Fantasy Points Fantasy Football artwork

Reception Perception vs Fantasy Points Data - Matt Harmon's 10 WRs that Will SMASH ADP!

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this video and kept the full transcript here for context.

1 hr 25 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jul 31, 2026
Published
Fri, July 31, 2026
17
Player insights
17
Players mentioned
Topics
A.J. BrownAlec PierceAllen RobinsonBo NixC.J. StroudChristian WatsonCourtland SuttonDrake LondonIsaiah BondJayden HigginsJayden ReedJaylen WaddleJosh DownsMatthew Golden
Player analysis

Player insights

17

A.J. Brown

NegativeProjection5:18

AJ Brown shows signs of decline post-hamstring injury; even when charting profile is split between pre- and post-injury, back-half season numbers are good but not peak AJ Brown. Brown was traded to the Patriots; the fantasy market is drafting him as if peak performance has moved to New England, but even the Patriots' trade compensation (2028 first-round pick) suggests they are not expecting peak-level production. This represents an ADP concern as the market overvalues his ceiling.

Insight page

Alec Pierce

NegativeDepth Chart29:28

Pierce is mentioned as a Colts receiver alongside Josh Downs in the depth chart context, with the source discussing how the Colts can schematically align two tight ends on one side and two receivers (including Pierce and Downs) on the other to create varied personnel groupings and route opportunities.

Insight page

Allen Robinson

NegativeInjury25:12

Robinson replied to a tweet about foot injuries saying "that happened to me. Was never was never the same after that. It was basically over." This case study is cited by injury expert Jeff Mueller as evidence of the new normal with foot injuries—added risk of compensatory injuries and potential movement changes that could permanently impact performance. The source notes Robinson was already dealing with very few analytical numbers to inspire confidence before the foot injury occurred.

Insight page

Bo Nix

NegativeRole14:03

Bo Nix is identified as a candidate to lead the league in dropbacks (he did so last year) and is characterized as a quarterback upgrade for Jaylen Waddle's situation in Denver. However, Matt Harmon notes that Nix "puts himself in chaos at times" even behind a really good offensive line, and his play style makes longer-developing routes harder to execute. This creates a mixed outlook: positive for receivers like Waddle who benefit from quick, manufactured looks and off-ball deployment, but potentially challenging for receivers like Courtland Sutton who rely on deeper breaking routes.

Insight page

C.J. Stroud

NegativeRole6:41

CJ Stroud is identified as a limiting factor for Nico Collins' fantasy production. While Harmon considers himself somewhat of a Stroud apologist, he notes that Stroud has developed really bad habits under pressure and lets things spiral in a way that compounds the challenge for receivers running longer-developing routes. Stroud's inconsistency—including two of the worst games from any quarterback in recent play—constrains the upside of elite receivers like Collins who are locked into predictable pre-snap positioning.

Insight page

Christian Watson

PositiveProjection35:15

Packers WR coming off best season of his career despite tearing ACL in same calendar year; averaged significantly higher targets per route run (0.25) and yards per route run (2.73) when Romeo Dobs was on the field—both top-five numbers. Schematically benefits from Dobs drawing coverage as outside receiver while Watson gets designer looks. Matt Harmon conviction play with all-in positioning despite archetype volatility.

Insight page

Courtland Sutton

NegativeValue15:15

Courtland Sutton is ADP WR39 on Underdog with 12th in XFP per game and 15th in fantasy points per game over the last year and a half. Matt Harmon explicitly states he has not been drafting Sutton, citing his role as a big in-breaking route runner from the X receiver position—a role that is harder to execute with Bo Nix, who "puts himself in chaos at times" and struggles with longer-developing routes. Harmon notes that Troy Franklin out-targeted Sutton for stretches last season while playing the movement Z receiver role with easier looks. Sutton ranks 8th in yards per route run against man coverage but 40th against zone over the last three seasons. Harmon assesses Sutton as "several tiers lower of a player than Nico Collins" and prefers other receivers going around Sutton's ADP with comparable floors but higher potential ceilings. While Harmon likes Sutton at ADP, he expresses more bullish sentiment on Waddle in the same offense.

Insight page

Drake London

NegativeValue10:25

Matt Harmon describes Drake London as one of his favorite receivers in the league and acknowledges he and co-host Justin Boon recently debated London versus Nico Collins, with Boon taking the London side. Harmon believes Collins and London are comparable talents with Collins potentially a step ahead, but he finds more ways to talk himself into step-forward scenarios for the Texans offense than the Falcons. Despite this preference for Collins, Harmon hedged his bets in a recent draft by taking London over his usual preference for Collins, indicating the decision is very close. Environment concerns stem from the Falcons' quarterback situation—Tua Penix and offensive coordinator Stefanski are not great, with Matt Ryan even taking passes in training camp, indicating uncertainty at the position. However, Harmon tempers this by noting London is a quarterback-friendly receiver and that Tua's skill set overlaps well with London's big slot usage, so he doesn't want to totally fade London based on QB situation alone.

Insight page

Isaiah Bond

NegativeRole37:37

Texas WR with elite separation ability but critical weakness: zero discipline on route running; lacks functional timing and rhythm for NFL offenses. Separation is primarily from improvisation rather than scheme fit, limiting fantasy upside in structured offenses like those relying on timing-based concepts.

Insight page

Jayden Higgins

NegativeRole8:56

Harmon liked Jaden Higgins' film as a Z receiver last year and sees potential for him to be a Collins clone in terms of route running and size-adjusted metrics. He suggests Higgins could be used as a sacrificial X receiver in double-X formations alongside Collins to free up Collins' usage. Harmon notes the Texans have shown a type at receiver and are developing Higgins with that potential in mind.

Insight page

Jayden Reed

NegativeBust33:21

Jaden Reed ran only one route from 12 personnel last season despite Green Bay running 12 personnel on ~30% of plays (leading the NFL), creating snap count concerns if he doesn't receive a role bump. Matt Harmon flags this as 'concerning territory' for fantasy value. When on the field, Reed has been used exclusively as a manufactured-touch slot option rather than as the Z receiver against man coverage on the outside that Harmon charted him as a prospect, limiting his fantasy ceiling. Green Bay's receiver room rotates heavily and the team has worked on adding Tavian Wixs and Romeo Doubs, creating additional snap count uncertainty. Reed's 2024 season was completely injury-ridden: foot injury in offseason, collarbone injury in week two from contested pass, surgery on both injuries during the year, and didn't return until week 14; last season must essentially be thrown out for evaluation purposes. However, Reed ranks top 12 wide receivers by fantasy points per route run over the last three years alongside superstars like Puka Nacua, Tyreek Hill, Amon-Ra St. Brown, and others, suggesting upside if he gets on the field in heavy personnel looks after Matthew Golden's disappointing rookie season.

Insight page

Jaylen Waddle

PositiveValue12:21

Matt Harmon ranks Jaylen Waddle as WR12 and calls him the most mispriced player in fantasy right now at the wide receiver position. Waddle is a really good player who can beat press man coverage, win against zone, excel on downfield breaking routes, and also win in the quick game—a rare skill set that people misunderstand about him. Waddle's move to Denver represents a dramatically improved offensive environment (Broncos ranked much higher than Miami's 32nd in plays run) combined with a role change that will see him move off-ball for the first time in his career. Harmon projects Waddle to take career-high snaps off-ball, similar to Brandon Cooks' 2016 Saints role, with Bo Nix as a quarterback upgrade. The deployment shift from Miami's Tyreek Hill-centric scheme to Denver's structure with Courtland Sutton as the X receiver creates what Harmon calls "layup targets" for Waddle. Waddle is compared to 2025 George Pickens by Jacob Sanderson, with the key difference being Waddle's move to a much better offense. Current ADP ranges from WR20 on FFPC to WR24 on ESPN. Waddle ranks 7th in yards per route run against zone but 34th against man, making him a zone-beater complement to Sutton's man-coverage strength. Harmon loves Waddle at ADP and draws a Stefon Diggs-to-Buffalo comp, noting Diggs hovered around sub-WR20 ADP post-trade before becoming elite. Harmon believes Waddle has similar upside potential if the Texans' offense takes a step forward, and he expects more manufactured work and layup looks for Waddle in Davis Webb's scheme.

Insight page

Josh Downs

PositiveValue28:00

Matt Harmon sees Josh Downs as a Tyler Lockett-type who can play downfield vertical slot, Z receiver, and 12 personnel before kicking inside in 11 personnel. Downs has been a primary slot for the Colts but ran only 17 routes from 12 personnel last year, making him essentially an 11-personnel-only player; the Colts are saying they will get him on the field more. Downs ranks 12th in targets per route run over two years; jumps to 0.31 targets per route run (behind only Puka Nacua) when Michael Pittman is off field. With Pittman vacating 140 targets annually, Downs averaged 8.6 targets and 15.6 fantasy points per game over two-thirds snap share. Downs ranks third in separation score among primary slot receivers (40%+ snap share), behind only Jamar Chase and Amon-Ra St. Brown. Harmon finds his ADP in the 40s 'totally palatable' and wants to get him later, disagreeing with Jameson Crowder comparisons and arguing Downs can win on big routes down the field.

Insight page

Matthew Golden

NegativeProjection35:15

Golden averaged under one yard per route run as a rookie, a typically career-ending indicator; his charting profile wasn't catastrophic but was unremarkable. His separation scores look strong, but his production stems from 'tick-tock improv route running' where he manufactures one-on-one looks at incorrect depths with breaks not aligned to Jordan Love and Matt LaFleur's timing; he won't see targets unless Love extends plays, limiting his fantasy utility in a timing-based offense. Ranked 16th in separation ability but 67rd in separation win rate, indicating lack of consistency; 23rd percentile success rate vs. zone coverage. Matt Harmon notes his development trajectory mirrors Quinton Johnson's rookie charting profile—Johnson has improved since his rookie year, suggesting Golden could develop if he gains route discipline, but current role limitations will persist unless he takes a step forward.

Insight page

Nico Collins

PositiveProjection1:44

Matt Harmon identifies Nico Collins as a top-five receiver talent in the NFL with dominant per-route production over the last three years. Collins' reception perception charting shows 15% slot usage and 89.5% line-of-scrimmage alignment—a role with no comparable precedent in charting history from 2014 to present. Despite this demanding X receiver role requiring consistent line-of-scrimmage wins, he maintains elite per-route production (top three in yards per route run and first downs per route run over last three seasons) with separation numbers against man and press coverage among the best charted in the last three seasons. Harmon projects the Houston offense will revolve around Collins in two-receiver sets under new coordinator Nick Kaye, with CJ Stroud functioning as a year-two improvement. However, Collins has recorded just one 100-yard game with Stroud since the 2024 election—an underperformance attributed to three factors: (1) lack of pass volume, (2) Stroud's inconsistency and poor decision-making under pressure, and (3) Collins' predictable pre-snap positioning allowing defenses to focus all attention on him. Collins' last three seasons match AJ Brown's identical three-year span in per-route efficiency (81.4 vs. 81.3 yards per game; 2.90 vs. 2.79 yards per route run), yet fantasy points per game diverge sharply—Collins lags despite matching elite route-running metrics. Brown posted 16.5 fantasy points per game with the Titans (fringe WR1) but jumped to top-three fantasy points per game after joining the Eagles, illustrating how situation dependency unlocks elite receiver upside. Collins' path to AJ Brown-like WR1 upside requires three changes: (1) offensive line improvement, (2) Stroud playing better, and (3) increased formation movement and deployment flexibility. Harmon would like to see Collins moved around the formation more rather than locked into static X positioning, and suggests using Jaden Higgins as a sacrificial X receiver to free up Collins and create pre-snap unpredictability—paralleling how DeVonta Smith played X early in Brown's Philadelphia tenure. Harmon ranks Collins as WR11 in ADP and would take him over AJ Brown, Arashi Rice, and George Pickens at that price, preferring Collins to Drake London despite acknowledging they are comparable talents, citing more ways to talk himself into a step forward with the Texans offense versus the Falcons environment.

