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12 biggest fantasy storylines heading into training camp

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

1 hr 26 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jul 24, 2026
Published
Fri, July 24, 2026
59
Player insights
38
Players mentioned
Topics
Christian WatsonJames CookJayden ReedMatthew GoldenJaylen WaddleBucky IrvingChris RodriguezCourtland SuttonJosh JacobsMakai LemonRomeo DoubsSaquon BarkleyBrian Thomas Jr.Caleb Williams
Player analysis

Player insights

59

Brian Thomas Jr.

NegativeRole46:00

Thomas is being deployed as the X receiver in the Jaguars' McShay-style offense, which typically involves more vertical routes and deeper role; this differs from his rookie season when he operated more as an off-ball player with yards-after-catch opportunities, creating uncertainty about whether his role will support his fantasy upside despite strong OTA performance.

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Bucky Irving

NegativeRole71:42

Kenneth Gainwell's addition to the Buccaneers narrows Bucky Irving's role significantly. Irving loses goal-line work (retained by Sean Tucker) and pass-catching opportunities to Gainwell, who offers both rushing and receiving upside. The backfield is now a 1A/1B hot-hand situation. Irving's profile—a shifty, smaller running back with five games of 15+ rushing attempts in his rookie season—suggests the Buccaneers are concerned about workload durability. Harmon worries the team won't lean into giving Irving a big workload, making him more of a boom-bust RB3 similar to JK Dobbins' role (two-down grinder between the 20s) rather than a league-winning asset.

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NegativeInjury71:42

Todd Bowles initially stated Bucky Irving might not return until summer or fall, causing concern among fantasy players. However, Irving recently told local reporters he will be present for the start of training camp, alleviating immediate injury concerns. The bigger issue is role uncertainty due to Kenneth Gainwell's addition rather than Irving's health status.

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Caleb Williams

NegativeProjection59:00

Williams is not the most accurate passer, especially downfield, and Ben Johnson wants to add structure to his out-of-structure tendencies; this favors quicker throws and receivers like Luther Burden who operate in short-area routes, while deeper-route specialists like Roma Odunze may see reduced effectiveness.

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Chris Brooks

PositiveRole28:08

The Packers have expressed interest in implementing Chris Brooks more into the offense, suggesting increased opportunity for the running back in the team's backfield plans.

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Chris Rodriguez

NegativeRole71:00

Chris Rodriguez has very few receptions in his career, limiting his pass-catching upside compared to Basil Tootin. While Rodriguez could be a value pick in the seventh round at his current ADP (round 10-11), he lacks the receiving profile needed to be a league-winning fantasy asset. Harmon characterizes Rodriguez as a 'small win' rather than a 'big win' in fantasy drafts, making him less attractive than Tootin despite potential availability.

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NegativeInjury71:00

Chris Rodriguez underwent offseason foot surgery during the offseason, with local Jacksonville reports indicating the procedure occurred. Speculation suggests it may be a Jones fracture, which has historically caused significant production drops for players like Desmond Bryant, Sammy Watkins, and Julio Jones when returning mid-season. The injury raises questions about Rodriguez's availability for training camp and his workload management early in the season.

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Christian Watson

NegativeProjection1:48

Christian Watson received a big contract from the Packers and is a focal point of the new 11-personnel, tempo-based offense; however, there is debate in the fantasy community about whether he is an 'explosive play merchant' or a complete receiver who can fit into an offense and execute all route types.

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NegativeUsage2:12

Christian Watson averaged 2.67 yards per route run when Romeo Dobbs was on the field in 2024, dropping to 2.19 yards per route run when Dobbs was off the field; this suggests Watson's efficiency may be impacted by the loss of Dobbs and the Packers' receiver rotation changes.

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PositiveRole21:36

Watson's best usage comes when operating as the Z receiver on the move rather than as a stationary X receiver; when paired with Romeo Dobbs (the sacrificial X), Watson averages 2.67 yards per route run and is targeted on 25% of routes versus 2.19 yards and 17% targeting when Dobbs is off field. The key to Watson's upside in 2024 is whether the Packers deploy him in the Z role that suits his skill set, which remains unclear heading into training camp.

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NegativeRole25:41

Matt Harmon expresses concern about Christian Watson's role in the Packers offense, noting that Watson was primarily used as a movement Z player last year. Despite Watson's higher route depth, Harmon is worried about what the Packers might do with Watson's role going forward, making him less bullish on Watson compared to Jaden Reed.

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Courtland Sutton

NegativeRole34:00

Matt Harmon is fading Cortland Sutton's situation due to uncertainty around the Broncos' wide receiver three role. If Pat Bryant becomes the WR3, Harmon believes Bryant's intermediate route tree (not a deep receiver) will push Sutton deeper downfield, potentially limiting his role compared to a scenario where Troy Franklin (a vertical receiver) is the WR3. Harmon projects Sutton at approximately 750 yards and five to six touchdowns, but notes the ceiling is difficult to project given the environmental uncertainty around the receiver room composition.

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NegativeRole49:09

Zane Dahani notes that Sutton has been Denver's prototypical versatile receiver, deployed at all three levels of the route tree. Dahani wrote about Sutton in his route-depth article and observes that Sutton operates best at intermediate and deep levels as a big-body receiver. Sutton's role is being contextualized as Denver adds Jalen Waddle to the offense.

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D.J. Moore

NegativeRole60:00

Moore was placed in an odd role that didn't necessarily fit the Bears offense last year; with Luther Burden now having a more distinct slot role, the Bears can better distribute targets and roles among their receivers.

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Denzel Boston

NegativeRole55:00

Boston is viewed as the big-bodied receiver the Colts want to deploy, competing for playing time with Josh Downs, Isaiah Bond, and Jerry Judy; the team may use 12 personnel packages, creating uncertainty about target distribution among the pass-catching group.

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DeVonta Smith

PositiveProjection0:36

Matt Harmon is 'really into' Devontae Smith and projects him to outscore Makai Lemon in roughly 8 out of 10 season simulations, indicating strong confidence in Smith's production despite the Eagles' offensive overhaul.

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Isaiah Bond

NegativeRole55:30

Bond has looked good for the Colts and is competing for playing time in a crowded receiver room; he could swap between slot and Z receiver roles, but his exact role and target share remain uncertain heading into training camp.

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Jalen Hurts

NegativeRole0:05

Hurts will operate under center and run more play action in Philadelphia's new offensive system, a significant departure from his previous role; the offense will attack the middle of the field more and employ a wide zone blocking scheme on runs, requiring Hurts to execute concepts he hasn't regularly performed before.

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James Cook

PositiveValue1:24

Zane Dahani prefers James Cook over Saquon Barkley in the second round due to higher ceiling upside; Cook is close to Barkley in ADP but offers more explosive potential.

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PositiveRole66:22

Pete Carmichael's hiring as offensive coordinator signals a shift toward increased pass-catching usage for Cook; Carmichael has a history with Alvin Kamara and LaDainian Tomlinson of deploying running backs in pass-heavy roles. Cook's college profile lends itself more to pass-catching than rushing. Current route share sits around 30-35%, but Carmichael's past schemes feature 50-60% route share for primary backs. Adding 1-2 targets per game while losing 2-3 early-down rushes would net approximately 1-2 additional fantasy points per game, elevating Cook to roughly 20-21 PPR points per game—a top-three running back pace. If Cook reaches a full Kamara/LT-style role with 60% route share, Matt Harmon would draft him as RB3 over Jonathan Taylor.

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PositiveProjection67:11

If Cook's receiving role expands as expected, his fantasy ceiling rises significantly. Matt Harmon's math shows that adding 1-2 targets per game while losing 2-3 rushes would result in approximately 20-21 PPR points per game in full PPR, which would have ranked as RB5 last season but Cook is currently going at RB6. Harmon emphasizes Cook has a solid floor from rushing alone, and the pass-catching upside makes him a critical player to monitor heading into training camp.

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PositiveRole68:00

Pete Carmichael's hiring as offensive coordinator is bullish for Cook's pass-catching role; Carmichael has a history of involving running backs in the passing game (Alvin Kamara, LaDainian Tomlinson), and Cook's college profile lends itself more to pass-catching than his current usage, suggesting increased target opportunities.

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Jayden Reed

PositiveRole1:48

Jaden Reed received a big contract from the Packers and is expected to expand beyond slot-only usage; both analysts believe Reed can run outbreaking routes, corner routes, and deeper patterns similar to Makai Lemon, and they would like to see him get more opportunities beyond traditional slot receiver duties.

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NegativeRole25:00

Reed's fantasy outlook may improve in 2024 due to the Packers' offensive changes; the new coaching staff wants to play with more tempo, avoid rotating players out, and stay in 11 personnel to keep Reed on the field as a dominant pass catcher. This represents a more favorable deployment scenario for Reed compared to the past two seasons.

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PositiveRole25:06

Matt Harmon expects Jaden Reed's route participation to increase from approximately 65% to around 75% as the Packers emphasize 11 personnel to keep Reed on the field as a dominant pass catcher. The team's preference for tempo and staying in 11 personnel rather than mixing in 12 and 13 personnel should create more favorable fantasy opportunities for Reed compared to the past two seasons.

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PositiveProjection25:41

Matt Harmon is bullish on Jaden Reed at his current draft cost, citing concerns about Christian Watson's role and the likelihood that Reed will have a shallower route depth than Watson. Harmon also expects increased target volume naturally flowing to Reed in situations where the Packers play from behind or in chaos, beyond just explosive plays. He views Reed as a buy-back candidate after last year's injury-plagued season.

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Jaylen Waddle

PositiveValue47:53

Matt Harmon is bullish on Waddle's ADP, noting his price was cheaper multiple weeks prior but is starting to rise. Harmon compares Waddle favorably to Chris Olave at similar draft cost and flags him as a league-winner candidate. Harmon emphasizes Waddle was overshadowed by Tyreek Hill in Miami but is a talented player in his own right with significant opportunity in Denver's new offensive scheme.

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PositiveRole48:20

Zane Dahani reports that Denver's new offensive coordinator Davis Webb plans to deploy Waddle in short-area and intermediate routes—screens, drag routes, and slants—rather than as a deep threat to take the top off the defense. Dahani wrote about Waddle in his route-depth article and notes this deployment aligns with Denver's offensive preferences. Dahani is excited about the usage patterns emerging from camp.

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PositiveProjection48:51

Davis Webb, Denver's new offensive coordinator, compared Waddle to Stefan Diggs when Diggs was traded to the Bills in year three of his contract—a year-three receiver on a second contract who is a proven talent that people still underestimate. Harmon made this same Diggs comparison when the trade was announced and views it as validation of Waddle's upside in Denver's system.

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Jerry Jeudy

NegativeRole56:00

Judy is expected to be the Colts' wide receiver one but may not finish with the team's top statistical output; he'll operate between slot and outside positions, similar to how the Ravens use Zay Flowers, creating a more distributed target share in the offense.

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Josh Downs

PositiveRole53:30

Downs is being deployed in motion and outside in two-wide-receiver sets, which could allow him to lead the Colts in targets; his route share has historically been in the 60s, and this new usage pattern—getting him off the line of scrimmage—could significantly boost his target volume and fantasy upside.

