0:00What is good? We're back. Well, Shev's Beard isn't back yet, but we're back.
0:04We're going to talk some 27 first values. We're at the point in the season where you're deciding what to do with some future picks.
0:12Obviously, you know, people have been holding on to these for dear life.
0:16We're going to talk about some possible trades to make with those firsts.
0:20We're sort of kind of more so bracketing them in early first, middle first, late first.
0:24Obviously, there's a lot of context that goes into trading and, you know, adding these parts and pieces depending on where your team's at.
0:32We'll try to touch on some of that, but we're generally going to run through sort of, you know, who's worth like an early first in 27?
0:40Who's worth a middle first? Who's worth a late first?
0:43And talk about some players that are in the news.
0:46Talk about some 26 players. So got a fun one for you.
0:49Let's talk 27 pick values. Shev, how you doing?
0:52I've been better. That's for certain. Glad to be here though.
0:55I've been waiting. Like I watch every week. So I am watching sadly while I'm working my W2 job and I'm like, damn, I fucking cooking.
1:03I want to be on here. I want to be, I want to be a part of that.
1:09I want to be in on that. I want to be able to do that.
1:13Stan Seahawks got back in the wind column. Good day for you.
1:17Yeah. Good, good. Get right game. Right. I mean, this defense is absolutely elite.
1:21Fun to watch. I started to have a minor panic attack when Sam Donald threw that pick at the end of the half.
1:28I was like, here we go again. But you know what?
1:31We held it together this time. You saw the cracks in the armor, but we made it through.
1:37Yeah. Hey, Sam Fran lost, but it's all right.
1:39We didn't lose any players in that game and we'll move on under the bye week.
1:44All right. Let's jump into 27 pick values. We've got, let's talk about, let's go early ones.
1:49And when we talk early, we're talking one through four.
1:52Right. And I almost want to take Jeremiah Smith out of this conversation because everyone, everything is going to come down to the caveat.
2:00If it's one Oh one, then I want this guy.
2:03Um, look, the way I'm looking at the early one Oh four one, one to one Oh four here is like Jeremiah
2:09Smith is essentially right now the one Oh one bar none.
2:12And he is essentially to me, like I'm, I'd put just a vague value of three firsts there to get into touching
2:19Jeremiah love or Jeremiah Smith, uh, pause rather. But other than that, I think the rest of those picks, as far as
2:26the singular early one first, I would almost put those at two, two ones.
2:30Right. Does that, is that sort of just in a grand overlay view, make some sense generally to how did his view
2:37just a very broad stroke of one for one, one, one to one for.
2:41Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we can't, if we start talking about Jeremiah Smith, it's going to be how early is he going and die to see startups.
2:49So I've seen the conversation go is like, I'll take Jason.
2:52I'll take tomorrow chase and that's it. Right. So it's like, okay, if we're talking about an asset like that, it metals the entire water.
3:00I'm going to take this as one Oh two and onwards.
3:03Yeah. Uh, so generally I just was trying to paint a broad stroke to like kind of give you a general overarching
3:10value of how I view that now that again, so much context and things go into your team, how it's built.
3:16And then your value should also be inputted into there.
3:19So, um, just to kick off our conversation on the first Zay flowers has had another great game with the backup quarterback again.
3:26Um, is, is, has he vaulted himself into these early first heights here?
3:30Like, is this out again, excluding Jeremiah Smith, right?
3:33We can exclude the one Oh one because there's not very many players that are going to hit that.
3:38So we're using early first. We're talking one Oh two, one Oh three, one Oh four.
3:43Has he gotten into the realm of that area for you guys?
3:47Or is it still not quite there? We were more comfortable with like a mid first.
3:52Uh, if, if not now, then when, what is he, what else do you have to see from Zay flowers to, to
3:58put him in the borderline near cornerstone level asset?
4:01I don't really understand what else, what else do you need to see?
4:05He's 20 with 25 years old. He's the number one.
4:08He's got the massive target share. He's basically no offense to Stan.
4:11He's basically behaving like JSN light. Like it's not, obviously it's not, I mean, JSN is JSN, but he's behaving like a
4:18true alpha number one wide receiver with that type of target share with no target competition.
4:23And he's doing it with let's to be polite, to be totally polite.
4:27It's replacement level quarterback play. Yeah. Cause I like Tyler Huntley a lot.
4:31So I don't want to, I don't want to tap on Tyler Huntley, but I mean, just imagine what this looks like with Lamar Jackson.
4:38The type of chemistry that they have, the, the way that he, the way that he was performing, I mean, five for
4:45one 50 and a half before he goes out with the hamstring injury in week one monster game yesterday.
4:51So yeah, I don't, if you're not going, if you are out on Zay flowers now, you just want to be as a flowers denier, which is fine.
4:59It's just, it's, it's a, it's a fallacy of logic at that point.
5:03And there's nothing you can do about that. Right.
5:06So again, you know, just a broad spectrum, broad brush.
5:09Like I'm saying essentially the early first excluding one-on-one, this is like two firsts for Zay flowers.
5:14Essentially, if you're buying into the, and that, I think that's a fair market.
5:18I think if you're a good team, why wouldn't you want them?
5:22And if you're a rebuilder with a surplus of picks, I don't think it's a bad move to know what you're getting here.
5:28Right. So everybody agrees that you're okay with this.
5:31Is anybody out on this Zay flowers and we'll be selling high?
5:35No. I mean, if you look at it from a roster construction standpoint, which sometimes is a good way to gauge what
5:41you're willing to give up for players. If you were a competitive team right now, and you're looking at your roster of
5:48wide receivers and Zay flowers as your wide receiver one, do you think that you can't win the league right now?
5:54I would say the answer is no. Like if he was my wide receiver one, and as long as I'm not batting
6:01with a bunch of backups, I feel like I could definitely put together a contending run here.
6:06At that point, he's got to be worth those prices.
6:09I mean, Chev maybe mentioned you guys were like a potential cornerstone.
6:13It's not that far away. Right. I think like outside of maybe Drake London, you're looking to that next range of Chris Alave, Garrett Wilson, Nico Collins.
6:21Like, yeah, is there a massive gap between any of those players and Zay flowers at this point?
6:26Not in my mind. Yeah. And I think that's a good kind of place to just kind of.
6:32Take the rest of those players and add them into this equation like you mentioned those guys like I mean, for me,
6:38I think at this point I just redid rankings and he's right there.
6:42But I think I think at this point, like I feel safer with him than almost any of those guys.
6:48I think Alave would be the out the outlier there.
6:51So let's take that group and say like Alave, would you trade Alave for these this this early these early ones?
6:58Yeah. Yeah. I'm still in on that. Yeah. So very much still in Alave and Zay flowers would be ahead or behind Alave if we're ranking them.
7:06And I'll tell you exactly. Same tier. Yeah. Yeah.
7:08I think it's like one A, one B, right?
7:11Like if I was in a startup tomorrow, I'm probably not.
7:14Let's say there's two picks ahead of me here and I need a wide receiver.
7:19I'm not trading up any more to get Zay flowers than I am to just stick with Chris Alave.
7:25But I think those are firmly at the top two of that range.
7:29And I think you've got Garrett Wilson and Nico Collins in there.
7:32But I feel better about the other two. Yeah.
7:35I don't know that I'm not I'm not giving up a high first for either of the other two.
7:41Garrett Wilson and Nico Collins right now. Nico with a little bit of age.
7:45I think he's still a really good player. I would love to add him to my team.
7:50I think he's a lot cheaper than that anyway.
7:53And Garrett just, you know, I think there's still talent wise.
7:56I think he's as good as those guys. You just need somebody to feed him properly.
8:01And he was getting there and we saw some emotion from him this weekend, which you don't see a ton from Garrett Wilson.
8:08So certainly wants to be more aptly fed, if you will.
8:11So would you guys agree that both Garrett Wilson and Nico Collins would have to drop out of this range for pick trades for 27 first?
8:19Right. Got to be lower than this. I agree.
8:22It'd be it shouldn't be. So I'm looking at my rankings right now.
8:26I have Chris Alave, wide receiver 10. Zay Flowers, wide receiver 11.