Insight page

Romeo Doubs

PositiveRole35:10

Dolphins WR on Matt Harmon's list; positioned as outside on-ball receiver in McDaniel offense; schematically benefits Christian Watson by drawing coverage, allowing Watson to operate in designer looks. Potential beneficiary of AJ Brown's decline in target share; Matt Harmon conviction play alongside Christian Watson.

Insight page

Xavier Worthy

PositiveRole37:09

Texas WR prospect with elite separation ability; identified as 'insane separator' with strong route-running and ability to create space from defenders.

Insight page
Full transcript

Episode Transcript

839
0:12You read the title correctly. Today we are joined by Matt Harmon for an episode of reception perception verse fantasy points data. We will be uncovering 10
0:22wide receivers that will smash their ADP. I'm Brett Whitefield with my usual co-host Mr. CEO Scott Barrett. School is in session. Matt, I obviously the
0:32title's clickbaity and joking. We're not here [laughter] to fight. It's not actually reception perception versus fantasy points data, but I thought it'd be a fun title.
0:39So, how you doing today, sir? Hey, listen. You got to get people through the front door. Okay. So, whatever you got to do title-wise to get in here. Uh,
0:46but no, I I am really excited for this conversation, and I respect what you guys do so much. Um, you know, it is
0:51always funny. People want to pit like the the route any sort of uh route stuff against each other. We're we're all
0:57trying to get to the same thing here.
0:59We're all trying to appreciate good football players and try to find out who's good. Uh so I think any sort of uh
1:04pursuit of that is is worthwhile here.
1:06>> It's fun too because I mean what we do is similar but it's not the exact same, right? So it's like there is some nuance
1:12where we will have some variance between takes obviously and I think that's really cool. I got to have you on my
1:17draft show a few years back and really talk and dive into your your process on reception perception and the the respect
1:22is mutual Matt. We we love you. We're constantly talking about you over here behind the scenes. So, thanks for joining us today.
1:29>> No doubt. It's going to be fun.
1:31>> Scott, how are you, man?
1:32>> I'm I'm doing good. I'm I'm ready to talk ball.
1:35>> Scott's like, "Let's let's stop with the formalities. Let's just jump into this."
1:38All right, let's start us off. So, we had you prepare like you're bringing like six to the table. We're bringing like four to the table. Let's just dive
1:44right in with Nico Collins. This is the first guy you had on your list. Houston Texans wide receiver. He's been a
1:49favorite of mine for a while. And I think if you follow our separation data, the breakout he had in what 23 was
1:55really predictable. Where are you at on Nico?
1:58>> Yeah, same here. Uh, pretty much f again, this is where like we're going to cross paths a little bit on this one
2:03because yeah, Nico Collins for me in the first two seasons of his career was someone that really stood out and kind
2:10of like a in back then it would be his profile would be pretty comparable to like a T. Higgins or like a Michael
2:15Gallop type player, which you know, good like starting ex receiver in the NFL like, oh, this guy actually can play uh
2:22like, you know, we'll see what the ceiling is and everything and you just don't know it because he's playing in one of the most dysfunctional
2:27environments in the NFL uh that we can remember in recent history. Uh so obviously that was who he was then, but
2:35then in 2023 like his reception perception charting data, you know, really went to the moon. Like we're talking about some of the best
2:42separation numbers against success rate verse man and press coverage that I've charted in in this last three seasons.
2:48And he just like continues to do that despite what goes on around him. And and his role is so fascinating because he
2:54pretty much is in a world guys where coaches are doing a great job like moving their primary targets around, getting them all kinds of, you know,
3:03form like formation advantages, mismatches, and things of that nature.
3:06like Collins is just lining up at X receiver and continuing to do dominant work. Uh in 2025, his charting sample for reception perception, he took just
3:1615% of his sampled snaps in the slot. He was on the line of scrimmage for 89.5%.
3:21Uh I have a breakdown coming on my YouTube channel where I compare Collins's role to like previously guys charted throughout the course of
3:28reception perception history, which is from 2014 to current. And there's like no one else in the last three years that has a comparable role to Nico Collins.
3:37And yet, as we're showing on the screen, even like beyond reception perception, this is one of the most productive receivers on a per route basis the last
3:45three years. So, I really like Nico this year because I think CJ Stout is like has gotten almost like a raw deal for
3:51how bad he was in the playoffs. Like, I think he's a fun I think he's a functional quarterback. I think the
3:57offense could be better in year two under Nick Kaye. I like Jaden Higgins as a complimentary receiver. I like I really like Jaylen Null. I wish he was
4:05healthy and obviously Tank Dell is a good uh player there as well. But I do think this is mostly going to be a
4:09passing game that revolves around Nico Collins from like more two two receiver sets and everything. So I just think he's a dominant player, like a top five
4:17receiver talent in the NFL, and I want to bet on that guy every single time.
4:21>> Yeah, I've been I've been super high on Collins as a route runner. think I did my just like talent rankings last year
4:27and I had Collins as a top five guy and everyone kind of >> turned their nose up at me a little bit,
4:32but the I mean the you you nailed it with the exceiver stuff. That is what he is. They do kind of a decent job of
4:38they'll they'll condense him down a little bit to give him a little bit more free release into the second level. But
4:42it's it is a battle out there. He's going to war on every down as a true X receiver. I think among like primary
4:48players only Pickins really played true X more than he did. So, um, yeah, ve very fascinating role there and not kind
4:55of like what we're seeing these days where your number one is usually a guy you move around the formation a bit,
4:59right?
5:00>> Exactly. I mean it's it is insane just again his role relative to somebody you know like I think when because I'm
5:07obsessed with this stuff even though it ultimately doesn't matter you know ranking these guys against each other and everything it's sort of a fruitless
5:13and obviously we have to do it for fantasy but for real life and I I do the same exercise Brett like I'm on Ross
5:18Brown and Nico probably come up like in your leaguewide rankings pretty similarly but their roles could not they might as well be playing two different
5:25positions >> exactly >> it's so funny and that's what makes receivers so fun but yeah he's a he's a really dominant player. Um I mean it's I
5:32know I've seen other people have this sentiment on social media and we launched a player comparison tool this offseason that that compares like
5:40previous profiles to current guys and I mean all the way back to 2014 and everything. He's the closest guy in the
5:46in the league right now that comes up to like Julio Jones comps or like old dead Bryant, you know, just from a role
5:52perspective. It's it's very very old school stuff.
5:55>> So you you talk about the per route stats and they're legitimately incredible. uh over the last three seasons, top three in yards per route
6:03run, first downs per route run. Uh the the stat I have, if we could pull it up on the screen, is
6:10>> his last three seasons, his year three to year five, look identical to year three to year five of AJ Brown, which
6:18is, you know, again, another per route monster. Uh 81.4 yards per game to 81.3.
6:24Um 2.90 yards per run to 2.79.
6:29uh but basically tied in everything. But then you look all the way down at fantasy points per game and AJ Brown
6:3416.5 that that was low for AJ Brown and that's kind of low for Nico Collins where it's like yeah he looks great on a
6:40per route basis but the raw production is maybe a little lacking. Uh a stat I have for you is is minus one play
6:49against busted coverage where the quarterback fell down. AJ Brown has just one 100yard game with CJ Strad since
6:59Donald Trump won the election.
7:01Like that shouldn't happen when you're this freaking good. So what is wrong? Is it, you know, the lack of pass volume in general? Is it CJ Strad
7:11being something of a disappointment? Um is it, you know, defense is just focusing all their attention on you? I I feel like we should have more. And it's
7:22again going back to AJ Brown. He was with the Titans and we're like, "All right, this guy is unbelievable and for
7:28fantasy, he's like a fringe wide receiver one and then he goes to the right situation. He goes to Eagles and he's, you know, top three in fantasy
7:35points per game. He's breaking leagues.
7:38What do we need from the Texans? What do we need from CJ Stroud to unlock that, you know, Julio Jonesesque upside?"
7:46I think for me it does kind of come back to the deployment because even if you just think about like from a structural
7:52perspective, it's much and I've talked with NFL receivers about this, it's a lot easier to take a guy out of the game
7:58if you know where they're going to be every single time. And even just some of those longer develop like his his most
8:03commonly run routes and reception perception for basically every single year are like big dig routes, you know, which take a longer time to develop.
8:11It's behind a chaotic offensive line. it is a quarterback in Stout, which even if I'm like something of a Strad apologist
8:17in just that I think he's gotten to the last two games we saw him play were two of the worst games you're going to see
8:22from any quarterback, but I generally think like he's a fine starting quarterback in the league, but he's still a guy that's developed really bad
8:29habits uh under pressure to me and like his responses to that. He kind of lets things spiral in a way. So again, if
8:35you're just this guy that everybody knows where you're going to be pre- snap, >> you got to run these longer developing
8:39routes, find a bad offensive line, like that does take some of the potency away from him as an individual producer. So I
8:45think the things that would need to change for Nico is obviously the the line's got to get better. Str's got to
8:51get better, of course, but I would like to see him moved around the formation more. And I I don't know where you guys
8:56are with Jaden Higgins. I had a little bit more questions about him as a prospect, but I kind of liked his film
9:01as a as a Z receiver last year. But I would I would like to see him even be used as just like a sacrificial X every
9:09now and again, you know, just to free up Nico Collins, just to free up Nico a little bit. So, um yeah, I I think with
9:16Nico, those are some of the various variables that would need to change. And frankly, like when AJ Brown first got to
9:21Philadelphia, he wasn't immediately the exceiver for that team. Like Dvonte Smith played a lot of X those first couple of years to to get AJ Brown into
9:28those favorable situations. So, I think that would be how like he takes that next step AJ Brownwise, but while still staying on the same team.
9:35>> What's super interesting is Nick Kayley is a Josh McDaniels disciple in that Airhart Perkins offense. Usually, you see more of movement with those
9:42receivers.
9:43>> Like, it's really weird how stubborn he's he was in that one year last year.
9:47But I I thought one of the fascinating things is they'd even go like wing like a wing formation with the tight ends off
9:52the line of scrimmage and they'd have a double X kind of setup with Higgins and Collins and it's like >> there's he just being they obviously
9:59have a type with what they like at receiver. I think Higgins is has potential to be a Collins clone and the
10:04way they're developing him and uh the potential route running, you know, size adjusted route running there, but it Kaylee really needs to not be so
10:11stubborn. I thought that was definitely a hu I was calling him a Ponzi scheme all last year. So, >> it was such a disappointment, man, too
10:17cuz I was hoping that it would be like a little bit of the best of the both worlds where you talk about like the
10:22Airheart Perkins and stuff like McDaniels and Patriot style, but also blending in some of what you would assume he would learn with the Rams the
10:28last few years that he was there and it was kind of like >> neither of those things.
10:33Made it a really >> just his own thing, man.
10:36>> Yeah.
10:37>> Um, so we're talking ADP. So, you know, Nico's what, the wide receiver 11 right now? Is that right, Scott? Could be.
10:46>> So, you like him at ADP? Who Who are you taking him over? You know, are you taking him over an AJ Brown, Arashi
10:51Rice, a George Pickins, or are you uh >> Yeah, I I would take him over all of those guys. And Drake London, too.
10:58London London. London. London and Nico are the two that like I uh my co-host at the Yahoo Fantasy Forecast and I um
11:05Justin Boon and I recently debated like he took the Drake London side, I took the Nico Collins side. While we both
11:11admitted that it is so close, obviously between these two players, um I just I just find like there's more ways I can
11:20talk myself into a step forward with the Texans offense than I can with the Falcons offense this year. And I love
11:25Drake London. Like I would posit that London is probably one of one of like my favorite receivers in the league. Even
11:31if I don't think he's like the best receiver in the league, he's one of my favorite receivers in the league. But I