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Josh Jacobs

NegativeRole1:48

The Packers are shifting to a more 11-personnel, tempo-based offense that may lean more on Jordan Love's passing game and take some pressure off Josh Jacobs, who is getting older; this represents a potential decrease in Jacobs' workload compared to previous seasons.

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NegativeRole27:57

Matt Harmon identifies Josh Jacobs as having multiple question marks heading into training camp: an unresolved legal situation, knee injuries from last year, age concerns, and the Packers' stated interest in implementing Marshawn Lloyd and Chris Brooks more into the offense. Harmon views Jacobs as part of a broader uncertainty across the Packers' skill position group.

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Kenneth Gainwell

PositiveRole71:42

Kenneth Gainwell is positioned as the better fantasy pick in the Buccaneers backfield compared to Bucky Irving. Gainwell offers both pass-catching and rushing upside, with demonstrated ability as a runner for the Steelers (better than Rashad White). He was paid good money by Tampa Bay, signaling organizational confidence. Gainwell's receiving profile makes him valuable in pass-down situations, and he's going at a similar ADP to Basil Tootin. Harmon prefers Gainwell's cost-to-upside ratio over Irving's limited role.

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Kenneth Walker III

PositiveValue1:24

Zane Dahani prefers Kenneth Walker over Saquon Barkley in the second round due to higher ceiling upside; Walker is a talented running back in an Andy Reid offense that historically produces elite running back value (Damian Williams, LeSean McCoy, Jamal Charles), though he needs to be in a featured role.

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Luther Burden

PositiveRole57:00

Ben Johnson's public endorsement of Burden as a dynamic playmaker who breaks tackles and can be trusted in short situations is bullish; Burden fits better with Johnson's structured offense and Caleb Williams' preference for quick, accurate throws, making him a more favorable fantasy option than Roma Odunze despite higher ADP, though he needs to expand beyond designer routes to meet expectations.

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Makai Lemon

PositiveRole0:06

Lemon is expected to operate as the Z receiver to start the year and move to the slot in 11 personnel; Matt Harmon believes the Eagles' new Packers-style offense with outbreaking routes off play action aligns well with Lemon's skill set, particularly on sale concepts and explosive plays from both Z and slot positions.

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PositiveProjection0:36

Matt Harmon projects there is a scenario where Makai Lemon could outscore Devontae Smith this year if he hits the ground running; Harmon estimates this outcome at roughly 2 out of 10 simulations, acknowledging it's not zero but unlikely given his preference for Smith.

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MarShawn Lloyd

PositiveRole28:08

The Packers have expressed interest in implementing Marshawn Lloyd more into the offense, suggesting increased opportunity for the running back in the team's backfield plans.

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Matthew Golden

PositiveSleeper1:48

Zane Dahani views Matthew Golden as a dart-throw value pick in the Packers' new 11-personnel, tempo-based offense; despite a mixed rookie year statistically, Dahani saw film evidence of Golden being open frequently with Jordan Love missing him, comparing the situation to Quinton Johnston's rookie struggles and noting that receivers develop at different rates.

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NegativeRole2:00

Matthew Golden is expected to be the number two outside receiver for the Packers in 2025, likely ahead of Jaden Reed; Matt Harmon believes Golden would have to 'absolutely flop in camp' to lose this role, indicating he is the presumed starter at that position.

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PositiveRole23:00

Golden could assume the sacrificial X receiver role in the Packers offense, which would free Christian Watson to operate as the Z receiver on the move. Golden showed decent release moves against press coverage last season, which could make him effective in the X role. The key question is whether Golden or Watson ends up as the X versus Z receiver, which will determine both players' upside.

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PositiveValue25:51

Matt Harmon likes where Matthew Golden is going in drafts and views him as cheap enough to warrant a shot, though Harmon is more bullish on Jaden Reed at cost.

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Parker Washington

PositiveRole47:00

Washington is positioned to operate in the slot with a run-after-catch emphasis, similar to how Liam Cohen deployed Chris Godwin in 2024; he has elite ball-in-hand talent and could exceed Godwin's yards-after-catch production, making him one of two potential 1200-yard fantasy breakouts for Jacksonville alongside Brian Thomas Jr., though his exact route depth remains uncertain.

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Pat Bryant

NegativeRole34:00

Matt Harmon discusses Pat Bryant as a potential wide receiver three for the Broncos whose role definition will impact both Cortland Sutton and Jalen Waddell. Bryant is characterized as an intermediate-route receiver, not a deep vertical receiver, which would affect how the Broncos distribute targets among their top three receivers. The specific role Bryant assumes will dictate whether Sutton gets pushed deeper or maintains intermediate-route opportunities.

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Rashod Bateman

NegativeRole66:00

The Ravens are still counting on Bateman and will evaluate his performance in training camp before making final decisions on the Diggs signing; Bateman's role and health remain uncertain, but the team is not abandoning him.

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Rome Odunze

NegativeRole59:00

Odunze's role emphasizes deeper routes and verticality, which is less ideal for Caleb Williams' accuracy limitations and Ben Johnson's preference for quick throws; his role is less favorable than Luther Burden's despite being a better overall football player, and weather concerns in Chicago late-season could further limit his deep-route effectiveness.

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Romeo Doubs

NegativeDepth Chart1:48

Romeo Dobbs was let go by the Packers in the offseason as part of their receiver rotation overhaul; his departure is notable because Christian Watson's efficiency (2.67 yards per route run) drops when Dobbs is off the field, suggesting Dobbs' presence had a positive impact on Watson's production.

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NegativeRole21:36

Dobbs functions as a sacrificial X receiver in the Packers offense; Christian Watson averages 2.67 yards per route run when Dobbs is on the field versus 2.19 when off the field, and is targeted on 25% of routes with Dobbs on field versus 17% when Dobbs is off. The theory is that Dobbs occupies the stationary X role, freeing Watson to operate as the Z receiver on the move.

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Saquon Barkley

NegativeRole0:54

Barkley faces uncertainty in Philadelphia's new zone blocking scheme, which differs fundamentally from the man-gap scheme he ran under Jeff Stoutland; zone blocking requires different vision and cutback lane recognition, and Barkley reportedly consulted Todd Gurley for feedback on operating in this system, raising questions about whether he needs external guidance to adapt.

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NegativeValue1:24

Zane Dahani prefers James Cook and Kenneth Walker over Barkley in the second round due to higher ceiling upside, though Barkley remains a solid second-round floor play with known production; the choice depends on whether you prioritize floor (Barkley) or ceiling (Cook, Walker).

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Savion Williams

NegativeRole1:48

Savion Williams was drafted by the Packers as a wide receiver but profiles as a project player similar to Jaden Reed; he is not expected to contribute significantly in the immediate term.

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Sean Tucker

NegativeRole71:42

Sean Tucker retains goal-line work in the Buccaneers backfield, limiting Bucky Irving's scoring opportunity. Tucker's role as the short-yardage specialist is expected to continue, further narrowing Irving's path to fantasy relevance.

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Stefon Diggs

NegativeRole63:00

Diggs remains unsigned with five options on the table; Commanders and Ravens are the two most likely destinations, with Commanders at 50% probability and Ravens at 25%, plus a small chance of Rams or other teams; if he signs with the Commanders, he could be a high target-earner over Terry McLaurin, while a Ravens move would be cleaner from a fantasy perspective with Zay Flowers as the clear top tier.

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Terry McLaurin

NegativeRole65:00

If Diggs signs with the Commanders, McLaurin could see reduced target share; Diggs' operating style and route tree could make him the higher target-earner if both receive equal routes, though McLaurin remains a solid option in the offense.

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Travis Hunter

PositiveRole49:00

Hunter's presence on the field reduces target opportunities for Jaguars pass catchers; he had his best game on film before injury last year, but the team's usage of him as a receiver rather than in his optimal role limits his fantasy value and impacts the target distribution for other receivers.

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Troy Franklin

NegativeRole34:00

Matt Harmon identifies Troy Franklin as a potential wide receiver three for the Broncos who operates as a vertical receiver. In contrast to Pat Bryant's intermediate route tree, Franklin's vertical role would allow Cortland Sutton to maintain more intermediate opportunities and Jalen Waddell to focus on short-area touches. Franklin's specific route profile is relevant to how the Broncos' target distribution shapes up among their top receivers.

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Tucker Kraft

NegativeInjury27:00

Tucker Craft is coming off from injury and is part of the Packers' pass catcher group that has multiple question marks heading into training camp.

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Zay Flowers

PositiveRole65:30

If Diggs signs with the Ravens, Flowers remains the clear top-tier receiver in the offense; Diggs would be a complementary piece, making the Ravens move cleaner from a fantasy perspective with Flowers maintaining his primary target role.