8:29There's a four spot difference between them and then a six spot difference between Zay Flowers and Garrett Wilson.
8:35So, yeah. They're all right there on the crowdsource rankings to Shiv.
8:38I mean, if you look at, you know, Dynasty PPR, Superflex, it's Zay Flowers at 30.
8:43Nico's at 35. And Garrett Wilson's at 33. Alave's probably higher than all of them.
8:48Yeah. Alave's at 25. So we have Flowers maybe in Alave, a tier elevated, and then Wilson in them.
8:54But I think Wilson and them are just generally cheaper on market to be more of the mid to late first right now.
9:00Let me put you in the hot seat. Let me put you guys in the hot seat real quick.
9:06Would you rather have Justin Jefferson or Zay Flowers right now?
9:09I think if your team's competing and winning right this minute, then you've got to say Zay Flowers, right?
9:15And he's two years younger. Right. And he's putting up points and he's doing what you want him to do.
9:21I think Justin Jefferson can have as long as a career as he wants to have and be in that realm with
9:28the guys that are doing it really well right now into their 30s.
9:32We just got to figure something out here because it's just it's not it's not the points in your lineup that you want right now.
9:39It's more like Garrett Wilson points rather than Zay Flowers points.
9:43That's what I'm saying. It's a good time to buy.
9:46Good time to buy because I have confidence in the player.
9:49But I certainly wouldn't give up a high end first for him.
9:53And I don't think you need to. But that's that's what it's going to take for from a Justin Jefferson owner.
9:59Otherwise, I'll just wait. So would so would you guys give up the high end for would you give up one of
10:05these early first for a Justin Jefferson type of player?
10:08And it's got you know, obviously, if you're a rebuilder, you're not going to do that.
10:13But if you're like, I think what you would want to be is either a middler who feels like they got a
10:20pretty good team and this could take it over the top.
10:23And I don't want to do it in the rookie draft.
10:27Or you're one of those big time contenders where this is just, you know, one of those pieces that you can just
10:33buy and and and wait on because you're luxury picking.
10:36I think out of the respect for what Justin Jefferson is as a talent, I want to say yes.
10:42Like, I still believe at age 27 here, you're going to get like two, if not three more dominant Justin Jefferson performances before it's all said and done.
10:50The question is, is that going to be in years 28, 29 and 30?
10:55Or are you going to have to sprinkle them in over time here?
10:58Because I don't exactly know what is going on with this Vikings team.
11:02They're somehow undefeated. And I'm just not threatened by them necessarily.
11:06But maybe that's me. Maybe that's me. Yeah, I'm not.
11:09I'm not threatened. I think they're kind of pretenders.
11:11But we will see. I mean, they look really good.
11:14And the record sure says they're good. All to be said, I will give up the 103, 104 for Justin Jefferson.
11:21I think if you're 102, like locked and loaded 102, it's a lot closer of a conversation.
11:26Yeah, I mean, he is right now at 18 in the overall crowd.
11:30So wide receiver eight. So it would lean to say, and if you look at the trade value tab on our thing,
11:36that he's higher than what an early first is kind of ranked in the system there, but just barely.
11:42So it's right there. But I think, like you said, you kind of got to give it to him.
11:48And I think I would. I don't have any problem with it.
11:51I think it didn't go anywhere. It just the quarterback play has hindered the upside, which is crazy.
11:57It's crazy right now. So we shall see where the Minnesota Vikings sort of end up here through another six games, because
12:03I don't think anybody would be surprised if they're six and six through another six games.
12:08But I mean, maybe we're all just a little bit of sleep here.
12:12I mean, they're winning games. They're figuring it out.
12:15They're winning games. But like, do we really think that if they went to San Francisco or Seattle right now that like it would be neck and neck?
12:23I don't know. Maybe I'm off on this one.
12:26I think both those teams are comfortably ahead of where Minnesota is at.
12:30Yeah, the X factor is Kyler. If Kyler gets on one, then he could they can beat and compete with those teams.
12:37If he's just going to be average, then no, probably not.
12:40Right. But generally what they wanted was somebody to not make big mistakes.
12:44And he hasn't made huge mistakes throughout. And it's kept them, you know, undefeated, last undefeated team in the league.
12:50Anyway. All right. Let's keep it moving here. I want to talk about Gentry before we move on into we're going to
12:56talk about some 26 players and kind of where they would bracket.
13:00Into these 27 picks. But Gente, somebody who is just week after week, just perennially getting smashed on the Twitter X.
13:06People think he stinks, that he's a bust, that he's terrible.
13:10Still, would you guys still give up an early first in the 2027?
13:14Call it 2-1-2-1-3-1-4 for Ashton Gente moving into the offseason or right now.
13:18There's only a few things I believe in more than Ashton Gentry.
13:21Kim Trails, Bigfoot, and Ashton Gente. All right. Those are like, I believe, I know what I'm watching.
13:27I know. And I know that he's not. I don't believe that he's healthy.
13:31I don't. I don't think so. I mean, love shut down right now on an injury.
13:36Probably pretty similar, right? Yes. And so, you know what this looks like.
13:40I mean, you saw flashes of it when he was healthy with one of the most putrid offensive lines that you could ever imagine last year.
13:47And an actual terrorist. Just actual terrorist, multiple members of our coaches set up shop in Las Vegas last year.
13:53So, I believe in Ashton Gente. I don't think that there's, I mean, you could see when he's able to get the
14:00ball in space, what it looks like in the receiving game.
14:03And what are we even doing? If we're going to get eight receptions from a guy, obviously that's an outlier.
14:09But if we're going to get reception utility from a guy like this with the draft capital, he's going to be valuable for fantasy.
14:17And it's a really dumb assumption to think that he can't play football and not be able to juxtapose that between, like,
14:23is he being given a chance to succeed? And is he just not able to do anything with the ball in his hands?
14:30And the answer is a resounding, yes, he can do things with the ball in his hands.
14:35No, he's not being given a real opportunity to succeed in the run game.
14:39Yeah. Stan, you want to take a shot at this?
14:42Where do you stand with Ashton Gente? Yeah, I mean, first off on the trade, it's a no-brainer for me.
14:48I'll take Gente here. I don't want to piggyback off too much of what Shev said, but, like, I think the point
14:55that he made that's astute and the real baseline of my reasoning here is, normally you see running backs come out, you
15:02know, from college and depending on their prospect profile, the question isn't, especially in Ashton Gentry's case, is he a talented enough runner?
15:09It's what is his PPR upside? Like, can he be in the Gibbs range?
15:13Exactly. Can he be in the Gibbs range, right?
15:16Like, can he catch a bunch of passes and give you this unbelievable floor?
15:20Well, like Shev mentioned, like, he's getting a crazy amount of receiving usage here, and it's probably to take some load off
15:26of the injury of the immediate contact behind the line of scrimmage or something like that, running into the back of his alignment.
15:33But through seven weeks, you've got 34 receptions here.
15:36He's had over 44 targets. I mean, it's like, my question about Ashton Gente as a prospect was, is he a good runner of the football?
15:44Like, yeah, we know that. So, like, if the receiving upside is now in his wheelhouse, then the rushing upside will come back.
15:51He didn't get worse at running the football in the last year.
15:54He's banged up. There's, you know, they're working through a new system, new coach there.
15:59The way they're going to split this time up, I'm sure, is still up to some debate for the long term.
16:05The answer is Ashton Gentry is phenomenal. And if there's a dip on him, you should buy him.
16:11Yeah, that's basically what I wanted to make sure that I wasn't taking crazy pills here.
16:15And if there is any dip and people get fed public, the court of public opinion, and there is a lot of people who are down on him.
16:24And if you're an owner and you were expecting him to just be, you know, outrageous in the, but like he's still,
16:31he's not really letting you down week over week for the most part as far as points scored, right?
16:36Whether it's one way or the other, he's getting it done for you.
16:40And that's what you want. And like you said, the PPR upside is there.
16:44That touchdown he caught yesterday was awesome. It was awesome.
16:47Well, to you two, if I came out in April and told you over a 17 game pace, Ashton Gente right now
16:54is on track for 105 to 110 targets on the season.
16:57Oh, we got GMC? Yeah, like what would you guys say?