11:34do think that I could talk myself into more steps forward for the Texans offense. I think they're comparable talents if like not Nico is a step ahead
11:42of Drake London but ultimately again it is so close that in a draft recently I was faced with the decision between the
11:47two and I did hedge my bets a little bit and took London because I usually take Nico so it's close but I think I would
11:52take Nico there.
11:52>> Just purely environment for you then on Drake where it's just like Tua Pennix not great Stfansky not great the environment
11:59>> is Matt Ryan's out there taking thrown some passes in in training camp recently like that's where their quarterback situation's at. I don't want to totally
12:06fade London because of quarterback situation because I think he's a quarterback friendly receiver and I think Tua actually in a scammy way like
12:14kind of overlaps well with the London big slot stuff. But yeah, it's mostly just environment. I have no questions about London as a player. Awesome. Let's
12:21move on. Jaylen Wadd, the uh the Denver Broncos really only acquisition of the offseason in free agency trade or significant draft picks. It was Jaylen
12:29Waddle. Like that's the difference maker that they're counting on this year. I've been all over Waddle all off seasonason.
12:35It sounds like you like him as well.
12:37Where you at on Mr. Waddle?
12:39>> I think Wadd is probably the most mispriced player in fantasy right now.
12:44Um, and really has been throughout the course of the offseason at the wide receiver position because I think there's a couple of things that people
12:50misunderstand about Jaylen Wadd. One, he's really freaking good player. Like just number one, he's a he's really good. He can beat press man coverage.
12:58Uh, he can win against zone. he can win on the uh downfield breaking routes, but also can win in the quick game. That's
13:03part of it. Number one, I think people kind of look at the raw stats last year and see, you know, it wasn't that great.
13:11Even though Tyreek Hill, you know, missed a bunch of time, then you you think, well, Miami was 32nd in plays run
13:18last year. The Broncos are not going to be 32nd in plays run this year. They're going to be a much better offensive
13:23environment. And then I think the thing that really seals the deal for me with Wadd is that people don't realize again
13:27to come back to alignment. He for the most part has been just an outside on ball receiver for Miami because they've
13:35been doing all the fun move around catering stuff for Tyreek Hill.
13:38>> Again, that is not going to happen in Denver with Courtland Sutton as the exceiver. So I think for the first time
13:44in his career, >> Wadd is going to get layup targets. He's going to probably take a career high snaps off ball this year. And you know,
13:53say what you want about B Knicks or or whatever, I I think this is a a quarterback upgrade uh for for Jaylen
13:58Wadd. So, I just think the deployment part of this, like his role is going to look a lot like Brandon Cooks for like
14:02the 2016 Saints where Cooks took the highest rate of his snaps off ball that year. I'm I'm so excited about Waddle. I
14:08think I have him as like wide receiver 12 this year. I've been just all over W this season. That component you just
14:13said is what I've been trying to articulate where I think if you pulled like 90% of fantasy analysts like, "Hey, where where do you think Jaylen Waddle
14:21lines up on the football field, they would all tell you slot or Z?"
14:24>> None of them realize he was a primary exceiver for the Dolphins.
14:27>> Yep.
14:28>> And he's undersized and needs to be off ball to really tap into his skill set.
14:33They have Courtland Sutton and tow in Denver and and Bo Nicks is a candidate to lead the league in dropbacks. He did
14:38last year, you know, so >> I fantastic situation. I think Wadd should absolutely eat his skill set is is tailor made for Bo Knicks as well.
14:47Couldn't agree more with you on this take Scott where you >> just to put a number real quick to to what we're talking about here in from
14:542022 to 2024 Waddle took 77% of his snaps in reception perception as an outside receiver and was on the line of
15:01scrimmage for 81%. Uh this past year even with even with Hill out uh he took 78.5% on the line was outside for 83.9%.
15:09So yeah, just again the role could not be more different than what people imagine here for Wadd in Miami.
15:15>> Absolutely. Scott, where you at on Wadd?
15:17>> Well, I I'm just curious, Matt, what do you think uh this does to Courtland Sutton? It over the last year and a
15:24half, Courtland Sutton, 12th in XFP per game, 15th in fantasy points per game.
15:30He's the ADP wide receiver, 39 on underdog. Um, do you think he just like really out alphas? Waddle out alphas Sutton turning him into a beta or, you
15:42know, could he still be comparably productive even with Wadd?
15:46>> I think comparably productive would have to mean like a massive leap for Bo Nicks and just the offense in general.
15:53Sutton's just not been somebody that I've been drafting because I think again this we saw this at times last year where you know freaking Troy Franklin
16:01you know all respect you know me meant for Troy Franklin here NFL player but like he would outtarget Sutton for a
16:08long period of time during last season because he was playing as that movement Z receiver and getting more of those layup looks and again the Sutton thing
16:15is we're we're talking about someone that in that Nico Collins variety is running those big inb breaking routes from the exceiver position and you got a
16:22quarterback back. Bonix I think is a is a good player but plays it puts himself in chaos at times even behind a really
16:28good offensive line with just the way he plays the game. Those longer developing routes is harder to get to those. So now
16:33you have an even fur and Sutton I think is several tiers lower of a player than Nico Collins as much as I think Sutton's
16:38a solid starting X. So I just think there's going to be a lot more of the layup looks going to Waddle and overall
16:45someone who's just going to be manufactured work, you know, and and deserves that manufactured work here, too. I think Sutton's just someone when
16:52I've, you know, come up and he's been in the area of of ADP and everything like that. I just find there are guys going
16:59around him that have comparable floors but like higher potential ceilings, I suppose, that go like around later.
17:07>> I've made the Oh, sorry, Scott. Go ahead.
17:09>> Yeah, the uh best comp I've heard on Jaylen Wadd this year was from uh Jacob Sanderson. He's like, "This is just 2025
17:19George Pickkins all over." Yeah, >> where he's, you know, uh, goes to a much better offense. Um, and yeah, current ADP is anywhere between wide receiver 20
17:30on FFPC, that's the low, to wide receiver 24 on ESPN. So, that looks like pretty good value to me.
17:40>> Heck yeah. Um, I' I've been making the argument that I think Sutton and Waddle can coexist and Sutton can still be
17:44good. You know, I already mentioned Knicks led the league in dropbacks last year. Davis Webb is going to be calling the plays now. He's going to be, I
17:52think, conceptually a little bit more explosive play friendly to the offense than Shawn Payeyton was, who >> is perfectly okay dinking and dunking
18:01down the field. So, >> I uh yeah, I I just feel really good about this. I think, you know, even if
18:06Knicks takes a marginal step, I think they could sustain production. They've cobbled together some productivity with kind of a moneyball approach at wide
18:13receiver outside of Sutton with Marvin Mims and Troy Franklin's of the world.
18:17and now I just think they have two horses to, you know, to line up and just go to work with. So I'm I'm a little
18:22more bullish than I think you guys on both of them being able to play together. But, uh, you know, I I like
18:28Sun ADP. I love Wadd at ADP, if that makes sense.
18:30>> Well, from an NFL perspective, uh, that was one of the first things that jumped out to me when he made this trade was
18:35just how complimentary they look by the numbers. And I know this is very much a quarterback stat, um, but over the last
18:42three seasons, Courtland Sutton ranks eighth in yards per route run against man. Uh, he ranks 40th against zone.
18:50Jaylen Waddle, basically the reverse of that. He's seventh in yards per route run against zone. Uh, Wadd 34th against man. So maybe Sutton's the man beater,
19:00Waddle the zone beater. U, but Brett always yells at me and tells me that's a quarterback stat.
19:05>> I will tell you that's a quarterback stat, too. at least at least at least for Waddle with the man coverage stuff
19:11because I actually do think that is sometimes the yards per route like versus different coverages can be kind of at least like directionally accurate
19:17and I do kind of think that's like right for Sutton and but that also comes down to just the role that he plays and
19:22everything too. Uh that he is a better man coverage beater than a zone beater.
19:26But yeah, I my just because you mentioned the George Pickins comp. My comp for this situation is like when Stefon Diggs got to Buffalo. Uh, and
19:34both of these guy, and by the way, I said that at the time of the trade and then I saw Davis Webb actually made the
19:38same comparison. Uh, I'm just going to say Davis Webb is one of the guys who listens to to podcasts, so you know,
19:44maybe he stole that from me. We we'll talk about that off air, Davis. But uh no, I think that that was one where like
19:51Diggs we all knew was good but and but like reception perception wise he was one of the best receivers in the league
19:58and then he becomes like an elite production receiver in Buffalo at the same time when Josh Allen makes the leap. I do think that is within the
20:05possibility for a guy like Jaylen Wadd this year. I mean, I'm and and Diggs was another guy that just after that trade
20:12hovered around like wide like sub wide receiver 20 AD 80P like never moved and and for all the steam people liking
20:18Wadd, he's another one that's been tough to get out of the wide receiver 20 range.
20:21>> Davis Webb, for what it's worth, for those that don't know, he played for the Buffalo Bills at the time that that
20:25trade was made. So, definitely a nice little comp there.
20:29>> So, he's probably not taking notes from my podcast. Yeah, probably just his own lived experience.
20:34>> Do you want to know what his nickname was when he was on the Giants? What was it?
20:38>> I would love to.
20:39>> Dragon web.
20:41>> Eli Manning called him Dragon.
20:43>> That was like three years ago, too, that uh he played for like the Giants. So, it's crazy some of these young play
20:48callers out there now.
20:49>> It is crazy that it's the whole league is being taken over by these former QBs.
20:53Um let's move on. Roma Dun, did I say that right, Scott? Grammar police here.
20:58Roma Dunay. Uh you like him, Matt, and I like him, too. I've been team Rome vers team Luther all off season
21:05>> and so Yeah. Exactly. Scott's going to me. But uh we don't even have to talk about the Luther component, but I do
21:12want you to talk about Roma Dunce.
21:14>> Yeah. Um we're going to have to disagree here at some point, Brett, because I I feel the same way about that one.
21:18Although I do refuse to participate in the culture war of like you got to hate one guy to like the other because I
21:24actually do I do really like both of these players. Unfortunately, like the fantasy market does kind of point you really to a Dunay because he goes so
21:33much later than Luther Burton, which I don't think makes any sense. Uh like in fairness, the adun just arc type of
21:41receiver is, you know, kind of similar to what I said with Drake London, just like my type of wide out where he gets
21:47open at all three levels. He separates really well. I think he's such a smart player that you one of the arguments
21:53against Roma Dunes that you hear from people is like well you know listen Ben Johnson drafted Coulson Loveland he drafted Luther Burton he inherited Roma
22:02Dunay well he inherited Roman Dunes and proceeded to run his entire offense through him in the first eight weeks of the season and talked about what again a
22:09smart player this guy was and you could put a lot on his plate like he's another one that I think people think of him and
22:15maybe he will line up more at X receiver this year because you know DJ Moore is gone and because Burden's a guy that you
22:20do want to kind of move around the formation. So, I think that I want to acknowledge that's possible. But last year, like Burton, I mean, excuse me,
22:27Adun was mostly like a movement player for this team. He was not a stationary target, like routes in full motion.
22:33>> And he's so athletic, like you see the on the screen here, the 83.6% success rate on digs, 83.3% on out routes, those
22:41big cuts like 90 degree angle routes in the middle of intermediate area of the field. He's so good there because of how
22:47athletic and how technically smart he is. So, I just think like if he didn't pick up the foot injury, you know,
22:52coming out of week eight, this would be like an obvious guy to take that next next step this year. And as long as he's
22:58healthy, I I mean, I think we're I think we're full systems go here. So, I think it's very live that he's the most
23:04productive pass catcher uh in Chicago this year. And it sounds like based on what he said this week, you know, the I
23:10think the ultimately I think the foot comments that he made were a little bit like people took it and ran with it. I I
23:17hopefully he's fine. We'll see about all that.
23:20>> The the role with >> I like that you said, you know, you don't have to hate one. You know, you
23:24can really like both of them, but I don't. I I hate one. And I It happens to be Romo Dunay. I I felt like earlier in