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Full transcript

Episode Transcript

798
0:00Big show for you here today. Zane Dahani of Fantasy Points has been grinding the news.
0:05I'm telling you, this guy has been consuming more NFL news than you possibly could have imagined over the last couple of months.
0:13And that is why he joins the show today to let you know 12 storylines.
0:18He has been tracking the drum beats from OTAs into mini camps as we get into training camp here.
0:24The 12 storylines you need to be paying attention to.
0:27We talk Jags backfield. We talk Bucks backfield. We talk offensive ecosystems in flux in Green Bay, Philadelphia.
0:33And much more. All that and more come up on today's show.
0:37Let's get into it. What's going on, everyone? I'm Matt Harmon.
0:41Welcome to the Yahoo Fantasy Forecast. And it is a hell of a day to talk ball.
0:46And joining me to do just that is a first time guest here on the program.
0:51Somebody I've been very excited to have on the show because he is a young man who has been as deep as
0:59anyone could possibly be into the NFL news the last couple of months here, I would say.
1:04That is Zane Dahani of Fantasy Points. Zane, what's going on, buddy?
1:08What's going on, man? This was something I was super excited to do, man.
1:13There's been so much news out there. And then you're a film guy.
1:17I feel like I've been a little bit of a film guy, too.
1:21And then adding the analytics on top of that.
1:24That's why I was really excited about this conversation, because all the information that we hear coming out of like OTAs and
1:31what teams want to do, all the offensive coordinator changes, role changes for receivers, running backs.
1:36I just feel like there's the application of what that may actually end up looking like.
1:42And your perspective is something that I just have always valued so much, especially when it comes to the receiver stuff that
1:49you have done with Reception Perception and then here on Yahoo as well.
1:53So I'm excited. I think this is going to be an awesome show for us to talk through all those role changes and offensive dynamics.
2:01Well, you're far too kind and I appreciate it, but I shouldn't box you in.
2:06You're right. It's just as a news guy. And I'm not going to do that here because you're a great analyst in your own right.
2:14You had a really great piece up recently about like route depth and how we kind of think about that.
2:21And we might reference that at some points during the show about how it's actually the shorter routes that can be better
2:28for you in fantasy football than some of the deeper, like longer breaking ones.
2:33It doesn't actually increase your ceiling as much as people think like, oh, these deep threats, you have this higher ceiling.
2:40Not so much, which I think is a great article that people should check out on Fantasy Points.
2:46So, yeah, Zane is not just deep into the weeds with the news.
2:50He's also grinding the film. He's grinding the stats.
2:53And that's why I think this is going to be a great show.
2:57What we're going to do today is look at the 12 biggest fantasy storylines and questions that Zane thinks you guys need
3:04to be paying attention to as we're moving from OTAs and minicamps into training camp.
3:09And Zane, the point and thesis of the show here is that and we were joking about this before we got going here in the green room.
3:18We were joking about the fact that I've said on the show the last month or so that, oh, well, whatever.
3:25Listen, a lot of stuff happens in June. Most of it doesn't matter.
3:29And I may or may not have been saying that because I was on vacation drinking wine in Portugal and not hosting the fantasy football show.
3:38That was Justin Boone. Shout out to him for holding it down for me.
3:42But we both know that's actually not true. Like sometimes there are things that happen in June that it's the little drum
3:49beats that you want to track into training camp.
3:52So that's what we're going to try to do today for the people.
3:57We're going to get these 12 storylines that you're tracking the drum beats from early in the offseason and what they're developing
4:04into here as training camps are opening up as we speak.
4:07Before we get to the show, though, before we get into this here, I do have one promo here to announce a big announcement here.
4:15Yahoo Sports and Cameo just teamed up and now you can get a celebrity to announce your draft order from right inside the Yahoo Fantasy app.
4:24No more random number generators is just you, your league and a celebrity.
4:28And shout out to kick off the season right.
4:31Join a league right now to access Cameo through the Yahoo Fantasy football app.
4:36Sign up in the Yahoo Fantasy app or at yahoofantasy.com slash football.
4:40Yes, get a celebrity to announce your draft order.
4:43A pretty exciting shout out available for you there.
4:46But let's waste no more time. Let's get into it, Zane.
4:49Our first storyline in the first segment here, we're going to talk mostly overall ecosystems.
4:54We're starting in Philadelphia. What is the first storyline that you think people should be tracking here in training camp?
5:01Yeah, this is roughly a completely new offensive system that they're going to be running here in Philadelphia.
5:07So we're talking about going under center for a guy like Jalen Hurts.
5:11We're talking about doing a lot more play action, attacking the middle of the field.
5:16Things that you don't necessarily see when you watch the film from the Eagles in the history with Jalen Hurts.
5:22And then on top of that, they're talking about how they're going to shift their offensive system to more of a wide
5:29zone offensive attack from a rushing perspective. There's just a lot of nuance there.
5:34And then you talk about the faces that have left, too.
5:38We're talking about A.J. Brown. A.J. Brown's no longer on the team.
5:42Then they've brought in Dontavian Wicks. They have Makai Lemon, who they added to the team.
5:47So there's just a lot more nuance to this team here in the offseason that I think is something that we need
5:54to pay attention to and figure out, hey, what's going to end up transpiring?
5:59There's different coaches in here. There's a new system.
6:01Are they going to run more 12 personnel? And really, is Makai Lemon even able to play and operate in a two-wide receiver look?
6:09So I keep thinking about what this offensive system is going to look like and who's going to benefit from those situations
6:17and whether Jalen Hurts can actually operate in that kind of system where he's under center, doing play action, forced to throw
6:24over the middle of the field, stuff that we haven't seen from him before.
6:28I was curious, your take, actually, especially on the Makai Lemon component where it's like, can he actually operate as an outside receiver?
6:36Or does he need to be in a unique situation, kind of more like a Z, where he plays off the line
6:43a little bit, they get him in motion so that he doesn't have to get jammed at the line of scrimmage, things like that.
6:51And then, like, how does that fit with the stuff that Jalen Hurts does?
6:55I don't actually think it's a perfect fit necessarily, but I was curious, your take.
7:00Yeah, and you're right. This is a massive overhaul that Philadelphia is undergoing here, and I think it has been a little bit under-discussed.
7:08Probably, actually, I would say from a real NFL perspective, it's probably been very well discussed that this is going to be a big transition for Jalen Hurts.
7:17But I think from a fantasy standpoint, even if you just look at the ADPs, most people are pretty convinced that it's going to work out.
7:26So it's good to examine this idea here, and especially as it comes to Makai Lemon.
7:31And Boone and I were talking about him on the show we did earlier this week.
7:36And, I mean, I think if he hits the ground running, there's a chance that he could actually outscore Devontae Smith this year.
7:44I'm not going to project it that way because I'm really into Devontae Smith.
7:48I think it's only, as we said earlier this week, it's only probably to me, like, if we sim the season 10
7:56times, it probably only happens two out of the 10 times.
7:59But that's not zero times. And I think one of the reasons I'm really excited about Wicks and Lemon kind of working
8:06in tandem together as sort of what I would imagine is the Z receiver to start the year, and then, you know,
8:14Makai Lemon, when they get into 11 personnel, he'll be the slot.
8:18I think this offense, Zane, you know, watching the Green Bay Packers the last couple years, I think that's what this offense is going to look like.
8:26They're really good at working these outbreaking routes off play action, which especially to, like, the Z and slot receiver, you think
8:34about a lot of sale concepts there. That, to me, does really overlap with, one, what Jalen Hurst does well, and two,
8:41what Makai Lemon can do from, I think, both the Z receiver position and certainly from the slot.
8:47Like, some of these bigger outbreaking routes where you're getting explosive plays.
8:51So, I think there are ways in the passing game it can end up working out.
8:56I actually think for me, and I'm curious your opinion on this, the guy I've had the toughest time figuring out in this offense is actually Saquon Barkley.
9:05And that might sound stupid because, like, Saquon Barkley, great running back, whatever, but it is a big overhaul from a run game perspective, too.
9:13I don't know what you thought about Barkley as an individual talent last year, just when you've watched him and everything.
9:20But, you know, Jeff Stoutland moving on as the offensive line slash run game coordinator can't be overstated here as well.
9:27So, Barkley, to me, has been a tough guy to rank in fantasy this year.
9:32Where do you stand on Barkley and just him from a fantasy standpoint?
9:36Yeah, the interesting thing with the offensive line, too, is that everybody's learning a completely new scheme.
9:42And sometimes I feel like we may underrate that, what that means for people, especially guys like Elaine Johnson, who's been around for a long time, right?
9:50Like, now we're being asked to do a zone blocking scheme, and that's not something that these guys have necessarily had as much experience doing.
9:59And then you're talking about the same thing for Saquon Barkley.
10:02Zone blocking versus man gap scheme type of runs are completely different.
10:06We're talking about there's a designed hole from a man gap perspective versus a zone blocking scheme where you need to be
10:13able to sift out where the blockers are and figure out your own cutback lanes and different things that really, truly, like,
10:21challenge you from a vision perspective and make sure that you have, like, the true, like, running back, like, I don't know,
10:28I want to say, like, qualities that allow you to say, hey, I see this big hole.
10:33I'm going to make the cutback, and I'm going to turn that into a big play.
10:39There's more onus on the running back themselves in that situation.
10:42And Barkley talked about how he, I think he talked to Todd Gurley about this, actually, because he was talking about how
10:49this is more similar to what the Rams were doing when Todd Gurley was there.
10:54And he was trying to get, like, feedback and takes on, like, how am I going to, like, operate in this situation?
11:01You know, some people would say, hey, that's great that you're reaching out for feedback.
11:06But the other part of me thinks, like, is it really that nuance to Saquon Barkley that he really needs to talk
11:14to somebody else and, like, figure out how to operate in this scheme?
11:18So I'm a little bit worried. And then the Stoutland thing, like you said, is not something that I think people are properly baking in.
11:26The offensive line had so many injuries last year, but now we get maybe a healthy offensive line.
11:32There's still a lot of guys that are old, so you could see them still get injured.
11:37But then on top of that, we're talking about a new offensive line coach who may or may not resonate with the rest of the team.
11:46There's been good feedback, but players have good feedback for coaches all the time.
11:50You know, that's something that we hear in the offseason.
11:54That's June. Like, that's a June headline. Like, players like the coaches.
11:58Yeah, of course they like them in June. Let's get into training camp and let's get a couple losses on the season
12:05and kind of see what happens there. So, yeah, no, I think this is one.
12:10In some ways, Zane, I don't want to overthink it because Barkley's a really good player.
12:15I think even still is a really good player.
12:18They have at least, you know, Landon Dickerson's healthy now.
12:21Lane Johnson's healthy right now. Jordan Mailata. Like, that's three of the best offensive linemen in the NFL, period.
12:27Like, even outside of position and everything, that's three of the best offensive linemen in the NFL.
12:33So, I don't want to overthink this too much.
12:36And yet, a big part of, like, round two in fantasy this year is breaking ties.
12:41And I just look at, you know, Saquon Barkley versus, like, Derrick Henry.
12:45Saquon Barkley versus Kenneth Walker. And, you know, some of the things you mentioned there about him fitting into his own running scheme.
12:53And Barkley's always been a great player, but he's always been a little bit of a home run hitter, right?
13:00Like, he's typically been a guy that, well, he'll give you some strikeouts, but he's going to grand slam and home run some of these runs.
13:08So, when you're looking at him in the second round versus any of those running backs and even some of the really
13:15good receiver picks, I mean, George Pickens, Tee Higgins, I mean, certainly Drake Lund and everything.
13:20Where do you, like, is there a teardrop between some of these guys and him, or is he still kind of solidly in your second round range?
13:29He's still in the second round range, but it's one of those things where it's like, okay, who am I actually comparing him to 1v1?
13:37And are there guys that have pass-catching upside that could, like, somewhat, quote-unquote, break fantasy in some ways?