17:01Would you be like, oh, I'm buying him as fast as possible.
17:04Right. Instead, there's negativity out there of just like that.
17:07He stinks. And like, I think there is an injury lingering.
17:11Look, the Raiders are overachieving. Generally, the offensive line still is not great.
17:15Right. They don't have a number one receiver. Brock Bowers is out there.
17:18I mean, the bills laid it out. They put their best cover guy on Bowers and then said, do something else.
17:25And now you're seeing Trey Tucker come alive a little bit, but mostly in mop up duty.
17:30And you're looking at the game log like it's just game script.
17:33He's got 15, 10, 10 and eight in the last couple of games as far as carries because they've been getting beat up.
17:40And then they're coming back. And then the end score looks a little closer than it actually was.
17:46Right. But the big thing is, is like all these people.
17:49And this is just anything else there. It's just it was your cry.
17:53I was crying for the backup quarterback. And you're always crying for the backup running back because they look explosive when they
18:00get their chances or this or that. It's just something different.
18:03And look, the reason that it looks different when Mike Washington is out there and Ashton Gentry out there, it's because it is different.
18:10Like Mike Washington is facing 17 percent of a stack box.
18:14That's the 10th lightest in the entire NFL. Ashton Gentry is facing a 30 percent stack box.
18:19That's top three to five, depending on where you're looking at it.
18:22So when you look at it and it looks different, it fucking is.
18:26That's why it looks different. And when you go back a game or two and you see the one big run that
18:33Washington had, it's through a ginormous hole. Like that doesn't happen when he's in there because everybody on that field is concerned with Gentry.
18:40That's what they're and they know Kubiak is going to use the piss out of him.
18:45Like and so they're like, hey, we're going to put this cover guy on Bowers or figure out a way to bracket him and then stop Gentry.
18:53Because the whole rest of this offense is predicated off what Gentry is doing to you.
18:58That's what they want to do. You watch them do it in Seattle.
19:02That's what Kubiak. They want to run the ball.
19:04They want to dictate what they're doing. And then they're going to they don't have JSN right now.
19:10They have Brock Bowers. And if they could get an OK receiver out there, it would open up so many more things.
19:16But like the fact that people are debating whether or not he's Trent Richardson and a bust is you're just not watching.
19:23You're lazy. You just you're just ready like you're the same people who threw JSN away to throw gente away.
19:29We'll be here to catch him with open arms because it's it's crazy.
19:33The Raiders stink. And like that's all there is to it.
19:36And like I get it. And it's the same people who don't want you to take running backs high right in the draft.
19:43And it's like, yeah, well, how'd that work out?
19:46And yeah, it took a minute for it to work with Gibbs and the Lions because they stunk.
19:51And it took a minute for it to work with Bijon and the Falcons because they stunk.
19:56But now they're both their fucking identities. That's how they operate.
20:00Like Bijon is so much of what Atlanta does.
20:03Obviously, they have a good offensive line. But like and so do the Lions.
20:07But that's what you're that's what Kubiak is going to go build.
20:10Kubiak inherited a good offensive line in Seattle that was just banged up through multiple years.
20:15They couldn't there was there were down multiple tackles for two years.
20:19It seemed like like so it's just relax, guys.
20:21Relax. Anyway, sorry. We can move on now. But I just the people the people needed to hear that case.
20:27The people needed to hear that. And the action gente folks that have got them on their trade black should probably be
20:34looking to take a car hold looking to me right now.
20:37Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, let's keep it moving. Let's keep it moving here.
20:41I want to jump into some 26 players here and because this did start off as a mock and then devolved a little.
20:48But let's let's look at the 26 receiver class and we'll we'll put them in the high in the early mid or late here.
20:55OK. All right. So let's go back when we'll do them kind of in order as they're coming off the board.
21:02Carnell Tate and Sheva, I'll kick it to you here first.
21:05Is he worth an early first in 2027, a mid first in 27, a late first in 27 or not?
21:11Where's the first in 27? Hey, I hey, you know, I'm still going.
21:15I'm still going early first. It's I mean, the shortest odds on rookie offensive player of the year, rookie of the year,
21:21offensive rookie of the year right now. And it's he's not done anything.
21:25His his beginning of his career is eerily similar, similar to Ted Rowe McMillan.
21:30And I think that it's just going to get better now that he's getting more utilization.
21:34We saw the big play down at the end of the hour.
21:38Well, you guys probably didn't see it because nobody watched.
21:41I saw it. I watched every single snap of that game bubble.
21:45Now, why would I'm hanging out with you? Yeah, because I like that shit because I want to know if Cam Ward's good or not.
21:52I watched every snap of Caleb Williams for two and a half years.
21:56Just I got Trevor Lawrence. I got to know.
21:59So so you're starting to see them move him around the formation that kept him away from Denzel Ward quite a bit yesterday.
22:06And he's starting to display the traits that you want to see in a guy that you select in a, you know, as a top five pick.
22:14So I'm still I'm still holding steadfast. I'm going early first still right now today.
22:18Stan, you came out a couple of weeks ago and had some graphs, I know, on your Twitter.
22:24And stuff of just showing, hey, all the things that you want to see are adding up for Tate and it's coming to fruition.
22:31So early, mid or late or none. No, I think you've got me on the back of the early.
22:37Like, I don't know if I feel 102. I know we're getting so granular now and I'm getting all specific.
22:43We are going to do these buckets. 102, you probably don't have me.
22:47You still do have me in the 103, 104 range.
22:50I think that's fair. What you have said and what you alluded to, right?
22:54Like so far this season, he's shown you exactly what you want to see out of a prospect that was drafted high
23:00up and is on an extremely deficient offense. Like not a good team, not good quarterback play.
23:06But even per game right now, he's averaging 4.9 reception.
23:09So, you know, you get five catches a game.
23:11He's averaging over seven targets, 7.3 targets a game, you know, 59 yards a game, which isn't exactly, you know, 100 yard games from a bunch of rookies.
23:20But this is all the signs you want to see as far as a potential breakout candidate.
23:25And so I think to re-roll would just be throwing it back into a risky realm of nonsense.
23:30Like you have a product that looks good. Just stick with it.
23:34Yeah. All right. I like it. How about Tyson?
23:37We haven't seen anything. So this one's tough. I think to just be fair, I think it's mid to late for me, right?
23:44I like the player a lot. We haven't seen anything.
23:47Go ahead, Jeff. You'd go mid, but that's as far as I would go.
23:51I mean, this is the dude who I told the reason that he isn't the wide receiver.
23:56He wasn't the unquestioned wide receiver one in the class is because of the fact that he was injured.
24:02Yeah, he was injured. Yeah. Like otherwise, it's pretty clear that there's one guy who is incredibly dynamic and we should, is
24:08like, if there's a special player, it's him, right?
24:11But it's just that he missed half of his college games and then immediately got to the NFL and was like, guys,
24:18I'm going to miss the first two months of the season.
24:21And so you those injury concerns are starting to be real, whether you want them to be or not, whether you believe in injury prone or not.
24:29What's in your face right now is that he's not playing football games.
24:33So if you want to say mid, you're banking in the injury discount.
24:37But if we're talking the highest upside, that's the highest upside swing of all the receivers and pass catchers in the draft, arguably of the last two drafts.
24:45Yeah. And we have to like, I mean, I feel comfortable with the environment, too.
24:50So that's also a plus, right? Yeah, exactly. You know, so Stan, how do you feel about Tyson here?
24:55Yeah, I mean, this is a brutal one. And I think Chev remembers from our conversations this offseason when we're chopping it
25:02up on some of the trade shows and everything.
25:05Like, I'm with him. Jordan Tyson was my wide receiver one in this class.
25:09I do think that his ceiling is immense. Now, yeah, the injury things there, the system.
25:14OK, he's got to compete with Alave. And Shook seems to like Juwan Johnson in the red zone and all these things.
25:20And I guess you could write a million different narratives to try to talk Tyson down.
25:25But I think him and Tate still, even from what I've seen from Tate, I still view him as like a 1A, 1B.
25:32Like, you could make the argument that I think Tyson has a lot better situational upside over the next couple of years.