23:32the offseason there was a devil's advocate argument one could be making where he would just like had brutal luck. Um cuz if you if you reflect back
23:41on his final year of college, he uh punctured a lung and broke multiple ribs and didn't miss a single game and he
23:50just played out the remainder of the year like that. Everyone was like, "Oh, he's a warrior." You know, that was something uh you know, Ryan Ples talked
23:57about when they drafted him. Um you know, he's a dog. And then his rookie year, uh, in week one or week two, he
24:07picked up a grade two MCL sprain and he played through that >> his entire rookie season. It's like, oh, you know, it was an underwhelming rookie
24:16year. And then last year, yeah, five games he was incredible. He was what, a top seven fantasy wide receiver, 8.3 targets per game, 19.9 fantasy points
24:27per game through the first four weeks.
24:28So, actually uh third best in fantasy points per game. And then he kind of fell off and it and it seemed to
24:34coincide with yet another injury. It was this this foot injury. And so like look, you know, zooming out, you there's a lot
24:44of signs that he might just be uh a bust, you know, like you look at his numbers uh by yards per target over
24:53expectation over the last two years.
24:55He's bottom three and it's just like all bust inside the bottom 10. Brett would say that's a Caleb stat because he's
25:02also bottom three in catchable target rate. Ballad, [snorts] >> which that isn't an endorsement for Rome, by the way. He does play with
25:08Caleb Williams. That's not a good thing to me. So, [laughter] continue.
25:12>> Fair enough. But anyway, so it was all these injuries and like I wanted to make the devil's advocate argument. It's
25:17like, oh, maybe he could just stay healthy. Um, but then, you know, he he's talking about the new normal with this
25:23foot. And you had Allan Robinson like reply to uh a tweet and he was like, "Oh yeah, that that happened to me. Was
25:30never was never the same after that. It was basically over." And we have an injury expert, Jeff Mueller, who's kind of uh really worried about this being
25:39the new normal in terms of uh added risk of compensatory injuries. You know, maybe doesn't exactly move the same. And so you like add it all up, it just for a
25:50guy who already kind of just, you know, very few analytical numbers you could hang your hat on and and feel inspired by. Um,
26:01and then you have this foot injury, too.
26:03I I don't know. I that just drove me to being like wildly team Luther.
26:08>> Okay. Can I just say the one thing about the Allen Robinson thing? And and this is coming from somebody that was the
26:12biggest Allen Robinson fan on planet Earth when when he was in his prime.
26:15>> That's right. That's right.
26:17>> He he picked up that foot injury like in the middle of his season with the Rams.
26:21I think people saw that and were like, "Oh, that's what caught like it was not looking good for Alan Robinson before
26:27that before that foot injury." So I just want I just want to note I just want to note that in the in the in the spirit of
26:32intellectual honesty here >> he was cooked. Yeah. Also the Rome interview in which he was like >> he was just I I felt like he got caught
26:40in a moment of candacey where he was just being candid with with the fans just saying hey this is what happened to
26:45me last year. This is where my head was at. I don't know that he was saying that to like disqualify himself for future
26:51production. You know what I mean? Like if every player was completely candid about where their body is at, you would be alarmed how many guys are dealing
26:59with, >> you know, doubt.
27:01>> Malik Neighbors, Malik Neighbors is dealing with a new normal right now.
27:04Like I mean, even just because he didn't say it, like again, that was where my whole thing was just I do think and he's
27:09that's what he said yesterday at the podium was I think that just kind of like went with the wind a little bit. It
27:15got taken, you know, in a lot of different directions. But it's it's definitely worth acknowledging that, you know, it's a serious injury and like
27:21maybe he doesn't look like the same player coming back from it. But um I think the player before the injury was
27:27I'm totally willing to just toss out the stats and and say like this is a really good football player when I watch him.
27:32>> Yeah. And another example too is Amika Ibuka who first five weeks of the season just like Romo Dunay top five in
27:39production and then he picked up a an injury and kind of battled that throughout the rest of the year and you
27:46know now hopefully he's fully healthy and he goes what six rounds earlier than Roma Dun. So >> that's a good good comparison.
27:54>> All right, let's uh let's continue on.
27:56One thing I loved about your list Matt is a lot of the guys you submitted are guys Scott and I have already talked
28:00about a bunch. So, it's kind of like a almost like a hive mind. But Josh DS, who's been kind of a primary slot for
28:07the Colts, I've had concerns with his role because he's he ran 17 routes from 12 personnel last year. Basically an 11
28:14only guy. They are saying they're going to get him on the field more, which gets me excited, but the opportunity is
28:18obviously there. Matt, what are you seeing with Josh?
28:21>> Yeah, I've always I think Josh Downs might have been one of the guys Brett, you and I talked about uh on that show
28:26way back in the day. I think you're right. Yeah, because I've just always been a huge DS fan. I think he's more in
28:31the mold of someone like a Tyler Lockett who can be like a more downfield vertical slot that can play Z and 12
28:37personnel and then kick inside when we get into 11 personnel. And like honestly guys, I we could sit here and talk about
28:44again I think Josh Down is a great player, great separator. I'd be surprised if your guys charting data disag disagreed with that. I think we
28:50can all watch Josh Downs be like this guy get knows how to get open. But but we could talk about like how well he's
28:55never played from 12. He's never I think if they don't get him on the field as one of their, you know, top eligible
29:00pass catchers this year based on their depth chart, like there Shane Styen is an idiot. And I don't think Shane Styen
29:05is an idiot. I think Shane Styen is really good at this. And I think it kind of makes sense why he didn't play a lot
29:10last year and he's coming off a really disappointing season, you know, over like like this comment here, Josh Downs is Jameson Crowder. Totally disagree.
29:17like total I think I think Jameson Crowder is like a pop gun slot receiver and Josh Downs can actually do a lot
29:23more than that and like really win on big routes down the field and stuff. So to me I think there are ways
29:28schematically they can get Josh Downs, you know, kind of slotish reps from 12 personnel if they align the two tight ends on one side and the two receivers
29:37on one side. And they did that, you know, very very sparingly last year. I think it's just kind of how they'll have
29:42to build it this year with Alec Pierce, Josh DS, and then >> question mark, you know, at wide receiver three and everything. So, I
29:50think I I hope DS doesn't get too steamed up. I'd love to get him later.
29:54And where he goes kind of now in the 40s, I think is totally palatable.
29:58>> Yeah, the 2 by two wing and the 3x1 tray sets for downs should be big in 12. If if they really want to hide him in the
30:04slot, they can still do it for sure. Um, one thing that's notable too is if you look at our separation score metrics in
30:10the data suite when you, you know, curb the the routes run for just primary slot guys, guys that play like at least 40%
30:18of their their snaps on the slot. Downs is like third in separation score. He's behind Jamar Chase and Aman Ross St.
30:24Brown. It's like, >> yeah, >> well, that's a really good company to be in. So, [laughter] I'll take I'll take the production there
30:29or the the future production there with Downs. Um, Scott, what do you what do you think about Mr. DS?
30:34>> I love him. Yeah, he's he's for sure one of my guys. Over the last two years, he ranks 12th in targets per route run. Uh
30:42with Michael Pitman off the field, jumps to a 0.31 targets per route run, which would rank behind only Puka. And then over the same
30:51span, if you look at games, he played over twothirds of the team snaps. He averages 8.6 targets per game, 15.6 fantasy points per game. Those are all
31:03top 10 numbers. And then you look at the quarterbacks he's done that with. It was three games with Anthony Richardson, three games with a 39year-old Joe
31:12Flacco, two games with the literal grandfather Philip Rivers, and then just one game with Daniel Jones. And so you have improved quarterback play. You have
31:22him in now in a full-time role. You have Alec Pierce. I don't know if you saw the video map, but like his left calf is
31:30like 50% the size of the right one. That doesn't really bode well for him. And so it's Yeah, it looks like to me it's
31:36going to have to be the Josh DS and Tyler Warren show uh in 2026.
31:42>> Well, even if Pierce is healthy, let's just say he's healthy, he's never had more than what 84 targets in a season.
31:48>> Yeah. Right. Not a target earner. Also, Daniel Jones has an injury where maybe, you know, like that limits his he really
31:55drive the ball down the field, >> but they also vacated 140 target a year guy and Pitman.
32:00>> Yeah.
32:01>> You know, Warren's an ascending player, but >> that was the stat I had is >> Josh Down's targets per route run with
32:06Pitman off the field was behind only Puka.
32:08>> Yeah, that's that's incredible.
32:10>> There's there's another one of our all-time guys, Matt Harmon, is uh Deontay Johnson, right? There's some Deontay Johnsonesque, you know, a like
32:18this is a target earner, >> uh, which, you know, targets are worth a lot in PPR leagues.
32:23>> Yeah, >> totally.
32:25>> Downs plays like a psychopath, too. I I want that to be stated for the record.
32:29It's actually one of my I wrote him up as a negative is that at his size, I'm just not sure he can sustain throwing
32:34his body around like he does, >> but because he plays like that, too.
32:38>> Yeah. Right. He's a quarterback's best friend though cuz they know no matter where they put the ball, DS will find a way to get to it and he
32:43will lay out running full speed into traffic, taking hits, doesn't matter.
32:48Plays like an absolute unchained lunatic.
32:51>> Yeah, I I do worry about that. I I I will say looking at Josh DS's quads, you know, this offseason, I think he's I
32:57think he's put on a little bit of weight. So hopefully he's put on some size uh to get to be able to handle that
33:03because yeah, that's like him and Lad Makanki are these are the two guys that it's like, >> you know, success rate wise, role-wise,
33:10I think they can. And look, Lad has played a good bit of outside receiver in the NFL. But I just don't love that they
33:15got to kind of like scrape themselves off the turf every time uh you know, we're getting late into the season here.
33:21>> All right, Matt, you have a type apparently because the next guy on your list is Jaden Reed. Uh yeah, this is Oh,
33:26now now we're totally in Matt Harmon fell for it again territory. [laughter] >> It's just funny coming off of downs who
33:31played 17 routes and 12 personnel. Jaden Reed ran a whopping one route from 12 personnel last year and the Green Bay
33:38Packers led the NFL in 12 personnel usage. So or maybe they were second to Cleveland or something like that, but they were up there. Uh 30% of their
33:46their plays were in 12 personnel. So this is concerning cuz if he doesn't get the roll bump, we're in concerning territory. But I think you and I might
33:54be confident he is going to get the roll bump. Where you at?
33:56>> I got I mean I got to hope he gets the roll bump here because he's just such a good player. Last season you almost kind
34:02of have to throw out because it was completely injuryridden.
34:06>> I mean he comes in for with like the the foot injury in the off season. Uh and then he suffers the collar bone injury
34:12in week two going up for a contested pass and you know then it was a and then he got surgery on both injuries during
34:19the during the year. So, it just was a total mess injury-wise.
34:22Hasn't come back till I think week 14.
34:24But when Jaden Reed's been on the field, it's kind of funny because when I chart him as a prospect, I thought some of his
34:30best work was like as a Z receiver against man coverage on the outside. And then you look at what he's been in Green
34:38Bay, he's been this kind of like manufactured touch slot only option. It just really wasn't the role that I kind of imagined for him. So maybe the
34:46Packers are right on this and I and I'm wrong. Totally willing to acknowledge that. But I just look at the receiver
34:51room right now. I do think the second problem for Reed beyond the fact that he hasn't played in 12 personnel that's
34:56kind of crushed his snap counts is just this room always rotates and I can't imagine that they're going to rotate this like I think Matt Lefor even
35:03admitted this ended up being a pretty big problem for the team where guys weren't happy with their roles and it wasn't kind of at least to me it was
35:10notable to see that the two of the guys at the part of the team worked on Tavian Wixs and Romeo Dobs. I think that's part
35:15of it. So, in theory, I think they've got a three receiver set of Watson, Reed, and Golden. I'm curious, honestly, where you guys are on Matthew Golden,
35:23cuz I don't have a strong take on Golden coming out of his rookie year.
35:27>> Honestly, was >> okay. He stinks. That's your That's your your take is he stinks.
35:31>> Is because he's he was his charting profile like wasn't so bad that I'd be like, "Forget it. It's it's already over