13:43So, a guy that's really close to him in ADP is James Cook.
13:48And some of the news, and we're going to talk about him later, but James Cook is an interesting guy as well
13:55because of some of the things that they may do with him this season.
13:59I prefer a James Cook over him. Then Kenneth Walker.
14:03We're talking about a situation with Andy Reid offenses where historically, before Isaiah Pacheco, they used to print money at the running back position.
14:10Damian Williams had value. LaShawn McCoy, Jamal Charles. I mean, those are some, you know, obviously elite names and things like that too.
14:18But I think Kenneth Walker is a very talented running back.
14:22He just needs to be in more of a featured role.
14:25So, you can make the argument that a guy like Kenneth Walker, James Cook, those types of guys maybe should go above
14:32Saquon Barkley because they have a higher ceiling. But then again, Matt, a lot of times you have to sit here and
14:40think about it and say, you know what, this guy has that production that I just, I know from a week-to-week perspective,
14:47this offense is going to lean on the run and they have the offensive line.
14:52You just got to take him. So, I'm not trying to play both sides, but it's like, it depends on what you're looking for.
15:00If you are looking for like a floor play, and especially you don't want to lose a draft, like this would be
15:07an easy kind of pick to say, hey, I'm not going to lose the draft if I take Saquon Barkley.
15:13Well, I think we're talking about a staff mock draft that we did here at Yahoo.
15:19We did it yesterday. I think we're talking about it on the show probably sometime next week, although I'm not sure off the top of my head.
15:27But I think it's really easy to get behind at running back if you don't look at some of these guys in
15:35the second round and you kind of look at some of these receivers.
15:39So, I definitely think after that exercise, I'm probably actually bumping Barkley up my overall ranks, even if, yeah, there are some
15:46running backs that I'm considering over him. But, yeah, bottom line, when we're talking about drum beats to track, this is one
15:53of the offense, one of the offenses, like, I can't wait to see what you uncover from a news perspective about them in training camp.
16:01Because right now they're doing the fun thing where Nick Sirianni's comparing Don Tavian Wicks to Keenan Allen.
16:07And like we're saying, they're getting all excited and everything.
16:11But I would love to see, like, what are the reports about how Jalen Hurts looks in the passing game?
16:17What does the run game look like as it's coming together?
16:21This is going to be one of the more interesting ones to track.
16:25So is the next team that we're going to talk about here.
16:29We're going from a team that is installing a Packers-style offense to the Green Bay Packers themselves.
16:34What are you looking at from the Packers offense, what you've seen so far in June and obviously as we get into training camp here?
16:43So this one's interesting because I feel like I've listened to you on this topic before where they say, hey, the Packers
16:50are a team that typically likes to rotate receivers.
16:53They don't give anybody more than, like, a 75% route share.
16:56I think last year was, like, one of the first times, I think Christian Watson, when he played.
17:02And that might have been out of necessity. They had some injuries and different things like that going on.
17:08But all of the reports out of camp are, hey, we're ripping this offense down to the studs.
17:14What we want to do, we kind of cleared the runway for a guy like Matthew Golden.
17:20We got rid of Dontavian Wicks. We let Romeo Dubs leave.
17:23We didn't really add any depth. Obviously, we have Savion Williams as our wide receiver for who we drafted.
17:30But he's still kind of like a project type of player, too.
17:34Someone that profiles more as, like, almost in a Jaden Reed-esque type of situation.
17:38And so now we're saying, like, hey, we want to do a more 11 personnel, play with tempo.
17:44We might want to lean on Jordan Love some more in terms of passing the ball, take some pressure off of Josh Jacobs.
17:52He's getting older. I think that this is a really interesting situation with the pass-catching group because they drafted Matthew Golden in the first round.
18:00Jaden Reed just got a big contract. Christian Watson just got a big contract.
18:04And every single person in the fantasy world, there's just such varying opinions on Christian Watson on whether he's just, like, this,
18:12like, explosive play merchant or if he can actually fit into an offense and do some of the little things as well.
18:19Jaden Reed, obviously, being more of a, you know, historically, sometimes I've seen a little bit more like Mickey Mouse stuff that's still one of your words.
18:28But I actually think he's got, like, some, you know, wide receiver chops too where he can run some of the normal routes and stuff too.
18:36He worked a little bit deeper last year too when I was reviewing the film.
18:41And then Matthew Golden, just a mixed bag. You know, his rookie year was not something that I think from a statistical standpoint, anybody really, really liked.
18:50But there were times on film for me when I watched it, he was open.
18:55And Jordan Love missed him. And that happened too many times, in my opinion.
18:59So I kind of compare the Matthew Golden situation sometimes to what we saw from Quinton Johnston as a rookie, where it's
19:07like, maybe this wasn't necessarily the right, exact right role for him.
19:10But, and then everybody kind of, like, turns their back on a player.
19:15What I want to say is, like, receivers don't all grow at the same time.
19:20You know? Sometimes it takes some players to marinate.
19:23And you know that better than anybody else. In year two, what if he adds some extra tricks to his bag?
19:29They're going to give him the reps this season.
19:32I think, like, at his price, it's one of those things where it's pretty much baked in that everybody thinks that he's
19:40not, like, that good of a player. So I just think, like, there's immense upside for him right now.
19:46Even though I'm not, I was never really sold on him as a prospect, but he's just going so late in drafts
19:53where I'm like, it's worth, it's worth, like, taking a dart throw on him.
19:58I'm curious your thoughts on that. Right, because, like, if he's bad, who cares where he's going right now?
20:04Especially in, like, traditional redraft leagues, he might be one of the first guys you drop if it doesn't work out.
20:11But to your point, like, he's going to be on the field.
20:15He is going to get every opportunity to be this guy.
20:18And he might even be, like, the number two receiver in routes over Jaden Reed.
20:23I think that would be a mistake because I think Reed is a really dynamic player and I'd like to see Reed
20:30do more than just the, to your point, Mickey Mouse slot receiver stuff.
20:35I agree with you. Even in 2024, Zane, like, he was running these big in-breaking routes and big corner routes.
20:41I mentioned earlier about how I think Makai Lemon could fit into kind of that, like, on the sale concepts, the big outbreakers and corners.
20:49Jaden Reed, he can do that stuff as well.
20:52So I would like to see more of Reed this year, but I think Golden would have to absolutely flop in camp
20:59to probably get unseated as the second outside receiver.
21:02And one thing I think is interesting to watch with Golden, I think he was overall mixed as a rookie.
21:09I mean, even, like, using the Quentin Johnson example, he was much better on film than Quentin Johnston was, but he wasn't,
21:16like, so much better that I would go to the mat and be like, yeah, no, like, Matthew Golden was really, you
21:23know, he was much better than you guys think.
21:26I think he was just, like, he was fine as a rookie overall.
21:30I don't have a strong take on him. But, yeah, adequate's a great way of saying it.
21:36It's one of those receiver seasons, especially in reception perception, where I look at it and say, like, yeah, I think this could kind of go either way.
21:45Like, he could just level off as, like, an adequate, useful player, or maybe there's a step in year two.
21:52I would be open to that one way or the other.
21:55And again, where he's going in drafts right now, take the shot, because if it doesn't work out, who cares?
22:02His impact on Christian Watson, I think, is interesting, because I was on Beyond the Box score with Jacob Gibbs recently, and
22:09he noted this stat, and I dug into it further.
22:12Christian Watson averages 2.67 yards per route run when Romeo Dobbs is on the field last year.
22:18That drops to 2.19 when Dobbs is off the field, which is still good, but it is a slight drop.
22:24More interesting, though, he has targeted Christian Watson on 25% of his routes when Dobbs is on the field, drops down to
22:3217% when Dobbs is off the field. And this is a little bit correlation causation here, Zane, but if I can give
22:39my theory on it, I think it's because Watson is at his best when he's not the stationary player, when he's on
22:46the move, he's the Z, he's off ball, and Dobbs is kind of that X receiver that just, you know, is a little bit of a sacrificial player.
22:55I'm wondering which role Watson fits into this year, because if you just look body type-wise, right, and this is where I'll
23:02be fascinated to track this through training camp, Watson, it looks like the X receiver compared to Reed and Golden for sure,
23:10but I don't know that that's the best use of him, and I actually kind of think like Golden could maybe end
23:17up being a little bit of that sacrificial player because he has some decent release moves against press.
23:23I would say that might have been the best thing he did last year.
23:27So those two guys, who's more the X and who's more the Z, I think that's actually quietly the key to figuring out both of their upside cases.
23:36Yeah, and we haven't heard anything on that either.
23:39One thing I did note from using some of like the charted data from Fantasy Points was that Matthew Golden and Christian
23:47Watson, they were only on the field for like 50, 52 routes or something like that last season.
23:52And so there wasn't, there's not enough, like that's not a big enough sample size to truly determine like what is the
24:00different role when both are on the field. And then even if you add in like when was Jaden Reed on the
24:07field with them, it gets even smaller, right? So you don't have a good enough sample size.
24:12Yeah, you don't have a good enough sample size.
24:15But when they were on the field together for those 52 routes, typically Christian Watson was the one that was running the deeper routes of the two.
24:24And I agree that that is the misuse of resources between the two players.
24:29Now they say they're ripping the offense down to the studs.
24:32So does that mean that they're going to think about the roles that these receivers play in and potentially fit them more to their skill sets?
24:41I don't know. We got to watch Training Tramp and see how that plays out.
24:46That's one of the big mysteries. And again, you talked about the routes run for Matthew Golden, how he's going to be the second most.
24:54I am a little bit more bullish though on the total route volume for all of these guys.
25:00And part of it is because what I heard was that they want to play with more tempo.
25:06And when they're playing with tempo, they don't want to rotate players out.
25:10And they want to stay in 11 personnel because they want to have Jaden Reed on the field as a dominant pass catcher.
25:17So I think we might actually see this Jaden Reed situation play out a little bit more favorable for fantasy than we
25:25have in the past two, where he's been more of like a 65-ish percent route runner.
25:30And now it's more, hey, can we get to that 75% level?
25:34And they actually operate out of 11 personnel rather than more mixing in 12 and 13, different things like that too.
25:41So I'm a little bit more bullish on Jaden Reed of the three options, mainly because I'm scared about the Christian Watson
25:48role and what they might end up doing with him.
25:51I'm most bullish on Jaden Reed at cost, even though I like where Matthew Golden is going.
25:57It's cheap enough where, again, you should just take the shot.
26:00But with Reed, I mean, to go back to the article that we were talking about earlier, where the route depth really
26:08can be a big indicator here, even if Watson is more in the role that I'd like to see as the movement
26:15Z, that's kind of what mostly what he was doing last year was as that like movement Z player.
26:21And even then he's still in your article, you noted he still had like a higher route depth.
26:27And I mean, there's no way that Reed will not have a shallower route depth.
26:32And I also think this team, the offensive line is worse this year.
26:36I think the defense could be worse this year, which again, will push more pass volume overall to these guys.
26:43But if it's just a team that's playing from behind more, they're playing in more chaos, I think we're going to see
26:50a lot more targets like kind of just naturally flow to Jaden Reed in those situations, not just the explosive place, but
26:57also kind of, again, the gimmies, the layups and everything like that.
27:01So if you got burned by Jaden Reed last year, you know, what are you going to do?
27:07Like it was a lost year, you know, just injuries and everything.
27:11But he is somebody I'm definitely willing to buy back in on this year.
27:15We haven't mentioned Tucker Craft either, who's also, of course, coming off from injury.
27:20The Packers are, dude, we're going to go to break here, but just one last thing I just want to, like the
27:27Packers are a weird team this year. Don't you?
27:30Do you find, like, I find them to be a bizarre team this year that I think a lot of questions on
27:37both sides of the ball and at key positions here beyond, like the pass catchers are not going to rotate this year.
27:44There's a question for every single player on that, like, skill position group offense.