25:39Because, yeah, like Tyler Shook is dropping back at a crazy rate.
25:42The New Orleans Saints pass offense is, although it seems they take time to get started at the beginning of every game,
25:49they are very serviceable and they are putting up serious fantasy points.
25:53And so I think from the perspective that Jordan Tyson could potentially still have a wide receiver one level trajectory, which I
25:59don't think is a crazy thing to say, just based off the talent that the injuries are in question, I would give him in a heartbeat for him.
26:08Yeah. If Velae's doing what Velae's doing, Tyson's going to be just fine.
26:12Yeah. You know, do we do? Does anyone think Velae is a unique generational athlete?
26:16Right. No, no, he's he's fine. He's fine. Probably Juwan might take a bit of a more of a hit here once
26:23Tyson comes back and maybe and maybe a lot of it takes a small hit as well.
26:28Just if if Tyson is is as dynamic as we think he is.
26:32But I agree. I think that's a great upside swing.
26:35All right. Casey just had the breakout game. Kevin Concepcion coming out here was one of my favorite receivers in this class.
26:41Finally kind of gets going in this one gets fed probably a nobody's lineup.
26:46Then they go back next week and they'll have, you know, seven to nine again.
26:50And you'll be like, what the fuck? But Casey Concepcion in 2027 early, mid late.
26:55What do we do here? I can kick us off here because I actually like think I might differ from from chef here.
27:02I'm not sure I I'm going to go late.
27:04And the reason for the late is maybe it's a crowded room argument, but it's like I still really like Harold Vennon.
27:11And I really love Denzel Boston. And so I think like from the upside perspective of, OK, we've seen a new Browns.
27:18We've seen a Browns that can win games. We've seen a Browns that actually can give you fantasy performers.
27:23And, you know, Judkins came out here even this week and gave you another 20 plus point performance.
27:29It's like, OK, well, this is a unique realm we've been in from where we've seen the Browns in the past.
27:35That all being considered. I just think because there is enough mouths to feed on this offense now and because there is
27:42enough talent there, you're not going to see as much consistency from like the potential quote unquote alpha in this system.
27:48Right. And I think we were talking about Zay Flowers earlier, but it's like, yeah, I would expect Zay Flowers to have
27:55a floor of 14 points per game. I know it's still very early for all these young prospects.
28:00We're talking about guys that are under 24 years old in that entire pass catching room.
28:05But it's like, I think you're going to have big fan in weeks.
28:09I think you're going to have big Boston weeks.
28:11I think you're going to have big KC weeks.
28:14I just don't know if I'm willing to look at any of those players.
28:18And that's even Denzel Boston included, who I really liked and went on a great stretch at the start of the season
28:25and say, yeah, this guy has a floor of 13 or 14 points per game.
28:30I think you're still just going to get these kind of like Jameson Williams style performances for any of these guys, like
28:36six points this week, 23 the next. Right. And so for that reason alone, that's why I'm going to put him in the late category.
28:44But I don't disagree that over time. And if we see some more consistency out of this Browns offense over a period
28:50of less than just seven to eight games, yeah, maybe he is a 12 point per game floor guy, you know, this time next year.
28:58Shev early, middle, late Kevin. Middle. Middle. Middle. Okay.
29:01Yeah. I mean, look, he's 30th in targets right now, but it's been the target count has been rather consistent, but they're
29:07using him like they're using him like he's Kadarius Tony instead of what he's actually capable of.
29:12So you're getting the big boy extra series usage from Boston.
29:16So that makes you that makes you assume that, oh, well, Casey's a gadget guy.
29:20This is what he this is what his is like.
29:23No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
29:26Casey is capable of everything that you see from the other from the other guys.
29:30It's just that the role that he's being asked to play is completely different than what his.
29:35It does not accentuate the the breadth of his skill set to where he's he's able to show you everything.
29:41I mean, we got a glimpse of it yesterday.
29:44He made it. He had an end around there was absolutely nothing.
29:48He just night crawled his way into like a six or seven yard game.
29:52It's you just can't like I can't tell you enough, like how good at football.
29:57I think Kevin F. Concepcion is. So I'm going to go mid just because that's where I was taking him.
30:03One oh five one oh six firmly ahead of Jadarian Price.
30:06No offense, Stan, but I like I just genuinely but I believe in the player.
30:10We got it. We were getting a little bit of a helmet discount because nobody believes in the Browns.
30:16Same thing with Omar Cooper. But I think that this if they if they're going to give him meaningful targets where it's
30:23not just throw it to him behind the line of scrimmage.
30:26He's going to be comfortable wide receiver to and move into that wide receiver one conversation pretty soon.
30:31And then we'll be having to talk about the Browns in a completely different way.
30:36Yeah, I think right now you don't have a facilitator at the moment and maybe Deshaun continues to grow into Munkin's offense here.
30:43And maybe maybe he ends up being the guy with them next year because they keep winning ballgame.
30:48But right now I don't think all three can shine week over week.
30:52And that's a really hard thing to do. You mentioned the Lions, Stan.
30:56I mean, the Bears right now can't can't quite get all three guys going as far as giant fantasy points every week.
31:03And that's unrealistic. It's just the league. And it's unrealistic to think that every player is going to score great points every single week.
31:10Like we just we need we would like to just when it's a bad game to have nine.
31:15You know what I mean? And I think Casey can do that if they're going to manufacture touches and give them the other stuff like you're saying, Jim.
31:24So I'm with you on if you get a random touchdown here and he's got zero touchdowns on the season.
31:30Right. That would dramatically raise his floor. Right. Well, just 20 and a half percent target share thus far is pretty is really good for a rookie.
31:38And I think that if if they continue to grow, like you said, if Deshaun Watson grows in Munkin's offense, that's going
31:45to raise a rising tide lifts all boats. If the quarterback is going to play better, it gives us more opportunities for
31:51these guys to actually do what they're good at.
31:54We're just they're just kind of scraping by with, you know, hey, we'll get it.
31:58We'll do this. We'll do this. There's if he takes that step forward, it's going to be better for everyone.
32:04And then we're talking about Casey and fully unleashed.
32:07And that's an early first easy because, I mean, yeah, I mean, for sure.
32:11I agree. If the talent is for a lot of these guys that we're talking about is all early first.
32:17It's just situationally. Can we get there and stay on the field?
32:21So I like that. All right. Let's go with this teammate, Boston.
32:25And I got Boston Lemon and Omar Cooper here for these last couple of receivers.
32:29So Boston early mid or late first for Denzel Boston.
32:32Without putting my own foot in my mouth, like Boston is a mid, but I like Boston more than Casey.
32:38And I just think that what this comes down to.
32:41Yeah. And I think it just comes down to the big play upside.
32:45Right. Like, you know, what I have seen out of Boston is like if he's going to play the X and he's
32:52going to be out there and he's going to get the deep shot targets and he's got the chance to take big
32:58touchdowns of the house each and every week. Then that's why I have to give him a slight boost ahead of Casey.
33:05And it's not because Casey can't do it to Shem's point.
33:08I think like, you know, he was talking about the talent level.
33:12I don't disagree with that from a, from a, you know, pure argument standpoint, like, yeah, are they equally as talented?
33:18Is one more talented than the other? Those things could absolutely be true.
33:22But in the metrics of fantasy football, if one's got big play touchdown upside that I've already seen and the other one
33:29doesn't yet, then that's the reason I'm leaning. Right.
33:32And this could change dramatically. Right. Like over the next eight weeks, if Casey Conception comes out and has a bunch of deep touchdowns and whatever, then.
33:40Well, I'll, I'll, I'll walk with this all back, like, like a nice and comfortably.
33:44But for now, Boston, Boston's going to be a mid for me.
33:48Jeff. I'm comfortable with moving in from late to mid.
33:51Yeah. I think I would. Yeah. Go ahead. No, looking at the, I'm just looking at, I'm on, I'm on that one website that Scott Barrett has.
33:59And it's, I mean, 19 to 20% target share for between Denzel Boston.
34:03Okay. The biggest difference is just the amount of air yards and the way that they're using Denzel Boston.
34:09It's 17 yards of reception, 16 and a half yards of reception to 10 yards of reception.