35:39for this guy." Like a Jaylen Rager or Terrace Marshall type Justin Hunter, you know? Uh, in fairness, Quinton Johnson had a had a profile like this coming out
35:47of his rookie year, and I think he's improved, >> but it wasn't that bad. But it also wasn't so good that I was like, get this
35:53guy the ball. What are we talk? How could they not play this guy more? So, he just kind of had a very whatever
35:58rookie season. And I kind of thought he was I was a little bit of a centrist on him as a prospect. So, if he's the guy
36:05that he was last year, like Reed should mo Matthew Golden. Like, that's the long and short of it.
36:11>> Yeah, that there's that word again.
36:12Scott taught me about what mog means because I'm a I'm a boomer.
36:15>> I mo him constantly. [laughter] >> I'm learning too.
36:19>> I I can't let you get away with something. So, I I [clears throat] didn't like Jaden Reed as a prospect and
36:23then he had what looked appeared to be like a really bad rookie season. Uh where like if you average under one
36:30yards per route run as a rookie, it's like basically over.
36:33>> Are you talking Matthew Golden, right?
36:36>> Yeah, I'm talking about Matthew Golden.
36:38But, uh, Brett, you have to if if he's so bad, why was his ass so good? Because his ass was really good last year.
36:47>> I was actually going to organically address this. Yeah. So, there's some views the separation scores look really good. And it's possible he develops and
36:54gets better for sure, >> but a lot of what he does is what I call tick- tock improv route running where
37:00it's like, yeah, in a in a if he's going to manufacture a one-on-one look, he can go win that. The problem is it's not
37:06going to be at the correct depth. It's going to be with an extra step or two.
37:09The break's not going to be where Jordan Love and Matt Laflur want it. And he's not going to see targets unless Jordan
37:14Love's extending a play and finding him in space. Um, he has to get more discipline. This is true for pretty much
37:20all the Texas guys that have come out.
37:22Adai Mitchell, insane separator, right?
37:24But it's almost 100% improv. Xavier Worthy, insane separator. The UDFA dude that went to Cleveland last year, I can't think of his name. the vertical
37:34guy, super fast. Anyways, really good.
37:37>> Yeah, Isaiah Bond, insane separator, but zero discipline on the route running, right?
37:41>> And so, yeah, in in these tick- tock type routes, yeah, he can go route a guy up and it looks cool and he separates,
37:47but it's like not super functional for a timing and rhythm based offense. And so, unless Golden does take a step and he
37:53gets more disciplined, I think you're going to see him continue to kind of have that the role that he did. See, I
37:58think this is where we get into a really fun like nerdy distinction about again where how like you the separation score
38:04is charted and then like kind of against what I do because I thought that was f I've seen some of like the at least the
38:09posts about you know Matthew Golden likes his his ass. I can't believe you guys make me say that. [laughter] Anyways, that seemed like like it was it
38:18was it was really high or whatever. Like I just didn't really like match his success rates essentially when I'm charting. And I think that is cuz I'm a
38:25pretty sickler about like the depth and kind of everything like that. So yeah, that makes that actually does make a lot
38:30of sense where I agree with you Brett.
38:32Like >> he definitely has an ability to when he creates separation, it's a lot of separation, but I just don't think like
38:38consistency is something that he ever found last year and that was an issue as a prospect. I mean 23rd percentile success rate versus zone for a player of
38:48his archetype that I think is probably more of a Z. Honestly, I I really hope because I'm I'm a little bit like back
38:55and forth on Christian Watson, too, and that I think he is he he's coming off the best season of his career, bar none.
39:01Uh, which is insane because he tore his ACL in the same calendar year, but he's still just again archetype wise always
39:08going to be a little bit volatile and I think he leans more into that volatility the more he played at X. Uh Jacob Gibbs,
39:14who we mentioned earlier, is the one who turned me onto this stat, but Christian Watson last year averaged significantly higher targets per route run when Romeo
39:22Dobs was on the field. And some of that is like correlation causation maybe, but to me, I think just football-wise, schematically, it makes sense that Dobs
39:31is the outside on ball receiver, Watson moving around and getting some of those designer looks. I I hope that Matthew Golden almost get is a little bit of the
39:39sacrificial ex receiver here because he has a decent ability to like pull away in one-on-one situations and we get, you know, Watson and Reed doing kind of more
39:46of the fun stuff.
39:48>> That's that's fair.
39:49>> So So the stat last year, Matthew Golden 16th in ass all the way down to 67th in separation win rate. So yeah, not really
39:58consistent, but when he was getting open, he was getting a lot of separation. the Jacob Gibbs, I believe you're referencing. Last year, Christian
40:06Watson averaged 0.25 targets per route run and 2.73 yards per route run with Romeo Dobs off the field. Those are both top five
40:15numbers. One more Jaden Reed stat for you. And I think this really highlights um what we were saying about, you know,
40:23the upside that he possesses is you look at the top 12 wide receivers by fantasy points per route run over the last three
40:30years. Tell me if there is not a superstar on this list. Matt >> Puka Nua, Tyreek Hill, Aman Ra, Nico, AJ
40:38Brown, Mike Evans, CD Lamb, Jamar Chase, Devonte Adams, JSN, Drake London, Jaden Reed. Is there is there any of those guys not a superstar? Yeah, Jaden Reed
40:48might be the one surprise, but hey, if he gets on the field in those heavy personnel looks after Matthew Golden had
40:56a really disappointing rookie season, feels like the sky's is the limit. Um, personally, I'm I'm putting all my chips on Christian Watson. I've just always
41:05been a Christian Watson guy, but I certainly can't fault anyone for being a Jaden Reed Truther.
41:12>> Right on. All right, last guy on Matt's list and we'll get into some uh Scott and I's guys. Romeo Dubs, which is also
41:18Scott and I guy, but uh >> Oh, nice.
41:20>> Yeah, I I'm curious if you think he's going to get that slot roll in the McDaniel offense or or why you're high
41:26on him, but I I I'm very excited to hear your take here.
41:30Well, as we were kind of talking about a little bit off air, I just think we saw signs of decline with AJ Brown last
41:36year. Um, and even even if you do, which I I hate to do this and yet I've done it for a couple of injury guys this year.
41:43Even if you kind of split like the charting profile between pre-by and postby buy for AJ Brown where he was, you know, again, I think playing with
41:52the hamstring injury at the beginning of the year and the whole deal, his numbers in the back half of the season are still
41:57they're they're good. They're like, but they're not peak AJ Brown. Like, I think we're the fantasy hive mind is drafting as if peak AJ Brown has gone to New
42:06England. And even New England, like if they thought they were getting peak of their power as AJ Brown, they wouldn't be haggling for like actually give you
42:12the 2028 first round pick, you know, or anything like that. So, I think they're even not expecting Brown to be what he I
42:19mean, they might be even overshotting their expectations, but I just to me want to like find ways to get in on this
42:24New England offense without paying the iron price for AJ Brown. And I just think Dobs has become a really solid player. Uh like last season especially
42:32really played well against press man coverage as kind of an outside on ball receiver. I'm curious if those movement skills on some of the routes that like
42:40we're seeing here the inb breaking routes translate well to that slot receiver position. I actually am super fascinated to see what this receiver
42:47room looks like because I think if their top three receivers and Brett I'd be curious your opinion on this is like
42:53their top three receivers if they're Brown Dobs and Kan Booty like those are all three guys that were basically ex receivers last year
43:00>> and I think Dobs is the one of the three that has the most like movearound potential even if Brown I think would be
43:06more maximized if he took more snaps off ball which by the way his his highest rate of snaps off all ever in his career
43:14was his final year in Tennessee with Mike Vrabel and current Patriots receiver coach Todd Downing as the offensive coordinator. So I think that
43:21would help Brown, but even then like I still think Dobs is a really quality player who could win against press coverage as an outside on ball receiver.
43:27So to me, I just I like betting on Dobs as a guy who can play well with Drake May and is attached to a good offense.
43:34>> Yeah, I kind of want to see this stack up with with Kahan at the X, AJ at the Z, and Dubs at the the big slot role. um
43:42in and it's kind it's kind of a small sample, but Dub's um in his career with Green Bay is 96th percentile separation
43:49score from the slot. It's >> like he's and it's it's o well over like 150 routes run. So, it's not like it's a
43:56small sample, but it's not tiny, you know and >> totally >> um his yards per route run was also like 2.8 or something like that from the slot
44:03in his career there. So, like I think he can do it and it seems like from all the buzz we're getting out of camp so far,
44:08that is what they they vision for him.
44:10It does unfortunately though seem like he's having to compete with Pop Douglas.
44:14That could be just like a an ode to the old vet though, right? Like because Pop has been there for so long.
44:21>> But I've seen a lot of Romeo running with the twos right now. It's so early in camp though. You can't really put a
44:25ton of stock into that stuff. But >> um yeah, I did see this report from uh so shout out to our guy Zayn Dani. I
44:32know you just had him on your show uh Matt, but he's been just on top of all news, but he he had some I mean my god.
44:41He get he gets accusations that he's AI.
44:43Nope. Just just a dude, >> real person >> with an incredible work ethic. But uh yeah, some of the tweets he's been
44:49putting out from some of the best Patriots beat writers are saying like they envision Romeo Dobs as like Stfan Diggs plus they see him as this sort of
44:59PPR cheat code in the offense whereas AJ Brown is the the field stretcher, you know, putting an added strain on the
45:07defense where maybe, you know, the target volume's not so high. Um, but he o opens things up for for Romeo Dobs,
45:14which you know, first you and and and multiple beat writers saying big slot, Josh McDaniel's big slot. And that really stuck in the back of my mind for
45:24two reasons. One is the Josh McDaniel slot role. Remember when we used to chase that? Um, and if you look back
45:31since Josh McDaniel's first year as an OC, uh, his slot wide receiver, just wide receiver to lead the team in targets, uh, has finished top 12 in
45:41fantasy points per game, 44% of his seasons, top 25, 72% of, uh, his seasons. Romeo Dob's current ADP, wide receiver, 52. And then I pulled up the
45:53ass. I looked I was looking at the ass.
45:55I was looking at Romeo Dob's incredible ass from the slot over the last two years. He leads all wide receivers in
46:03average separation score from the slot and you look at the the the names on this list. It's Zay Flowers, it's George
46:09Pickkins, it's Malik Neighbors, it's Jamar Chase, Alman Raw, Justin Jefferson. Uh, and so it's a small sample here, but yeah, maybe this is
46:18perfect. Maybe this is, you know, what Romeo Dobs is perfectly suited for to play this position. And it's maybe the focal point of the Josh McDaniels
46:28offense. I know people want to say, "Yeah, yeah, well, they had Wes Welker, they had Julian Edelman, they had Jacobe Meyers. Those were all UDFAs. Those were
46:38all round seven draft picks are UDFAs."
46:40And so, you know, maybe that's a real role that that Josh McDaniels wants and covets and that's why they went out and
46:47signed Romeo Dobs this off seasonason.
46:48So, I'm doing my draft guide and I just went on the it's like 99% of the way done. I just went on a Jacob Gibbs show
46:56yesterday and I was telling him I'm like, "Yeah, but like once I'm 99% done, I allow myself to like put on the
47:03tinfoil hat and get crazy." And me getting crazy was like, "Am I way too high on AJ Brown and way too low on
47:12Romeo Dobs?" And it seems like both of you are telling me, "No, you're not. You don't need to take your meds." You're
47:18actually right. [laughter] >> No, I I like it. Yeah. And by the way, Pop Douglas, they he ran around on like
47:2436% of the dropbacks last year. So I it would be it would be hard for me to imagine like no, they're actually going
47:29to play him more this year. And I mean, maybe that prevents Dobs from being like a full full-time player. But yeah, no, I
47:36think we are all um we're maybe all gaslighting ourselves further, the three of us, that like we need to be in on
47:42Romeo [laughter] Dobs a little bit because Yeah, I agree. Like it's just his ADP is the one that really stands out here, at least from this offense
47:49right now.
47:49>> Well, can we can we talk about AJ Brown, too? the the concerns that both of you are seeing on film.
47:56>> Yeah, Matt, why don't you go ahead?
47:58>> Yeah, I mean, for me, like AJ Brown is one of my favorite receivers of all time. Uh he's Yeah, he he's a guy who
48:07very digsish, who we brought up earlier, was and you know, we kind of talked about this with Nico Collins, was producing isolation in reception
