this way with Pierce banged up.
76:41It's just we're living in a very different world for the Steelers.
76:44We're living in the same world. I guess I guess that's where I land with it for the Colts.
76:50We've transitioned to a different place that is sad for the Steelers.
76:53We're in a very similar place that is sad.
76:55I'm going to be watching Mike McCarthy like a hawk this week after he had to apologize for what he called Aaron Rodgers.
77:02Well, which, yeah, no apology necessary. Aaron Rodgers was FFing him in the huddle.
77:06No, I know it's it's great. Honestly, I wouldn't have it any other way.
77:09All right. Let's talk about what we want to know coming out of week five in the NFL.
77:14I'll start what I want to know coming out of Bears Packers.
77:18The Packers offense was functional last week against the Bucs.
77:20Like when they played against Atlanta and this happens where it's three weeks into the season.
77:25We don't know that much about any of these teams.
77:28The Falcons pass rush. Completely dismantled the Packers on Thursday night two weeks ago.
77:31They couldn't operate as an offense. Packers go out.
77:34They get Lagan Tomlinson. But beyond the improvements on the offensive line, and it sounds like Kevin Zeitler is going to start
77:40for them this week at right guard. Not playing against the Falcons.
77:43We didn't know the Falcons had the best pass rush in the league, apparently.
77:47And so last week with no new piece on the offensive line going against a different opponent.
77:52The points weren't there because they shot themselves in the foot a couple times.
77:56Drops on third down. Fumble on the goal line.
77:58But the offense could function again. And so what does that look like a week later?
78:03Are we back in a place where you're getting enough pass protection where this isn't going to be a team that is
78:09just trying to keep itself from drowning over the course of the year?
78:12I still have questions about the ceiling of this group and just what the Packers are going to look like over the course of the entire season.
78:20But I think another week where you at least have a foundation you can stand on offensively that you showed last week, that's what I'm paying attention to.
78:27Like, where does the Packers offense land? Is it closer to the group we saw a week ago against the Bucs?
78:33Or are we still having some of the same concerns that we had against the Falcons two weeks ago?
78:38And I think that this is a defense where, relatively, it's not a pass rush that you're worried about.
78:44Dennis Allen will throw good pressures and stuff at you.
78:46But I do think that this, if they're trying to not have to face what the Falcons have been, what the Vikings
78:52have been, like not having to face that style of defense and that good of a pass rush, I do think that they have a chance to live.
79:00I think this is also like, this is a really good opportunity for, Matthew Golden has shown some flashes the last few weeks.
79:06And I do think that if they really want to get things going, I think that they're going to have to get him unlocked, probably down the field.
79:14Dave, one thing, or what do you want to know coming out of week five in the NFL?
79:19I want to know if the Minnesota Vikings can show me anything on offense in about as advantageous a situation as you could ask for.
79:26And I know Justin Jefferson's health is iffy, we'll see.
79:29Obviously, it would be a big help for them if he can play.
79:32But after what we saw Atlanta do to the Saints, Saints are 31st in the league in offensive DVO or excuse me, defensive DVOA.
79:39After what we've seen from the Saints, I just need the Vikings to do anything on offense.
79:44If I am going to believe that this 4-0 record, which we hope is a 5-0 record for them, is remotely worth trusting.
79:50Some history I wanted to look through. Minnesota scored 86 points through four games.
79:54It's the fewest by a 4-0 team since the 0-9 Broncos, who conveniently enough started 6-0 and finished 8-8.
79:59That Denver team was like top five in defensive DVOA.
80:02They were like 20th in offensive DVOA. It gave out over a long enough period of time.
80:06It usually does. It usually does. So I went back and looked at a few more.
80:11Arizona also started 4-0 despite a very low point total.
80:14They were last in offensive DVOA in 2012. Fifth in defense, last in offense.
80:17They started 4-0. Do you know what their final record was?
80:215-11. Oh, man. So it can go real, real bad for you if you don't have something on offense, no matter how good your defense is.
80:28And one more, if you're a Vikings fan looking for hope.
80:31The 0-6 Ravens. Best defense in the league by DVOA.
80:33Started 4-0. Went 13-3. Their offense was 14th. It doesn't need to be great.
80:37I need more than what you've shown. So that's what I'm watching in this game.
80:41Like, what does Kyler Murray look like? They're playing in a dome.
80:45We're not worried about the weather. Show me anything.
80:47Score a touchdown. That's what I want to know.
80:50Can you score a touchdown against the second-horse defense in the league?
80:53Before the fourth quarter. Derek, what do you want to know coming out of week five?
80:57Titans, Texans. I just want to know if the Titans will push the ball down the field.
81:02Because it's the only way the Texans have lost any of their games this year.
81:06It's by teams beating them over the head with some of their explosive passes.
81:10But this is a Titans offense that 6.6 of their throws this season go beyond 20 yards.
81:15It is the second lowest in the league. I think only the Colts are below them.
81:19The Colts beat the Texans. But the Colts, if there's anything their passing offense can do, it's worked that intermediate 11-20 yard area.
81:26I'm not sure the Titans do that as well as the Colts do either.
81:29And so I just think that this is going to have to be a game where they prove to me that they
81:35can really push the ball down the field. They've been a good pass protection unit.
81:40This is a really tough test to see if that's real or not.
81:43And so I just think that this is going to have to be a, you guys really need to push the ball down the field.
81:50And more than we've really seen from Cam Ward over the last like 12 games, let alone just this season.
81:56All right. That's all we've got for the week five preview.
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