34:14And again, that's, or excuse me, a dot 16 and a half to 6.7 for Casey.
34:18It's, it's just a, I mean, Denzel Boston's dominating the air yard share.
34:22So to your point, Stan, you're absolutely right. The, the, the points have flown his way for the majority of the time
34:29because he's getting those big, deep down the field shots.
34:32And he is an outside, you know, for a fact, there's no question right now today, you can stick him out there
34:39at X receiver and he can go score points, put them on the backside of formation and say, Hey, go win against this guy.
34:46Ironically enough, he did, he did not win. And that's what led to a pick yesterday for Deshaun, but he's got everything
34:53that you want in everything that you wanted to see from his skillset.
34:56Cause there's sometimes there's big stiff guys who can't, who can't separate and all this other dumb stuff that people make up
35:03when a guy's big, but he's done everything. He's passed the eye test.
35:07He's passed the production test. So it's just a matter of, it's just a matter of like, Hey, what, what, where, what's the ceiling at this point?
35:15And I don't think we can answer that question for, for any of these guys.
35:20I don't want to take us on a rabbit trail either here, but I am curious specifically to you two, like, you
35:26know, you guys and I were talking early in the season.
35:30I actually believe it was preseason about Tedderall McMillan, potentially getting more usage in the slot.
35:34And that dramatic dramatically, you know, raises his, his floor and even his ceiling.
35:39Right. Like, I guess where do you land in the whole Boston conception fan and thing, as far as like, well, if
35:45Denzel Boston is mostly going to line up on the outside, like, and probably not get worked in too much into the
35:52slot over the next couple of years, because of the other weapons they have, like, does that come into play with the way you're evaluating them?
36:00As far as prospects go and what you're willing to pay for them in dynasty at this current point in time?
36:06I don't, I don't, I don't think so. I, I liked, because I liked Tedderall McMillan in that kind of power slot role.
36:13And I think Denzel Boston could have played that.
36:16I just, I think he is just a better, like profiles better as the, just a straight up go out there and do your thing.
36:23And I think in that division, having a guy out there who can go out there and be that, that X receiver
36:30and go just be that and go be a big target for somebody.
36:34I don't know that it really changes all that much.
36:37I mean, I guess from a volume standpoint, it, you know, that's kind of why you like it with Ted is because
36:43it could potentially secure some more easy, easy layups for you, which, you know, that seems like they'll probably go to Casey and Fannin.
36:51But I think there's going to be enough red zone potential for Boston that I don't know.
36:56I don't know. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm, I don't shit.
36:59What do you think here? Cause I feel like I'm rambling a little bit as I'm sorting this out in my brain.
37:05There's going to be enough pie to go around for everybody.
37:09No, I genuinely believe that. I think that. So the beauty of this is that Denzel Boston has such a rare skillset
37:15and being able to come in day one and you line him up against the best corner and say, go win.
37:22And that he's going to be able to score fantasy points, no matter what, it's almost like waterproofing him.
37:27It's just, Hey, we don't have to hide. We don't have to hide this dude from anybody.
37:32We can line him up here. If we decide that we want to move him around, like he's can't, he walked in
37:39the trap and took over Jerry Judy's Jerry Judy's role without question.
37:43And I think that you're going to be able, because these guys are, are good at football.
37:48They're high and they're high caliber, high IQ players.
37:50You're going to be able to interchange them a bit.
37:53Harold fan is one of the most productive tight ends in history.
37:57One of the most productive tight ends in NFL history as a rookie.
38:01So I think that as they grow, Todd Munkin clearly is a, is a brilliant offensive mind.
38:06It's not just that he had Lamar. It's, he is a brilliant offensive mind.
38:10He's getting the best version of Deshaun Watson that we've seen.
38:14We haven't seen this type of guy since Houston.
38:16So I think that the skill sets are going to allow them to be able to deploy them in ways that they
38:23can all succeed, even if it's in very different ways.
38:26And we just like, we're seeing that. Yeah. Yeah.
38:29It might lower the ceiling for all three, but the floor is going to be so much safer, especially if Deshaun Watson,
38:35like we said, I know it's, it's a big if man, you know, and we're relying on him to stay away from
38:42the massage parlors and all that stuff. But we're, we're talking about the offense being a lot better than we expected.
38:48That's an uncomfortable thing to say about the Browns.
38:51Yeah. Right. Right. No, that's a good question though.
38:54But yeah, I like both of those guys. I've got them ranked back to back right now, as far as a ranking of Boston and Casey, right.
39:02An overall wide receiver ranking. So I think they kind of one goes with the other and they're going to go as the Browns go.
39:09And right now it's the Browns goes pretty, pretty solid way, way better than we thought.
39:14And I think this whole thing of just us doing this and, and the, and why we were going to do the
39:21mock and then it devolved into sort of this is just a reminder of all off season, what you heard and what
39:27the reality is right now of these receivers. And like some of the ones that you didn't even care about, you know,
39:34at the beginning of this cycle, lemon was the best one for sure.
39:38And then, you know, as it went on and on and on now, like, Hey, we're all right.
39:43Next question. Lemon early, middle or later. None. Oh, I'll, I'll, I'll rip off the bandaid here.
39:48I'll, I'm going to go late. I'm going to go late because I'm definitely not in the range of thinking.
39:54Mekhi lemon is like some second round rookie pick value.
39:57Now that all being said, like, I don't feel good about it.
40:01You know, like he's almost in that range kind of that we talk about during the off season of like the Jameson
40:08Williams type players where it's like, if I own him, I'm not selling him for a second.
40:13But if I don't own him, I don't want to buy him for a first.
40:17Like that's where I'm sitting with Mekhi lemon right now.
40:20I would almost say none. I like buying him.
40:23I don't know if he costs even a late first anymore.
40:26If people want to just get rid of him.
40:29And I think we will, and we'll touch on it in a minute, but I would almost, this is like a two twos maybe even.
40:37And I'm still buying him. I'm not, I'm not out on him.
40:40I still think he's good, but. Yeah. I'm not sending a first form today, but I own enough Mekhi lemon that if
40:47someone came into my inbox with two twos, I'd say kick rocks.
40:50Like, I'll just see what I got. All right.
40:53Listen up, pal. Listen up, pal. All right. We, this was in the back of my head.
40:58I felt like this was the worst possible landing spot for Mekhi lemon.
41:02He is getting Matthew golden into the upside down right now.
41:06And what we need to do is we need to let this bottom out.
41:10I'm taking him. I'm still going to take him with a late first because here's the thing.
41:15We know he can play football unless he is just the biggest bust known to mankind.
41:20I refuse to believe that everything that we saw from him at USC, being able to move from being a primary slot
41:26guy to being an outside, to being able to align outside the contested catch prowess, the toughness after like the toughness with the run after the catch.
41:34He's not being used. He's being used again. I hate to pick on my guy, Kadarius Tony and his Megan Fox thumbs,
41:41but he just isn't being used in a way that's going to transform.
41:45He's not turning into any sort of fantasy points.
41:48And for all the geeks out there that are just like, well, it's not turning into his not actually doing anything.
41:54So clearly he's not good. And 60% of the time, if you don't produce 525 yards in your rookie year, you're never
42:01going to be more than 10 points a game.
42:03Look, go by Mekhi lemon. If, if for some reason they're able to remember why they drafted him, this is going to,
42:10this is going to hit like prime Mike Tyson.
42:13He's just not being used in a way that we can rely on anything.
42:17So it's going to be really bad. You're going to have to default to your priors.
42:22There's going to be some jack wagon that comes into your DMS is like, well, just throw him a guy limited and
42:28you're going to have to say, no, I don't want to.
42:32Yeah. I don't, I believe in Mekhi lemon. So yeah, I'm still sticking with the late first.
42:37If you, if you think that he's, he slid out of the first round, that's, that's crazy to me.
42:42Yeah. That's just abandoning the, you're abandoning the evaluation based on the outcome and not just, you just got to have a little bit more poise than this.
42:51Well, and it's just the, it's, it's it cause it hasn't, it won't sort of thing.
42:56And look, we thought jets and Browns were going to be terrible case scenarios.