48:14perception, like an elite elite capital E receiver, and then he goes to Philadelphia and then the production kind of matches it. And even to me, like
48:21in 2024, he he was number one in success rate verse man coverage for the players I charted in 2024. Like I thought he was
48:27still awesome in in 24. Then last year just really right away and through again throughout the course of the season we
48:35saw like a significant drop off in him and against man zone press coverage especially on the downfield vertical routes. I think he still won downfield.
48:44Like he made big plays downfield, but was someone that was living off more of like contested catches and stuff. And so
48:49he could still do that. And you've kind of even seen that like the high I don't want to put a lot of stock in highlights
48:53from camp, but a lot of like his big wins in camp are these kind of tight coverage contested catch downfield opportunities which
49:00>> I would prefer to see him at this point be more of a movement guy. But we'll see how that goes. to me just like I've made
49:07the mistake of kind of looking at a all right we're seeing like even if it's small signs of decline for this arc type
49:15of receiver at you know 29 years old tons of lower body injuries and just been like it's okay it's just one one
49:23thing it just does remind me a little bit of like we mentioned Allen Robinson earlier when he went to Los Angeles and
49:29was like yeah there were some signs of decline in Chicago but like he wasn't happy and you know whatever dealing with
49:34injuries And then he but he's getting this massive quarterback upgrade and it kind of reminds me of a very similar story
49:40here with the AJ Brown thing. Another receiver again that I really really liked at his peak. So um yeah, I just
49:46the drop off in isolation is pretty is pretty clear to me. I don't know what that means in terms of exactly what
49:53he'll be. If he's the player that he was even just in isolation last year, I still think that's a fine solid starting
49:59ex receiver. But with receiver decline, you just have to ask yourself what the next step is.
50:05>> Is it like this or is it right off the cliff? And that's where it just gets tough historically to pay like a second
50:12round ADP on AJ Brown.
50:14>> I've said it on the show a bunch, but I'll say it again. I have access through a league source to some of their GPS
50:20data. This isn't like as a ball carrier type stuff that's publicly available on NGS. This is like down in down out
50:26stuff. Um, the decline started like halfway through the 24 season from a from an exit vo standpoint, getting out of a stance, acceleration, and then the
50:34the dell, which is Matt, I'm sure you agree, that's actually the most important trait for receivers, ability to stop and change directions. Both of
50:41those things declined, you know, precipitously in 24 and then we saw a bigger drop off last year from the 2024 spot. So, that's got me like shook.
50:51Like, I agree. Like I think I still think he's a quality starting X for sure, but one of the things that made AJ
50:57so powerful was like he could take a slant or a shallow 80 yards on a given play or he could go beat you over the
51:03top on a nine route or crush a two high look with a post and it's like if he doesn't have that same level of twitch,
51:10it's just going to be th those wins are going to be a lot fewer and you're looking at more of a possession style
51:16chain mover receiver instead of this explosive play demon that he's been. And so I I just get a little concerned that
51:21the decline is real. At the same time, I can talk myself out of it and just say, "Well, what if it was just a gaff
51:27issue?" Like, what if he was so unhappy in Philly? I know they won a Super Bowl in 24, it's so it's kind of even
51:32ridiculous to say it out loud, but what if he just was so upset with the situation, he just didn't care last year
51:37and the hamstring was like the icing on the cake. He just checked out. We saw it with Devonte Adams in in Vegas, right?
51:43And it's like, well, all of a sudden, he goes to the Jets and he looks like a legit receiver again. Then he tears it
51:47up at the Rams last year. So, that's got me a little like hesitant on my own take, but I am with you. I'm a little
51:53concerned about AJ Brown.
51:54>> Yeah. What's >> I just I would be just curious if there was ever a guy and I think the Adams one
51:59is tough just cuz like one of his last games with the Raiders, he dunked all over the Ravens and stuff like that. But
52:06I just can't really remember an instance where we were like, "Yeah, this guy just doesn't care. He just doesn't care." And
52:12then it actually like next year he had this electric season at the receiver position. So I' I'd be actually legitimately curious if there's a good
52:19example, but yeah, that's >> so I think Adams actually is the perfect example. Right before he got traded to the Jets that those first few weeks with
52:26the Raiders, I was like, "Hey, is is Adams washed? He has like the worst average separation score." And you're like, "Yeah, I watched the film. He just
52:33like literally was pouting and just like, >> yeah, out of here."
52:37>> Was like trade me midplay.
52:38>> Pulled himself out of the games. Yeah. I mean, it was it was pretty bad.
52:42>> Yeah. And and let's not forget the injuries. like it it it makes sense that AJ Brown would be a guy you from a
52:49dynasty perspective you want to get out early on. You'd rather be a year early than a year late. And hey, the Rams,
52:54remember they they failed AJ Brown or or they didn't trust the medicals and that's why they didn't trade for him.
53:00But >> he's he's had um a degenerative knee condition in both knees, which he's managed since 2019. that year that he
53:08went to this Super Bowl, he was getting his knees drained every single week throughout the playoffs.
53:14>> Wow.
53:14>> Um and so yeah, >> twice, I think.
53:16>> Twice a week, I think.
53:18>> Twice a twice a week. There you go. So, uh that's that that doesn't, you know, really make me too optimistic.
53:25>> All right, let's transition in here into some of Scott and I's guys or guys we want to talk about. I know Scott, you've
53:30been dying to pick Matt's brain on Malik Neighbors. So, let's just start there.
53:33It was a pretty hard one to talk about with the injury stuff, but that's why we're talking about him. So, uh, Scott,
53:39I'll tee you up here. Let's go.
53:40>> Yeah. If if Malik Neighbors were 100% fully healthy, like where would he rank from an NFL perspective for you or even
53:48from a fantasy perspective? Because I I think this guy's special. You know, I'm not I'm not a film expert like you and
53:54Brett are, but like he moves like a gazelle. Like he moves in a way that I don't see and he just commands, you
54:00know, uh, insane target volume. So, he's awesome from a fantasy perspective. Stat on the screen is Yeah. Over the last seven full games, Malik Neighbors over
54:11100 yards per game, 22 fantasy points per game, 11.3 targets per game. That easily clears CD Lamb, Justin Jefferson all the way down at 8.3 fantasy points
54:21per game. That's Theo Whis levels. Um, and so I had a tweet >> I I had a tweet like week two or week
54:28three of last season where I said Malik Neighbors is better than Justin Jefferson. And I don't like putting out inflammatory stuff like that. I only say
54:36that when I believe it. And like I don't know, I just think this is like a really really special talent. Brett's always
54:42like, "All right, pump the brakes a little bit." He's he's not there yet.
54:45But um this is for sure one of my guys.
54:47Always has been, always will be. Where do you stand?
54:52>> I think he he is like knocking on the door of being an elite receiver, >> but yeah, he's probably just like a
54:59couple twitches away from it, but unfortunately we just didn't get to see it last year. Um, so this is probably the best reception perception stat I
55:08have on uh Malik Neighbors is these are the wide receivers that have cleared the 98th percentile in RP history while playing fewer than 30% of their slots uh
55:17or excuse me their snaps in the slot from 2014 again to current. It's AJ Brown, Devonte Adams, Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson did it three times. Odo
55:25Beckham did it three times and then Malik Neighbors truncated 2025 sample while by the way >> playing in the dumbass Russell Wilson
55:35offense where [laughter] this all like you know you see again look at the routes on the screen it the route percentage chart like 20 almost 26% go
55:43routes. It's just nonsense stuff that nobody has their number one receiver run anymore but it's what you have to do when you have Malik or when you have
55:49Russell Wilson. So, I think some of neighbors, you know, this and this is where it's like target earning. I I kind
55:56of bristle at the phrase a little bit, but like target in 2024 >> is like, well, they were they were they
56:04were kind of running like a Malik Neighbors usage scam in that Giants off that year. Not really like the offense sucked like while doing that because
56:12they didn't have any other threats like that. There's just no way that that would happen if they had another, you know, really quality receiver or two or
56:19and they really kind of had none because Wondell Robinson was doing the scam stuff that year, too. So, I But that's
56:24again, we're splitting hairs here. He would clearly be a top 10 receiver. Uh, and probably more like I would say six
56:33or seven if we're doing leaguewide rankings if he's 100% healthy.
56:37>> Yeah, I want to say I I view that as a perk. Um, so a league source I asked about, you know, BTJ versus Neighbors
56:46and I'm like, "What what what explain cuz they were very high on BTJ." I'm like, "What what does explains the the
56:52target per game discrepancy?" And they were like, "Oh, that's because Malik Neighbors is an [ __ ] He just he would pout and he throw temper tantrums
57:00if he didn't get his 12 targets per game." and BTJ at LSU was, you know, more reserved and like, you know, was
57:07like, "Hey, hey, give give neighbors the targets. It's okay. I I'm I'm cool." Uh, and then you kind of saw that his rookie
57:14season, too, where it was like, >> yeah, >> he there was one game the Giants lost and he only got like five targets and he
57:20just totally threw Dable under the bus and then [laughter] from that point on he was getting 12, 14, 15 targets. So,
57:26um, yeah, I mean, >> he has he has the he has the mentality that you need as like an elite, you
57:32know, receiver. Even even to the point in this is totally after my own heart because I I think drops are overrated
57:37where he's like, "Yeah, I'll I drop one.
57:39I don't care. Throw me like throw it to me again." I'm like, "It doesn't matter." Um, I will also say though
57:43about Malik, uh, because I got a chance to interview him and meet him a few years ago. I was expecting I heard the
57:48same stuff like, "Oh, this is going to be a tough one." He was lovely. Lovely guy. uh just you know throw the football
57:54and we're gonna keep seeing that lovely guy. Sanity is not something we desire for our wide receivers. We don't we don't want sanity. We want crazy.
58:00>> That's one of the most predictive things in my my prospect model is uh the the crazy ones. It's like the crazy hot
58:07scale but for wide [laughter] receivers.
58:09>> Yes.
58:09>> The the the Deontay Johnson Malik Neighbors scale. You got to do it.
58:13>> Antonio Brown. I mean >> I'm on ramp like the only like normal superstar wide receiver. Are you sure like normal though? I mean,
58:21>> no, he's not normalish. Normalish.
58:24>> Normal-ish. You Yeah, you're right. You want to be normal adjacent if you're going to be a tier one receiver.
58:29>> Yeah, Matt, I want to derail this whole thing. You made a comment about the term target earner that felt like it
58:35resonated deep in my soul because it's my least favorite statement that people in the fantasy community say. And so, what what were you alluding to there
58:43with that comment? I got to hear this.
58:45So, I think that the term targets are earned and like a target earner is is again like directionally accurate, especially in the positive. Like if a
58:54guy's getting a lot of targets, nine times out of 10 it's because they're really really good, you know, for the like you don't fall ass backwards into a
59:02bunch of targets, especially over a long period of time. You know, by the way, Deontay Johnson was one of these guys
59:06for me where people like, well, he just keeps getting targets is like there's a reason they're throwing the football.
59:10It's because he's always open. I mean, there's he's got other issues in his game for sure. You know, go forwards when you catch the ball and actually
59:17consistently catch it, for sure. But there's a reason he's getting all the targets. He's always open. I think the problem for me is when it's used in the
59:23inverse when a guy's like not a target earner. And I think the best reason or the best example of this, and I think we
59:27we want to talk about this player at some point, is like Michael Wilson from last year. If you look at like his
59:32targets per game when when Marvin Harrison is is there versus when he's not, it's it's dramatically different.
59:39And I'm like, nothing materially changes about Michael Wilson. He doesn't like lock in and decide today I'm going to earn targets like today like today I'm
59:46going to do this that and the other. The deployment changes and frankly like Michael Wilson was always a good quality player. they just weren't they I they
59:53weren't like maximizing him and it just also the offense is crowded when you talk about a highly productive tight end and to me a guy in Marv that I'm a
60:02little bit of like a Marv apologist like at least a solid starting ex receiver uh on the field that like Z receiver just