27:49So, like, even getting into Josh Jacobs, like, it's a question mark on, one, he's got a legal situation that hasn't fully done yet.
27:57Two, he was dealing with knee injuries last year.
28:00He's getting older. Is there something going on there?
28:03Do they, they've talked about wanting to implement Marshawn Lloyd a little bit more into the offense and Chris Brooks as well.
28:10So, yeah, it's just every single player, I feel like, has some, like, small question mark that we need to address.
28:17It'll be fun to track during training camp and be able to report back to you guys on what I'm hearing.
28:24All right, we're going to take a quick break.
28:27When we come back, we are talking Broncos and Commanders offenses as we look at these teams that are having big offensive ecosystem changes.
28:34We'll get into that right after this. All right, we're back.
28:38We're continuing to talk through training camp storylines you need to monitor based on the minicamp OTA drum beats with Zane Dahani here.
28:46And Zane, this next one is really important for me to hear what you have to say because I am so over
28:53my skis, all in on Jalen Waddell. What is the situation that we are tracking in Denver with a new play caller,
29:00which is still shocking to me to say? Yeah, the fact that Sean Payton was willing to give over play calling duties
29:07is still one of the biggest enigmas to me because that's, like, his thing, right?
29:12So, anyway, yeah, bringing in Jalen Waddell, that is also one of the biggest, like, stands that I've taken from a fantasy perspective.
29:20His price was cheaper, like, multiple weeks ago. But now he's starting to get steamed up a little bit.
29:26And I still kind of, like, do this 1v1 on Jalen Waddell where I'm like, hey, he's going near, like, a Chris Olave or something.
29:34And I still am like, dude, I want to hit the button on Jalen Waddell.
29:39No, but I think this is one of those things where, yeah, this is one of those things where they brought him
29:46in because they lacked dynicism in the offense, right?
29:49So they kind of had Sutton, who's been that prototypical, like, hey, you can do a little bit of everything.
29:56And they've mixed him into, like, I wrote about him in my route depth article, actually.
30:01They mixed him in at all three levels, basically.
30:04But where he kind of, like, operates the best from my perspective is more intermediate and then also somewhat deep as kind
30:11of, like, more of the big body type of guy.
30:14And Jalen Waddell is a perfect fit, in my opinion, to fit in this deployment where this offense likes to do short
30:21area and intermediate area type of stuff, right? So we're talking about screens.
30:26We're talking about little drag routes and slants. That, to me, is really, like, the way that...
30:31And everything that I've read is that's how they want to use him.
30:35But, you know, I think that there's a contingency of the fantasy community who thinks they brought in Jalen Waddell to take the top off of the defense.
30:45But that's not what I'm hearing so far. So I'm actually very excited about what I've heard out of camp in the usage for Jalen Waddell.
30:53I think that, like, you know, he's one of those guys that he just got overshadowed by Tyreek Hill in Miami.
31:00But he's a dude by himself. And so everything that I'm thinking through with Jalen Waddell is this guy has the opportunity.
31:07Like, we're talking about fantasy breakers, like league winner type of players.
31:11This is one of those guys that I keep flag planting as, like, a league winner.
31:16I don't know. Like, I know you said you're, like, into him too, but I'm curious.
31:22Like, why are you into him? Is it the route tree?
31:25Is it, you know, just the talent? Or... Okay, this is so crazy that we're showing this Davis Webb quote.
31:32I have not seen this. The producer's just thrown this through this up here.
31:36This is Broncos, again, new play caller, offensive coordinator, Davis Webb, saying this about Jalen Waddell.
31:42He's a really good player. There are some similarities.
31:44When I was with Josh Allen going into year three, similar to Bo going into year three, and we traded for Stefan Diggs.
31:52The receipts are out there, folks. That is the exact comparison I made when they traded for Jalen Waddell.
31:58Like, again, it's a year three receiver guy who's on the second contract, like a proven guy that I think people still don't realize how good he is.
32:07That was my kind of... And I liked Diggs at the time a little bit more than I liked Jalen Waddell as
32:15a player, but that's only because, like, I viewed Diggs as a truly elite receiver in Minnesota, and Waddell's not quite at that level.
32:22But, again, just so funny. I had not seen that Davis Webb made the same comparison here because this is the effect
32:30I think this is going to have on this offense, Zane.
32:33And you kind of highlighted it there. Anytime you can get a guy who is going to get the designer touches, you
32:40know, the screens and the drag routes and, like, just get the football in his hands and let him cook type of
32:48stuff, but he can also run real deal routes and win down the football field, like, that's a potential wide receiver one in fantasy football.
32:56When you can get that stuff along with the real receiver work, and I just look at this Broncos offense, like, they're
33:03not going to treat Jalen Waddell, who they traded a first and a third round pick and are comparing to Stefan Diggs,
33:10they're not going to trade, they're not going to do that and then treat him like Troy Franklin or Marvin Mims, okay?
33:17Like, that is not going to happen because he's much better than those players.
33:22So, to me, I just, everything you're saying there about what we need to pay attention to, what you're hearing about, like,
33:29the usage for Waddell so far, like, the type of targets he's going to get, that's the reason why I think he
33:36is just such a good fit where he goes in fantasy right now as a potential, like, leaps multiple tiers in terms of the wide receiver ranks.
33:45Yeah, and I think that the wide receiver three in this room actually makes an impact on what we're going to see
33:52out of Jalen Waddell, maybe Cortland Sutton. I don't know if you've thought about this either, but it's like, what does Pat Bryant do?
34:00And if he's the wide receiver three, how does he change what Cortland Sutton does or what Jalen Waddell does?
34:07But Troy Franklin, you know, he can operate as more of like a vertical receiver as opposed to a Pat Bryant.
34:14And does that, like, give Cortland Sutton more of the intermediate stuff and then Waddell the short stuff?
34:20And so I've just been thinking, that's the only, like, nuance that I've been thinking through with this wide receiver room is
34:27like, who the receiver three is, does that dictate what the role shifts to for the Jalen Waddell or Sutton?
34:33I think it's going to have a bigger impact on Sutton than it is Jalen Waddell.
34:38Usually you're like, dominant receiver. You put in a situation that like, hey, this is his role.
34:44Then the second receiver is the one that like, maybe you mix and match a little bit with that wide receiver three
34:51depending on what their like route tree looks like.
34:54So, yeah. I've been fading more of the Cortland Sutton situation just because I think that like, he's going to potentially push
35:01deeper if they have Pat Bryant in the game.
35:04More often, who is the guy that I think is going to kind of win more of that role as opposed to
35:12a Pat Bryant playing that role because that's just not, that's not where Pat Bryant operates.
35:17He's not a deep receiver. He's more of an intermediate kind of guy.
35:21Yeah, you could pretty much lock in like the projections we're showing on the screen right now for Cortland Sutton.
35:28Like you could probably lock in about 750-ish yards and, you know, five or six touchdowns for Cortland Sutton, but I don't
35:35think you can really project a realistic ceiling here based on the environment, based on the Jalen Waddell addition.
35:41And there's just so many receivers that go after him in fantasy that I do think have a real path to a ceiling here.
35:49So I'm with you. I haven't been taking much of Cortland Sutton.
35:53And I think if it's Pat Bryant as the wide receiver three, Zane, one thing to just note is that that means
36:00that Sutton as the X receiver is going to be the outside on ball guy because Bryant is a big body.
36:07They actually used him more on the line of scrimmage than off the line of scrimmage last year.
36:13So if that continues, that just means like you're going to be able to move Jalen Waddell around consistently because he will
36:20be the off ball receiver, which I think he will be anyways.
36:24But Bryant being the third receiver would have a pretty big impact on that.
36:28You're right. That's something to note. He would have a pretty big impact like on how the other guys get used here.
36:36OK, let's get to our last offensive ecosystem change that we're monitoring here.
36:40And that is in Washington with David Blau taking over.
36:43This is one I have also been obsessed with thinking about.
36:47So curious to hear what you've read so far on the commanders and what you're looking for as we go into training camp.
36:54Yeah, the commander's offense is also really interesting because there's so much of a difference from what you saw from Cliff Kingsbury, right?
37:02Because Cliff Kingsbury is just notable for basically leaving receivers on their side of the field, playing at a really strong, fast pace, operating out of the gun.
37:11And they're basically changing all of that. What they've said is, hey, they want to move Terry McLaurin around the formation, right?
37:18Last year, I think he was like 85% on the left side and on the outside.
37:23Whereas now, and I think that was like one of the top numbers.
37:28Yeah. So just think about think about doing your full-time job right now and someone just asking you to do the exact
37:35same thing every single day for like 365 days a year.
37:38That just sounds boring, right? Like, and that's what that's what McLaurin was asked to do.
37:44So moving him around, potentially getting him in the slot sometimes.
37:47And then, you know, now they're thinking about how can we go under center and do play action with a lot of motion?
37:55And there's been a lot of great fantasy analysts out there that have done analysis on this.
38:00We see it on film as well. Anytime that you can do under center play action and have like a reasonable threat
38:08out of like 12 personnel, 12 personnel is a great way to use it too.
38:12A reasonable threat to trick the defense. You always see those linebackers take one step forward, right?
38:18And that's what they're hoping to do. They're hoping to take, make those linebackers take one step forward with the play action,
38:25which then opens up that middle of the field a little bit more for a guy like Terry McLaurin to just kind
38:32of be right behind the defense, right? So I think these offensive changes and then how they can utilize Chig in that situation too.
38:40They're talking about him. If they do 12 personnel, we're going to see a route share for Chig that he has not had in the past, right?
38:49Because the two tight ends on the field are going to be him and then either Ben Sanat or I forget if
38:56they still have John Bates, but they have somebody else out there that they could also deploy.
39:02Yeah, exactly. So in that situation, like I think that this is just going to play out.
39:07If they don't add a Stefan Diggs, this is going to be monster stuff for Terry McLaurin, who I think is still
39:15like, he's not an elite receiver, but he's a really good receiver.
39:18And then Chig as well, I think can be option two in that offense while they rotate that wide receiver two position
39:26and just figure that out on the fly. Yeah, I think it could look a little bit like Houston last year where
39:33like it's Nico Collins has a consistent route share and then everybody else kind of rotates around him.
39:39I actually think Houston could end up looking a little bit like that this year depending on Tank Dell's health.
39:45But overall, yeah, I mean, I think Terry is a really attractive target where he goes right now.
39:51Obviously, David Blau, we got to admit he's an unknown.
39:54I mean, the guy was playing football games not very long ago.
39:58So was Davis Webb, who we just talked about.
40:01I mean, shoot, we talked about Sean Mannion. He was in the NFL not that long ago.
40:07Like these are all very, very, very new coaches and theories we're kind of working through here.
40:12But if it hits, man, I mean, honestly, even if it doesn't hit, your point about Terry McLaurin is so well taken.
40:20I joked about this with Boone when we were talking about Terry like several months ago.
40:25Every new coach, Zane comes in and says, like, we're going to move our receivers around.
40:30We're going to move our number one receiver on.
40:33This is the first guy who said it and it will objectively be true because nobody moves their receivers around less than Cliff Kingsbury.
40:41And for that reason, too, like I think the route depth will come down on Terry.
40:46He will be less difficult or he will be less easy for teams to just take out of the game because they won't know where he is.
40:55So these games where he has like five targets or something that will be much less frequent in this new offense.
41:02So really excited about McLaurin. Obviously, we're tracking if Diggs signs here, we'll talk about Diggs briefly at some point during the
41:09show here, but the wide receiver to position. What's Antonio Williams doing?
41:13I am with you that Chico Conquo is a really nice late round tight end.
41:18Just real quick before we move off of the commanders, what have you seen so far on the backfield?
41:24Because that is obviously one of the more ambiguous ones in fantasy right now.
41:29Yeah, so there's been a consistent reporting on this from all of the people that are attached to the Washington commanders beat.
41:36So we're talking about John Kime as the ESPN beat, The Athletic as well.
41:40I can't remember who the name is, but and they're all talking about and then Ben Standig as well, who kind of