43:00And, and, you know, there was some concern about the Eagles there, but the Eagles are, are awful right now for one reason or another.
43:07Um, that's just, again, just a reminder. And that's why I kind of wanted to do lemon here.
43:13Cause it's just like, I, we all think the player is still good.
43:17We're all still interested by him. If you can don't sell them for too cheap.
43:21So let's move on to Omar Cooper real quick.
43:24And then I do want to touch on Luther burden and then, uh, one running back before we talk quarterbacks and in the show.
43:31So Omar Cooper early, later, neither right now. It's it's, it's, it's going to be late for me.
43:37Uh, but man, is it encouraging, right? I mean, the, the, the reason why there's even some skepticism here is just the efficiency rate that we're looking at.
43:45So 12 receptions on 13 targets, his average depth of catch is 20.7 yards.
43:49Also has the two touchdowns on top of that.
43:52He's got a 92% catch rate. Um, you've only seen it on a short period of time.
43:57Now, uh, if you were a huge believer in his prospect profile, I'm sure you're taking victory laps like crazy these last two weeks.
44:04Um, and for that reason, I don't think the efficiency numbers are going to stay where they are today.
44:10Uh, all being said though, like, yeah, late first round pick, like, sure.
44:14You want to roll the dice again, or you want to take a guy that's already showing you a good amount of promise and limited sample size.
44:22I've got to be honest, guys. I thought there was going to be more neither or more none or pushing guys even
44:29further down because of the 27 class feels like you guys have.
44:32Everyone is maybe just a little tempered on the 27s.
44:35I would say, I would say none just because I think that there's a really good chance that I get, you know, a solid quarterback.
44:43I like at this, at this juncture, again, not an indictment on the, on the, uh, player at all.
44:49Like I like Cooper. I defended Cooper plenty in this off season.
44:52She has on the way back over there. Um, I think he's a lot of fun.
44:57I think he's a good player. I think we're seeing good stuff from him.
45:01Um, I w I think I would take the end of the 27 right now off of, um, the efficiency that you're getting from Omar Cooper.
45:09I think he's going to be just fine though.
45:12Shev, what do you think? Right now today, if you need points in your lineup, the, everything that he's shown you.
45:18So there's, there's guys who have to be manufactured touches.
45:21And then there's guys who generate explosive plays. You can, uh, an explosive play guy, like the first catch of Omar Cooper's career went for 30 yards.
45:29And then he went and then he went to IR and then he came back and he caught a 40 yard touchdown.
45:36Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's just once as an accident, twice as a trend thrice.
45:40And you're just, you're just living in denial. So he's showing you who he is.
45:45That's what I'm saying. Like I, I, I was a big Omar Cooper believer.
45:49He was my wide receiver five, just behind Casey, right.
45:52Just ahead of Denzel Boston. Right. So I have no reason.
45:55I have no reason if I was taking him in the, in the late part of the first round, if I was
46:02taking them one 10 to one 12, I'm cool with doing that here as well.
46:06Especially, especially if I'm trying to, if I know that I'm going to go make a run for a championship this year, I would send this off.
46:14And I don't think that one, as long as you keep Gino Smith upright, Casey, we've all said, like, we've said this time and again.
46:22Okay. Stan, you can, you are witness to it as a Seahawks fan.
46:26As long as you keep them upright, he's one of the best deep ball and most accurate intermediate and deep ball throws in the entire NFL.
46:34And there are stats to back that up. So I think that this is going to unlock something within their offense.
46:40And then you can still throw the ball to him and let him generate yards after the catch stuff.
46:46So the skillset is translating to what the team needs and what he actually, what he's good at being utilized in that manner.
46:53So I'm going to, I'm rolling. I'm going, I'm going late.
46:56The thing was, is I think he had, he had both parts of the skillset, but the thing that people had seen
47:03most recently was the manufactured touch yak kind of stuff.
47:06Whereas before that he had some deeper, like the way he was used was different than what he was, the way he
47:12was used in the prior year to them, obviously being, nobody was paying any attention to fucking Indiana two years ago, at least normal people were.
47:20And then the first time they see him, he's doing more manufactured yak stuff for that team.
47:25Where as before that he had, he was a deep threat.
47:29He could do, you know, Like lined up 85% outside in 2024.
47:32The loss to Notre Dame in the playoffs where he was, he was a 19 yard per catch receipt, like receiver.
47:38And then they moved him into the slot. And then he was doing more of that stuff.
47:44And it's right. It's like, man, it's both. Yes.
47:46Except instead of us saying, wow, this is a guy who had demonstrated ability at both positions.
47:51We were like, well, he's only a slot guy and he's a manufactured touch guy.
47:56So I don't know if I like him. Yeah.
47:59No, I think, I think he showed you already in the NFL that he can do both of those things too.
48:05Like the first catch he had was a yak catch.
48:08He's had some bombs now. So this is all good stuff for Omar Cooper.
48:12Let's hit one more receiver and then we'll move on to.
48:15Some, some quarterback conversation to end. Luther Burden had a breakout game here in the first half.
48:21So is Luther Burden a early first, a mid first or late first right now in 2027?
48:26Stan. You just, you always set me up for the burden haters to just like come track me down all over the
48:32internet because you know, I'm just, I'm still not a hundred percent bought in and sold on like Luther Burden is this
48:39like premium dynasty asset you have to own. I mean, like you mentioned that the first half was awesome.
48:45I am a hater. I think I am like, I am like a coined Luther Burden hater now, but you mentioned it well, right?
48:52Like the first half was awesome. It was great.
48:55He didn't see anything. The second half, like he just, he evaporated from the game.
48:59And that's not saying that like, you know, some other game he can do nothing in the first half and then come on the scene for you.
49:07The second half, it's just like, I'm yet to see the usage for Luther Burden as far as, you know, snap rate,
49:14opportunity share, all the things that come down to it to warrant the kind of prices I see him go for on the dynasty market.
49:21Now, if we're within a realm of reality here and we're all playing in like a league economy of people that aren't
49:28delusional and suddenly willing to pay three firsts for so sorry, I'm going to throw some strays out there.
49:34It like not willing to pay two, three firsts for an unproven player that had a good five game stretch at the end of the last season.
49:42Like, yeah, yeah. I'll give you a late first for Luther Burden.
49:46That's totally fine. Like a mid first, I think, I think is, I think it's a fair argument.
49:51I think it's a fair argument. I think you could probably get a player in the mid first round that sees as
49:58much opportunity, if not more than Luther Burden. Now, is he going to do as much as Luther Burden's doing with it?
50:04Does he have the Ben Johnson name and the Caleb Williams name and all this stuff behind him that gets everybody excited?
50:11I don't know. But yeah, I'm still at a late first.
50:14Like, I'm definitely not giving up the 104 or 105 for Luther Burden right now, but you guys can flame me and all the comments.
50:22I mean, look, if you want to make the argument for Roma Dunze versus Luther Burden, like Roma Dunze still had more
50:28opportunity share in this offense this year than Luther Burden has.
50:32He hasn't been as efficient with it, but like, well, what, what Rome is doing in this offense right now is pulling gravity.
50:38That's what he's doing. That's what Roma Dunze does in this offense.
50:42There's way more gravity towards what Roma Dunze is doing in this offense than anybody else.
50:47Right. For sure. Regardless of what you think of Roma Dunze as a player, right?
50:51He he's kind of sets the rest of this, the table for, for this off.
50:56At least that's kind of how I've taken away from it.
50:59So Shiv, you can either add onto that, but then where is Luther Burden in the hierarchy of early mid or first
51:06picks for you here in 27, man? Listen, I'm going mid first for Luther Burden because the skillset, the skillset is so tantalizing.
51:13And to your point, to your point, Rome is Rome is the table setter.
51:17Rome is the guy that makes that. Hey, if we have to line Luther Burden up against Christian Gonzalez, do I think it's going to go really well?
51:25Very often? Probably not. But if we're moving him around, we're getting, we're giving him the opportunity to catch and run and
51:32display the yards after the catch, the, the ability, the stop, start ability.
51:36And yeah, I'm, I'm rolling Luther Burden and let's say that he was in a different, let's say he was in a
51:43different environment where he was going to get 120 targets.