60:09does you're not going to be in the progression a lot especially when your quarterback is Kyler Murray so that's like ana like an anecdotal example but
60:16my my problem with the phrase is generally just like in the positive I again I think it's directionally accurate for the most part outside of
60:22some like outlier examples to me it's when we talk about a guy is not a target earner I think there are that sometimes
60:29that's true other it's any any like blanket phrase is bad for the most part it's like well sacks are a quarterback
60:35stats are sacks are a quarterback stat >> maybe usually maybe mostly but not always exactly exactly >> yeah so speaking of you being a Marvel
60:46apologist we're going to talk Michael Wilson later but before we do Mike Evans let's hit Mike Evans. I think for me,
60:53this is one of my favorite picks at ADP.
60:56Actually, might be my actual favorite.
60:58Um, I don't know that you've ever had such a clear path to a a potential wide receiver five or top five output in the
61:06fourth or fifth round as you do Mike Evans right now. I think this is absurd, especially with the Ricky Pieraw news.
61:10And maybe that will give Michael Evans a little bump actually. But, uh, for now, I think Mike Evans is my favorite click
61:17on the board in reddraft leagues. Scott Yeah, I mean I I I totally agree and I've been saying don't sleep on the old
61:26ass wide receivers because last year Devonte Adams led the league in average separation score. Mike Evans has ranked top three three years in a row and uh
61:37yeah, this is the quote I I I had from Ryan Heath. Um I asked him about Mike Evans a couple weeks ago and I thought
61:44he gave me the the quote of the off seasonason. is like whatever happens with Evans this year, it's going to feel
61:48incredibly obvious in hindsight. Either he scores a zillion touchdowns for Kyle Shanahan or [snorts] his hamstring falls off the bone like
61:57Texas barbecue because he's 33 years old practicing next to a haunted 5G Chernobyl super EMF electrical substation. And by the way, the
62:06substation already in mid-season form, Ricky Pil, Christian Kirk, it's insane.
62:12Um, but yeah, I mean like is this not the best wide receiver Kyle Shanahan has had since Julio Jones had 2,000
62:20receiving yards? Like that that was one of the old cheat codes was the Kyle Shanahan wide receiver one. And this this offense has been great despite Debo
62:30can't stay healthy and is fat. Ricky Piol can't stay healthy. Brandon Iayuk is a head case. Um, Brock Perie is dealing with injuries. George KD is
62:39dealing with and it's just like if you could just get a healthy Mike Evans like he's what he's going to score 20
62:46touchdowns this year and have 1500 yards.
62:49>> The the Ryan Heath quote that you had there and I think you might have tweeted this at me sometime recently or like I
62:55saw it I don't know but it's 100% accurate. It's what I've been saying too, like here either Mike Evans stays healthy for, we'll even call it 14 games
63:03and scores, you know, double digit touchdowns or he plays five games and, you know, his hamstrings a mess or whatever. And yeah, it's like that's it.
63:09That's the range of outcomes. So, how do you want to rank that? How do you want to go about it? Because I think the key
63:14variable with with Evans, my only well, my two push backs to what you just said, Scott, is one, if your Texas barbecue's
63:21falling off the bone that hard, like you overcooked it. You I Ryan's got to Ryan's got to uh change the analogy to
63:27like a pork shank or something where you truly [laughter] do want that thing to like fall off the bone.
63:32>> But you also live in Austin, so I'll I'll let you you you be the judge of that, Scott. The other thing I would say
63:37too is that like Brandon Iayuk was probably the best receiver that Kyle Shanahan has had in recent memory in the 2023 season when he truly performed like
63:46an elite receiver.
63:47>> Yeah.
63:48>> But if you look at the routes that Brandon Aayuka was running that season, like the route tree matches so well with
63:54what Evans does well, these like Yeah.
63:57Obviously the go routes and stuff like that but >> it's a lot of the inbreakers. And I think Mike is one of the most underrated
64:04technicians in the NFL because people still still even to this day think of him as just like a bigbodied like freak show, which he is. That's why
64:12he's the guy that I like betting. And again, he hasn't had like a significant drop off from like a reception perception standpoint whatsoever. And I
64:19think he's the perfect blend of what you want in a aging declining receiver. you either you want them to kind of either
64:26be like a true elite technician like a digs or a Keenan Allen or you want them to be a freak show athlete and Mike
64:33Evans just happens to be both of those things. So [laughter] I I yeah I mean listen I I don't know how to rank Evans to to account for the
64:42the variance there but man just an incredible player uh who fits perfectly in this role that he's got right now.
64:49>> I I think I have a really interesting staff for you Matt that I' I'd like to hear your opinion on. So yeah, age 32,
64:55Mike Evans second best in ass last year.
64:58Age 33, Devonte Adams led the league in ass. Uh so you know, old guys still got it. But looking back throughout fantasy
65:09points data history, so since 2021, which was 5 years ago, you look at the worst yards after the catch per reception seasons, Mike Evans was dead
65:18last. Devonte Adams was third worst over a five-year sample. And so I think what this is saying is like you are seeing
65:25real signs of decline. It's like these guys are and I know usage plays a role here. Um but they're they're not giving
65:32you a lot after the catch but the separation skills are still there. Maybe you know Zack Z is maybe another good
65:38example of that where like that's like a a heavyweight boxer powers the last thing to go. um for you know a
65:46heavyweight wide receiver you know maybe it's separation abilities which are more you know uh football IQ and nuance and you know route running rather than like
65:57raw athleticism. Uh do you kind of see it that way?
66:02>> I think that he's like you mentioned this rolewise is a big part of this. you know, >> yeah, >> if you're a downfield ex receiver,
66:11you're not getting a lot of the same opportunities to have yards after the catch because of where your catches occur. Um, I don't think Mike Evans has
66:19really ever been a yards after catch option because of because of that for the most part. But I do think your
66:23theory on um like the last thing to go is pro because a lot of a lot of separation, a lot of getting open is
66:30less physical and more like technique and detail, especially if you're someone that like I mentioned with Mike Evans and Dvonte Adams is a great example of
66:37this. And frankly, DeAndre Hopkins, who was also on the list, is another player that really became like a really strong technician throughout the course of
66:44their career. There's no way that like that doesn't go with age. I'm sure like I'm sure, you know, when when Devonte
66:52Adams is 50 years old, he'll still be able to like conceptually put together, you know, a release package is just going to be 50 years. He's 50 years old,
67:01you know, at that point. So, I do think that makes sense in terms of the last thing to go because yeah, your athletic
67:05ability and truly something to like do after the catch. There's mental parts of that, but it's also quite physical as well.
67:11>> Keenan Allen, I think another good example of that last year out targeting Vlad Makoni in a per route basis at age
67:18what 35.
67:20>> He's probably going to do it to Josh Downs this year, too. So, I hate to put that hate to put that in. The
67:25worst part is the Keenan Allen thing is so funny because he truly is one of my another one of my favorite receivers.
67:30you know, obviously a reception perception guy, but yeah, he's kind of to go back to mogging. He like mogged rookie year Roma Dunay. He mogged Lad
67:37Mcconi last year, and if he does it three years in a row to guys I really like in Josh Towns, I'm gonna it's going
67:43to be tough going to be tough for me to forgive that. All right, let's move on.
67:47George Pickkins is the next guy we want to talk about. And especially from a Pickins verse Lamb angle, Matt, I've kind of contended that I think Lamb is
67:55one of the worst picks you can make in the first round of fantasy drafts. And it's not that I it's not that I have
68:00anything against Lamb. I just think Pickkins is that freaking good.
68:03>> And when they were on the field together last year, Pickkins outshined him like quite dramatically actually, especially in fantasy points production. So,
68:10>> um yeah, but give give me your take on Pickkins and then obviously your take on Lamb as well.
68:15>> Yeah, I hadn't really thought about Lamb just because I'm so excited about this Cowboys offense. I think they could be
68:20like a top clear top five unit and the answer to who which Cowboys do you want this year is just yes. like you want all
68:27of them even though they're all pretty expensive. Like I even think Ryan Feno is a baller. Um just not going to get a
68:32lot of targets obviously with everybody healthy, but if those guys get hurt, he would jump into a pretty interesting role. But I do think the the pro the
68:40like some maybe some of the stuff that where Lamb gets a little outtargeted by Pickkins at times last year. One, it is
68:45because yeah, Pickins is awesome. He's he's an incredible player that has gone from a guy that I think clearly did and
68:50I'd be curious your thoughts on this Brett. Like when he was a rookie, I thought he was just wasn't a great
68:55separator and wasn't a really detailed technician. But by year three, and this is, you know, your your opinion on players allowed to change when when they
69:03change. Uh by year three, >> he is a guy that I thought was had really taken a step forward, especially against like press man coverage. His
69:10route running was better, his separation skills were better by that final year in Pittsburgh to the point that the eruption last year in Dallas was was the
69:17most predictable thing of all time. He was the guy that like I said with Wadd last year was the most mispriced player
69:22in fantasy. I wanted him on all my teams and he did it last year like you we were just showing the stat on the screen
69:27where he was yeah like a sub 8% slot rate but averaged 84 yards per game. You look at the other guys that are lined up
69:34in the slot at that low of a rate. It's all just like guys who aren't involved in the offense whatsoever. So, it was
69:40outlier hero level stuff that Pickkins did last year and I would totally bet on him doing it again essentially. There's really no reason why he wouldn't. I do
69:50think Lamb was pretty messed up from that high ankle sprain even when he got back. Like I talked to him after the
69:56season and he basically thought he's like I thought that injury was going to ruin my entire season. Um and you know,
70:01so I I think that that might be why he was a little limited target-wise, but I it's a fair point. Like I mean listen,
70:07if Pickkins is going to be that good, it might take away a little bit of Lamb as well.
70:12>> Scott, where you at on this?
70:13>> Yeah, when you said this on one of our last shows, you're like, I think Pickkins is better than L. And so I I
70:19like Pickkins way more for fantasy.
70:21That's what you were telling me. I said, well, pump the brakes a little bit. I will say City Lamb is a little bit more
70:28of the fantasy friendly archetype, the the more of the PPR cheat code. So, it's it's possible that that's true, but still CD Lamb is worth the first round
70:37pick, but I was digging into it. And so, right now, Matt, uh CD Lamb is being drafted as the ADP wide receiver five.
70:46He only has one season he's finished top seven in fantasy points per game. That what kind of blew my mind, and I I've
70:52said this on multiple shows, and people get angry when you say that, but like I really think 2023 is doing a lot of the
70:58heavy lifting with this ADP. Uh, and then you have George Pickkins who uh top three in slot ass last year over the
71:07last two years. Uh, you have the head coach saying they want him more in the slot which was really a major benefit to
71:14to CD Lamb. Now they're talking about scheming him open more. And here's what I thought was, you know, another credit.
71:20Yeah. On the screen right now, credit to to Brett for saying this is like, yeah, oh my god, George Pickins is
71:27unbelievable.
71:28Compare his him to Jamar Chase, the current wide receiver, won by ADP, and they're basically tied in everything.
71:37George Pickins is really good, and he's been really good for a long time. Yeah, he was he was great with the the
71:43Cowboys, but within this sample or freaking Arthur Smith seasons, right?
71:49So, uh yeah, clearly the guy is good.
71:52Not on this stat is also hero catches.
71:55Uh, dude makes unbelievable highlight reel catches at a rate like no other wide receiver comes close to. He's good after the catch. He's a great separator.
72:04Uh, so I, this is kind of a spicy take, but I I I that that Brett's had that CD Lamb is an awful round one pick and
72:12Pickins is a great round two, round three pick, but uh, I I I can definitely see that being the case.
72:19>> Yeah, I think it's interesting. I mean, I my first thought was, yeah, he does have that more fantasy friendly role.
72:25And I I kind of don't buy that they're going to move Pickkins around because they kind of said it last year at times
72:29and then again, he played like a historically low slot slot rate. Um, but the one thing I would say too, CD Lamb
72:36also played the lowest percentage of his snaps in the slot last year, uh, like 31 or 33, something like that percent,