41:48operates in his own like independent fashion. And Ben Standig was the one that was really early on the Brian Robinson news
41:55last year where he said, hey, this guy's probably not going to make the team.
42:00Yeah, Ben's good. And it's probably going to be Ja'Kory Krosky-Marie.
42:03Yeah, exactly. So he was a little bit early on that.
42:07He just wrote an article yesterday that talked about how Ja'Kory Krosky-Marie is the one that has the opportunity to potentially build
42:14this offense into what they want it to be, which is to have a dynamic rusher and also a dynamic pass catching option.
42:22What's weird about that is that Ja'Kory Krosky-Marie's profile is not at all a pass catching back.
42:27He hasn't shown that in any of his history like dating back to I think he played like six years in college or something.
42:35So you can check the stats on him, but he hasn't really shown that in his profile.
42:41The problem is that what they want to do is they want to give him the opportunity to earn that type of work.
42:48Notably, they have Rashad White who has historically operated in that kind of role with Tampa Bay.
42:54So it would be natural for him to earn that opportunity, but I don't think that the commanders really see him as a nice rushing game threat.
43:03And so that's kind of what they feel that they can probably utilize Ja'Kory Krosky-Marie a little bit more.
43:09And actually, I'm curious if you've also felt this way, but I'm hearing more and more from offensive coordinators and other teams
43:16that are basically saying like we don't want to tip off run versus pass based off of personnel.
43:22And so like if you have Rashad White in, it's clearly probably more likely to be a pass play.
43:28You have Ja'Kory Krosky-Marie in, it's more likely to be a run play.
43:32But I think what David Blau was trying to say is that they would like for that to not be the case.
43:40So they want to develop the talent of Ja'Kory Krosky-Marie so that teams don't know that it's a run or a pass.
43:47It sounds like JCM kind of has the first right to fail essentially here.
43:51Like if they get into camp and he doesn't take it and run with it, I think Rashad White as we were
43:58talking about him earlier this week is sort of a guy that could end up being like this year's Javante Williams and
44:06that he's a boring vet nobody really cares for at this point.
44:10But he is functional in the pass game as a good pass blocker and he'll get you what's blocked.
44:16Javante was better than that last year let's be clear.
44:19But I think that he could be sort of in that variety but that probably means that JCM just didn't take the
44:26job and didn't seize it because it sounds like based on what you're saying he's got the ability to do that.
44:33But yeah, 100% like this offense only functions all this like cool play action stuff we're talking about out of heavy personnel
44:40that only works if teams respect your run game and even if it's not one of the best run games in the
44:48NFL from an efficiency standpoint they respect it from a design and a schematic and your commitment to it.
44:54So I do think that's pretty key to track and again one of these two backs I think Rashad White JCM is
45:01going to be like a really good fantasy pick I think JCM has the higher he has like the higher ceiling but
45:08it is still a theoretical ceiling so he is somebody to really pay attention to and track during training camp but we're
45:15going to transition here now to individual pass catcher units that have some ambiguity some like mysterious I would say pass catcher
45:23storylines first one up it's you know I feel like we've already talked about this about a hundred times this offseason and
45:30we've got a long way to go till week one so we're going to put up put up put up our big
45:37boy pants here and we're going to talk about them once again Jacksonville Jaguars pass catchers Zane what have you heard so
45:44far what are you looking for as we get into training camp yeah the more I read about this situation and I've
45:51written about this in many different ways as well the more I read about the situation I keep hearing things about how
45:59you know obviously Brian Thomas had this incredible OTAs mini camp everything he did so well in that but everything that they
46:06write about is hey this guy was running deep and he was catching a vertical route and that he's the vertical receiver
46:13for the team does that match what we've heard what we've seen out of these type of like Leon Cohen type of
46:20like McShanahan offenses absolutely in my opinion this this Brian Thomas role if you're talking about him being that X receiver it
46:27is usually a little bit more of like a vertical ish type of role and I've and again I wrote about this
46:35from a fantasy angle talking about route depth if he pushes deep like he did when they got Jacoby Myers last year
46:42that's not that's not like a predictive you know kind of like role to be in because you're just kind of like
46:49doing a lot of deeper routes that don't necessarily lend itself to the quarterback having that the opportunity to even hold on
46:56to the ball and get that ball over to that receiver they started him out as kind of like a three level
47:03receiver last year and then after injuries and it not necessarily working out perfectly they started moving him into this like more
47:11X deep threat type of like role and their offense started to flourish especially when they got Jacoby Myers and then they
47:18put Parker Washington into the slot and we've heard Liam Cohen talk about Parker Washington as kind of like a run after
47:25the catch like built like a running back type of player all of the reports on kind of the Parker Washington situation
47:32from my read have been really bullish but you know I think he best operates in the slot just because he's in
47:39my opinion he's not necessarily like the best like press coverage like man beater by any means yeah so I kind of
47:46see it as like you know Liam Cohen deployed this offense with Chris Godwin in the slot in 2024 Chris Godwin's a
47:54much better like route runner in my opinion than a Parker Washington he was more developed at this point but if that
48:01role exists and he's able to do more things from a run after catch perspective than a Chris Godwin was which I
48:08think he has the talent to that's kind of where I I lean a little bit and then Jacoby Myers is like
48:15your consummate professional like I'm going to play the Z you can rotate me into the slot I'm going to do blocking
48:22like I he's a good player by by like every evaluation but he's not like a guy that you're going to say
48:30hey this guy just got 1200 yards in fantasy and broke it the the real 1200 yard like breaking fantasy is either
48:37going to be Brian Thomas or Parker Washington or it could be nobody that that's like the the situation that like bother
48:44that this is the one where if you could tell me one stat line for the full year if you could tell
48:51me what happened with Parker Washington that would give me like the key to unlock the rest of fantasy this year in
48:58a weird raising I actually want like I would love to know the route depth between BTJ and Parker Washington before we
49:06get into the season here because one thing that's fascinating I told number one totally echo what you said about BTJ in
49:13that one I think I think it's bullish that he would be used as the X receiver in the offense because I
49:20think that's the right use for him but it's not the way he was used in his rookie season when he went
49:27crazy in the back half down the stretch and put up all these like he was used more as an off ball
49:34player then he was kind of used as we're getting the ball in his hands and he's doing yards after catch stuff
49:42and then for Parker Washington he is really good with ball in his hands I totally agree with Liam Cohen like he
49:49was he's one of the best after catch receivers I tracked last year even if yeah his route Parker Washington was used
49:56as like a vertical downfield slot not so much in like the Chris Godwin slot role even though he is a guy
50:03that's over 200 pounds like he's a little more thicker and compact than you'd think Parker Washington but if BTJ has the
50:10route tree that he had last year not ideal however if he has like Mike Evans route tree from 2024 with Liam
50:18Cohen I think that's actually a little bit better so to me like I wish I I wish I could know the
50:25exact route allocation for these two guys but yeah it could be the situation I mean ultimately I think the base case
50:32that we should project here Zane and it sounds like a lot of what you've read so far kind of leans into
50:39this is that this is like an everybody sort of rotates and gets theirs but nobody really is the home run here
50:46and obviously haven't even discussed the fact that like Travis Hunter is probably going to run so that just takes away targets
50:54when he's on the field and it's funny because I think you and I kind of agreed on this last year where
51:01we were talking about this and I commented on it but I said Travis Hunter just had his best game on film
51:08I did a whole evaluation on the Jaguars last year and he had his best game before he got injured he actually
51:15and we're going to toss you the ball and that's not like stupid I don't think that's the right way to use
51:22him so it was kind of interesting but yeah I think that for me it's really like to thread the needle as
51:30the X receiver in this offense we've seen kind of how and then Mike Evans in 24 and then last year with
51:37Devontae Adams as the X in for the Rams and it's hard to like it's a hard needle to thread to be
51:44that efficient right like Evans was getting a lot of season that he had so if Ryan Thomas is playing that role
51:51do I think that he's just as good of a talent and receiver yet as those guys I don't like I think
51:58he's still a notch below and he and it's hard to hard to accomplish that like we're talking about top top receiver
52:06seasons such a good point here because Mike Evans was wide receiver nine in points per game in 2024 as this X
52:13receiver in Liam Cohen's offense but that also coincides with Chris Godwin got hurt halfway through that year when he was the
52:20guy that was running away on a points per game basis as the two range of outcomes but is it the most
52:27likely outcome probably not so again even regardless of all right we're back and we had to take that break Zane because
52:34this next one it's a big one it's about a small player but it obscure article where some guy that probably isn't
52:42even a real beat but happened to be at practice basically wrote an article saying hey I saw Josh Downs lined up
52:49on the outside then I start peeling back the onion more yeah I know then I start peeling back the onion more
52:56and I hear from Jake Arthur who's actually a beat and then I hear from another beat writer I can't remember every
53:03I like people somewhat overrate the situation where a guy is going to operate more in that Z role and you can
53:10get creative with receivers like Josh Downs to be able to generate space and not have them lined up on the line
53:18of scrimmage Z receiver is typically if you got a tight end on your side you're typically the a bit and then
53:25they talk about how they want to utilize him in two wide receiver sets as well the way that they want to
53:32utilize him is getting him in motion so he could line up on the outside and then he on X or any
53:39other platform where people will take footage of Josh Downs actually being out there in two wide receiver sets that's a big
53:46one because his route share is kind he can get based off of the way they designed this offense he's the guy
53:54that could lead this team in targets he's going to typically been in the 60s so this would be huge for him
54:01I'm so with you ADP chasing and Jacob Sanderson who's a Colts fan made this point that if you think Josh Downs
54:08is going to get held back this year and be limited in terms Josh Downs because the team knows Josh Downs is
54:15good anybody with eyeballs knows that Josh Downs is good so I think it's really listening and following in training camp to
54:22see as you mentioned what are the formations that they're running we were talking outside so I'm with you that I kind
54:29of think the two receiver set it's like we're overthinking it a little bit with Josh Downs but even then so this
54:37is one that I think we're going to have to really pay attention to in training camp because out of OTAs Denzel
54:44Boston was but they feel that Denzel Boston is that big bodied receiver that they want to have out there and this
54:51is a team that could play some 12 personnel as well it's one of those things where who is the guy that's
54:58going to get more playing time Isaiah Bond is also on the team he has looked good for the team they want
55:05to also still have Jerry Judy on the field I think Judy will be their wide receiver one but I don't think
55:13he'll end up with their top stats at the end of the season but they want Jerry Judy between slot and maybe
55:20on the outside taking that Jerry Judy opportunity and that's what not to make the exact comparison but it is what the
55:27Ravens have done with Zay Flowers putting him on the outside but also in the slot moving him around a little bit
55:34more letting Denzel Isaiah Bond Bond being kind of also swapping between that slot role and Z receiver type of role this
55:41is pretty late in fantasy drafts to be able to get a first round rookie where Casey Conception is going historically guys
55:49like this used to go in the fifth round and now we're starting to see them fall quite a bit because we've
55:56been burned by I think you were on this too but Casey is one of those guys who when you chart his
56:03college film he jumps out on film he's one of those guys that was getting open a ton his biggest issue is
56:10catching the ball and I always say this and I don't know if you do it but I think we sometimes overrate
56:17being able to catch the football these guys are on the judge drop rates is so widely variable yeah I don't worry