51:46What do you think would happen? The type of efficiency that he's displayed, what do you think happens?
51:51Do you think it's more wide receiver three with wide receiver two upside?
51:55Or do you think he's probably top 10 to 15?
51:58I would guess top 10 to 15. So, and we know that things change rapidly in dynasty.
52:03So I would, I would bet that he's going to, he's going to continue to thrive.
52:08So I'm going mid first. I've seen it. I sinked it.
52:11And I'm, I'm really, really, really excited about it.
52:14Yeah. I would, I'm, I'm there with you. I'm, I can give the mid first for, for, um, Luther Burden of just,
52:21you know, being somebody who can catch some, catch some volume here and there and be pretty efficient with it and break some big ones.
52:28Um, before we move to the quarterbacks, cause I think it's a fun conversation to end with.
52:33Um, Stan, you had mentioned Hampton. We had mentioned Hampton a few times and he's, you know, part of that 26 class
52:40that we were going to have this conversation with is a Mario on Hampton.
52:44Somebody as a contender, if you have the, the, the late first that you would be willing to still purchase, or are
52:51you guys out, out on the chargers and Hampton?
52:53Obviously not, if you're a contender, not looking on Hampton to necessarily do anything for you now, it'd be a luxury buy, um, per se.
53:01And if it works out, it works out at the end of this year after they simplify things.
53:06But is Hampton worth spending some future capital on right now, or are you trying to let the bottom fall out even further?
53:13Well, this is a really good question that we talked a little bit about pre-show because I'm seeing a ton of questions
53:20come my way of like, Hey, I've set my team up.
53:23Well, I have three 27 firsts. Like someone's willing to just get rid of Hampton for what I think is going to
53:30be the one 11 right now, because it's on an ultimate contending juggernaut.
53:34Should I just do it? Like, what are the odds?
53:37And I think in that specific circumstance, yeah, I will give up a late first for Hampton.
53:42And knowing what I know there, I think if you only have one 27 first, and that's potentially your best bargaining chip
53:48of either the end of the season to push your chips in as a contender, or to maybe, you know, use in
53:55a, in a big blockbuster to retool your roster, come the off season, say you win the league or, or come close,
54:02then it's a no, because I think at least from where we are today, I think Hampton's value can go lower.
54:08Like people are always like, it's bottomed out. It can't go any lower.
54:12I don't think so. I mean, if it continues the way it's been right now towards the end of the season and
54:19you haven't seen any change, I mean, can you even like justify sending a mid 27 second for Hampton?
54:24Like probably not. Right. Hmm. What'd you think, Shep?
54:27I mean, Stan saying pull over. I don't like, we can't pull over anymore.
54:31I think, but I, I genuinely think that it could get worse.
54:35It can get worse. I just like, that's the, that's the, it now is not, this is, this is almost, this is
54:41a sunk cost season for the chargers. And while I don't think that they'll move on from him, it's not going, I
54:48don't think it's going to, it's going to rebound in a, unless they make a slam dunk higher as you know, as
54:55the offensive coordinator, or if they move on from khakis Harbaugh to hire these wonder kids like Grant Udinski or Declan Doyle
55:01goes and gets, you know, goes and gets a head coaching job, then I, I just don't see one.
55:07If you're a contender, you're buying him and in the hopes that it returns on value, but you could just go get
55:14someone right now that might not be getting the opportunity that you know is going to, that you feel better about their prospects of ascending.
55:21So I would not buy him right now. All right.
55:24All right. Let's end with this. And we don't, it doesn't have to get too, too deep, but Stan, you kind of brought this up.
55:32We've been thinking about it. There's a lot of quarterbacks in the 27 class.
55:36Or at least proposed quarterbacks right now is if, if we move forward with it.
55:40And there's been some rising and falling and guys up and guys down.
55:44But when you look at the overall landscape of it, there, there's going to be an influx next year in the first
55:51and the second round of, of picks. And there's, you know, there's some QB opening spots.
55:56You have the Steelers that we don't know exactly who's going to be.
56:00We think maybe somebody on the team, but jets are, are one that they don't have a quarterback dolphins, maybe Cleveland, potentially Indy.
56:07Um, absolutely. And Tennessee, Tennessee question mark, Philadelphia question mark, Arizona, Minnesota question mark.
56:11Um, and now, you know, some of those teams won't necessarily be picking.
56:15It doesn't look like Cleveland is going to pick super high.
56:18Steelers aren't going to pick high, but they might, they think they, maybe they have a guy, um, jets maybe will be
56:25probably potentially mid pack, but they've dropped a couple of games here recently.
56:29Indy could dismantle and be lower. Um, so generally with the landscape of quarterbacks and, and how much is coming in and what's going to change next year?
56:37Is there any buys or sells at the quarterback position that you guys would be interested in on?
56:42Like, I mean, we, you guys were, we were just talking about LA and Herbert, um, you know, Hertz is out right now.
56:49Um, is there anybody who you think is going to be really affected by the landscape change that you would either want
56:56to get in or get out on general thoughts on how this 27 class will impact, uh, the quarterback position in the NFL.
57:03Now the issue, the issue is that we were promised this incredible quarterback class headlined by Arch Manning.
57:08Now the hopes are resting on Dante Moore, who's currently hurt drew Mestemaker potentially.
57:13Now everybody sees there all of a sudden, everybody sees it back week one.
57:17You guys were shitting just shitting bricks because he didn't play well.
57:20So, I mean, I love you. You guys know that.
57:23So, uh, he might not even come out this year though.
57:27Neither could Arch. So then we're left with so many more questions.
57:30Darian Mensah. I don't, I like Darian Mensah if he goes to Arizona or the dolphins or the jet, like it's all
57:37of the guys that could be affected by this or guys that aren't, you're not having to pay premiums for the guy who gets probably squeezed by this.
57:45The worst is Kirk cousins. Hmm. Like the, the, the sneaky, the sneaky vets, the Geno Smiths, the Kirk cousins.
57:51I think Malik Willis, if they continue to stink it up, they're going to, they're going to try to move on.
57:58Cause I mean, 67 million total, I believe is not a huge number.
58:02So they can have another quarterback on that roster and keep them.
58:05Yeah. And I mean, he could be, he could be, but those are the guys that get squeezed more so than the,
58:12the Hertz's of the world, even though for some reason people think that, well, I guess he doesn't have any guaranteed money after this year.
58:19So that's, that's the biggest, that's it. Herbert's not going anywhere where we let's, let's not be silly guys.
58:25Unless you request a trade, he's not going or doesn't want to play anymore, which I don't think that that's necessarily.
58:31I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true either.
58:35I was just a, that is a, a magnitude of ineptitude that I didn't realize was possible with what they're doing right
58:41now, but it's not, it's not a reflection of how good he is at quarterback to be honest with you.
58:47Is he playing bad? Yes. But also he's very good at football.
58:51The biggest, like Hertz is the biggest domino that has to fall with what the organization does with him or what, what
58:58transpires with his health over the course of the next nine months or so.
59:02So that's, that's the biggest one for me. I don't think any, any of the other spots, I don't think that, I
59:09don't think that we're going to move on from cam ward regardless of how this goes, unless you just go one in
59:1516 and he just regresses to just being a turnover machine and doing his best Nathan Peterman impersonation.
59:21So, yeah. I'm looking, I'm looking at Casey's Casey's direction with that Niners hat on right now and saying, I think the
59:27guys that affects the most are your potential like QB rehab, you know, second chance guys, Mac Jones being the guy, right?
59:34Like I thought for sure, Mac Jones is going to get a starting job in the NFL coming out this next season.
59:40Now, if a ton of people dip on quarterback, then maybe Mac Jones is less.
59:45That's going to have to be the Cleveland's, the Minnesota's of the world who price themselves out of contention for a top
59:52end pick and then just go buy the quarterback in the, but probably still get a good deal on it.
59:58So it could, could have good roster construction and in a way, if you feel confident about that, maybe a better way to go.
60:05But sorry, Stan, go ahead. No, no. It's just like, I think those are the most interesting guys of like, are they going to be worth anything?
60:13I know, you know, we, we've just mentioned Mac Jones.