72:43which was pretty low based on previous years. So, we'll see. Maybe all those guys move around more. I also think um
72:49you know not having like having Florenoi establishes the three I think does make a difference for both of these guys because he can actually play real deal
72:57receiver and as opposed to you know their third receiver to open last year was like Kavonte Turpin or like Jaylen Tolbert or something. So I I think that
73:05that actually does matter for both these guys maybe actually getting more slot reps. But yeah, look I >> I have CD Lamb and George Pickkins in
73:13the same tier. So ultimately, like from a fantasy standpoint, so ultimately if one of those guys outscores the other, that would be completely predictable.
73:20>> Another thing with Lamb that no one really talks about is that 2023 season, that magical season was Mike McCarthy was the play caller.
73:27>> Mike McCarthy kind of invented this power slot role. Go back to 2004 when he was with the Saints. He kind of started
73:33moving Joe Horn to the slot. Joe Horn has a career year. He goes with the 49ers the next year. for Brandon Lloyd
73:39as a breakout season as a guy who who primarily was an outside receiver starts playing in the slot. He goes to Green
73:44Bay, invents Randle Cobb, goes to Dallas, invents CD Lamb. CD Lamb doesn't have that anymore. Brian Shottenheimer is a different beast. He's a little bit
73:52more old school, a little more sevenstep. I think Pickins might just be better for that offense also.
73:58All right, let's round the show out. We got one more guy to talk about. Michael Wilson, Arizona Cardinals. Not even sure
74:05what we can call him. I don't know if he's an X. I don't know if he's a Z. He played some X in Marvin Harrison's
74:10absence last year and was dominant doing it better than Marvin Harrison Jr.
74:13himself.
74:14>> Uh, but I do want to take the angle of let's go Michael Wilson versus Marvin Harrison Jr. because the pedigrees
74:19couldn't be more different. Harrison Jr.
74:21top 10 pick. Michael Wilson a third round pick. But Wilson has just been more productive when given the opportunity. Matt, where are you at on
74:29Wilson?
74:30>> Oh god. Um, I was just saying on my show yesterday that I actually need to stop thinking about and talking about the
74:372026 Cardinals because my algorithm on Twitter now like knows I'm obsessed with these two receivers. So, when they're not when it's not feeding me like Cyrus
74:46Allen propaganda, it's feeding me uh like pure uncut, you know, just Marvin Harrison Jr. and Michael Wilson just I don't know, copium from like Arizona
74:57Beatr writers. And I I think the one thing to talk about with both these guys, cuz this is another one where I
75:02don't want to like one and hate the other, cuz I actually really like both players. I thought Michael Wilson was really underutilized in Arizona prior to
75:09Marvin Harrison Jr. Uh even like when the funny thing is in Michael Wilson's write up after his rookie year in reception perception, the very last
75:17paragraph is the fact that Michael Wilson showed that he can be a really strong Z receiver but also and I'm paraphrasing myself here, which is
75:25always a good thing to do. The fact that he showed he could be like a quality Z receiver, but but play X receiver means
75:31that they won't just have to run out, you know, the prize rookie at X receiver every single snap. That there could be
75:36some versatility in their alignment. And then the coaching staff in Arizona proceeded to do the exact opposite of that. It was basically like Marv's
75:43always the X, Mike's always the Z. And that just made no sense to me because we were showing Michael Wilson's uh
75:50reception perception comps on the screen a bit ago. They're all like classic X type profiles. Like T. Higgins, Brian Thomas Jr.'s rookie season, Allen
75:58Robinson early career, like Terry McLuren, freaking AJ Green. Like these are the type of players from a role and effectiveness perspective. I think he
76:04can have like some level of output like that. But it does need to like the roles need to be mixed up a little because I
76:11think Harrison also is a like really quality technician. He's not the like freak athlete that you might think obviously as the fourth overall pick.
76:20I'm generally a Marv apologist. I think he wins over the field well. I think he just was never a fit with Kyler Murray.
76:26Kyler Murray was never fit for the old offense. But with these two guys this year, I just think Lafleur coming over
76:32here from LA being able to the the key is that nobody will be in one position every single time. like there's going to
76:37be so much motion here. Uh there's going to be a lot of like condensed formations. It's just going to look very
76:42different than the old offense. So, I have no idea what the quarterback play looks like. I think the team probably is
76:47going to be bad, but I am admittedly very Cardinals curious, mostly just because I like both of these two receivers.
76:54>> So, this is this is a topic that Ryan Heath and I have spent a lot of time debating this off season. And Ryan
77:01Heath's argument, which is a very good argument, I just don't I just happen to to not side with it, is is that if the
77:11situation was reversed, if Michael Wilson suffered that injury and went down, Marvin Harrison Jr. would have went nuclear and we'd be drafting him in
77:19round three. Um because, you know, it was Michael Wilson benefiting not just from the lesser target competition, from the injury to Marvin Harrison Jr., But
77:29it was also during the stretch they played a ton of heavy personnel. Uh which is even, you know, a better setup
77:35for wide receivers to get the ball and score fantasy points and and so it was really just like, you know, bad luck.
77:43And so now we're getting this extreme discount on Marvin Marvin Harrison Jr. I I think that's like a very persuasive argument, but it's not the one I side
77:51with. What I side with is Martin Harrison Jr. has two 100yard games in his career. Michael Wilson
78:00turned into Jerry freaking Rice without him last year. [clears throat] Over the last 11 weeks of the 2025 season, Michael Wilson ranked third in yards per
78:10game. He was behind only Puka, Nakua, JSN. He goes in round nine. Everyone else goes in round one. What are you
78:17hearing this off season? You're hearing, hey, you know, like uh it's not that I struggled with Kyler. It's It's really just, hey, the offense runs through the
78:25X >> and Marv was in the X and then he goes down. Then he put me in the X and I I I
78:31do well in it. And it's like, yeah, yeah, you see that Marv had a great target share. He just didn't put up any
78:37fantasy points. And then you put Michael Wilson and he goes absolutely nuclear, transforms into Jerry Rice, and you're hearing now it's like, oh, I'm more the
78:47puka role, which is the more valuable role. and it's great for his skill set and it leads to PPRs and Yak and to me
78:55it's just like and he's by the way going rounds behind Marvin Harrison Jr. and yeah again it's just I've always had
79:03that stuck in the back of my h my mind.
79:05It's like if his name was Marvin Jefferson would would he have been a top five pick? Would he is is this real? And so
79:14it's like yeah it's like was he a nepotism draft pick to some degree? I don't know, but it's a new regime now
79:20and I think they're going to lean more towards a meritocracy. And so far, we've seen a lot more merit. Marvin Harrison
79:27Jr. two 100yard games in his career. He has two good games in his career. And Michael Wilson had in the second half
79:35last year, what two or three times as many good games. So, uh, again, I I get Ryan's argument. I think it's
79:42persuasive, but it's just not the way I lean. I I lean towards Michael Wilson going rounds later as the better value.
79:48What do you What do you think, Brett?
79:50>> Well, it's really tough because there there's a lot of moving parts here. It's it requires a multivaried analysis, but I think the glow up for Wilson from the
79:58time he stepped into that X roll. So, pretty much week 10, he started playing 50% or more of his snaps at the X spot,
80:06his yards per route run jumped to third in the NFL. His separation score jumped to sixth in the NFL. like a truly
80:13unbelievable glow up. He was more productive in that role than Marvin Harrison Jr. was. That's undeniable fact. But the problem is is they did it
80:21with different quarterbacks. It's like really hard to extrapolate what's the truth there >> cuz we know Kyler Murray >> struggles in a he struggles to throw the
80:30ball in the the middle of the field. He struggles to attack the intermediate mid of the field. And in the two high era we
80:36live in, that's those dig routes, those post routes. That's where you're going to live for an explosive offense and that's where Michael Wilson just
80:43dominated. So like I think he had a huge benefit of getting to play with Jacobe Brassette in a bunch of shootouts where
80:49the defense was letting up 40 points a game. And so it's like I don't know what's real and what's not. This is a
80:56really hard one for me. I want to bet on the talent of Marvin Harrison Jr.
81:00because you know this is a guy I thought was the best player in his draft class.
81:03Like incredible talent. And so, [sighs] but but you can't deny the the production splits. This is this is truly one of the hardest um you know,
81:12juxapositions for me. I I really don't know what to make of the the difference in info here.
81:17>> Yeah, it I agree with you. It is really hard and I don't know that I'll be surprised one way or the one way or another like
81:25how this ultimately plays out. You know, I think that that's that's kind of because I and again this comes back to
81:30the fact that I like both players. Like I do think that Michael Wilson is good.
81:34Like I don't think Michael Wilson was some, you know, nonsense fluke or something like that. But yeah, your point about the just pass volume truly
81:44can't be uh understated here. Like it was ultimately a complete scam what they did in the back half of the year with
81:51with Mike and that's not to take away from Michael Wilson, but it was a fantasy football scam. They dropped back 457 times did the Arizona Cardinals last
81:58year from week nine on. That was over 50 more times. uh than the next place team which was Detroit at uh 403. So I mean
82:06it was just it was a complete scam in that regard. That's a big re honestly like Trey McBride was number one in
82:11routes run last year. Michael Wilson was second. I do think that if we reversed the simulations and Marvin Harrison Jr.
82:18was not just without Michael Wilson but also with Jacobe Brassette. I think that would be a big deal because Kyler is
82:25like he's got he's not my and I I had to talk uh Nate Ty out of this because he was like Cardinals curious under the old
82:33staff and now I've kind of taken under the role of being Cardinals curious in this staff. I pretty much told him like
82:37week two of last season like buddy let it go with the Cardinals. Like all three of these guys just need to get away from
82:42each other. Like Marv, Kyler, and Drew Petting just they're all fine in their own right. They just don't fit each other. they all have to get away from
82:50each other and like then we can judge them on the merits after the fact and I think I finally broke him from the
82:55Cardinals addiction.
82:57>> He still was on the defense, but you know that's fine. Nate and I can litigate that later. But regardless, um
83:02I think that now that these three guys are away from each other, I would like to kind of give them all a little bit of
83:07a blank slate even though we know the pluses and minuses of each because yeah, I'm I'm with you Brett that like I
83:12thought Marvin Harrison Jr. was like one of the best prospects I've ever seen at at receiver. I don't think it was
83:17namebased. Um, and I think that he's been I think you can hold two thoughts in your head about Marvin Harrison Jr.
83:22in that he has been disappointing relative to expectations and even if the expectations were really lofty, I think he's been disappointing, but he's also
83:30not been nearly as bad as like the Twitter doomscape wants to paint uh as well. I think you can hold two thoughts
83:35in your head on that.
83:36>> That's been my argument most of the time. Uh, Matt, this has been awesome.
83:40We kept you a little longer than we said we would. I really appreciate your time here. Uh, hopefully the the viewers
83:46enjoyed it as well. Thank you so much for doing this. Tell the people where they can find your work.
83:50>> No, this has been great. Um, next time we'll definitely uh we'll we'll put the blood feud back uh you know on the air
83:56about reception, perception, and fantasy points. We actually we actually all hate each other, but you know, no, this is great. It [snorts] was super fun. Uh I
84:04really appreciate it. It was great to discuss this with both of you guys. And uh in terms of my work, the Yahoo
84:09Fantasy Forecast goes back to daily uh five days a week uh next week. So that'll be fun. and receptionperception.com.
84:15Uh you can find all of these profiles, the player comparison tool. I'm putting up new profiles every week as we lead up
84:22to week one in addition to everything else that's on the site. So I think if you like this discussion, you will
84:26definitely like reception perception.com.
84:29>> Awesome. And hey, since Ryan Heath caught like a million references on this show, Anatomy of the League winner did just drop today. It's one of the best
84:37articles you can read in the offseason.
84:38If you want to win your fantasy leagues, this is the article to do it. Please go to fantasypoints.com and check out
84:45Anatomy of the League winner by Ryan Heath. That's going to do it for us today everyone. Thank you so much for
84:51tuning in. We are out.

More episodes from Fantasy Points Fantasy Football

6