56:25about it as much I don't worry about it either that's how I better than the legal reasons but he's more of
56:32a vertical player as well so I wonder if Judy could I know they've said oh he's our bell cow receiver which
56:39makes no sense we're going to come right back and then we are going to talk through the last two storylines we're
56:46going to rapid fire these ones before we get out of here we will get into that right after this all right
56:53we're back we are wrapping up the 12 storylines that Zane Dahan says you need to know and you need to be
57:01tracking here as training camps open up the drum beats the news more than anyone else but we don't need even you
57:08to tell us like it's pretty good news when the head coach says I'm buying stock in this player which is what
57:15Ben Johnson said about Luther Burden and that headline obviously went wild so what have you heard from Luther Burden so far
57:22what are you looking to see in training camp with the Bears passing game yeah I think we want to hear about
57:29what their roles are and how they're utilizing the receivers like everything that Ben Johnson has said about Luther Burden obviously the
57:37buying stock part but then he's also talked about him as a dynamic playmaker right so at as a guy who breaks
57:44tackles and we trust him in short situations I think that plays more favorable to Caleb Williams a little bit right like
57:51Caleb likes to operate in this crazy nuanced out of structure situation but Ben Johnson wants to put structure to that and
57:58Caleb Williams is also not the most accurate person especially down the field and so that's where it's like accuracy might not
58:05be the best when it comes and ball placement might not be and there was an article today talking about making sure
58:13he's able to hit his primary read more often which I think will end up being a quicker throw and the quicker
58:20throws I think will this is one where from a fantasy angle I think that Luther Burton is the right option of
58:27him and Roma Dunes but their prices are wildly different and then Rome better football player at this point in his career
58:34but just not necessarily in my opinion the role that you want to see in this offense and if these guys are
58:41running the exact same route trees as they were last year I agree with you 100% that Luther Burton is going to
58:49get way more honestly even if Luther Burton improves he's going to the tough part is though like Burton just never really
58:56had like a real role you know last year even once he got onto the field like they're still kind of using
59:03him in some more designer stuff I mean I think he can do more of that like I think he can be
59:10Robert Mays and I were talking about this last week we were texting back and forth about Luther burden comps I think
59:17Luther burden can be somewhere between like a combination of Rashi Rice and Zay Flowers which by the way that's a pretty
59:25sick player but I think he can be much really run some more downfield routes we just haven't seen it yet but
59:32he has to do that I think to meet his ADP this year which is why I just ended up taking more
59:39Roma Duns I think this offense is going about Luther Burden role and what are the routes he is running beyond just
59:46some of the gimme stuff because if he's going to be a fourth round pick in fantasy he needs to do player
59:53he's not a bad receiver yeah exactly and so I feel like they had to put people into roles that they don't
60:01necessarily fit in 100% because DJ Moore was in my opinion in this odd role that he doesn't necessarily fit in that
60:08offense and so that's where now I think you've got more that distinct role where you can put Luther Burden into more
60:15of like hey you're going to play the slot some you're going run the gimme routes we're not going to have to
60:22split that with DJ Moore you like they play in Chicago right that's where I live I've gone to so many games
60:29at Soldier Field late in the year it's cold the wind is blowing all over the place those deep routes harder to
60:37hit easy routes the gimme the underneath and that's where I lean fantasy playoff time are we going to see Luther Burden
60:44stick out more or are going to see the guy running the that's the scary one for me I saw it in
60:51one this actually happened early in the season last year I think it was week three there was a lot of wind
60:58it was like 30 40 mile per hour winds and I tweeted about this i said Rome is not going to get
61:05the ball today because he's operating as a deeper receiver and it's hard to make those throws they're going to have to
61:13make quick passes to make this happen and he did almost nothing in that game like he was just completely out of
61:20the game so i'm like i'm like this is a weather weird like a weird weather thing that i also think about
61:27for like fantasy playoff time that i think lends itself better to a luther burden profile but you know we can't predict
61:34the weather so can't predict the weather but you can kind of predict what the weather is going to look like in
61:41chicago late in the year and that's why i think that the run game is still going to be really important here
61:48i'm i'm fascinated also just with the offensive line which i think could take a step back this year with the left
61:56tackle situation um joe tooney another year older although he was incredible last season so yeah lots of new center as well
62:03drew dolman's retirement looms large over this team so i'm i'm very in on this bears offense but you got to acknowledge
62:10some of the risks with like the verticality of roma Odunze's role even if you are like me very very bullish on
62:17the player um and just again there's i want to bet on all these players but it is worth like noting the
62:24weather concerns and the offensive line concerns as well i i'm hoping that like kalief raymond and xabian thomas can end up
62:32being like the sacrificial speed players which allow like a dunze to run more slants and quick hitters than he did last
62:39season but that will obviously be tbd their last receiver storyline zane and we could be quick with this one because it
62:46is just quite literally a question who signed step on digs what have you seen so far where are we at with
62:53digs and when do you when do we think we can expect him to sign because there's still kind of a lot
63:00going on for digs off the field yeah so all the nfl insiders schefter jeremy fowler um ian rapaport that whole like
63:08crew of of guys that like are the most well-known have basically said they're they're actually surprised that he hasn't signed yet
63:15and that he had at least like five options on the table um two of those options um have lend themselves to
63:22the commanders uh and the ravens and those are the two that i'm like really really paying attention to um of the
63:29rest right so i kind of like i broke this down somewhere else but i said commanders to me is like a
63:3650 percent 25 for ravens and then there's always the surprise like what if the rams just want a dynamic wide receiver
63:44three and he wants to take some sort of pay cut to do that um there's always that like option that's at
63:51play you know if he goes to the commanders you know we talked about look terry mclaurin earlier but i still think
63:58that digs is a target commander and uh and i didn't say that as a pun i think he's a target commander
64:05and i i could see him especially the way that he has to like operate in an offense i could see him
64:12maybe being like the higher target earner over a terry mclaurin if they give them both like equal routes um and then
64:20obviously if he goes to the ravens i think it's probably a better fit uh because zay is a little bit more
64:27dynamic in all the things that he can do um but but i think that um it would be more clean from
64:34a fantasy perspective because i think zay is just like definitely the top tier guy uh when you compare him to a
64:41stefan diggs um so those are the two teams that i'm hearing right now um it is something that i'm i'm tracking
64:48like diligently uh like checking any like little piece of information but he is working out in at the university of maryland
64:56which is you know home court for both baltimore and um and the commanders yeah he's from the area the whole deal
65:03there so yeah i think those are the two teams that probably are the favorite to sign him i think the ravens
65:10will probably want to get into camp and see what rashad bateman can do see what the rookies can do a little
65:17bit um you know a lot of reports they're still counting on bateman uh obviously you know my therapist says i'm not
65:24allowed to talk about rashad bateman that still stands hoping to get that uh lifted here pretty soon as but i'm gonna
65:32wait for a couple weeks into training camp before uh talking bateman once more but yeah commanders obviously have a lot of
65:39room for targets there but i i agree like i i kind of want to see with a team like the rams
65:46or the chiefs even if like my chiefs would be awesome but that's like a pipe dream for me rams would not
65:53be great for fantasy that would really mix things up but they do kind of need a third receiving threat and obviously
66:00i think he probably wants to win a super bowl at this point we're gonna hit three running back storylines here zane
66:08before uh we get out of here and i'm gonna try to shut up as much as possible and just let you
66:15cook on these ones so uh no pun intended there our first one is on james cook and his pass catching role
66:22which you highlighted earlier so what have you seen on james cook that might help his upside in fantasy yeah so one
66:29of the big things that i'm trying to do when i'm tracking all this news is trying to figure out is there
66:36consistency is there uh multiple reports from different insiders that are telling us hey this is what they might end up doing
66:44this season and james cook is the one where i've seen very consistent drumbeat across multiple insiders that are very trusted within
66:51the the buffalo organization um that that cover the team and it's all been about hey pete carmichael was was uh hired
66:58here to be the offensive coordinator he has a history with alvin kamara ladenian tomlinson dating back to those days um and
67:05he has notably been very interested in getting these running backs their primary running back involved in the past game more and
67:12more james cook coming out of college right his profile lend itself more to a pass catching role than it did even
67:20a rushing role like i think most people were thinking that he would play more of like a gadgety like yeah running
67:27back than than than like the the role that he actually has right now um so we look at like what an
67:34alvin kamara role has looked like in the past and we're talking about like a something like 50 to 60 percent route
67:41share which right now james cook has been more like a 35 ish 30 like route share kind of guy so we're
67:48talking like that could that could lend itself to like one two maybe even three targets per game more um well they
67:56may take away some of his like early down rushing work as well but it does elevate the ceiling quite a bit
68:03like think about this if you get one or two more targets and you take away like two or three rushes per
68:10game those targets are worth like i think research has pointed to it being like worth like 2.5 more fantasy points um
68:17from that angle uh and i did the math on this too i don't know if we're allowed to talk math on
68:24the show but i did the math on this um if you add we could talk math yeah why not um if
68:31you add those targets back into his totals um it would probably add about one or maybe two fantasy points per game
68:39to his totals and while that sounds small it's pretty big because what it ends up getting him to is more of
68:46like a 20 point per game 21 point per game fantasy points in a full ppr league and when you look at
68:53that that's usually a top three receiver or sorry it's top three running back uh season now last year that would have
69:00been running back five and he's going at like running back six but i like i think he's got a solid floor
69:07in itself and then you add some pass catching duties and let's just say for some reason they do full alvin kamar
69:15lt um he could like this is one where if if we knew that he was going to have this role and
69:22they said hey yeah 60 routes um i think i actually think he would be the rb3 in terms of draft slot
69:29we don't know it for certain but i would draft him over jonathan taylor if i knew that he that this role
69:36was going to be his role i love that you brought this one up because yeah right now in my running back
69:43rankings i have a jonathan taylor james cook and i feel pretty good about that but the bigger question for me and
69:51i just recently made this change is i i made i moved jonathan taylor up ahead of like some of those receivers
69:58in the back half of the first round like a behind the the big three receiver uh or but like even like
70:05he's close with jsn to me so the question then is like if james cook has this role i would draft him
70:12in the first round over guys like jackson smith and jigba or aman ross st brown or justin jefferson so this is
70:19going to be a critical one to track because i think last off season and i i've joked about this like we
70:27just didn't we weren't down on james cook we just like never talked about james cook and he ended up being a
70:34great pick because it's just like well we know what he's going to do he's gonna be the lead running back for
70:41the buffalo bills good pick just never really talked about him enough and he ended up being a again a really he
70:48outkicked his fantasy value last year i want to talk about james cook more this year uh and definitely point people to
70:55draft him especially in that first round range so really want to track that receiving usage for him uh next one up
71:03here is back in the afc south we're talking second uh jacksonville storyline here and this one's great zane because i know
71:10you've tracked like the reports on basial tootin versus chris rodriguez justin boone and i were just talking earlier this week about