60:16I think JJ McCarthy ironically is like kind of playing himself into that conversation right now.
60:21Like I always thought like, okay, he'll come in.
60:23If he's flashes for a game or two here, you know, then the off season, the giants might be able to sell them for more than a fifth.
60:32Right. And, and they still got dart on their roster, but it's like, well, uh, I, no, I'm not, I'm definitely not
60:39saying that McCarthy's out playing dart right now, but he's definitely not looking bad.
60:43Like I'll, I'll give them that much. Um, and, and then I think, you know, you saw a short stint of it
60:49at the beginning of the season, but like, are the drew locks, Jacoby Brissett's of the world, like going to have any
60:56place in this league after this next draft class, depending on how many quarterbacks we do see come out.
61:02I think those are the ones that I'm more worried about maybe than the big names.
61:07Yeah, no, I think, you know, what'll happen is, is I think the guys like Gino, Jacoby, Kirk, those are going to
61:13be the guys who went all the chairs, musical chairs ends.
61:16Um, and somebody gets left in the cold without a guy that they feel great about.
61:21They'll, they'll just go there again, you know, and, and play for, play for them.
61:26I mean, is there any world though, that Pittsburgh here, like they just don't seem like they want to really do the young quarterback thing.
61:33Like, are, are they not the prime candidate to pick up one of those quarterback rehab guys and enroll with him?
61:40Just like they had Rogers because they don't think they're that far away.
61:44I mean, they're five and two right now with a 42 year old man.
61:48Like if they win a lot this year with the roster that they have, I mean, they're pretty old.
61:54Um, they're all oldest, you know, but, and maybe at some point they just say, Hey, we're going to reset.
62:00But if they, if things go well, I mean, they could do that again.
62:04I think they feel pretty good about the two guys they have there and Howard and Aller, as far as bringing them along and giving them a chance.
62:12But, you know, could, could Kirk cousins come in there for a season next year?
62:17Um, I don't think it'll be Mac Jones, but maybe, I mean, Pittsburgh doesn't like to be unstable.
62:22You know, I think I'm just going to throw it out there.
62:26And I know maybe last night made some other people feel a little bit better, but like guys, I, I think there's
62:32a very real world where Sam Darnold is not the starting quarterback for the Seattle Seahawks next year.
62:38And if you're talking about like, what's the implication of quarterbacks, that should be one of the top ones.
62:43And I don't say that because I dislike Sam Darnold or I think the organization dislikes Sam Darnold or whatever, but I
62:50think you saw drew lock be super efficient in that short game stretch.
62:54You see how elite this defense is. They're going to have to extend him this off season.
62:59If they want to, I mean, technically he's got a year left on his deal, but I would doubt he plays on
63:06that, you know, in the current quarterback landscape and like if the turnover problem persists, which I know we won last night,
63:12but like, again, I had a short palpitation of, is this going completely back the other direction when Sam Darnold throws that
63:19pick at the end of the first half? And like, he has still been unable to eliminate turnovers from his game.
63:25I think there's a very real world where like the organization looks at him at the end of the year and goes,
63:32I mean, you've already got eight interceptions on the season.
63:35You don't think of Sam Darnold, you know, which he's on track to right now, throws 16, 17 picks this year.
63:41And somehow it ends up being the downfall of the season that the Seahawks this off season don't look at a different quarterback option.
63:49I do. Yeah, I think, I think there's going to be some later.
63:52I think there's going to be a volume of quarterbacks and like you said, maybe some of them end up going back,
63:59but like, I think there'll be a volume of quarterbacks on the later, lower first, early seconds that are possibilities that are
64:06kind of fun guys that could, you know, we were talking about the other day, the dude from SMU, Kevin Jennings.
64:12Yeah. Like he's not a first round player, but like somebody he's interesting.
64:16Right. And he could, you know, he could be somebody Daniels, that thing up for sure.
64:21Right. Yeah. Last question. And we'll get out of here.
64:24I know this wasn't like following along of exactly what we were doing today, but I thought it was a good bit of a conversation.
64:31But like, do you think the Ravens are getting a little tired of Lamar Jackson?
64:36Like I, I hate this is not a conversation I like to have.
64:40And I think it's a little silly, but like, I don't know.
64:43It seems like he should have fucking played this week.
64:46And I can't tell you who's healthy, who isn't healthy.
64:49I just feel like a lot of quarterbacks play when they're not a hundred percent.
64:54And I feel like Lamar is almost refusing to play if he's not a hundred percent in some weird way.
65:00Is there any, either one of you feel, I don't know.
65:03It just feels weird at the moment with Lamar Jackson and I've championed this guy.
65:08I think he's awesome. Like I am not trying to in any way, shape or form throw any shade necessarily, but as
65:14the organ, it's already been a little weird him in that organization.
65:18Like, is there any chance that Lamar Jackson is, is an, and Jalen hurts are on a different team next year.
65:24Yeah. Yeah. It's possible. I mean, you could see that NFL turn into the modern day NBA and everyone's swapping players every year.
65:31But, um, I will say I wasn't as worried about Lamar Jackson.
65:35I, he definitely has had his struggles with the injuries here, but like, if you do pull up quarterback average value right now, right.
65:42For contracts, you are looking at a list and I'll just read it of, you know, Patrick Mahomes is at top.
65:48Then you got Dak Prescott, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence, Jordan Love, Baker Mayfield, Matt Stafford, Jared Goff, Brock Purdy, Justin Herbert.
65:55Then you have Lamar Jackson. I would say for like when Lamar Jackson is playing at his ceiling level, which is league
66:02MVP, you have him on a pretty good deal here.
66:05I mean, he falls outside of that top 10 of highest paid quarterbacks and like, you're going to have other quarterbacks get
66:12paid this off season, I'm sure extended again. And so how much further does he fall down that list?
66:17Now I'm not telling you that like the injuries aren't a problem or maybe there's some other conversation going on there, but
66:24I would say objectively the value you're getting out of Lamar at that cost is bare minimum fair, if not pretty good value, right?
66:31Like you'd be hard to argue that you need to pay Dak Prescott 10 million more a year than Lamar Jackson, even
66:38though I know Dak's been more available this season.
66:40She have final thoughts and we'll get out of here.
66:43I think this is just a, this is just a case of him not playing within the sandbox that the organizations and the, the back, the backroom handshakes.
66:52He doesn't have an agent. He's not there negotiating.
66:55He's negotiating basically for a new contract. So he's saying, look, I'm not healthy.
66:59I'm not gonna go out there and potentially destroy my future earnings.
67:02And you don't want, you're not committing to me long-term it's business that's being played out in a very public perspective.
67:09And you only get to hear one portion of the story.
67:12So I think that, yeah, it's gotten weird with the organization before.
67:16It's probably going to get weird again when we enter into these, these talks, they'll probably refuse to play on a franchise
67:22tag and hold out or do whatever the case may be.
67:26I mean, we saw last year that he requested, I mean, we saw, excuse me, during the last negotiation, he requested a
67:32trade and no team was willing to trade for him.
67:35And so you can see that there's some sort of, there's some sort of media presence that covers Lamar Jackson in a
67:42much different way because of the fact that he doesn't have the media of your agent coming out and putting out the
67:48positive propaganda and then maybe, maybe defending him or painting the portrait in a different light that you would see from several
67:55other quarterbacks that are represented by the Drew Rosen houses and the David Milliguetas and all those guys.
68:01So it's a, it's a little weird, but I mean, he's just, he's protecting himself and looking for, looking out for his best interest in that.
68:08When it doesn't, when the best interest of the player doesn't align with what the best interest of the organization is, it's
68:15always going to look a little weird. And that's just kind of my opinion on it.
68:20Like you said, nobody's carrying water for him as, as they say.
68:23Right. And it has been weird before. And so that all good, well-rounded points there.
68:28All right. We'll wrap this one up. We'll be back tomorrow.
68:31Me and Stan are going to talk about some mustaches and some cheap buy lows for your pleasure.
68:37You can catch Stan at the Dynasty price check on Twitter or anywhere you can find stuff.
68:42You can find Shev anywhere. The FF Dynasty is download the league champ app.
68:46If you haven't, we'll catch you guys next week.
68:49Peace.