71:17Basial Tootin and i said like hey here's the deal man his adp it's only going to go one way it's only
71:24going to go up i don't think it's going to go down it's only going to go up and then not but
71:31like 24 hours after that show goes live there's a clip of liam cohen gassing up basial tootin on peter trager's podcast
71:39that's going all over the internet i'm like yeah that adp is already going up and it ain't been 24 hours since
71:46i showed up so what are your thoughts on basial tootin and the role expectation for the second year back look the
71:53interesting thing is the chris it's more about chris rodriguez in some ways the interesting thing with him is that he had
72:00foot surgery in the offseason right and there was like this whole mystery that was going on during otas nobody saw chris
72:07rodriguez they weren't showing him anywhere he wasn't out there on the field and then come come to hear about it from
72:15like a local jags um jacksonville you know report that was like yeah he had offseason surgery on his foot and there's
72:22been speculation about what that could be a lot of people think it's probably a jones fracture now we can't get into
72:29the speculation part in itself but if it is a jones fracture we've seen guys like des bryant seen guys like sammy
72:36watkins julio jones like coming back from that is really tough within the same season um your production is going to drop
72:43a lot coming off of a jones fracture if it's not a jones fracture that's fine are they going to limit his
72:51reps and just based off of him coming back from the surgery is he even going to be ready for training camp
72:58leon cohen said that he would but that was you know roughly like two months ago we haven't heard anything since if
73:05he's not ready for training camp then yes tootin's going back up again um the other nuanced approach that i take to
73:12this too is okay let's say that um let's say that let's say that it is some sort of split there's always
73:19situations where running back ends up winning the job after some time we saw zach moss and chase brown splitting a role
73:27for a little bit at the beginning of the season zach moss got injured and then chase brown takes over everything in
73:34terms of pass catching and the rushing duties about two years ago the people that crush fantasy usually are the ones that
73:41can contribute in the past game as well at running back right and the only one that has that profile like to
73:48be a league winner you have to have that kind of a profile usually or it's like insane efficiency off of rushing
73:55plus touchdowns and i don't know that chris rodriguez will get to that um this season you have to have that pass
74:03catching and basial tootin has that profile more than a chris rodriguez rodriguez has like very few reception in his in his
74:10career now the adp shows you that these two guys are kind of like obviously far enough apart where maybe it doesn't
74:17matter but i think of chris rodriguez is more of like a small win when you're drafting a chris rodriguez you maybe
74:24you get like a a seventh round value is that going to crush anything for your league like are you going to
74:31know when to start this guy no but if basial tootin hits and he if he hits and he has more pass
74:39catching and he's doing some rushing stuff that's where you could actually get like a second round value out of running back
74:46that's going in like a round five situation that's those are the types of things that i'm looking for and it's it's
74:53okay to get like a seventh round value out of a guy that's going like round 10 or 11 or wherever chris
75:00rodriguez is right now but again like you're not trying to play for that small win you're trying to play for the
75:07big win and the big win is is where basial tootin comes into play the last thing i'll say on that is
75:14it's the same message that i heard across al shanahan david blau and liam cohen all three of these coaches sharp coaches
75:22from what i what i think will happen with david blau um sharp coaches they don't want to give up and tip
75:29their hand on run pass splits when they have personnel on the field it's just that that is a common theme that
75:36i'm hearing this offseason from a lot of coaches basial tootin is the one that makes that all come to fruition chris
75:43rhabri is in the game it's most likely a run play basial tunes in the plot in the game you can throw
75:50the ball and it would be fine so that's that's the only thing i'll say on that i i am leading basial
75:58tootin mainly because of that upside but yeah i wanted to throw out all the news that i heard i honestly couldn't
76:05have said that better myself like yes can chris rodriguez be a get on base pick totally could he be an adp
76:12beater yes but he is not going to be like one of the defining picks of fantasy football and i don't know
76:19if basial tootin is going to be that nobody knows that but he has a higher chance at being it so that
76:26is why i do like where he is going right now um i think he's like perfectly priced unfortunately that price is
76:34going to go up like yesterday's price is not today's price with basial tootin and we're going to be able to say
76:41that a week from now and probably two weeks from now as well so uh we'll definitely be interested to track uh
76:48that adp and i think that transition does pretty well honestly the pass catching stuff at running back zane to our final
76:55news to track here and that is the bucks backfield where we've got the bucky irving kenny gainwell situation what have you
77:02seen from this one so far and how do you see it shaking out because i don't have a good read here
77:10yeah so this is one where at the beginning of otas we heard um todd bowles actually come out and say hey
77:17bucky irving might not be back till summer or fall and that that like threw everyone for a loop everybody was so
77:24worried right like when is this guy going to be on the field of fall fall i don't even have time for
77:31fall right now um everybody's like you're thinking i'm sitting there thinking like am i going to be buying a psl and
77:38bucky irving still on the uh on the ir right now or what um but there was a recent interview with uh
77:46bucky irving uh where he talked to some like local reporter at his camp and he said he's going to be there
77:53for the start of training camp um and so i like that that is not not a worry at this point in
78:00time the bigger worry is the fact that they added kenneth gainwell to this offense and what kenneth gainwell offers from a
78:07running back perspective and a receiving perspective um and we're starting to now narrow the window of what are the things that
78:14bucky irving does better than any other running back on the team sean tucker has done the goal line work in the
78:22past um and i believe that they they are going to continue to operate with him playing in that short yardage role
78:29and now they i mean they had rashad white in the past too but kenny gainwell is now a running back that
78:36can actually do stuff from a run game perspective as well more than what rashad white was able to do uh and
78:43he showed that last year with the steelers and they paid him good money and so everybody here now from from what
78:50i hear from the the bucks uh beat is basically it's a 1a 1b hot hand situation okay and we see the
78:58stats for bucky irving last year obviously he was injured for part of that and um and that may have impacted his
79:05play the offensive line was injured pretty much any single player on this offense was injured last year maybe not kate otten
79:12but every single other player was so that impacts performance as well but the profile for bucky irving he was a great
79:19college player not a really fast guy more of a shifty player a smaller running back um he has five games that
79:26he had in his rookie season where he had over 15 uh rushing attempts and so we're talking about a small sample
79:34size for a guy that was like a fourth round pick the nfl draft i loved him coming into last season because
79:41i was like man this guy's super efficient but the worry from the bucks and the reason why they kept uh sean
79:48tucker and the reason why they got kenneth gainwell is because they're worried about the blows to bucky irving so my concern
79:55here is that they don't want to lean into giving him a big workload and that i think they brought in enough
80:02competition in the rushing game as well as the past game from a kenny gainwell perspective where i'm actually leaning towards kenny
80:10gainwell being like the better fantasy pick because you get the pass catching stuff but then a lot of really smart people
80:17i don't know like who you've talked to about like the the about kenny gainwell in the past but a lot of
80:24people really like actually what he does as a running back and not just as a receiver um that he's like a
80:31way better running back than rashad white so i'm i'm like leaning into the kenny gainwell part of this argument because like
80:38i said you're taking away goal line stuff and you're taking away pass catching stuff and that like where where's the upside
80:46coming from then if you're taking away those two things like he's going roughly near bashal tootin um and so yeah i'm
80:53worried about like what bucky can actually do um other than just being a really efficient uh you know kind of like
81:00two down grinder between the 20s which is basically what jk dobbins role is right and that's not very helpful for for
81:07fantasy um we've got a clip here showing of him catching stuff so there there's that but yeah man like at the
81:14beginning of the offseason i thought i really want to be in on the bucky irving bounce back because number one this
81:22offensive line is awesome and is right now healthy it was not healthy last year like tristan worse not being there at
81:29the start of the season when bucky irving before he was hurt like when he's out there graham barton playing left tackle
81:36he should be one of the best centers in the league not playing left tackle so then they signed kenny gainwell and
81:43that throws a real wrench into it because i'm with you like right now i look at a cost perspective kenny gainwell
81:50is a much more interesting pick so i think we're just going to have to track and and monitor exactly how this
81:57backfield unfolds and like what the roles are because yeah the bottom line is bucky can be a really really awesome and
82:05effective back like jk dobbins was last year and still not be very like anything more than kind of a boom bust
82:12running back three because he's not getting that pass catching work and kenny gainwell just that's what he's really really good at
82:19he was super valuable for that for the steelers i think you could argue that he was a little overinflated from a
82:26pass catching standpoint because rogers was just dumping the ball off so much but even then if he just eats into the
82:33pass down work it's going to be a problem for bucky irving so that is one of the more key situations to
82:41track as we get into training camp zane this was an epic episode this was awesome i i cannot thank you enough
82:48for all of the information that you gave out to the listeners here uh you have been doing god's work sifting through
82:55all of this stuff you've been an incredible follow on twitter to keep up with it and thank you so much for
83:02bringing all this to the listeners i think it's going to be really valuable as people prepare for training camp and adjusting
83:09rankings and everything so tell the people right now where they can find your work what you're working on uh that people
83:17can check out as training camps get going and as we get into the nfl season here yeah so i think one
83:24of the big things that people can do is one follow me on x because that is where you're going to get
83:31all of the news and notifications um you can turn on uh the actual notifications you probably your phone might actually die
83:38because of how many things i'm actually sending out yeah i don't know dude if you if you turn notifications on for
83:45zane get ready to like your your spouse is going to be thinking you're having an affair or you know you're like
83:53your phone is gonna be blowing up so um i i recommend doing it but just be no be aware that's going
84:00to happen you know you should know what you're signing up for um regardless i'm doing basically a recap of all of
84:07that information that you can hear on spotify or apple or even on youtube where i literally recap all of the tweets
84:14and then also my thoughts on what's going on and how i'm kind of finding consistency amongst writers of what they're saying
84:21about players um all of that can be found on the cut up which is my own personal like youtube brand um
84:29it's the cut up show on youtube on uh apple and spotify it's just the cut up um yeah you can find
84:36me there and then my written content right now is on fantasy points um so you know we talked about the route
84:43depth article there's always going to be cool nuanced things that i'm going to be doing that are similar to that um
84:50here in the future uh but yeah that those are the big places you can find me thank you guys so much
84:57um for for following me and having me on no doubt man keep up the great work and yeah please make sure
85:05you check out uh zane's show and all of his written articles as well he's not just a news grinder he's a
85:12really good analyst as well so that is going to do it for today's show information packed show no question about it
85:19but remember we're two times a week right now before we get back to our daily schedule in august so that means
85:26we've got another two week or two episode week coming up uh next week tuesdays and thursdays and it's finally time folks
85:33on tuesday the boys are in the building josh norris and hayden winks make their yahoo fantasy forecast debut on this show
85:41to share 10 guys they are strongly against adp on that's right welcome to the company boys time to talk down some
85:48players and uh maybe get roasted for it later we'll see how it goes until then we are out

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